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Author Topic: Genesis-Mining Review  (Read 115570 times)
ahmed_bodi
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September 03, 2014, 05:31:49 PM
 #1

Genesis Mining Cloud-Hash Review

I've recently started renting some scrypt hashpower from them and with much better service than i've recieved in comparison to companies like cex.io or standard rental sites like betarigs i felt like this needs promoting more

How does it work

At the moment Genesis Mining currently allow user's to buy sha256 hashpower for bitcoin and scrypt hashpower for a wide range of altcoin's. This is used to mine on their own hand picked pool's or solo mined on their own coin daemon's to give back to user's the fee savings. According to a support ticket i sent to genesis mining, They plan on allowing user's to mine sha256 altcoins rather than only bitcoin as they do at the moment. In addition to this they are also planning on cutting the prices of their scrypt contracts to 39 USD MH/s per year. At the moment they dont do X11 hashpower however i've been told its something they intend to do.

Why i like them
1 thing i have found lacking in a number of cloud hashing and rental services is the inability to split hashpower between multiple coins. This is something which genesis-mining allows very easily using their dashboard. At the time of writing this, genesis mining allows people to split their hashpowe between the following coins:
- RDD
- BC
- LTC
- DOGE
- AUR
- FTC
- LOT
- MEC
- NVC
- POT

Additionally unlike gawminer's hashlet's genesis mining actually shows pictures of their miners and is overall a pretty transparent company. They have an about page with info on their company here: https://www.genesis-mining.com/about-us. Staff of the company have also attended various bitcoin conferences. In the following article about Gavin Anderson's comment stating that most cloud hashing are ponzi's genesis mining went as far as to invite Gavin to their facilities to view their vast range of hardware. http://cointelegraph.com/news/112329/gavin-andresens-fractional-reserve-mining-cloud-miners-respond.

Why i use it
As a private pool operator its often neccesary for me to rent enough hashpower to ensure that the pool works properly on any given coin. During high demand period's such as when altcoin's launch its difficult to be able to rent double digit hashpower at a good price. For this reason i am also considering buying one of genesis mining's lifetime mining contracts which i think is active as long as the payout is over the fees paid. Has anyone tried it out before so i can get some opinions before i buy it?

As well as this it also means i dont have to spend time and effort on setting up asic's, cooling and power to ensure that i'm not loosing money when the rigs are offline while genesis mining have a 100% UPTIME GUARANTEE!!. I've read a reddit post by one of the /r/BitcoinMining mod's: http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMining/comments/2enhh4/genesisminingcom_is_a_dishonestly_run_business/  and i seem to disagree with what they're saying. So far from the research i've done they seem to be one of the most reputable companies out there.

FootNote: This is an impartial review as a user of genesis mining. I've used a number of rental sites including miningrigrentals, betarigs and cloud hashing services such as CEX.io and i felt that genesis mining deserved a review

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September 03, 2014, 08:11:51 PM
 #2

Interesting review... Considering if you use a multipool (nicehash or wafflepool), you're going to make roughly 14 cents per Mh a day, that's a $51 a year.  So you might make some money on the 20mh or 100mh packages. The biggest issue is that they don't let you pick the pool, so you have no idea what you would mine and no ability to forecast a return at all.  At the end of the day, you can't really trust any of the cloud mining companies. I always advise people to get the hardware themselves and control what you mine. It's not that difficult to mine bitcoins or altcoins on your own. Your use case for mining as a pool operator and tester makes sense, but you're not the target demographic of what the cloud mining companies are going after. Note that they don't let you pick the pool, so you won't be able to use them to test your pool.  They want uninformed newbies with fat wallets, not experienced folk.

Good review and the links were informative!  Grin
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September 03, 2014, 08:53:40 PM
 #3

The biggest issue is that they don't let you pick the pool, so you have no idea what you would mine and no ability to forecast a return at all.  At the end of the day, you can't really trust any of the cloud mining companies.

How do you mean you cannot trust any cloud mining companies? Whilst I do agree there is alot of stuff out there that is nothing short of a scam or ponzi, I do personally think IMHO that there is a place for cloud mining.  As CTO of FinalHash (although i just created a bitcointalk account today, <-- straight newb i know) i get the gamut of customers. While we do have plenty of folks who want to be more in control of their units, there are also others who simply don't care. Generally I classify customers into 5 groups.

1. The "I love crypto but my wife hates the heat and the noise" customers. Me personally, I fall into this category so all of my stuff is offsite. Better than sleeping on the couch if you ask me.
2. The "I am new and just wanted to play around with the idea of mining for a quick set up" customer.
3. Enthusiast customers who know alot about the crypto space but simply do not have the space or power or low enough electrical costs to warrant getting physical hardware at their locale.
4. Customers who want the hardware shipped, which I think is safe to say cloverme is this type.
5. The fat cats who just say take my money I don't care.

I always advise people to get the hardware themselves and control what you mine. It's not that difficult to mine bitcoins or altcoins on your own.

While i do agree with you here also, I think this is far to broad of a generalization to say just buy hardware due to a number of reasons.

1. So many people are newcomers to crypto and more often than not their first hearing of crypto was of a nepharious nature. AKA BFL or something similar. Folks are always hesitant in new endeavors. That is just human nature. So spending $30-40 just to try something is generally a lower obstacle over all than taking a risk on waiting to see if a machine comes.

2. for some of the reason mentioned above. Most ASICS I dub the divorce makers. Smiley

Your use case for mining as a pool operator and tester makes sense, but you're not the target demographic of what the cloud mining companies are going after. Note that they don't let you pick the pool, so you won't be able to use them to test your pool.  They want uninformed newbies with fat wallets, not experienced folk.

Really if you look at it, their intended market is everyone. I mean every company in the history of ever if asked, "If you had your ideal market who would it be" All of their answers would echo something to the effect of "EVERYONE IN THE WORLD" So, in the general sense it behooves every company to try and accommodate every market share, right?  Genesis Mining is no different. I think they are working on some refactors of the interface from what has been circulating on redding and the like, and also something called Project X. I mean when you really think about it, there is no "target market" for large companies, right?

You seem to be highly educated in the crypto space cloverme and it is important for educated individuals like your self to be scrupulous on such matters as to better inform the larger less informed community at large. I would love to hear your thoughts on my comments here. The more Highly Educated crypto folks that can dig down into things like this, the less likely folks are to run into another BFL scenario so I truly encourage this well though out counterpoint of yours.



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September 03, 2014, 09:33:19 PM
 #4

FinalHash, come post your company's info in my thread.  While I personally do not feel that cloud mining is useful to me and it may potentially harm the network through centralization, I do see a place for it in getting people new to crypto involved with the mining process if nothing other than a learning tool.

My thread was meant to warn new users of the risks of potential ponzis and scams by people pretending to run cloud mining companies (right as lunamine ran off with 2000BTC).  If you have a legitimate company post the details here along with link to your website and proof of incorporation or at least of having mining equipment.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=739510.0

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September 04, 2014, 01:51:29 PM
 #5

Nice review. Genesis-mining is a multi-algo mining company. I would like to know about the profitability level. Are the ensure ROI?

e-reputation (http://"http://www.laudans.com/"Wink
ahmed_bodi
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September 04, 2014, 01:54:02 PM
 #6

i think they have a new project dubbed project x which ensures ROI.

http://www.reddit.com/r/litecoinmining/comments/2fddnz/project_x_from_genesis_mining/

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September 04, 2014, 02:10:21 PM
 #7

No chance of me making a ROI with these guys as things stand unfortunately.

I took my 1 year contract out on the 10th of June for 0.433 Btc for 2 Mhz (approximately $277.12).

So far, earnings in just under 3 months have come to $66. The rate of earnings is decreasing steadily however, with approximately only $11 earnt over the past 27 days!

I think if BTC price gets back above $720 dollars this should make a ROI, but if the price continues to stay low there is zero chance of making a ROI.

If however you do feel like experimenting with the service then please click my affiliate link, as if your confident on an increase in Btc price this should make you some profit.

www.genesis-mining.com affiliate code: H8Mnq1
FinalHash
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September 04, 2014, 02:13:38 PM
 #8

Yeah when the price dips, and you bought in high that is alwasy the risk no matter what. So, that is not really a fair evaluation IMHO.
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September 04, 2014, 02:20:02 PM
 #9

Not really sure how you can say that though,

As currently I am on target to get a maximum of $161.81 total income from this contract (rate of return has been $0.35 per day this week).

Even if I brought in at todays price I would still be making a loss of $43.88 during the years contract.

Like I said before, if there is a large rise in the Btc price and the price stays high then there may be a chance of getting the money back assuming that the earnings proportion stays constant (however with more script asics launching between now and Christmas this is probably wishfull thinking!!).

www.genesis-mining.com affiliate code: H8Mnq1
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September 04, 2014, 03:34:15 PM
 #10

I understand people are afraid of cloud mining after what happened with Lunamine. That's why some companies are now offering credit card payments, which makes the whole investment much safer.


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September 04, 2014, 03:37:19 PM
 #11

Thanks for the review I have been looking for something like genesis for a time.How come I didn't stumbled upon it till now.Sharing the cloud mining hashpower that's what I 've been searching
Thanks
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September 04, 2014, 03:49:20 PM
 #12

Not really sure how you can say that though,

As currently I am on target to get a maximum of $161.81 total income from this contract (rate of return has been $0.35 per day this week).

Even if I brought in at todays price I would still be making a loss of $43.88 during the years contract.

Like I said before, if there is a large rise in the Btc price and the price stays high then there may be a chance of getting the money back assuming that the earnings proportion stays constant (however with more script asics launching between now and Christmas this is probably wishfull thinking!!).

Well you cant really just say i lost Dollars. in mining you have to correlate to the BTC you put in because that is what you are getting in return. but since the price goes up and down, and then you try to correlate to dollars it is not truly apples to apples you know?

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September 04, 2014, 03:55:15 PM
 #13

Genesis looks interesting but buying into a 1-year contract is a turn off. I'd rather pay $30 and have 10Ghs and the ability to have whatever is mined from them until I decide to resell them to someone else. I cant get behind a contract that loses you money if you do simple math.

www.dalzellphoto.com <-- Concert and wedding work
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September 04, 2014, 04:54:35 PM
 #14

Jesus.......I was comparing the cost/income in dollar terms as due to the cost of these packages it will be quite rare that people are lucky enough to pay for cloud mining packages purely out of the bitcoins they have generated.

Anyway, for the sake of comparison I spent an hour of my life adding up my earnings so far.

Results are as follows (in bitcoin as this is what finalhash appreciates!):


Earnings over first 85 days of contract:                                                    0.13658912 Btc

Average earnings per dayover past 20 day period:                                    0.000759809 Btc

Projected earnings over final 280 days assuming NO increase in difficulty:  0.21274638 Btc

Therefore total income projected for my annual contract is:                       0.3493355 Btc


The contract cost me 0.433 Btc, so projected loss in Bitcoin of 0.0836645 Btc!!!

Obviously, as I said before the likelihood of script difficulty increasing significantly for the rest of the year is high due to increasing ASIC manufacturers jumping onboard, so these results will probably be worse than expected unless there are significant gains in prices of alt coins to compensate.

Therefore, even without this risk I couldn't really recommend them unfortunately - although the website GUI is easy to use.

www.genesis-mining.com affiliate code: H8Mnq1
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September 04, 2014, 06:42:17 PM
 #15

Great Information there,thanks Smiley

Spend GCN at World of electronics Transfer files at www.gfile.us 10k free per transfer Smiley
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September 04, 2014, 06:46:57 PM
 #16

Jesus.......I was comparing the cost/income in dollar terms as due to the cost of these packages it will be quite rare that people are lucky enough to pay for cloud mining packages purely out of the bitcoins they have generated.

Anyway, for the sake of comparison I spent an hour of my life adding up my earnings so far.

Results are as follows (in bitcoin as this is what finalhash appreciates!):


Earnings over first 85 days of contract:                                                    0.13658912 Btc

Average earnings per dayover past 20 day period:                                    0.000759809 Btc

Projected earnings over final 280 days assuming NO increase in difficulty:  0.21274638 Btc

Therefore total income projected for my annual contract is:                       0.3493355 Btc


The contract cost me 0.433 Btc, so projected loss in Bitcoin of 0.0836645 Btc!!!

Obviously, as I said before the likelihood of script difficulty increasing significantly for the rest of the year is high due to increasing ASIC manufacturers jumping onboard, so these results will probably be worse than expected unless there are significant gains in prices of alt coins to compensate.

Therefore, even without this risk I couldn't really recommend them unfortunately - although the website GUI is easy to use.

They either A) need to lower their costs or B) cut the time limit out on the contracts and allow people to resell their shares/buy shares from other users. But that probably wont happen because that would cut into their overhead.

www.dalzellphoto.com <-- Concert and wedding work
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September 04, 2014, 06:54:51 PM
 #17

Genisis-mining lets you share your mining power is what I like the most about it.A honest review

Smiley
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September 04, 2014, 07:11:30 PM
 #18

now run those same numbers if you had bought similar hardware.
cloverme
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September 05, 2014, 12:56:50 AM
 #19

How do you mean you cannot trust any cloud mining companies? Whilst I do agree there is alot of stuff out there that is nothing short of a scam or ponzi, I do personally think IMHO that there is a place for cloud mining.  As CTO of FinalHash (although i just created a bitcointalk account today, <-- straight newb i know) i get the gamut of customers. While we do have plenty of folks who want to be more in control of their units, there are also others who simply don't care. Generally I classify customers into 5 groups.

I don't really trust the cloud mining companies because of the high scam/ponzi rate, the low or no ROI, and the general approach of selling mining as a service. Unless the person has control over the miner and pool, it's not mining (in my opinion), your are investing in their infrastructure for a return. A lot of people who learn about bitcoin and then the fact you get get some as a reward for contributing to the network, is a strong attraction. An uninformed investor and his money are soon parted. With Bitcoin, the learning curve is a bit steep and mining just a little steeper, so newbies to cryptocurrency are ripe for the plucking and some companies take advantage of that through slick marketing and a failure to disclose real returns or lack thereof.  How many cloud mining companies put a ROI calculator next to the buy button?  Right now, there's nothing to force anyone to present a prospectus to a potential investment in cloud mining, so the ethics and responsibility to do so falls on the owner. 

You seem to be highly educated in the crypto space cloverme and it is important for educated individuals like your self to be scrupulous on such matters as to better inform the larger less informed community at large. I would love to hear your thoughts on my comments here. The more Highly Educated crypto folks that can dig down into things like this, the less likely folks are to run into another BFL scenario so I truly encourage this well though out counterpoint of yours.

Thanks, I've been mining for a few years in all different cryptos and have been lucky to get involved with a great community here. I've been in IT for 20 years and worked for NASA at one point, so I tend to leverage my background and experience where I can. My investments in crypto have been profitable and I like to pass that along to others here when and where I can. I've only fallen victim to one scam for 2BTC about a year ago and it was because I didn't do enough due diligence, after that I managed to escape all the others so far including Mt. Gox. So, I try to use any experience I have to educate people on either mining or bitcoin in general.

Overall, good luck with your business venture.
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September 05, 2014, 11:30:39 AM
 #20

No chance of me making a ROI with these guys as things stand unfortunately.

I took my 1 year contract out on the 10th of June for 0.433 Btc for 2 Mhz (approximately $277.12).

So far, earnings in just under 3 months have come to $66. The rate of earnings is decreasing steadily however, with approximately only $11 earnt over the past 27 days!

I think if BTC price gets back above $720 dollars this should make a ROI, but if the price continues to stay low there is zero chance of making a ROI.

If however you do feel like experimenting with the service then please click my affiliate link, as if your confident on an increase in Btc price this should make you some profit.
I was thinking about starting with them. Now I think it would be better to wait and let's see what is going to happen with BTC. Thanks a lot for your helpful information.

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