Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[Marvell1]

Still no reply from Minersource about my promised refund it's now almost a year ago since I pre-ordered and paid for 2 Blackarrow X-1 miners, worst. decision. ever. 

They only have to send me 1 BTC (less then 50% of what I paid) which is done in less then a minute, instead they decide to simply keep my money going against all consumer protection laws. I don't know what to do anymore..

Might as well write it off as a loss , if you are in the US you can deduct it from your taxes..

[notbatman]

http://ecointalk.net/topic/392-black-arrow-weekly-production-update/page-520

blackarrow #10385
Posted Today, 10:39 AM

In the last few days there have been increasing reports of X3 units that have failed during hashing.
We have now located this issue: It has been introduced by a part that we have used in our latest shipped batch (shipped between 20 Oct to 13 Nov). All miners affected by this problem have a barcode sticker (picture will be posted here:http://www.blackarro...y_hashboard.jpg. We are currently sending individual emails to all customers that we believe that are affected. If you have not received an email but are concerned that your miner is affected, please open it and check if your hashboard has such sticker. If your miner is affected, please stop using it immediately. If you do not stop using your miner there is a very high possibility that one or more hashboards will burn. We are now testing new hashboards in which we believe that we have solved the problem. We will send new hashboards to all customers as soon as tests are conclusive. Alternatively we can make arrangements to host your miner in our partner's datacenter in China that charges an all-inclusive fee.
We are deeply sorry for the inconvenience.
Technical details: On the latest batch of miners we started to use a different mosfet because of higher efficiency and better sourcing availability. However, to achieve this efficiency this mosfet lacks a diode that protects it from short circuiting the 12V with GND in case there's a wrong message received from the controller. A wrong message can only be caused by the noise in the circuit or by a faulty controller. We have encountered this issue back in May but we have been working with Vishay (the manufacturer) to fix it. Initially, when we found the issue, we wanted to return the chips but Vishay declined to take them back claiming that they are considered safe to be used in consumer electronics and Sony is using them in PS4. Upon applying the changes in our design based on their advice and after testing more than 20 miners we believed that the problem has been solved and started manufacturing miners with these chips. However, it turns out that the problem is still there and in some unknown cases it happens and the mosfet burns, causing a short circuit which heats up the board and sometimes melts the PCIE connector.

So you're saying a bug in your shitty software causes your shitty hardware design to burst into flames. Why not send customers the same solution you use in your mining farm? You know the one where all the used Bitfury boards (minus PSU) you have for sale in-hand on your website come from. Let me guess you're still too busy mining with the original batch of customer X3 hashboards you produced in May?

[Syke]

http://ecointalk.net/topic/392-black-arrow-weekly-production-update/page-520

blackarrow #10385
Posted Today, 10:39 AM

In the last few days there have been increasing reports of X3 units that have failed during hashing.
We have now located this issue: It has been introduced by a part that we have used in our latest shipped batch (shipped between 20 Oct to 13 Nov). All miners affected by this problem have a barcode sticker (picture will be posted here:http://www.blackarro...y_hashboard.jpg. We are currently sending individual emails to all customers that we believe that are affected. If you have not received an email but are concerned that your miner is affected, please open it and check if your hashboard has such sticker. If your miner is affected, please stop using it immediately. If you do not stop using your miner there is a very high possibility that one or more hashboards will burn. We are now testing new hashboards in which we believe that we have solved the problem. We will send new hashboards to all customers as soon as tests are conclusive. Alternatively we can make arrangements to host your miner in our partner's datacenter in China that charges an all-inclusive fee.
We are deeply sorry for the inconvenience.
Technical details: On the latest batch of miners we started to use a different mosfet because of higher efficiency and better sourcing availability. However, to achieve this efficiency this mosfet lacks a diode that protects it from short circuiting the 12V with GND in case there's a wrong message received from the controller. A wrong message can only be caused by the noise in the circuit or by a faulty controller. We have encountered this issue back in May but we have been working with Vishay (the manufacturer) to fix it. Initially, when we found the issue, we wanted to return the chips but Vishay declined to take them back claiming that they are considered safe to be used in consumer electronics and Sony is using them in PS4. Upon applying the changes in our design based on their advice and after testing more than 20 miners we believed that the problem has been solved and started manufacturing miners with these chips. However, it turns out that the problem is still there and in some unknown cases it happens and the mosfet burns, causing a short circuit which heats up the board and sometimes melts the PCIE connector.

So you're saying a bug in your shitty software causes your shitty hardware design to burst into flames. Why not send customers the same solution you use in your mining farm? You know the one where all the used Bitfury boards (minus PSU) you have for sale in-hand on your website come from. Let me guess you're still too busy mining with the original batch of customer X3 hashboards you produced in May?

Wow, I didn't think anyone would surpass BFL's incompetence. Congrats BA, you've finally bested BFL!

[notbatman]

Prospero X-10

Over 30,000 BTU/h produced by the most obsolete Bitcoin ASIC on the market to date. It also features the brightest 35" OLED viewing screen available producing flames so realistic you'll want to call the fire department.



PRE-ORDER TODAY!

[Dallas5]

Still no reply from Minersource about my promised refund it's now almost a year ago since I pre-ordered and paid for 2 Blackarrow X-1 miners, worst. decision. ever. 

They only have to send me 1 BTC (less then 50% of what I paid) which is done in less then a minute, instead they decide to simply keep my money going against all consumer protection laws. I don't know what to do anymore..

Might as well write it off as a loss , if you are in the US you can deduct it from your taxes..

I live in Europe, only hope now is if someone at Minersource decides to do the right thing or one of the many government agencies I contacted jumps in and takes things over just like what happened to Butterfly Labs..

[Dallas5]

I might send this story to the Consumerist.

[Pentax]

http://ecointalk.net/topic/392-black-arrow-weekly-production-update/page-520

blackarrow #10385
Posted Today, 10:39 AM

In the last few days there have been increasing reports of X3 units that have failed during hashing.
We have now located this issue: It has been introduced by a part that we have used in our latest shipped batch (shipped between 20 Oct to 13 Nov). All miners affected by this problem have a barcode sticker (picture will be posted here:http://www.blackarro...y_hashboard.jpg. We are currently sending individual emails to all customers that we believe that are affected. If you have not received an email but are concerned that your miner is affected, please open it and check if your hashboard has such sticker. If your miner is affected, please stop using it immediately. If you do not stop using your miner there is a very high possibility that one or more hashboards will burn. We are now testing new hashboards in which we believe that we have solved the problem. We will send new hashboards to all customers as soon as tests are conclusive. Alternatively we can make arrangements to host your miner in our partner's datacenter in China that charges an all-inclusive fee.
We are deeply sorry for the inconvenience.
Technical details: On the latest batch of miners we started to use a different mosfet because of higher efficiency and better sourcing availability. However, to achieve this efficiency this mosfet lacks a diode that protects it from short circuiting the 12V with GND in case there's a wrong message received from the controller. A wrong message can only be caused by the noise in the circuit or by a faulty controller. We have encountered this issue back in May but we have been working with Vishay (the manufacturer) to fix it. Initially, when we found the issue, we wanted to return the chips but Vishay declined to take them back claiming that they are considered safe to be used in consumer electronics and Sony is using them in PS4. Upon applying the changes in our design based on their advice and after testing more than 20 miners we believed that the problem has been solved and started manufacturing miners with these chips. However, it turns out that the problem is still there and in some unknown cases it happens and the mosfet burns, causing a short circuit which heats up the board and sometimes melts the PCIE connector.

So you're saying a bug in your shitty software causes your shitty hardware design to burst into flames. Why not send customers the same solution you use in your mining farm? You know the one where all the used Bitfury boards (minus PSU) you have for sale in-hand on your website come from. Let me guess you're still too busy mining with the original batch of customer X3 hashboards you produced in May?

yep.

first there was a data center, then there wasn't, then there was and rent-a-minion was ready to roll.  again.   

now there's a partner.  well, that's new. 

who is this "Partner".  wouldn't happen to be XBTec, now would it?  You know, the same folks that bought the customer database.  or stole it.  or something that neither of them seems inclined to talk about all that much and neither is doing a damn thing about while one of them is acting in an easily provable illegal fashion.

meanwhile leaked chats quote Josh Zipken of AMT saying months ago these guys were mining with customer equipment in the 'now you see it now you don't datacenter'

they deny that claim of course, but they've told so many versions of this, and everything else, that there is absolutely no way to believe a single word that comes from their mouths.

the one thing I'm crystal clear on is that these people are lying sacks of shit.  Sovu is a credit card fraudster and they've been lying about one thing after the next since word 'go'

could they be mining?  Absolutely.  They are bogus, deceitful, crooks that couldn't give a shit about their customers, so if they can be they are.  little doubt in my mind.

[notbatman]

Quoted for posterity, images mirrored.

So I recently purchased some X3 Units, and 2/4 boxes burnt down. One was burnt to complete rubbish (picture below), worst part was the blade was burnt from one end to the other so the machine stayed on causing quiet the smoke and an awful smell of burnt plastic, spoiled eggs, and burnt electronics. LUCKILY I was home..I was able to unplug em and throw the unit outside in my shed.



As for my second unit, it kept going on and off and hashing extremely low. The smell of burnt plastic kept coming and going. Opened it up and saw it begging to blacken/char on the metal of the blade; needless to say I threw it outside as well as the major fire hazard wasn't worth the cost of my home and my other mining gear or better yet my life.




Neither of the units were at default frequency; in fact all my units were under clocked and on its own dedicated 20 amp breaker.

So yeah..not sure I'll be using Black Arrow products anymore.

[notbatman]

In their most recent e-mail, I was advised that my miner was of such high quality craftsmanship that they couldn't provide refunds or compensation for the unreasonable delay. They stressed this point by stating that the capacitors used were of such high quality that they couldn't explode. It got filtered as spam and has since been deleted.

In hindsight considering the current 50% - 100% failure rate resulting in fire it really was a stroke of genius to use non-exploding capacitors, they'd surly have exploded if the cheap ones were used.

[SimonBeCoinin]

I've noticed that their latest exercise in information control is on their facebook page.

posts are disappearing off of that thing daily.  mention fire: gone.  mention Sovu: gone.  basically tell the truth:  gone.

they're probably hoping to clean their image up.

good luck with that, shitbags.

[raskul]

i'm seeing a lot of brand new X-3 units being listed on ebay today.
I'd be very careful about selling these units on, as one may be liable for criminal charges if, say.. someone burns to death in their bed one night.

just saying.

(removal of this post will hold those who censor it as culpable to any criminal act)
if you have a complaint about my posts, please get in touch via PM and i'll give you my PC ID badge number 

[ElGrandJefe]

i'm seeing a lot of brand new X-3 units being listed on ebay today.
I'd be very careful about selling these units on, as one may be liable for criminal charges if, say.. someone burns to death in their bed one night.

just saying.

(removal of this post will hold those who censor it as culpable to any criminal act)
if you have a complaint about my posts, please get in touch via PM and i'll give you my PC ID badge number 

Don't worry, this is the uncensored thread. theymos started it and merged his OP with the hundred or so pages of posts BA deleted from their self-moderated thread, so the BA shitbags have no control over it.

[raskul]

aww that's a disappointment, i thought i was working entrapment 101 

[Dallas5]

The thread is dying.

So it's GAME OVER? Everyone lost money except Blackarrow and their resellers?

[ElGrandJefe]

The thread is dying.

So it's GAME OVER? Everyone lost money except Blackarrow and their resellers?

Jumbley seems to have made out okay. He's the only one who isn't complaining, at least.

They keep coming up with new excuses for not giving refunds and shipping defective products, so there doesn't seem to be much hope that things will improve any time soon.

Short of a regulatory intervention a la BFL, I'm not optimistic.

[GPK260]

i got my x3 - Its now sat in a box doing nothing for fear of it imploding  (as they dont explode) I've asked for new has board but i'm not holing my breath Last time i ordered something from Black arrow it took 11 months and 7 days to arrive....

[goozman96]

We haven't heard from any of the people who claimed to be pursuing legal action against black arrow for a while now.. Would be nice to see an update.

[ElGrandJefe]

I'm only in for a bit under $1000, so it doesn't make a lot of sense for me to spend a lot of on lawyers to pursue it.

I've filed a complaint with the Hong Kong Consumer Council and the Hong Kong Police (cyber-crime division) and given them my full order details and history. No word on whether either is making progress, unfortunately. But they're on the radar. If enough people file police reports, they'll have to do something eventually.

[jobelz]

I too sent a complaint to the CC in HK. However, from what I gathered, they just send a letter telling them they've been bad and they should fix it.
Going to small claims court is an option, but you need to file it in person it seems, which means grabbing a flight. More costs yet again and even if they rule in your favor you won't see your money probably. They'll "prove" they're out of funds. I'm sure the way their business is structured allows them to siphon money out of there in a semi-legal way.

BA is fully aware of this and the chances this blows over for them are very real, I'm afraid. They're not impressed with the n-th letter from the HK CC.

Where are the people that claimed to have started legal actions? Maybe they did get their refund to avoid a trail but they needed to stay silent about it? Maybe there were no real legal actions just a lot of noise in forum posts that led to nothing?

Meh, this whole case doesn't help with my misanthropy issues at all! 

What other options are there?

[goozman96]

It doesn't make sense that they'd be silent about receiving a refund. Once the refund is sent, if you speak about it, it's not like black arrow can reverse the payment they sent you.