Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[DebitMe]

I understand your frustration as BA is a bunch of liars and thieves, but do you really want to BFL the situation and trade in a worthless product for a next gen worthless product?  They haven't even taped out their scrypt ASIC chip yet, just think of all the problems that happened between tape out of their SHA chip to now.  Don't believe their lies about being more competent now and knowing the business, BFL said the same exact thing and it didn't work out to well for them.

Add in the fact that their product page says that they have gone for a more complex chip than their SHA chip and that it will be able to do more things and you quickly realize that the scrypt en devour will come out even worse than their SHA en devour, which is saying something.

They will also never upgrade your order, they know their current miners are worthless/useless and if they allowed you to upgrade, they would be stuck with it, and they don't even want their own shit.  If they did, would there really be a problem with refunding people?  If they knew they could stick that X-3 in their own farm and make tons of money, they would gladly hand you your money back, so the only explanation is either they know its worthless and don't want it (AKA they scammed everyone) or they have been mining this whole time, and have no more room for more miners so they might as well send it to you anyway (AKA they scammed everyone).

I am sorry you missed so much and then people were rude to you, I am sure they were just frustrated (as most are) and took it out on you instead of rightfully on BA.  But you haven't really missed much.  They launched a new product that is about average on power use and speed by either now or next month, and are expecting more money to fund it and have it delivered by December (yea right!).  Units have been trickling out, and any unit that does get delivered pretty much instantly goes up on Ebay or something similar.  BA gets on the forums just to insult customers and make false accusations at people and claims to be incredibly busy, but they have hours each day to delete posts and moderate forums.  The lying and blaming customers continues instead of taking blame for their fuck up.  And recent developments now also include selling customer data to competitors and who knows who else.  Right now only email lists are confirmed, but I doubt it would surprise many if passwords and usernames as well as addresses were also sold or made available.

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[DebitMe]

Hopefully everyone remembers what has happened since the, "tape out" of the SHA-256 chip.  Remember how they were on track all the while for February delivery.  Then, with only a month left until shipping, decided to break the news that tape out hadn't even happened yet, although before claiming that they were still on track?

Remember how they said how quick of a process it would be once the chips were received, and now, months later, they have barely made a dent in their shipping queue?

Remember how they have said multiple lies on various subjects and continue to lie and defraud customers by mining with customer equipment?

If you order a scrypt miner from BA, I can guarantee 95% that it will not be available in December.  I will have no remorse for you and your lost money, and instead will laugh at you because you are obviously ignorant.  If you even think about ordering from a company that will not release the full chip specs, you deserve to lose your money!

They still haven't released their specs of the SHA-256 chip yet.  Bobsag had to do that, and they never commented on those stats or about the chip frequency.

Also remember how they completely missed their power targets between tape out and final chip production.  They also completely missed on almost every other aspect of the miner, or they have been self mining and have been lying about messing things up, either way do you want to do business with a lying company or an incompetent one?  Come to think of it, they lied and are incompetent.

I am willing to put up 1 btc into a trusted escrow against BA that a functioning scrypt miner will not be shipped by the end of December from them.  The chip must meet power specs and hashrate by shipping time as well, which means they must disclose this information to me for the bet to be valid.  If they are unwilling to take this bet, they obviously do not stand behind their product and are just trying to steal more from the community.

BA, you have really learned from BFL and have overtaken them on many regards.  It is time to die, you have lost too much reputation and are too scumy to continue operations.  Pack it up and die you sons of bitches.

[DebitMe]

Not talking about mining gear (although that too I guess).  They are trying to sell excess parts such as capacitors and other equipment needed to build a PCB board with their chips, and they say they will sell them for cheaper than their other companies selling capacitors and other components(who are their competitors), to which I said, "do not buy from BA, buy the components from their competitors, even if they are slightly more expensive."

They decided that they cannot build a miner that works (and we know they didn't design the chip), so they are just selling pieces of a mining rig to end users.  They have gone from a manufacturer to a whole seller, and are just as shitty in that role as they were in their previous one.  It is obvious they have no money, and are trying to scrape together whatever they can before they die, get your complaints registered and refund requests in before its too late!

[DebitMe]

Sorry, except this one, this is one of my favorites. Smiley

HAHA BA's biggest cheerleader and self proclaimed liason between BA and the community, Jumbley, who got his X-3 first because, "he kept a cool head and worked with them instead of against them" has his for sale on Ebay.

http://ecointalk.net/topic/1228-jumbleys-x3/
Here is his post showing the miner in all its glory...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bitcoin-miner-Black-Arrow-Prospero-X-3-2000Ghash-second-/231300584172?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item35da96d2ec
Here is the same miner/picture on Ebay!  Pretty good feedback on the Ebay account, so I doubt it would be someone stupid enough to steal pictures to try and scam.  It most probably is him.

So BA, even your cheerleader's are jumping ship right after receiving their units, if that doesn't tell you they are trash IDK what will.  Oh maybe the fact that you won't refund and keep them yourselves, you don't even want your own shit.

[DebitMe]

OK! If you really want to make it right by your customers, then start by answering some simple questions, I will try to keep them very to the point that should require short concise answers...

Quote
We have always been upfront and never lied to our customers. We always kept them up to date with what is going on.

Why, when it was less than two months until February 28th, did you state numerous times that you were on track to meet your shipping targets, knowing full well that no tape out process has begun?

That is one instance, there are others that I or others could easily find.

Quote
We are currently improving in every way and will be trying to make up towards our customers during the following months.

How can you justify, making it up to your customers in the coming MONTHS?  Your chips are already behind other manufacturers, and are only getting more outdated with each passing day.  The X-1 comp is already practically worthless, and the X-3 is approaching that point.
Do you honestly believe that any single customer will make back the bitcoin they spent on your machines?  And if so, please detail out how and why you think that?

Quote
Most of our customers are entitled to be upset for this delay but we think the garbage going on in this thread is unacceptable and must be pruned.

Please point out where any person has lied or spread falsities about your company (besides yourselves).  Everything I have said is absolutely true, and has been based on either your actions or what you have said.  So I am unsure as to what, "garbage" you are referring to.

Quote
The reason why we've tested on live pool is that cgminer --benchmark is buggy: reports the speed wrong (1.4Thash on X3) and does not turn on the SPI leds to confirm that the miner is working properly.

First time you have said this as an explanation.  Sure doesn't sound like the, "We always kept them up to date with what is going on." spirit.

Quote
There are about 5 people flooding this that consider themselves to represent all our customers.

There have been many many customers of yours who have contacted me asking about what lawyers I have talked to and asking my opinion on what they should do.  MinerSource is so bled for cash that they are knowingly breaking the law in an attempt to stay alive by not sending out more refunds, because so many people have requested them.  I would say the proof is in the pudding so to speak.

Quote
We have contacted them in private messages to check what is the status of their order and they have indeed been unable to provide us with a valid order number which led ourselves to believe that at least one must be funded by one of our competitor.

I have previously stated that I ordered through MinerSource and have since gotten a refund for all of my orders.  I am very happy with them, and commend them in putting up with this situation.  As previously stated, I did have an order with you, you screwed me and many others.  I am still unsure what, "competitors" you are referring to, as the real ASIC manufacturers laugh when they hear BFL or BA.  Also, why would I tell you if I had an order still pending with you guys?  You have threatened to without compensation for people who questioned you in the past, I can only imagine what you would do to my order that is still with you.

Here is a chance for you to answer some real questions from your customers.  I doubt you will, and will opt to run and hide and delete my post (which I will repost), but regardless, your, "apology" (which is another reason I am pissed, because until that post, you have never once taken credit for the failures of this venture, its always someone or somebody else), doesn't mean much without action.

[DebitMe]

HAHA either they have no more money and don't want to lose any of their own on this failure of an endeavor!  What a laughable offer!  The scum of the earth goes lower, at least BFL didn't offer investors losses in a project they plan to cancel.

And wasn't the chip supposed to tape out last week?  That's what the last update said, so BA is already missing deadlines and not doing what they said they could do.  Eerie the similarities between this project and the SHA project, almost like looking back 9 months.

If anyone even remotely considers giving them any money for an already outdated chip, they deserve to lose their 5% when BA inevitably cancels this project.  I will also start a fund for anyone who is willing to breach the NDA (remember you are outside of their country and BA can't really go after you and you can remain anonymous) and give up the specs and details of this chip.  Not like BA cares about keeping your info safe, so why should you theirs?

[DebitMe]

They are bleeding for money!  They will be gone soon.  So many useless parts since they can't build a miner that they are hawking them onto everyone else.  Don't buy that shit!  Even if it is a little more expensive, go with their competitors.  Help put a nail in BA's coffin and stick in the ground where they deserve to go.

Hard to get rid of parts when you can't build a working miner I suppose.

[DebitMe]

Um..this was a disaster.  They basically took the most unprofessional and under educated engineers and combined it with the most unprofessional PR people they could find and wrapped it into a company.

[DebitMe]

Yep, I posted negative feedback to that account, can be found here...
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=105804
I encourage others to speak their minds about this company on their trust profile.

[DebitMe]

There is no way they will provide any more compensation.  They obviously have more time as they are deleting posts now and banning people from their website, yet they still can't ship squat.  So yet another fail by this company.  People are being too compliant with what they are getting, why would they give anything else?  They can continue to run it all in their datacenter and make tons of money off of everyone who paid for that equipment.

[DebitMe]

Well well well...absolutely no surprise there BA.  You guys are the biggest scam artists of them all, hope you had fun mining with people's orders, and are just now planning to send them out, while offering people shit comp.  Always remember karma is a bitch as you will never receive another dollar from any one of your customers that have previously ordered from you, oh wait, yes you will, because they need PSU's for your shitty product since you didn't announce how to hook them up with ATX PSU's.  SURPRISE!

[SimonBeCoinin]

It'll probably get deleted like my post over at Ecoin but I

I've been waiting for a crime number for the alledged data breach back at the start of August so i can give it to the UK police.

I was told on the 25th:

"The Chinese police are refusing to open a case because they want a list with a minimum amount of customers which is higher than we have. To open a case with the Hong Kong police somebody from management will need to physically go there, which they haven't been able to do yet. "

 And today when i asked i was told :

"We have been to the Shenzhen police but they didn't want to continue as I said in my earlier post. We haven't had time yet to go to Hong Kong and go to the police there."

I'm starting to think there was no data breachand yet again i'm lead a merry Dance

Why cant anyone be bothered in a month to report the crime to hong kong police?

Are you kidding me?  Haven't had time in a month. 

Ridiculous.  More dancing from BA.

Data theft is a serious issue.

Unless of course they know it was someone inside BA or they were responsible in the first place.  Supposedly they are registered in Hong Kong.  Are they saying they have no-one in Hong Kong?  Why are they registered there if that is the case?

[SimonBeCoinin]

Another excuse, BA how lame!!



ugabuga, on 02 Sept 2014 - 6:44 PM, said:
 
I'm confused .... after all the "stuff that did not explode" after all, explodes ?
 
can someone explain?

.............................
 
 
On the hashboard there are no electrolytic capacitors. Everything is solid. They cannot explode with flame.
 
This 1500uF electrolytic capacitor ended on this board by mistake: We have added it while trying to debug the noise in the SPI and forgot to delete it from the BOM. By the time we got the backplanes they were already mounted. We did not think that it might be a problem and we were pushed by you (customer) to ship asap therefore we have not removed them. Removing them would have caused at least 1 day delay.
 
We also don't need the 470uF solid capacitors from the backplane.

That is ofcourse bullshit and they know it..
they have a huge problem on their hands cause the machine is CE certified. that means that if something happend house on fire, human electrocution and its caused by the BA miner they are responsible !!

Authorities would ask the TCD files of the miners. (Technicel Construction Dossier) if is not complete our the product did not pass certain test well you will loss your balls ....

it is absolutely bullshit.

so they had this cap that shouldn't have been on the BOM, but was.

and if they're not supposedly doing anything, why was there enough load on them to blow them and start a fire.

these guys are fucked.  these caps are likely indicative of another problem.  just putting bigger/different caps in the system doesn't solve the underlying issue of whatever caused these to fail.

are we supposed to believe that they over-rated every other part BUT the caps so we'll be fine as soon as they upgrade the caps?

BS.  this is more likely a design flaw that goes well beyond the caps.

Feel free to provide better design if you are so proficient, with analysis and free time. Why don't you get one and fix the issue? I love the people that can discuss a lot of things throw crap and stuff but cannot even make their home PC work.
Issue points only at one thing, that it has to be investigated beyond someone pointing a finger and saying "LOOK a problem!", it's like playing captain obvious.
Hope future of the technology does not depend on such people, that are able to make analysis and conclusions based on who knows what.

Good luck anyway.

From ecointalk:

http://ecointalk.net/topic/1348-my-x3-caught-fire/page-6

woobone
Newbie
 
Members
Pip
8 posts
Posted Today, 05:34 AM

"here are some pics of my burned miner look like only 2 hashing cards burned up, the back plane look ok no capacitors are blow or burned."






OK, lexx2k, if this isn't a systemic design issue then why is this customer reporting a fire that is not seemingly related to the caps?


Totally different problem, it would seem.

I was totally wrong, obviously.

Your team has designed a unit for use in people's homes that is starting on fire in multiple places.  And you're giving lectures.

Looking good there BA!

[Pentax]

http://ecointalk.net/topic/1348-my-x3-caught-fire/
 
"... there was a loud bang sound, and then i could see one of the X3's was on fire. ..."

good grief.

they should ship with a fire extinguisher mounted on the side or maybe smoke alarm.  

maybe that's the surprise.  'comes with free firefighting gear'  'teach your children about bitcoin mining AND how to run from a burning building.'

 


when they were having problems shipping because boards were popping out I wondered about the overall quality of the design.  a group that can't design something that doesn't fly apart during shipping and can't think ahead well enough to test the packaging.  what else could they have missed.   plenty, it seems.

now they're catching on fire.  hell, even I didn't expect that one.

[Pentax]

people should also realize that there is strength in numbers when it comes to these sorts of complaints.  small numbers will likely go unnoticed.  larger numbers with damages to consumers in the hundreds of thousands/millions have a better chance of getting someone to act in these agencies, but they have to know something is going on in order to actually do anything.

don't wait for 'someone else'.   


https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/#crnt&panel1-1

[Pentax]

Some one please ! Contact Some lawyer ! Sue them please ! I really exhauted now ! all means ! I have nothing now, and i have a big loan from my country bank... I going to kill my self now ! They have delete my post !

Kelvin, what country are you in?

[Pentax]

For those in the US to report unsafe products.  You can report anonymously if you prefer.  The option is given at the end of the survey.

https://www.saferproducts.gov/CPSRMSPublic/Incidents/ReportIncident.aspx[/quote]

[Pentax]

For those in Europe:

European consumers network

http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/ecc/index_en.htm


Europe also has a RAPEX system with is integrated with China that is set up to notify people of dangerous products.

http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/archive/safety/rapex/rapex_china_en.htm

Someone in the EU will have to pick up the ball on this. get in touch with the consumers network and determine how to file a RAPEX alert.

[breakingcode]

Quoted from "My X3 caught fire!!" on eCoin Talk.

Q: "Also, BA. Could you please have someone quote me to host this equipment in china?" -- cendav

A: "Hosting in China is difficult: the Chinese firewall cuts us off from the pool and the power is expensive" -- blackarrow


So hosted miners and rent-a-minion was just a lie then?

I'm guessing rent-a-minion customers will be sent BTC from the coins BA took from them as payment based on calculations of what X Gh/s would currently make on a pool.

Hey Captain, has anybody mentioned that your a filthy scumbag?

I imagine they're less inclined to host themselves now they know they're a legitimate threat to life (rather than just wallet & sanity) with the new improved self-combustion feature...

Giving it some more thought BA's statement is a problematic. I've seen pics of several Bitcoin data centres in China. Xbtec was showing off pics of theirs full of AM miners (they claim) for example. I've also seen pics from BA of their engineer kevin666 mining on ghash from inside China.

So what's going on? Is this just a bullshit excuse not to host for customers?

Perhaps it's just an easy to believe statement to lead customers away from the fact they're mining with our shit. Also do we know cendav isn't a shill? This provides BA with the excuse they need to keep mining with our shit and continue the delay until they've squeezed out every last Satoshi.

If cendav isn't a shill then sorry kid, you got robbed then mailed a fire bomb.

I'm starting to wonder about them mining with their own equipment, as it seems quite obvious that they have about a 30%+ failure/defect rate in the short term. Hard to believe you could build a farm out of such inferior equipment.


Talked to my friend at MicroCenter's distributor. He's having a meeting with his sales director to mention the possible ramifications of distributing stuff from a company that may be deeply involved in fraudulent behavior.

[Pentax]

Here is a consolidated list of links.  Further info on how to file, information on legal status, address etc., of BA in this thread.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=681965.0


For those wanting to register for an investigation forming via another customer:


"I have a mate who's an Australian Federal Police Officer and he needs to know how many others there are that have been ripped off.  He has the ability to perform international inquiries regarding Alexandru Sovu and can influence the authorities in China. http://www.afp.gov.au/media-centre/publications/platypus/previous-editions/2000/march-2000/china.aspx

I for one am liking the fact that we can influence the Ministry of Public Security and bring BA to their attention.

If you would like to be noted in the investigation and hopefully either obtain your money back or at the very least see Alexandru Sovu come to justice then please click here :- http://members.iinet.net.au/~craige/BA_Customers/BA.html.     "



US

FTC Complaints:
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/GettingStarted?NextQID=203&Url=%23%26panel1-6#crnt

Consumer Safety Complaints:
https://www.saferproducts.gov/CPSRMSPublic/Incidents/ReportIncident.aspx






Europe

European consumers network

http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/ecc/index_en.htm


Europe also has a RAPEX system with is integrated with China that is set up to notify people of dangerous products.

http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/archive/safety/rapex/rapex_china_en.htm

Someone in the EU will have to pick up the ball on this. get in touch with the consumers network and determine how to file a RAPEX alert.



http://fraudaid.com/How-To-Deal-With-Having-Been-Conned/Fraud_Report/Jurisdictions/International/ScotlandYard.htm


Hong Kong:

Hong Kong Consumer Council

http://www.consumer.org.hk/website/ws_en/complaints_and_advices/how_to_complain/howtocomplain.html

How to file a claim for your money back in HK Small Claims Court:
http://www.judiciary.gov.hk/en/crt_services/pphlt/html/sc.htm

Online Forms:
http://www.judiciary.gov.hk/en/crt_services/forms/sc.htm


China:

Shenzhen Consumer Council provided by a legal firm in Shenzhen.  Complaints can be filed through this agency.

Pages are in Chinese, so you will have to translate them if this is not your language.

http://www.sz315.org/index.php?m=content&c=index&a=lists&catid=10




China Consumer's Association

http://www.cca.org.cn/english/index.jsp


http://www.consumersinternational.org/our-members/member-directory/China%20Consumers%20Association

e-mail:  cca1984@vip.sohu.net


Australia:[/size]

Australian buyers can also report to ACCC @ http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/complaints-problems/make-a-consumer-complaint
According to ACCC, Australian consumer law protects Australian even sellers / vendors are not located in Australia as long as the sale agreement / contract takes place within Australia.



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