[2014-09-18] Bitcoin Core Developer Jeff Garzik Believes NXT is a “Scamcoin”

[rajc]

I´m new to this whole thing and can´t tell, if the claims about flaws in the PoS algorithm are true, but noone provides any convinving arguments, why there should be any. And the old Bitcoiners sure discuss like angry former authorities, not willing to pass the cepter.

Just from how it sounds. Like "what are you even doing here? It´s a bitcoin forum"...

Maybe I should consider buying some nxt

Buying NXT... Sounds like a good plan! 

.... they realize that NxT is just like having a Central Bank that can print whenever it wants. ....

Did you ever read a single line of text about NXT? "Print whaever it wants"? WTf!!!   

The amount of nxts in the NXT platform is FIXED and it is 1,000,000,000 (actually it is less coz some of them were burnt).

Guess who controls all of those coins? NxT is effectively a huge pile of printed coins that they invented from thin air without anything to prove their value. They can choose to distribute/issue this huge pile of coins at any time for any reason and to anybody, which has the exact same effect as if they printed them at the time of use. The only difference between them and a central bank is that all of the NxT scamcoins are printed in advance, all at once. There is no functional difference at all between the two.

I laid a trap and you walked right into it. If you keep going on about the nuance in definitions between "printed at time of misuse" and "printed in advance for future misuse" then you are just playing word games. Just like central banks, NxT is about financial slavery.

looool
do you really think some one is stupid enough to believe u?
you are on bitcoin forum not kindergarten

or
you are trying to promote NXT with obvious FUD. I dont think it is good strategy (see monero)

but this is too obvious bullshit
so maybe you are trying to hurt NXT by writing obvious FUD as if you were promoting it, thus making "monero effect"

or you are simply stupid and ignorant about facts

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[CoinMode]

I´m new to this whole thing and can´t tell, if the claims about flaws in the PoS algorithm are true, but noone provides any convinving arguments, why there should be any. And the old Bitcoiners sure discuss like angry former authorities, not willing to pass the cepter.

Just from how it sounds. Like "what are you even doing here? It´s a bitcoin forum"...

Maybe I should consider buying some nxt

Buying NXT... Sounds like a good plan! 

.... they realize that NxT is just like having a Central Bank that can print whenever it wants. ....

Did you ever read a single line of text about NXT? "Print whaever it wants"? WTf!!!   

The amount of nxts in the NXT platform is FIXED and it is 1,000,000,000 (actually it is less coz some of them were burnt).

Guess who controls all of those coins? NxT is effectively a huge pile of printed coins that they invented from thin air without anything to prove their value. They can choose to distribute/issue this huge pile of coins at any time for any reason and to anybody, which has the exact same effect as if they printed them at the time of use. The only difference between them and a central bank is that all of the NxT scamcoins are printed in advance, all at once. There is no functional difference at all between the two.

I laid a trap and you walked right into it. If you keep going on about the nuance in definitions between "printed at time of misuse" and "printed in advance for future misuse" then you are just playing word games. Just like central banks, NxT is about financial slavery.

looool
do you really think some one is stupid enough to believe u?
you are on bitcoin forum not kindergarten

or
you are trying to promote NXT with obvious FUD. I dont think it is good strategy (see monero)

but this is too obvious bullshit
so maybe you are trying to hurt NXT by writing obvious FUD as if you were promoting it, thus making "monero effect"

or you are simply stupid and ignorant about facts

Thank you for lobbing more insults my way. It really makes NxT look like crap when people like you "defend" it.


Nothing you said changes the fact that they (the developers of NxT) are essentially sitting on a pile of a billion coins which they (the developers) can give or sell to anybody they want, whenever they want, for whatever reason they want. Guess who has control over the 21million bitcoins that will eventually exist. Go ahead and guess. We'll be waiting for your response.

Trustless Cryptocurrency > Trust-Required Scamcoin

Do you even understand this basic concept?

[stereotype]

Do you even understand this basic concept?

No, i dont understand your basic concept. Tell me again why i should not trust the 'developers', and tell me why, with verifiable facts. Cheers

[kodtycoon]

I´m new to this whole thing and can´t tell, if the claims about flaws in the PoS algorithm are true, but noone provides any convinving arguments, why there should be any. And the old Bitcoiners sure discuss like angry former authorities, not willing to pass the cepter.

Just from how it sounds. Like "what are you even doing here? It´s a bitcoin forum"...

Maybe I should consider buying some nxt

Buying NXT... Sounds like a good plan! 

.... they realize that NxT is just like having a Central Bank that can print whenever it wants. ....

Did you ever read a single line of text about NXT? "Print whaever it wants"? WTf!!!   

The amount of nxts in the NXT platform is FIXED and it is 1,000,000,000 (actually it is less coz some of them were burnt).

Guess who controls all of those coins? NxT is effectively a huge pile of printed coins that they invented from thin air without anything to prove their value. They can choose to distribute/issue this huge pile of coins at any time for any reason and to anybody, which has the exact same effect as if they printed them at the time of use. The only difference between them and a central bank is that all of the NxT scamcoins are printed in advance, all at once. There is no functional difference at all between the two.

I laid a trap and you walked right into it. If you keep going on about the nuance in definitions between "printed at time of misuse" and "printed in advance for future misuse" then you are just playing word games. Just like central banks, NxT is about financial slavery.

looool
do you really think some one is stupid enough to believe u?
you are on bitcoin forum not kindergarten

or
you are trying to promote NXT with obvious FUD. I dont think it is good strategy (see monero)

but this is too obvious bullshit
so maybe you are trying to hurt NXT by writing obvious FUD as if you were promoting it, thus making "monero effect"

or you are simply stupid and ignorant about facts

Thank you for lobbing more insults my way. It really makes NxT look like crap when people like you "defend" it.


Nothing you said changes the fact that they (the developers of NxT) are essentially sitting on a pile of a billion coins which they (the developers) can give or sell to anybody they want, whenever they want, for whatever reason they want. Guess who has control over the 21million bitcoins that will eventually exist. Go ahead and guess. We'll be waiting for your response.

Trustless Cryptocurrency > Trust-Required Scamcoin

Do you even understand this basic concept?

the ever smaller and smaller group of miners who can afford to stay in the mining game.

so the argument against nxt essentially comes down to you thinking the developers own all the nxt?

could a handful of developers make a total of 29'704 asset exchange trades?

this number is starting to go exponential too.



to say the devs hold all the nxt is just picking at straws. just like every other argument made so far.

[CoinMode]

Do you even understand this basic concept?

No, i dont understand your basic concept. Tell me again why i should not trust the 'developers', and tell me why, with verifiable facts. Cheers

The NxT developers are human beings.

The Bitcoin algorithm is a mathematical formula.

One of them requires trust, and the other requires no trust.

Do I have to explain the concept of greed and human error, or do you understand the problem with NxT and Ripple?

As for trading volume, that chart is ridiculously misleading. You can see for yourself at coinmarketcap.com

Where the hell did all of these NxT shills come from all of a sudden?

[vipgelsi]

So far the developer has done right by us.

[CoinMode]

So far the developer has done right by us.

Two plus two always equals four. People do not always take the correct course of action. I suggest you look into this matter before buying into obvious scamcoins.

[stereotype]

Where the hell did all of these NxT shills come from all of a sudden?

All i am seeing, is another person/s uncomfortable with the concept of POS, who thinks the Bitcoin algo is the only gig in town.

Please try harder. 

[superresistant]

Two plus two always equals four. People do not always take the correct course of action. I suggest you look into this matter before buying into obvious scamcoins.

Yes you're right.

Thanks for your warnings.

Have a good day sir.

[msin]

Where the hell did all of these NxT shills come from all of a sudden?

Where did you come from, you just joined crypo in Feb, so please.  Your argument doesn't make sense.  Nxt had developers, just like BTC has developers, the only difference is that Nxt is still developing new features, unlike BTC, so development is in an active state, but the latest client as it stands is trustless and works without intervention, Nxt is nothing like Ripple.  Ripple is a corporation.

[nutildah]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r8areoxqag

NXT fan addresses Garzik's points one by one. Its good I'm told (gonna watch it right now).

Oh, and if you insist on taking Garzik's opinion on non-bitcoin related things seriously, I invite you to read some of his Twitter feed. The dude is pretty much the Rush Limbaugh of cryptocurrency.

[notthematrix]

Despite good intentions , humans can NOT be trusted , they simpley lack control over its own primal emotions.
they simply cant , so its no option to keep humans in a trust position.
this makes NXT no diffrent then the dollar.
and bitcoin diffrent.
Bitcoin does not need trust.

[kodtycoon]

Despite good intentions , humans can NOT be trusted , they simpley lack control over its own primal emotions.
they simply cant , so its no option to keep humans in a trust position.
this makes NXT no diffrent then the dollar.
and bitcoin diffrent.
Bitcoin does not need trust.

how does nxt put trust in people?

[Swordsoffreedom]

Not sure of NXT myself but it is an interesting coin that gets mentioned a lot
Guess I'll let time and investors decide the fate of that one.

[gog1]

It's not just NXT, in fact, all the so-call 2nd gen coin looks like scamcoin

[kodtycoon]

It's not just NXT, in fact, all the so-call 2nd gen coin looks like scamcoin

ok.. tell me how nem is a scam then?

[cbeast]

Despite good intentions , humans can NOT be trusted , they simpley lack control over its own primal emotions.
they simply cant , so its no option to keep humans in a trust position.
this makes NXT no diffrent then the dollar.
and bitcoin diffrent.
Bitcoin does not need trust.

how does nxt put trust in people?

The initial IPO had ten people with 50% of the stake. There is no way to prove that those ten people weren't in fact one person, nor that one person has not acquired more than 50% already. They can then hold their position forever. It's like a priesthood. You must have faith that your authority figures will be honest. NXT's version of PoS allocates the block generation by active stake. Someone with a majority of active stake has the option to attack the network surreptitiously. I doubt they would overtly attack the network because it would devalue the currency, but they would always have plausible deniability if they sporadically attack.

I can't prove that this has happened and nobody can prove that it didn't already or won't happen. You just have to trust people that they won't be greedy enough to try this.

[kodtycoon]

Despite good intentions , humans can NOT be trusted , they simpley lack control over its own primal emotions.
they simply cant , so its no option to keep humans in a trust position.
this makes NXT no diffrent then the dollar.
and bitcoin diffrent.
Bitcoin does not need trust.

how does nxt put trust in people?

The initial IPO had ten people with 50% of the stake. There is no way to prove that those ten people weren't in fact one person, nor that one person has not acquired more than 50% already. They can then hold their position forever. It's like a priesthood. You must have faith that your authority figures will be honest. NXT's version of PoS allocates the block generation by active stake. Someone with a majority of active stake has the option to attack the network surreptitiously. I doubt they would overtly attack the network because it would devalue the currency, but they would always have plausible deniability if they sporadically attack.

I can't prove that this has happened and nobody can prove that it didn't already or won't happen. You just have to trust people that they won't be greedy enough to try this.

exactly you cant prove anything.. LOL

if you held 50% or 15m+ dollars of a currency, would you screw up the network and cause the value of your holdings to plummet?

what i really love about your arguments, is even if they are totally valid arguments, your going to have a hard time putting the same fight with even remotely similar arguments against nem which i have no doubt in a few weeks you will try, and then fail lol perhaps you should read up on NEM for a bit and prepare your fud in advance

[cbeast]

Despite good intentions , humans can NOT be trusted , they simpley lack control over its own primal emotions.
they simply cant , so its no option to keep humans in a trust position.
this makes NXT no diffrent then the dollar.
and bitcoin diffrent.
Bitcoin does not need trust.

how does nxt put trust in people?

The initial IPO had ten people with 50% of the stake. There is no way to prove that those ten people weren't in fact one person, nor that one person has not acquired more than 50% already. They can then hold their position forever. It's like a priesthood. You must have faith that your authority figures will be honest. NXT's version of PoS allocates the block generation by active stake. Someone with a majority of active stake has the option to attack the network surreptitiously. I doubt they would overtly attack the network because it would devalue the currency, but they would always have plausible deniability if they sporadically attack.

I can't prove that this has happened and nobody can prove that it didn't already or won't happen. You just have to trust people that they won't be greedy enough to try this.

exactly you cant prove anything.. LOL

if you held 50% or 15m+ dollars of a currency, would you screw up the network and cause the value of your holdings to plummet?

what i really love about your arguments, is even if they are totally valid arguments, your going to have a hard time putting the same fight with even remotely similar arguments against nem which i have no doubt in a few weeks you will try, and then fail lol perhaps you should read up on NEM for a bit and prepare your fud in advance

That's why I don't even need to bother reading about NEM. There will always be another PoS. PoS doesn't need an expensive infrastructure, just a marketing gimmick. You say I have valid arguments, yet still call it FUD. Interesting. In fact, I am excited about the possibility of PoS, it's just that none of them are any good yet.

[kodtycoon]

Despite good intentions , humans can NOT be trusted , they simpley lack control over its own primal emotions.
they simply cant , so its no option to keep humans in a trust position.
this makes NXT no diffrent then the dollar.
and bitcoin diffrent.
Bitcoin does not need trust.

how does nxt put trust in people?

The initial IPO had ten people with 50% of the stake. There is no way to prove that those ten people weren't in fact one person, nor that one person has not acquired more than 50% already. They can then hold their position forever. It's like a priesthood. You must have faith that your authority figures will be honest. NXT's version of PoS allocates the block generation by active stake. Someone with a majority of active stake has the option to attack the network surreptitiously. I doubt they would overtly attack the network because it would devalue the currency, but they would always have plausible deniability if they sporadically attack.

I can't prove that this has happened and nobody can prove that it didn't already or won't happen. You just have to trust people that they won't be greedy enough to try this.

exactly you cant prove anything.. LOL

if you held 50% or 15m+ dollars of a currency, would you screw up the network and cause the value of your holdings to plummet?

what i really love about your arguments, is even if they are totally valid arguments, your going to have a hard time putting the same fight with even remotely similar arguments against nem which i have no doubt in a few weeks you will try, and then fail lol perhaps you should read up on NEM for a bit and prepare your fud in advance

That's why I don't even need to bother reading about NEM. There will always be another PoS. PoS doesn't need an expensive infrastructure, just a marketing gimmick. You say I have valid arguments, yet still call it FUD. Interesting. In fact, I am excited about the possibility of PoS, it's just that none of them are any good yet.

you are right in saying nxt distribution is not very good, but you push it too far, and then it becomes fud.

ok now we are making progress(bolded part)

this is why i brought up nem.. its not PoS. its PoI. proof of importance. in nem your level of importance to the network is what decides your "forging power". it is partly based on how many coins you have but mostly how important you are to the network ie. if you distribute your coins via tx fees or any other transactions to other nodes with high importance then you gain importance. i you hoard, it drops(not by much but enough to deter hoarding). its not about how many transactions you do, but with whom you do transactions. if you make a transaction with a very high fee, your importance will rise a little i think even though the number of coins you have has gone down. people have been trying to break PoI for months with out any luck.

this gives even small holders the opportunity to have a high importance regardless of their lack of coins. it will help increase the already large network effect created by 3000 original stake holders who got 1 million each, the vast majority being unique users/veteran accounts. distribution is pretty much the opposite of nxt. the largest stake holder in nem isnt even 1%. it will have all the features that nxt has and probably more. remote forging(forge with coins in cold storage) is a planned feature for beta (currently in alpha) as well as time synchronization between nodes(security feature). multisig could possibly be a feature ready for beta too but im not sure on that one. also it doesnt use brain wallets. it uses a local wallet but i think it could be a little different than regular bitcoin like local wallets. but for the most part i think its the same thing.