http://www.pyramining.com/ - Discussion thread (no advertising here)

[rdyoung]

Pyramining needs to invest part of the funds into next gen, and the rest at cex.io
IF/when next gen is ready for a large investment, he can pull the funds out of cex.
This is the only way I see at the moment for some ground to be made up. cex at the moment charges no fees.

There is a way to have earnings paid out automatically so the whole system stays hands off as it is now.


Just my 2 bitcents...

[1714197694]

1714197694

[1714197694]

1714197694

[Akka]

@greedo : Troll or just greedy as f***?  Because of early FPGA investors the ROI time for everyone went to ''da moon''!
Most FPGA investors wouldn't have nearly reached ROI without the Asic investors!
You said you got your investment+ interest back already, so what's the point? Yeah, you are totally in position to scream: ''scaaaaaaaam!''  

If I signed up to a site that says I am suppose to get X returned + Y% and it doesn't deliver on that promise then it is a scam, and I am in the position to say that, cause most people would agree with it. If pyramining changes those terms then I should have to agree to them again or I should be brought of rest of my earnings. I don't see how I am greedy I invested early on, I took a risk. They could have taken my coins and not delivered. I deserved to be rewarded for that. You came after it was deemed a good investment, I am sorry you didn't research it out like I did.

Technically you are right. No question there, but if you can't see the point that you already have made a profit and without the new investors less, so pausing your profit until they are at least paid back, would be fair, then, well this:

greedy as f***

[rdyoung]

Technically you are right. No question there, but if you can't see the point that you already have made a profit and without the new investors less, so pausing your profit until they are at least paid back, would be fair, then, well this:

greedy as f***

But you don't see how business works. I took the biggest risk, unless you signed up 1st day, cause I signed up like the 2nd or 3rd day. Who knows what could have happened during that time. Just like you invest in a company, the first people to invest get the biggest share of the company, at a low cost. Cause the risk at that time is just so great and the market is untested. So what you guys are now saying and calling me a "greedy pig" isn't true at all. I technically paved the way for you people to come and safely depositing your coins, cause you knew at the time it was safe and it made money. I am looking at this purely that we are all investors and this is how the world works. Sucks for you guys, but I don't know why my profits should be given up, when you all clearly knew bitcoin difficult rises, pyramining would develop ASIC miners, and hardware is expensive and hard to build.

See this is why I hate this part of the ecosystem of bitcoin. Bitcoins have turned everyone into wantabe investors. Wantabe investors have never invested a cent before getting into bitcoins. They want the company to make good on their investment, that isn't how the world works. Take it from me some investments don't pay off, and you know what you do, you invest in other places and try to make back what you can. Investors sometimes go completely broke. This is life, this is how business works. It sucks you all got sucked into this investment thinking tomorrow you were going to get your money back, but lets be far and say the real investors that made money deserve and not name call them.

Pyramining is working correctly as they should be the top people that took the most risk, will get paid out first and you all have wait. It is even better to be in the middle, cause when I get paid out, my GH/s will be divided by you guys and speed you guys up, making a new tier of top users to call "greedy pigs". Even one day you will all be in that position.

+100000000000000000

[symbot]

If I signed up to a site that says I am suppose to get X returned + Y% and it doesn't deliver on that promise then it is a scam, and I am in the position to say that, cause most people would agree with it.

Most people will not agree with it.

Pyramining never said you would get X + Y%.  He said you would get mining hardware that was expected to generate X + Y% under the business model that he explained as clearly as he possibly could.  Nobody has been scammed if they don't get paid X + Y%.  Not early investors, not late investors, not anybody.

[Akka]

Technically you are right. No question there, but if you can't see the point that you already have made a profit and without the new investors less, so pausing your profit until they are at least paid back, would be fair, then, well this:

greedy as f***

But you don't see how business works. I took the biggest risk, unless you signed up 1st day, cause I signed up like the 2nd or 3rd day. Who knows what could have happened during that time. Just like you invest in a company, the first people to invest get the biggest share of the company, at a low cost. Cause the risk at that time is just so great and the market is untested. So what you guys are now saying and calling me a "greedy pig" isn't true at all. I technically paved the way for you people to come and safely depositing your coins, cause you knew at the time it was safe and it made money. I am looking at this purely that we are all investors and this is how the world works. Sucks for you guys, but I don't know why my profits should be given up, when you all clearly knew bitcoin difficult rises, pyramining would develop ASIC miners, and hardware is expensive and hard to build.

See this is why I hate this part of the ecosystem of bitcoin. Bitcoins have turned everyone into wantabe investors. Wantabe investors have never invested a cent before getting into bitcoins. They want the company to make good on their investment, that isn't how the world works. Take it from me some investments don't pay off, and you know what you do, you invest in other places and try to make back what you can. Investors sometimes go completely broke. This is life, this is how business works. It sucks you all got sucked into this investment thinking tomorrow you were going to get your money back, but lets be far and say the real investors that made money deserve and not name call them.

Pyramining is working correctly as they should be the top people that took the most risk, will get paid out first and you all have wait. It is even better to be in the middle, cause when I get paid out, my GH/s will be divided by you guys and speed you guys up, making a new tier of top users to call "greedy pigs". Even one day you will all be in that position.

I signed up within the first 4 days of this service (at least this thread was 4 days old). The reason why you are in the profit are is not because you signed up early, unless accounts made about 50% Return in the first 4 days. You are not in a profit position because you invested early, but because you most likely got many/huge deposits through you referrals.

And I'm not arguing the Technical point. The rules where clear. But with the current return Time we are at a point where nobody but the top 1% will even see their basic Investment back. I'm not talking about who makes profit when, but damage reduction to soften the hurt for everyone.

[BobbyJo]

Gweedo is right.  Pyramining is working as advertised and as intended.  Difficulty has increased and some people have got stung. 

You cannot force people to reinvest their payouts if they don't want to.  Those o you proposing a 90% tax on payouts, to be reinvested should reinvest your own payouts.  No one is stopping you.  Why should other people be forced to reinvest to ensure you get paid out earlier? 

We all knew the risk when we invested.  Its too late to complain about it now.

[Lincoln6Echo]

I know, many don't like to here this, but maybe at some point the focus should be shifted from making a profit to give every Investor his money back = skip the bonus for all accounts. Or when an account is at 100% pause it until all current accounts had their original investments returned and then work off the bonus. 

It's not about forcing someone to reinvest

[rdyoung]

I know, many don't like to here this, but maybe at some point the focus should be shifted from making a profit to give every Investor his money back = skip the bonus for all accounts. Or when an account is at 100% pause it until all current accounts had their original investments returned and then work off the bonus. 

It's not about forcing someone to reinvest

But thats exactly what the debate was about. If you look back at previous posts thats what was proposed.

[chriswen]

Since, forcing people to invest is unethical, I think you should incentivize investing.

My proposal is a mix.  50% of your bitcoins go towards the pool, you get the pool rate for infrastructure.  The other 50% goes to the current infrastructure rate.  With the pool rate your hashrate will go over time, you'll also be helping other pool members.  With the other 50% your hash rate will not grow but you'll be getting a lot more in the short term.  And because of this program more people will invest making the pool more sustainable.  What's great about this site WAS the fact that its sustainable.  Convenience drew in customers.  Now the price cost of investing is so much more (you get 10% value) that there is little reason to invest here.  Which means its not sustainable, the more unprofitable it gets the more unprofitable it gets faster, growth is needed to sustain this business.

The other way is for people to invest because they want to support this site.  that's charity.  Except that pyramining is investing anyways.  So this guaranteed investment from pyramining is great for him and for our investment.  But, we can't only depend on that, the site needs growth orelse the hash rate will run away.   

[pyra-proxy]

I agree on a permanent investment option, personally I'd prefer it not tied to a fixed hash rate but instead to a fixed deposit.  The subtle difference is that the permanent portion of deposits get accumulated into a single non-diminishing deposit, this deposit works just like a deposit today except that the rewards it generates never reduces it's size and it's hash rate will grow and shrink in proportion to the rest of the system just like a current deposit today relative to all other deposits.

I don't know all of the infrastructure that pyramining has established notably regarding electrical use/cost (which is critical in the current mining ecosystem), but if pyramining's electrical costs are very low or based on renewable energy sources from on-site then another growth option would be to have a "hardware deposit" option, how this might work is that pyramining deposits to the pyramining account of an end user's choice the amount of funds equal to the "new infrastructure" cost on working asic mining hardware that is sent to him.  As asic manufacture is cheaper naturally over time this makes old hardware such as avalons/BFLs/asic miners diminish in value as well with this plan so these bits of hardware could prove a valuable source of increased mining infrastructure.  However, to double stress it's only viable if pyramining electrical infrastructure is very low cost meaning these older asics would have an extended life at the primary facility.  The added bonus to this option is adding double hash power with a single deposit, since pyramining is "purchasing" this hardware through a deposit into a pyramining account they will be adding the old hardware at X hashrate and purchasing X hashrate of new hardware, this would be a great program for pyramining to use regarding the funds mentioned before that they were being planned to possibly invest to boost hash rate.

[rigel]

Since, forcing people to invest is unethical, I think you should incentivize investing.

My proposal is a mix.  50% of your bitcoins go towards the pool, you get the pool rate for infrastructure.  The other 50% goes to the current infrastructure rate.  With the pool rate your hashrate will go over time, you'll also be helping other pool members.  With the other 50% your hash rate will not grow but you'll be getting a lot more in the short term.  And because of this program more people will invest making the pool more sustainable.  What's great about this site WAS the fact that its sustainable.  Convenience drew in customers.  Now the price cost of investing is so much more (you get 10% value) that there is little reason to invest here.  Which means its not sustainable, the more unprofitable it gets the more unprofitable it gets faster, growth is needed to sustain this business.

I think this is a very good compromise between avoiding obsolescence of old accounts and new accounts profitability.

[drakahn]

Can anyone log in? Its not working for me.

[gweedo]

Can anyone log in? Its not working for me.

Logged in just fine.

[pyramining]

I'm receiving a lot of messages and I am having hard time answering to everyone, however I'm doing my best in replying and soon everyone will receive their answer.

I read that there are several proposals by many members. It's not possible to change the rules, at least for "old" deposits because it would be unethical. I am delivering exactly what has been promised. I can understand some disappointment because nobody (me included) expected difficulty to raise so fast and so much.

Personally I have invested a lot in pyramining and I am the "biggest" member who would lose if nothing will be done. I am motivated much more than you all to find a solution. I read that several members suggested to buy equipment from "this" or "this other" vendor. Here is my point of view:

If a vendor is accepting preorders for some hardware, buying at those conditions is not smart because a lot of people would already have invested by that time and when the vendor ships, difficulty would increase at the point that the former-good-offer becomes unprofitable.

As I said before, there are only two choices: 1) buying other vendors hardware if price is considerably lower than public offer (it would still make sense for them because I would order big quantities), so that it will remain profitable even if difficulty increases; 2) Design more efficient ASICs myself (a very big effort, expecially because actually I am not a "big" company).

I think that we shouldn't rush for a solution; wait for the situation to settle down and meanwhile consider all the commercial opportunities.

Someone asked how long current hardware will be profitable. At current power costs, in my premises, units will be profitable until the network will reach around 12PH/s. The bad side of the news is that while there has been a period of time where we were producing more than 35BTC/day, the revenues are now shrinking quickly.

Someone else asked about the current performances. Currently running ASICs are 1GH/s each on average, 2.5W. After two multiple-chip boards failing to work as expected, to speed up deployment, I decided to reduce the design to a single chip with an USB-serial controller mounted. USB boards are assembled into 5U rackmount boxes containing 200 units each. It means 1.6GH/s rack. There are currently 3 racks full of miners plus some units off-rack. Someone of you came to my premises and seen the miners in person.

I will update as soon as I will have any news.

[drakahn]

Can anyone log in? Its not working for me.

Logged in just fine.

I was using the payout address instead of the deposit address, bah, its been a while. everything is working fine.

[pyramining]

In the last few days I had several meetings and I am currently finalizing a partnership with a 28nm ASIC chip producer (NDA, so I can't reveal much). It will bring us opportunity to add more than 30GH/s per BTC before then end of January. When the agreement will be finalized, all deposits will be kept in queue until the new infrastructure will be deployed.

I am also making some simulations on new account policies that would give incentives in joining, and still contribute to all members.

[bradyon]

In the last few days I had several meetings and I am currently finalizing a partnership with a 28nm ASIC chip producer (NDA, so I can't reveal much). It will bring us opportunity to add more than 30GH/s per BTC before then end of January. When the agreement will be finalized, all deposits will be kept in queue until the new infrastructure will be deployed.

I am also making some simulations on new account policies that would give incentives in joining, and still contribute to all members.

Great! Willing to see the improvements!
 

[seot]

In the last few days I had several meetings and I am currently finalizing a partnership with a 28nm ASIC chip producer (NDA, so I can't reveal much). It will bring us opportunity to add more than 30GH/s per BTC before then end of January. When the agreement will be finalized, all deposits will be kept in queue until the new infrastructure will be deployed.

I am also making some simulations on new account policies that would give incentives in joining, and still contribute to all members.

[chriswen]

In the last few days I had several meetings and I am currently finalizing a partnership with a 28nm ASIC chip producer (NDA, so I can't reveal much). It will bring us opportunity to add more than 30GH/s per BTC before then end of January. When the agreement will be finalized, all deposits will be kept in queue until the new infrastructure will be deployed.

I am also making some simulations on new account policies that would give incentives in joining, and still contribute to all members.

Awesome!

[symbot]

Difficulty just jumped again:

Break even:   ~ 149 months
Complete reward:   ~ 164 months
Current infrastructure:   267.77 MH/BTC
New infrastructure:   ~ 2857.14 MH/BTC