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Author Topic: http://www.pyramining.com/ - Discussion thread (no advertising here)  (Read 297170 times)
symbot
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April 03, 2014, 02:26:27 PM
 #2501

Whats up with the "small hole"?
Bigger than suspected...

I think the main problem is probably that p2pool has been having terrible luck:

Pool Hashrate: 195 TH/s Estimated Time to Block: 1d6h35m Current Round: 4d20h3m

See:  http://p2pool.info/
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rdyoung
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April 03, 2014, 03:06:59 PM
 #2502

Whats up with the "small hole"?
Bigger than suspected...

I think the main problem is probably that p2pool has been having terrible luck:

Pool Hashrate: 195 TH/s Estimated Time to Block: 1d6h35m Current Round: 4d20h3m

See:  http://p2pool.info/

Yep, and I will say it again so pyra might see it, we need to move to eligius.
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April 03, 2014, 07:38:07 PM
 #2503

Yep, and I will say it again so pyra might see it, we need to move to eligius.
No we don't... variance... it'll even out... and the positives for staying on a decentralized system, outweigh the risks of centralizing on pools.

Don't get so uptight about the variance. We're fine.

Make yourself a hat out of tinfoil if it makes you feel better.

=squeak=

rdyoung
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April 03, 2014, 09:29:34 PM
 #2504

Yep, and I will say it again so pyra might see it, we need to move to eligius.
No we don't... variance... it'll even out... and the positives for staying on a decentralized system, outweigh the risks of centralizing on pools.

Don't get so uptight about the variance. We're fine.

Make yourself a hat out of tinfoil if it makes you feel better.

=squeak=
I am not the tinfoil hat type.
I would be fine with the variance but its getting worse. We are now at over 5 days with no block found with difficulty jumping another 20% in 2 days.
Look back at my post history, I was arguing from your POV when he first brought it up, but now its not worth the benefits when this p2pool node is not growing in relation to the network. Plus, when we do find a block we will have to wait for 120 blocks before pyraminings back end doles out earnings. Its time for eligius.

I'll say it again, move the new hardware to eligius asap. The sooner the better.

Why are you so against moving to eligius? Its 0% fee, steadier payouts because its 1/8th of the network and they merge nmc. Why is eligius so terrifying to you?
platti
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April 03, 2014, 11:23:09 PM
 #2505

Whats up with the "small hole"?
Bigger than suspected...

I think the main problem is probably that p2pool has been having terrible luck:

Pool Hashrate: 195 TH/s Estimated Time to Block: 1d6h35m Current Round: 4d20h3m

See:  http://p2pool.info/

Yep, and I will say it again so pyra might see it, we need to move to eligius.


I said this 9 month ago ...

simonk83
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April 03, 2014, 11:24:08 PM
 #2506


Why are you so against moving to eligius? Its 0% fee, steadier payouts because its 1/8th of the network and they merge nmc. Why is eligius so terrifying to you?

Luke.  That's plenty reason enough.
rdyoung
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April 04, 2014, 12:53:37 AM
 #2507

Quote from: symbot pink=topic=80845.msg6052803#msg6052803 date=1396535187
Whats up with the "small hole"?
Bigger than suspected...

I think the main problem is probably that p2pool has been having terrible luck:

Pool Hashrate: 195 TH/s Estimated Time to Block: 1d6h35m Current Round: 4d20h3m

See:  http://p2pool.info/

Yep, and I will say it again so pyra might see it, we need to move to eligius.


I said this 9 month ago ...
I was for the support of p2pool, but with p2pool.info not keeping up with network its time to rethink. I know p2pool is high variance, but this is on the edge of absurd. If I am not mistaken we will get paid our share of the next block, but not for the work submitted over the past 5+ days. That is 5 days of wasted electricity and hashing power.
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April 04, 2014, 03:02:46 AM
 #2508

I am not the tinfoil hat type.
I would be fine with the variance but its getting worse. We are now at over 5 days with no block found with difficulty jumping another 20% in 2 days.
Look back at my post history, I was arguing from your POV when he first brought it up, but now its not worth the benefits when this p2pool node is not growing in relation to the network. Plus, when we do find a block we will have to wait for 120 blocks before pyraminings back end doles out earnings. Its time for eligius.

I'll say it again, move the new hardware to eligius asap. The sooner the better.

Why are you so against moving to eligius? Its 0% fee, steadier payouts because its 1/8th of the network and they merge nmc. Why is eligius so terrifying to you?
The question that comes to my mind is, why are you pushing for that pool so much?

You're sounding like you're working yourself up for little reason.

Over the long haul, it balances out.

If you were recommending that Pyramining diversify, devoting the hashpower between P2Pool, Eligius, and 1 other pool, then ok, that's reasonable, and I would be in support of your position. Diversification is a good thing to do... but devoting everything onto a single centralized pool? Screw that.

Variance is just something that comes with the territory, and if you weren't willing to invest in a long-term investment, why did you invest in Pyramining in the first place?

=squeak=

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April 04, 2014, 03:04:18 AM
 #2509

I was for the support of p2pool, but with p2pool.info not keeping up with network its time to rethink. I know p2pool is high variance, but this is on the edge of absurd. If I am not mistaken we will get paid our share of the next block, but not for the work submitted over the past 5+ days. That is 5 days of wasted electricity and hashing power.
Perhaps you should have invested your funds in some mining gear and pointed it at a PPS pool instead?

=squeak=

rdyoung
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April 04, 2014, 03:42:08 AM
 #2510

I was for the support of p2pool, but with p2pool.info not keeping up with network its time to rethink. I know p2pool is high variance, but this is on the edge of absurd. If I am not mistaken we will get paid our share of the next block, but not for the work submitted over the past 5+ days. That is 5 days of wasted electricity and hashing power.
Perhaps you should have invested your funds in some mining gear and pointed it at a PPS pool instead?

=squeak=

Honestly, where I invest is none of your business.
No, I am not getting worked up, but I am getting a little irritated seeing the clock keep ticking upwards with no block in site.
I chose eligius as the pool because its the smallest big pool and the best one at the moment. Its not very large so by using them we support a diversified ecosystem. Its also the simplest pool to join, your btc Addy is your username, that simple.

I ask you why your so insistent on staying with p2pool?
You are not acknowledging the fact with the diff change in 2 days our chances of finding a block go down even further.
Your also not recognizing the wasted resources for the past 5+ days.

Why didn't you suggest a multi pool strategy? Even though IMO it would be a waste of hashing power, unless we can find a several petahash p2pool to join.

One last thing, do you not want the extra income nmc would bring?
Squeaker
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April 04, 2014, 04:51:19 AM
 #2511

Honestly, where I invest is none of your business.
then keep it to yourself.
Quote
No, I am not getting worked up, but I am getting a little irritated seeing the clock keep ticking upwards with no block in site.
I chose eligius as the pool because its the smallest big pool and the best one at the moment. Its not very large so by using them we support a diversified ecosystem. Its also the simplest pool to join, your btc Addy is your username, that simple.
We're already supporting a diversified ecosystem, I see no compelling reason why we need to change it.
Quote
I ask you why your so insistent on staying with p2pool?
You are not acknowledging the fact with the diff change in 2 days our chances of finding a block go down even further.
Your also not recognizing the wasted resources for the past 5+ days.
Yes, yes yes... the diff change comes up... every week we hear that... the diff change has been trending up for years... nothing to be alarmist about. This is normal, and your inability to relax and accept long-term statistics does not constitute a dire emergency situation on our part.

He's been using P2Pool for a very long time. Even when he had part of the hashpower pointing at a centralized pool, P2Pool was still part of the mining. I prefer he stay with P2Pool, because I'm tired of seeing pools and exchanges falling down and disappearing, and taking a loss every time it happens. P2Pool mitigates that risk a great deal, and 120 confirms also isn't a big deal.

You're just too uptight and impatient, and you just need to calm the fuck down already.
Quote
Why didn't you suggest a multi pool strategy? Even though IMO it would be a waste of hashing power, unless we can find a several petahash p2pool to join.
I believe I just did suggest a multi-pool strategy, but I'm happy not suggesting it, as I am content with the current situation as it is. I'm not losing my mind over the variance temporarily going against us. I know it will even out in the long run.
Quote
One last thing, do you not want the extra income nmc would bring?
He doesn't need to go to Eligius for that. He can add in the NMC daemon, and why not throw in the DVC daemon on top of it for good measure, any time he wants to. P2Pool supports merge-mining, FYI...

Take a chill-pill, man... you're totally wigging out for no good reason...

=squeak=

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April 04, 2014, 10:58:57 AM
 #2512

Squeaker: Posting a fresh reply to avoid going nuts on the quotes of quotes.

I know all about the difficulty increases, I was referring the fact that @ 5.5 days without a block we are in outlier territory that could be the start of a new trend. If we don't find a block in the next 36 hours, we will have a 20% smaller chance of finding one.  

How many days must we go with no block for you to be willing to see things from a different pov? Would 10 days do it or 20? Maybe a month? I don't like seeing money left on the table because we are essentially solomining. For the variance to even out we will have to be extremely lucky in the short-term, and the whole % of luck on blocks found is the gamblers fallacy. Finding or not finding a block overtime has no influence on when we will find the next block same as each roll of the dice has no impact on future rolls.
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April 04, 2014, 11:23:04 AM
 #2513

Status update: first 5TH/s have been installed. I will be able to install about 5TH/s week, maybe slightly more. There is a small "hole" to recoup due to the power usage of the previous generation ASICs. In a few days, payouts could start coming again.
I will post some more details in the next days. I have been very busy making everything up and running.
please new update?

Lincoln6Echo
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April 04, 2014, 11:36:48 AM
 #2514

UPDATE:

1. The ,,small'' hole is actually a black hole-> sorry for that  Tongue
2. Pyra used the new consulting service from Avalon on how to mine great profits with peoples mining hardware and telling them shit.
3. Sorry for trolling but I think pyra's communication behavior is very annoying!


             ▄████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████▄
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gektek
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April 04, 2014, 12:14:27 PM
 #2515

If I am reading p2pool.info correctly they found a block 3 hours ago so something will trickle down after another 15 or so. In the mean time...I've been with Pyra long enough to see the pattern. Its not fun to be 'in the dark' for months on end but every single time Pyra comes through with exactly what was promised and every time people start blowing their tops the longer there is no word from Pyra. Point of this post? None really...just sayin love ya Pyra...keep up the good work! Cuz I know that not hearing from you is usually a good thing Cheesy
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April 04, 2014, 08:29:09 PM
 #2516

Squeaker: Posting a fresh reply to avoid going nuts on the quotes of quotes.

I know all about the difficulty increases, I was referring the fact that @ 5.5 days without a block we are in outlier territory that could be the start of a new trend. If we don't find a block in the next 36 hours, we will have a 20% smaller chance of finding one.  

How many days must we go with no block for you to be willing to see things from a different pov? Would 10 days do it or 20? Maybe a month? I don't like seeing money left on the table because we are essentially solomining. For the variance to even out we will have to be extremely lucky in the short-term, and the whole % of luck on blocks found is the gamblers fallacy. Finding or not finding a block overtime has no influence on when we will find the next block same as each roll of the dice has no impact on future rolls.
I know very well how variance and luck works... I just think you, like so many others, still only think of it in the short-view...

We've had bad luck lately... and if we leave just because of that, when it flips around over a period of good luck (and it always does), we won't be there to capitalize on it.

1 retargetting period, is not a long-view.

=squeak=

rdyoung
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April 05, 2014, 02:05:30 AM
 #2517

Squeaker: Posting a fresh reply to avoid going nuts on the quotes of quotes.

I know all about the difficulty increases, I was referring the fact that @ 5.5 days without a block we are in outlier territory that could be the start of a new trend. If we don't find a block in the next 36 hours, we will have a 20% smaller chance of finding one.  

How many days must we go with no block for you to be willing to see things from a different pov? Would 10 days do it or 20? Maybe a month? I don't like seeing money left on the table because we are essentially solomining. For the variance to even out we will have to be extremely lucky in the short-term, and the whole % of luck on blocks found is the gamblers fallacy. Finding or not finding a block overtime has no influence on when we will find the next block same as each roll of the dice has no impact on future rolls.
I know very well how variance and luck works... I just think you, like so many others, still only think of it in the short-view...

We've had bad luck lately... and if we leave just because of that, when it flips around over a period of good luck (and it always does), we won't be there to capitalize on it.

1 retargetting period, is not a long-view.

=squeak=


Decades of technical analysis tells me different.
As I said before, the 5.5 day block time was an outlier. The longest block we have had in the past 3 months was 4+days.
What I see with this last extreme block time is a signal that block times are likely to get even longer. In stock/commodities charts a serious spike up or down is usually the price testing a new high/low, its a sign that a change in direction is possible.

I don't want to sound rude or condescending, but what about the simple fact that p2pool.info is 1/240th of the network and shrinking don't you get??? The smaller p2pool.info is in relation to the network the more varied our block times are going to get.
Yes, this last block time could be an anomaly, and if it is then great, if its not and we assumed it is, we are leaving money on the table.

I really don't care what pool is used, as long as its large enough to give us some steady payouts.
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April 05, 2014, 02:23:26 AM
 #2518

5.5 day block time, at the time, was probably an outlier sure, but now it isn't an outlier...

back when I started with P2Pool, a 24 hour block time, was an outlier...

You can't just keep thinking 5.5 and 6 day times as outliers without taking the rest into account... difficulty, and hashpower...

If the difficulty continues to rise faster than you can add hashpower, then those outlier times from before, begin to stop being outliers later... they become part of the norm.

Quote
I don't want to sound rude or condescending, but what about the simple fact that p2pool.info is 1/240th of the network and shrinking don't you get???
What makes you think I don't get it? Read what I just said above...

You're going totally ape-shit over nothing... seriously... you are... if you can't intellectually and emotionally handle mining with a service that is not PPS based, then YOU, SHOULD, NOT, BE, HERE...

Suck it up... or take your marbles and go play somewhere else.

=squeak=

rdyoung
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April 05, 2014, 02:50:28 AM
 #2519

5.5 day block time, at the time, was probably an outlier sure, but now it isn't an outlier...

back when I started with P2Pool, a 24 hour block time, was an outlier...

You can't just keep thinking 5.5 and 6 day times as outliers without taking the rest into account... difficulty, and hashpower...

If the difficulty continues to rise faster than you can add hashpower, then those outlier times from before, begin to stop being outliers later... they become part of the norm.

Quote
I don't want to sound rude or condescending, but what about the simple fact that p2pool.info is 1/240th of the network and shrinking don't you get???
What makes you think I don't get it? Read what I just said above...

You're going totally ape-shit over nothing... seriously... you are... if you can't intellectually and emotionally handle mining with a service that is not PPS based, then YOU, SHOULD, NOT, BE, HERE...

Suck it up... or take your marbles and go play somewhere else.

=squeak=


Wow, just wow.
I try to have an intelligent discussion about something and you interpret it as me going ape shit? How does that work?
If you stub your toe does that mean your leg needs amputated?

Not sure where to start with your response.
How can something be an outlier 12 hours ago, and now its not one?
Its an outlier because the longest time in the past 90+ days is 4days 7 hours. This last block was 25% longer than the longest block in recent history.

Your making my point for me. "Back in my day 24 hours was an outlier", and now we are at 5.5 days, thats a 500%+ growth in block times. How do you not see that this p2pool node is NOT keeping up with the network. I would be fine with us moving to another node that had more hashing power. When we hit 10 days for a block are you going to tell me thats just variance? What about when we hit 20? Are those going non outlier outliers as well?

Is it possible for you to discuss something intelligently instead of telling me I need to take my marbles and go home?
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April 05, 2014, 03:21:24 AM
 #2520

Yes... it is still variance... and regardless of if you're on P2Pool, or a centralized pool, you're still going to be doing the same percentage of the hashpower for the whole network...

and yes... you're going ape-shit... the impression I have been getting from you this whole time is that you think the sky is falling, and you're running around like Chicken Little, in desperation, with only a limited understanding of what is actually happening around you. From the very first post I saw about you pushing to go to that pool.

How much has the total network hashpower gone up in the past 90 days that you referenced? And you're focusing so hard on an outlier, that may not even be an outlier now with today's network hashpower relative to our hash rate.

Also, much of that time on P2Pool, has been without Pyramining's hashpower included, as the mining hardware has been offline for a while. It is coming back online now, which will change things for P2Pool by a measurable degree.

Sorry, bud... but at no time during our back and forth, did I feel like we were having an "intelligent debate"... so that feeling was, unfortunately, one-sided on your part.

I'll end my participation on this particular topic, here.

Have a good weekend.

=squeak=

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