[ANN] 700,000 Cash Deposit Locations in Brazil, Russia, USA - BitInstant

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

So, on the Newbies thread someone posted (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15958.msg983040#msg983040) regarding an issue of not getting their coins for more than 12 hours.

I just came here to ask about BitInstant. I have used them before and it was indeed 'instant', but I did $1200 in deposits with them yesterday and I still haven't received anything from them! Nor have they responded to my support email.

I have recently suffered from the same problem, I thought it was caused by writing a check rather than depositing cash directly, but I could be wrong.

I paid by cash on Wednesday and received my coins in <20 minutes from the time I deposited. Today I deposited (<$1000) by check, and I haven't received my coins yet, for 3 hours now.

I have also received exactly one email regarding my recent transaction, that is my invoice to take to the bank from TrustCash.

Does anybody happen to know what the matter is? Who should I contact here?

Hey,

Your issue is you wrote a check, now we have to wait 3 days until it clears. It's not TrustCASH for nothing 

The customer in the newbies thread and I have been speaking via email.

Thanks!

Charlie

[Gladamas]

So, on the Newbies thread someone posted (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15958.msg983040#msg983040) regarding an issue of not getting their coins for more than 12 hours.

I just came here to ask about BitInstant. I have used them before and it was indeed 'instant', but I did $1200 in deposits with them yesterday and I still haven't received anything from them! Nor have they responded to my support email.

I have recently suffered from the same problem, I thought it was caused by writing a check rather than depositing cash directly, but I could be wrong.

I paid by cash on Wednesday and received my coins in <20 minutes from the time I deposited. Today I deposited (<$1000) by check, and I haven't received my coins yet, for 3 hours now.

I have also received exactly one email regarding my recent transaction, that is my invoice to take to the bank from TrustCash.

Does anybody happen to know what the matter is? Who should I contact here?

Hey,

Your issue is you wrote a check, now we have to wait 3 days until it clears. It's not TrustCASH for nothing 

The customer in the newbies thread and I have been speaking via email.

Thanks!

Charlie

Ah. That makes sense. I don't need the coins immediately, I can wait.

Is that business days or just (regular?) days? Will I receive the coins on Wednesday or Monday?

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

So, on the Newbies thread someone posted (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15958.msg983040#msg983040) regarding an issue of not getting their coins for more than 12 hours.

I just came here to ask about BitInstant. I have used them before and it was indeed 'instant', but I did $1200 in deposits with them yesterday and I still haven't received anything from them! Nor have they responded to my support email.

I have recently suffered from the same problem, I thought it was caused by writing a check rather than depositing cash directly, but I could be wrong.

I paid by cash on Wednesday and received my coins in <20 minutes from the time I deposited. Today I deposited (<$1000) by check, and I haven't received my coins yet, for 3 hours now.

I have also received exactly one email regarding my recent transaction, that is my invoice to take to the bank from TrustCash.

Does anybody happen to know what the matter is? Who should I contact here?

Hey,

Your issue is you wrote a check, now we have to wait 3 days until it clears. It's not TrustCASH for nothing 

The customer in the newbies thread and I have been speaking via email.

Thanks!

Charlie

Ah. That makes sense. I don't need the coins immediately, I can wait.

Is that business days or just (regular?) days? Will I receive the coins on Wednesday or Monday?

Hey,

Ok, but please use cash next time, and let us know when you do.

We operate 24/7 so as soon as it clears, we will send the coins.

Im sending you a PM, pelase read ASAP

Charlie

[Gladamas]

So, on the Newbies thread someone posted (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15958.msg983040#msg983040) regarding an issue of not getting their coins for more than 12 hours.

I just came here to ask about BitInstant. I have used them before and it was indeed 'instant', but I did $1200 in deposits with them yesterday and I still haven't received anything from them! Nor have they responded to my support email.

I have recently suffered from the same problem, I thought it was caused by writing a check rather than depositing cash directly, but I could be wrong.

I paid by cash on Wednesday and received my coins in <20 minutes from the time I deposited. Today I deposited (<$1000) by check, and I haven't received my coins yet, for 3 hours now.

I have also received exactly one email regarding my recent transaction, that is my invoice to take to the bank from TrustCash.

Does anybody happen to know what the matter is? Who should I contact here?

Hey,

Your issue is you wrote a check, now we have to wait 3 days until it clears. It's not TrustCASH for nothing 

The customer in the newbies thread and I have been speaking via email.

Thanks!

Charlie

Ah. That makes sense. I don't need the coins immediately, I can wait.

Is that business days or just (regular?) days? Will I receive the coins on Wednesday or Monday?

Hey,

Ok, but please use cash next time, and let us know when you do.

We operate 24/7 so as soon as it clears, we will send the coins.

Im sending you a PM, pelase read ASAP

Charlie

I'll definitely pay with cash next time. 

So, does it take about three business days for the check to clear?
(Also, responded to your PM.)

[Gareth Nelson]

Great job guys. This will fill one major hurdle in Bitcoin which is the difficulty in actually getting Bitcoins.

Thanks 

Now if we could have the opposite. Go into Walmart with Bitcoins and exchange them for dollars you would have the perfect setup for wire transfers of money that could instantly compete with Western Union.

At least bit-pay can do a direct deposit of cash from BTC...

Should have that launched within 4 weeks or so.

Any chance there is an update?  Not being pushy with the time frame, just very excited!

We have something coming but I can't go into full details just yet

[cbeast]

Great job guys. This will fill one major hurdle in Bitcoin which is the difficulty in actually getting Bitcoins.

Thanks  

Now if we could have the opposite. Go into Walmart with Bitcoins and exchange them for dollars you would have the perfect setup for wire transfers of money that could instantly compete with Western Union.

At least bit-pay can do a direct deposit of cash from BTC...

Should have that launched within 4 weeks or so.

Any chance there is an update?  Not being pushy with the time frame, just very excited!

We have something coming but I can't go into full details just yet

If you are able to use Bitcoin to send remittance through payment centers and banks, then it will add an order of magnitude of legitimacy to Bitcoin. Before long we'll be seeing Bitpay at pawn shops.

[frankendoodle]

I've seen it mentioned before on this thread that people outside of the US can still pay through Walmarts if they're available in their country, is this correct? Does anyone know if this would work in England within the ASDA stores? (Since they're a subsidiary of Walmart).

[imanikin]

If you are able to use Bitcoin to send remittance through payment centers and banks, then it will add an order of magnitude of legitimacy to Bitcoin. Before long we'll be seeing Bitpay at pawn shops.

With the current fee structure, i think it will be a long time before Bitcoin, not to mention Bit-Pay, is widely accepted.

It's simply too expensive to convert fiat to Bitcoin, not to mention too complicated and time-consuming for the average consumer. So, even if pawn shops accept B, it's not cost-effective for the consumer to pay in B instead of paper, credit cards, and other current devils we already know.

Right now, there are so many expensive middlemen, such as BitInstant, Bit-pay, etcetera, that B is more costly to use than credit cards, not to mention cash.

Calculate for yourself how ridiculously expensive it is just to get fiat in your pocket to an xchange via this CVS/Walmart/blahBlah method. You might win OR lose due to the large xchange rate fluctuations. Plus, unlike paper, it's not anonymous whatsoever...

Due to these costs, i am done with using large xchanges to buy B, unless i absolutely have to.

In the existing environment, we simply replace expensive middlemen like credit card companies, with new expensive middlemen, such as Bitinstant, ZipZap, BitPay, bitcoin xchanges, etc.

The governments are allowing it, because the average consumer would have to be a fool to use B instead of fiat, and pay the Bitcoin middlemen. So, B isn't a threat to fiat now, or in the foreseeable future. IIIFFF and WHEN it ever becomes one, the governments will just make it so that the middlemen have to charge even higher fees to xchange fiat to B...

Until i can get paid in B, i would only buy B privately, and you all know that's not easy, cheap or convenient either for most people. There isn't a private exchanger within 100's of kliks of me.

Good luck with widespread adoption given the current xchange middlemen! 

[justusranvier]

With the current fee structure, i think it will be a long time before Bitcoin, not to mention Bit-Pay, is widely accepted.

It's simply too expensive to convert fiat to Bitcoin, not to mention too complicated and time-consuming for the average consumer. So, even if pawn shops accept B, it's not cost-effective for the consumer to pay in B instead of paper, credit cards, and other current devils we already know.

Right now, there are so many expensive middlemen, such as BitInstant, Bit-pay, etcetera, that B is more costly to use than credit cards, not to mention cash.

Calculate for yourself how ridiculously expensive it is just to get fiat in your pocket to an xchange via this CVS/Walmart/blahBlah method. You might win OR lose due to the large xchange rate fluctuations. Plus, unlike paper, it's not anonymous whatsoever...

Due to these costs, i am done with using large xchanges to buy B, unless i absolutely have to.

In the existing environment, we simply replace expensive middlemen like credit card companies, with new expensive middlemen, such as Bitinstant, ZipZap, BitPay, bitcoin xchanges, etc.

The governments are allowing it, because the average consumer would have to be a fool to use B instead of fiat, and pay the Bitcoin middlemen. So, B isn't a threat to fiat now, or in the foreseeable future. IIIFFF and WHEN it ever becomes one, the governments will just make it so that the middlemen have to charge even higher fees to xchange fiat to B...

Until i can get paid in B, i would only buy B privately, and you all know that's not easy, cheap or convenient either for most people. There isn't a private exchanger within 100's of kliks of me.

Good luck with widespread adoption given the current xchange middlemen! 

The developing world is the key. There are a lot of people who don't have access to modern banking and/or are getting gouged by remittance services. Once bitcoins start flowing into those countries all of a sudden they'll have the ability to purchase products and services from overseas they couldn't before and that's how exporters in the developed countries start getting paid in bitcoins.

[imanikin]

The developing world is the key. There are a lot of people who don't have access to modern banking and/or are getting gouged by remittance services. Once bitcoins start flowing into those countries all of a sudden they'll have the ability to purchase products and services from overseas they couldn't before and that's how exporters in the developed countries start getting paid in bitcoins.

Not likely, i think. "Bitcoins will start flowing into those countries" through the same or similar expensive middlemen. It might not be BitInstant, but some other local one.

So, even if exporters in the developed countries are willing to accept B from the developing world, the average consumer won't be able to afford to buy Bitcoins to spend.

If it's expensive for some of us in the developed world to buy B, it will not "start flowing" to the average consumer in the developing world...

It MIGHT be a new niche value store for the wealthy of both worlds, just as gold and such are today, but not a widespread payment system...

Doesn't seem promising to me. 

[evoorhees]

Stage 1: Bitcoin doesn't have useful systems built for it.

Stage 2: Bitcoin has useful systems, but they are relatively expensive.

Stage 3: Bitcoin has useful systems, and they are relatively cheap.

Stage 4: Bitcoin takes over the world.

We're in Stage 2, building systems where none existed before. Give it time, and you will see prices come down. Bitcoin allows the baseline sending of money to be near-zero cost, and thus it is inevitable that affiliated service providers will tend toward cheaper rates than those available in non-Bitcoin systems.

[Gareth Nelson]

I've seen it mentioned before on this thread that people outside of the US can still pay through Walmarts if they're available in their country, is this correct? Does anyone know if this would work in England within the ASDA stores? (Since they're a subsidiary of Walmart).

I'm in the UK myself and would love to make this work, but i'm not entirely sure where in asda you'd go to make moneygram payments - if you know how to make this work then let me know and we can release a guide.

We are looking into other options for use in the UK, and I am personally pushing this internally as it's an odd feeling not being able to make use of the platform I spend all my time building within my own country.

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

In the existing environment, we simply replace expensive middlemen like credit card companies, with new expensive middlemen, such as Bitinstant, ZipZap, BitPay, bitcoin xchanges, etc.

Until i can get paid in B, i would only buy B privately, and you all know that's not easy, cheap or convenient either for most people. There isn't a private exchanger within 100's of kliks of me.

That isn't true.  Private doesn't have to mean local.  We sell bitcoins at 1% BELOW MtGox's last.  Plus you avoid slippage and exchange fees.     What was that about not easy or cheap or convenient?

Please discuss your own service on your own thread. We need to keep this thread on topic for support issues.

As our company gets larger we can lower rates. Understand that we run a legal and large operation by bridging the gap between fiat and Bitcoin, which is not cheap. Most fee's go to our processors and lawyers. Your not running a legal operation, therefore when you do high volume the bank will shut you down and can force you to give up all your customer data, since you don't keep an AML and KYC Manual nor are FinCEN regulated.

We legally, keep our customers private and give them A+ premium service.

-Charlie

[TangibleCryptography]

Your not running a legal operation, therefore when you do high volume the bank will shut you down and can force you to give up all your customer data, since you don't keep an AML and KYC Manual nor are FinCEN regulated.

I will leave the thread but I have to refute this falsehood.  FinCEN has not made any declaration that Bitcoin is a currency.  As such the purchase of bitcoins hasn't been determined to be a currency exchange.  We intentionally limited the scope of our business to not be classified as a "money transmitter".  We don't issue stored value cards, money orders, or offer third party payment services.  Under FinCEN current definition we are not a money service business and are not required to file as such.

Still he have the highest respect for our clients financial privacy so rather than just accept the status quo we have requested an administrative ruling on our business activities and how it pertains MSB & KYC requirements.  They have not responded yet but are obligated to do so under federal law.  The request for an administrative ruling was sent by certified mail and signed for by an agent of FinCEN.  If FinCEN rules that we are a money services business then we will certainly file as an MSB we have 180 days to make our filing.

While I do not believe bitcoin status will remain undefined forever what matters under the law is the law as currently written and regulated.  If the law changes we will change with it.  Your belief that we need to file as an MSB is just that your personal belief.  What matters is what FinCEN determines and that is why prudently we asked for an administrative ruling to preemptively answer that question.

Stating we are not a legal enterprise is false.  I will give you the benefit of doubt and assume it is due to a lack of information not malicious intent.  We intentionally limited the scope of our operation so as to not be defined as money transmitter.

Still if you want to throw stones in glass houses there is certainly some question on your legal standing as a money transmitters.  A money transmitter requires licensing at the state level in at least 10 states and you have provided no information on your licensing status.

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

since you don't keep an AML and KYC Manual nor are FinCEN regulated

I have to clarify this point.  FinCEN has not made any declaration that Bitcoin is a currency.  We have filed a request for an administrative ruling from FinCEN on the matter.  They have not responded yet but are obligated to do so under federal law.  We are not a money transmitter, we are not a currency exchanger, we are not issuing stored value cards, we don't issue money orders.  Under FinCEN current definition we are not a money service business.  

We purchase Bitcoins and pay our clients.  A gold buyer (or any company engaging in buying assets from the public) isn't a money service business.   No being prudent enterprise we have asked for a definitive answer from FinCEN by requesting an administrative ruling.  If FinCEN rules that we are a money services business then we will certainly file as an MSB.

Stating we are not a legal enterprise is false.  I will assume it due to a lack of information not malicious intent.  We have 180 days to file as an MSB and have asked FinCEN to provide clarification on their definitions.  We have taken all necessary steps to ensure compliance.  We intentionally limited the scope of our operation so as to not be defined as  money transmitter.

The is certainly some question on your legal standing as a money transmitters as that requires not just an MSB registration but licensing in at least ten states.

Wether or not Bitcoin is a currency, your still doing MSB related activities.

Your required to register as an MSB, keep an up to date AML Manual, attend BSA training, file SAR's, ect.

I haven't seen you at any BSA trainings yet.

Bitinstant, LLC (and her parent company) is licensed by the New York State Superintendent of Banks pursuant to article 9-A of the Banking Law.
Bitinstant, LLC (and her parent company) is registered with the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCen) as a Money Service Business (MSB).
and is also a proud member of the Financial Service Centers of America (FiSCA).

Additionally, Chase, Citibank, BoA, and Wells Fargo know what we do regarding Bitcoin. Your BoA account will be shut down as soon as they catch wind, as will Western Union. The legalities of allowing random people depositing into your business accounts is very debatable.

Look, Im not putting down your business. Im just saying that if your doing actual volume, you need to get your shit together because you cannot fly under the radar. Bitcoiners will depend on you and when you can't come thru, they will hand your ass to the vultures.

I'd be happy to share any knowledge I have with you, we have an attorney who works for us full time and we can help you put together an AML manual.

We're all friends here, competition is a good thing bro.

-Charlie

[TangibleCryptography]

Wether or not Bitcoin is a currency, your still doing MSB related activities.

Please state the MSB regulated activity we are engaged in?  

Your required to register as an MSB, keep an up to date AML Manual, attend BSA training, file SAR's, ect.

Those are requirements of an MSB which we assert we are not.  It is up to FinCEN not you to make that determination and we have formally filed to have them make such a determination.  If they determine our activity falls under the scope of an MSB we have every intention of filing.

The legalities of allowing random people depositing into your business accounts is very debatable.

So you have ceased your arrangement with TrustCash  (which allows "random people to deposit funds" into their business account that they then forward to your business account)?

Look, Im not putting down your business. Im just saying that if your doing actual volume, you need to get your shit together because you cannot fly under the radar. Bitcoiners will depend on you and when you can't come thru, they will hand your ass to the vultures.

No you are attempting to undermine a competitor and I am not your "bro".   We have filed with THE DEFINITIVE source, FinCEN.  It is their determination not yours that matters.   We are fully compliant with the law.  Either they will determine our business activity does not make us an MSB in which case filing provides no tangible benefit or they will determine our activity does make us an MSB in which case we will file.  It is their determination to make and thus we have asked formally for them to make that determination.

I have deleted the post which caused you to go off spouting lies about competitors.   I request that you either either state definitively state (quoting MSB regulations) which MSB activity we are engaged in or cease your false and unsubstantiated accusations.

Before "helping" competitors maybe you should take some of your own advice.   Please post your NY state money transmitter license number.  You ARE engaged in the transmission of funds for a third party making you a money transmitter in most states.  That requires state licensing in at least ten states.  I am sure you have those licenses and just didn't want to clutter your website up with them.

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

Wether or not Bitcoin is a currency, your still doing MSB related activities.

Please state the MSB regulated activity we are engaged in?  

Your required to register as an MSB, keep an up to date AML Manual, attend BSA training, file SAR's, ect.

Those are requirements of an MSB which we assert we are not.  It is up to FinCEN not you to make that determination and we have formally filed to have them make such a determination.  If they determine our activity falls under the scope of an MSB we have every intention of filing.

The legalities of allowing random people depositing into your business accounts is very debatable.

Which is why you don't don't partner with TrustCash which allows "random people to deposit funds into their business account"?

Look, Im not putting down your business. Im just saying that if your doing actual volume, you need to get your shit together because you cannot fly under the radar. Bitcoiners will depend on you and when you can't come thru, they will hand your ass to the vultures.

No you are attempting to undermine a competitor and I am not your "bro".   We have filed with THE DEFINITIVE source.  FinCEN.  It is their determination not yours that matters.   We are fully compliant with the law.  

I have deleted the post which caused you to go off spouting lies about competitors.   I request that you either either state definitively (quoting MSB regulations) which MSB activity we are engaged in or cease your false and unsubstantiated accusations.

Before you go "helping" competitors maybe you should take some of your own advice.   Please post your NY state money transmitter license.  You are engaged in the transmission of funds for a third party.  You are required to to be licensed in at least ten states.  I am sure you have those licenses and just didn't want to clutter your website up with them.

Dude, relax.

Your taking this way to personally, I'm trying to help you here and make sure you don't get shut down.

Yes, our parent company (We're closing a VC round and can't give that info yet) is licensed in over 20 states. We will be announcing it within 2 weeks or so.

Does BoA know your accepting cash from customers directly? Do you know who your customers are?
Yes, we partnered with TrustCash because they have written permission from the banks to do what we do.

Does Western Union know what you do?

Does your personal bank know your sending ACH and wire's to people whom you have no idea who they are?

Let's not debate this here, feel free to email me at charlie@bitinstant.com and I will share with you some of our knowledge.
Again, this is not my personal knowledge but of our attorneys.

-Charlie

[boonies4u]

If you are able to use Bitcoin to send remittance through payment centers and banks, then it will add an order of magnitude of legitimacy to Bitcoin. Before long we'll be seeing Bitpay at pawn shops.

Due to these costs, i am done with using large xchanges to buy B, unless i absolutely have to.

I haven't used Bit-Pay or Bit-Instant so far. I'm certainly considering using them to pre-order a Jally, due to the importance of timing. Just because certain businesses and infrastructure are set up as of now, does not mean that you have to use them.

I am actually surprised you started off with exchanges to buy BTC. Is that common nowadays?

[Stephen Gornick]

Stage 1: Bitcoin doesn't have useful systems built for it.

Stage 2: Bitcoin has useful systems, but they are relatively expensive.

Stage 3: Bitcoin has useful systems, and they are relatively cheap.

Stage 4: Bitcoin takes over the world.

We're in Stage 2, building systems where none existed before. Give it time, and you will see prices come down. Bitcoin allows the baseline sending of money to be near-zero cost, and thus it is inevitable that affiliated service providers will tend toward cheaper rates than those available in non-Bitcoin systems.

In comparison, a merchant accepting credit card pays 2 to 3% in merchant fees (unless in travel or other high risk category where 8% or more is common) and the merchant still is exposed chargebacks, and doesn't get to spend the money for a couple days.

While I might pay several percent to buy bitcoins using fiat because I want them right now, the merchant can share the cost savings from bitcoin by offering a discount over fiat when accepting bitcoin as payment.   That is already happening in a couple instances.  Hopefully we'll see more of that.

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

Stage 1: Bitcoin doesn't have useful systems built for it.

Stage 2: Bitcoin has useful systems, but they are relatively expensive.

Stage 3: Bitcoin has useful systems, and they are relatively cheap.

Stage 4: Bitcoin takes over the world.

We're in Stage 2, building systems where none existed before. Give it time, and you will see prices come down. Bitcoin allows the baseline sending of money to be near-zero cost, and thus it is inevitable that affiliated service providers will tend toward cheaper rates than those available in non-Bitcoin systems.

In comparison, a merchant accepting credit card pays 2 to 3% in merchant fees (unless in travel or other high risk category where 8% or more is common) and the merchant still is exposed chargebacks, and doesn't get to spend the money for a couple days.

While I might pay several percent to buy bitcoins using fiat because I want them right now, the merchant can share the cost savings from bitcoin by offering a discount over fiat when accepting bitcoin as payment.   That is already happening in a couple instances.  Hopefully we'll see more of that.

+1

You always say the right things Stephen