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Author Topic: Texas Hold'em and Omaha/Omaha8 Poker Room - NL, Limit, Potlimit games  (Read 74098 times)
TheBitMan
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July 22, 2011, 06:59:03 PM
 #441

These responses from Hippich are PRICELESS.....


Actually, I have re-evaluated playing online poker from the lack of security.... I actually wont really be playing any more online poker for now... and I hadnt played online poker for years until bitcoin came along...

I never advertised any other sites, and I dont want anything for free.... You closed me account because I asked about the bot, and I never planned to deposit any more money....


I have seen people comment and the ways he responds is extremely unprofessional for simple questions. Also I just saw his bot in a room.
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TheBitMan
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July 22, 2011, 07:05:26 PM
 #442

If you are new to this site..do not use it. When you go to hit bet or raise (after you click it more than 10 times) it makes you fold. Which probably helps him win with all his bots.
I never say a site is bad unless I have used it. And I have used this..it is awful save your self the time and bits. - TheBitMan
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July 22, 2011, 07:44:29 PM
 #443

I would like to note two things.

One, NaturalOrder8 isn't the best spokesman in this situation and although his intentions in this bot case are good, he is insufficient in his abilities to portray the issues in a tasteful. NaturalOrder8 seems to think he has evidence of a bot being used. If a user by the name of StarTheory is indeed actively playing on a large number of tables, this could very well be true but does not prove so. However even if StarTheory is a bot that does not mean hippich is the owner of said bot.

Two, hippich does seem to have good intentions in providing updates for Betco.in, but obviously good intentions are not keeping his costumers happy. Though, that does not imply he is obligated to. He has the right to run his website any way he wants; bots, scams and all if he so chooses.

That being said, hippich, I recommend that you do answer NaturalOrder8's inquiry in a professional manner as I'm sure he does speak for a greater whole, even if he does represent it poorly. Look into the possibility of StarTheory being a bot and condemn the accusations being put against you. If you do not do this, people such as TheBitMan may begin to see your website in a new light and feel as if you have something to hide. You do have the potential to lose users.

Bugs, bots, and arguing aside however Betco.in is still a halfway decent site and is definitely not a blatant scam.

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July 22, 2011, 07:53:39 PM
 #444

x0Jakeyboy0x, his intention is not to get answer, but start holy war. I already pointed several time online in chat that StarTheory is not a bot. I answered here that too. And if you do not believe my word.. well.. I doubt there is anything else that can prove you =)

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July 22, 2011, 08:08:55 PM
 #445

x0Jakeyboy0x, his intention is not to get answer, but start holy war. I already pointed several time online in chat that StarTheory is not a bot. I answered here that too. And if you do not believe my word.. well.. I doubt there is anything else that can prove you =)

I will admit NaturalOrder8 does have a way about him. If you feel you've addressed the concern then you've done your share.

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July 22, 2011, 11:03:39 PM
 #446

I don't understand something. Well, a few things, but we'll start with the biggest one.

We have quite a lot of BTC on the site right now. Like, a whole lot. I'm not going to give ranges, but, it's definitely more than enough to tempt anyone.

If we were going to scam people...

Why would we resort to anything sneaky? Why would we be, to reference another person, looking for any reason to close an account and confiscate money?

We could close the site and run off with the money, and nothing could be done about it. And I WILL tell you that the amount of BTC we would get from this is much, much higher than we've earned in rake. Much higher than any bot could ever win for us.

So... why would we bother sneaking around like this? If this was a scam, why would we bother doing anything but just taking the money and running?

Why do we essentially beg our users to keep as little money on the site as possible, so we don't have to be responsible for such a large amount of money, if we want to do these things?

That's the first thing. That's the thing no one has ever been able to explain, about any poker site, in any "rigtard" debate. Why bother with the pocket change when you can just take the gold?



Secondly...

Why does everyone assume that bots have magic powers? That they are somehow able to win at poker 100% of the time? Because they don't. They're universally terrible at nearly every game. Why in the world would we spend the insane effort involved in making a winning poker bot to unleash it on... a bitcoin poker site with an average of three tables running at any time? Why not use this magical thing on PokerStars, or really anywhere where you could actually, you know, make money from it?

And if you're implying that this alleged bot that we're running has been given magic powers that allow it to see other players' hands or the future board cards - Why would we run a BOT to do that? Why not just. You know. Give ourselves those powers, and win money that way? It'd be way more fun that way, at the very least.

And the code is open source, too. What, do we have a private fork that implements these features? Yeah, wasting time on managing a separate codebase for cheating sounds like an excellent use of our development time.

Where do we fit that in, and still find time to write patches for the public codebase? Why even bother with the open source if we're going to do that?



You'll have to do better than "No, it's really a bot, I swear, just WATCH it" and "He left a substantial amount of time after I said something on an internet forum, that PROVES it!!" to get anywhere with this.

If you don't want to play on our site, that's cool. I won't try to sugarcoat it, we have a bunch of issues with the client. Stuff is still broken. It's totally reasonable that you wouldn't want to play here over Stars, for example, if you have access to other sites.

But we're paying people to fix it, out of the rake we collect. We're working to fix it ourselves, and we're throwing money at anyone who wants to help. And we're sharing the results of that with the world.

In the long run, this site is going to make us more money than we could get by scamming. Just like Stars doesn't have an incentive to cut and run, or rig their games, because honest games will make them more money in the long run. We don't need to rig it. Honest games pay well enough, and as a bonus, I can look at myself in the mirror in the morning.

I used to play poker professionally. A lot of what I get out of this is emotional. I'm happy to be working on the most advanced open source poker software out there, I'm happy that I am, in some way, helping the online poker community. The money is nice, I won't lie, but there's more to it than that for me. I'm not interested in becoming famous for starting the next UltimateBet.


This is probably just a waste of time - I kind of expect this to fall on deaf ears - but, well, maybe not. I'm not going to let myself be trolled further, though.

online poker, bitcoin style - https://betco.in/
feeling tipsy? 1Q7ktWPwu4Q8MivKdmYxnmsGaBeauMTGwU
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July 23, 2011, 01:30:33 AM
 #447

You clearly don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about. You want to talk about insults to intelligence, it's the fact that you continue to make these arguments without any basis for your claims, and act as though they should be so obvious to anyone.

This is the last time I am going to respond to you, because I'm almost sure you're trolling.

By point:

Not a "dude". And "It's clear as day" is not, in fact, a compelling argument of any sort.

You're right. We would. We'd also have the easiest time running off with the entire balance of the site, or superusing. That, too, is not in any way a compelling argument.

That is correct, a bot is only as good as its writer. I find it interesting that you point this out, because you also claim that a bot has an "insurmountable edge", and clearly that would only be true for the absolute best human players. And the skill involved in writing a bot to any level of skill is orders of magnitude higher than learning to play at that level. Have you ever tried? I have. I gave up a thousand hours later.

This is a non-argument. You are arguing that a bot with access to data that players do not have would have an advantage over those players, though you seem to be quite unimaginative in how you would use this access. Hand history data? Really? Have you ever heard of a HUD? Humans can do exactly what you describe with one of many publicly available software packages, though only for hands they legitimately have the data for.

But if we're moving into the realm of cheating, why in the world would one go to all the trouble of complex opponent modeling? Just give the bot access to the future board cards and allow it to see player hands. A monkey could write a bot that could win under those conditions.

At that point, though, why not just superuse? Why let a computer have all the fun?

Saying that it's an "insult to 'our' intelligence" is also not a compelling argument against my statement. Please provide examples of the winning bots that are so commonly used, and explain why they have an insurmountable edge. The things you named are not arguments in favor of this, as they apply equally well to human players using HUD software. And while you could make the same argument there, you'd be laughed out of any serious poker discussion.

Oh. I'm sorry. There is even less traffic on the site than I said. That sure does destroy my point, which was that it would be really silly to spend an enormous effort to write a winning bot to play on a site that has no traffic instead of taking it somewhere useful.

Yes. There were bots on Stars. They played games we do not spread, and won largely by collusion and volume. They were not run by the site administration, but rather individual players. They were eventually found by large amounts of data mining by interested players that presented statistical evidence for their claims.

And Stars being inaccessible is news to me, I logged on just last night in fact. I mean, if you mean that US players cannot play on Stars for real money? Sure. But the US is not the world, and there are probably ways around that anyway.


Also, that's cute. You claim that terse responses indicate guilt, then when you get a substantial one, that, too, indicates guilt.

Please fly away, troll.

online poker, bitcoin style - https://betco.in/
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darkwon
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July 23, 2011, 01:26:25 PM
 #448

wow this naturalorder guy is so annoying, could we please ban him?

Every day he makes new accusations, just 2 days ago he accused me of colluding on your site in an extremely rude and harsh tone. Next day I saw him saying the exact same thing to another person. It's not even funny anymore, please don't waste your dev time replying to him.

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July 23, 2011, 06:30:30 PM
 #449

Quote
All I did was use up my timer and bet out small amounts when it was my turn. I did not do anything wrong or directly break any rules that were stated anywhere on the website.

Now tell me exactly how me taking my time betting using the timer on the site "abusing players"? Don't you mean "abusing your profits"? Am I not supposed to trying "abuse" other players and pressure them so I can win? What is this some poker fairytale?
 
If I'm playing to win, it's my job to make the position of the other players as uncomfortable as possible. You want me to play so that people like me on the site? Are you joking?
IT'S BAD ENOUGH THERE ARE CHEATING TAG TEAMS THERE ALL THE TIME PLAYING.

What rule do any other sites have regarding using their timer to the full extent and betting out in small amounts? If I have broken any rule, I would not be complaining. I apparently got on the admin's nerves for slowing down the rate and hands/hour along with a few players that couldn't handle the play-style of mine and cried about it to the admin on IRC. IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE TO ME OR ANYONE ELSE THAT GREED WAS THE REASON FOR YOUR TANTRUM.

I NEVER logged on and played on multiple accounts, yet it is the FIRST THING ADMINS ACCUSES ME OF WRONG DOING PROCEEDED BY A THREAT TO CLOSE MY ACCOUNTS WITH FUNDS IN THEM. Admins then comes in and basically says here on the thread that I"m lucky I got the money out before I posted this while making some lame excuse about how if I actually did multi-logged then he would have ALREADY held the money. YES WE KNOW YOU WISH YOU HAD THE CHANCE TO KEEP MY MONEY. YOU JUST WANT AN EXCUSE TO DO IT. NO DIFFERENT THAN POLICE LOOKING FOR AN EXCUSE TO LOCK YOU UP OR SHOOT YOU FOR RESISTING ARREST. HOW PATHETIC YOU ARE. ABUSING THE LITTLE TINNNNNNNY BIT OF POWER YOU HAVE AS AN ADMIN OF A POKER WEB SITE THAT FILLS UP MAYBE TWO FULL TABLES ON A GOOD DAY. YOU ARE THE REASON WHY BITCOIN WAS CREATED AND THE CENTRAL BANKS BEHAVE THE WAY THEY DO. PATHETIC PARASITE.

if you are someone who knows how to critically think for yourself and not some drone, you would obviously see where I'm coming from. And I know people here will agree with me on this. I'm 100% not on the wrong here. Not even a little bit. Otherwise I would not be taking such extreme side. Consider this a valuable lesson in karma that you spoke so highly of in your previous posts.

The admin has proven time and time again on this very thread how childish and limited he is in his capacity is to think beyond justifying his obvious shortcomings in common sense.

I WOULD STAY FAR AWAY AS POSSIBLE FROM THIS PLACE IF YOU LIKE KEEPING YOUR MONEY.

NaturalOrder you deserve to lose your account.. I already stated multiple times that this is the most Facist poker site ever and you still played on it. LOL.

Not gonna take your word on bots playing there now, but I know for a fact that there are almost always player team of 3-4 players most of the time colluding on hands on the table with most players. Bot are probably unlikely and unnecessary. The team members also change their names all the time, but I can easily tell by their play-style because of the limited number of usual suspects on the site due to low traffic.  I can so easily tell these people are trapping fishes, it's laughable. Only reason why people don't see this is because you ARE the fish or you choose to ignore this - looking at you greedy admins.

Also, saying something like "running the business is more profitable so why would they steal" is like saying "Gov only exist to serve the people, so why would it tried to steal from them" It's called because you can and you have the incentive to perform such heinous acts behind the close doors for your own greed. Just saying you are looking at it long term does not provide any logical evidence or reason that proves your company honest in any way. It just provides us with ONE logical reason you MAY NOT act such way, but doesn't guaranty it in any shape or form. You just want people to believe that your company operates with such morals.




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July 24, 2011, 09:47:53 PM
 #450

OK, everybody settle the fuck down.

Is there some actual evidence that this Startheory is a bot? If there was, I somehow missed it.

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July 26, 2011, 04:41:02 AM
 #451

OK, everybody settle the fuck down.

Is there some actual evidence that this Startheory is a bot? If there was, I somehow missed it.

no
 bots aren't programmed to jam every hand and lose 50 coins in 1 day
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July 26, 2011, 06:53:45 PM
 #452

The thing is a bot... im watching it now.... Its a bot, go watch for yourself

1)  I have done lots of research on bots, played many of them, and can spot a bot relatively easily.  I will watch betco.in and report findings

2)  if you out a bot on here, they will obv just create another anonymous account under a different name

3)  I would bet it's not a bot before doing any research, in that the relatively low rent state of bitcoin poker would be a pretty labor intensive project for almost zero (or negative) reward.

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August 03, 2011, 02:30:33 AM
 #453

Good work, hippich! This leaves me with an interesting question: Do I now owe you 10 BTC for identifying your own thief? I'll go with whatever the community says, but I'd prefer to make it my first contribution to a pool for paying similar bounties in the future, which I may start later today. Thefts like this will only become more common as the community grows.



editout



hippich
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August 04, 2011, 11:26:26 PM
 #454

Just pushed S'n'G tourney code. Please help test. Right now there is scheduled single Free Roll SNG with 1 chip prize pool.

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August 06, 2011, 06:32:30 AM
 #455

your sites a ghost town now dude. you ran it into the ground with your horrible style of management to legitimate player concerns over cheating/bots/etc. its a shame you had one of the best poker sites for bitcoin but now place is empty.
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August 06, 2011, 01:49:28 PM
 #456

TL;DR;
this is just seasonal drop in site traffic due drop in bitcoin popularity


Long:

Trayber, problem with cheating/bots/etc (what is etc in this case?) was only with few players (possible same person behind usernames). Real players who play with real money and not register accounts just to bash admins and other players, do not have problems on the site.

Just an example: NaturalOrder8 in one of chats on btcontilt.com asked Weaver (support guy on the website) to go fuck himself after Weaver tried to resolve issue.... Great respect for Weaver's patience.. This kind of players will have "problems" on any website.

Just like before bitcoins skyrocketed, there is no a lot of traffic going on right now. That's why you see less players playing. http://www.google.com/trends?q=bitcoin&ctab=0&geo=all&date=2011&sort=0

Traffic dropped to April levels and my site is still first on google for bitcoin poker. As you can see, interest in bitcoins right now is 25% of what it was when site was "best poker site" =)

I bet dropped price of bitcoin also contributed into it - I've seen huge withdrawal requests, possible from players, who wanted to cash out their bitcoins..

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August 06, 2011, 08:43:52 PM
 #457

This is "ghost town":


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August 06, 2011, 09:20:31 PM
 #458

Just an example: NaturalOrder8 in one of chats on btcontilt.com asked Weaver (support guy on the website) to go fuck himself after Weaver tried to resolve issue.... Great respect for Weaver's patience.. This kind of players will have "problems" on any website.
NatOrder and I eventually resolved the issue he was having. He apologized to the chat room for his outburst. It was simply a matter of miscommunication along with a series of unfortunate errors.

O.o
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August 22, 2011, 12:38:36 AM
 #459

Hello,

So I deposited a small sum into betco.in and on Friday I won about 25 bitcoins....

I have requested to withdraw 10 and another withdraw request to withdraw 5.

The with draw requests were done quickly!  Great DEAL!
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August 22, 2011, 12:51:32 AM
 #460

kabevinetto, no, I am not on vacation and I've been in IRC last time on Friday...

I am sorry for delay, really busy weekend. Glad you posted it here - so I noticed a lot of unprocessed withdrawals. Just processed all of them. Let me know if you will not receive yours.

Also, you said you contacted me and did not receive response, how did you contact me? Via e-mail posted on site?

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