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Author Topic: Texas Hold'em and Omaha/Omaha8 Poker Room - NL, Limit, Potlimit games  (Read 78381 times)
hippich
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August 16, 2010, 06:51:57 PM
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August 16, 2010, 07:05:15 PM
 #2

Are you based in the US?
(I'll play when it is up)

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August 16, 2010, 07:08:54 PM
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I'm game, for sure.
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August 16, 2010, 07:16:57 PM
 #4

I'm in for testing for sure. Keep us updated.

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August 16, 2010, 08:23:28 PM
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Are you based in the US?
(I'll play when it is up)

right now i live in us, but company or server - nope. =) if it will become too serious - tor will save us =)) but i doubt it will be necessary

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August 29, 2010, 05:14:37 AM
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Just want to let know everyone who tried it already - I've fixed few issues with queuing ajax requests and now it should be way faster. Also fixed anoying flash of previous cards before dealing new cards.

since there is not so much people yet, let's schedule time to play. I am on GMT-5 time zone.

for everyone: if you want to be beta tester - let me know via email pavel@yepcorp.com (better) or PM (not so good =)).
There is no option to play with "play" money, but there is table with as low as 0.02-0.04 bets.

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August 29, 2010, 05:26:49 AM
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Just added https:// support just to make sure it's not so easy to sniff traffic. =)

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August 29, 2010, 06:48:18 AM
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Cool. I'm going to be sitting at a table for a little while. It would be neat if there was a button people could press to "poke" me and make a beep or something because I can leave it open all the time, but I won't be monitoring it constantly.

I got a certificate warning, but that happens to me a lot. Am I doing something wrong?

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August 29, 2010, 07:08:17 AM
 #9

I just realized that there is probably a noise when someone sits down or a hand is dealt or something. I had my headphones plugged in, but not in my ears when I tried it out before.

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August 29, 2010, 01:01:19 PM
 #10

Just added https:// support just to make sure it's not so easy to sniff traffic. =)

I tried to transfer 2.00 btc to the game but they never showed up in the balance on the poker site.

https is good
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August 29, 2010, 01:05:09 PM
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Cool. I'm going to be sitting at a table for a little while. It would be neat if there was a button people could press to "poke" me and make a beep or something because I can leave it open all the time, but I won't be monitoring it constantly.

I got a certificate warning, but that happens to me a lot. Am I doing something wrong?

Certificate is self-signed so it's good only for keeping traffic crypted and it will complain that browser can't confirm identity of certificate owner, becuase it's never was issues by root certificate issuers =).

as for "poke" - as you found already - it makes sound when someone joined same table as you. =)

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August 29, 2010, 01:06:54 PM
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Just added https:// support just to make sure it's not so easy to sniff traffic. =)

I tried to transfer 2.00 btc to the game but they never showed up in the balance on the poker site.

https is good

I see your transaction in Bitcoin, but not in poker room. Did you pressed "refresh" link in Deposit page? I think it's a bit confusing, so I proably make it refreshing each time you open Deposit page or My  Account page tho..

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August 29, 2010, 01:43:50 PM
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Changed a bit code. Now balance refreshed everytime you access any /user/ page, i.e. My Account, Deposit, Withdrawal for now.

Decided if it will cause load problems, I always can cache on BitCoin Model layer instead forcing user to press "Refresh" everytime. =)

Also, added sorting to table list. Now tables will be sorted by number of people at them. So it will be easier to find table with someone already there =) Just small hack, probbably just for me =)

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August 29, 2010, 10:04:40 PM
 #14

Do you need to have so many tables/gametypes?

Can you add 0.01/0.02 NL?

Is there any rake?

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August 29, 2010, 11:50:01 PM
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Well.. I expect that it will be popular =) So we definatelly need enough tables. =)

I've added .01-.02 table and called it "Instis". If you do not like it - provide better name =))

There is rake in system, but I am trying to turn it off. Will let you know when it will be done.

Also, on a side note, fixed issues with caching content by browser on HTTPS:// pages. Now it should work even faster =)

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August 30, 2010, 01:21:18 AM
 #16

Just added https:// support just to make sure it's not so easy to sniff traffic. =)

I tried to transfer 2.00 btc to the game but they never showed up in the balance on the poker site.

https is good

I see your transaction in Bitcoin, but not in poker room. Did you pressed "refresh" link in Deposit page? I think it's a bit confusing, so I proably make it refreshing each time you open Deposit page or My  Account page tho..

I eventually got it and was able to play, it worked well after that. Not sure about the refresh thing.
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August 30, 2010, 02:06:40 AM
 #17

I've reworked it when you came back so you did not noticed it. %)

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August 30, 2010, 03:02:37 AM
 #18

Brand new table for bitcoin poker room =))


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August 30, 2010, 03:26:25 AM
 #19

Sweet

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August 30, 2010, 05:57:27 AM
 #20

Yes,
I have been playing there too. Things looks like they are coming along nicely. Very good work. Can't wait til it's out of beta and everyone is playing.
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August 30, 2010, 02:05:51 PM
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Yeah, and I lost 10 bitcoins... Although, as usual for me in poker room =)))

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August 30, 2010, 02:43:31 PM
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Just been playing. The general sensation is good, but one small thing kept bugging me, as setting the raise amount manually in the text box would never assume the changed value. If changing using the slide it works ok, though.

The other thing I got is once Insti, which was already there, left while I was playing against LINKOU which had joined after myself, the whole thing slowed down to a crawl eventually killing the flash plugin with it. Might have been unrelated, but hey...
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August 30, 2010, 03:54:39 PM
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Changing value is definitely bug in client. I will look into it once I will get back home from work. As for flash - in theory it's used only to play audio, but I will definitely change this into HTML5 <audio> soon.

I need to setup bugtraq for this project.. %)

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August 31, 2010, 03:40:05 AM
 #24

Fixed issue with manual setting raise amount. Also made slider to act realtime (instead setting value when you finished sliding)

Also implemented buttons with CSS3. Sorry IE8 and previous owners, you will see plain square buttons instead =(

Rearranged buttons as we discussed before, removed these pot, 1/2, etc buttons and made left buttons to be more easy to use. Comments on buttons welcome, since it is first time I work on UI stuff =))



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August 31, 2010, 03:57:06 AM
 #25

Oh, that's much better.

Have you stopped the rake for now?

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August 31, 2010, 04:03:31 AM
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not yet, but i already spoke with creators of poker-network software, and they pointed me to how i can do it. i will work on it tomorrow.

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August 31, 2010, 04:39:15 AM
 #27

Cool. To be clear, I absolutely think you should rake it a little bit when it's good to go. You need money for advertising and promotion and eventually to get it on a good server or even two(?). But while it's in testing it's kind of silly. You'll want to know how to adjust in the future anyway.

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September 01, 2010, 04:01:58 AM
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Cool. To be clear, I absolutely think you should rake it a little bit when it's good to go. You need money for advertising and promotion and eventually to get it on a good server or even two(?). But while it's in testing it's kind of silly. You'll want to know how to adjust in the future anyway.

Hey, I finally did it. And I totally agree with you. =) So from now plays at BP are absolutelly free. (but not forever =))

Any idea what needed to be implemented/fixed before opening it to public? I really like idea of doing tourneys, but it will take a while to code this part. 

Do we need full-fledged profiles, or it's better to keep users anonymous? May be some kind of ratings (but what we should rate here?).

Anyway, I want to fix few nasty bugs, and open it to public finally. And work from there depending on what people want and how. Backend is pretty solid.

Need to shop for good domain name for it. If someone got some idea for domain name - let me know too =)

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September 01, 2010, 09:08:28 AM
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My preference would be keeping things anonymous. Since it's going to start slow, a message about when peak time is would be good.

Security is very important. Both actually being secure and finding a way to convince people that it's true. Honestly I'll play lowish stakes without worrying, but I wouldn't recommend it or play higher until there was a third party review or something. Security should be an ongoing process, too, of course. As it grows hacking it will be more and more lucrative. And the nature of bitcoin is such that once a hack is successful there is no fixing it.

I'm thinking about domain names now, I'll let you know if I think of anything decent.

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September 01, 2010, 10:12:48 AM
 #30

@hippich

I thought of one for you -check your messages  Smiley
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September 01, 2010, 11:06:00 AM
 #31

So, playing a bit more...

'I' call, 'he' raises, 'I'... don't get any action buttons, my time starts counting and I time out. The hand is closed with 'he' winning (everyone folded) and the next hand simply doesn't start. Sound plays fine, messages work fine too, just a lost hand that was actually quite good and no more cards. Good thing it's the micro stakes table!
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September 01, 2010, 12:33:43 PM
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I would suggest doing something different than rake. Maybe a much smaller time charge or even a monthly fee option. i.e. can pay X.99 BTC per mo or have my pots raked.

don't even know if possible.

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September 01, 2010, 12:39:23 PM
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I was thinking -  couldn't this site be marketed as 'produce bitcoins on your computer and play them here' and 'ultimate free play poker site.' Therefore, play would be legal in the US, as this is just fake money.  Of course, we would all know that anyone could buy bitcoins and then cash them out at MtGox, as producing bitcoins is a problem for most.

I thought gambling in japan had a format like this. It is illegal to gamble, but you can buy those pachinko balls for x yen, play, then another store across the street buys them back from you.

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September 01, 2010, 01:05:00 PM
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My preference would be keeping things anonymous. Since it's going to start slow, a message about when peak time is would be good.

Security is very important. Both actually being secure and finding a way to convince people that it's true. Honestly I'll play lowish stakes without worrying, but I wouldn't recommend it or play higher until there was a third party review or something. Security should be an ongoing process, too, of course. As it grows hacking it will be more and more lucrative. And the nature of bitcoin is such that once a hack is successful there is no fixing it.

I'm thinking about domain names now, I'll let you know if I think of anything decent.


Hm. I didn't thought much about security.. I've got idea today in the shower - I think I will setup cron job, which will transfer money regulary to another address(es) keeping only small amount to keep small withdrawals automated. If someone will decide withdraw 10X of what usually gets withdrawn per day, he will get his order in status "Pending" and I will recieve email to check if everything is fine, then transfer money to BP wallet and resubmit his requests.

This way even if someone will get total control over server, disaster will not happen.

As for security in general - I have experience working in this fields from both sides, so it's something i know already. And this server, where it's hosted, is dedicated server and fully in my control. If things will roll, I will move to separate server just for poker room.

But yeah, I like idea start slow. This is something I had in mind too. It's easy and in the same time, will fit better. =)

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September 01, 2010, 01:06:03 PM
 #35

@hippich

I thought of one for you -check your messages  Smiley

Great find!!! Thank you, I will do shopping today! =)

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September 01, 2010, 01:07:47 PM
 #36

So, playing a bit more...

'I' call, 'he' raises, 'I'... don't get any action buttons, my time starts counting and I time out. The hand is closed with 'he' winning (everyone folded) and the next hand simply doesn't start. Sound plays fine, messages work fine too, just a lost hand that was actually quite good and no more cards. Good thing it's the micro stakes table!


This is one of these nasty bugs I mentioned above. This happens when connectivity with server goes bad just for one request. I also got this behivior few times (with other buttons, like fold, raise, call). So it's something I want to fix asap.

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September 01, 2010, 01:11:05 PM
 #37

I was thinking -  couldn't this site be marketed as 'produce bitcoins on your computer and play them here' and 'ultimate free play poker site.' Therefore, play would be legal in the US, as this is just fake money.  Of course, we would all know that anyone could buy bitcoins and then cash them out at MtGox, as producing bitcoins is a problem for most.

I thought gambling in japan had a format like this. It is illegal to gamble, but you can buy those pachinko balls for x yen, play, then another store across the street buys them back from you.

As for rake/monthly fee/donations - will see. If project will roll - we will find out what best fit this community. I have total control over this poker room, so whatever will work best for us I can implement. (It's based on opensource components!)

As for marketing - you are right. I do not want to make bitcoin = dollar. And it's a reason why I want to be completelly separated from any exchanger, just to make sure, it's still "play money".

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September 01, 2010, 07:40:10 PM
 #38

2Insti&semyazza

Regarding this Ad = 2c issue. I've found jpoker replaces identificators "Ad" with "Ax" in order to avoid ads blocking software. And of course, I missed this =)

So what happened - turn card showed (lowest) 2c card image instead of correct Ad card image, since it didn't matched Ad card CSS class.

I will fix this today in the evening.

Thank you for finding these weird bugs!!


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September 02, 2010, 03:04:51 AM
 #39

Fixed bug with wrong Ad card displayed.

Added lock on buttons, so now if you click multiple times on fold/raise/etc buttons, they will send request only once to server. Previously, if you clicked twice on these buttons and server did not responded fast it could generate two separate events and it acted as you clicked same button in next deal.

Fixed some random flashs of cards (which were refered, like you were able to see oponents cards. In reality this is cards from previous deal).

Added credits page, and cool domain name - thank you noagendamarket =)

next "features" will be captcha on login/register pages, password retrieve feature and support for uploadable avatars!

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September 02, 2010, 09:25:29 AM
 #40

I saw myself bet .04 that I didn't think I bet, and then was raised to .04 very quickly (simultaneously? not sure). I think it displayed my opponent's raise in front of both of us.

There should be a clear "sitting out" notice on a player who is now sitting out. Is it changing color for that right now?

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September 02, 2010, 10:33:17 AM
 #41

I guess the dimmer color might be good enough actually.

I noticed that when I use the check boxes the buttons still flash for a sec.

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September 02, 2010, 02:28:34 PM
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I saw myself bet .04 that I didn't think I bet, and then was raised to .04 very quickly (simultaneously? not sure). I think it displayed my opponent's raise in front of both of us.

That's weird, since I think that's exactly what I've fixed. Do you think you can reproduce this "auto" raise behavior? If so, could you make sure to clear cache and try to reproduce it and let me how to do it.

Do you remember if table lagged at this moment?

There should be a clear "sitting out" notice on a player who is now sitting out. Is it changing color for that right now?

Yeah, it change's color of nickname to grey and show you link "sit in" instead nickname. I will look into source to see how it could be done more prominent. I like idea making the whole player area (avatar + nick + everything around inside this greenbox) to be darker.

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September 02, 2010, 03:28:06 PM
 #43

Also, I saw in chat logs you mentioned four colored deck. Could someone explain what this mean? As I understand, we play with one deck on table. So where from four colors should come?

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September 02, 2010, 06:17:09 PM
 #44

Also, I saw in chat logs you mentioned four colored deck. Could someone explain what this mean? As I understand, we play with one deck on table. So where from four colors should come?

Spades are black
Hearts are Red
Clubs are green (not black)
Diamonds are blue (not red)

easier to see flushes, especially if multitabling.

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September 02, 2010, 07:34:41 PM
 #45

These would make it much easier.




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September 03, 2010, 12:52:28 AM
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Ah. Yeah. It's quite possible. Any guidlines regarding this image? Where from it came and could be it used in open source project?


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September 03, 2010, 02:50:38 AM
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Ah. Yeah. It's quite possible. Any guidlines regarding this image? Where from it came and could be it used in open source project?



I grabbed it out of a thread on twoplustwo.com, let me see if I can find anything out.

The cards are very similar or maybe the exact cards as one of poker stars' options. I think they were put in the thread so people could mod their FTP layouts. They seem to simple to copyright to me anyway, but I wouldn't really know.

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September 03, 2010, 05:05:04 AM
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Ah. Yeah. It's quite possible. Any guidlines regarding this image? Where from it came and could be it used in open source project?



I grabbed it out of a thread on twoplustwo.com, let me see if I can find anything out.

The cards are very similar or maybe the exact cards as one of poker stars' options. I think they were put in the thread so people could mod their FTP layouts. They seem to simple to copyright to me anyway, but I wouldn't really know.

Thank you!

My main concern is - this project will be opensourced right after opening project to public, so anyone will be able to grab copy and modify it, use and distribute. So I am concerned about including something what could infringe any other ownerships.

Probably, I will just work on existing card and will try to change their color. But if someone can contribute their graphical work - I will appreciate this =) Otherwise, it will take some time for me. I do better coding, then working with photoshop/GIMP =)

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September 03, 2010, 06:25:02 AM
 #49

I'm not much of a poker player, but I was thinking that a nationwide network of physical poker rooms would be a great way to run a bitcoin/cash exchange.  If set up correctly from an operational standpoint, from the state's perspective they wouldn't have anything to go on, unless of course friendly poker rooms are illegal in that state.
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September 03, 2010, 12:56:31 PM
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Probably, I will just work on existing card and will try to change their color. But if someone can contribute their graphical work - I will appreciate this =) Otherwise, it will take some time for me. I do better coding, then working with photoshop/GIMP =)

Where are the current graphic files stored?
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September 03, 2010, 11:23:48 PM
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Here is uploaded to imagebin.ca - http://imagebin.ca/img/BJD5BjE.png

We need to preserve size and order of cards (at least for now).

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September 04, 2010, 03:14:52 PM
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Here is uploaded to imagebin.ca - http://imagebin.ca/img/BJD5BjE.png

We need to preserve size and order of cards (at least for now).

Ah they are stored in alphabetical order 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 9 A J K Q T. and Ad = Ax   
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September 04, 2010, 08:31:42 PM
 #53

One guy from IRC promised to send tomorrow PSD of their own cards they used in their own poker room. Will see if they are better source to do colors tweaks! Will post it there once I will get my hands on.

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September 05, 2010, 07:02:46 AM
 #54

You probably should post here when you change your server ssl certificate..
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September 05, 2010, 05:48:13 PM
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Ah. sorry. yeah, I've got certificate from CACert.org =)

BTW, they have instructions how to make you browser trust cacert issued certificates by default - http://wiki.cacert.org/BrowserClients

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September 06, 2010, 01:34:42 PM
 #56

Ah. Yeah. It's quite possible. Any guidlines regarding this image? Where from it came and could be it used in open source project?

Is the beta still running ? I will send you an email...


A great source for 'open source' card and table graphics would be the PokerTH 'Styles Gallery' http://www.pokerth.net/styles-gallery.html

Card Decks: http://www.pokerth.net/styles-gallery/card-deck.html ( Nobus 4-color full color card deck, is similar to the above. )

Game Table: http://www.pokerth.net/styles-gallery/game-table.html

Most of the 'packs' are available through deviantART.


Maybe someone could fork pokerTH to create BitTH or BitStars ! Cheesy

"The industry of the integrated spectacle and immaterial command owes me (us all) money." - We do not Forgive. We do not Forget. Expect Revolution Renaissance! for we are all Satoshi now? - youtu.be/G7Z8MMk45U0 - "the multiple and the multiplex!" - Mostly AWOL hunting 4 (Zk-)SNARKS ... youtu.be/Yc18hhM6gUc?t=4m27s - "Beware of Boojum's"!?! - NSFW youtu.be/Wn3d51F1jPE + 21e8 = youtu.be/FoTx6dKNGmc ? lolz
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September 06, 2010, 03:44:34 PM
 #57

Wow. That's great find! Thank you!

As for room itself - yea, it still beta. Still some annoy errors happens ) So please send email.


2All: What variant of cards you like the most? I think closest one is "Nobus 4-color full color card deck"? I need to check what is a license on them tho..

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September 09, 2010, 11:12:18 AM
 #58

N/M

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September 09, 2010, 02:56:36 PM
 #59

N/M

what does this mean? =)

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September 09, 2010, 06:23:24 PM
 #60

nevermind

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September 10, 2010, 02:03:53 AM
 #61

four colored deck =)



I've resized from original taller variant. this way it's much easier to integrate with existing design =))

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September 10, 2010, 02:11:52 AM
 #62

Oh, it's pretty.


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September 12, 2010, 05:37:41 AM
 #63

Account edit page! =)




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September 12, 2010, 07:32:49 AM
 #64

Yes! 

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September 15, 2010, 08:47:48 PM
 #65

Who wanna play holdem, guys? Grin

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September 16, 2010, 05:04:16 AM
 #66

I've added plugins for keeping retrying to send packet to server in case of connectivity problem (after which room "freezes"). Can't tell for sure, but seems to work. Could someone play a bit and let me know if room will "freeze" again after clicking some action buttons?

This is biggest issue for me and snowstopper for opening room to public (imagine having AA in hand and room freeze =))

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September 16, 2010, 06:30:45 AM
 #67

I recommend you to test through a slow connection (TOR, I2P, Opera Turbo, proxy, dial-up, etc).
I usually use a similar method for some software fast testing (an old computer, lack of resources).

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September 16, 2010, 12:41:43 PM
 #68

I've used tc features in linux kernel to drop 50% packets and it still worked. If I keep increasing drop ratio, browser itself start throwing nasty errors, so I wanted to check in real environment. But this freeze issue happens only sometimes and hard to catch. =))

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September 16, 2010, 05:06:06 PM
 #69

Continue to experiment with free SSL certificates providers. Now installed StartSSL free certificate, so do not surpised if browser will tell you difference =)

Hope, this will allow skip this ugly warning screen for most users.

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October 19, 2010, 02:50:19 AM
 #70

Finally, I decided to open it. Link already leaked, so no need to hide it anyway.

As a bonus for all beta testers I've deposited some bonuses. =) I did not had a lot of bitcoins, so do not expect a lot tho. =))

Anyway, spreading a word about it is highly welcomed!

Also, I am going to return rake back from now.


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October 19, 2010, 01:15:55 PM
 #71

As usual, there appeared bugs right after start. First one was realy serious, but thank you to joe, it is safe now.

Second one with showing wrong card faces.

Therefore I again shut it down and going to work on it.

Sorry guys. =(

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October 21, 2010, 01:23:56 PM
 #72

It's up and running again =)

https://betco.in

Please, report all bugs you will find out. The best place is on GitHub (link in the bottom of the site) or here.

And consider this project still beta =)

Ah. If table will freeze for you - press F5 or right click and Refresh. And if it will happen often - report it back too!

Thank you everyone who were helping me with testing all of it!

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October 21, 2010, 03:34:35 PM
 #73

We need a poker night for the forum. I want to play, but don't want to wait for an opponent and then play heads up.

I'll start and say I'll be here during monday night football, which is 8:30pm ET (on monday) for 3 hours. I don't like to play short handed, meaning I'm bad at it.

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October 21, 2010, 04:18:27 PM
 #74

I am in! Will setup calendar notification for it!

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October 21, 2010, 08:04:16 PM
 #75

We need a poker night for the forum. I want to play, but don't want to wait for an opponent and then play heads up.

I'll start and say I'll be here during monday night football, which is 8:30pm ET (on monday) for 3 hours. I don't like to play short handed, meaning I'm bad at it.

That is 2:30PM here which is tough for me, but I'll try.

Ohh, hippich, would it be hard to make it pop to the front of the screen when it is your turn?

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October 21, 2010, 11:10:49 PM
 #76

We need a poker night for the forum. I want to play, but don't want to wait for an opponent and then play heads up.

I'll start and say I'll be here during monday night football, which is 8:30pm ET (on monday) for 3 hours. I don't like to play short handed, meaning I'm bad at it.

That is 2:30PM here which is tough for me, but I'll try.

Ohh, hippich, would it be hard to make it pop to the front of the screen when it is your turn?

Hm.. Interesting feature. I will look into makign it for sure! Thanx!

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October 24, 2010, 11:27:00 PM
 #77

I've configured tables to have 180 secs timeout in case soeone experiense room freeze. i still look for options to eliminated this bug.

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October 26, 2010, 06:15:12 PM
 #78

Today tested room on iPad - work perfect =) Looking forward to test it on android device.

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October 26, 2010, 07:12:13 PM
 #79

Today tested room on iPad - work perfect =) Looking forward to test it on android device.

I played very briefly on my android one night when the power went out. It seemed to work fine.

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October 26, 2010, 07:17:26 PM
 #80

Was it phone or tablet?

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October 26, 2010, 07:21:10 PM
 #81

Was it phone or tablet?

phone.

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October 26, 2010, 07:23:57 PM
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I wonder what's about screensize. Was it's easy to play at all? Or you used some sort of zooming?

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October 26, 2010, 07:48:12 PM
 #83

I wonder what's about screensize. Was it's easy to play at all? Or you used some sort of zooming?

It seemed easy to me, but I might have just been excited that it worked at all. It was only heads up, so maybe the whole table didn't fit, but it didn't matter. This was over a month ago, I'll try again later today and give a better report.

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October 27, 2010, 02:30:30 AM
 #84

This is a general question for all gambling sites using bitcoin.
Wont it be good to impose a limit to stop 18 year and under kids from playing.
At least a formal warning and anti addiction messages.

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October 27, 2010, 03:38:59 AM
 #85

I do not care right now about all regulations and stuff like this. If kid was smart enough to find, buy/mint bitcoins - there is no moral right to limit his/her access to bitcoin poker room.

But later - proobably. If this thing will ever take off and bitcoins become second paypal - of course all these details will need to be fixed. But not right now.

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October 27, 2010, 03:40:43 AM
 #86

This is a general question for all gambling sites using bitcoin.
Wont it be good to impose a limit to stop 18 year and under kids from playing.
At least a formal warning and anti addiction messages.


Seriously? You think warnings stop people from doing what they want? Yes, people under 18 are people and choose to do what they want.

Did warnings stop you from watching porn?

Ageism is bigotry. It's been done to us, but we don't have to perpetuate the idea that there is some sub-human cutoff age if we don't want to.

Sorry to derail the thread, I won't discuss it here, but in another thread I'd love to rant for a while.

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October 27, 2010, 03:49:09 AM
 #87

This is a general question for all gambling sites using bitcoin.
Wont it be good to impose a limit to stop 18 year and under kids from playing.
At least a formal warning and anti addiction messages.


Seriously? You think warnings stop people from doing what they want? Yes, people under 18 are people and choose to do what they want.

Did warnings stop you from watching porn?

Ageism is bigotry. It's been done to us, but we don't have to perpetuate the idea that there is some sub-human cutoff age if we don't want to.

Sorry to derail the thread, I won't discuss it here, but in another thread I'd love to rant for a while.

Yes please! But I can't wait... cannot hold it any longer...

What do warnings do for the user? Absolutely nothing! "No, officer, I didn't see the NO STEALING sign, or I wouldn't have gone for the cash register".
What do warnings do anyway? They serve as 'insurance' for those who don't want to take responsibility, like parents. Yes, I caught my son watching porn and the damn site didn't have a 18 year + warning, or I'm sure he wouldn't have clicked on it... Huh?

It's very late, I might have failed to express my feelings on this, but any kind of censorship is bad, disguise it as you wish. And I know, terrorists, child porn, you name your excuse for controlling everything and everyone, but I just feel that the flip side of the current censorship and control situation is much worse than what they say they want to avoid Smiley And you fill in the 'they' placeholders with whatever form of government you have where you live, it's pretty much all the same everywhere.

There, I said it, now off to bed.
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October 27, 2010, 12:08:23 PM
 #88

You guys can call it "censorship" all you want but it doesn't take away from the fact that in the United States you can get in deep trouble for making a wager with a minor over the internet. Of course you'll argue "I had no idea he was only 15!", but the fact that you knowingly played poker at a site that did not even post an age restriction, well, "you should have known better" is what it will come down to.

You can take the risk if you want but I honestly see no point in doing so. Stand up for what you believe in, but this would hardly be the way to go about it. I can give my 5% rake to a poker table that I barely have to worry about technical issues, security, or legality. It has nothing to do with my stance on underage gambling, but all to do with my country's stance on this issue. If I object to that, I'll argue the law and try to change it, not disobey the law and explain myself later.

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October 27, 2010, 01:23:53 PM
 #89

This makes perfect sense and will be done sometimes. But just not now. Right now the whole bitcoins world is in it's infancy.

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October 27, 2010, 01:24:55 PM
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You guys can call it "censorship" all you want but it doesn't take away from the fact that in the United States you can get in deep trouble for making a wager with a minor over the internet. Of course you'll argue "I had no idea he was only 15!", but the fact that you knowingly played poker at a site that did not even post an age restriction, well, "you should have known better" is what it will come down to.

You can take the risk if you want but I honestly see no point in doing so. Stand up for what you believe in, but this would hardly be the way to go about it. I can give my 5% rake to a poker table that I barely have to worry about technical issues, security, or legality. It has nothing to do with my stance on underage gambling, but all to do with my country's stance on this issue. If I object to that, I'll argue the law and try to change it, not disobey the law and explain myself later.


It's the fact that it is law, and that people thing that's just what it is "in everyone's best interest" that puzzles me. I don't want to break the law, I don't have an issue with having the notice, it's the fact that people feel the notice is needed that shows the current state of afairs Smiley
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October 27, 2010, 01:29:23 PM
 #91

It's the fact that it is law, and that people thing that's just what it is "in everyone's best interest" that puzzles me. I don't want to break the law, I don't have an issue with having the notice, it's the fact that people feel the notice is needed that shows the current state of afairs Smiley

Sometimes I wonder why we should respect laws we don't agree with.
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October 27, 2010, 02:24:28 PM
 #92

It's the fact that it is law, and that people thing that's just what it is "in everyone's best interest" that puzzles me. I don't want to break the law, I don't have an issue with having the notice, it's the fact that people feel the notice is needed that shows the current state of afairs Smiley

Sometimes I wonder why we should respect laws we don't agree with.


'cos law - is opinion of majority. and if you do not agree - you are minority. =) BTW, you can disrespect law, but you have to follow it to live with in society which use it without problems. =)

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October 27, 2010, 02:40:05 PM
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It's the fact that it is law, and that people thing that's just what it is "in everyone's best interest" that puzzles me. I don't want to break the law, I don't have an issue with having the notice, it's the fact that people feel the notice is needed that shows the current state of afairs Smiley

Sometimes I wonder why we should respect laws we don't agree with.


'cos law - is opinion of majority. and if you do not agree - you are minority. =) BTW, you can disrespect law, but you have to follow it to live with in society which use it without problems. =)

Well, yeah, the way society is wired now... but you should be able to not follow law, assuming you don't break it, so here it should be unlawful to entice minors to gamble, but if they do, well, tough.
But we don't put responsability in people, which is why we have laws and courts. We just don't trust people's good will or common sense. Yeah, some are crooks, but why do we all live under the assumption we are crooks?

while we're on politics, why not touch religion? Smiley Do god fearing people really need a priest saying they should not steal? C'mon! isn't that just common sense? No, because if they do steal there's a punishment. So stealing is not something one shouldn't do, but rather something you pay for if you do... as most good things are.
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October 27, 2010, 03:03:04 PM
 #94

Okey. This is going to completely different topic =))

It's not gambling yet. Bitcoin is virtual currency (for government sake). It's just another web for-fun poker game.

Once it will become too serious, I will consider doing all law related stuff. Including obtaining gambling license if I will have to.

But really, I doubt this will happen soon. Right now I want to focus on fellow bitcoiners and provide another way of having fun for their minted/traded bitcoins, rather then trying to build any serious business out of it. So most important stuff for me right now - bugs and features of poker room itself =)

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October 27, 2010, 03:23:28 PM
 #95

As far as I know, Bitcoins ability to be exchanged for real money makes a gaming license a requirement whether the bets are made with a recognized currency or not. Play money on a poker site is something entirely different, as it has no real value.

I'll stop derailing the thread though. The site has merit, just be careful.

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October 27, 2010, 03:32:11 PM
 #96

Another question for people out there:

I plan to pay back some percentage of rake paid to top X performers. I thought about setting up public "Top X players" showing their rake profit. There is question - should I show real nicknames or use something like "Player 1", "Player 2" instead hidding who is really top performer. Any thoughts appreciated!

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October 27, 2010, 03:54:54 PM
 #97

Another question for people out there:

I plan to pay back some percentage of rake paid to top X performers. I thought about setting up public "Top X players" showing their rake profit. There is question - should I show real nicknames or use something like "Player 1", "Player 2" instead hidding who is really top performer. Any thoughts appreciated!

I think we'll have an idea of how much everyone plays anyway since it's a small pool for now. I guess that means show names. I suppose that's a little better transparency wise too, so that we all know that prizes are being paid to real people and not some phantom you invented  Tongue

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October 27, 2010, 04:11:23 PM
 #98

Another question for people out there:

I plan to pay back some percentage of rake paid to top X performers. I thought about setting up public "Top X players" showing their rake profit. There is question - should I show real nicknames or use something like "Player 1", "Player 2" instead hidding who is really top performer. Any thoughts appreciated!

I think we'll have an idea of how much everyone plays anyway since it's a small pool for now. I guess that means show names. I suppose that's a little better transparency wise too, so that we all know that prizes are being paid to real people and not some phantom you invented  Tongue

I totally agree, but I am a bit concerned about someones trying to keep privacy. So i'd like to hear opinions before I will publish list of nicknames =)

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October 27, 2010, 10:51:23 PM
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I totally agree, but I am a bit concerned about someones trying to keep privacy. So i'd like to hear opinions before I will publish list of nicknames =)
I have no problem with nicknames being shown.

One small request. I notice that if I have an email associated with my account it shows my gravatar. Is it possible to have an option to disable this?
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October 28, 2010, 12:06:08 AM
 #100

I totally agree, but I am a bit concerned about someones trying to keep privacy. So i'd like to hear opinions before I will publish list of nicknames =)
I have no problem with nicknames being shown.

One small request. I notice that if I have an email associated with my account it shows my gravatar. Is it possible to have an option to disable this?

Make sense. Will add to list of features requests =)

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October 29, 2010, 07:43:50 PM
 #101

I'm sorry if I'm late to the rake discussion, but I'd like to know the current state of affairs...  I've played there a number of times.

It appeared to me that the rake was exorbitant, higher than live, especially for what are often HU games, without hand histories, etc., I can't verify these things, but it struck me that the following were the case:
  • Rake was not capped?!  I believe that in some huge pots, i.e., larger than 250 BB), the rake that flashed by was some VERY large number, and certainly not a simple, truncated number that would indicate a cap, and NO ONE has a rake structure that is capped above 250 BB, even at the lowest limit live raketraps...
  • The consequence of this is that a relatively short HU match (in hands - it's a slow interface) that involved me winning maybe about 2.5 buyins total, I ended UP maybe about 50 BB
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October 29, 2010, 07:59:13 PM
 #102

The rake needs capped for sure. PS and I believe other sites have a much lower rake cap for HU games. I think it's still 50 cents instead of $3. This is especially important if you need game starters. I think there are plenty of people who want to play full tables, but not HU. You need HU to get things started.

I know you are just using the default setting because it was the default, just want to make sure it's clear that it'll be important to growing a healthy active site to put a cap on.

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October 29, 2010, 08:43:06 PM
 #103

Man this is frustrating.  I don't understand how the forum swallowed most of my post.  It was about 3x longer, well formatted, and included suggestions, etc.

Also included was what an explanation of what appeared to be a MAJOR bug in which the rake was not even based on the correct pot size!  I'm too frustrated to retype in entirety, but here's Cliff's:

* I'm 200 BB deep, Villain is 50 BB deep.  I CRAI on turn for my 200, villain called.  Rake appeared to calculated on a 250 BB pot (!!) when the pot was 100 BB (both of which, obv., should be above the cap.)

Winning ~3 BI over 75-150 hands and walking away with a ~25 BB profit is equivalent to a 92% rake.  A particularly harsh way to punish those players willing to play HU to start games, and a definite way to dry up your NL pool VERY quickly.  I wish I'd been paying more attention.

Site op, feel free to PM me with requests for elucidations/suggestions, etc...

I'm happy to deal with a perhaps necessarily clunky interface because poker and BTC are both fun things for me, but these issues really need to be addressed.

Best wishes, and kudos on the initiative; let me know if I can be of any service.

- Cynosure

I'm sorry if I'm late to the rake discussion, but I'd like to know the current state of affairs...  I've played there a number of times.

It appeared to me that the rake was exorbitant, higher than live, especially for what are often HU games, without hand histories, etc., I can't verify these things, but it struck me that the following were the case:

(....)
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October 30, 2010, 01:49:26 AM
 #104

Hey guys,

I think I reworked rake module to cap rake on 3BTC. Please, let me know if it will charge more.

I will try to reach author regarding HU blinds issue, but can't really tell for sure when it will happen. IMHO, He more concerned about licensing issue instead code from my short experience. =(


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October 30, 2010, 03:30:00 PM
 #105

i disabled rake again. will try to fix wrong pot amount used and then will turn it on again. until then - game is totally free =)

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November 15, 2010, 03:56:08 AM
 #106

Added "Hide Gravatar" in My Account - Edit form.

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March 25, 2011, 12:31:57 PM
 #107

What about to play today? Smiley

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March 25, 2011, 01:18:35 PM
 #108

depends on time =) i will be able to join game around 10pm GMT-5

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March 25, 2011, 03:16:41 PM
 #109

I will play, only smaller limits tho
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March 25, 2011, 06:35:39 PM
 #110

Ohhhhhh this is just PERFECT! POKER TIME BOYSSSSSSSSS
This is whats gonna get Bitcoins up and running, work on making everything LOOK pretty so that RANDOM googlers will start playing


WHO WANTS TO LOOSE THIER .0x BTCs IN HOLD'EM BETCHES!!! Grin Grin

I've had massive bug while attempting to play poker, all players whom have a timer bar Do Not Have Any Actions to do, this occurs after the flop and after first raise, Once a player calls the raise, he is stuck with a timerbar and No Actions, leaving to whole table to spin around and time out every player, causeing whomever was the first player to push Call, to rake the entire pot

http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=DingoRabiit&sign=ANY&type=RECV <-My Ratings
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.0 GAWminers and associated things are not to be trusted, Especially the "mineral" exchange
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March 25, 2011, 08:33:06 PM
 #111

Ohhhhhh this is just PERFECT! POKER TIME BOYSSSSSSSSS
This is whats gonna get Bitcoins up and running, work on making everything LOOK pretty so that RANDOM googlers will start playing


WHO WANTS TO LOOSE THIER .0x BTCs IN HOLD'EM BETCHES!!! Grin Grin

I've had massive bug while attempting to play poker, all players whom have a timer bar Do Not Have Any Actions to do, this occurs after the flop and after first raise, Once a player calls the raise, he is stuck with a timerbar and No Actions, leaving to whole table to spin around and time out every player, causeing whomever was the first player to push Call, to rake the entire pot

This is long standing bug somewhere deep in libraries I am using but not written by myself. Since there is almost no public interest and no profit for me in this project, I am too lazy to find it and fix it..

Temporary fix for this - just click F5 in the table window.

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March 25, 2011, 09:02:31 PM
 #112

Hippich, Y'know i wouldn't mind paying 1% of my winnings to play......

http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=DingoRabiit&sign=ANY&type=RECV <-My Ratings
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March 25, 2011, 09:41:41 PM
 #113

The Poker room overall is a great project.

Just one minor suggestion for the homepage: You could revise it and remove the "you can generate coins" part, as most people entering the poker room would be "non-miners" and therefore should not be disappointed by the false expectations of generating coins.

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April 07, 2011, 02:37:33 PM
 #114

well.. i decided to work a bit on room. there were few annoying admin bugs and I added twitter notification feature. Now every 5 minutes it checks if there are any players and if they are - post notification to http://twitter.com/betcoin

Follow it to know exactly when someone is in room and join 'em!

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April 07, 2011, 02:39:00 PM
 #115

Hippich, Y'know i wouldn't mind paying 1% of my winnings to play......

it was 1% before. but it did not have cap. other players were very angry =) so I put donation btc addresses. If someone feels this project is worth of effort or you just won huge pot - just tip a bit to the project. =)

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April 09, 2011, 02:28:11 AM
 #116

theres 4 players right now.

CENTRA

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█████     █████          ▄████▌    █████
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 ▀████▄     ▀██████████████▀     ▄████▀
  ▀█████▄     `▀████████▀▀     ▄█████▀
   `██████▄                  ▄██████
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April 09, 2011, 02:34:44 AM
 #117

Hippich: your twitter message are annoying and polluting the twitter stream for #bitcoin.

I don't need to know how many players are in your poker room every time it change.

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April 09, 2011, 03:39:53 AM
 #118

removed hash tags =)

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April 09, 2011, 03:58:09 AM
 #119

I've played a few hands so far but I do have some comments.

1. Hand Histories. If I get to showdown with someone I should be able to look at a hand history and see what cards he had if I win.
2. I sat down in front of the button and couldn't play. That is fine and as it should be. A few hands where dealt, the button passed me by and I was sitting in the CO and my blind was automatically posted. I was not in the BB position. I should have the option to either post early or wait until the BB comes around to me. I shouldn't have to enter early if I don't want to.

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April 09, 2011, 03:59:14 AM
 #120

The betting bar should have something I can click to increase/decrease my bet amount by 1 BB instead of just the slider.

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April 09, 2011, 05:40:46 AM
 #121

thank you for all suggestions. but this thing do not gives me any profits and the only real bug I may be willing to try to fix is occasion freezes of the table over slow connection. rest of "must have" features or less major bugs - only if this project will ever take off.

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April 09, 2011, 06:19:36 AM
 #122

thank you for all suggestions. but this thing do not gives me any profits and the only real bug I may be willing to try to fix is occasion freezes of the table over slow connection. rest of "must have" features or less major bugs - only if this project will ever take off.

Understandable, but you may find you need to fix some things before it will take off.

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April 09, 2011, 06:23:43 AM
 #123

removed hash tags =)

My search feed naturally detect any bitcoin related thing. It's still polluting the twitter stream. Perhaps you should limit it to a day summary or something.

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April 09, 2011, 05:30:15 PM
 #124

removed hash tags =)

My search feed naturally detect any bitcoin related thing. It's still polluting the twitter stream. Perhaps you should limit it to a day summary or something.

the point of these tweets - to give immediate update if someone joined room. so it do not make sense to post "summary" once per day.

I understand your frustration and once there will be enough users all the time, so random visitors will not stare at empty tables - i will remove these tweets completely.

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April 09, 2011, 05:34:51 PM
 #125

thank you for all suggestions. but this thing do not gives me any profits and the only real bug I may be willing to try to fix is occasion freezes of the table over slow connection. rest of "must have" features or less major bugs - only if this project will ever take off.

Understandable, but you may find you need to fix some things before it will take off.

from my experience, this statement is not correct =) it could be just my experience, but since I am doing this project, I will do it accordingly to my experience.

but since this is open source project too, you are always welcome to submit patches! or even fork it off github and start your own! =)

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April 09, 2011, 05:39:22 PM
 #126

but since this is open source project too, you are always welcome to submit patches! or even fork it off github and start your own! =)

lol. The last thing you want is me hacking at your code  Cheesy

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April 09, 2011, 07:08:20 PM
 #127

well.. who knows. sometimes something seemingly hard just matter of two lines of code =)) (and vice versa =))

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April 10, 2011, 08:33:34 PM
 #128

the point of these tweets - to give immediate update if someone joined room. so it do not make sense to post "summary" once per day.

I understand your frustration and once there will be enough users all the time, so random visitors will not stare at empty tables - i will remove these tweets completely.

Remove these tweet = stop polluting my twitter stream?

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April 10, 2011, 08:54:05 PM
 #129

Why not put the player count on the main page of the website and in your signature on the forums?

Cryptocoin Mining Info | OTC | PGP | Twitter | freenode: dust-otc | BTC: 1F6fV4U2xnpAuKtmQD6BWpK3EuRosKzF8U
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April 11, 2011, 01:46:36 AM
 #130

the point of these tweets - to give immediate update if someone joined room. so it do not make sense to post "summary" once per day.

I understand your frustration and once there will be enough users all the time, so random visitors will not stare at empty tables - i will remove these tweets completely.

Remove these tweet = stop polluting my twitter stream?

you are free to blacklist this account, setup filters in your client. whatever. i do not care. the only thing i care - to have players when someone come to the room.

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April 11, 2011, 02:08:34 AM
 #131

you are free to blacklist this account, setup filters in your client. whatever. i do not care. the only thing i care - to have players when someone come to the room.

I blocked you. The messages are still getting through so I am going to be slightly annoyed by your multiple tweets each time.

Anyway...just remember you are increasing noise to signal ratio. If I am brothered by this noisy activities, there are others who might be irritated too. That's going to be bad for your business and reputation.

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April 11, 2011, 02:31:48 AM
 #132

this is temporal solution and i will look in to it after while to see exactly if it bring anything to the project or not. if it will bring more players i definitely do not care about feedback from users who are not players. (sorry, but this is true =))

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April 11, 2011, 02:41:16 AM
 #133

this is temporal solution and i will look in to it after while to see exactly if it bring anything to the project or not. if it will bring more players i definitely do not care about feedback from users who are not players. (sorry, but this is true =))

Please be considerate of people impacted by your negative externalities.

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April 11, 2011, 02:44:13 AM
 #134

I find it annoying too, as it spams the twitter search for bitcoin. It would be okay if it was less frequent though.
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April 11, 2011, 03:06:27 AM
 #135

I find it annoying too, as it spams the twitter search for bitcoin. It would be okay if it was less frequent though.

Yes. Less frequency. No need to tell us there are 1 person in the room 5 minutes apart.

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April 15, 2011, 07:26:30 PM
 #136

http://www.businessinsider.com/online-poker-websites-fraud-2011-4

Pokersites shut down..
Be careful.

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April 17, 2011, 12:30:01 AM
 #137

betco.in seems to be down. is my btc still there?


CENTRA

            ▄▄▄██████████▄▄▄
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  █████     ▄██████████████▄     ▀████▄
 █████     ██████▀▀  ▀▀██████▄    ▀████
▐████     █████          █████     █████
█████    ▐████                     ▐████
█████    █████                     ▐████
█████     █████          ▄████▌    █████
 ████▌    ▀█████▄▄    ▄▄█████▀    ▄████▌
 ▀████▄     ▀██████████████▀     ▄████▀
  ▀█████▄     `▀████████▀▀     ▄█████▀
   `██████▄                  ▄██████
     ▀███████▄▄          ▄▄███████▀
       ▀██████████████████████▀
           ▀▀▀█████████████▀▀

.
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April 17, 2011, 03:44:42 AM
 #138

betco.in seems to be down. is my btc still there?



+1  down for me for the last couple of hours...

-EP

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April 17, 2011, 07:46:55 PM
 #139

betco.in seems to be down. is my btc still there?

+1  down for me for the last couple of hours...

It seems functional now.

Tips are always welcome and can be sent to 1CZ8QgBWZSV3nLLqRk2BD3B4qDbpWAEDCZ

Thanks to ye, we have the final piece.

PGP key fingerprint: 2B7A B280 8B12 21CC 260A  DF65 6FCE 505A CF83 38F5

SerajewelKS @ #bitcoin-otc
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April 18, 2011, 02:47:04 AM
 #140

I'm extremely excited to see what happens to the traffic to betco.in

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April 18, 2011, 02:54:08 AM
 #141


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April 18, 2011, 08:51:31 AM
 #142

thank you for all suggestions. but this thing do not gives me any profits and the only real bug I may be willing to try to fix is occasion freezes of the table over slow connection. rest of "must have" features or less major bugs - only if this project will ever take off.

Why don't you make this project for profit? I don't know much about poker myself (I don't like gambling at all), but isn't the standard to get some small % from each deposit, so that you can run the service.

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April 18, 2011, 03:15:49 PM
 #143

you are free to blacklist this account, setup filters in your client. whatever. i do not care. the only thing i care - to have players when someone come to the room.

I blocked you. The messages are still getting through so I am going to be slightly annoyed by your multiple tweets each time.

Anyway...just remember you are increasing noise to signal ratio. If I am brothered by this noisy activities, there are others who might be irritated too. That's going to be bad for your business and reputation.

Sounds like you should take the issue up with twitter.  It is their failure that your blocking is unsuccessful.

As we slide down the banister of life, this is just another splinter in our ass.
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April 18, 2011, 09:46:37 PM
 #144

Feature request:  When seated with more than 10, the decimal does not show and it would be nice if it did.

Thanks Hippich... don't forget to rate me on #bitcoin-otc

thanks
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April 18, 2011, 09:58:42 PM
 #145

please post all feature requests to https://github.com/hippich/Bitcoin-Poker-Room/issues - this will make it way easier to track all of them. as well as all bugs =)

2all struggling with freezes - i think i will order new server this week and start migrating all sites. it may take a while (i am using this server for hosting all of my projects. New server will have SSD drive as well as more memory. this will definitely help with response time. (this will not remove freezing bug completely, since this is bug in client, but it should happen less often with faster server)

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April 18, 2011, 10:20:58 PM
 #146

Just for interest, do you currently use a vps or a dedicated server?
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April 18, 2011, 10:25:41 PM
 #147

dedicated

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April 19, 2011, 12:42:40 AM
 #148

Also, I hear of people having issues getting BTC into your program... A guy has been waiting 30 minutes and shows confirmed on his end... Anyone had similar issues?

-EP

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April 19, 2011, 12:43:37 AM
 #149

Also, I hear of people having issues getting BTC into your program... A guy has been waiting 30 minutes and shows confirmed on his end... Anyone had similar issues?

-EP

please ask them to write email to pavel@yepcorp.com with details. I've seen this in the past and I need to track it down.

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April 19, 2011, 04:48:58 AM
 #150

Also, I hear of people having issues getting BTC into your program... A guy has been waiting 30 minutes and shows confirmed on his end... Anyone had similar issues?

-EP

please ask them to write email to pavel@yepcorp.com with details. I've seen this in the past and I need to track it down.

It appears to be down, and I sent you an e-mail regarding the deposit issue.

-EP

disregard: 9:54PST

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April 19, 2011, 07:51:20 AM
 #151

wow nice boxes... but the sig's a lil big,
Anything you can do about the lag in the rooms?

http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=DingoRabiit&sign=ANY&type=RECV <-My Ratings
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.0 GAWminers and associated things are not to be trusted, Especially the "mineral" exchange
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April 19, 2011, 12:43:41 PM
 #152

Also, I hear of people having issues getting BTC into your program... A guy has been waiting 30 minutes and shows confirmed on his end... Anyone had similar issues?

-EP

please ask them to write email to pavel@yepcorp.com with details. I've seen this in the past and I need to track it down.

It appears to be down, and I sent you an e-mail regarding the deposit issue.

-EP

disregard: 9:54PST


this, and you posted this post after 20 minutes after your email =) email answered

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April 19, 2011, 09:33:26 PM
 #153

Im having a lot of stability problems. Mostly that the room wont load, or that it loads then freezes and wont reload. Anyone else having this issue? Its really turing me off form playing. When it works its awesome though!

CENTRA

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█████     █████          ▄████▌    █████
 ████▌    ▀█████▄▄    ▄▄█████▀    ▄████▌
 ▀████▄     ▀██████████████▀     ▄████▀
  ▀█████▄     `▀████████▀▀     ▄█████▀
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hippich
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April 19, 2011, 09:41:20 PM
 #154

client have issues with concurrent requests to server - it do not resend packet if previous did not went through. this leads to break in workflow. Therefore right now the only way to mitigate this right now - make connection to server as fast as possible and make server operate as fast as possible. This is not a correct solution, since bug should be fixed in first place, but I just do not have time for this even if I had incentive to fix it.

if you are using tor or proxies - connecting directly should help a lot.

i am going to migrate server to another more powerful one in the end of april.

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April 19, 2011, 09:47:29 PM
 #155

client have issues with concurrent requests to server - it do not resend packet if previous did not went through. this leads to break in workflow. Therefore right now the only way to mitigate this right now - make connection to server as fast as possible and make server operate as fast as possible. This is not a correct solution, since bug should be fixed in first place, but I just do not have time for this even if I had incentive to fix it.

if you are using tor or proxies - connecting directly should help a lot.

i am going to migrate server to another more powerful one in the end of april.

Yeah everyone I was just playing has the same problem. I think Im going to have to just stop playing, its ridiculously slow. The website seems to navigate fine, but the play is really really slow. I dont mind donating if you can fix the issue. Im connected directly to the site. I have an ~8gb connection so...


CENTRA

            ▄▄▄██████████▄▄▄
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      ▄███████▀▀         ▀▀███████▄
    ▄█████▀                  ▀██████
   █████▀      ▄▄▄█████▄▄      ▀█████▄
  █████     ▄██████████████▄     ▀████▄
 █████     ██████▀▀  ▀▀██████▄    ▀████
▐████     █████          █████     █████
█████    ▐████                     ▐████
█████    █████                     ▐████
█████     █████          ▄████▌    █████
 ████▌    ▀█████▄▄    ▄▄█████▀    ▄████▌
 ▀████▄     ▀██████████████▀     ▄████▀
  ▀█████▄     `▀████████▀▀     ▄█████▀
   `██████▄                  ▄██████
     ▀███████▄▄          ▄▄███████▀
       ▀██████████████████████▀
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April 20, 2011, 07:32:26 PM
 #156

client have issues with concurrent requests to server - it do not resend packet if previous did not went through. this leads to break in workflow. Therefore right now the only way to mitigate this right now - make connection to server as fast as possible and make server operate as fast as possible. This is not a correct solution, since bug should be fixed in first place, but I just do not have time for this even if I had incentive to fix it.

if you are using tor or proxies - connecting directly should help a lot.

i am going to migrate server to another more powerful one in the end of april.

Yeah everyone I was just playing has the same problem. I think Im going to have to just stop playing, its ridiculously slow. The website seems to navigate fine, but the play is really really slow. I dont mind donating if you can fix the issue. Im connected directly to the site. I have an ~8gb connection so...



Awww Bitjet, don't give up!  I still have coins to win from you!  Monday it was working pretty superbly... Yesterday I was having some issues... But yes, Hippich, we're all excited to see this work properly, if there's anything we can do to assist you, please let us know!

-EP

YOU CAN TRUST ME! EPiSKiNG-'s COINS!! BUYING / SELLING BTC - USA --- View my OTC Trading Feedback!!
<gribble> You are identified as user EPiSKiNG-, with GPG key id 721730127CD7574D, key fingerprint EBFC267F8F10EFD1FB84854D721730127CD7574D, and bitcoin address 1EPiSKiNG139bzcwTm8rxMFNfFFdanLW5K
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April 21, 2011, 10:20:34 PM
 #157

Some suggestions:

- Your button position is off when playing heads up.

- A new room should open at the same limit when a person joins a table so that multiple tables are available at that limit.
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April 22, 2011, 02:43:22 AM
 #158

Some suggestions:

- Your button position is off when playing heads up.

- A new room should open at the same limit when a person joins a table so that multiple tables are available at that limit.

Please posst all requests to issues on project page. For example heads up mode button issue alredy there.

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April 24, 2011, 11:35:46 AM
 #159

I sent an e-mail, but just posting here until I receive a reply to see if anyone else is having this issue. I withdrew BTC 70.01 from my account last night, but I have yet to receive it. I got a different message than usual, saying that the request was received and was being processed and that if I did not receive the funds within 24 hours to contact via e-mail. I then tried a smaller withdrawal of BTC 0.16 to the same address and it worked instantly, so I'm wondering if maybe it was because it was a larger transaction that it is being manually verified or something? Anyone else had this issue?

1123eDq1MAtU4CrtxWpwtNDt4CXJtEE5Nn
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April 24, 2011, 01:55:56 PM
 #160

I already wrote answer to email and will repeat here for everybody else.

I keep small amount of bitcoins on server for security. When there is no enough money on server I process transactions manually. In this case you withdraw more then available balance on server.

I am traveling right now and will be back home in 24 hours.


On  the other hand I am traveling and significant amount of money were deposited.

I just found someone with nickname mikerka found security hole in withdrawal code in successfully withdraw all money from the poker room to addresses:

1LdLEx6UhJfqDk3umY7xP6xU1geB6bvhyw
15FKrowdeAuuYchV2rmuWfUTuSgVRDwtQS
1GiPbAgjueb9N4mC9eY9ivSQohUvPK2P3F
1NS3PXX3TAwfbWD5go96jG9c6J35zCPSxd
1Ghkvw73yxHW4XHRYHq8MbfijfB28tqc47
1DUMMNpN7UMLmMfM71iFAoQFkdXaShQqx2
1FYMxvf5ZQtQNsXhSaAPLvELVYezfyyCKH
1fzyhsVGCPZsKutiT1XWpurZQuAL5r1N7
1C9GHhMJPQpPC5kdQYRAMkJsjXaGjReyMR
121CrVNnDkmqscwNDKJobeHKhvXKbBmaam
1LufSuuzs1LRZ3SBLohbGg3N2i6nnrBCix
1L8pxthTCzr3GbtL3XkBdrmdjHwVs9kwyZ
1Gr5BPJwmLHN3mJp2EJGQqWHhevUVQHgnu
1ENzxFpashPqCE8hCza4BA15rxigFcXs8q
1CzXBb7Pmpz8g1f9HmTxUBM9kK5sRjUYRt
1Pbzkyhoy2MwTLW8EKyuXXoKj7tQDLcWXt
1Eyr6CUgC646bpXsnMnQ2xZsDTDubEtjN3
13pCwrqQnjdwAPv8rv5Rvo2zqsZcEGMrzY
1Cp3pnnVdoy7JxuqSbbrQS6WzU3g3nDWbh
133TqWksjNEc7DkqHGhp3MMkFooRiBNo2Y
1BfrWmiwSAHn9NJoR9W1XCDFxrjDp5GmTx
1H9mAMX3rewKkjXQ62TAiaDdnYMKfPebKr
13aCsFYhtM1AAxhcXvugX97Go9G4mC7E82
1ASWJWD3hGhZXLVc5gLA9rnmMZtB9AVqDw
147neArqKo2y3qSYu5pKq5ptetGa1A1Wrn
19rpEJHChVWf2Mf7bxjGcaUaYPMQDLduTj
1DpzUsna4Sv8uZbUUpjVbtJB7JsjL1Q2jn
1AaSDKcn8zebYPZ5KvyiUBq1RDzX8GNirQ
1CbKTvFqV8xe8VRFcQqRarWSHEH4FGXrju
12zKjiJiqvMyvHqyce48ZEP4NpsoMKwhYc

I already fixed this hole. Now, if mikerka reading this I will really appreciate if you return money.

Withdrawn amount is 680 BTC.

2everybody else - i have enough reserve to cover this issue. So your balances are good. But any donations will be really appreciated.

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April 24, 2011, 02:17:53 PM
 #161

Damn that sucks.

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April 24, 2011, 03:11:23 PM
 #162

Wow.....................................................
Thats REALLY not good for site development

http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=DingoRabiit&sign=ANY&type=RECV <-My Ratings
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April 24, 2011, 03:47:02 PM
 #163

Thank you for the update, and that sucks that someone stole all the money. Good thing you don't keep full balances on the server for security, though.

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April 24, 2011, 06:43:37 PM
 #164

I'm concerned not so much about the security breach but about the fact that if I hadn't visited this thread I would have no idea that it happened. There is no message on the main page and the site appears to be running normally.

Tips are appreciated (very tiny tips are perfectly okay!) 13gDRynPfLH3NNAz3nVyU3k3mYVcfeiQuF
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April 24, 2011, 06:53:30 PM
 #165

Everyone thinks, oh wow, bitcoin is perfect for Poker! And yes, in theory that is correct.

But there is so much more to a legit poker site than just dealing the cards. From basic security issues like this theft to collusion and bots, there are hard problem that require significant investment and strong, poker-smart, well-compensated management.

Enjoy the novelty of using bitcoins and plying rake-free/low rake poker, but nobody serious will play above the micros until these are addressed.

Really sorry to hear about the theft though. Sucks.
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April 24, 2011, 07:07:46 PM
 #166

This is not a commercial project. I hope it will be sometimes tho...

This just a test. I passed it in terms of saving users money. Will see how importa.t this project is for every one here tho. Will keep an eye on donations address.

Boarding on aircraft. Will be back soon and proceed all wizdraw requests.

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April 24, 2011, 07:09:36 PM
 #167

I'm concerned not so much about the security breach but about the fact that if I hadn't visited this thread I would have no idea that it happened. There is no message on the main page and the site appears to be running normally.
I am traveling. I closed breach using phone. Passwords to everything else is at home.

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April 24, 2011, 08:34:27 PM
 #168

Thank you for the update, and that sucks that someone stole all the money. Good thing you don't keep full balances on the server for security, though.

Your payment is processed. If someone did not receive their payments - please email me, but I think all others are withdraw money without problems already.

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April 25, 2011, 01:45:22 PM
 #169

New server was finally shipped and I started to work on moving everything to new place. Expect 3-4 days of down time. Thank you in advance for your patience.

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April 26, 2011, 12:39:32 AM
 #170

New server was finally shipped and I started to work on moving everything to new place. Expect 3-4 days of down time. Thank you in advance for your patience.

You should really forward the URL to status page telling people why the sites down and expected time that it will be back up.

CENTRA

            ▄▄▄██████████▄▄▄
        ▄▄████████████████████▄▄
      ▄███████▀▀         ▀▀███████▄
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   █████▀      ▄▄▄█████▄▄      ▀█████▄
  █████     ▄██████████████▄     ▀████▄
 █████     ██████▀▀  ▀▀██████▄    ▀████
▐████     █████          █████     █████
█████    ▐████                     ▐████
█████    █████                     ▐████
█████     █████          ▄████▌    █████
 ████▌    ▀█████▄▄    ▄▄█████▀    ▄████▌
 ▀████▄     ▀██████████████▀     ▄████▀
  ▀█████▄     `▀████████▀▀     ▄█████▀
   `██████▄                  ▄██████
     ▀███████▄▄          ▄▄███████▀
       ▀██████████████████████▀
           ▀▀▀█████████████▀▀

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April 26, 2011, 01:55:11 AM
 #171

New server was finally shipped and I started to work on moving everything to new place. Expect 3-4 days of down time. Thank you in advance for your patience.

You should really forward the URL to status page telling people why the sites down and expected time that it will be back up.

I strongly agree.

Tips are appreciated (very tiny tips are perfectly okay!) 13gDRynPfLH3NNAz3nVyU3k3mYVcfeiQuF
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April 26, 2011, 04:19:37 AM
 #172

Yeah, people are going to try for a few days and give up instead of knowing, not being frustrated, and being glad it's coming to a better sever.

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
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April 26, 2011, 07:23:33 AM
 #173

i have shut old server completely to make sure nothing is messed up. so there is no web server to do redirect...

anyway, it's already runs on new server. I am keeping an eye on it and finish moving other stuff, but it should be playable now. (i hope so =)). So let me know how it works for you.

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April 26, 2011, 05:26:39 PM
 #174

i have shut old server completely to make sure nothing is messed up. so there is no web server to do redirect...

anyway, it's already runs on new server. I am keeping an eye on it and finish moving other stuff, but it should be playable now. (i hope so =)). So let me know how it works for you.


doesn't work at all for me.

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April 26, 2011, 05:56:41 PM
 #175

i have shut old server completely to make sure nothing is messed up. so there is no web server to do redirect...

anyway, it's already runs on new server. I am keeping an eye on it and finish moving other stuff, but it should be playable now. (i hope so =)). So let me know how it works for you.


doesn't work at all for me.

+1 for me... Used to work on my  android phone, and now when I click table, it makes a pop up window and doesn't load...

-EP

YOU CAN TRUST ME! EPiSKiNG-'s COINS!! BUYING / SELLING BTC - USA --- View my OTC Trading Feedback!!
<gribble> You are identified as user EPiSKiNG-, with GPG key id 721730127CD7574D, key fingerprint EBFC267F8F10EFD1FB84854D721730127CD7574D, and bitcoin address 1EPiSKiNG139bzcwTm8rxMFNfFFdanLW5K
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April 26, 2011, 06:00:24 PM
 #176

i have shut old server completely to make sure nothing is messed up. so there is no web server to do redirect...

anyway, it's already runs on new server. I am keeping an eye on it and finish moving other stuff, but it should be playable now. (i hope so =)). So let me know how it works for you.


doesn't work at all for me.

+1 for me... Used to work on my  android phone, and now when I click table, it makes a pop up window and doesn't load...

-EP

So you are getting the site? I'm not even getting that.

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April 26, 2011, 06:16:44 PM
 #177

Sites up and fully working for me...

http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=DingoRabiit&sign=ANY&type=RECV <-My Ratings
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.0 GAWminers and associated things are not to be trusted, Especially the "mineral" exchange
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April 26, 2011, 06:20:37 PM
 #178

Sites up and fully working for me...

Weird, I still get nothing.

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April 26, 2011, 06:28:32 PM
 #179

Sites up and fully working for me...

Weird, I still get nothing.

Yes... Seems to be working now.  Will be on later tonight.. Around 7pst

YOU CAN TRUST ME! EPiSKiNG-'s COINS!! BUYING / SELLING BTC - USA --- View my OTC Trading Feedback!!
<gribble> You are identified as user EPiSKiNG-, with GPG key id 721730127CD7574D, key fingerprint EBFC267F8F10EFD1FB84854D721730127CD7574D, and bitcoin address 1EPiSKiNG139bzcwTm8rxMFNfFFdanLW5K
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April 27, 2011, 10:59:41 PM
 #180

its working great now.... we just need some lower stakes NL Omaha8 plz.  no one is going to play 100/200 on this site.  a bunch of us have been playing .50/1 and .25/.50 lately

SealsWithClubs poker room has  over 400 players online. Buy in from .01 to 60btc.      BTCSportsMatch lets you bet sports with vig free lines!  Best kept secret in bitcoin....          LocalBitcoins.com is very user-friendly now for bank transfers.  You don't have to live close to trade when in the same currency area.           
Electrum client is awesome. Try it. And please stop sending bitcoins to sites run by security newbies, or don't complain when you lose everything.
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April 27, 2011, 11:27:56 PM
 #181

The front page should display how many players are online.

Identifi - Decentralized address book with trust ratings
I'm not a forum admin - please contact theymos instead.
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April 27, 2011, 11:28:40 PM
 #182

The front page should display how many players are online.

For real. Why do we have to log in to see the tables list?

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
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April 28, 2011, 02:19:15 AM
 #183

its working great now.... we just need some lower stakes NL Omaha8 plz.  no one is going to play 100/200 on this site.  a bunch of us have been playing .50/1 and .25/.50 lately

added 4 omaha8 low stakes nl tables. have no clue if these works correctly tho.. and if something comes to your mind for name for the table - let me know to =)

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April 28, 2011, 02:23:41 AM
 #184

The front page should display how many players are online.

For real. Why do we have to log in to see the tables list?

probably because i was concentrated on more important things? =)

you can always check http://twitter.com/betcoin for now. It spams this channel with current statistics on online users. You do not need to be registered with twitter for this.

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April 29, 2011, 02:35:09 AM
 #185

The front page should display how many players are online.

Agreed

http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=DingoRabiit&sign=ANY&type=RECV <-My Ratings
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April 29, 2011, 04:19:44 PM
 #186

Sorry to hear about the theft. I've got an idea:

I will pay would have paid (see below) a bounty of 10 BTC to whoever finds and reveals the identity of this thief (as in real name and address), as long as you aver that you have not violated the laws of your own territory in the process. You must provide enough evidence to convince me personally that you have correctly identified the guilty party.

This offer does not apply to you if you are the thief or are in collusion with the thief.

So that I don't have to hold my coins in reserve forever, let's say this offer expires on July 31. I may renew it then or not.

If others would like to contribute to the bounty, please do so! Feel free to split this off into a new thread if it's more convenient that way.

Ian Maxwell
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April 29, 2011, 04:42:04 PM
 #187

SunAvatar, I really appreciate the fact you want to share this and help! I already found thief email and tried to contact him and convince him to return money. He did not respond. And bitcoin non-reversible nature is not helping here too =))

His nickname - mikerka - is pretty uniq one and he is registered over a lot of hacking-related websites. His email is mikerka@gmail.com . He is registered at Minecraft.

There is a secondlife avatar named mikerka Cluny who bought some coins from another bitcoin forum member recently. His IRC and otc-wot nick is FaktioNN. Keeping in mind bitcoin community size and uniqueness of nickname I am pretty sure all of this is the same person.

I think I seen somewhere age of someone with nickname mikerka of 41 years, but not sure about this part at all.

There is also another guy from CZ, but he too young and looks like not involved in coding/hacking at all, and there is another gal from russia, who is fan of stupid tv show - i doubt she do any hacking. So I believe our mikerka is from USA.

I doubt these bitcoins make any real difference to him in long run, but he did not agreed to return these in exchange for all due respect for finding hole in my software (really dumb one btw =)).

On the other hand this will force me to put more time in to this project and at some point start monetizing it. Either through rake or some sort of sign up fee. =)

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April 29, 2011, 05:04:44 PM
 #188

Good work, hippich! This leaves me with an interesting question: Do I now owe you 10 BTC for identifying your own thief? I'll go with whatever the community says, but I'd prefer to make it my first contribution to a pool for paying similar bounties in the future, which I may start later today. Thefts like this will only become more common as the community grows.

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April 29, 2011, 05:15:44 PM
 #189

Hippich, first of all thanks a lot for this, really appreciate it.

Second, I have some suggestions, you need to adjust your tables really.

Here is what you should do.

Elminate all tables above 2-4 No Limit, for right now.

Eliminate all omaha and stud tables, for now. I played omaha and was only able to see 2 cards, normally you should be able to see all 4 of your cards, so thats bad.

Eliminate all FAST tables, people need more time for action since theres so many bugs right now.

Have
5 .01-.02 no limit tables
3 .02-.04 no limit
3 .05-.10 no limit
3 .10-.25 no limit
3 .25-.50 no limit
3 .50-1.00 no limit
1 1-2 no limit
1 2-4 no limit

Then have
5 .02-.04 limit tables
3 .05-.10 limit
3 .10-.20 limit
3 .25-.50 limit
3 .50-1.00 limit
1 1-2 limit
1 2-4 limit

This is a much better setup. As for table names, don't sweat it table names don't matter at all. Can just say microstakes 1, microstakes 2, highstakes 1, highstakes 2, etc or whatever you can think of.

Finally, you must fix the structure in limit tables. The problem is, the software makes the blinds 2x big as they should be. In .02-.04 limit for example, the blinds are .02 and .04, when they should be .01 and .02. This makes the opening raise size to .06, when it should be .04. Now, due to this fact you would have to have .005 and .01 blinds, if you want to keep the .01-.02, limit tables. This would be fine, and I would make 5 of those as well. Currently at the .01-.02 limit tables the blinds are .01 and .02, and the opening raise size is .03, when it should be .02, and blinds .01 and .01. That would actually work too, so either .005 and .01 blinds, or .01 and .01, if you can't do 3 decimal points.
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April 29, 2011, 05:24:11 PM
 #190

Good work, hippich! This leaves me with an interesting question: Do I now owe you 10 BTC for identifying your own thief? I'll go with whatever the community says, but I'd prefer to make it my first contribution to a pool for paying similar bounties in the future, which I may start later today. Thefts like this will only become more common as the community grows.

If you want to donate to project - you are free to do it. =)

As for information I posted here I got from google and another bitcoin forum member. If he wants me to disclose his nickname - I can do it. That's been said - this info do not identify exact physical person, so I do not believe bounty should be paid anyway =)

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April 29, 2011, 05:30:50 PM
 #191

Second, I have some suggestions, you need to adjust your tables really.

Thanks for your input. I would like to hear what other members think about best combination of tables. This part is matter of messing with configuration files, so I can implement this fairly easy.

Also I never played anything beside hold'em, so I really do not know any details about other poker games (it just came with software and I left it as is). If there are bugs with it - please let me know. Probably it will make sense to push bug report to server software author.

Finally, you must fix the structure in limit tables. The problem is, the software makes the blinds 2x big as they should be. In .02-.04 limit for example, the blinds are .02 and .04, when they should be .01 and .02. This makes the opening raise size to .06, when it should be .04. Now, due to this fact you would have to have .005 and .01 blinds, if you want to keep the .01-.02, limit tables. This would be fine, and I would make 5 of those as well. Currently at the .01-.02 limit tables the blinds are .01 and .02, and the opening raise size is .03, when it should be .02, and blinds .01 and .01. That would actually work too, so either .005 and .01 blinds, or .01 and .01, if you can't do 3 decimal points.

Could someone else comment on this too? I do not have much experience in poker, but I always believe .01-.02 should refer to small and big blinds. Is this really incorrect? Any examples?

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April 29, 2011, 05:31:21 PM
 #192

I wouldn't mind a rake - if it keeps you in business, go for it. Just not too big Wink
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April 29, 2011, 05:32:41 PM
 #193

What is adequate size of rake?

Keeping in mind bugness and beta state of software.. =))

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April 29, 2011, 06:16:41 PM
 #194

What is adequate size of rake?

Keeping in mind bugness and beta state of software.. =))

I'd use the rake structure of pokerstars or fulltilt.
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April 29, 2011, 06:23:39 PM
 #195

They have complicated enough rake structure tho.. i will probably try to implement it as 5% with some fixed cap for all table for now. Implementing rake per table will be too much for me right now =) But do not afraid - I have more important stuff to work on so this room will be rake-free for a while. But donations/tips are always welcomed! =)

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April 29, 2011, 06:27:30 PM
 #196

Second, I have some suggestions, you need to adjust your tables really.

Thanks for your input. I would like to hear what other members think about best combination of tables. This part is matter of messing with configuration files, so I can implement this fairly easy.

Also I never played anything beside hold'em, so I really do not know any details about other poker games (it just came with software and I left it as is). If there are bugs with it - please let me know. Probably it will make sense to push bug report to server software author.

Finally, you must fix the structure in limit tables. The problem is, the software makes the blinds 2x big as they should be. In .02-.04 limit for example, the blinds are .02 and .04, when they should be .01 and .02. This makes the opening raise size to .06, when it should be .04. Now, due to this fact you would have to have .005 and .01 blinds, if you want to keep the .01-.02, limit tables. This would be fine, and I would make 5 of those as well. Currently at the .01-.02 limit tables the blinds are .01 and .02, and the opening raise size is .03, when it should be .02, and blinds .01 and .01. That would actually work too, so either .005 and .01 blinds, or .01 and .01, if you can't do 3 decimal points.

Could someone else comment on this too? I do not have much experience in poker, but I always believe .01-.02 should refer to small and big blinds. Is this really incorrect? Any examples?

I personally play HU only and 7-game. There should definitely be HU only tables so people can focus on the game rather than worry about people joining in.
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April 29, 2011, 06:27:52 PM
 #197

ewww 5%... Thats not much on small pots but damn that would be REALLY annoying!
start with 3%!

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April 29, 2011, 06:30:57 PM
 #198

ewww 5%... Thats not much on small pots but damn that would be REALLY annoying!
start with 3%!

5% with cap, not 5% from the whole pot. in November i had 3% rake without limit. it was annoying to some guys when they were playing with hundreds in stakes. =) Cap I believe should be somehow correlated with blinds size.

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April 29, 2011, 09:46:28 PM
 #199

Just FYI, I was playing with a couple of people at .50/1 no limit and there was close to 1000 BTC on the table... It was an exciting evening to say the least.  This guy named First took all my BTC!!! ;-)

-EP

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April 29, 2011, 09:47:43 PM
 #200

wow.. that's close to $3k. real stuff!

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April 29, 2011, 09:48:44 PM
 #201

wow.. that's close to $3k. real stuff!

yeah, you're telling me... I had my heart set on winning it all and buying a bus for my band... Sigh....  Well at least it wasn't "real" money.

-EP

YOU CAN TRUST ME! EPiSKiNG-'s COINS!! BUYING / SELLING BTC - USA --- View my OTC Trading Feedback!!
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April 29, 2011, 09:50:58 PM
 #202

wow.. that's close to $3k. real stuff!

yeah, you're telling me... I had my heart set on winning it all and buying a bus for my band... Sigh....  Well at least it wasn't "real" money.

-EP

Hehe. I was telling same "it's not real money" when I found someone took all bitcoins... =))

On the other note, someone contacted me via email as mikerka and said he decide to return money. So fingers crossed.. =)

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April 29, 2011, 09:53:32 PM
 #203

wow.. that's close to $3k. real stuff!

yeah, you're telling me... I had my heart set on winning it all and buying a bus for my band... Sigh....  Well at least it wasn't "real" money.

-EP

Hehe. I was telling same "it's not real money" when I found someone took all bitcoins... =))

On the other note, someone contacted me via email as mikerka and said he decide to return money. So fingers crossed.. =)

That's good to know... I wonder if he's trying to see if he can get traced somehow... Have a bunch of poker playing bitcoiners showing up at his house with guns.  ha.

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April 29, 2011, 09:56:32 PM
 #204

It would be great if there were boards to play with fake money only, perhaps use the Bitcoin test network :p

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April 29, 2011, 09:58:15 PM
 #205

wow.. that's close to $3k. real stuff!

yeah, you're telling me... I had my heart set on winning it all and buying a bus for my band... Sigh....  Well at least it wasn't "real" money.

-EP

Hehe. I was telling same "it's not real money" when I found someone took all bitcoins... =))

On the other note, someone contacted me via email as mikerka and said he decide to return money. So fingers crossed.. =)

That's good to know... I wonder if he's trying to see if he can get traced somehow... Have a bunch of poker playing bitcoiners showing up at his house with guns.  ha.

Probably his point is just to teach me or something like this. Bug was really stupid. Anyway, let me see coins on my address first. This email could come from anybody.

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April 29, 2011, 10:56:46 PM
 #206

Second, I have some suggestions, you need to adjust your tables really.

Thanks for your input. I would like to hear what other members think about best combination of tables. This part is matter of messing with configuration files, so I can implement this fairly easy.

Also I never played anything beside hold'em, so I really do not know any details about other poker games (it just came with software and I left it as is). If there are bugs with it - please let me know. Probably it will make sense to push bug report to server software author.

Finally, you must fix the structure in limit tables. The problem is, the software makes the blinds 2x big as they should be. In .02-.04 limit for example, the blinds are .02 and .04, when they should be .01 and .02. This makes the opening raise size to .06, when it should be .04. Now, due to this fact you would have to have .005 and .01 blinds, if you want to keep the .01-.02, limit tables. This would be fine, and I would make 5 of those as well. Currently at the .01-.02 limit tables the blinds are .01 and .02, and the opening raise size is .03, when it should be .02, and blinds .01 and .01. That would actually work too, so either .005 and .01 blinds, or .01 and .01, if you can't do 3 decimal points.

Could someone else comment on this too? I do not have much experience in poker, but I always believe .01-.02 should refer to small and big blinds. Is this really incorrect? Any examples?

Yes I am correct. Open a play money pokerstars table, with limit betting. 200/400 limit holdem has 100/200 blinds. etc

Also I forgot one VERY important thing

You must implement all hands to be shown at showdown. At current time, sometimes only winning hand is shown. This is to prevent teamplay/collusion, people working together. All players on table should be able to see the losing hand, at least in the "dealer chat" window.
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April 29, 2011, 11:38:54 PM
 #207

What is adequate size of rake?

Keeping in mind bugness and beta state of software.. =))

I'd use the rake structure of pokerstars or fulltilt.

This is bad for a variety of reasons.

First of all the rake is really high at pokerstars and fulltilt. they had complete control of the US market so people didnt really have a choice.,...but it was really bad...

micro, and low stakes cash was almost unbeatable.

also those two sites had points and vip programs or rakeback, which ended up giving up to 40% of the rake back to the players

Plus since its really buggy...just keep working on it..

It is your choice what to charge for rake, but people are voluntarily playing here...and they don't HAVE to..if u charge the rake too high they might stop....In my opinion just start off charging 1% in rake...WITH a cap...at like 100bb....so the most ur taking off a pot is 1bb....also the pot should be a minimum of around 5bb to qualify to be raked...and the pot should see the flop, no preflop only rake

If you follow these guidelines, I think it'd be fine to start charging rake immediately.
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April 30, 2011, 01:27:01 AM
 #208

Second, I have some suggestions, you need to adjust your tables really.

Thanks for your input. I would like to hear what other members think about best combination of tables. This part is matter of messing with configuration files, so I can implement this fairly easy.

Also I never played anything beside hold'em, so I really do not know any details about other poker games (it just came with software and I left it as is). If there are bugs with it - please let me know. Probably it will make sense to push bug report to server software author.

Finally, you must fix the structure in limit tables. The problem is, the software makes the blinds 2x big as they should be. In .02-.04 limit for example, the blinds are .02 and .04, when they should be .01 and .02. This makes the opening raise size to .06, when it should be .04. Now, due to this fact you would have to have .005 and .01 blinds, if you want to keep the .01-.02, limit tables. This would be fine, and I would make 5 of those as well. Currently at the .01-.02 limit tables the blinds are .01 and .02, and the opening raise size is .03, when it should be .02, and blinds .01 and .01. That would actually work too, so either .005 and .01 blinds, or .01 and .01, if you can't do 3 decimal points.

Could someone else comment on this too? I do not have much experience in poker, but I always believe .01-.02 should refer to small and big blinds. Is this really incorrect? Any examples?

Yes I am correct. Open a play money pokerstars table, with limit betting. 200/400 limit holdem has 100/200 blinds. etc

Also I forgot one VERY important thing

You must implement all hands to be shown at showdown. At current time, sometimes only winning hand is shown. This is to prevent teamplay/collusion, people working together. All players on table should be able to see the losing hand, at least in the "dealer chat" window.

Please don't do this.  Just because a lot of online sites do this doesn't mean it's a good idea.  If you do this in live poker, you'll get a kick in the nuts if you do it too much.  Although this rule is supposedly designed to prevent collusion, it is very rare that it actually is.  However, a lot of nits like it since they get to see what people had.
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April 30, 2011, 01:40:36 AM
 #209

Second, I have some suggestions, you need to adjust your tables really.

Thanks for your input. I would like to hear what other members think about best combination of tables. This part is matter of messing with configuration files, so I can implement this fairly easy.

Also I never played anything beside hold'em, so I really do not know any details about other poker games (it just came with software and I left it as is). If there are bugs with it - please let me know. Probably it will make sense to push bug report to server software author.

Finally, you must fix the structure in limit tables. The problem is, the software makes the blinds 2x big as they should be. In .02-.04 limit for example, the blinds are .02 and .04, when they should be .01 and .02. This makes the opening raise size to .06, when it should be .04. Now, due to this fact you would have to have .005 and .01 blinds, if you want to keep the .01-.02, limit tables. This would be fine, and I would make 5 of those as well. Currently at the .01-.02 limit tables the blinds are .01 and .02, and the opening raise size is .03, when it should be .02, and blinds .01 and .01. That would actually work too, so either .005 and .01 blinds, or .01 and .01, if you can't do 3 decimal points.

Could someone else comment on this too? I do not have much experience in poker, but I always believe .01-.02 should refer to small and big blinds. Is this really incorrect? Any examples?

Yes I am correct. Open a play money pokerstars table, with limit betting. 200/400 limit holdem has 100/200 blinds. etc

Also I forgot one VERY important thing

You must implement all hands to be shown at showdown. At current time, sometimes only winning hand is shown. This is to prevent teamplay/collusion, people working together. All players on table should be able to see the losing hand, at least in the "dealer chat" window.

Please don't do this.  Just because a lot of online sites do this doesn't mean it's a good idea.  If you do this in live poker, you'll get a kick in the nuts if you do it too much.  Although this rule is supposedly designed to prevent collusion, it is very rare that it actually is.  However, a lot of nits like it since they get to see what people had.

Yeah, I mean, if everyone could see the hands, then what value would bluffing have?  I know Tom wouldn't want that!  ;-)

-EP

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April 30, 2011, 12:38:42 PM
 #210

Second, I have some suggestions, you need to adjust your tables really.

Thanks for your input. I would like to hear what other members think about best combination of tables. This part is matter of messing with configuration files, so I can implement this fairly easy.

Also I never played anything beside hold'em, so I really do not know any details about other poker games (it just came with software and I left it as is). If there are bugs with it - please let me know. Probably it will make sense to push bug report to server software author.

Finally, you must fix the structure in limit tables. The problem is, the software makes the blinds 2x big as they should be. In .02-.04 limit for example, the blinds are .02 and .04, when they should be .01 and .02. This makes the opening raise size to .06, when it should be .04. Now, due to this fact you would have to have .005 and .01 blinds, if you want to keep the .01-.02, limit tables. This would be fine, and I would make 5 of those as well. Currently at the .01-.02 limit tables the blinds are .01 and .02, and the opening raise size is .03, when it should be .02, and blinds .01 and .01. That would actually work too, so either .005 and .01 blinds, or .01 and .01, if you can't do 3 decimal points.

Could someone else comment on this too? I do not have much experience in poker, but I always believe .01-.02 should refer to small and big blinds. Is this really incorrect? Any examples?

Yes I am correct. Open a play money pokerstars table, with limit betting. 200/400 limit holdem has 100/200 blinds. etc

Also I forgot one VERY important thing

You must implement all hands to be shown at showdown. At current time, sometimes only winning hand is shown. This is to prevent teamplay/collusion, people working together. All players on table should be able to see the losing hand, at least in the "dealer chat" window.

Please don't do this.  Just because a lot of online sites do this doesn't mean it's a good idea.  If you do this in live poker, you'll get a kick in the nuts if you do it too much.  Although this rule is supposedly designed to prevent collusion, it is very rare that it actually is.  However, a lot of nits like it since they get to see what people had.

Sorry but its completely different in live poker, Tom. In live poker, it is quite easy to tell if people are communicating, signaling, or using strange speech in order to telegraph their hands or the strength of their hands. In online poker, it is impossible, its just anonymous and anyone can come in with a friend and start sharing hole cards over the phone or an IM program. It is essential that this feature be implemented until there is sufficient support to review hand histories and prevent collusion. Preventing cheating and maintaining game integrity should be the #1 priority of this poker site.

I don't care if one gets a kick in the nuts for doing it live. For the record, I have played thousands of hours live and have never once asked to see someones mucked hand. I hope you can understand how completely different it is. Hands go to showdown around 5% of the time anyways, so its not like its gonna be showing your cards every hand. It will simply show the cards when someone bets with the best hand and someone else calls with a worse hand, it needs to show what worse hand they were calling with, this is extremely important if you just think about it for 5 seconds, come on man. It already shows someones hand if they are bluffing, at least if they are out of position, I'm pretty sure the software shows the bluffers hand and then shows the callers winning hand (but only if the caller had position, this should happen regardless).

There is a lot of differences between online and live poker, and one of them is you need to be able to see all hands that went to showdown, every time. You don't want your hand to be seen, then go play live poker and kick people in the nuts for asking. You wanna come on here, then abide by the rules. There's a damn good reason online poker has its own set of rules, that have been carefully honed and perfected by Full Tilt and Stars, the two main sites in the US market till recently. Its because those rules are the best rules for running an online poker room. Just because the rule only prevents collusion rarely, that is your argument for not having it? That is a god-awful argument, not trying to be a dick, just speaking my mind. It shouldn't matter at all how often it prevents collusion, if it does it ONCE its worth having.
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April 30, 2011, 02:28:27 PM
 #211

Second, I have some suggestions, you need to adjust your tables really.

Thanks for your input. I would like to hear what other members think about best combination of tables. This part is matter of messing with configuration files, so I can implement this fairly easy.

Also I never played anything beside hold'em, so I really do not know any details about other poker games (it just came with software and I left it as is). If there are bugs with it - please let me know. Probably it will make sense to push bug report to server software author.

Finally, you must fix the structure in limit tables. The problem is, the software makes the blinds 2x big as they should be. In .02-.04 limit for example, the blinds are .02 and .04, when they should be .01 and .02. This makes the opening raise size to .06, when it should be .04. Now, due to this fact you would have to have .005 and .01 blinds, if you want to keep the .01-.02, limit tables. This would be fine, and I would make 5 of those as well. Currently at the .01-.02 limit tables the blinds are .01 and .02, and the opening raise size is .03, when it should be .02, and blinds .01 and .01. That would actually work too, so either .005 and .01 blinds, or .01 and .01, if you can't do 3 decimal points.

Could someone else comment on this too? I do not have much experience in poker, but I always believe .01-.02 should refer to small and big blinds. Is this really incorrect? Any examples?

Yes I am correct. Open a play money pokerstars table, with limit betting. 200/400 limit holdem has 100/200 blinds. etc

Also I forgot one VERY important thing

You must implement all hands to be shown at showdown. At current time, sometimes only winning hand is shown. This is to prevent teamplay/collusion, people working together. All players on table should be able to see the losing hand, at least in the "dealer chat" window.

Please don't do this.  Just because a lot of online sites do this doesn't mean it's a good idea.  If you do this in live poker, you'll get a kick in the nuts if you do it too much.  Although this rule is supposedly designed to prevent collusion, it is very rare that it actually is.  However, a lot of nits like it since they get to see what people had.

Sorry but its completely different in live poker, Tom. In live poker, it is quite easy to tell if people are communicating, signaling, or using strange speech in order to telegraph their hands or the strength of their hands. In online poker, it is impossible, its just anonymous and anyone can come in with a friend and start sharing hole cards over the phone or an IM program. It is essential that this feature be implemented until there is sufficient support to review hand histories and prevent collusion. Preventing cheating and maintaining game integrity should be the #1 priority of this poker site.

I don't care if one gets a kick in the nuts for doing it live. For the record, I have played thousands of hours live and have never once asked to see someones mucked hand. I hope you can understand how completely different it is. Hands go to showdown around 5% of the time anyways, so its not like its gonna be showing your cards every hand. It will simply show the cards when someone bets with the best hand and someone else calls with a worse hand, it needs to show what worse hand they were calling with, this is extremely important if you just think about it for 5 seconds, come on man. It already shows someones hand if they are bluffing, at least if they are out of position, I'm pretty sure the software shows the bluffers hand and then shows the callers winning hand (but only if the caller had position, this should happen regardless).

There is a lot of differences between online and live poker, and one of them is you need to be able to see all hands that went to showdown, every time. You don't want your hand to be seen, then go play live poker and kick people in the nuts for asking. You wanna come on here, then abide by the rules. There's a damn good reason online poker has its own set of rules, that have been carefully honed and perfected by Full Tilt and Stars, the two main sites in the US market till recently. Its because those rules are the best rules for running an online poker room. Just because the rule only prevents collusion rarely, that is your argument for not having it? That is a god-awful argument, not trying to be a dick, just speaking my mind. It shouldn't matter at all how often it prevents collusion, if it does it ONCE its worth having.

So tell me how you detect collusion using that rule?  And why wouldn't the colluders just fold on the end to avoid detection?

It doesn't detect anything except for figuring out what people folded, giving you more information on how they play.  The rule doesn't protect collusion at all.

BTW- I have played at several online sites that do not show hands at the end.  Much more enjoyable than the bot-fest infected FTP and PS.
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April 30, 2011, 03:14:55 PM
 #212

Bot fest infected? It is a known fact that other sites such as bodog, ub/ap, had well known botting problems that still exist, whereas stars/ftp at least had good support and eliminated bots when they first showed up on the sites, as well as having built in security now like captcha, not to mention a huge database of real player hand histories, to compare with suspected bot users.

The reason all cards must be shown at showdown is not due to when two colluders are HU in a pot, can't believe I have to explain this to you.

Its when a pot is multiway and someone is squeezed in between, and then river goes like one colluder bets the other colluder calls, and the person squeezed in between folds.....and then the callers hand is just mucked. Huge edges can be gained by making someone make incorrect folds in big bet games, such as no limit holdem. Implementing this rule we are discussing...This would be a very good situation and there is LITERALLY NO DOWNSIDE....more information is exchanged but like I said 5% of hands go to showdown anyways and the information is exchanged uniformly, it doesnt benefit anyone specifically, which is FAIR GAME.

I have tried to explain rationally why these are the rules basically everywhere, and you talk about sites that have a .0001% market share. How about you name some of the sites that have this supposed rule? I doubt you even can because they don't exist anymore. Stars/FTP had 90% of US market share for a reason, it was a pure free market, and they had the best game integrity, and customer service. Agreed, it was pretty terrible but it was the best in the industry, and as far as anyone can tell they both ran a fair game.
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April 30, 2011, 04:30:57 PM
 #213

All hands that go to showdown *must* be visible to anyone.  It is "rude" to ask the dealer to show "both hands" or "all hands".. but you are allowed to for good reason.  As someone who has paid tens of k's in rake in my life; I would consider this an essential feature.
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April 30, 2011, 11:53:31 PM
 #214

On the withdrawal security hole issue, I think a reasonable defense is something like:

* associate addresses with user accounts
* track deposits from each address associated with an account as a percentage of total deposits (see below)
* limit cumulative automatic withdrawals to an address to that percentage of account value
* users can optionally provide a public key for their account; if a user wishes to withdraw outside of the above constraints they request the site to send an email encrypted with that public key to them with a confirmation code.  The user then responds with the confirmation code and the amount to withdraw and the address to withdraw to and signs the response.  The withdrawal is then processed manually.

Computation of percentage would proceed as in this example:

* Initial deposit from address A for 10 BTC.  Address A now has a 100% deposit share for the account.
* Player builds balance to 20 BTC.  Address A's 100% share means that the whole account could be withdrawn in one-click to address A.
* Deposit of 5 BTC from address B.  Address B is assigned a share of 20% and address A's share is diluted to 80%.  The withdrawal maximums are now 20 BTC for A and 5 BTC for B.
* Balance declines to 15 BTC.  Address A's withdrawal limit is now 12 BTC and address B's is 3 BTC.
* Withdrawal to address B of 2 BTC.  Address B's share decreases to 7.6923076923...% ( (3-2)/(15-2); rounding error can be handled by for instance allowing any excess to be withdrawn from the account with the greatest share) and address A's increases to 92.3076...%.

(this is all based on speculation that the attacker in this case found a vulnerability that allowed the requestor to request a withdrawal to an arbitrary address)

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hippich
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May 01, 2011, 01:14:31 AM
 #215

the particular security issue hacker used will not be avoided by technique you describe. Any code can have security issues. My bug was so simple... =)) Here is it - https://github.com/hippich/Bitcoin-Poker-Room/commit/ef5f1a181fb207fe5e1260b3190835384fe99190

I am using much more stupid but rigid system - coins are transferred from server to my own local wallet. Only small change is left to process small withdrawal amounts. Big ones proceeded manually. So even if code will be hacked (and this happens), only change will be lost, not the whole balance.

On the other note - hacker, who contacted me, never replied nor sent funds. So either he was not real hacker or just decided to use money instead of returning.

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May 01, 2011, 01:22:01 AM
 #216

Yes I am correct. Open a play money pokerstars table, with limit betting. 200/400 limit holdem has 100/200 blinds. etc

I do not have a lot experience in online poker, so I am sorry for stupid questions.. Could you explain what is referenced by these 200/400 then if blinds are 100/200?


You must implement all hands to be shown at showdown. At current time, sometimes only winning hand is shown. This is to prevent teamplay/collusion, people working together. All players on table should be able to see the losing hand, at least in the "dealer chat" window.

The whole server I believe is built around idea of dealing with hands like in real poker. I do not believe I will be able at this point modify code to enforce showdown cards in the end of game (I do not have needed skills for this).

I still believe our community is small enough to have such problems. If you do not believe to someone - do not play with them.

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May 01, 2011, 01:32:20 AM
 #217

Just rechecked transactions. Found that not all hacker's withdrawals were successful. Only 680 btc stolen.

tomcollins
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May 01, 2011, 01:35:57 AM
 #218

Bot fest infected? It is a known fact that other sites such as bodog, ub/ap, had well known botting problems that still exist, whereas stars/ftp at least had good support and eliminated bots when they first showed up on the sites, as well as having built in security now like captcha, not to mention a huge database of real player hand histories, to compare with suspected bot users.

The reason all cards must be shown at showdown is not due to when two colluders are HU in a pot, can't believe I have to explain this to you.

Its when a pot is multiway and someone is squeezed in between, and then river goes like one colluder bets the other colluder calls, and the person squeezed in between folds.....and then the callers hand is just mucked. Huge edges can be gained by making someone make incorrect folds in big bet games, such as no limit holdem. Implementing this rule we are discussing...This would be a very good situation and there is LITERALLY NO DOWNSIDE....more information is exchanged but like I said 5% of hands go to showdown anyways and the information is exchanged uniformly, it doesnt benefit anyone specifically, which is FAIR GAME.

I have tried to explain rationally why these are the rules basically everywhere, and you talk about sites that have a .0001% market share. How about you name some of the sites that have this supposed rule? I doubt you even can because they don't exist anymore. Stars/FTP had 90% of US market share for a reason, it was a pure free market, and they had the best game integrity, and customer service. Agreed, it was pretty terrible but it was the best in the industry, and as far as anyone can tell they both ran a fair game.

LITERALLY NO DOWNSIDE - except the entire table seeing what you had.

What is the upside?  The case that two colluders both call on the river?  Why wouldn't one colluder raise the other or just fold?

One I know off the top of my head is TruePoker.  You *can* see showdown hands, but you have to go through a bunch of menus and ask to have it emailed, and it takes 15-20 minutes to show up.

But hey, I know it would hurt you a lot if you are used to playing with HUDs and other "cheating" programs.  Stars/FTP had 90% of the market because they had huge advertising, had solid software, and catered to 20-tablers.  The more auto-pilot HUD-bots they had, the more rake they made as everyone passed money around.
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May 01, 2011, 01:40:23 AM
 #219

Yes I am correct. Open a play money pokerstars table, with limit betting. 200/400 limit holdem has 100/200 blinds. etc

I do not have a lot experience in online poker, so I am sorry for stupid questions.. Could you explain what is referenced by these 200/400 then if blinds are 100/200?


You must implement all hands to be shown at showdown. At current time, sometimes only winning hand is shown. This is to prevent teamplay/collusion, people working together. All players on table should be able to see the losing hand, at least in the "dealer chat" window.

The whole server I believe is built around idea of dealing with hands like in real poker. I do not believe I will be able at this point modify code to enforce showdown cards in the end of game (I do not have needed skills for this).

I still believe our community is small enough to have such problems. If you do not believe to someone - do not play with them.

200/400 refers to the bet size, not the blinds, in limit poker.

NL poker does not have fixed bet sizes, so it refers to the blinds.

Colluders and cheaters are perfectly capable of cheating and colluding without being able to be caught by the showdown rule.  They are really hard to catch online.  Fortunately, most are really bad at what they do so they either are super obvious or end up not making anything out of it.  The rule is much more useful in limit poker, where a 4-bet fold is really odd on the river, so they have to call.  Also, bluffing with complete trash is a lot harder to pull off, and colluding is a lot more powerful since you can see-saw people and make big pots when you have hands, and they have no way to counter.  In big bet poker, anyone can raise any amount, so it makes it that much harder to get a benefit from colluding.
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May 01, 2011, 01:44:55 AM
 #220

200/400 refers to the bet size, not the blinds, in limit poker.
NL poker does not have fixed bet sizes, so it refers to the blinds.

Oh. Now it makes more sense. I will reconfigure tables once room will be empty since I need to restart server to changes take effect.


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May 01, 2011, 01:47:58 AM
 #221

200/400 refers to the bet size, not the blinds, in limit poker.
NL poker does not have fixed bet sizes, so it refers to the blinds.

Oh. Now it makes more sense. I will reconfigure tables once room will be empty since I need to restart server to changes take effect.



BTW, if you want poker lessons, come to my home game, I will "teach" you. Smiley
tanerlorn
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May 01, 2011, 09:10:32 AM
 #222

Bot fest infected? It is a known fact that other sites such as bodog, ub/ap, had well known botting problems that still exist, whereas stars/ftp at least had good support and eliminated bots when they first showed up on the sites, as well as having built in security now like captcha, not to mention a huge database of real player hand histories, to compare with suspected bot users.

The reason all cards must be shown at showdown is not due to when two colluders are HU in a pot, can't believe I have to explain this to you.

Its when a pot is multiway and someone is squeezed in between, and then river goes like one colluder bets the other colluder calls, and the person squeezed in between folds.....and then the callers hand is just mucked. Huge edges can be gained by making someone make incorrect folds in big bet games, such as no limit holdem. Implementing this rule we are discussing...This would be a very good situation and there is LITERALLY NO DOWNSIDE....more information is exchanged but like I said 5% of hands go to showdown anyways and the information is exchanged uniformly, it doesnt benefit anyone specifically, which is FAIR GAME.

I have tried to explain rationally why these are the rules basically everywhere, and you talk about sites that have a .0001% market share. How about you name some of the sites that have this supposed rule? I doubt you even can because they don't exist anymore. Stars/FTP had 90% of US market share for a reason, it was a pure free market, and they had the best game integrity, and customer service. Agreed, it was pretty terrible but it was the best in the industry, and as far as anyone can tell they both ran a fair game.

LITERALLY NO DOWNSIDE - except the entire table seeing what you had.

What is the upside?  The case that two colluders both call on the river?  Why wouldn't one colluder raise the other or just fold?

One I know off the top of my head is TruePoker.  You *can* see showdown hands, but you have to go through a bunch of menus and ask to have it emailed, and it takes 15-20 minutes to show up.

But hey, I know it would hurt you a lot if you are used to playing with HUDs and other "cheating" programs.  Stars/FTP had 90% of the market because they had huge advertising, had solid software, and catered to 20-tablers.  The more auto-pilot HUD-bots they had, the more rake they made as everyone passed money around.

Sigh, dude I just explained the upside. Its amazing, really it is. Here we go one more time.

Colluder 1 makes a large bet on the river with middle pair. Colluder 2 is next to act, he calls the large bet with 7 high, something he would never do if playing legitimately. Legitimate Player 1 is next to act, he was planning to call Colluder 1's bet with top pair, but after seeing Colluder 2 call, he folds his hand.

Do you really not see how its different if "one of the colluders just folds on the end"?

Do you really not see that there could be other situations like this, where showdown cards must be shown to maintain game integrity?

Hippich, if you currently don't have the skills to code this, I suggest you make it your top priority to learn them. As much as you want to call this a "play money" site, the fact is bitcoins are easily exchangable for dollars and there are people already playing for them here. .50/1.00 btc is essentially high stakes since its basically 2/4 usd now. It's easy to say "if you feel something is fishy, you don't have to play," but the fact is when it comes to gambling people don't always think rationally, and can't help themselves and will lose and continue to play in a game where they can tell something is "off" but aren't exactly sure what or are trying to get lucky and win some of their money back.

Eof, thank you for backing me up on this, I have also payed tens of thousands of dollars in rake and was getting frustrated nobody here would agree with me. I guess if you're a losing player it doesn't matter to you much, you're gonna lose anyways, what does it matter who its to? Its the winning players who are much more affected by this as colluders take money that could be won by legitimate players.

Tom, you're simply very, very wrong. Colluding is not much more valuable in limit poker, its in no limit, where you can force people to make huge mistakes, such as 50bb losing mistakes. Where can you force someone out of a 50bb pot in limit? Its not possible. You still have yet to name one poker room that doesn't show all hands that went to showdown. True Poker still does, as you admit yourself. I would be fine with it taking 15 minutes and an email to get the information on betcoin, as long as the information IS available. Furthermore, your assumption that I am some 20-tabling HUD user, cashgamer, looking to hustle this site could not POSSIBLY be more wrong. I am a mtter, I never used a HUD and you show a complete lack of understanding of that software, the value does not reside in seeing people's mucked hands, the value is in large amounts of data on peoples folding frequencies and aggression levels on each street. Whether or not you can see people's mucked cards literally doesn't make a bit of difference in the effectiveness of a HUD.
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May 01, 2011, 12:52:37 PM
 #223

Bot fest infected? It is a known fact that other sites such as bodog, ub/ap, had well known botting problems that still exist, whereas stars/ftp at least had good support and eliminated bots when they first showed up on the sites, as well as having built in security now like captcha, not to mention a huge database of real player hand histories, to compare with suspected bot users.

The reason all cards must be shown at showdown is not due to when two colluders are HU in a pot, can't believe I have to explain this to you.

Its when a pot is multiway and someone is squeezed in between, and then river goes like one colluder bets the other colluder calls, and the person squeezed in between folds.....and then the callers hand is just mucked. Huge edges can be gained by making someone make incorrect folds in big bet games, such as no limit holdem. Implementing this rule we are discussing...This would be a very good situation and there is LITERALLY NO DOWNSIDE....more information is exchanged but like I said 5% of hands go to showdown anyways and the information is exchanged uniformly, it doesnt benefit anyone specifically, which is FAIR GAME.

I have tried to explain rationally why these are the rules basically everywhere, and you talk about sites that have a .0001% market share. How about you name some of the sites that have this supposed rule? I doubt you even can because they don't exist anymore. Stars/FTP had 90% of US market share for a reason, it was a pure free market, and they had the best game integrity, and customer service. Agreed, it was pretty terrible but it was the best in the industry, and as far as anyone can tell they both ran a fair game.

LITERALLY NO DOWNSIDE - except the entire table seeing what you had.

What is the upside?  The case that two colluders both call on the river?  Why wouldn't one colluder raise the other or just fold?

One I know off the top of my head is TruePoker.  You *can* see showdown hands, but you have to go through a bunch of menus and ask to have it emailed, and it takes 15-20 minutes to show up.

But hey, I know it would hurt you a lot if you are used to playing with HUDs and other "cheating" programs.  Stars/FTP had 90% of the market because they had huge advertising, had solid software, and catered to 20-tablers.  The more auto-pilot HUD-bots they had, the more rake they made as everyone passed money around.
[/quote]

Sigh, dude I just explained the upside. Its amazing, really it is. Here we go one more time.

Colluder 1 makes a large bet on the river with middle pair. Colluder 2 is next to act, he calls the large bet with 7 high, something he would never do if playing legitimately. Legitimate Player 1 is next to act, he was planning to call Colluder 1's bet with top pair, but after seeing Colluder 2 call, he folds his hand.

[/quote]

So there is one tiny case he does this.  Instead, 2nd guy could raise the river.  When the "victim" calls, he gets twice as much.  Oh noes, how awful.  The "call a bet to make a guy scared" technique.


Do you really not see how its different if "one of the colluders just folds on the end"?

Do you really not see that there could be other situations like this, where showdown cards must be shown to maintain game integrity?

Since it's so easy, show them to me.  I've played 8 years on a site that never did this, and never once did it "help maintain game integrity".

Hippich, if you currently don't have the skills to code this, I suggest you make it your top priority to learn them. As much as you want to call this a "play money" site, the fact is bitcoins are easily exchangable for dollars and there are people already playing for them here. .50/1.00 btc is essentially high stakes since its basically 2/4 usd now. It's easy to say "if you feel something is fishy, you don't have to play," but the fact is when it comes to gambling people don't always think rationally, and can't help themselves and will lose and continue to play in a game where they can tell something is "off" but aren't exactly sure what or are trying to get lucky and win some of their money back.
TOP PRIORITY I SAY!

Meanwhile, if you actually are competent at colluding, it does nothing.  He has no resources to put into people actually working together, and no time to ban people who might be.

Eof, thank you for backing me up on this, I have also payed tens of thousands of dollars in rake and was getting frustrated nobody here would agree with me. I guess if you're a losing player it doesn't matter to you much, you're gonna lose anyways, what does it matter who its to? Its the winning players who are much more affected by this as colluders take money that could be won by legitimate players.
Yes, losing players are never affected, since all losses are equal.  Another idiotic statement by you.  Winning players are actually be affected, since they don't run out of money.

Tom, you're simply very, very wrong. Colluding is not much more valuable in limit poker, its in no limit, where you can force people to make huge mistakes, such as 50bb losing mistakes. Where can you force someone out of a 50bb pot in limit? Its not possible. You still have yet to name one poker room that doesn't show all hands that went to showdown. True Poker still does, as you admit yourself. I would be fine with it taking 15 minutes and an email to get the information on betcoin, as long as the information IS available. Furthermore, your assumption that I am some 20-tabling HUD user, cashgamer, looking to hustle this site could not POSSIBLY be more wrong. I am a mtter, I never used a HUD and you show a complete lack of understanding of that software, the value does not reside in seeing people's mucked hands, the value is in large amounts of data on peoples folding frequencies and aggression levels on each street. Whether or not you can see people's mucked cards literally doesn't make a bit of difference in the effectiveness of a HUD.
How can you *force* someone to make a 50BB mistake,  by scaring them by calling?  Have you ever played limit poker?  Limit poker is a game of very small edges.  Every time you double an edge, you make a HUGE difference.  In NL poker, skill level makes up a much larger portion, and you can control your bet size.  If I cannot see-saw an opponent (see-sawing is extremely rare to begin with), I don't lose as much as I do in limit poker.  Sure I can scare them by calling, as you insist is a serious problem.  I'm not saying you are looking to hustle the site, but you are looking to instill the same attitude that has made online poker unplayable for the casual user.  "just do whatever ftp and ps did".  I couldn't disagree more from a user's perspective.  Those sites catered to the biggest rake generators, tried to make a game where people paid as much rake as possible while losing as little/winning as little as possible, so that they were the big winners.  This includes catering and allowing HUDs, sites that analyzed play, making it easy to data mine tables you weren't at, allowing way too many tables, and rewarding players who played ridiculous amounts of hands only possible from severe multitabling with huge incentives.  For a grinder, it was perfect.  For a casual player, it's one of the most boring games to play.

I already named one.  You cannot easily get the result of the hand.  You have to jump through a million hoops, then check your email 20 minutes later.  This is FAR different than your require.  Never once did I check due to collusion, but to see what someone had.  If someone was smart enough to collude, and this was actually going to detect them, they just collude better.  Maybe request it if you were in the hand on the river.  Plus, online poker allows for the management to see EVERY hand at any point in time.  If you suspect collusion, notify the operator.  They can check suspicious behavior of 100s of hands easily, and if some guy keeps calling with 7 high, you can catch him very easily looking at hand histories.  My guess is hippich has none of this infrastructure in place yet, so it would be difficult for him.

BTW- I do agree that all showdowns should be shown in a tournament where chip dumping would actually affect the game (unlike in cash game play).

But calling this top priority is laughable.  This site is still in the stone age (no offense hippich, I love what you are doing, it's just super primitive still- which you would expect since this is a spare time type project).  It freezes up, it's slow, there are only one table of any limit, no players, etc...  Hell, it was getting robbed not long ago.  Even if this was important, there are a ton of things even more important to worry about.
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May 01, 2011, 12:57:27 PM
 #224

BTW, if you really are concerned about collusion, just play heads up.

But the blinds being backwards are TOP PRIORITY in my opinion. It changes the game tremendously.
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May 01, 2011, 01:51:06 PM
 #225

Plus, online poker allows for the management to see EVERY hand at any point in time.  If you suspect collusion, notify the operator.  They can check suspicious behavior of 100s of hands easily, and if some guy keeps calling with 7 high, you can catch him very easily looking at hand histories.  My guess is hippich has none of this infrastructure in place yet, so it would be difficult for him.

BTW- I do agree that all showdowns should be shown in a tournament where chip dumping would actually affect the game (unlike in cash game play).

But calling this top priority is laughable.  This site is still in the stone age (no offense hippich, I love what you are doing, it's just super primitive still- which you would expect since this is a spare time type project).  It freezes up, it's slow, there are only one table of any limit, no players, etc...  Hell, it was getting robbed not long ago.  Even if this was important, there are a ton of things even more important to worry about.

This is the whole point. The rule needs to be put in so that the players can police themselves, for the time being, till the project dies or Hippich expands it to include reviewing hand histories. But guess what? The more sure you are, the better, if "if you suspect collusion" well you're gonna be a lot more sure if you're able to see what hands people are going to showdown with. Furthermore, every hand isnt gonna be like the one I described, there is a lot more subtle ways to collude...I used a very obvious way as an example.

I for one cannot simply believe you are arguing that colluding is more profitable in limit games. How can that be possible? You say in one breath that limit games are games of very small edges. THIS PROVES MY POINT. Edges can be very big in no limit games and ffs you can gain these big edges by colluding. I just explained how you can force someone to make a 50bb mistake, if someone has a plan to fold river if someone else calls but call river if everyone else folds. Its really not all that "rare" a situation, and is just one of a million ways that colluders could gain an edge if cards aren't shown.

I understand Hippich has no resources to put into people working together right now and no time to ban people. That is why I suggested in an earlier post that he start charging rake and even went so far as to suggest a structure for it. Once he is making a small profit from it, he can decide if he wants to expand from there.

You clearly have some deep hatred for full tilt and stars, and its easy to guess why. I just cannot believe that your trying to claim that the sites were full of 20 tabling HUD users. Sure, there were a few there, but anytime you have a huge pool of fish, you're gonna attract the sharks. Its part of the game and there were 300k users on stars on an average Sunday. I guess none of them were "casual users" eh? Yeah all 20 tabling pros I'm sure. Haha, the stars tourneys were so filled with casual players it blows my mind that you would say stuff like this. Sunday million got an average of what, 9000 players all putting up $215.....how many of them were professional mtt players? I can give you an estimate since I have some knowledge...around 500.....thats 8500 "casual users" not affected at all by the "rampant HUD use" or "bot like multitablers". and thats just their flagship tourney....11 dollar tourneys would see 30,000 players regularly. All of these players were unaffected by and played despite the fact that their hole card information was available at showdown! Oh noes!

Also blinds being "backwards" changes nothing. It doesn't give advantage to any one player, all players must adjust to it accordingly.
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May 01, 2011, 02:02:43 PM