GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[vabchgent]

Why does everybody over there think BTC is in demise. BTC always has its highs and lows. Personally I think most people are dumping for Christmas.Also might be the Fact they are using BTC to buy XPY and then the BTC is being dumped. 

[bitbollox]

I for one believe that paycoin is a con and got banned from hashtalk for saying so unfortunately I didnt realise till I had bought some coin then when I transferred them to my zen cloud xpy wallet they went missing (now on 840 conformations!) now are these the actions of someone who is legitimate!  [/size][/size][/size]

Welcome to the uncensored GAW discussion. Please read a few pages and decide for your self how bad a GAW investment really is. Most of it is truth backed up by fact.

I have only been into coins for a year but to me its outstandingly  obvious with all the shit coins fake ico ipo and such that there has to be some form of control over who can launch a coin to deter some of the con boys like josh (cant call him a man) and others like him.

[Phildo]

If paycoins are worth 20, why don't they scoop up all these 7 dollar coins to put 13 bucks in their pocket?

Why would they reward dumpers?  Wouldn't they rather reward their faithful paybase users with the wall?

I don't think you understood the question.

There are coins out there that are supposedly valued at $20 each, selling in an exchange for $7. If you believe the $20 hype, then these wild coins are extremely undervalued.

If GAW buys the cheap coins and takes them out of circulation, they have just saved themselves $13 they have to pay out to someone who cashes that coin in on their $20 wall. That seems like common sense.

Look at it this way.  Say there will be 500K coins out in circulation by end of POW.  And GAW expects another 500K of dumping from customers at paybase.  Why would they eat into their own reserves to reward dumpers (GAW is still losing $7 of their reserve per coin to the dumpers)... when they can just buoy their own customer base at the $20 promised?  The miner/dumpers will have to take their low sell bids off of the exchanges and take them to paybase to get $20 per coin.  Removing the low sell bids from the exchanges can increase the value of the remaining coins on the exchanges.

What gets me is that all these GAWites want to buy these cheap coins so they can turn them around for $20 later. They are not doing it to protect Paycoin, they are doing it to cash in... just like everybody else... They are all hypocrites, claiming to protect Paycoin so they can exploit it later. So who is doing more damage now, eh?

I'm in it for the money.  Any honest-with-themselves bitcoiner will tell you the same.


I did buy one coin from an exchange to see if the wallet in Zen would accept it.  I don't like to play the trading game.

They are not eating into the reserve by buying off exchange. According to them they have millions of dollars so that they can give everyone $20 for a paycoin. If they give someone $7  for a paycoin they have $13 to keep, put back into the pool, give to the investors, set on fire, whatever. Every coin they buy for less than 20 bucks gives them more money. It's not that complicated. If I offered to give you a dollar bill if you gave me a quarter how would that eat into your reserve at all? Same thing here.

[keshuker]

I think we have a winner

[deebosch]

Why does paycoin.com use SSL cert of myshopify.com ? Are they connected in any way ?

[Paul Revere]

They are not eating into the reserve by buying off exchange. According to them they have millions of dollars so that they can give everyone $20 for a paycoin. If they give someone $7  for a paycoin they have $13 to keep, put back into the pool, give to the investors, set on fire, whatever. Every coin they buy for less than 20 bucks gives them more money. It's not that complicated. If I offered to give you a dollar bill if you gave me a quarter how would that eat into your reserve at all? Same thing here.

They will never get it. Can you imagine playing poker with these GAWspellers? It would be like John Candy teaching the rube to play poker in Stripes.



OK, First, you put in $20, and then me, I put in $7, because ya see, they are actually the same thing. Oh, and these three aces and two deuces you have are not worth anything, because ya see, I have a Queen, and boy is she pretty. Looks like I win again!

[suchmoon]

Look at it this way.  Say there will be 500K coins out in circulation by end of POW.  And GAW expects another 500K of dumping from customers at paybase.  Why would they eat into their own reserves to reward dumpers (GAW is still losing $7 of their reserve per coin to the dumpers)... when they can just buoy their own customer base at the $20 promised?  The miner/dumpers will have to take their low sell bids off of the exchanges and take them to paybase to get $20 per coin.  Removing the low sell bids from the exchanges can increase the value of the remaining coins on the exchanges.

So you're saying that instead of spending 500x7 = 3.5 million USD to buy up coins now, GAW would rather spend 500 x 20 = 10 million to buy up the same coins later?

The only way this could possibly make sense - and someone mentioned that already - if GAW introduced some kind of hold on external deposits, giving priority to HP conversions. But that would screw all those HT pumpers buying up "cheap" coins on coin-swap now.

[suchmoon]

Why does paycoin.com use SSL cert of myshopify.com ? Are they connected in any way ?

They use shopify web store platform or whatever it is. They are not connected in any way except that GAW uses a shopify product.

[suchmoon]

I think we have a winner

Yep, this is what we call the floor. As long as there is enough of them to buy the coins at full retail $20 - everything will be fine.

[Liquid71]

Ok, so say I make something that violates the terms of service of amazon and sell it to thousands of people. The people using it get in trouble but I get off free as a bird?

It goes back to the age old argument:  Do guns kill people, or do people who use guns kill people?

That's not how it works my friends and regardless of how you read the ToS they're actually interfering with the transactions of the website, not just doing a Google search. LOL how delusional are these shills? Ignored, but feel free to post your useless rebuttal for other people to read. I have no need for futile bickering. I have all the photographic proof I need. Have a good day shills (or should I say Homero Joshua Garza's secondary accounts).

That is how it works.  When *YOU* accept the TOS from Walmart, *YOU* are entering a legal contract with Walmart that *YOU* will obey their terms.  GAW did not enter that contract.

We had the same concerns. After speaking to lawyers at Amazon extensively they've explained it in a way that makes sense to us at least.

The source code for the plugin has to communicate with an outside GAW owned server... meaning that even though the plugin is hosted on the computer of the end-user that GAW is now also "accessing the site" and that makes them liable to follow the TOS just as everyone else does.

The source code from the plugin ZincSave was already downloaded and audited by Amazon (back when it first was a thing before it went offline) and a third party so they are intimately familiar with how it works and the API calls it makes online.

We hope to have our full report online soon. We just got confirmation from Best Buy this morning regarding the situation and a comment from them and are still waiting to hear back from Target once again.

I'd just like to thank Coinfire for their reporting on this and suchmoon for this thread.

[pd62512005]

you know the american revolution ended, oh I dont know. maybe a couple hundred years ago? talk about intelligent

im paul revere lmao... get a job. your dragging my economy down

"the marks" good gravy man you should go work for the free masons as a lawyer. fantastical returns? perhaps you could pull your bottom lip over the top of your head and swallow?

just so were clear there is nothing being "discussed" on this thread.

<sarcasm>

Hey, I think someone hacked your account. You were doing your best to be civil while disagreeing with people here, then all of a sudden you launch once of those childish attacks. You better change your password!

</sarcasm>

yeah huh?

isnt sarcasm supposed to be funny?

 Im lucky i can adapt my response to the level of the OP

I thought you were trying your best to make a point without getting all emotional about it, so seeing your response was unusual.

Is your sarcasm comment sarcastic back to me? Hmm... Did you intend to do that? If so, touche.

The sincerity is much appreciated.

The only point I'm here to make is being made. Anyone can launch a smear campaign, with baseless fodder. The reason we can all talk about pyramid schemes, and ponzi schemes is because there was proof. Not just opinions. When you look for proof the allegations here fall apart. I would refund my purchases if there was proof.
 
Correspondence from GAW:
"We are unable to offer investment advice so I cannot speak as to whether or not I believe this is a good idea or not, but it is certainly possible at this time if you choose to do so. If you wish to process a refund just open a ticket stating as such and someone will process it for you. Also note that refunds can only be processed in the order in which they were originally fulfilled. This means that all btc orders go back as btc to the wallet they came from and all credit card orders go back in the form of a credit to the card originally used for the purchase.

Thank you,
W........"

Anyone can get online and purchase from this company right now, make a purchase and refund it as stated until the PoS stage begins.

The people making reports could do things in a way that addresses both sides of a story not just the typical one sided view. All companies have problems, its how they resolve these issues that matters. When GAW started I wanted to jump in and spend tons of money. I would have generated a lot of wealth. Im sure there were issues. Small company takes on an enormous demand from a lot of money seekers. Wall street is arguably the most cut throat place on earth due to the amount of money changing hands daily and the stakes. I didn't buy early because they were a new company part of an industry with a bad reputation. I do regret that decision.

Out of the claimed 200,000 customers of theirs I see 50, maybe 100 people pissed about different issues. 4 have reported them in the typical legitimate old school ways. 3 resolved satisfactorily Maybe more have secretly. And when that information comes available publicly I will accept it if its factual. I believe most huge retailers would love to have those stats.

@eightcylinders I pray you; Is that not how most money exchanges hands? "man in middle" being Visa, Mastercard, Amex, Discover, Chase, IBLC, etc. When paypal launched I was unaware of a merchant specific platform. Outside the companies before it, Confinity and X.com

I would certainly say Ebay forced paypal on me as much as GAW is forcing XPY on you. Use it if you want the service, don't if you don't. Have you ready either of their terms of service lately? Its an atrocity. And whether XPY is the answer or not remains unseen. But it needs a chance so we can get away from banks taking 10% compounded yearly from all people of the world. Over 98% of the worlds wealth resides in the hands of less than 2% of the population. If it doesn't work, then we need to build on its successes and failures in the future to make a successful coin that will... I will try to be party to it as well.

[Paul Revere]

@eightcylinders I pray you; Is that not how most money exchanges hands? "man in middle" being Visa, Mastercard, Amex, Discover, Chase, IBLC, etc. When paypal launched I was unaware of a merchant specific platform. Outside the companies before it, Confinity and X.com

I would certainly say Ebay forced paypal on me as much as GAW is forcing XPY on you. Use it if you want the service, don't if you don't. Have you ready either of their terms of service lately? Its an atrocity. And whether XPY is the answer or not remains unseen. But it needs a chance so we can get away from banks taking 10% compounded yearly from all people of the world. Over 98% of the worlds wealth resides in the hands of less than 2% of the population. If it doesn't work, then we need to build on its successes and failures in the future to make a successful coin that will... I will try to be party to it as well.

The XPY/Paybase plan uses Federal Reserve Notes as the primary exchange medium and therefore supports the current utterly corrupt Banking System. PERIOD. End of story. What part of this do you not understand?

Idiocracy in action folks.

[pd62512005]

[clip for brevity]

What Zinc did (GAW proposes to do) is interpose a middle-man.  The middle-man takes your Bitcoin/Paycoin and converts it into fiat, then the middle-man makes the purchase on his/her own account but putting your address in as the shipping address.  The "man in the middle" approach creates lots of problems that Amazon, Walmart, etc. will NEVER want to deal with: returns, customer service, shipping issues, etc. all have to be handled through the "man in the middle".  While the customer does not realize there is a "man in the middle" and gets mad at the online retailer... so that is why the TOS of every major e-commerce company prohibits this type of thing.   It is not what Paypal does, nor what Paypal ever did.

Someone needs to explain the diffrence between a middle man and a Financial exchange or a financial service provider. GAW is definetly not registered as a Financial exchange right now. But If there going to do business as a financial exchange in the US they need to register and make it legit as GAWCEO would put it.

There are five "roles" and its good to keep them separate, though they can overlap if one party carries out more than one role (Paypal - see below):

(1) Customer who wants to buy something.

(2) Retailer who wants to sell something to Customer.

(3) Man in the Middle - a person or entity who purchases directly from Retailer and pays Retailer in fiat, and takes XPY/BTC from Customer

(4) Payment Processor (Paypal, Visa, etc.) -- an entity that allows an Account Holder (which could be Customer or Man in the Middle) to make a payment to a Retailer via a line of credit or debit from banking account.

(5) A Financial Institution - issues a line of credit and/or holds funds in a banking account for another party (Customer or Man in the Middle).  In the case of VISA/Mastercard etc. they are linked to Payment Processor via complex agreements.  NOTE that Paypal is in most cases BOTH a Payment Processor AND Financial Institution (part of the genius of Paypal).

Okay, with the definitions in place consider the two different scenarios when Customer purchases an item from Retailer:

SCENARIO A: Zinc/GAW's Man in the Middle

Takes BTC/XPY and order information from a Customer;

Submits order **under the Man in the Middle account** with Retailer, but specifying Customer's shipping address for order;

Pays Retailer in fiat;

Retailer ships to shipping address which happens to be Customer address;

Any returns or customer service issues must be handled between Retailer and Man in the Middle, since Retailer has no idea who Customer is except as a shipping address.

Note that Man in the Middle likely uses a Payment Processor to facilitate payment, but the Payment Processor account will be in the name of the Man in the Middle also.  

SCENARIO B: Purchase Made Via Payment Processor

Customer submits order directly to Retailer on Customer's own account;

Customer pays for order using Payment Processor;

Retailer and Payment Processor have a long, complex agreement that allows Retailer to accept Payment Processor services and typically includes things like forcing Retailer to agree to reversal of transactions (chargebacks), dispute resolution in the case of a chargeback, information security requirements, prohibition on certain types of sales, maintenance of commercial banking accounts for chargeback purposes, etc.

Payment Processor issues credits to Retailer account at the Retailer Financial Institution, and debits Customer's account (line of credit/bank account) at the Customer's Financial Institution.

Retailer ships items to Customer and handles customer service issues, returns, etc. directly with Customer.

You have answered most of my last post. Thanks

[vabchgent]

I somehow get the feeling the floor is going to drop out quicker then the hell hole ride on Monday if not sooner.

[pd62512005]

What part of the XPY plan uses Federal Reserve Notes as the primary exchange medium and therefore supports the current utterly corrupt Banking System do you not understand?

Idiocracy in action folks.

GAW is trying to build value

All most all Crypto-currency has gained legitimacy from Fiat currencies.

How would you build value in a coin? Maybe like XGR or GLD. They always get mined and dumped for whatever reserve there is until they're devoid of value. GAW has a decent, not perfect system to attempt to retain the value through the mine and dumpers.

[jimmothy]

The only point I'm here to make is being made. Anyone can launch a smear campaign, with baseless fodder. The reason we can all talk about pyramid schemes, and ponzi schemes is because there was proof. Not just opinions. When you look for proof the allegations here fall apart. I would refund my purchases if there was proof.

It really doesn't work that way.

As puppet nicely put it:

A ponzi is defined by the absence of a mechanism to generate revenue or profits (in this case: mining hardware). Proving something is a ponzi would therefore require proving a negative. You can not prove a negative, so in theory its possible any of the companies I labeled as "ponzi" are in fact mining. But thats like saying in theory its possible unicorns do exist or that its possible that Nigerian Prince who emailed you yesterday, really inherited a $500M gold mine concession and wants to share it with you. You can not prove thats not true either, but to most sensible people the complete absence of evidence is a very compelling to dismiss the claim, and thus certaily reason enough not to invest there.

All we can do is look for indicators, like paying out the old investors using funds from the new investors (never from actual mining proceeds), refusing to provide a mining address, or showing pics that amount to 1/100th of your claimed mining capacity.

Out of the claimed 200,000 customers of theirs I see 50, maybe 100 people pissed about different issues. 4 have reported them in the typical legitimate old school ways. 3 resolved satisfactorily Maybe more have secretly. And when that information comes available publicly I will accept it if its factual. I believe most huge retailers would love to have those stats.

Anyone can make up numbers. In fact jimmothycoin has 500 million users world wide and zero complaints. Impressive right?

Fact is there is zero evidence to support the countless unbelievable claims GAW is making. There is however plenty of evidence to suggest they are all/mostly BS.

[Paul Revere]

What part of the XPY plan uses Federal Reserve Notes as the primary exchange medium and therefore supports the current utterly corrupt Banking System do you not understand?

Idiocracy in action folks.

GAW is trying to build value

All most all Crypto-currency has gained legitimacy from Fiat currencies.

How would you build value in a coin? Maybe like XGR or GLD. They always get mined and dumped for whatever reserve there is until they're devoid of value. GAW has a decent, not perfect system to attempt to retain the value through the mine and dumpers.

Make up your mind. Do you want to support the current system, or not? You do not get to have it both ways. Paycoin/Paybase is intertwined with the current system and is 100% reliant upon it. . Most other crypto currencies are not. Very simple.

[vabchgent]

I would like to know if GAW is going to ask for personal information how are they going to protect it. They Still have said nothing about that.

Jimmothy - Thanks for bringing up the MSB also. No one on HT has gave me a straight answer yet as to who they are doing business as.

[truth_]

http://www.coindesk.com/gaw-miners-altcoin-launch-sparks-speculative-frenzy/

[Paul Revere]

I would like to know if GAW is going to ask for personal information how are they going to protect it. They Still have said nothing about that.

Jimmothy - Thanks for bringing up the MSB also. No one on HT has gave me a straight answer yet as to who they are doing business as.

Why, after they have every bit of data necessary to steal your identity they will of course lock it up in one of these cute little buggers:



These are very secure and there is an infinite amount of storage room in them even though they will be stuffed with Staked Paycoins, because they are completely imaginary and are actually just CAD renderings. You can't break in to something that does not exist right? See, Josh has the security issue all figured out. Go ahead and send your SSN and scan of Driver's License, Bank Numbers, Mothers Maiden Name, etc etc. No worries!

Again: The difference between what Josh is doing and stealing candy from a baby is that a baby has the common sense to cry when you steal his lollypop.