GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[bitcoinnoisseur]

No, what I'm saying is why spend money on exchanges to buy coins?  They have enough debits to worry about with the HP->XPY->BTC/USD sell off from their own customers.  They need to have the money to support this sell-off from their customers.  And by doing so within paybase, they get the same effect from the exchanges that they want without having to buy coins from the exchanges.  They can't control the price on the exchange, but they can manipulate behavior a bit by only guaranteeing the $20 via paybase.

Translation: They have no intentions of paying $20 for Paycoins. If they did they would be buying them right now for $5.

Example: I am a builder. Let's say I need 100 sheets of plywood for a job next week that I a obligated to do. Today the sheets of plywood are on sale for $5. The sale ends Sunday, and Monday I will have to pay $20 per sheet. Are you REALLY so stupid that you would pay $20 instead of $5?? Do you REALLY not know the difference between $500 and $2,000?? Another product victim of our educational system. Shocking.

They don't have to *BUY* any coins.  They already have them!

Why would would you as a builder go buy cheap plywood when you already have enough for the job?  Sure, it's cheap plywood, but all the money you have to buy the cheap plywood is spoken for... to pay the construction guy's salaries for a while.  What are you going to tell your contruction guys... sorry, I spent all your salaries on more cheap plywood?

The "logic" you are applying here is so ass backwards I do not even know where to start to try to explain it to you. If you do not understand that buying something you must have for $5 instead of $20 is a better business practice I am afraid I will simply never be able to reach you. Kind of like trying to explain to my dog how to knit a sweater. Pretty much a wasted effort. Good luck!

Oh, and don't forget to rent more miners!!

If my logic is so "ass backwards"... then tell me... Why does GAW have to buy any XPY?  They already have the 12 million they need to distribute to prime controllers and haspoint conversion customers.  They don't have any more obligation to the price on any exchange other than their own.

If you don't understand that, then I guess we are done then.

You really are one dumb son of a bitch. Where the hell do you think all those 12 million coins are going? GAW doesn't own them. They just control them for right now. They go to every single investor in paycoin big or small and every single HP owner. GAW has to buy them back for $20(Unless Josh doesn't go back on that) from all of those investors. Everyone holding HP's right now are waiting for them to be converted to paycoins so they can sell them to GAW for $20.

People are buying up paycoins cheap(under $20) to send to Paybase to sell back to GAW for the $20 which Josh has promised. SO why isn't GAW buying them up off the exchanges so that they don't have to buy them back for $20 once Paybase goes live? The answer is because they aren't going to buy them all back for $20 unless Josh and everyone working for GAW completely lack basic math skills like you do. Please do not post again about this as you are a complete embarrassment.

[1715285602]

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[puwaha]

They don't have to *BUY* any coins.  They already have them!

Why would would you as a builder go buy cheap plywood when you already have enough for the job?  Sure, it's cheap plywood, but all the money you have to buy the cheap plywood is spoken for... to pay the construction guy's salaries for a while.  What are you going to tell your contruction guys... sorry, I spent all your salaries on more cheap plywood?

I would argue from an accounting POV that these discounted coins are a liability against the declared value at retail. If Joe Blow paid $20 for the coin and uses it at a $20 value, its a wash. But if Miner Bob redeems his coin for $20 and it only cost him $7, he sees an increase in value of $13. That $13 has to come from somewhere and it comes out of GAW's pockets.

GAW cannot control what buys/sells happen on the exchanges.  That would be price manipulation.  They can only control what happens on their exchange.

[Paul Revere]

No, what I'm saying is why spend money on exchanges to buy coins?  They have enough debits to worry about with the HP->XPY->BTC/USD sell off from their own customers.  They need to have the money to support this sell-off from their customers.  And by doing so within paybase, they get the same effect from the exchanges that they want without having to buy coins from the exchanges.  They can't control the price on the exchange, but they can manipulate behavior a bit by only guaranteeing the $20 via paybase.

Translation: They have no intentions of paying $20 for Paycoins. If they did they would be buying them right now for $5.

Example: I am a builder. Let's say I need 100 sheets of plywood for a job next week that I a obligated to do. Today the sheets of plywood are on sale for $5. The sale ends Sunday, and Monday I will have to pay $20 per sheet. Are you REALLY so stupid that you would pay $20 instead of $5?? Do you REALLY not know the difference between $500 and $2,000?? Another product victim of our educational system. Shocking.

They don't have to *BUY* any coins.  They already have them!

Why would would you as a builder go buy cheap plywood when you already have enough for the job?  Sure, it's cheap plywood, but all the money you have to buy the cheap plywood is spoken for... to pay the construction guy's salaries for a while.  What are you going to tell your contruction guys... sorry, I spent all your salaries on more cheap plywood?

The "logic" you are applying here is so ass backwards I do not even know where to start to try to explain it to you. If you do not understand that buying something you must have for $5 instead of $20 is a better business practice I am afraid I will simply never be able to reach you. Kind of like trying to explain to my dog how to knit a sweater. Pretty much a wasted effort. Good luck!

Oh, and don't forget to rent more miners!!

If my logic is so "ass backwards"... then tell me... Why does GAW have to buy any XPY?  They already have the 12 million they need to distribute to prime controllers and haspoint conversion customers.  They don't have any more obligation to the price on any exchange other than their own.

If you don't understand that, then I guess we are done then.

I will try to reach you once more using the most basic terminology that I can, although I know this is most likely a wasted effort.

Josh promises that XPY can be sold on Paybase Monday for $20. This means that every coin not currently held by GAW will be snapped up and taken there and sold for $20. This means that $20 for every XPC currently in the wild will be coming out of GAW's bank account. If they were to buy these POW coins right now, they can be bought for $5.  

The next part gets a little tricky, as it employs basic mathematics. Take a drink of water and try to stay with me here.

The estimate is that there will be 500,000 POW coins.

Today this 500,000 coins could be purchased @5 each. This equals $2,500,000

Monday, (if there is validity to the $20 buyback promise) these coins will be bought on the exchanges and sold on Paybase for $20 each. This equals $10,000,000.

Are you still with me here?? Take a breath, stretch and get ready for the next part, I promise it is the end of this complicated Math.

$10,000,000 is more than $2,500,000. This means that if you pay $10,000,000 instead of $2,500,000 you will have $7,500,000 LESS in your bank account Monday.

If you still do not understand that having $7,500,000 more in your bank account is better than tossing it in the toilet you will most likely never understand.

There. Was that so hard?

Make sure you rent as many miners as you can tonight to get "cheap" XPY so you can cash them in for $20 Monday morning!

[suchmoon]

If my logic is so "ass backwards"... then tell me... Why does GAW have to buy any XPY?  They already have the 12 million they need to distribute to prime controllers and haspoint conversion customers.  They don't have any more obligation to the price on any exchange other than their own.

If you don't understand that, then I guess we are done then.

Are you saying that GAW can refuse to buy any of the POW coins? Because that's the only way this could possibly make sense. If I transfer a POW coin to Paybase and try to sell it at the promised $20 price, will it work? Yes or no?

Yes - GAW is losing money, they should buy those coins now, and your logic is indeed flawed.
No - your logic is correct then, but GAW is screwing over all those loyal customers who believe in the "floor" and are buying up coins on the exchanges now.

[puwaha]

I have the wallet downloaded. I have mined coins.  Exactly how do I stake them without going through GAW?  I do not see that functionality in the wallet.  Please explain the process in simple terms, I would love to try it.

You just leave them in your wallet for 30 days and log into your wallet. The coins basically need to stay at a single address for period of time

Okay, so I leave them in my wallet at a single address.  What if I have 1,000 XPY and only want to stake 50 XPY?  Will you need to use coin control each time to ensure that the same wallet addresses are not spent?  Seems really complicated.  In reality then you need two wallets.. one for staked coins and one for spending coins.  Right?

Very user friendly.

That's just how POS wallets work. {/shrug}

Think of your staking wallet as a type of psuedo cold storage.  You just let it sit.  You don't even have to have the wallet app running to stake.

[Puppet]

What does the "staking" achieve, and what does it do for the 96% or whatever gaw premined if they are staked?

[bitpop]

You have to be insane to think Josh will give you free money

[puwaha]

No, what I'm saying is why spend money on exchanges to buy coins?  They have enough debits to worry about with the HP->XPY->BTC/USD sell off from their own customers.  They need to have the money to support this sell-off from their customers.  And by doing so within paybase, they get the same effect from the exchanges that they want without having to buy coins from the exchanges.  They can't control the price on the exchange, but they can manipulate behavior a bit by only guaranteeing the $20 via paybase.

Translation: They have no intentions of paying $20 for Paycoins. If they did they would be buying them right now for $5.

Example: I am a builder. Let's say I need 100 sheets of plywood for a job next week that I a obligated to do. Today the sheets of plywood are on sale for $5. The sale ends Sunday, and Monday I will have to pay $20 per sheet. Are you REALLY so stupid that you would pay $20 instead of $5?? Do you REALLY not know the difference between $500 and $2,000?? Another product victim of our educational system. Shocking.

They don't have to *BUY* any coins.  They already have them!

Why would would you as a builder go buy cheap plywood when you already have enough for the job?  Sure, it's cheap plywood, but all the money you have to buy the cheap plywood is spoken for... to pay the construction guy's salaries for a while.  What are you going to tell your contruction guys... sorry, I spent all your salaries on more cheap plywood?

The "logic" you are applying here is so ass backwards I do not even know where to start to try to explain it to you. If you do not understand that buying something you must have for $5 instead of $20 is a better business practice I am afraid I will simply never be able to reach you. Kind of like trying to explain to my dog how to knit a sweater. Pretty much a wasted effort. Good luck!

Oh, and don't forget to rent more miners!!

If my logic is so "ass backwards"... then tell me... Why does GAW have to buy any XPY?  They already have the 12 million they need to distribute to prime controllers and haspoint conversion customers.  They don't have any more obligation to the price on any exchange other than their own.

If you don't understand that, then I guess we are done then.

You really are one dumb son of a bitch. Where the hell do you think all those 12 million coins are going? GAW doesn't own them. They just control them for right now. They go to every single investor in paycoin big or small and every single HP owner. GAW has to buy them back for $20(Unless Josh doesn't go back on that) from all of those investors. Everyone holding HP's right now are waiting for them to be converted to paycoins so they can sell them to GAW for $20.

You somewhat got it.  Yes, GAW will value them at $20 in paybase, if you choose to cash them in.  But they have setup their ecosystem in paybase to deflect as much "buyback" as possible.  The vast majority of coins will be staked in prime controllers, another large portion will be staked in hashstakers, so the actual number of coins that GAW has to "buy" off of anyone will be pretty small comparatively speaking.

And I'll ask you not to insult me, please.

People are buying up paycoins cheap(under $20) to send to Paybase to sell back to GAW for the $20 which Josh has promised. SO why isn't GAW buying them up off the exchanges so that they don't have to buy them back for $20 once Paybase goes live? The answer is because they aren't going to buy them all back for $20 unless Josh and everyone working for GAW completely lack basic math skills like you do. Please do not post again about this as you are a complete embarrassment.

Do you want to talk about price manipulation and arbitrage?  Or are you just going to continue insulting people?

[bitpop]

What does the "staking" achieve, and what does it do for the 96% or whatever gaw premined if they are staked?

It's just hype so they can sell the real miners

[suchmoon]

What does the "staking" achieve, and what does it do for the 96% or whatever gaw premined if they are staked?

Staking is built-in inflation. Many coins do it as an incentive to hold coins instead of dumping, but since this creates new coins (hence inflation) then it doesn't really produce any added value.

GAW made a mockery of it by offering 0.75 - 1.00% DAILY staking rate for coins held in their "online" wallets. Staking rate in your own wallet is 5% PER YEAR. So obviously they want you to keep your coins with them very much.

[wdl1908]

GAW is Arabic for SCAM

We demand proof of data center all we get is photoshop fakes









I demand proof of delivery of Hashlet

I always wondered how does this look photoshopped? I have NO idea what i'm looking at please point out where you see that it is photoshopped? I just want to learn to spot this for myself.

[bitcoinnoisseur]

No, what I'm saying is why spend money on exchanges to buy coins?  They have enough debits to worry about with the HP->XPY->BTC/USD sell off from their own customers.  They need to have the money to support this sell-off from their customers.  And by doing so within paybase, they get the same effect from the exchanges that they want without having to buy coins from the exchanges.  They can't control the price on the exchange, but they can manipulate behavior a bit by only guaranteeing the $20 via paybase.

Translation: They have no intentions of paying $20 for Paycoins. If they did they would be buying them right now for $5.

Example: I am a builder. Let's say I need 100 sheets of plywood for a job next week that I a obligated to do. Today the sheets of plywood are on sale for $5. The sale ends Sunday, and Monday I will have to pay $20 per sheet. Are you REALLY so stupid that you would pay $20 instead of $5?? Do you REALLY not know the difference between $500 and $2,000?? Another product victim of our educational system. Shocking.

They don't have to *BUY* any coins.  They already have them!

Why would would you as a builder go buy cheap plywood when you already have enough for the job?  Sure, it's cheap plywood, but all the money you have to buy the cheap plywood is spoken for... to pay the construction guy's salaries for a while.  What are you going to tell your contruction guys... sorry, I spent all your salaries on more cheap plywood?

The "logic" you are applying here is so ass backwards I do not even know where to start to try to explain it to you. If you do not understand that buying something you must have for $5 instead of $20 is a better business practice I am afraid I will simply never be able to reach you. Kind of like trying to explain to my dog how to knit a sweater. Pretty much a wasted effort. Good luck!

Oh, and don't forget to rent more miners!!

If my logic is so "ass backwards"... then tell me... Why does GAW have to buy any XPY?  They already have the 12 million they need to distribute to prime controllers and haspoint conversion customers.  They don't have any more obligation to the price on any exchange other than their own.

If you don't understand that, then I guess we are done then.

You really are one dumb son of a bitch. Where the hell do you think all those 12 million coins are going? GAW doesn't own them. They just control them for right now. They go to every single investor in paycoin big or small and every single HP owner. GAW has to buy them back for $20(Unless Josh doesn't go back on that) from all of those investors. Everyone holding HP's right now are waiting for them to be converted to paycoins so they can sell them to GAW for $20.

You somewhat got it.  Yes, GAW will value them at $20 in paybase, if you choose to cash them in.  But they have setup their ecosystem in paybase to deflect as much "buyback" as possible.  The vast majority of coins will be staked in prime controllers, another large portion will be staked in hashstakers, so the actual number of coins that GAW has to "buy" off of anyone will be pretty small comparatively speaking.

And I'll ask you not to insult me, please.

People are buying up paycoins cheap(under $20) to send to Paybase to sell back to GAW for the $20 which Josh has promised. SO why isn't GAW buying them up off the exchanges so that they don't have to buy them back for $20 once Paybase goes live? The answer is because they aren't going to buy them all back for $20 unless Josh and everyone working for GAW completely lack basic math skills like you do. Please do not post again about this as you are a complete embarrassment.

Do you want to talk about price manipulation and arbitrage?  Or are you just going to continue insulting people?

You have insulted yourself far more than anyone ever could by simply continuing to open your mouth and spew utterly ridiculous comments and questions. It seems as though you are a glutton for punishment as you never shut up and say the same things over and over ad nauseam. Does someone actually have to slap you upside the head to get you to understand all of this or to at least attempt to get your presimian brain to wrap around such basic math?

[jfabritz]

I'm not missing the point.  You guys are missing the point that GAW doesn't have to buy any coins.  They already have the coins they need to fulfill the HP->XPY conversion.  Please acknowledge that you understand this before moving on.

Yes, you are correct. GAW *does not* need to buy any coins to fund their HP->XPY conversion. That was accounted for in the premine.

What do *you* think all the people who have been buying up coin at $4-$7 are going to do with it? Sit on it? Stake it?

[eightcylinders]

I have the wallet downloaded. I have mined coins.  Exactly how do I stake them without going through GAW?  I do not see that functionality in the wallet.  Please explain the process in simple terms, I would love to try it.

You just leave them in your wallet for 30 days and log into your wallet. The coins basically need to stay at a single address for period of time

Okay, so I leave them in my wallet at a single address.  What if I have 1,000 XPY and only want to stake 50 XPY?  Will you need to use coin control each time to ensure that the same wallet addresses are not spent?  Seems really complicated.  In reality then you need two wallets.. one for staked coins and one for spending coins.  Right?

Very user friendly.

That's just how POS wallets work. {/shrug}

Think of your staking wallet as a type of psuedo cold storage.  You just let it sit.  You don't even have to have the wallet app running to stake.

I am new to PoS systems .. never followed Peercoin much.  So feel free to send me to a link that explains this, but as a programmer I am interested in how this works generally and in Paycoin specifically.

Where does the 5% APY come from?  Presumably new coins?  What is the verification process for this?  Miners have to check each and every wallet address to calculate the time they sat unused, and then award new coins for unused wallet address balances?    Does this calculation happen each block?  That would seem to put an enormous strain on mining as the block chain grows and wallet addresses multiply (Big O time would be polynomial I am pretty sure, which would limit growth of the system very substantially). 

[bitcoinnoisseur]

GAW is Arabic for SCAM

We demand proof of data center all we get is photoshop fakes









I demand proof of delivery of Hashlet

I always wondered how does this look photoshopped? I have NO idea what i'm looking at please point out where you see that it is photoshopped? I just want to learn to spot this for myself.

http://fotoforensics.com/

[interstellar]

They don't have to *BUY* any coins.  They already have them!

Why would would you as a builder go buy cheap plywood when you already have enough for the job?  Sure, it's cheap plywood, but all the money you have to buy the cheap plywood is spoken for... to pay the construction guy's salaries for a while.  What are you going to tell your contruction guys... sorry, I spent all your salaries on more cheap plywood?

You're missing the point, people are buying it below $10 to dump it for $20 next week.  Keeping the $5 example, if GAW buys it today it costs $5, if they don't and someone else does they will have to buy the SAME coin for $20 next week.

I'm not missing the point.  You guys are missing the point that GAW doesn't have to buy any coins.  They already have the coins they need to fulfill the HP->XPY conversion.  Please acknowledge that you understand this before moving on.

Buy today: It costs GAW $5 and they can sell it next week for $20

They don't need to sell the coins.  They need all the coins they have now in order to fulfill the HP->XPY conversion (and stake the prime controllers).  If they sell off the cheap coins, they are needlessly wasting their floor money on coins they don't need.

They need the floor money to keep the value at $20 once paybase opens and people can start working with their XPY there.

Don't buy today: someone buys it for $5 and sell it to GAW next week for $20, it costs GAW $20

So people are wondering why they aren't buying right now if there is a $20 floor...

Arbitrage.

As soon as they complete the HP->XPY conversion, they are going to need a shitload of BTC to cover those who decide to cash out their XPY.

Then they are going to need another shitload of BTC to cover all the miners who held their coin to cash out their XPY.

Then they are going to need yet another shitload of BTC to cover all the speculators (ie, mostly their own cultists) who bought XPY on the exchanges in hopes of arbitrage.

That my friend is going to be a hell of a lot of BTC going out the door on monday so they better have a damn big BTC wallet ready to go.

[Puppet]

GAW made a mockery of it by offering 0.75 - 1.00% DAILY staking rate for coins held in their "online" wallets. Staking rate in your own wallet is 5% PER YEAR. So obviously they want you to keep your coins with them very much.

1% per day? LOL? Does that compound? And so there is no upper bound to the amount of paycoins in circulation?

[wdl1908]

No, what I'm saying is why spend money on exchanges to buy coins?  They have enough debits to worry about with the HP->XPY->BTC/USD sell off from their own customers.  They need to have the money to support this sell-off from their customers.  And by doing so within paybase, they get the same effect from the exchanges that they want without having to buy coins from the exchanges.  They can't control the price on the exchange, but they can manipulate behavior a bit by only guaranteeing the $20 via paybase.

Translation: They have no intentions of paying $20 for Paycoins. If they did they would be buying them right now for $5.

Example: I am a builder. Let's say I need 100 sheets of plywood for a job next week that I a obligated to do. Today the sheets of plywood are on sale for $5. The sale ends Sunday, and Monday I will have to pay $20 per sheet. Are you REALLY so stupid that you would pay $20 instead of $5?? Do you REALLY not know the difference between $500 and $2,000?? Another product victim of our educational system. Shocking.

They don't have to *BUY* any coins.  They already have them!

Why would would you as a builder go buy cheap plywood when you already have enough for the job?  Sure, it's cheap plywood, but all the money you have to buy the cheap plywood is spoken for... to pay the construction guy's salaries for a while.  What are you going to tell your contruction guys... sorry, I spent all your salaries on more cheap plywood?

The "logic" you are applying here is so ass backwards I do not even know where to start to try to explain it to you. If you do not understand that buying something you must have for $5 instead of $20 is a better business practice I am afraid I will simply never be able to reach you. Kind of like trying to explain to my dog how to knit a sweater. Pretty much a wasted effort. Good luck!

Oh, and don't forget to rent more miners!!

If my logic is so "ass backwards"... then tell me... Why does GAW have to buy any XPY?  They already have the 12 million they need to distribute to prime controllers and haspoint conversion customers.  They don't have any more obligation to the price on any exchange other than their own.

If you don't understand that, then I guess we are done then.

I will try to reach you once more using the most basic terminology that I can, although I know this is most likely a wasted effort.

Josh promises that XPY can be sold on Paybase Monday for $20. This means that every coin not currently held by GAW will be snapped up and taken there and sold for $20. This means that $20 for every XPC currently in the wild will be coming out of GAW's bank account. If they were to buy these POW coins right now, they can be bought for $5.  

The next part gets a little tricky, as it employs basic mathematics. Take a drink of water and try to stay with me here.

The estimate is that there will be 500,000 POW coins.

Today this 500,000 coins could be purchased @5 each. This equals $2,500,000

Monday, (if there is validity to the $20 buyback promise) these coins will be bought on the exchanges and sold on Paybase for $20 each. This equals $10,000,000.

Are you still with me here?? Take a breath, stretch and get ready for the next part, I promise it is the end of this complicated Math.

$10,000,000 is more than $2,500,000. This means that if you pay $10,000,000 instead of $2,500,000 you will have $7,500,000 LESS in your bank account Monday.

If you still do not understand that having $7,500,000 more in your bank account is better than tossing it in the toilet you will most likely never understand.

There. Was that so hard?

Make sure you rent as many miners as you can tonight to get "cheap" XPY so you can cash them in for $20 Monday morning!

I got your point the first time you explained it. I know how it works. Now let's assume GAW goes on the other exchanges and imposes a floor of $20 what will all of you say then? Then you got another point to attack GAW with MARKET MANIPULATION. I'm I correct? Oh yes I'm correct. So GAW does not do this because you people will have another reason to bash them.

[Paul Revere]

I got your point the first time you explained it. I know how it works. Now let's assume GAW goes on the other exchanges and imposes a floor of $20 what will all of you say then? Then you got another point to attack GAW with MARKET MANIPULATION. I'm I correct? Oh yes I'm correct. So GAW does not do this because you people will have another reason to bash them.

[wdl1908]

GAW is Arabic for SCAM

We demand proof of data center all we get is photoshop fakes









I demand proof of delivery of Hashlet

I always wondered how does this look photoshopped? I have NO idea what i'm looking at please point out where you see that it is photoshopped? I just want to learn to spot this for myself.

http://fotoforensics.com/

I have no intention of reading all this. Please point to me exactly why this is photoshopped.