What is your trading strategy?

[deisik]

again pointless argument, trading in general is not arbitrage only, it's about trading you do on exchange and the gain come from your skill not from already established profit opportunity, arbitrage is another thing even if it is a form of trading we are not talking exclusively about it

As I said, you are clueless about trading. Most likely, you are clueless about poker too, but that I don't know for sure, lol. It seems that it's beyond your cognitive abilities to grasp that arbitrageurs are selling losses to the whole shebang, that they heavily distort the chances of those whose gains "come from your skill", you moron. Their profits are necessarily someone else's losses. It is not another thing, it is specifically the thing that makes trading a losing game for the total majority of traders in the long run...

You can't win against the house, and those who gain profits from "established profit opportunity" are the house. Anyone who begs to differ is either as clueless or a hypocrite

you are basing you "you are clueless about x thing" on nothing, but just on the fact that i presented to you the difference between poker and trading, but wait you don't know anything about poker

so how you can know that i'm clueless about trading, if you can't say that it's not akin to poker, which was my whole argument?

it's not about "i didn't talk about the difference, like you said" it's about the fact that you need to know the difference if you want to say that i'm clueless

seeing how your only criteria for knowing that i don't know shit about trading, is comparing it to poker, which again was my initial point

but as usual you are not understanding what i'm saying

You started with saying

trading is not much different than poker, someone must be +ev and the other are all -ev

As I said, I don't know whether your words are true about poker (they may well be, if that makes you happy, lol), but you made a statement which attributed (assigned) these properties to trading. It is equivalent to just saying that in trading "someone must be +ev and the other are all -ev" (cheaters are). Now tell me whether I should know anything about poker to challenge your statement about trading?

You seem to really lack something in your cognitive and inference-making abilities

[proudgambler02]

i'm just using my strategy the short trade fast one cause it can get profit fast and can double your bitcoin in just an hour and that's the reason i earn almost 10 times of my starting btc on trading now and still profiting

[deisik]

so how you can know that i'm clueless about trading, if you can't say that it's not akin to poker, which was my whole argument?

it's not about "i didn't talk about the difference, like you said" it's about the fact that you need to know the difference if you want to say that i'm clueless

Well, I looked into what you might mean by +ev/-ev in respect to poker, and can only further confirm that you are clueless about trading. The expected value (ev) can be in player’s favor in games involving not only luck but also skill. One of such occurrences is poker where an experienced player can and should win in the long run (taken from here). This is absolutely not the case with trading. A skilled trader (unless he himself is cheating) in the long run can only minimize his losses by increasing the losses of the less skilled traders (-ev for all non-cheaters in a zero-sum game, and entropy for the rest of the world). He can't take profits from those who arbitrage the system. To avoid losses, he can only stay away from trading altogether or find ways to fuck (arbitrage) the system himself...

If you knew in advance what the price would be, there could possibly be no way that someone willing to trade with you would escape losses, no matter how advanced his trading skills might be

[JollyTrades]

so how you can know that i'm clueless about trading, if you can't say that it's not akin to poker, which was my whole argument?

it's not about "i didn't talk about the difference, like you said" it's about the fact that you need to know the difference if you want to say that i'm clueless

Well, I looked into what you might mean by +ev/-ev in respect to poker, and can only further confirm that you are clueless about trading. The expected value (ev) can be in player’s favor in games involving not only luck but also skill. One of such occurrences is poker where an experienced player can and should win in the long run (taken from here). This is absolutely not the case with trading. A skilled trader (unless he is cheating himself) in the long run can only minimize his losses by increasing the losses of less skilled traders (-ev for all non-cheaters). He can't take profits from those who arbitrage the system. To avoid losses, he can only stay away from trading altogether...

If you knew in advance what the price would be, there would be no way that someone willing to trade with you could escape losses however advanced his trading skills might be

@deisik,

As far as what I understand from your sayings, you think the investment arena is based on pure luck. Am I correct?

Best,

Jian

[iqlimasyadiqa]

I bought some altcoin at a very cheap price ranges. then I wait and sell at a high price. My strategy is to resist patience. I waited a very appropriate time to achieve a large profit.

[deisik]

so how you can know that i'm clueless about trading, if you can't say that it's not akin to poker, which was my whole argument?

it's not about "i didn't talk about the difference, like you said" it's about the fact that you need to know the difference if you want to say that i'm clueless

Well, I looked into what you might mean by +ev/-ev in respect to poker, and can only further confirm that you are clueless about trading. The expected value (ev) can be in player’s favor in games involving not only luck but also skill. One of such occurrences is poker where an experienced player can and should win in the long run (taken from here). This is absolutely not the case with trading. A skilled trader (unless he is cheating himself) in the long run can only minimize his losses by increasing the losses of less skilled traders (-ev for all non-cheaters). He can't take profits from those who arbitrage the system. To avoid losses, he can only stay away from trading altogether...

If you knew in advance what the price would be, there would be no way that someone willing to trade with you could escape losses however advanced his trading skills might be

@deisik,

As far as what I understand from your sayings, you think the investment arena is based on pure luck. Am I correct?

Best,

Jian

In general, trading is not investing. You may justly ask what's the difference, so I reply. In a zero-sum game (which Bitcoin is quite close to), there is hardly any. Your investments can be considered as a sort of prolonged trading (with the same outcome). In this case, because of the presence of those who gain profits based on "established profit opportunity", luck would play against you in the long run (just like in a Bitcoin casino, or just casino, lol). In the real world, this also holds true with respect to derivatives markets (e.g. options and futures). That's why insider trading is so severely punished by the controlling bodies (see The Billions movie series). This is not the case with bonds and stocks, and even less so with dividend paying stocks, since you are still expected to earn something in the former case (bonds) and can eventually earn through dividends in the latter (stocks). As a shortcut, you can safely assume that the farther the market is from real economy, the more speculative and thus more prone to all sorts of manipulation, cheating, and arbitrage it will be...

So, at one end of the investment spectrum we have bonds where you are guaranteed to get back the principal and interest earned in due course (no luck involved), and all sorts of HYIPs and Ponzi schemes at the other (pure luck, or just lack thereof, lol)

[john2231]

I bought some altcoin at a very cheap price ranges. then I wait and sell at a high price. My strategy is to resist patience. I waited a very appropriate time to achieve a large profit.

Yeah it needs patience and trading is not instant that you can make a profit one you buy and sell sooner.. it takes days before you can make  a real profit.. but sometimes i tried also to sacrifice buy new releases unknown altcoin then sell it sooner.. i made a profit in that way but sometimes lost and its high risk..

[JollyTrades]

In general, trading is not investing. You may justly ask what's the difference, so I reply. In a zero-sum game (which Bitcoin is quite close to), there is hardly any. Your investments can be considered as a sort of prolonged trading (with the same outcome). In this case, because of the presence of those who gain profits based on "established profit opportunity", luck would play against you in the long run (just like in a Bitcoin casino). In the real world, this also holds true with respect to derivatives markets (e.g. options and futures). That's why insider trading is so severely punished by the controlling bodies (see The Billions movie series). This is not the case with bonds and stocks, and even less so with dividend paying stocks, since you are still expected to earn something in the former case (bonds) and can eventually earn through dividends in the latter (stocks). As a shortcut, you can safely assume that the farther the market is from real economy, the more speculative and thus more prone to all sorts of manipulation, cheating, and arbitrage it will be...

So, at one end of the investment spectrum we have bonds where you are guaranteed to get back the principal and interest earned in due course (no luck involved), and all sorts of HYIPs and Ponzi schemes at the other (pure luck, or lack thereof, lol)

@deisik,

I see, yeah, however much bitcoin could be seen as a commodity, the separation between it and the real economy makes the market close to a zero-sum game - although I wouldn't call it zero-sum outright. This is even more so with altcoins.

On the other hand, the hype might be measured maybe, and the odds of winning such purely speculative games could be increased. In the end, the crowd is not well informed as the efficient market hypothesis assumes. So maybe those who are experienced in these waters could read between the lines and be de facto insiders.

I have to add that I haven't done an extensive research on the altcoin markets. As far as I can see, with enough hype and greed seen in the forum, all cryptos undergo a pumping period, which also signals its end beforehand. So maybe a properly diversified portfolio might bring a positive expected return. But as I said, my expertise is mainly focused on the stock market, and I'm not sure if this works out with crypto.

Best,

Jian

[deisik]

I see, yeah, however much bitcoin could be seen as a commodity, the separation between it and the real economy makes the market close to a zero-sum game - although I wouldn't call it zero-sum outright

I didn't call it a zero-sum game either. I said it is close to. How close can be estimated by the percent of real economy behind Bitcoin (i.e. by the volume of goods bought and services rendered for it versus the volume traded at exchanges)...

Since this percent is minuscule, if not infinitesimal, or just laughable, we can safely assume that Bitcoin is quite close to a zero-sum game

[bitdumper]

Two strategies
Buy low sell high
If all your analysis says to sell you should buy and vice versa.

[JollyTrades]

I see, yeah, however much bitcoin could be seen as a commodity, the separation between it and the real economy makes the market close to a zero-sum game - although I wouldn't call it zero-sum outright

I didn't call it a zero-sum game either. I said it is close to. How close can be estimated by the percent of real economy behind Bitcoin (i.e. by the volume of goods bought and services rendered for it versus the volume traded at exchanges)...

Since this percent is minuscule, if not infinitesimal, or just laughable, we can safely assume that Bitcoin is quite close to a zero-sum game

Haha yeah, in every market the speculator comprise the most portion but for crypto the speculator's share is much more than stocks or other commodities.

So one may ask if it's possible to come up with a Ponzi investment strategy, huh? Get in when there is an apparent hype, and get out quickly, or get out when there is too much hype; try as many different Ponzis as possible, both simultaneously and in succession. I don't know if it's possible to make some bucks out of that.

[deisik]

So one may ask if it's possible to come up with a Ponzi investment strategy, huh? Get in when there is an apparent hype, and get out quickly, or get out when there is too much hype; try as many different Ponzis as possible, both simultaneously and in succession. I don't know if it's possible to make some bucks out of that.

Some Ponzis even allow to earn a little for anyone who is not too greedy and can stay so through the course. The well known example is Cointellect. They sold contracts but at the same time allowed everyone to "mine" a few euros a day in dogecoins for free (rumors had it those were stolen doges). Though I wouldn't try out a Ponzi investment strategy myself, even if it would leave me in green (and with green) in the end (in hand)...

It is simply not worth the effort (health-wise)

[dotajhay]

my strategy is to buy cheap bitcoins and wait it to become high price and sell it then wait to be low price then buy cheap bitcoins again and again, easy strategy  always hold your bitcoins and wait it to become high price then sell. trading is so easy to learn from newbies.

[Bitcoinbee]

my strategy is to buy cheap bitcoins and wait it to become high price and sell it then wait to be low price then buy cheap bitcoins again and again, easy strategy  always hold your bitcoins and wait it to become high price then sell. trading is so easy to learn from newbies.

One of my strategy in trading is utilizing every single bitcoin or resources to have my capital grow rather than wait for it to grow.  There is a difference in the two trading procedures. especially profits.

[miningdude]

I buy bitcoins at low rate like one btc for 320$ then I hold it until it up to high rate after I resell it for good profit.

[martinacar]

I do not have a real strategy to be honest the only thing I do is look at the prices and the upcoming events plus what is going on in the news.
Mostly if there is some good news I can trade for good prices due to the fact the price rises.

[ravens]

The answer almost everyone is going to tell you is buy low, sell high. This is probably the most recommended option to gain profit in both long-term and short-term. The only problem is this is that we won't know that the future price will be.

[john2231]

The answer almost everyone is going to tell you is buy low, sell high. This is probably the most recommended option to gain profit in both long-term and short-term. The only problem is this is that we won't know that the future price will be.

Yeah thats a common strategy in trading but how about if bought altcoin instead of increase it will decreased and how to recover your loses instead..
Also i tried to set for buy altcoin in sell wall not in buy.. depends in the margin.. so that you can set below in buy wall..

[Amph]

so how you can know that i'm clueless about trading, if you can't say that it's not akin to poker, which was my whole argument?

it's not about "i didn't talk about the difference, like you said" it's about the fact that you need to know the difference if you want to say that i'm clueless

Well, I looked into what you might mean by +ev/-ev in respect to poker, and can only further confirm that you are clueless about trading. The expected value (ev) can be in player’s favor in games involving not only luck but also skill. One of such occurrences is poker where an experienced player can and should win in the long run (taken from here). This is absolutely not the case with trading. A skilled trader (unless he himself is cheating) in the long run can only minimize his losses by increasing the losses of the less skilled traders (-ev for all non-cheaters in a zero-sum game, and entropy for the rest of the world). He can't take profits from those who arbitrage the system. To avoid losses, he can only stay away from trading altogether or find ways to fuck (arbitrage) the system himself...

If you knew in advance what the price would be, there could possibly be no way that someone willing to trade with you would escape losses, no matter how advanced his trading skills might be

trading also do not involve only luck, but skill if you know how to do your strategy, both game are about being in a good position

even big poker player consider them akin, and you that don't know nothign about poker, pretend that they are different, or not equal or whatever you want

so no, the only clueless person here it's you....

btw minimizing his loss still mean +ev in the long term, otherwise if he was perennially -ev, it would not make sense to trade to begin with....

[ebookscreator]

so how you can know that i'm clueless about trading, if you can't say that it's not akin to poker, which was my whole argument?

it's not about "i didn't talk about the difference, like you said" it's about the fact that you need to know the difference if you want to say that i'm clueless

Well, I looked into what you might mean by +ev/-ev in respect to poker, and can only further confirm that you are clueless about trading. The expected value (ev) can be in player’s favor in games involving not only luck but also skill. One of such occurrences is poker where an experienced player can and should win in the long run (taken from here). This is absolutely not the case with trading. A skilled trader (unless he himself is cheating) in the long run can only minimize his losses by increasing the losses of the less skilled traders (-ev for all non-cheaters in a zero-sum game, and entropy for the rest of the world). He can't take profits from those who arbitrage the system. To avoid losses, he can only stay away from trading altogether or find ways to fuck (arbitrage) the system himself...

If you knew in advance what the price would be, there could possibly be no way that someone willing to trade with you would escape losses, no matter how advanced his trading skills might be

trading also do not involve only luck, but skill if you know how to do your strategy, both game are about being in a good position

even big poker player consider them akin, and you that don't know nothign about poker, pretend that they are different, or not equal or whatever you want

so no, the only clueless person here it's you....

btw minimizing his loss still mean +ev in the long term, otherwise if he was perennially -ev, it would not make sense to trade to begin with....

Yeah i think its not in luck base and it needs a skills and strategy.. someone teaching me how to trade and now i learn if i am nearly to lose in one altcoin it needs a strategy to control the increases and to lowering the risk.. I learn a lot here in our forum not only also in trading chat room..