The difficulty HAS BEEN REDUCED!!!!

[TKeenan]

Holy shit - I didn't think we'd see that, the difficulty has been REDUCED!!!  Mining fun is returning!

[1715438944]

1715438944

[1715438944]

1715438944

[1715438944]

1715438944

[1715438944]

1715438944

[1715438944]

1715438944

[luffy]

not much of a difference!

[OverHash]

Holy shit - I didn't think we'd see that, the difficulty has been REDUCED!!!  Mining fun is returning!

Hasn't changed just yet? Even so it won't be that much of a change we wouldn't think.

[ChuckBuck]

Not by much.  From Bitcoinwisdom:

Bitcoin Difficulty:   40,300,030,328
Estimated Next Difficulty:   40,010,998,361 (-0.72%)
Adjust time:   After 3 Blocks, About 29.5 minutes
Hashrate(?):   292,484,067 GH/s
Block Generation Time(?):   
1 block: 9.8 minutes
3 blocks: 29.5 minutes
6 blocks: 59.0 minutes

   

Basically nil difference, you'll just get the same rewards this difficulty as the last.  Hooray?

[caga]

Holy shit - I didn't think we'd see that, the difficulty has been REDUCED!!!  Mining fun is returning!

Almost no difference like others pointed out.

Might be just a short term reduction in diffculty.

[DarkRavenGamer]

Last time was almost 2 years ago!

http://gyazo.com/d1abd5eed1dbae6a415ababed070b63b

[Polivka GmbH]

Hooray?

Hooray.

[alani123]

It might be a tiny reduction, but I think that the start of a new era is now becoming more obvius. We kept seing mining becoming more centralised, mining at home kept becoming harder while the difficulty was constanly rising and the price was around 350. I believe that this reduction was caused by home miner being pulled off the wall because of not being profitable anymore.

[caga]

It might be a tiny reduction, but I think that the start of a new era is now becoming more obvius. We kept seing mining becoming more centralised, mining at home kept becoming harder while the difficulty was constanly rising and the price was around 350. I believe that this reduction was caused by home miner being pulled off the wall because of not being profitable anymore.

This is probably the only reason, and a rise in price, might cause a lot of those miners to reduce.
Mining is least profitable in these days.

[TKeenan]

Basically nil difference, you'll just get the same rewards this difficulty as the last.  Hooray?

-.7 % is awesome compared to +10% we've been seeing almost every week for months.  I am happy to make as much as last two weeks - especially if that goes on forever.  I am just glad the biweekly reduction of my system has been avoided this cycle!  Fucking Hooray!!!

[guitarplinker]

Wow, that's awesome! This must be the first time in years the difficulty has gone done. 

[DevilCrypto]

Woohoooo a reduction!

[bitcool]

It might be a tiny reduction, but I think that the start of a new era is now becoming more obvius. We kept seing mining becoming more centralised, mining at home kept becoming harder while the difficulty was constanly rising and the price was around 350. I believe that this reduction was caused by home miner being pulled off the wall because of not being profitable anymore.

I doubt it, for the most of the world, the weather is getting colder, pulling the plug on a free space heater doesn't seem to be a wise decision.

[numismatist]

Not by much.  From Bitcoinwisdom:

Bitcoin Difficulty:   40,300,030,328
Estimated Next Difficulty:   40,010,998,361 (-0.72%)

More like moving sideways, maintaining this level. But you allready know that big farms are reducing hashrate before each next step.
Maybe this time they have just overdone that. Watch next days to see networks real peak capacity.

No, we are not past "Peak Hashrate"

[Snipe85]

Miners seem to be unhappy with the price of bitcoin these days.

[davejh]

It might be a tiny reduction, but I think that the start of a new era is now becoming more obvius. We kept seing mining becoming more centralised, mining at home kept becoming harder while the difficulty was constanly rising and the price was around 350. I believe that this reduction was caused by home miner being pulled off the wall because of not being profitable anymore.

It's possible that there was a genuine reduction in capacity, but with this small a difficulty change it's also pretty likely that it's just a result of statistical variances and we have no real way of knowing whether the network is expanding or contracting. In a network where there's no actual change in capacity, variances of +/-5% are pretty likely: http://hashingit.com/analysis/28-reach-for-the-ear-defenders

[alani123]

It might be a tiny reduction, but I think that the start of a new era is now becoming more obvius. We kept seing mining becoming more centralised, mining at home kept becoming harder while the difficulty was constanly rising and the price was around 350. I believe that this reduction was caused by home miner being pulled off the wall because of not being profitable anymore.

It's possible that there was a genuine reduction in capacity, but with this small a difficulty change it's also pretty likely that it's just a result of statistical variances and we have no real way of knowing whether the network is expanding or contracting. In a network where there's no actual change in capacity, variances of +/-5% are pretty likely: http://hashingit.com/analysis/28-reach-for-the-ear-defenders

Indeed it is, but mining used to be an arms race. The total network hashrate was constantly increasing for more than a year until this point.

[CCW]

It might be a tiny reduction, but I think that the start of a new era is now becoming more obvius. We kept seing mining becoming more centralised, mining at home kept becoming harder while the difficulty was constanly rising and the price was around 350. I believe that this reduction was caused by home miner being pulled off the wall because of not being profitable anymore.

It's possible that there was a genuine reduction in capacity, but with this small a difficulty change it's also pretty likely that it's just a result of statistical variances and we have no real way of knowing whether the network is expanding or contracting. In a network where there's no actual change in capacity, variances of +/-5% are pretty likely: http://hashingit.com/analysis/28-reach-for-the-ear-defenders

Indeed it is, but mining used to be an arms race. The total network hashrate was constantly increasing for more than a year until this point.

I think it will go back around christmas time. then most of us forget that it decreased. its not much compare to the increasing within the last two months

[RD965]

It might be a tiny reduction, but I think that the start of a new era is now becoming more obvius. We kept seing mining becoming more centralised, mining at home kept becoming harder while the difficulty was constanly rising and the price was around 350. I believe that this reduction was caused by home miner being pulled off the wall because of not being profitable anymore.

It's possible that there was a genuine reduction in capacity, but with this small a difficulty change it's also pretty likely that it's just a result of statistical variances and we have no real way of knowing whether the network is expanding or contracting. In a network where there's no actual change in capacity, variances of +/-5% are pretty likely: http://hashingit.com/analysis/28-reach-for-the-ear-defenders

Indeed it is, but mining used to be an arms race. The total network hashrate was constantly increasing for more than a year until this point.

I think it will go back around christmas time. then most of us forget that it decreased. its not much compare to the increasing within the last two months

Its already christmas time! lets see, even for LTC the diff has gone down, always good news 

[TracerX]

Basically nil difference, you'll just get the same rewards this difficulty as the last.  Hooray?

-.7 % is awesome compared to +10% we've been seeing almost every week for months.  I am happy to make as much as last two weeks - especially if that goes on forever.  I am just glad the biweekly reduction of my system has been avoided this cycle!  Fucking Hooray!!!

This.

It just bought me an additional two weeks that I didn't initially calculate in my maths.  I recognize that it's not likely permanent, but I appreciate the slight respite either way.

[davejh]

It might be a tiny reduction, but I think that the start of a new era is now becoming more obvius. We kept seing mining becoming more centralised, mining at home kept becoming harder while the difficulty was constanly rising and the price was around 350. I believe that this reduction was caused by home miner being pulled off the wall because of not being profitable anymore.

It's possible that there was a genuine reduction in capacity, but with this small a difficulty change it's also pretty likely that it's just a result of statistical variances and we have no real way of knowing whether the network is expanding or contracting. In a network where there's no actual change in capacity, variances of +/-5% are pretty likely: http://hashingit.com/analysis/28-reach-for-the-ear-defenders

Indeed it is, but mining used to be an arms race. The total network hashrate was constantly increasing for more than a year until this point.

It's still an arms race, but the slowdown in hash rate expansion was predictable (I did predict it :-)) once everyone was running close to state-of-the-art hardware with low supplier margins and energy costs had been reduced as far as possible. Things can still move with a technology shift (such as when 16nm ASICs or more power efficient 28nm/20nm devices come online) or if the BTC price increases though. The hash rate will ultimately absorb every optimisation possible!

[RD965]

It might be a tiny reduction, but I think that the start of a new era is now becoming more obvius. We kept seing mining becoming more centralised, mining at home kept becoming harder while the difficulty was constanly rising and the price was around 350. I believe that this reduction was caused by home miner being pulled off the wall because of not being profitable anymore.

It's possible that there was a genuine reduction in capacity, but with this small a difficulty change it's also pretty likely that it's just a result of statistical variances and we have no real way of knowing whether the network is expanding or contracting. In a network where there's no actual change in capacity, variances of +/-5% are pretty likely: http://hashingit.com/analysis/28-reach-for-the-ear-defenders

Indeed it is, but mining used to be an arms race. The total network hashrate was constantly increasing for more than a year until this point.

It's still an arms race, but the slowdown in hash rate expansion was predictable (I did predict it :-)) once everyone was running close to state-of-the-art hardware with low supplier margins and energy costs had been reduced as far as possible. Things can still move with a technology shift (such as when 16nm ASICs or more power efficient 28nm/20nm devices come online) or if the BTC price increases though. The hash rate will ultimately absorb every optimisation possible!

Respect to the price, everybody is calling the bottom both for BTC and LTC, so mine, hold and wait for the train to leave the station 

[johny08]

It might be a tiny reduction, but I think that the start of a new era is now becoming more obvius. We kept seing mining becoming more centralised, mining at home kept becoming harder while the difficulty was constanly rising and the price was around 350. I believe that this reduction was caused by home miner being pulled off the wall because of not being profitable anymore.

It's possible that there was a genuine reduction in capacity, but with this small a difficulty change it's also pretty likely that it's just a result of statistical variances and we have no real way of knowing whether the network is expanding or contracting. In a network where there's no actual change in capacity, variances of +/-5% are pretty likely: http://hashingit.com/analysis/28-reach-for-the-ear-defenders

Indeed it is, but mining used to be an arms race. The total network hashrate was constantly increasing for more than a year until this point.

It's still an arms race, but the slowdown in hash rate expansion was predictable (I did predict it :-)) once everyone was running close to state-of-the-art hardware with low supplier margins and energy costs had been reduced as far as possible. Things can still move with a technology shift (such as when 16nm ASICs or more power efficient 28nm/20nm devices come online) or if the BTC price increases though. The hash rate will ultimately absorb every optimisation possible!

Respect to the price, everybody is calling the bottom both for BTC and LTC, so mine, hold and wait for the train to leave the station 

Haha. No. Mining will ne cheaper by factor 5x so the bitcoinprice will fell, before the hashrate unfold 5x. I would not either hold until 2017 halving. Not 100%. Maybe speculate with 5%

[RD965]

It might be a tiny reduction, but I think that the start of a new era is now becoming more obvius. We kept seing mining becoming more centralised, mining at home kept becoming harder while the difficulty was constanly rising and the price was around 350. I believe that this reduction was caused by home miner being pulled off the wall because of not being profitable anymore.

It's possible that there was a genuine reduction in capacity, but with this small a difficulty change it's also pretty likely that it's just a result of statistical variances and we have no real way of knowing whether the network is expanding or contracting. In a network where there's no actual change in capacity, variances of +/-5% are pretty likely: http://hashingit.com/analysis/28-reach-for-the-ear-defenders

Indeed it is, but mining used to be an arms race. The total network hashrate was constantly increasing for more than a year until this point.

It's still an arms race, but the slowdown in hash rate expansion was predictable (I did predict it :-)) once everyone was running close to state-of-the-art hardware with low supplier margins and energy costs had been reduced as far as possible. Things can still move with a technology shift (such as when 16nm ASICs or more power efficient 28nm/20nm devices come online) or if the BTC price increases though. The hash rate will ultimately absorb every optimisation possible!

Respect to the price, everybody is calling the bottom both for BTC and LTC, so mine, hold and wait for the train to leave the station 

Haha. No. Mining will ne cheaper by factor 5x so the bitcoinprice will fell, before the hashrate unfold 5x. I would not either hold until 2017 halving. Not 100%. Maybe speculate with 5%

Theres still just 21m coins dude noone is talking short term here

[SMB-2525]

It's still an arms race, but the slowdown in hash rate expansion was predictable (I did predict it :-)) once everyone was running close to state-of-the-art hardware with low supplier margins and energy costs had been reduced as far as possible. Things can still move with a technology shift (such as when 16nm ASICs or more power efficient 28nm/20nm devices come online) or if the BTC price increases though. The hash rate will ultimately absorb every optimisation possible!

The issue with the arms race metaphor is this is a profit and loss business.

Everybody experiences equipment dropout over time due to breakage. There is a difficulty level at which it is no longer economic to replace the equipment that wears out. Especially after the next halving. After the halving, I would expect a slow decrease in difficulty to a new normal.

There is now huge uncertainty in future difficulty increases.

The big players are facing huge uncertainty in their investment decisions.

I suspect what will happen is, if difficulty stays flat for a few increases, there will be another round of investment putting us back on the upward trajectory. If it even starts increasing at 5%, the investment decisions get much harder at this BTC price.

[btckold24]

almost everyone I know has taken their s1-s3s offline in california as the electricity is to much especially when btc price is at less than 400$  - If it went down about 20% I think some people may turn it back on but this was just a small one.

[Kprawn]

Well I see no difference, but as I always say... A reduction is better than a increase. 

It just shows me, everything is working like clockwork!

[Furio]

Well I see no difference, but as I always say... A reduction is better than a increase. 

It just shows me, everything is working like clockwork!

What I don't understand, the people selling their HW, is someone taking them to the shredder? Because you have alot of countries wheere power is next to free, so the old mining HW can still be efficient in other places, so why isn't anyone exploiting this?

[mudiko]

i think it will not go down a lot and start rising fast

[sherbyspark]

Well I see no difference, but as I always say... A reduction is better than a increase. 

It just shows me, everything is working like clockwork!

What I don't understand, the people selling their HW, is someone taking them to the shredder? Because you have alot of countries wheere power is next to free, so the old mining HW can still be efficient in other places, so why isn't anyone exploiting this?

People staying in the states, might find it not worth to ship or go start their mining operation in countries, where mining is profitable, due to very low power prices.

[RD965]

i think it will not go down a lot and start rising fast

You really are a clever being 

[gkv9]

Does negative difficulty indicate that there is a slight reduction in the amount of total miners?

[RD965]

Does negative difficulty indicate that there is a slight reduction in the amount of total miners?

"Slight" not exactly, a farm shut or so, but yes youre on the right track 

[gkv9]

Does negative difficulty indicate that there is a slight reduction in the amount of total miners?

"Slight" not exactly, a farm shut or so, but yes youre on the right track 

Was awaiting from minutes for this answer, thanks for the same though...

[davejh]

Does negative difficulty indicate that there is a slight reduction in the amount of total miners?

It's not quite that simple - it might mean that, but it's equally possible that the previous estimates of the global hash rate were too high and the new ones are more realistic. Hash rate measurements aren't precise - they're inferred and there's enough noise in the results to make it very unclear about what's really happening:

http://hashingit.com/analysis/27-hash-rate-headaches
http://hashingit.com/analysis/28-reach-for-the-ear-defenders
http://hashingit.com/analysis/30-finding-2016-blocks

Even if hash rates are falling it's more likely to be that older equipment that fails isn't being replaced rather than large scale infrastructure being shut down.

[TracerX]

Does negative difficulty indicate that there is a slight reduction in the amount of total miners?

It's not quite that simple - it might mean that, but it's equally possible that the previous estimates of the global hash rate were too high and the new ones are more realistic. Hash rate measurements aren't precise - they're inferred and there's enough noise in the results to make it very unclear about what's really happening:

http://hashingit.com/analysis/27-hash-rate-headaches
http://hashingit.com/analysis/28-reach-for-the-ear-defenders
http://hashingit.com/analysis/30-finding-2016-blocks

Even if hash rates are falling it's more likely to be that older equipment that fails isn't being replaced rather than large scale infrastructure being shut down.

I bookmarked your site, Dave--I appreciate your insights.

[abyrnes81]

Interesting thing , but  I don't think this is the first time that the diff. has been reduced ? Or am I wrong ?

[TracerX]

Interesting thing , but  I don't think this is the first time that the diff. has been reduced ? Or am I wrong ?

You are correct, but it's the first time we've seen a decrease in almost two years.

[FlyForFun]

Hopefully the difficulty will last few more months. I am sick of seeing the difficulty halt for 2 weeks and jump even more then the last month added up.

[TracerX]

Hopefully the difficulty will last few more months. I am sick of seeing the difficulty halt for 2 weeks and jump even more then the last month added up.

It looks like it may remain low, or even decrease again in seven days.  That said, there's no telling when a new mine will come online.

[abyrnes81]

Interesting thing , but  I don't think this is the first time that the diff. has been reduced ? Or am I wrong ?

You are correct, but it's the first time we've seen a decrease in almost two years.

Also you're right , do we know what has reduced the diff ? Or are only a lot of *home-miners* that have turned off their hardware machine ?

[TracerX]

Interesting thing , but  I don't think this is the first time that the diff. has been reduced ? Or am I wrong ?

You are correct, but it's the first time we've seen a decrease in almost two years.

Also you're right , do we know what has reduced the diff ? Or are only a lot of *home-miners* that have turned off their hardware machine ?

I'm under the impression that the general consensus is that the current BTC price has slowed the number of new units coming online.  There seems to be plenty of stock available (from both BM and SP) on shelves now, which leads me to believe that sales may have started to slow.  Combined that with the fact that some miners, hobbyist or professionals, may be turning off some of the 1WGh machines in their possession and you've got a solid case against difficulty rising.

It could also be that miners are waiting to buy until new products are announced with more power efficient chips.

[thefunkybits]

Hopefully the difficulty will last few more months. I am sick of seeing the difficulty halt for 2 weeks and jump even more then the last month added up.

It looks like it may remain low, or even decrease again in seven days.  That said, there's no telling when a new mine will come online.

The last time difficulty decreased it slumped for about 6 months, Maybe if the price picks back up we'll get another boost in hashrate

[davejh]

Hopefully the difficulty will last few more months. I am sick of seeing the difficulty halt for 2 weeks and jump even more then the last month added up.

It looks like it may remain low, or even decrease again in seven days.  That said, there's no telling when a new mine will come online.

The last time difficulty decreased it slumped for about 6 months, Maybe if the price picks back up we'll get another boost in hashrate

Almost certainly. I forecast a significant slowdown in the hash rate expansion back in April, which to be fair wasn't as accurate as it should have been because I overestimated the cost of wholesale hashing and electricity (http://hashingit.com/analysis/24-megawatts-of-mining), but the model was essentially correct (I now have a much more accurate model). The hash rate expansion is pretty-much funded as a large fraction of the USD-denominated Bitcoin mining reward. This has dropped off significantly recently because the hash rate has slowed down (so we're finding nearer 144 blocks per day instead of > 160) and because of the BTC:USD price.

At a given BTC price there's a steady state where most of the money ends up going to hosting, maintenance, electricity costs - essentially all opex. That shifts when new hardware comes online that dramatically reduces operating costs and causes older equipment to be taken offline. 16 nm ASICs are probably the next such technology shift so I wouldn't expect to see much change until then if the BTC price remains constant.

The model predicted that when we hit a steady state where hardware margins had been tightly squeezed then we'd see about a 2x per year increase in hash rate. If we take that 2x per year then that works out at a mean difficulty increase of 2.6% each time for a year. Given the noise in the statistics for hash rate estimates then that would typically mean seeing difficulty changes of between -2.4% and 7.6% about 90% of the time. Now of course the real world won't work quite that predictably but the trend should be reasonably consistent.

What the model can't tell you is what will happen to the BTC price. If it jumps 2x then things will go mad for a few months until the hash rate catches up - in fact it would more than double; older, less power efficient hardware would be taken offline faster as people sought to use their available power more efficiently, but then new power and hashing would come online too. If the prices drops 2x then new investments cease and older equipment goes offline a little quicker but most of the hash rate is probably now more power efficient and so the hash rate wouldn't halve.

[yenzae0215]

Interesting thing , but  I don't think this is the first time that the diff. has been reduced ? Or am I wrong ?

You are correct, but it's the first time we've seen a decrease in almost two years.

Also you're right , do we know what has reduced the diff ? Or are only a lot of *home-miners* that have turned off their hardware machine ?

maybe the number of miners has been decreased?

[DrG]

Basically it has been sustained unrelenting growth ever since the 1/2ing back in the end of 2012.  Don't look at the difficulty back then, it will make you cry.

[paradoxum]

Basically it has been sustained unrelenting growth ever since the 1/2ing back in the end of 2012.  Don't look at the difficulty back then, it will make you cry.

Don't remind me.  The last 2 years have been far worse to me in BTC than the 2 prior to that.

[RD965]

Basically it has been sustained unrelenting growth ever since the 1/2ing back in the end of 2012.  Don't look at the difficulty back then, it will make you cry.

I dont think the diff was lowering before 2012, its always going up (good for us people hello? There is 21m total)

We just hope the future make us cry on happyness more than the past 

[DrG]

Basically it has been sustained unrelenting growth ever since the 1/2ing back in the end of 2012.  Don't look at the difficulty back then, it will make you cry.

I dont think the diff was lowering before 2012, its always going up (good for us people hello? There is 21m total)

We just hope the future make us cry on happyness more than the past 

It went down several times in 2012.  In fact when BTC crashed to $2 in early 2012 difficulty went back to 1 million before bouncing back towards the end of the year even with the Pirate scandal.

[oblixster]

Very marginal reduction, hope to enjoy it for a few weeks before more profitable hardware hits the market and it starts increasing again

[Soros Shorts]

I'm kind of happy that it's been a while since we've seen those annoying mining calculator predictions based on the assumption of an exponentially increasing hash rate that goes on forever.

[gkv9]

I'm kind of happy that it's been a while since we've seen those annoying mining calculator predictions based on the assumption of an exponentially increasing hash rate that goes on forever.

But I would like to know whether the calculations shown by different mining calculators does have any significance in them or they are worth nothing? Except difficulty, is everything that's predicted there, true?

[TracerX]

I'm kind of happy that it's been a while since we've seen those annoying mining calculator predictions based on the assumption of an exponentially increasing hash rate that goes on forever.

But I would like to know whether the calculations shown by different mining calculators does have any significance in them or they are worth nothing? Except difficulty, is everything that's predicted there, true?

Well, the only real variable is difficulty and mining uptime.  If your device (with known output and power costs) stays up an average of 95% of the time, then the real variable you have to consider is difficulty.  So most mining calculators are correct, but guessing the difficulty is just that, a guess.

Cheers.

[GigaBit]

Again today

I'm liking that PayCoin now, looks like it's relieving some much of the excess tension in the Bitcoin network.

Also looks like it will go down again, it's already set for a 1.33% decrease next time (@11AM -6GMT) too.

[ChuckBuck]

Hmm two difficulty reductions in a row.  Could this be a trend?

Difficulty History

Code:

Date	Difficulty	Change	Hash Rate
Dec 17 2014	39,457,671,307	-1.37%	282,449,013 GH/s
Dec 02 2014	40,007,470,271	-0.73%	286,384,627 GH/s
Nov 18 2014	40,300,030,328	1.76%	288,478,854 GH/s
Nov 05 2014	39,603,666,252	10.05%	283,494,086 GH/s
Oct 23 2014	35,985,640,265	2.81%	257,595,247 GH/s
Oct 09 2014	35,002,482,026	0.98%	250,557,526 GH/s
Sep 25 2014	34,661,425,924	16.20%	248,116,151 GH/s
Sep 13 2014	29,829,733,124	8.75%	213,529,547 GH/s
Aug 31 2014	27,428,630,902	15.03%	196,341,788 GH/s
Aug 19 2014	23,844,670,039	20.86%	170,686,797 GH/s
Aug 08 2014	19,729,645,941	5.30%	141,230,307 GH/s
Jul 25 2014	18,736,441,558	8.08%	134,120,673 GH/s
Jul 12 2014	17,336,316,979	3.08%	124,098,191 GH/s
Jun 29 2014	16,818,461,371	24.93%	120,391,236 GH/s
Jun 18 2014	13,462,580,115	14.51%	96,368,902 GH/s
Jun 05 2014	11,756,551,917	12.44%	84,156,677 GH/s
May 24 2014	10,455,720,138	18.10%	74,844,960 GH/s
May 12 2014	8,853,416,309	10.66%	63,375,223 GH/s
Apr 29 2014	8,000,872,136	14.64%	57,272,474 GH/s
Apr 17 2014	6,978,842,650	14.04%	49,956,502 GH/s
Apr 05 2014	6,119,726,089	22.23%	43,806,706 GH/s
Mar 24 2014	5,006,860,589	17.80%	35,840,504 GH/s
Mar 13 2014	4,250,217,920	11.39%	30,424,245 GH/s
Feb 28 2014	3,815,723,799	21.92%	27,314,015 GH/s
Feb 17 2014	3,129,573,175	19.39%	22,402,357 GH/s
Feb 05 2014	2,621,404,453	19.49%	18,764,744 GH/s
Jan 24 2014	2,193,847,870	22.59%	15,704,175 GH/s
Jan 13 2014	1,789,546,951	26.16%	12,810,076 GH/s
Jan 02 2014	1,418,481,395	20.12%	10,153,885 GH/s
Dec 21 2013	1,180,923,195	30.01%	8,453,378 GH/s
Dec 10 2013	908,350,862	28.41%	6,502,229 GH/s
Nov 29 2013	707,408,283	16.07%	5,063,826 GH/s
Nov 17 2013	609,482,680	19.29%	4,362,847 GH/s
Nov 05 2013	510,929,738	30.70%	3,657,378 GH/s
Oct 26 2013	390,928,788	46.02%	2,798,377 GH/s
Oct 16 2013	267,731,249	41.45%	1,916,495 GH/s
Oct 06 2013	189,281,249	27.19%	1,354,928 GH/s
Sep 25 2013	148,819,200	32.13%	1,065,289 GH/s
Sep 14 2013	112,628,549	29.56%	806,227 GH/s
Sep 04 2013	86,933,018	32.22%	622,291 GH/s
Aug 24 2013	65,750,060	29.40%	470,657 GH/s
Aug 13 2013	50,810,339	35.88%	363,715 GH/s
Aug 03 2013	37,392,766	19.63%	267,668 GH/s
Jul 22 2013	31,256,961	19.47%	223,746 GH/s
Jul 11 2013	26,162,876	22.63%	187,281 GH/s
Jun 29 2013	21,335,329	10.32%	152,724 GH/s
Jun 16 2013	19,339,258	23.92%	138,436 GH/s
Jun 05 2013	15,605,633	28.41%	111,709 GH/s
May 25 2013	12,153,412	8.64%	86,998 GH/s

Hoping for a double digit difficulty decrease (say that 5 times fast), so I can start mining with my Surface Pro 3!  Just playin', but maybe not really.   

[GigaBit]

Look at the hash power at XPY from CoinWarz M8

There's nearly 100PH/s there and 250PH/s @ Bitcoin

Hmm two difficulty reductions in a row.  Could this be a trend?

Difficulty History

Code:

Date	Difficulty	Change	Hash Rate
Dec 17 2014	39,457,671,307	-1.37%	282,449,013 GH/s
Dec 02 2014	40,007,470,271	-0.73%	286,384,627 GH/s
Nov 18 2014	40,300,030,328	1.76%	288,478,854 GH/s
Nov 05 2014	39,603,666,252	10.05%	283,494,086 GH/s
Oct 23 2014	35,985,640,265	2.81%	257,595,247 GH/s
Oct 09 2014	35,002,482,026	0.98%	250,557,526 GH/s
Sep 25 2014	34,661,425,924	16.20%	248,116,151 GH/s
Sep 13 2014	29,829,733,124	8.75%	213,529,547 GH/s
Aug 31 2014	27,428,630,902	15.03%	196,341,788 GH/s
Aug 19 2014	23,844,670,039	20.86%	170,686,797 GH/s
Aug 08 2014	19,729,645,941	5.30%	141,230,307 GH/s
Jul 25 2014	18,736,441,558	8.08%	134,120,673 GH/s
Jul 12 2014	17,336,316,979	3.08%	124,098,191 GH/s
Jun 29 2014	16,818,461,371	24.93%	120,391,236 GH/s
Jun 18 2014	13,462,580,115	14.51%	96,368,902 GH/s
Jun 05 2014	11,756,551,917	12.44%	84,156,677 GH/s
May 24 2014	10,455,720,138	18.10%	74,844,960 GH/s
May 12 2014	8,853,416,309	10.66%	63,375,223 GH/s
Apr 29 2014	8,000,872,136	14.64%	57,272,474 GH/s
Apr 17 2014	6,978,842,650	14.04%	49,956,502 GH/s
Apr 05 2014	6,119,726,089	22.23%	43,806,706 GH/s
Mar 24 2014	5,006,860,589	17.80%	35,840,504 GH/s
Mar 13 2014	4,250,217,920	11.39%	30,424,245 GH/s
Feb 28 2014	3,815,723,799	21.92%	27,314,015 GH/s
Feb 17 2014	3,129,573,175	19.39%	22,402,357 GH/s
Feb 05 2014	2,621,404,453	19.49%	18,764,744 GH/s
Jan 24 2014	2,193,847,870	22.59%	15,704,175 GH/s
Jan 13 2014	1,789,546,951	26.16%	12,810,076 GH/s
Jan 02 2014	1,418,481,395	20.12%	10,153,885 GH/s
Dec 21 2013	1,180,923,195	30.01%	8,453,378 GH/s
Dec 10 2013	908,350,862	28.41%	6,502,229 GH/s
Nov 29 2013	707,408,283	16.07%	5,063,826 GH/s
Nov 17 2013	609,482,680	19.29%	4,362,847 GH/s
Nov 05 2013	510,929,738	30.70%	3,657,378 GH/s
Oct 26 2013	390,928,788	46.02%	2,798,377 GH/s
Oct 16 2013	267,731,249	41.45%	1,916,495 GH/s
Oct 06 2013	189,281,249	27.19%	1,354,928 GH/s
Sep 25 2013	148,819,200	32.13%	1,065,289 GH/s
Sep 14 2013	112,628,549	29.56%	806,227 GH/s
Sep 04 2013	86,933,018	32.22%	622,291 GH/s
Aug 24 2013	65,750,060	29.40%	470,657 GH/s
Aug 13 2013	50,810,339	35.88%	363,715 GH/s
Aug 03 2013	37,392,766	19.63%	267,668 GH/s
Jul 22 2013	31,256,961	19.47%	223,746 GH/s
Jul 11 2013	26,162,876	22.63%	187,281 GH/s
Jun 29 2013	21,335,329	10.32%	152,724 GH/s
Jun 16 2013	19,339,258	23.92%	138,436 GH/s
Jun 05 2013	15,605,633	28.41%	111,709 GH/s
May 25 2013	12,153,412	8.64%	86,998 GH/s

Hoping for a double digit difficulty decrease (say that 5 times fast), so I can start mining with my Surface Pro 3!  Just playin', but maybe not really.   

[TracerX]

Look at the hash power at XPY from CoinWarz M8

There's nearly 100PH/s there and 250PH/s @ Bitcoin

Hmm two difficulty reductions in a row.  Could this be a trend?

Difficulty History

Code:

Date	Difficulty	Change	Hash Rate
Dec 17 2014	39,457,671,307	-1.37%	282,449,013 GH/s
Dec 02 2014	40,007,470,271	-0.73%	286,384,627 GH/s
Nov 18 2014	40,300,030,328	1.76%	288,478,854 GH/s
Nov 05 2014	39,603,666,252	10.05%	283,494,086 GH/s
Oct 23 2014	35,985,640,265	2.81%	257,595,247 GH/s
Oct 09 2014	35,002,482,026	0.98%	250,557,526 GH/s
Sep 25 2014	34,661,425,924	16.20%	248,116,151 GH/s
Sep 13 2014	29,829,733,124	8.75%	213,529,547 GH/s
Aug 31 2014	27,428,630,902	15.03%	196,341,788 GH/s
Aug 19 2014	23,844,670,039	20.86%	170,686,797 GH/s
Aug 08 2014	19,729,645,941	5.30%	141,230,307 GH/s
Jul 25 2014	18,736,441,558	8.08%	134,120,673 GH/s
Jul 12 2014	17,336,316,979	3.08%	124,098,191 GH/s
Jun 29 2014	16,818,461,371	24.93%	120,391,236 GH/s
Jun 18 2014	13,462,580,115	14.51%	96,368,902 GH/s
Jun 05 2014	11,756,551,917	12.44%	84,156,677 GH/s
May 24 2014	10,455,720,138	18.10%	74,844,960 GH/s
May 12 2014	8,853,416,309	10.66%	63,375,223 GH/s
Apr 29 2014	8,000,872,136	14.64%	57,272,474 GH/s
Apr 17 2014	6,978,842,650	14.04%	49,956,502 GH/s
Apr 05 2014	6,119,726,089	22.23%	43,806,706 GH/s
Mar 24 2014	5,006,860,589	17.80%	35,840,504 GH/s
Mar 13 2014	4,250,217,920	11.39%	30,424,245 GH/s
Feb 28 2014	3,815,723,799	21.92%	27,314,015 GH/s
Feb 17 2014	3,129,573,175	19.39%	22,402,357 GH/s
Feb 05 2014	2,621,404,453	19.49%	18,764,744 GH/s
Jan 24 2014	2,193,847,870	22.59%	15,704,175 GH/s
Jan 13 2014	1,789,546,951	26.16%	12,810,076 GH/s
Jan 02 2014	1,418,481,395	20.12%	10,153,885 GH/s
Dec 21 2013	1,180,923,195	30.01%	8,453,378 GH/s
Dec 10 2013	908,350,862	28.41%	6,502,229 GH/s
Nov 29 2013	707,408,283	16.07%	5,063,826 GH/s
Nov 17 2013	609,482,680	19.29%	4,362,847 GH/s
Nov 05 2013	510,929,738	30.70%	3,657,378 GH/s
Oct 26 2013	390,928,788	46.02%	2,798,377 GH/s
Oct 16 2013	267,731,249	41.45%	1,916,495 GH/s
Oct 06 2013	189,281,249	27.19%	1,354,928 GH/s
Sep 25 2013	148,819,200	32.13%	1,065,289 GH/s
Sep 14 2013	112,628,549	29.56%	806,227 GH/s
Sep 04 2013	86,933,018	32.22%	622,291 GH/s
Aug 24 2013	65,750,060	29.40%	470,657 GH/s
Aug 13 2013	50,810,339	35.88%	363,715 GH/s
Aug 03 2013	37,392,766	19.63%	267,668 GH/s
Jul 22 2013	31,256,961	19.47%	223,746 GH/s
Jul 11 2013	26,162,876	22.63%	187,281 GH/s
Jun 29 2013	21,335,329	10.32%	152,724 GH/s
Jun 16 2013	19,339,258	23.92%	138,436 GH/s
Jun 05 2013	15,605,633	28.41%	111,709 GH/s
May 25 2013	12,153,412	8.64%	86,998 GH/s

Hoping for a double digit difficulty decrease (say that 5 times fast), so I can start mining with my Surface Pro 3!  Just playin', but maybe not really.   

We'll be getting that hash back in the BTC network in the next day or so, rental rates have plummeted in the last 12 hours.

[SMB-2525]

But I would like to know whether the calculations shown by different mining calculators does have any significance in them or they are worth nothing? Except difficulty, is everything that's predicted there, true?

This one has most of the knobs you need.
http://aleks1k.github.io/bitcoin-calculator/
My spreadsheet has the ability to set the difficulty and duration for each period so it has a couple more knobs.

[Bananana]

Although the difficulty has been reduced but bitcoin dropped so much. At the end, profitability drop again

[GigaBit]

Although the difficulty has been reduced but bitcoin dropped so much. At the end, profitability drop again

True that... on personal mining... you can make that hashing power make a lot more than what the pool pays you.

However, Bitcoin's / cryptos are an educated risk taker's game. 

It's like gold mining, even though you lease a claim with proven gold on it, don't mean you'll get any of it, if you get any at all.

Claim owner ain't responsible if you go home broke, you failed to plan.

Then the gold buyer takes a cut that can go up to 10%...

Master Gold Mining, you'll master Bitcoin Mining a lot faster, that's a guarantee...

[btckold24]

we need difficulty to keep dropping. Hopefully it will spark these asic developers to actually make a machine that isnt total junk after 3-5 months

[RD965]

Its just gawminers, calm everyone

[lightfoot]

I think the problem is mining farms with 2-3w/gh equipment were holding on for a bit but now can't mine at a loss. Couple that with very little real capacity coming online and diffciulty goes down.

I wonder if the "new chips" will be real, will come out on time, or are just more vaporware. There is a difference between what a chip can do in a lab as opposed to on a real world system.

[nocroom]

we need difficulty to keep dropping. Hopefully it will spark these asic developers to actually make a machine that isnt total junk after 3-5 months

why would they, keeps you coming back for more

$$$$$$

[UnlikelyStory]

new blocks were taking way too long lately...

[GigaBit]

Bitcoin Difficulty:   39,457,671,307
Estimated Next Difficulty:   37,161,354,884 (-5.82%)
Adjust time:   After 1287 Blocks, About 9.6 days
Hashrate(?):   262,677,817 GH/s
Block Generation Time(?):   
1 block: 10.7 minutes
3 blocks: 32.1 minutes
6 blocks: 1.1 hours
Updated:   11:5 (5.7 minutes ago)

Shakes magic 8 ball - all signs point to yes.

[RD965]

Bitcoin Difficulty:   39,457,671,307
Estimated Next Difficulty:   37,161,354,884 (-5.82%)
Adjust time:   After 1287 Blocks, About 9.6 days
Hashrate(?):   262,677,817 GH/s
Block Generation Time(?):   
1 block: 10.7 minutes
3 blocks: 32.1 minutes
6 blocks: 1.1 hours
Updated:   11:5 (5.7 minutes ago)

Shakes magic 8 ball - all signs point to yes.

You know thats always an estimate right?

[lightfoot]

In the absence of a major disruption it tends to be pretty accurate. Still, a 5% drop is not going to erase the 10-20% runups we kept having every 2 weeks. That was beyond crazy.

Will be interesting to see what happens. Aside from all the ponzi scheme "cloud mining" things imploding, has there been any news about major mining farms going away/under/whatever?

[RD965]

In the absence of a major disruption it tends to be pretty accurate. Still, a 5% drop is not going to erase the 10-20% runups we kept having every 2 weeks. That was beyond crazy.

Will be interesting to see what happens. Aside from all the ponzi scheme "cloud mining" things imploding, has there been any news about major mining farms going away/under/whatever?

Dont be confused theres new farms everyday, and new businesses built around mining, it just goes fast and sometimes a relatively big hasher goes obsolete or runs onto problems and they have to stop, but its just a momentum thing, its going to keep going up im afraid 

[lightfoot]

True true, and due to the magic of arbitage it is simply impossible to make profits mining. I keep telling people that and they just don't seem to get it. You may have a short term advantage for a bit as you roll out a new technology but because the cost of entry is low someone else will build the same thing and profits will go back to zero. It is a pure and simple zero sum game(*).

It's weird. Right now I'm guessing people overshot and are now taking losses. You can mine at a loss for a bit, but since power costs are real you eventually either have to pay for it or come up with a ponzi scheme. Most people will drop out, the schemers will keep difficulty artifically high till it collapses and things drop.

That might be what's happening here. Time will tell....

(*) There might be a way out with transaction fees, I'm not sure because as the fees go up more people mine and you're back to a zero-sum problem. Hm.

[RD965]

True true, and due to the magic of arbitage it is simply impossible to make profits mining. I keep telling people that and they just don't seem to get it. You may have a short term advantage for a bit as you roll out a new technology but because the cost of entry is low someone else will build the same thing and profits will go back to zero. It is a pure and simple zero sum game(*).

It's weird. Right now I'm guessing people overshot and are now taking losses. You can mine at a loss for a bit, but since power costs are real you eventually either have to pay for it or come up with a ponzi scheme. Most people will drop out, the schemers will keep difficulty artifically high till it collapses and things drop.

That might be what's happening here. Time will tell....

(*) There might be a way out with transaction fees, I'm not sure because as the fees go up more people mine and you're back to a zero-sum problem. Hm.

Well im sorry mate but youre not really on the numbers if youre saying that lol

Mining is not profitable dice VAYA PAVO 

[lightfoot]

Well im sorry mate but youre not really on the numbers if youre saying that lol

Mining is not profitable dice VAYA PAVO  

It's an economics thing: Bitcoin mining is what we would call a "perfect marketplace" with what is pretty close to perfect competition. According to Wikipedia this is:

    Perfect market information (Yep, Bitcoin is that)
    No participant with market power to set prices (Correct, it's a pure commodity)
    Non intervention by governments (They can try :-)
    No barriers to entry or exit (With mining "contracts" and cheap hardware this is so)
    Equal access to factors of production (We all have power and math)
    Profit maximization (Everyone is going for max profit)
    No Externalities

The best you can hope for is "normal profits" which is just enough to keep people in the business. Once again WP has it right:

This attribute of perfect markets has profound political and economic implications, as many participants assume or are taught that the purpose of the market is to enable participants to maximize profits. It is not. The purpose of the market is to efficiently allocate resources and to maximize the welfare of consumers and producers alike. The market therefore regards excess profits, or economic rents, as a signal of inefficiency, that is of market failure, which is to say, not achieving a Pareto optimum.

That is *exactly* what mining is doing. Any excess in short term profits will be met by more people entering to hash. So if you go in thinking you will make a "lot of money", it's probably not going to happen :-)

The best that happens is you make opportunity profit, which is just enough to stick around instead of saying "fuck it" and doing something else. However that's in an irrational market. Think about how many people go on about "martingale" betting "systems" and you will realize that the market is not rational.

It's still fun to do. What is concerning me though is that if mining power is concentrated in a few locations, govts can start to apply pressure on those locations and knock bitcoin out of whack. From a govt point of view, the fewer miners, the fewer (but larger) farms the better. This happened with ISP's (so much easier for the NSA to put a tap in a big ISP pipe than a lot of little ones).

I worry it will happen to Bitcoin. I really do.

[RD965]

Well im sorry mate but youre not really on the numbers if youre saying that lol

Mining is not profitable dice VAYA PAVO  

It's an economics thing: Bitcoin mining is what we would call a "perfect marketplace" with what is pretty close to perfect competition. According to Wikipedia this is:

    Perfect market information (Yep, Bitcoin is that)
    No participant with market power to set prices (Correct, it's a pure commodity)
    Non intervention by governments (They can try :-)
    No barriers to entry or exit (With mining "contracts" and cheap hardware this is so)
    Equal access to factors of production (We all have power and math)
    Profit maximization (Everyone is going for max profit)
    No Externalities

The best you can hope for is "normal profits" which is just enough to keep people in the business. Once again WP has it right:

This attribute of perfect markets has profound political and economic implications, as many participants assume or are taught that the purpose of the market is to enable participants to maximize profits. It is not. The purpose of the market is to efficiently allocate resources and to maximize the welfare of consumers and producers alike. The market therefore regards excess profits, or economic rents, as a signal of inefficiency, that is of market failure, which is to say, not achieving a Pareto optimum.

That is *exactly* what mining is doing. Any excess in short term profits will be met by more people entering to hash. So if you go in thinking you will make a "lot of money", it's probably not going to happen :-)

The best that happens is you make opportunity profit, which is just enough to stick around instead of saying "fuck it" and doing something else. However that's in an irrational market. Think about how many people go on about "martingale" betting "systems" and you will realize that the market is not rational.

It's still fun to do. What is concerning me though is that if mining power is concentrated in a few locations, govts can start to apply pressure on those locations and knock bitcoin out of whack. From a govt point of view, the fewer miners, the fewer (but larger) farms the better. This happened with ISP's (so much easier for the NSA to put a tap in a big ISP pipe than a lot of little ones).

I worry it will happen to Bitcoin. I really do.

What is all this bullshit? Were talking if mining is profitable right? Well im telling you it is, and this is about finance AND economics. The best wealth managers in the world yield about 6-7% a year, and thats the best investment you can find anywhere, that is not a ponzi scheme of course.

So check some prices, choose a place in the world with cheap electricity, make a bulk buy and setup a farm! And enjoy the returns from your fiat thanks to price going up compensating any possible loss due to diff!

Theres no business in the world like mining, dont be a fool 

[lightfoot]

What is all this bullshit? Were talking if mining is profitable right? Well im telling you it is, and this is about finance AND economics. The best wealth managers in the world yield about 6-7% a year, and thats the best investment you can find anywhere, that is not a ponzi scheme of course.

So check some prices, choose a place in the world with cheap electricity, make a bulk buy and setup a farm! And enjoy the returns from your fiat thanks to price going up compensating any possible loss due to diff!

Theres no business in the world like mining, dont be a fool 

That "bullshit" is basic economic facts. It's ok, this is good to know and adds to my understanding of "why things are". I mean you realize that if you think the price of bitcoin is going up it's easier to just buy the stuff than mine...

Me, I mine because I am too god-damn lazy to figure out how to buy it. Such is life. :-)

[RD965]

What is all this bullshit? Were talking if mining is profitable right? Well im telling you it is, and this is about finance AND economics. The best wealth managers in the world yield about 6-7% a year, and thats the best investment you can find anywhere, that is not a ponzi scheme of course.

So check some prices, choose a place in the world with cheap electricity, make a bulk buy and setup a farm! And enjoy the returns from your fiat thanks to price going up compensating any possible loss due to diff!

Theres no business in the world like mining, dont be a fool 

That "bullshit" is basic economic facts. It's ok, this is good to know and adds to my understanding of "why things are". I mean you realize that if you think the price of bitcoin is going up it's easier to just buy the stuff than mine...

Me, I mine because I am too god-damn lazy to figure out how to buy it. Such is life. :-)

You either produce the gold or buy the gold that is been produced

Make things simple and have a macroeconomic perspective and youll be right!

I personally prefer to produce 

[Bananana]

I believe this hash rate reduce is just temporary, look at S5. Batch 1 just come out for sale and its sold out in a day. Still a lot of miners buying hardware...

[qs.lab]

Its just gawminers, calm everyone

cool!

[crazyearner]

Will be good to see continued diff de crease but to be honest I doubt it will come to a point where it will be worth mining as right now prices worthless diff too high unless you got like 1PH of mining equipment and free energy to mine with or very cheap energy to make it worth while. Ascis killed sha coins too fast and bigger units coming out I dont see it profitable unless theirs some massive price increases in BTC to sustain it.

[Bananana]

What just happened? https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty, network hashrate suddenly shot to the roof and the prediction has change from negative to positive.

Is it due to S5?

[crazyearner]

What just happened? https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty, network hashrate suddenly shot to the roof and the prediction has change from negative to positive.

Is it due to S5?

More than likely due to them coming online and other equipment going on to it too as not just s5 come out but other machines that ahve made around 2, 5, and 10TH mining rigs and dont forget with the antminers that have a massive army under testing but many know they will mine with our equipment before sending and claim its a burn in test when their actually switching so many on and off and testing and making a bucket load of bitcoin. And to also add to it their new online mining contracts too that their selling as well so no doubt it will increase eand cause a + sign if it takes less time then + diff if longer time then - figures but I doubt it will continue to go down maybe a few times but mainly on the up trend unless everyone was to stop mining.

[lightfoot]

Ok, we're back in the queen's race. Where everyone has to run and run faster to stay in place.

[crazyearner]

Ok, we're back in the queen's race. Where everyone has to run and run faster to stay in place.

Always been that way run faster or go home. So long as equipment is cheap enough and powerful enough then ud be in with a chance like when Avalon first come out they where kick ass and making a tun of coins then when more come out and batchs 2 3 and so on then more equipment come out making them worthless. Same for antminers worthless unless you got free energy now and even the s5 new ones are looking very tempting but doubtful to brake even on them

[lightfoot]

Always been that way run faster or go home. So long as equipment is cheap enough and powerful enough then ud be in with a chance like when Avalon first come out they where kick ass and making a tun of coins then when more come out and batchs 2 3 and so on then more equipment come out making them worthless. Same for antminers worthless unless you got free energy now and even the s5 new ones are looking very tempting but doubtful to brake even on them

Yup, a perfect marketplace. Irrational one as well, people are going to buy even the S5's and mine at a loss :-)

[crazyearner]

Always been that way run faster or go home. So long as equipment is cheap enough and powerful enough then ud be in with a chance like when Avalon first come out they where kick ass and making a tun of coins then when more come out and batchs 2 3 and so on then more equipment come out making them worthless. Same for antminers worthless unless you got free energy now and even the s5 new ones are looking very tempting but doubtful to brake even on them

Yup, a perfect marketplace. Irrational one as well, people are going to buy even the S5's and mine at a loss :-)

Just depends on what you mine when I got my S1s I didnt mine BTC took them to alt coins and if I decide on buying any the s5 I might consider but import tax gonna kill me for 1 and be totally out of pocket then and 2 its a tough world in crypto to mine at profit right now unless free energy or cheap and BTC mining is worthless unless you can get everything cheap. I know if I go to turning my miners on I will only do on newer alt coins for a few days grab some of them and then wait it out.

[RD965]

Always been that way run faster or go home. So long as equipment is cheap enough and powerful enough then ud be in with a chance like when Avalon first come out they where kick ass and making a tun of coins then when more come out and batchs 2 3 and so on then more equipment come out making them worthless. Same for antminers worthless unless you got free energy now and even the s5 new ones are looking very tempting but doubtful to brake even on them

Yup, a perfect marketplace. Irrational one as well, people are going to buy even the S5's and mine at a loss :-)

Mining is a quite proftitable activity, and the only business where you get your $ back in less than 6 months, and all of that at these awful prices and high diff


So please stop saying that, if youre a kid with some miners in your home room of course you mine at a loss moron, were talking business here, home mining is dead ages ago, except for free electricity folks

[lightfoot]

Mining is a quite proftitable activity, and the only business where you get your $ back in less than 6 months, and all of that at these awful prices and high diff

Really? So tell me what the rate of return is on some of these mining farms (on average, include *all* in a given class, and don't make it "people with an in with equipment makers). Remember you can cherry pick a ponzi to show amazing profits as well, so be sure to include all of them.

So please stop saying that, if youre a kid with some miners in your home room of course you mine at a loss moron, were talking business here, home mining is dead ages ago, except for free electricity folks

Um, it doesn't matter if you have one miner or a million. If the cost of electricity is more than the amount the unit can hash (don't forget to multiply by .3 for the cooling!) you will run at a net loss. If the cost of electricity plus investment costs is more than the unit will make in an operating lifetime, you will not make a profit. Economies of scale have some value, but oddly enough the profit per miner on a single guy's miner is probably higher than the ppm for a farm where they have to pay higher electrical rates and the cost for cooling, space, etc.

Now, if you add *VALUE* then that is a very different story. I made a good profit in mining not by running my one little jalapeno at 5gh in August 2013, but because I boosted it to 20gh then 24 with my own brains and skills. I added value. If you build a new super chip you can make money selling the equipment, and possibly make good profits mining, but that's because your design added value to the universe.

Sorry I really get *VERY* annoyed at the concept that mining is "free money". Too many people have been fucked over by that. The more people that get into it, the lower the profits because the mighty profits are 25 bitcoins every 10 minutes spread across *all* of the miners. That don't change. And the more people who go in with expectations of a negative return simply turn a queen's race into a dollar auction.

Never play "dollar auction" by the way. :-)

[RD965]

Mining is a quite proftitable activity, and the only business where you get your $ back in less than 6 months, and all of that at these awful prices and high diff

Really? So tell me what the rate of return is on some of these mining farms (on average, include *all* in a given class, and don't make it "people with an in with equipment makers). Remember you can cherry pick a ponzi to show amazing profits as well, so be sure to include all of them.

So please stop saying that, if youre a kid with some miners in your home room of course you mine at a loss moron, were talking business here, home mining is dead ages ago, except for free electricity folks

Um, it doesn't matter if you have one miner or a million. If the cost of electricity is more than the amount the unit can hash (don't forget to multiply by .3 for the cooling!) you will run at a net loss. If the cost of electricity plus investment costs is more than the unit will make in an operating lifetime, you will not make a profit. Economies of scale have some value, but oddly enough the profit per miner on a single guy's miner is probably higher than the ppm for a farm where they have to pay higher electrical rates and the cost for cooling, space, etc.

Now, if you add *VALUE* then that is a very different story. I made a good profit in mining not by running my one little jalapeno at 5gh in August 2013, but because I boosted it to 20gh then 24 with my own brains and skills. I added value. If you build a new super chip you can make money selling the equipment, and possibly make good profits mining, but that's because your design added value to the universe.

Sorry I really get *VERY* annoyed at the concept that mining is "free money". Too many people have been fucked over by that. The more people that get into it, the lower the profits because the mighty profits are 25 bitcoins every 10 minutes spread across *all* of the miners. That don't change. And the more people who go in with expectations of a negative return simply turn a queen's race into a dollar auction.

Never play "dollar auction" by the way. :-)

Allright so all youve done in mining is with that scam company products, now I understand!


Im just trying to explain you how a business works, because you seem a bit lost in the economical environment


Wont bother anymore, far better that people think mining is not profitable dude, meanwhile ill keep my farms up and returning 300% a year (what a loss )

Cheers 

[lightfoot]

Wont bother anymore, far better that people think mining is not profitable dude, meanwhile ill keep my farms up and returning 300% a year (what a loss )

No problem at all, mine like hell and enjoy your returns. Hopefully people that follow your lead and advice will come back to thank you. :-)

And happy holidays!

[RD965]

Wont bother anymore, far better that people think mining is not profitable dude, meanwhile ill keep my farms up and returning 300% a year (what a loss )

No problem at all, mine like hell and enjoy your returns. Hopefully people that follow your lead and advice will come back to thank you. :-)

And happy holidays!

Not giving advice to anyone, just wanted to explain it to you

Dummy christmas!

[crazyearner]

Mining is a quite proftitable activity, and the only business where you get your $ back in less than 6 months, and all of that at these awful prices and high diff

Really? So tell me what the rate of return is on some of these mining farms (on average, include *all* in a given class, and don't make it "people with an in with equipment makers). Remember you can cherry pick a ponzi to show amazing profits as well, so be sure to include all of them.

So please stop saying that, if youre a kid with some miners in your home room of course you mine at a loss moron, were talking business here, home mining is dead ages ago, except for free electricity folks

Um, it doesn't matter if you have one miner or a million. If the cost of electricity is more than the amount the unit can hash (don't forget to multiply by .3 for the cooling!) you will run at a net loss. If the cost of electricity plus investment costs is more than the unit will make in an operating lifetime, you will not make a profit. Economies of scale have some value, but oddly enough the profit per miner on a single guy's miner is probably higher than the ppm for a farm where they have to pay higher electrical rates and the cost for cooling, space, etc.

Now, if you add *VALUE* then that is a very different story. I made a good profit in mining not by running my one little jalapeno at 5gh in August 2013, but because I boosted it to 20gh then 24 with my own brains and skills. I added value. If you build a new super chip you can make money selling the equipment, and possibly make good profits mining, but that's because your design added value to the universe.

Sorry I really get *VERY* annoyed at the concept that mining is "free money". Too many people have been fucked over by that. The more people that get into it, the lower the profits because the mighty profits are 25 bitcoins every 10 minutes spread across *all* of the miners. That don't change. And the more people who go in with expectations of a negative return simply turn a queen's race into a dollar auction.

Never play "dollar auction" by the way. :-)

Allright so all youve done in mining is with that scam company products, now I understand!


Im just trying to explain you how a business works, because you seem a bit lost in the economical environment


Wont bother anymore, far better that people think mining is not profitable dude, meanwhile ill keep my farms up and returning 300% a year (what a loss )

Cheers 

300% a year proof good luck on that then. Find it very hard to believe coinciding I been an early adopter of mining since early days of Bitcoin and other alts. 300% a year maybe if you got free energy or good contracts and cheap equipment. Far better ways to earn with crypto than mining now. Mining can be profitable providing many factors that I do not interned to speak of here, that's for other places where I help people build their stock and revenue from. How a business works is very simple only the admins and CEO of a business profit or actually give back to people but at a long time frame. Given a number of company's I am in they make promises to return in a 4 to 6 month time frame however they forget to factor a lot of things in. I like them all the same but far better things to put crypto or real money into than mining.

[RD965]

Mining is a quite proftitable activity, and the only business where you get your $ back in less than 6 months, and all of that at these awful prices and high diff

Really? So tell me what the rate of return is on some of these mining farms (on average, include *all* in a given class, and don't make it "people with an in with equipment makers). Remember you can cherry pick a ponzi to show amazing profits as well, so be sure to include all of them.

So please stop saying that, if youre a kid with some miners in your home room of course you mine at a loss moron, were talking business here, home mining is dead ages ago, except for free electricity folks

Um, it doesn't matter if you have one miner or a million. If the cost of electricity is more than the amount the unit can hash (don't forget to multiply by .3 for the cooling!) you will run at a net loss. If the cost of electricity plus investment costs is more than the unit will make in an operating lifetime, you will not make a profit. Economies of scale have some value, but oddly enough the profit per miner on a single guy's miner is probably higher than the ppm for a farm where they have to pay higher electrical rates and the cost for cooling, space, etc.

Now, if you add *VALUE* then that is a very different story. I made a good profit in mining not by running my one little jalapeno at 5gh in August 2013, but because I boosted it to 20gh then 24 with my own brains and skills. I added value. If you build a new super chip you can make money selling the equipment, and possibly make good profits mining, but that's because your design added value to the universe.

Sorry I really get *VERY* annoyed at the concept that mining is "free money". Too many people have been fucked over by that. The more people that get into it, the lower the profits because the mighty profits are 25 bitcoins every 10 minutes spread across *all* of the miners. That don't change. And the more people who go in with expectations of a negative return simply turn a queen's race into a dollar auction.

Never play "dollar auction" by the way. :-)

Allright so all youve done in mining is with that scam company products, now I understand!


Im just trying to explain you how a business works, because you seem a bit lost in the economical environment


Wont bother anymore, far better that people think mining is not profitable dude, meanwhile ill keep my farms up and returning 300% a year (what a loss )

Cheers 

300% a year proof good luck on that then. Find it very hard to believe coinciding I been an early adopter of mining since early days of Bitcoin and other alts. 300% a year maybe if you got free energy or good contracts and cheap equipment. Far better ways to earn with crypto than mining now. Mining can be profitable providing many factors that I do not interned to speak of here, that's for other places where I help people build their stock and revenue from. How a business works is very simple only the admins and CEO of a business profit or actually give back to people but at a long time frame. Given a number of company's I am in they make promises to return in a 4 to 6 month time frame however they forget to factor a lot of things in. I like them all the same but far better things to put crypto or real money into than mining.

Already owned warehouse, very cheap electricity and efficient miners, plus constant maintenance

The hell of a business

[lightfoot]

Already owned warehouse, very cheap electricity and efficient miners, plus constant maintenance

The hell of a business

Ok. So you have factored in the opportunity cost of using the warehouse, your time, maintenance time, electricity, taxes, initial investment in gear, and such into the 300% rate of return?

[RD965]

Already owned warehouse, very cheap electricity and efficient miners, plus constant maintenance

The hell of a business

Ok. So you have factored in the opportunity cost of using the warehouse, your time, maintenance time, electricity, taxes, initial investment in gear, and such into the 300% rate of return?

Obviously

[lightfoot]

Ok, so let me ask an on-topic question:

Where the hell is all this hashing power coming from?

Based on bitcoinwisdom it looks like we went from a 5% drop in hash rate to a 3.5% increase in a week. 8.5%. What's more it's taking on average 9 minutes to find a block, or a 10% boost in hashing power (or serious luck).

Where did 10% of new hashing power come from in 7 days? Bitmain? Maybe, but 30 petahashes (10% of 307ph) is 15,000 2th miners. That's either a lot of miners or my math is way, way off.

[Amph]

Ok, so let me ask an on-topic question:

Where the hell is all this hashing power coming from?

Based on bitcoinwisdom it looks like we went from a 5% drop in hash rate to a 3.5% increase in a week. 8.5%. What's more it's taking on average 9 minutes to find a block, or a 10% boost in hashing power (or serious luck).

Where did 10% of new hashing power come from in 7 days? Bitmain? Maybe, but 30 petahashes (10% of 307ph) is 15,000 2th miners. That's either a lot of miners or my math is way, way off.

china is my guess, they have easy access to asic and other stuff, they have free electricity also

[sumantso]

Ok, so let me ask an on-topic question:

Where the hell is all this hashing power coming from?

Based on bitcoinwisdom it looks like we went from a 5% drop in hash rate to a 3.5% increase in a week. 8.5%. What's more it's taking on average 9 minutes to find a block, or a 10% boost in hashing power (or serious luck).

Where did 10% of new hashing power come from in 7 days? Bitmain? Maybe, but 30 petahashes (10% of 307ph) is 15,000 2th miners. That's either a lot of miners or my math is way, way off.

My guess is that the next gen ASICs are already starting to hash. Its the old ASIC manufacturer's trick - build the next gen ones with advance money, mine and increase the difficulty, and then give it to the customers when diff is already high. 

[RD965]

Ok, so let me ask an on-topic question:

Where the hell is all this hashing power coming from?

Based on bitcoinwisdom it looks like we went from a 5% drop in hash rate to a 3.5% increase in a week. 8.5%. What's more it's taking on average 9 minutes to find a block, or a 10% boost in hashing power (or serious luck).

Where did 10% of new hashing power come from in 7 days? Bitmain? Maybe, but 30 petahashes (10% of 307ph) is 15,000 2th miners. That's either a lot of miners or my math is way, way off.

Why does it have to be a company that you know? You always want to know everything 

You really think is that expensive to setup a business like that?

[Bananana]

Ok, so let me ask an on-topic question:

Where the hell is all this hashing power coming from?

Based on bitcoinwisdom it looks like we went from a 5% drop in hash rate to a 3.5% increase in a week. 8.5%. What's more it's taking on average 9 minutes to find a block, or a 10% boost in hashing power (or serious luck).

Where did 10% of new hashing power come from in 7 days? Bitmain? Maybe, but 30 petahashes (10% of 307ph) is 15,000 2th miners. That's either a lot of miners or my math is way, way off.

china is my guess, they have easy access to asic and other stuff, they have free electricity also

Since when china have free electricity? Probably if you own the power plant but am I missing something?

[Amph]

Ok, so let me ask an on-topic question:

Where the hell is all this hashing power coming from?

Based on bitcoinwisdom it looks like we went from a 5% drop in hash rate to a 3.5% increase in a week. 8.5%. What's more it's taking on average 9 minutes to find a block, or a 10% boost in hashing power (or serious luck).

Where did 10% of new hashing power come from in 7 days? Bitmain? Maybe, but 30 petahashes (10% of 307ph) is 15,000 2th miners. That's either a lot of miners or my math is way, way off.

china is my guess, they have easy access to asic and other stuff, they have free electricity also

Since when china have free electricity? Probably if you own the power plant but am I missing something?

some user can abuse some power in their country, there was a photo about it, dunno it was really china or another country like vietnam

[RD965]

Ok, so let me ask an on-topic question:

Where the hell is all this hashing power coming from?

Based on bitcoinwisdom it looks like we went from a 5% drop in hash rate to a 3.5% increase in a week. 8.5%. What's more it's taking on average 9 minutes to find a block, or a 10% boost in hashing power (or serious luck).

Where did 10% of new hashing power come from in 7 days? Bitmain? Maybe, but 30 petahashes (10% of 307ph) is 15,000 2th miners. That's either a lot of miners or my math is way, way off.

china is my guess, they have easy access to asic and other stuff, they have free electricity also

Since when china have free electricity? Probably if you own the power plant but am I missing something?

There is many places where electricity is below .10$/kw/h

[Furio]

Ok, so let me ask an on-topic question:

Where the hell is all this hashing power coming from?

Based on bitcoinwisdom it looks like we went from a 5% drop in hash rate to a 3.5% increase in a week. 8.5%. What's more it's taking on average 9 minutes to find a block, or a 10% boost in hashing power (or serious luck).

Where did 10% of new hashing power come from in 7 days? Bitmain? Maybe, but 30 petahashes (10% of 307ph) is 15,000 2th miners. That's either a lot of miners or my math is way, way off.

china is my guess, they have easy access to asic and other stuff, they have free electricity also

Since when china have free electricity? Probably if you own the power plant but am I missing something?

There is many places where electricity is below .10$/kw/h

In Turkmenistan it's free for all citizins....

[rjshoemaker]

I am Glad to see a reduction in bitcoin difficulty, I was getting ready to pull the plug altogether

[jadefalke]

I am Glad to see a reduction in bitcoin difficulty, I was getting ready to pull the plug altogether

you should reconsider it, the next diff will be +14% at least...

[ensano]

I am Glad to see a reduction in bitcoin difficulty, I was getting ready to pull the plug altogether

sorry to break it to you but it's going up 15% on this next jump.

[lightfoot]

20%. But that's ok, one can make 300% profits in mining. :-)

Edit: No, maybe not...

[timk225]

What kind of idiot considers higher difficulty to be good?

The price is steadily dropping also, is that good?

[ensano]

What kind of idiot considers higher difficulty to be good?

The price is steadily dropping also, is that good?

price dropping is good for the home miner.  Lots of operations are operating on razor thin margins.  When price drops, unprofitable machines get turned off and difficulty drops with it.

[RD965]

20%. But that's ok, one can make 300% profits in mining. :-)

Edit: No, maybe not...

Still a lot more profitable than your average business

[sethminer14]

Yeah I haven't felt a difference so far...

[dr1980m]

Last situation mining is died for me
even cloud mining is die too
its not portable now..

[RD965]

Last situation mining is died for me
even cloud mining is die too
its not portable now..

Check your english before posting please

Cloud mining is always been a scam, if not it wouldnt be profitable

Portable is a different thing that profitable dude

[mistercoin]

I was surprised when the difficulty went down also..but the change is not enough to really make a big difference.

[Seketsuna]

Last situation mining is died for me
even cloud mining is die too
its not portable now..

Check your english before posting please

Cloud mining is always been a scam, if not it wouldnt be profitable

Portable is a different thing that profitable dude

the things i do for my sig campaign

This made my made lol

[noobtrader]

it seems that next difficulty is new ATH again...

Estimated Next Difficulty:   45,105,899,137 (+10.99%)


i wonder if next difficulty will drop like litecoin difficulty https://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/difficulty
the graph is so similiar

 

[RD965]

Last situation mining is died for me
even cloud mining is die too
its not portable now..

Check your english before posting please

Cloud mining is always been a scam, if not it wouldnt be profitable

Portable is a different thing that profitable dude

the things i do for my sig campaign

This made my made lol

Oh yeah the things you do 

Pot kettle

[DustyRah]

The next difficulty will be 10% more at 44283444912. Good luck to the miners!

[noobtrader]

The next difficulty will be 10% more at 44283444912. Good luck to the miners!

not too bad, at least its not 20% increase as it used to be

[Bitsaurus]

The next difficulty will be 10% more at 44283444912. Good luck to the miners!

not too bad, at least its not 20% increase as it used to be

10% increase with 10% fiat exchange rate drop - might as well effectively be the same thing.

[sevenseas]

So, GAW miners isn't profitable now?

[noobtrader]

So, GAW miners isn't profitable now?

i wonder which miner is still profitable now ?

[timk225]

Difficulty about to drop again.....  I told you so!

[noobtrader]

Difficulty about to drop again.....  I told you so!

i think we will see difficulty reduction just like litecoin's difficulty

[RD965]

Difficulty about to drop again.....  I told you so!

i think we will see difficulty reduction just like litecoin's difficulty

Dont think soo

[noobtrader]

Difficulty about to drop again.....  I told you so!

i think we will see difficulty reduction just like litecoin's difficulty

Dont think soo

why not ? if the price stay below 250 like this, i dont think mining is still a good business

[Furio]

Difficulty about to drop again.....  I told you so!

i think we will see difficulty reduction just like litecoin's difficulty

Dont think soo

why not ? if the price stay below 250 like this, i dont think mining is still a good business

Most definetely the difficulty will be reduces, cex.io stopped mining, nuff said....

[mrTorrio]

Difficulty has been reduced - difficulty has been increased.
Some kind of balance in nature I think 

[Amph]

Difficulty about to drop again.....  I told you so!

i think we will see difficulty reduction just like litecoin's difficulty

Dont think soo

why not ? if the price stay below 250 like this, i dont think mining is still a good business

if big farm mine with free energy or very cheap, and they made roi(presumably yes) then they can surely continue until zero or near it, current value is certainly far away from this

[lightfoot]

if big farm mine with free energy or very cheap, and they made roi(presumably yes) then they can surely continue until zero or near it, current value is certainly far away from this

Not really. You still have to pay for rent, a security guard, a flunkie to put out fires. It's possible that an evil mastermind could set up shop in an abandoned hydro dam, but you would still need to cover the cell phone bill for the internet access :-)

We'll see what happens. I have learned never to bet against human stupidity or self-delusion.

[muhrohmat]

well as far as i know btc mining sha256 its a bit more profitable than scrypt but the investemn on mining hardware even gaw and the eletrecity pay means like a 12 roi months and after taht we dont know soo i dont advise to much investent on mining hardware

[RD965]

well as far as i know btc mining sha256 its a bit more profitable than scrypt but the investemn on mining hardware even gaw and the eletrecity pay means like a 12 roi months and after taht we dont know soo i dont advise to much investent on mining hardware

Both algos are more or less the same profitable

[okae]

Holy shit - I didn't think we'd see that, the difficulty has been REDUCED!!!  Mining fun is returning!

not a big difference, btw i didnt know when was the last time that it happend.

Maybe this is because "small" minners turn off after discover mining BTC is not profitable anymore but who know, maybe is just like an anecdote, nothing more.

[Furio]

Holy shit - I didn't think we'd see that, the difficulty has been REDUCED!!!  Mining fun is returning!

not a big difference, btw i didnt know when was the last time that it happend.

Maybe this is because "small" minners turn off after discover mining BTC is not profitable anymore but who know, maybe is just like an anecdote, nothing more.

What I find funny, a close friend of mine was an innovator and he mined at a los from 2009 untill end 2012. After the bubble, mining bacame profitable, but it never was..... People were in it for the concept, in stead of a quick buck...

[RD965]

Holy shit - I didn't think we'd see that, the difficulty has been REDUCED!!!  Mining fun is returning!

not a big difference, btw i didnt know when was the last time that it happend.

Maybe this is because "small" minners turn off after discover mining BTC is not profitable anymore but who know, maybe is just like an anecdote, nothing more.

What I find funny, a close friend of mine was an innovator and he mined at a los from 2009 untill end 2012. After the bubble, mining bacame profitable, but it never was..... People were in it for the concept, in stead of a quick buck...

That should be the miner philosophy, im mining at a loss as well atm, profits will come, the thing is can you afford to wait? 

[Skaterdiejosh]

All miners need to shut down only need enough power to process transactions . Untill the difficulty adjust down correctly for the price of bitcoin there will be huge problems. We need like -30% adjustments or -15 or -17 % ! A drop of -.02 or even 1 % will not get us there lol ....

[tadakaluri]

This happened because small miners are close their equipment.

[ahmi]

Not much of a difference!!

[PizzaHuts]

Not much of a difference!!

its a lot if you are running a miner dude

[RD965]

Diff keeps going up, but for litecoin!

[nagatlakshmi]

But why the price is going down again?

[RD965]

But why the price is going down again?

After coinbase exchange hype

[helipotte]

Another drop.   41,272,873,895

[dsyahputera]

Will drop 5.66% to 38,937,400,776 two weeks later, estimated at BitcoinWisdom

[noobtrader]

i think hasrate will stabilize around 35000000000 

i hope 

[tvasbn]

bitfury has 40MW right now whit 0.7W/G, whit their new chips(0.2W/G) they will have 3 x current hash power, almost double the diff just them

edit: not double but a massive increase in a short time, they will only need to replace some board from they already buil DC

[RD965]

bitfury has 40MW right now whit 0.7W/G, whit their new chips(0.2W/G) they will have 3 x current hash power, almost double the diff just them

edit: not double but a massive increase in a short time, they will only need to replace some board from they already buil DC

shh dont ruin the surprise 

[noobtrader]

bitfury has 40MW right now whit 0.7W/G, whit their new chips(0.2W/G) they will have 3 x current hash power, almost double the diff just them

edit: not double but a massive increase in a short time, they will only need to replace some board from they already buil DC

shh dont ruin the surprise 

how can they profit ?

[tvasbn]

they will have costs only whit the boards, rest of the infrastructure are already build.

[noobtrader]

they will have costs only whit the boards, rest of the infrastructure are already build.

free electricity ?

[tvasbn]

at 0.03 or 0.04$/kwh, its alomost free

[DoubleTrouble]

at 0.03 or 0.04$/kwh, its alomost free

Where can I find prices like that? 
xD

[tvasbn]

buy >10MW directly from the producers and you could get those rates in many countries( WA state, Mongolia, Island, etc)

[RD965]

at 0.03 or 0.04$/kwh, its alomost free

Where can I find prices like that? 
xD

There is many countries in the world

[ahmi]

Difficulty is not reduced.... I thinks it will become more increasing in difficulty for bitcoin mining!!

[dsyahputera]

Difficulty is not reduced.... I thinks it will become more increasing in difficulty for bitcoin mining!!

Bitcoin difficulty will decreased if the global Bitcoin miner hashrate is decreased.
Now, the Bitcoin price is under $300, some cloud mining stopped their miner until the price up.
That's will affect the Bitcoin difficulty, check it out: https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty.

PS:

• I check today on BitcoinWisdom, the estimated next difficulty became 39,710,517,829
• Correct me if I wrong

[noobtrader]

buy >10MW directly from the producers and you could get those rates in many countries( WA state, Mongolia, Island, etc)

ok, if there is possible to get that cheap electricity.  they will pay 1 usd per day for 1kw ? and 1kw miner get something like 5 usd per day maybe ?  still paying worker, guard, rent ? maybe 1 usd profit per miner i guess ?  thats like total profit of 10k usd per day  for 10.000 miner ?

if thats so, how come cloud miner are shutting down ?

[tvasbn]

buy >10MW directly from the producers and you could get those rates in many countries( WA state, Mongolia, Island, etc)

ok, if there is possible to get that cheap electricity.  they will pay 1 usd per day for 1kw ? and 1kw miner get something like 5 usd per day maybe ?  still paying worker, guard, rent ? maybe 1 usd profit per miner i guess ?  thats like total profit of 10k usd per day  for 10.000 miner ?

if thats so, how come cloud miner are shutting down ?

i think that only the ones whit old and less efficient miners are closing down.
also mining farms > 10MW are few and i dont think that any of those closed.

[lightfoot]

Right now, today, a 1th miner pulling 500 watts at the meter getting electricity at 5c/kw at the bitcoin price as of 5 minutes ago starting right now and with a difficulty increase level of 5% would make a total return by Dec31 of 342.40. So if you're paying one penny above 342.40 and are optimistic that difficulty will not rise more than 5% on average and are running a system out in a desert with no building, no internet cost, no staff cost, and 5 cents a kilowatt hour electricity you can't pay more than 342.40 to make a profit of $0.00

It's that simple. Now given that most people are not paying 5 cents total per KwHR (that has to include all taxes and such of course) if you have 10 cent electricity it's $159.20.

That's that. Running 10,000 miners simply means you have more desert area to cover, a bigger power pipe, and you will still need to meet the above numbers in order to come out the same as sitting on your ass. Hire people to watch it, internet to service it, and a building to house it and the prices for the miners *have* to go down.

Oh we didn't include the cost of cooling electricity in there, did we. Double the electricity costs unless your magical mining site is in a desert in Antarctica.

That is why mining companies are not "buying new equipment". It is patently stupid. Likewise if a super breakthrough comes out (.2w/gh equipment) it will merely drive up the difficulty and the problem will be the same.

It's that simple. It has always been that simple. People who do not get this are living in a fantasy world or deluding themselves.

[Prelude]

Having access to 40MW doesn't mean they need to use it all. They could simply decomission their old hardware, and replace enough of it to stay at approximately the same speed as they were before. They would save a lot on power, and wouldn't start another arms race amongst manufacturers to maintain their piece of the pie. From there on, simply add power when necessary to keep your slice.

[tvasbn]

You know that will not happen, who have access(especially bitfury) to 40MW will use those 40MW, even on their new 0.2W/Gh miners.
For home miners the game is almost over, Guy and Valery said that already in numerous occasions.

[RD965]

You know that will not happen, who have access(especially bitfury) to 40MW will use those 40MW, even on their new 0.2W/Gh miners.
For home miners the game is almost over, Guy and Valery said that already in numerous occasions.

Im sorry what? Output price is not high at the moment, so of course that doesnt make it easy, but as soon as price rises it becomes profitable again, make your calculations

Were mining for the future here

[adaseb]

You know that will not happen, who have access(especially bitfury) to 40MW will use those 40MW, even on their new 0.2W/Gh miners.
For home miners the game is almost over, Guy and Valery said that already in numerous occasions.

Where is there a report or anything about Bitfury coming out with these 0.2W/Gh miners?

Are they keeping them from the public?

[tvasbn]

Valery said end of 2014 for their next gen, also had raise a ton of money last year for their new chips.
will add the hash power gradually, will see

[noobtrader]

You know that will not happen, who have access(especially bitfury) to 40MW will use those 40MW, even on their new 0.2W/Gh miners.
For home miners the game is almost over, Guy and Valery said that already in numerous occasions.

Where is there a report or anything about Bitfury coming out with these 0.2W/Gh miners?

Are they keeping them from the public?

what will happen if almost all hardware maker decided that it is to their best interest not to sell their hardware and mining for themself ? will we see centralization or bitcoin forked into pos coin ?

[lightfoot]

That is within their right.

[noobtrader]

That is within their right.

yes thats right...
we have support their RnD by buying all their previous equipment and then after they reach their mature product and minimal chance of improvement, they keep it all for themself...   

[lightfoot]

yes thats right...
we have support their RnD by buying all their previous equipment and then after they reach their mature product and minimal chance of improvement, they keep it all for themself...   

Well.... Yeah.

This is the other problem I have with mining these days, it started out where anyone could fire up a CPU and crank on the network. Then we all took rocket ships to the moon with video cards (crazy but cool) then FPGAs and ASICs. Now we've stalled out, and the people who built the chips now have the right design (28-20nm chips) so why should they sell them for anything less than what they can mine?

Couple that with the low prices and I don't see anyone investing in a better chip design. We may be stuck here for awhile. Summary: Bye bye distributed network, hello centralized money system.

That's kind of a problem.

[RD965]

yes thats right...
we have support their RnD by buying all their previous equipment and then after they reach their mature product and minimal chance of improvement, they keep it all for themself...   

Well.... Yeah.

This is the other problem I have with mining these days, it started out where anyone could fire up a CPU and crank on the network. Then we all took rocket ships to the moon with video cards (crazy but cool) then FPGAs and ASICs. Now we've stalled out, and the people who built the chips now have the right design (28-20nm chips) so why should they sell them for anything less than what they can mine?

Couple that with the low prices and I don't see anyone investing in a better chip design. We may be stuck here for awhile. Summary: Bye bye distributed network, hello centralized money system.

That's kind of a problem.

Man, BTC mining generates a lot of the currency and secures the network, and that needs to be monetarily absorbed by the system, as a classical offer/demand market

Better and faster chips mean cheaper and faster securing methods, allowing BTC price to grow

[lightfoot]

Man, BTC mining generates a lot of the currency and secures the network, and that needs to be monetarily absorbed by the system, as a classical offer/demand market

Better and faster chips mean cheaper and faster securing methods, allowing BTC price to grow

The currency would be generated at the same rate regardless of number of miners (>1 of course). 25 bitcoins drop every 10 minutes.

Securing the network is another story, while it's true that the higher power miners make the network harder to crack, consolidation of the pools allows someone to control a significant portion of that network making it easier to crack.

[tvasbn]

+1
also the network could work just as well and fast(for transaction confirmation) whit 5% of the current hashrate

[timk225]

Greed is good.

But someone dropping a couple MILLION to create a huge ASIC hash farm is either insane or a complete fool who cannot math.

I would venture to say that the people making these huge hash farms aren't using their money, they got some investor who doesn't know jack about Bitcoin to finance it.  So the people running the farm will take their profits and run and don't care if it ever ROIs for the investor.

[lightfoot]

But someone dropping a couple MILLION to create a huge ASIC hash farm is either insane or a complete fool who cannot math.

After watching the "Shake Shack" IPO I keep remembering Krispy Kreme and it's "stock". Yes, most people are just plain stupid.

I was thinking this morning: We might be seeing what happened to catcoin happening to Bitcoin. More specifically we've reached a difficulty point where it will go up 8%, everyone will stop mining and wait for the difficulty to go down, then pile in again. It's another form of taking advantage of others, which seems to be the hallmark for everything bitcoin but it does make sense from an individual point of view.

Time will tell.

[noobtrader]

But someone dropping a couple MILLION to create a huge ASIC hash farm is either insane or a complete fool who cannot math.

After watching the "Shake Shack" IPO I keep remembering Krispy Kreme and it's "stock". Yes, most people are just plain stupid.

I was thinking this morning: We might be seeing what happened to catcoin happening to Bitcoin. More specifically we've reached a difficulty point where it will go up 8%, everyone will stop mining and wait for the difficulty to go down, then pile in again. It's another form of taking advantage of others, which seems to be the hallmark for everything bitcoin but it does make sense from an individual point of view.

Time will tell.

i cant wait to see what happen when mining subsidy halved

[tvasbn]

BTC will double in $ value

[Bananana]

But someone dropping a couple MILLION to create a huge ASIC hash farm is either insane or a complete fool who cannot math.

After watching the "Shake Shack" IPO I keep remembering Krispy Kreme and it's "stock". Yes, most people are just plain stupid.

I was thinking this morning: We might be seeing what happened to catcoin happening to Bitcoin. More specifically we've reached a difficulty point where it will go up 8%, everyone will stop mining and wait for the difficulty to go down, then pile in again. It's another form of taking advantage of others, which seems to be the hallmark for everything bitcoin but it does make sense from an individual point of view.

Time will tell.

i cant wait to see what happen when mining subsidy halved

Everyone is waiting for that...

[noobtrader]

BTC will double in $ value

that price goto the moon or diffculty will be halved

But someone dropping a couple MILLION to create a huge ASIC hash farm is either insane or a complete fool who cannot math.

After watching the "Shake Shack" IPO I keep remembering Krispy Kreme and it's "stock". Yes, most people are just plain stupid.

I was thinking this morning: We might be seeing what happened to catcoin happening to Bitcoin. More specifically we've reached a difficulty point where it will go up 8%, everyone will stop mining and wait for the difficulty to go down, then pile in again. It's another form of taking advantage of others, which seems to be the hallmark for everything bitcoin but it does make sense from an individual point of view.

Time will tell.

i cant wait to see what happen when mining subsidy halved

Everyone is waiting for that...

indeed

[muhrohmat]

well if you expect that diff will reduce as a consequence of mining difficulty that will not happen in short notice its just a small peak its will rise again and again the diff of mining always take a part on gathering the best hardware. (maybe some alt coins do stay in diff more equal then bit coin to be mined

[truongs]

wonder how long this ridiculous hash pumping will continue specially with the horrible price of btc now

[lightfoot]

wonder how long this ridiculous hash pumping will continue specially with the horrible price of btc now

Possibly forever. Technically hash pumping (and pumping and dumping) appear to be optimal strategies to increase one's personal gain at the expense of others who do not do this.

Fascinating. Of course when everyone follows this strategy the coin collapses (like catcoin and other coins). If that is the case, then this might begin to explain why we have rules and laws around things like financial systems.

Hm. Bitcoin is an amazing little system. I need to think and watch for awhile to see the ramifications of this.

[noobtrader]

hasrate increasing again, at this price its depressing   

[DrG]

Looks like quite a few marginal miners flipping the switch on/off with difficulty changes.

[muhrohmat]

diff its always rissing there no long term for diff to go less and mining its always and investemnt that goes bam after one year i mean the hardware deprecates at the rate of 1 year to half or even worsth you need the roi calc and watts calsc to get into it and then sell the hardware after one year becuse of diff rises in sha256 and scrypt even.

[spazzdla]

diff its always rissing there no long term for diff to go less and mining its always and investemnt that goes bam after one year i mean the hardware deprecates at the rate of 1 year to half or even worsth you need the roi calc and watts calsc to get into it and then sell the hardware after one year becuse of diff rises in sha256 and scrypt even.

If there is no money coming into BTC ASIC manfactures have no money to create new ASIC's = hash rate stall.

[polarhei]

The reduction represents the fiat cost and bad management.

Only few people have the ideas using liquid well.

I am not using any vegetable oil for my rig. I wish I could use Novec(R) or spectrasyn 8(r) reasonably. Sadly I need to order at least 33 pounds which can be critical for initial.
 

[noobtrader]

Difficulty always rises... if the price still above 220 imho 

[btcminer021]

The SKY is FALLING! 

[noobtrader]

The SKY is FALLING!  

why?

estimated next difficulty
46,540,453,485 (+4.69%)

[crazyearner]

Hardly moving big numbers. Would be nice to see the diff drop to where it was back in 2012 when first lot of asics where coming online.  Mining btc now days is worthless due to power used and what it costs is not effective.

[tbearhere]

Hi can someone help please.
What does a bat file or a conf. file look like to gpu mine bitcoin with my 750ti rig to my wallet? I can't get mine working. Do you add a conf file if so what addnode and port do you use? I have bitcoin core. I have to try it just to say I mined btc directly. Hey...I may hit a block.  
ccminer.exe  -a bitcoin   -o http://localhost:9050    is what my bat file looks like. There is no conf. That ccminer is the one that does bitcoin algorithm.

Thx

[noobtrader]

Hi can someone help please.
What does a bat file or a conf. file look like to gpu mine bitcoin with my 750ti rig to my wallet? I can't get mine working. Do you add a conf file if so what addnode and port do you use? I have bitcoin core. I have to try it just to say I mined btc directly. Hey...I may hit a block.  
ccminer.exe  -a bitcoin   -o http://localhost:9050    is what my bat file looks like. There is no conf. That ccminer is the one that does bitcoin algorithm.

Thx

can you check link below...

http://cryptomining-blog.com/4327-updated-windows-binary-of-the-ccminer-1-5-39-git-fork-by-sp-for-maxwell/

or

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=167229.0

[najzenmajsen]

op , are you drunk ? its not like its been a heavy reduce.

[tbearhere]

Hi can someone help please.
What does a bat file or a conf. file look like to gpu mine bitcoin with my 750ti rig to my wallet? I can't get mine working. Do you add a conf file if so what addnode and port do you use? I have bitcoin core. I have to try it just to say I mined btc directly. Hey...I may hit a block.  
ccminer.exe  -a bitcoin   -o http://localhost:9050    is what my bat file looks like. There is no conf. That ccminer is the one that does bitcoin algorithm.

Thx

can you check link below...

http://cryptomining-blog.com/4327-updated-windows-binary-of-the-ccminer-1-5-39-git-fork-by-sp-for-maxwell/

or

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=167229.0

Thx ...but I need info on how to send my gpu hash to my bitcoin core wallet. I have the bat file ( sorry ). I really need to know if it will work if I make up a conf. file and put it in my roaming bitcoin folder. And what port to use and addnodes if so.  I have been mining othet coins to there wallets but I can't get my bitcoin hash to my wallet.   Thx

[najzenmajsen]

Hardly moving big numbers. Would be nice to see the diff drop to where it was back in 2012 when first lot of asics where coming online.  Mining btc now days is worthless due to power used and what it costs is not effective.

its not useless if you have free electricity : >

[noobtrader]

Hi can someone help please.
What does a bat file or a conf. file look like to gpu mine bitcoin with my 750ti rig to my wallet? I can't get mine working. Do you add a conf file if so what addnode and port do you use? I have bitcoin core. I have to try it just to say I mined btc directly. Hey...I may hit a block.  
ccminer.exe  -a bitcoin   -o http://localhost:9050    is what my bat file looks like. There is no conf. That ccminer is the one that does bitcoin algorithm.

Thx

can you check link below...

http://cryptomining-blog.com/4327-updated-windows-binary-of-the-ccminer-1-5-39-git-fork-by-sp-for-maxwell/

or

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=167229.0

Thx ...but I need info on how to send my gpu hash to my bitcoin core wallet. I have the bat file ( sorry ). I really need to know if it will work if I make up a conf. file and put it in my roaming bitcoin folder. And what port to use and addnodes if so.  I have been mining othet coins to there wallets but I can't get my bitcoin hash to my wallet.   Thx

isnt it should be something like this ?
ccminer.exe -a bitcoin -o stratum+tcp://pooladdress:xxx -u WALLET -p x

WALLET is your wallet address
imho you dont need conf files if you write all the required variable.  conf file only keep them so you dont have to type them everytime

[tbearhere]

Hi can someone help please.
What does a bat file or a conf. file look like to gpu mine bitcoin with my 750ti rig to my wallet? I can't get mine working. Do you add a conf file if so what addnode and port do you use? I have bitcoin core. I have to try it just to say I mined btc directly. Hey...I may hit a block.  
ccminer.exe  -a bitcoin   -o http://localhost:9050    is what my bat file looks like. There is no conf. That ccminer is the one that does bitcoin algorithm.

Thx

can you check link below...

http://cryptomining-blog.com/4327-updated-windows-binary-of-the-ccminer-1-5-39-git-fork-by-sp-for-maxwell/

or

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=167229.0

Thx ...but I need info on how to send my gpu hash to my bitcoin core wallet. I have the bat file ( sorry ). I really need to know if it will work if I make up a conf. file and put it in my roaming bitcoin folder. And what port to use and addnodes if so.  I have been mining other coins to there wallets but I can't get my bitcoin hash to my wallet.   Thx

isnt it should be something like this ?
ccminer.exe -a bitcoin -o stratum+tcp://pooladdress:xxx -u WALLET -p x

WALLET is your wallet address
imho you dont need conf files if you write all the required variable.  conf file only keep them so you dont have to type them everytime

No ..but thx  I have been mining other coins to there wallets but I can't get my bitcoin hash to my wallet. I need to know if I can use a conf on a core wallet and if so the main question is what port #.

[RD965]

The SKY is FALLING! 

Were going up soon, things are going well, much better than expected

[abyrnes81]

The SKY is FALLING! 

Were going up soon, things are going well, much better than expected

Bitcoin will win, don't worry guys. The bitcoin ecosystem will succeed against the actual economy.

[RD965]

The SKY is FALLING! 

Were going up soon, things are going well, much better than expected

Bitcoin will win, don't worry guys. The bitcoin ecosystem will succeed against the actual economy.

Every day theres more reasons for that 

[KaChingCoinDev]

Never lasts long. It will never be a home mining coin again.

[randy8777]

difficulty is near a record hight but the price certainly isn't. people would expect the price to reflect the higher difficulty.

[Bananana]

difficulty is near a record hight but the price certainly isn't. people would expect the price to reflect the higher difficulty.

I was surprised that the price didn't went up after higher difficulty, its harder to get 1 bitcoin now should reflect the price.

[DrG]

difficulty is near a record hight but the price certainly isn't. people would expect the price to reflect the higher difficulty.

I was surprised that the price didn't went up after higher difficulty, its harder to get 1 bitcoin now should reflect the price.

The unscrupulous mining companies that dominate the scene have no interest in BTC for the most part - they're looking for short term profit and dumping BTC as it's mined - hence no pent up demand.

[RD965]

difficulty is near a record hight but the price certainly isn't. people would expect the price to reflect the higher difficulty.

I was surprised that the price didn't went up after higher difficulty, its harder to get 1 bitcoin now should reflect the price.

The unscrupulous mining companies that dominate the scene have no interest in BTC for the most part - they're looking for short term profit and dumping BTC as it's mined - hence no pent up demand.

So what everybody is looking to survive here, nothing new

[picolo]

difficulty is near a record hight but the price certainly isn't. people would expect the price to reflect the higher difficulty.

I was surprised that the price didn't went up after higher difficulty, its harder to get 1 bitcoin now should reflect the price.

The unscrupulous mining companies that dominate the scene have no interest in BTC for the most part - they're looking for short term profit and dumping BTC as it's mined - hence no pent up demand.

So what everybody is looking to survive here, nothing new

+5% last activity change and could be an other +5% in 10 days.

[RD965]

difficulty is near a record hight but the price certainly isn't. people would expect the price to reflect the higher difficulty.

I was surprised that the price didn't went up after higher difficulty, its harder to get 1 bitcoin now should reflect the price.

The unscrupulous mining companies that dominate the scene have no interest in BTC for the most part - they're looking for short term profit and dumping BTC as it's mined - hence no pent up demand.

So what everybody is looking to survive here, nothing new

+5% last activity change and could be an other +5% in 10 days.

So something big is coming guys 

[Glucose]

difficulty is near a record hight but the price certainly isn't. people would expect the price to reflect the higher difficulty.

I was surprised that the price didn't went up after higher difficulty, its harder to get 1 bitcoin now should reflect the price.

The unscrupulous mining companies that dominate the scene have no interest in BTC for the most part - they're looking for short term profit and dumping BTC as it's mined - hence no pent up demand.

So what everybody is looking to survive here, nothing new

+5% last activity change and could be an other +5% in 10 days.

Yeah, not sure I'm really happy with that. I hope price will go up soon ...

[noobtrader]

why difficulty keep getting higher despite that many miner bankrupt ?

http://www.coindesk.com/mining-asics-technologies-bankrupt/
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-miner-aquifer-files-for-chapter-11-bankruptcy/

[SargeR33]

why difficulty keep getting higher despite that many miner bankrupt ?

http://www.coindesk.com/mining-asics-technologies-bankrupt/
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-miner-aquifer-files-for-chapter-11-bankruptcy/

Some people are lucky to have cheap/capped price electricity while others steal it.

[crazyearner]

why difficulty keep getting higher despite that many miner bankrupt ?

http://www.coindesk.com/mining-asics-technologies-bankrupt/
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-miner-aquifer-files-for-chapter-11-bankruptcy/

Because it will never go down that's how BTC works more out in the world diff will continue to go up. If it takes a much longer time to generate than last time then it will go down in diff but not for long and BTC mining days are over now given the fact 1 energy 2 equipment 3 prices no wodner the guys gone bankrupt due to many factors it was good mining back in 2011 when/1012 and a little into 2013 but soon into 2014 too mcuh power coming onine raping the heck out of it with corporate company's taking it on and scooping up thousands of coins and then running away.

[noobtrader]

why difficulty keep getting higher despite that many miner bankrupt ?

http://www.coindesk.com/mining-asics-technologies-bankrupt/
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-miner-aquifer-files-for-chapter-11-bankruptcy/

Some people are lucky to have cheap/capped price electricity while others steal it.

the amount of electricity is capped imho especially the stolen ones

why difficulty keep getting higher despite that many miner bankrupt ?

http://www.coindesk.com/mining-asics-technologies-bankrupt/
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-miner-aquifer-files-for-chapter-11-bankruptcy/

Because it will never go down that's how BTC works more out in the world diff will continue to go up. If it takes a much longer time to generate than last time then it will go down in diff but not for long and BTC mining days are over now given the fact 1 energy 2 equipment 3 prices no wodner the guys gone bankrupt due to many factors it was good mining back in 2011 when/1012 and a little into 2013 but soon into 2014 too mcuh power coming onine raping the heck out of it with corporate company's taking it on and scooping up thousands of coins and then running away.

but the fact that hashrate keep going up (Hashrate:   342,683,408 GH/s), its ATH atm. with the fact that 1. capped energy, 2. capped hashrate/equipment, 3. bitcoin price  at least hashrate should stay lower, not breaking ath all the time

[SargeR33]

why difficulty keep getting higher despite that many miner bankrupt ?

http://www.coindesk.com/mining-asics-technologies-bankrupt/
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-miner-aquifer-files-for-chapter-11-bankruptcy/

Some people are lucky to have cheap/capped price electricity while others steal it.

the amount of electricity is capped imho especially the stolen ones

why difficulty keep getting higher despite that many miner bankrupt ?

http://www.coindesk.com/mining-asics-technologies-bankrupt/
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-miner-aquifer-files-for-chapter-11-bankruptcy/

Because it will never go down that's how BTC works more out in the world diff will continue to go up. If it takes a much longer time to generate than last time then it will go down in diff but not for long and BTC mining days are over now given the fact 1 energy 2 equipment 3 prices no wodner the guys gone bankrupt due to many factors it was good mining back in 2011 when/1012 and a little into 2013 but soon into 2014 too mcuh power coming onine raping the heck out of it with corporate company's taking it on and scooping up thousands of coins and then running away.

but the fact that hashrate keep going up (Hashrate:   342,683,408 GH/s), its ATH atm. with the fact that 1. capped energy, 2. capped hashrate/equipment, 3. bitcoin price  at least hashrate should stay lower, not breaking ath all the time

Exactly I agree with this. There is no logical reasoning. If you pay for power, it cannot be profitable anymore to mine bitcoin. How can people invest big money into huge rigs and still profit, especially when the return is so small. Can we expect at the next halving hashrate and difficulty will rise further or will there be a steep drop? Unless power is halved and halved again in terms of price and miners get cheaper, there is no way I could afford to mine for half of what I am now.

People are calling Bitcoin mining a gold rush. The rush eventually ends and people move on to other precious metals(opals, diamond, etc). The same will happen with Bitcoin. If the technology for cryptocurrency expands and becomes the norm, people will adopt other coins and difficulty/value will be much more realistic than what it is now.

[Troonetpt]

the difficulty continue to rising.

[noobtrader]

we should wonder where the electricity comes from ?

[RD965]

we should wonder where the electricity comes from ?

What do you mean? Eveyone pays its electricity!

[-ck]

difficulty is near a record hight but the price certainly isn't. people would expect the price to reflect the higher difficulty.

I was surprised that the price didn't went up after higher difficulty, its harder to get 1 bitcoin now should reflect the price.

That's because you expect things to work the opposite of how they do. Price has always been driven by the bitcoin economy, not mining. I know it's hard for miners to get their head around since they think bitcoin is about mining but price affects the amount of mining, but the amount of mining does not affect price.

Bitcoin is not about mining. This is why alternate currencies created purely because of some "mining mechanism advantage" have no real advantage over bitcoin because the value is determined by the economy surrounding it and the mechanism mining is done doesn't really matter - so long as there's enough of it for the system to be secure. While miners indirectly affect the price, they do so by their use of bitcoin itself; it is not the generation of the bitcoin which has any effect on price.

[noobtrader]

difficulty is near a record hight but the price certainly isn't. people would expect the price to reflect the higher difficulty.

I was surprised that the price didn't went up after higher difficulty, its harder to get 1 bitcoin now should reflect the price.

That's because you expect things to work the opposite of how they do. Price has always been driven by the bitcoin economy, not mining. I know it's hard for miners to get their head around since they think bitcoin is about mining but price affects the amount of mining, but the amount of mining does not affect price.

Bitcoin is not about mining. This is why alternate currencies created purely because of some "mining mechanism advantage" have no real advantage over bitcoin because the value is determined by the economy surrounding it and the mechanism mining is done doesn't really matter - so long as there's enough of it for the system to be secure. While miners indirectly affect the price, they do so by their use of bitcoin itself; it is not the generation of the bitcoin which has any effect on price.

well... miner always too late, they buy in january  and expect to profit in december, guess what price plunges. so they might get little profit in btc (if they buy with btc) but not in USD. 

we should wonder where the electricity comes from ?

What do you mean? Eveyone pays its electricity!

thanks funny  
but thats not the answer that im looking for...  

[baristor]

price has gone up abit but not substantially enough to sustain the difficulty  gains... but no 1 can predict what will happen next thats the exciting part of bitcoin, everyone just speculation, proof plz !

[RD965]

price has gone up abit but not substantially enough to sustain the difficulty  gains... but no 1 can predict what will happen next thats the exciting part of bitcoin, everyone just speculation, proof plz !

As ckolinvas said, and who else is better to say it, mining diff is always scheduled to go up, but that wont mean that price will go up too

Mining is a reward system that Satoshi created, as an incentive to maintain the network, but doesnt relate to price

[noobtrader]

i just hope that difficulty will stay below 50.000.000.000 till next year. but maybe i ask too much ?

[RD965]

i just hope that difficulty will stay below 50.000.000.000 till next year. but maybe i ask too much ?

Its not about asking, its about a big race    Never slows down

[crazyearner]

i just hope that difficulty will stay below 50.000.000.000 till next year. but maybe i ask too much ?

Its not about asking, its about a big race    Never slows down

indeed it will never slow maybe some point when diff gets to a point that putting more power on wont budge it and its getting  to that point already. I remember first starting out with avalon aiscs making 2 to 3 btc per day with only 90GH them days are well over. Now you need like 80 to 100TH for making 1 BTC per day and much power is needed for that and right now its not cost effective. Everyone might as well turn their rigs off unles free energy.

[RD965]

i just hope that difficulty will stay below 50.000.000.000 till next year. but maybe i ask too much ?

Its not about asking, its about a big race    Never slows down

indeed it will never slow maybe some point when diff gets to a point that putting more power on wont budge it and its getting  to that point already. I remember first starting out with avalon aiscs making 2 to 3 btc per day with only 90GH them days are well over. Now you need like 80 to 100TH for making 1 BTC per day and much power is needed for that and right now its not cost effective. Everyone might as well turn their rigs off unles free energy.

Agree but the point is, mining is an incentive to earn money, and the market is full of devices and options (profitable atm or not)

Profitability depends on the price, most are mining at a loss, some are profiting, as for every business

As new asics come and the chips have a better hashrate/power consumption ratio the market will evolve to catch up, and the game goes on

[noobtrader]

i just hope that difficulty will stay below 50.000.000.000 till next year. but maybe i ask too much ?

Its not about asking, its about a big race    Never slows down

indeed it will never slow maybe some point when diff gets to a point that putting more power on wont budge it and its getting  to that point already. I remember first starting out with avalon aiscs making 2 to 3 btc per day with only 90GH them days are well over. Now you need like 80 to 100TH for making 1 BTC per day and much power is needed for that and right now its not cost effective. Everyone might as well turn their rigs off unles free energy.

Agree but the point is, mining is an incentive to earn money, and the market is full of devices and options (profitable atm or not)

Profitability depends on the price, most are mining at a loss, some are profiting, as for every business

As new asics come and the chips have a better hashrate/power consumption ratio the market will evolve to catch up, and the game goes on

lets hope that asic maker  play fair and let us buy miner comparable to their newest miner.

[RD965]

i just hope that difficulty will stay below 50.000.000.000 till next year. but maybe i ask too much ?

Its not about asking, its about a big race    Never slows down

indeed it will never slow maybe some point when diff gets to a point that putting more power on wont budge it and its getting  to that point already. I remember first starting out with avalon aiscs making 2 to 3 btc per day with only 90GH them days are well over. Now you need like 80 to 100TH for making 1 BTC per day and much power is needed for that and right now its not cost effective. Everyone might as well turn their rigs off unles free energy.

Agree but the point is, mining is an incentive to earn money, and the market is full of devices and options (profitable atm or not)

Profitability depends on the price, most are mining at a loss, some are profiting, as for every business

As new asics come and the chips have a better hashrate/power consumption ratio the market will evolve to catch up, and the game goes on

lets hope that asic maker  play fair and let us buy miner comparable to their newest miner.

Thats the thing this is a business

You just need a bit of perspective, use it!

If you where them, would you? Or would you mine first and then sell them once youre on the track of a new one? Because thats how it works

[coinpr0n]

I sorta saw that coming as the growth was crazy and the profit was becoming less all the time. The adjusting difficulty is a great system.

[RD965]

I sorta saw that coming as the growth was crazy and the profit was becoming less all the time. The adjusting difficulty is a great system.

It really is, but sometimes is not very profitable 

Just competitive advantage for the big guys

[noobtrader]

i wonder what will happen after next halving...

last halving was offset by asic, if i remember right...

[crazyearner]

i wonder what will happen after next halving...

last halving was offset by asic, if i remember right...

Not much other than the rewards being 50% of what it is now and maybe see some price increase but again it is ahrd to say depending on demands and how much demand their is for it. Right now it seems theirs not much demands as many company are taking it on but soon remove it due to them not seeing any results with it and not giving it enough time to develop and have people using it as a customer. Lots of business have took it n but it needs more people to  use it before we all see some serious price increases and it stick to that price and not have bubbles like we did back in dec 2013

[noobtrader]

i wonder what will happen after next halving...

last halving was offset by asic, if i remember right...

Not much other than the rewards being 50% of what it is now and maybe see some price increase but again it is ahrd to say depending on demands and how much demand their is for it. Right now it seems theirs not much demands as many company are taking it on but soon remove it due to them not seeing any results with it and not giving it enough time to develop and have people using it as a customer. Lots of business have took it n but it needs more people to  use it before we all see some serious price increases and it stick to that price and not have bubbles like we did back in dec 2013

exactly, if reward were just 50% of todays and price stay at 300 range, i think alot of miner will go offline and hashrate will drop, in the past this was prevented because asic entering the market. it was sooo profitable that lead to hashrate bubble.

[Amph]

i wonder what will happen after next halving...

last halving was offset by asic, if i remember right...

the price must rise to compensate, otherwise there is a problem, surely miner will shutdown if the price won't rise as they would get 50% less income

[RD965]

i wonder what will happen after next halving...

last halving was offset by asic, if i remember right...

the price must rise to compensate, otherwise there is a problem, surely miner will shutdown if the price won't rise as they would get 50% less income

Exactly, normally mining doesn't affect the price, but halving always have a positive effect (offer/demand theory)

[abyrnes81]

I do not think it is more profitable the bitcoin mining, only if you don't pay the electricity (or pay less) and have the hardware machines at a good price.

[RD965]

I do not think it is more profitable the bitcoin mining, only if you don't pay the electricity (or pay less) and have the hardware machines at a good price.

More profitable than what? Litecoin mining?

[abyrnes81]

I do not think it is more profitable the bitcoin mining, only if you don't pay the electricity (or pay less) and have the hardware machines at a good price.

More profitable than what? Litecoin mining?

It isn't more profitable , all the CryptoCurrency mining "only if you don't pay the electricity (or pay less) and have the hardware machines at a good price."

[RD965]

I do not think it is more profitable the bitcoin mining, only if you don't pay the electricity (or pay less) and have the hardware machines at a good price.

More profitable than what? Litecoin mining?

It isn't more profitable , all the CryptoCurrency mining "only if you don't pay the electricity (or pay less) and have the hardware machines at a good price."

Were talking algos here, more than just coins

Scrypt has a better choice, and with a good plan you can be extra profitable

[abyrnes81]

I do not think it is more profitable the bitcoin mining, only if you don't pay the electricity (or pay less) and have the hardware machines at a good price.

More profitable than what? Litecoin mining?

It isn't more profitable , all the CryptoCurrency mining "only if you don't pay the electricity (or pay less) and have the hardware machines at a good price."

Were talking algos here, more than just coins

Scrypt has a better choice, and with a good plan you can be extra profitable

Yeah you are right, the sha-256 mining is almost died. The most profitable at the moment (if you always have free electricity and hardware machines at good price) is the scrypt mining for sure.

However news for some new machine "sha-256 & scrypt" ? or nothing ?

[RD965]

I do not think it is more profitable the bitcoin mining, only if you don't pay the electricity (or pay less) and have the hardware machines at a good price.

More profitable than what? Litecoin mining?

It isn't more profitable , all the CryptoCurrency mining "only if you don't pay the electricity (or pay less) and have the hardware machines at a good price."

Were talking algos here, more than just coins

Scrypt has a better choice, and with a good plan you can be extra profitable

Yeah you are right, the sha-256 mining is almost died. The most profitable at the moment (if you always have free electricity and hardware machines at good price) is the scrypt mining for sure.

However news for some new machine "sha-256 & scrypt" ? or nothing ?

Even gpu mining coud still be profitable if you managed well (im one of those heros lol)

[abyrnes81]

I do not think it is more profitable the bitcoin mining, only if you don't pay the electricity (or pay less) and have the hardware machines at a good price.

More profitable than what? Litecoin mining?

It isn't more profitable , all the CryptoCurrency mining "only if you don't pay the electricity (or pay less) and have the hardware machines at a good price."

Were talking algos here, more than just coins

Scrypt has a better choice, and with a good plan you can be extra profitable

Yeah you are right, the sha-256 mining is almost died. The most profitable at the moment (if you always have free electricity and hardware machines at good price) is the scrypt mining for sure.

However news for some new machine "sha-256 & scrypt" ? or nothing ?

Even gpu mining coud still be profitable if you managed well (im one of those heros lol)

Are you talking about the "instamining" of an altcoin after its release ? I think this is only the way for "gain" some bitcoin from GPU mining.

[RD965]

I do not think it is more profitable the bitcoin mining, only if you don't pay the electricity (or pay less) and have the hardware machines at a good price.

More profitable than what? Litecoin mining?

It isn't more profitable , all the CryptoCurrency mining "only if you don't pay the electricity (or pay less) and have the hardware machines at a good price."

Were talking algos here, more than just coins

Scrypt has a better choice, and with a good plan you can be extra profitable

Yeah you are right, the sha-256 mining is almost died. The most profitable at the moment (if you always have free electricity and hardware machines at good price) is the scrypt mining for sure.

However news for some new machine "sha-256 & scrypt" ? or nothing ?

Even gpu mining coud still be profitable if you managed well (im one of those heros lol)

Are you talking about the "instamining" of an altcoin after its release ? I think this is only the way for "gain" some bitcoin from GPU mining.

Instamining is always impossible, I hardly ever got big returns on that

They key is watch the markets and the liquidity of the coin in some moments, as it was a stock

Aint easy dude

[Hazir]

So I have a question for miners. Was this reduction of mining difficulty really significant? Because after almost 3 months I did not see any changes in trade market. So I think that change was just cosmetic. And I also think recent bitcoin rise was not caused by this at all.

[RD965]

So I have a question for miners. Was this reduction of mining difficulty really significant? Because after almost 3 months I did not see any changes in trade market. So I think that change was just cosmetic. And I also think recent bitcoin rise was not caused by this at all.

Ask it yourself

If youre running a business and suddenly you can produce 10% extra for free, wouldn it be allright?

Also use more points of view. If the diff rises, your profits go down by the percentaje it goes up!

[noobtrader]

So I have a question for miners. Was this reduction of mining difficulty really significant? Because after almost 3 months I did not see any changes in trade market. So I think that change was just cosmetic. And I also think recent bitcoin rise was not caused by this at all.

Ask it yourself

If youre running a business and suddenly you can produce 10% extra for free, wouldn it be allright?

Also use more points of view. If the diff rises, your profits go down by the percentaje it goes up!

what matter for miner is the price of btc, i dont mind mining and get 50% less reward if the price of btc tripled. the problem is that halving does not affect price.

[picolo]

The next difficulty change could be neither up or down :

Bitcoin Difficulty:   46,684,376,317
Estimated Next Difficulty:   47,278,363,227 (+1.27%)
Adjust time:   After 158 Blocks, About 1.1 days

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty

[Walt Sobchak]

If you're an average miner and not overflowing with cash, the difficulty reduction meant nothing for you.

[Mousepotato]

And I thought being stuck at 1.2M difficulty was bad. Yikes!

[picolo]

If you're an average miner and not overflowing with cash, the difficulty reduction meant nothing for you.

If you were making 0.2/week and you now make 0.22 instead of 0.18 for several weeks, it is very nice and can double your profits after maintenance costs.

[kuusj98]

If you're an average miner and not overflowing with cash, the difficulty reduction meant nothing for you.

If you were making 0.2/week and you now make 0.22 instead of 0.18 for several weeks, it is very nice and can double your profits after maintenance costs.

Mining has absolutely no point in doing. Especially not Cloud mining, you will 99/100 times lose money and if you make fat stacks 12,5% ROI per week *COUGH* LTC-Gear *COUGH* it will most likely be a scam.
Anyway, getting 0.22 per week instead of 0.18 is sure as hell nice. But what if the prices drop even more?

[RD965]

If you're an average miner and not overflowing with cash, the difficulty reduction meant nothing for you.

If you were making 0.2/week and you now make 0.22 instead of 0.18 for several weeks, it is very nice and can double your profits after maintenance costs.

Mining has absolutely no point in doing. Especially not Cloud mining, you will 99/100 times lose money and if you make fat stacks 12,5% ROI per week *COUGH* LTC-Gear *COUGH* it will most likely be a scam.
Anyway, getting 0.22 per week instead of 0.18 is sure as hell nice. But what if the prices drop even more?

Some people can afford to mine at a loss, and that makes it a profitable business

[alani123]

If you're an average miner and not overflowing with cash, the difficulty reduction meant nothing for you.

If you were making 0.2/week and you now make 0.22 instead of 0.18 for several weeks, it is very nice and can double your profits after maintenance costs.

Mining has absolutely no point in doing. Especially not Cloud mining, you will 99/100 times lose money and if you make fat stacks 12,5% ROI per week *COUGH* LTC-Gear *COUGH* it will most likely be a scam.
Anyway, getting 0.22 per week instead of 0.18 is sure as hell nice. But what if the prices drop even more?

Some people can afford to mine at a loss, and that makes it a profitable business

This doesn't make it a profitable business, this is what's making competitive business. The home miner game is still alive, people know that renting mine power from a service like hashnest could cost them less than maintaining their own, yet they trust their own hardware more.

I personally know people that mine at home 24/7 with not more than a single Th/s. They know that electricity might be costing them more but are betting on a price increase.

[ezeminer]

--snip
Many quotes
--snip

Some people can afford to mine at a loss, and that makes it a profitable business

This doesn't make it a profitable business, this is what's making competitive business. The home miner game is still alive, people know that renting mine power from a service like hashnest could cost them less than maintaining their own, yet they trust their own hardware more.

I personally know people that mine at home 24/7 with not more than a single Th/s. They know that electricity might be costing them more but are betting on a price increase.

I will admit that I do this, I like my two s3's supporting the network, even if my electricity cost and mining profits almost zero out each other. I never will ROI, unless I sell my gear. But I enjoy making some coin here and there. And I can always diagnose my problems on the spot incase something happens.

[brutalick]

Hi,

Do you think that investing in hardware now would make sense?

I am interested in mining but have no experience.

[ChuckBuck]

Hi,

Do you think that investing in hardware now would make sense?

I am interested in mining but have no experience.

Sense?  Only if you have free unlimited solar power, free cooling from the Antartic winds, and a warehouse or co-lo center passed on to you by inheritance somehow:

[Mikestang]

Some people can afford to mine at a loss, and that makes it a profitable business

Uh, what?  It's not "at a loss" if is is "a profitable business", you have to pick one.

I mine for hobby, I mine at a loss, I want to see the difficulty go down down down!

[ezeminer]

Some people can afford to mine at a loss, and that makes it a profitable business

Uh, what?  It's not "at a loss" if is is "a profitable business", you have to pick one.

I mine for hobby, I mine at a loss, I want to see the difficulty go down down down!

I think he means at the time it is at a loss because the coins mined would equal less than the electricity bill.
But he also means it is profitable if the BTC price jumps up, like january to march lows of $180 to highs of almost $300

[lightfoot]

Maybe, but why not just buy coin on the market? Note I think this is why difficulty has been so stuck as of late, the 10nm technology just doesn't seem to be appearing.

[ezeminer]

Maybe, but why not just buy coin on the market? Note I think this is why difficulty has been so stuck as of late, the 10nm technology just doesn't seem to be appearing.

we haven't even broken 20nm publicly, maybe knc, or someone did it privately but...

[noobtrader]

with halving issue next year and btc price, i doubt anyone even consider developing 20nm atm unless they have a plan to mine it all for themself and dump all teh coin...

[Amph]

Hi,

Do you think that investing in hardware now would make sense?

I am interested in mining but have no experience.

better not, it would make sense only if the price would rise so fast that the dif won't keep up with it, this will create a "profitability window"

[Furio]

Hi,

Do you think that investing in hardware now would make sense?

I am interested in mining but have no experience.

better not, it would make sense only if the price would rise so fast that the dif won't keep up with it, this will create a "profitability window"

Only if you don't pay electricity Turkmenistan citizins have free electricit, let's all emigrate

[emdje]

Hi,

Do you think that investing in hardware now would make sense?

I am interested in mining but have no experience.

better not, it would make sense only if the price would rise so fast that the dif won't keep up with it, this will create a "profitability window"

Only if you don't pay electricity Turkmenistan citizins have free electricit, let's all emigrate

Not anymore 
http://centralasiaonline.com/en_GB/articles/caii/features/main/2013/10/31/feature-01

[Minerjoe]

How sustainable this growth is guys? I mean getting 10% per month, having in mind this base s not an easy thing to do.

[noobtrader]

hashrate rises again 

wow, how high can you go

[Minerjoe]

hashrate rises again 

wow, how high can you go

No limit here. Remember those 40% per month diff growth rates we used to have before.

[lightfoot]

hashrate rises again 

wow, how high can you go

No limit here. Remember those 40% per month diff growth rates we used to have before.

Agreed, but where is the new equipment coming from and how can it run? Right now the power/hash threshold is pretty well balance so either:

a) Someone is exceptionally stupid and mining at a loss
b) Someone turned on a pile of built current generation equipment
c) Someone built a new and more efficient technology.

I doubt c, not sure about b, which leaves a.

[lightfoot]

Ok, this makes no sense. Apparently someone added 40ph to the mining network in a space of about a day.

If that was Spoondles things, that's 25,000 of them. 50,000 800gh Monarchs.

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[noobtrader]

Ok, this makes no sense. Apparently someone added 40ph to the mining network in a space of about a day.

If that was Spoondles things, that's 25,000 of them. 50,000 800gh Monarchs.

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

im more interested in how much electricity needed to run those 40ph ?
were banker started mining bitcoin now ? 

[lightfoot]

Ok, this makes no sense. Apparently someone added 40ph to the mining network in a space of about a day.

If that was Spoondles things, that's 25,000 of them. 50,000 800gh Monarchs.

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

im more interested in how much electricity needed to run those 40ph ?
were banker started mining bitcoin now ? 

Simple. Assume half a watt per gh, 800gh=400 watts. Multiply by 50,000 and you have 20,000Kw. Or 20MW of power.

Hm.

[Saw]

maybe its just an accumulation of many people turning their hardware back to BTC mining due to the drop in difficulty?
 

[noobtrader]

Ok, this makes no sense. Apparently someone added 40ph to the mining network in a space of about a day.

If that was Spoondles things, that's 25,000 of them. 50,000 800gh Monarchs.

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

im more interested in how much electricity needed to run those 40ph ?
were banker started mining bitcoin now ?  

Simple. Assume half a watt per gh, 800gh=400 watts. Multiply by 50,000 and you have 20,000Kw. Or 20MW of power.

Hm.

wow...
thats like 1 small power plant  output, isnt  ?

http://cleantechnica.com/2012/09/11/20mw-solar-power-plant-for-canberra-will-be-australias-largest/

EDIT:  and if you think about it, total hashpower (which about 400ph) will need like 200MW ? wow 

[lightfoot]

Well, yeah. Someone check my numbers, maybe it's a luck spike, but usually they are not that high. On a more serious point of view though, that would also require 40,000 1,000 watt power supplies to provide 12 volts for the miners. Who just delivered an order like that?

How the fuck does that much power appear? Seriously?

As for overall, remember .5w/gh is the best equipment out today. I'm sure people are mining with crap hardware somewhere, so double your number. Which equates to most of the power of Three Mile Island. Not too much, but there....

[noobtrader]

Well, yeah. Someone check my numbers, maybe it's a luck spike, but usually they are not that high. On a more serious point of view though, that would also require 40,000 1,000 watt power supplies to provide 12 volts for the miners. Who just delivered an order like that?

How the fuck does that much power appear? Seriously?

As for overall, remember .5w/gh is the best equipment out today. I'm sure people are mining with crap hardware somewhere, so double your number. Which equates to most of the power of Three Mile Island. Not too much, but there....

PSU, cable and electronic, i guess they were made in China, Taiwan, Thailand or Malay.  
im more concerned about the time when all mining subsidy stopped and price still in the 300 range. btw i myself planning to upgrade when subsidy halved and price of miner drop. usually ppl panic sell to cover their investment at that time, and maybe buy more btc too if it drop in price.

the fact is no one stabilize the btc price which miner should have done. this can only happen if btc somehow converted into half POS-half POW coin  like ppc, or creating masternode like drk-dash coin.
in short ppl were given reward for buying and keeping coin (creating full node) too.

[confirmation120]

Holy shit - I didn't think we'd see that, the difficulty has been REDUCED!!!  Mining fun is returning!

And how it is decreasing can you explain in detail

[lightfoot]

PSU, cable and electronic, i guess they were made in China, Taiwan, Thailand or Malay.  
im more concerned about the time when all mining subsidy stopped and price still in the 300 range. btw i myself planning to upgrade when subsidy halved and price of miner drop. usually ppl panic sell to cover their investment at that time, and maybe buy more btc too if it drop in price.

If crap quality power supplies then there should be more data center fires. We'll see. However you're right, I totally forgot about the halving, with that why the fuck would anyone develop a next generation chip at this point. No one would buy it because ROI would nail them with the drop.

Weird. Maybe people are just not rational.

[noobtrader]

PSU, cable and electronic, i guess they were made in China, Taiwan, Thailand or Malay.  
im more concerned about the time when all mining subsidy stopped and price still in the 300 range. btw i myself planning to upgrade when subsidy halved and price of miner drop. usually ppl panic sell to cover their investment at that time, and maybe buy more btc too if it drop in price.

If crap quality power supplies then there should be more data center fires. We'll see. However you're right, I totally forgot about the halving, with that why the fuck would anyone develop a next generation chip at this point. No one would buy it because ROI would nail them with the drop.

Weird. Maybe people are just not rational.

not crazy, more likely uniformed, i mean just the other day i ask about new miner 1.5 T, 600W and cost me like 650usd before shipment and handling and custom etc. about 2.5 or even 3 btc right ? and just to ROI i need to mining for 6 month minimum.

why bother if i can buy btc today 2.5 btc and i dont need to wait 6 month ? dont need to pay shipment etc, dont need mining risk.
and we still can get more within 6 month too by  put it in bitfinex , or buy darkcoin and make masternode, or trading. this has certain risk. but smaller risk than buying miner imo.

[lightfoot]

Ok, so the white line is showing mining speed back to normal. Which either means someone turned off 20mw of mining power or I am chasing a luck dragon through the stats. If the latter, difficulty should rise a bit and fall a bit over the next month.

That makes a bit more sense than the whole "someone turned on a whole metric-ton of systems"

[noobtrader]

we will see that...
or maybe some testing of new asic miner ?

[stonerider]

PSU, cable and electronic, i guess they were made in China, Taiwan, Thailand or Malay.  
im more concerned about the time when all mining subsidy stopped and price still in the 300 range. btw i myself planning to upgrade when subsidy halved and price of miner drop. usually ppl panic sell to cover their investment at that time, and maybe buy more btc too if it drop in price.

If crap quality power supplies then there should be more data center fires. We'll see. However you're right, I totally forgot about the halving, with that why the fuck would anyone develop a next generation chip at this point. No one would buy it because ROI would nail them with the drop.

Weird. Maybe people are just not rational.

not crazy, more likely uniformed, i mean just the other day i ask about new miner 1.5 T, 600W and cost me like 650usd before shipment and handling and custom etc. about 2.5 or even 3 btc right ? and just to ROI i need to mining for 6 month minimum.

why bother if i can buy btc today 2.5 btc and i dont need to wait 6 month ? dont need to pay shipment etc, dont need mining risk.
and we still can get more within 6 month too by  put it in bitfinex , or buy darkcoin and make masternode, or trading. this has certain risk. but smaller risk than buying miner imo.

Most people are just plain stupid. They think they can just buy a bunch of miners and start printing money. Being uninformed is equal to being ignorant, ergo dumb and stupid.

[lightfoot]

we will see that...
or maybe some testing of new asic miner ?

Maybe, but even if it was .25w/gh (twice the efficiency of 28nm) you're talking 10mw of power and heat. Should be able to see that from space.

Time will tell.

[lightfoot]

Most people are just plain stupid. They think they can just buy a bunch of miners and start printing money. Being uninformed is equal to being ignorant, ergo dumb and stupid.

Ignorance=bliss therefore dumb=beautiful. :-)

The proper answer to this is that mining is a form of perfect competition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_competition) and it is IMPOSSIBLE to make economic profits in perfect competition. Bitcoin mining is proving this to a "T".

[tbearhere]

Approximately when is BTC going to half...anybody?  Thank you.

[ncsupanda]

Approximately when is BTC going to half...anybody?  Thank you.

http://bitcoinclock.com/

[tbearhere]

Approximately when is BTC going to half...anybody?  Thank you.

http://bitcoinclock.com/

So it halfs at block 367,500?

[DebitMe]

Approximately when is BTC going to half...anybody?  Thank you.

http://bitcoinclock.com/

So it halfs at block 367,500?

no, 420,000

[tbearhere]

Approximately when is BTC going to half...anybody?  Thank you.

http://bitcoinclock.com/

So it halfs at block 367,500?

no, 420,000

Ok thank you.  

[coinpr0n]

Approximately when is BTC going to half...anybody?  Thank you.

http://bitcoinclock.com/

Reward-Drop ETA: 2016-07-28 23:42:53 UTC (67 weeks, 1 day, 11 hours, 20 minutes)