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Author Topic: [GLBSE] BDT - 3% weekly interest bond, backed by Bitdaytrade  (Read 51580 times)
unclescrooge
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July 19, 2012, 09:51:14 AM
 #21

Bought some, let's see how this baby grow Smiley

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July 19, 2012, 11:04:12 AM
 #22

Bought some, let's see how this baby grow Smiley

Thank you for your support. Much appreciated.

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July 21, 2012, 09:19:31 AM
 #23


The scheduled coupons will be paid starting July 27. On July 20 a coupon of 0.005 BTC per bond will be paid as it is only one day after the IPO.


What about this?

Could be a very interesting investment if contract is kept... Wink

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July 21, 2012, 12:27:43 PM
 #24

purchased 150 shares   Cheesy

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July 21, 2012, 05:55:05 PM
 #25

The scheduled coupons will be paid starting July 27. On July 20 a coupon of 0.005 BTC per bond will be paid as it is only one day after the IPO.
What about this?
Alberto is having some trouble using GLBSE, we'll try to sort this out soon.

Update: 0.006 BTC per bond have been paid due to being 1 day overdue.

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July 27, 2012, 06:55:49 PM
 #26

There are cheezburgers over here! Cheesy

Moving on is a simple thing,
what it leaves behind is hard...
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July 27, 2012, 07:09:43 PM
 #27

Received my dividends, thank you!

Immediately re-invested.
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July 27, 2012, 08:10:39 PM
 #28

well done with the dividends ;-)
just purchased another 54 shares.

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July 29, 2012, 06:26:55 AM
 #29

tl; dr: Every BDT bond will have a face value of 1 BTC and will pay a weekly coupon of 3%. The funds raised will be used for the development of the margin trading platform Bitdaytrade. The IPO will be on July 19 2012, and initially a total of 10,000 bonds will be offered.

https://glbse.com/asset/view/BDT

Introduction. Bitdaytrade is a margin trading platform developed and owned by Alberto Armandi, where CFDs (contracts for difference) can be traded on the price of BTC and gold (BTC/USD is in closed beta), and in the future other assets. The platform is already up and running, but there is still much work to be done; to cover the cost of bringing it to the next level, Alberto is issuing bonds on GLBSE that will pay 3% weekly interest. A total of 8,950 BTC is expected to be raised with this offering.

Operation. The bonds will have a face value of 1 BTC and will be sold to the public at that price. Every week on Friday, at 20:00 GMT, bondholders will receive a coupon of 0.03 BTC per bond. The bonds do not have an expiration date.

If the coupon is not paid on time, a bonus of 0.001 BTC (1 mBTC) per bond will be paid for each calendar day between the scheduled date and the actual payment date. The delay will in no circumstance be longer than 2 weeks.

This is a callable bond. The issuer has the right to buy back all bonds for 1.2 BTC per bond (120% of face value).

The issuer, Alberto Armandi, is responsible for abiding by the terms of the contract.

IPO details. 10,000 bonds will be initially issued, with a total face value of 10,000 BTC. The IPO will be at July 19 2012 at 9:00 UTC.

1,000 bonds will be given to Bitdaytrade partners.

Up to 1,000 bond will be put up for pre-IPO sale. They will be sold at a 5% discount for 0.95 BTC each. This is only available to investors buying at least 100 bonds. Send me a PM to reserve your spot. (Sold out)

The scheduled coupons will be paid starting July 27. On July 20 a coupon of 0.005 BTC per bond will be paid as it is only one day after the IPO.

Update: All pre-IPO bonds have been reserved. Any further requests will be placed on a waiting list to be served if any of the first comers backs out.

Analysis. Unlike a deposit program, bondholders do not have the right to sell back the bonds for their face value; the capital will be used for both upfront payments and reserves, and bitdaytrade cannot commit to having the entire face value of the bonds on call.

However, the issuer does not have a right to change the interest rate. The coupons will be 0.03 BTC per week for as long as the bond is held; the bondholder has a guaranteed perpetual ROI, even if the typical interest rates in the Bitcoin lending market go down.

The issuer does have the right to buy back bonds (which he may do in conjunction with offering new bonds at a lower interest rate), but only by compensating bondholders with almost 7 weeks' worth of interest.

Since the issuer can buy back bonds for 1.2 BTC at any time, it is not advised to bid more than that on a bond in the secondary market.

Please note that the details of this IPO are significantly different from what was planned last month.

Contact information.

Alberto Armandi - Issuer
Email: info@bitdaytrade.com
GTalk: alberto.armandi@gmail.com
Forum: bitdaytrade
Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=41459791

Meni Rosenfeld - IPO manager
Email: glbse@menirosenfeld.com
Forum: Meni Rosenfeld
Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=99439111

ah so you only need 10k BTC ($80k USD) to do what with?  Mt. Gox only trades ~ $800k USD per day in BTC anyway -  how do you plan on generating such an amazing amount of money that you can pay 3% interest weekly?  Seems like every one of these obvious ponzi's claim they are killing it "trading" and "arbitrage" and yet they all need massive, massive investment from a wide # of ppl...

obviously added to Micon's obvious list of Ponzi's

added to Micon's list of ponzi's and scams you should never take part in.

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farfiman
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July 29, 2012, 07:11:09 AM
 #30

[

ah so you only need 10k BTC ($80k USD) to do what with?  Mt. Gox only trades ~ $800k USD per day in BTC anyway -  how do you plan on generating such an amazing amount of money that you can pay 3% interest weekly?  Seems like every one of these obvious ponzi's claim they are killing it "trading" and "arbitrage" and yet they all need massive, massive investment from a wide # of ppl...

obviously added to Micon's obvious list of Ponzi's

added to Micon's list of ponzi's and scams you should never take part in.

Do you have to go into everybody's threads and cause havoc?

No where does it say he is using the money for trading/arbitrage etc...
The money raised is for developing and running the business at this early stage.

"We are just fools. We insanely believe that we can replace one politician with another and something will really change. The ONLY possible way to achieve change is to change the very system of how government functions. Until we are prepared to do that, suck it up for your future belongs to the madness and corruption of politicians."
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July 29, 2012, 09:41:46 AM
 #31

tl; dr: Every BDT bond will have a face value of 1 BTC and will pay a weekly coupon of 3%. The funds raised will be used for the development of the margin trading platform Bitdaytrade. The IPO will be on July 19 2012, and initially a total of 10,000 bonds will be offered.

https://glbse.com/asset/view/BDT

Introduction. Bitdaytrade is a margin trading platform developed and owned by Alberto Armandi, where CFDs (contracts for difference) can be traded on the price of BTC and gold (BTC/USD is in closed beta), and in the future other assets. The platform is already up and running, but there is still much work to be done; to cover the cost of bringing it to the next level, Alberto is issuing bonds on GLBSE that will pay 3% weekly interest. A total of 8,950 BTC is expected to be raised with this offering.

Operation. The bonds will have a face value of 1 BTC and will be sold to the public at that price. Every week on Friday, at 20:00 GMT, bondholders will receive a coupon of 0.03 BTC per bond. The bonds do not have an expiration date.

If the coupon is not paid on time, a bonus of 0.001 BTC (1 mBTC) per bond will be paid for each calendar day between the scheduled date and the actual payment date. The delay will in no circumstance be longer than 2 weeks.

This is a callable bond. The issuer has the right to buy back all bonds for 1.2 BTC per bond (120% of face value).

The issuer, Alberto Armandi, is responsible for abiding by the terms of the contract.

IPO details. 10,000 bonds will be initially issued, with a total face value of 10,000 BTC. The IPO will be at July 19 2012 at 9:00 UTC.

1,000 bonds will be given to Bitdaytrade partners.

Up to 1,000 bond will be put up for pre-IPO sale. They will be sold at a 5% discount for 0.95 BTC each. This is only available to investors buying at least 100 bonds. Send me a PM to reserve your spot. (Sold out)

The scheduled coupons will be paid starting July 27. On July 20 a coupon of 0.005 BTC per bond will be paid as it is only one day after the IPO.

Update: All pre-IPO bonds have been reserved. Any further requests will be placed on a waiting list to be served if any of the first comers backs out.

Analysis. Unlike a deposit program, bondholders do not have the right to sell back the bonds for their face value; the capital will be used for both upfront payments and reserves, and bitdaytrade cannot commit to having the entire face value of the bonds on call.

However, the issuer does not have a right to change the interest rate. The coupons will be 0.03 BTC per week for as long as the bond is held; the bondholder has a guaranteed perpetual ROI, even if the typical interest rates in the Bitcoin lending market go down.

The issuer does have the right to buy back bonds (which he may do in conjunction with offering new bonds at a lower interest rate), but only by compensating bondholders with almost 7 weeks' worth of interest.

Since the issuer can buy back bonds for 1.2 BTC at any time, it is not advised to bid more than that on a bond in the secondary market.

Please note that the details of this IPO are significantly different from what was planned last month.

Contact information.

Alberto Armandi - Issuer
Email: info@bitdaytrade.com
GTalk: alberto.armandi@gmail.com
Forum: bitdaytrade
Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=41459791

Meni Rosenfeld - IPO manager
Email: glbse@menirosenfeld.com
Forum: Meni Rosenfeld
Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=99439111

ah so you only need 10k BTC ($80k USD) to do what with?  Mt. Gox only trades ~ $800k USD per day in BTC anyway -  how do you plan on generating such an amazing amount of money that you can pay 3% interest weekly?  Seems like every one of these obvious ponzi's claim they are killing it "trading" and "arbitrage" and yet they all need massive, massive investment from a wide # of ppl...

obviously added to Micon's obvious list of Ponzi's

added to Micon's list of ponzi's and scams you should never take part in.
If you read the IPO it will be used to develop and maintain the site BitDayTrade which is a margin/leverage trading site, to be able to keep positions and offer a high amount of leverage a huge amount of float is needed Smiley Look at Bitconica 44k stolen xD, It's very profitable for the owner of the site, look it up. They make sick amounts of order match making and interest rates on their leveraged positions.
He has never claimed to be trading or doing arbitrage, please read the thread before complaining, he's using it to build a trading platform not do the actual trading himself.

Please explain how this could be a ponzi when he releases a initial amount of bonds as according to the contract, then there's no plan to release more. The share/GLBSE way of doing a ponzi is very inefficient and doesn't make sense unless you keep a constant ask wall to issue more shares to pay your dividends.

Plus I have actually used BitDayTrade.com and maybe you should as well, it's a actual site not just some imaginary project, it's real and it's there the capital is going to.

Yet again stop this silly witch hunt!
//DeaDTerra
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July 29, 2012, 10:57:03 AM
 #32

Blah
...
Yet again stop this silly witch hunt!
//DeaDTerra
Don't worry, Micon is deliberately trying to appear inflamatory and ill-informed, so that people take the opposite view to the one proposed. Micon is, in fact, trying to drum up more trade for Pirate through this disinformation strategy.

Best tactic is to ignore.
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July 29, 2012, 11:16:04 AM
 #33

Blah
...
Yet again stop this silly witch hunt!
//DeaDTerra
Don't worry, Micon is deliberately trying to appear inflamatory and ill-informed, so that people take the opposite view to the one proposed. Micon is, in fact, trying to drum up more trade for Pirate through this disinformation strategy.

Best tactic is to ignore.

I actually thought this may be the case as well. No one can be that tactless... Can they ?

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July 29, 2012, 11:42:36 AM
 #34

As far as I read Alberto Armandi is the person we give our money to and he has 0 reputation in this forum / bitcoin community, registered June 20, 2012 which is also the reason why you (Meni) started this topic and not Alberto Smiley So I have some questions:


- Who is Alberto Armandi? public proof of identity / residence ...
- Does he have any experience / connections in the margin trading? (because he clearly has no real connections to bitcoins)
- Which "securites" does Alberto Armandi offer? any assets / websites / projects that generate enough revenue to pay everyone in the worst case, because bitdaytrade.com is so far a dead site (0 users), no matter which high end backend it has and therfor without value...
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July 29, 2012, 12:03:30 PM
 #35

- Who is Alberto Armandi? public proof of identity / residence ...
Alberto is the person with this Linkedin profile, an Italian developer and entrepreneur (his profile is outdated, he's in Italy now).

Proofs of identity are not generally given publicly, but he is verified with GLBSE, Mt. Gox and myself, and he has received a letter I sent to his stated residence address.

- Does he have any experience / connections in the margin trading? (because he clearly has no real connections to bitcoins)
He has some experience doing margin trading and has friends with even more experience to whom he goes for advice.

- Which "securites" does Alberto Armandi offer? any assets / websites / projects that generate enough revenue to pay everyone in the worst case?
He has real estate assets which could be liquidated to cover his obligations if it comes to that point.

We are considering applying for Patrick Harnett's credit ratings which could make this clearer.

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Eisenhower34
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July 29, 2012, 12:18:03 PM
 #36

Alberto is the person with this Linkedin profile, an Italian developer and entrepreneur (his profile is outdated, he's in Italy now).

Proofs of identity are not generally given publicly, but he is verified with GLBSE, Mt. Gox and myself, and he has received a letter I sent to his stated residence address.

This Linkdin profile doesnt help when I only get the message (I translated it) "You and this LinkedIn Member have no common contacts. You can only see the profiles of members in your network..." and your word about that he is verified with GLBSE, Mt. Gox and yourself doesnt help when you dont offer a personal commitment to cover Alberto's obligations... while i cannot check if he is really verified with GLBSE, Mt. Gox...

He has some experience doing margin trading and has friends with even more experience to whom he goes for advice.

So your word again, besides that "experience" in margin trading doesnt mean that he knows how to make a website successfull...
What experience does he has? Who are his friends? what experience do they have? all a bit wishy-washy

He has real estate assets which could be liquidated to cover his obligations if it comes to that point.

We are considering applying for Patrick Harnett's credit ratings which could make this clearer.

So your word again... Which assets are that? You have proof that no bank is already the real owner?
an independennt rating from Patrick Harnett's seems a good idea.
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July 29, 2012, 02:28:56 PM
 #37

This Linkdin profile doesnt help when I only get the message (I translated it) "You and this LinkedIn Member have no common contacts. You can only see the profiles of members in your network..."
Right, I forgot how annoying Linkedin can be sometimes (I was already connected with Nefario so I could see Alberto's profile before connecting with him). The short story is that he is involved with some of his family's hotels and has founded the failed startups Enso and Wozad.

and your word about that he is verified with GLBSE, Mt. Gox and yourself doesnt help when you dont offer a personal commitment to cover Alberto's obligations...
This makes no sense, if I had offered a personal commitment there would be no need for Alberto to verify with anyone.

while i cannot check if he is really verified with GLBSE
Of course you can, https://glbse.com/asset/view/BDT, "Verification".

besides that "experience" in margin trading doesnt mean that he knows how to make a website successfull...
You're right, it doesn't.

What experience does he has? Who are his friends? what experience do they have? all a bit wishy-washy
I don't understand the purpose of this line of inquiry or even how it can be meaningfully answered, but I'll check if more information can be made public.

The funds don't need to be raised all at once so you can watch the progress of https://bitdaytrade.com before making any investment decisions.

You have proof that no bank is already the real owner?
No and I don't think it really matters. I'm not sure there's a meaningful way to legally force Alberto to commit his assets to paying GLBSE bondholders (and even if there is we have not pursued it), so you're relying on his word that he will pay out. If you think he's lying about the assets then he's also lying about paying and then it doesn't matter if he owns the assets or not.

an independennt rating from Patrick Harnett's seems a good idea.
I'm not sure what Patrick's procedures are but I assume it will be based mostly on data that we provide, so it may not be the independent confirmation that you are looking for.

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July 29, 2012, 04:05:08 PM
 #38

The short story is that he [...] has founded the failed startups Enso and Wozad.

Doesnt sound promising :/

and your word about that he is verified with GLBSE, Mt. Gox and yourself doesnt help when you dont offer a personal commitment to cover Alberto's obligations...
This makes no sense, if I had offered a personal commitment there would be no need for Alberto to verify with anyone.

I mean, its only your word here that hes trustworthy while you dont have to lose anything by saying that... It means that the investors take the risk here, so he should verify to them. On the one hand you say hes trustworthy but on the other hand you say that you dont trust him enough to offer a personal commitment too or not?
I dont want you to offer personal commitment now, i just say that its easier to convice someone who "doesnt care" than someone who puts his own money on the line Smiley

while i cannot check if he is really verified with GLBSE
Of course you can, https://glbse.com/asset/view/BDT, "Verification".

facebook / likedin / email address which could have been setuped in 30min but Phone number and home address unverified :/ and the photoid ... 30 min photoshop work or an id from somone else? ... I dont want to bitch here but he wants 10,000 BTC ... maybe he should verify there his phone and home address too?

What experience does he has? Who are his friends? what experience do they have? all a bit wishy-washy
I don't understand the purpose of this line of inquiry or even how it can be meaningfully answered, but I'll check if more information can be made public.

The funds don't need to be raised all at once so you can watch the progress of https://bitdaytrade.com before making any investment decisions.

It means who are his friends, do they represent any bigger company? would they trade bigger amounts of cash on bitcointrade? do they perhaps run any successfull websites so they can give "advice" on running this margin trading website? Or run a bigger investment board where he could get free advertising to boost the site?

You have proof that no bank is already the real owner?
No and I don't think it really matters. I'm not sure there's a meaningful way to legally force Alberto to commit his assets to paying GLBSE bondholders (and even if there is we have not pursued it), so you're relying on his word that he will pay out. If you think he's lying about the assets then he's also lying about paying and then it doesn't matter if he owns the assets or not.

Thats why I ask ... I could also say that I own the Eiffel Tower or the Buckingham Palace but without proof its only his word here...

an independennt rating from Patrick Harnett's seems a good idea.
I'm not sure what Patrick's procedures are but I assume it will be based mostly on data that we provide, so it may not be the independent confirmation that you are looking for.

I hope its a bit harder to get a good rating from him, like calling banks for liquidity / notarially certified copy of the entry in the land register to proof ownership / account statement send by mail (not only a "faked" photo)... In germany for example i would call special institutes for credibility ratings...

If he would only want 100 BTC i wouldnt care much but for 10k BTC I (dont know if the rest doesnt) expect a nice strip from him to proof that my money is save...
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July 29, 2012, 07:11:02 PM
 #39

I mean, its only your word here that hes trustworthy while you dont have to lose anything by saying that...
I have plenty to lose. Even with all the disclaimers I expect that my reputation will take a hit if something bad happens after I endorsed him. Also, I am very heavily personally financially invested in Alberto; I don't think sharing the exact numbers is appropriate.

It means that the investors take the risk here,
Of course. It stands to reason that the person standing to gain 3% weekly + recall penalty will take a risk.

so he should verify to them.
We can consider disclosing details in private to serious inquirers. But the premise is that I am somewhat trusted and if I say that I received a photo ID scan then I received a photo ID scan, and if I say that he received a physical letter I mailed to his address then he received a physical letter I mailed to his address - so public investors can be spared the trouble of doing it themselves.

On the one hand you say hes trustworthy but on the other hand you say that you dont trust him enough to offer a personal commitment too or not?
Neither trust nor money are boolean variables. I trust him enough to risk (reputation hit + personal investment) but not enough to risk 10K BTC. If I was 100% certain of his willingness and ability to pay I'd just give him the 10K BTC myself.

I dont want you to offer personal commitment now, i just say that its easier to convice someone who "doesnt care" than someone who puts his own money on the line Smiley
As mentioned I also have my own money on the line. And getting 3% weekly interest for it.

facebook / likedin / email address which could have been setuped in 30min
Facebook account dates back to February 2010, don't know how to check this for Linkedin but I expect around the same and he has 161 connections. That's not something you spoof overnight.

but Phone number and home address unverified :/
And phone number can't be spoofed? Nefario's address verification isn't rigorous anyway, and I've verified his mail address.

and the photoid ... 30 min photoshop work or an id from somone else?
He's probably going to the London conference so you'll have a chance to verify his ID in person.

maybe he should verify there his phone and home address too?
We'll look into it but his identity is not the weakest link here, I don't think there's any reasonable doubt that he is who he says he is. The question is how committed he is to upholding the contract; as mentioned, based on my communication with him I believe he is very committed, but there's no way for me to know with absolute certainty.

It means who are his friends, do they represent any bigger company? would they trade bigger amounts of cash on bitcointrade? do they perhaps run any successfull websites so they can give "advice" on running this margin trading website? Or run a bigger investment board where he could get free advertising to boost the site?
I doubt they have the credentials you seek.

If he would only want 100 BTC i wouldnt care much but for 10k BTC I (dont know if the rest doesnt) expect a nice strip from him to proof that my money is save...
You're welcome to ask questions, but in the end every potential investor will take the available information and make his own decisions. There's no way to rigorously prove that your money is safe, and commenting on lack of such proof isn't helpful.

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July 29, 2012, 11:52:55 PM
 #40

Just want to throw this out there: it's not a ponzi, it's a high-interest loan. If it were a ponzi scheme, the issuer would run away with the money once all of the IPO shares were sold, because paying interest would only reduce the total takeaway and there will not be any other shares issued. If it is a ponzi, then there is absolutely no incentive to pay dividends once all of the bonds are sold. So... wait for dividends, then invest.

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
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