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Warning: Moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Watch out for Ponzi schemes. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose.

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Author Topic: [GLBSE] BDT - 3% weekly interest bond, backed by Bitdaytrade  (Read 51686 times)
pyrkne
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September 23, 2012, 10:46:21 AM
 #321

The topic of this thread is the bond, not Bitdaytrade itself (which probably is also a scam, but not a ponzi). This 3% per week "bond" had all the hallmarks of a ponzi and the same predictable and predicted outcome as a ponzi.
It's nothing like a ponzi. The characteristic of a ponzi is that the underlying business is kept hidden and actually does not exist; in this case the business was specified and did exist (whatever problems it had).

Of course, this was one of the reasons the bond was so attractive. An actual website made it seem so legitimate.
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September 24, 2012, 09:09:57 AM
 #322


Nefario and I are working on a repayment plan with Alberto and will post updates when there's significant progress.

Thanks to the both of you for your continuing effort! The work you are doing is vitally important since having your ID and such verified, must be made to mean something. Thanks again!

Thank you for pushing this. But please do not take promises to pay too serious - could also be typical delay tactics.

I suppose criminal prosecution will work quite well within EU member states. And the evidence in this case seems sufficient to justify prosecution ''in public interest''.
Well, let's wait a (little) bit to see if Alberto is able to resolve this...
We're approaching this in multiple ways. The best outcome by far is if Alberto voluntarily repays, litigation would be a lengthy process with an uncertain outcome.


I did not talk about litigation. I was talking about criminal prosecution.

But I agree, it would be best for Alberto to voluntarily repay. Pronto.  Grin

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September 24, 2012, 11:35:02 AM
 #323

The topic of this thread is the bond, not Bitdaytrade itself (which probably is also a scam, but not a ponzi). This 3% per week "bond" had all the hallmarks of a ponzi and the same predictable and predicted outcome as a ponzi.
It's nothing like a ponzi. The characteristic of a ponzi is that the underlying business is kept hidden and actually does not exist; in this case the business was specified and did exist (whatever problems it had).

Of course, this was one of the reasons the bond was so attractive. An actual website made it seem so legitimate.

Exactly. I was so worried about ponzies at the time that, being clear this couldn't be one, I happily invested without almost considering it could be a different scam... luckily I then woke up and sold early enough!
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September 24, 2012, 01:46:14 PM
 #324

And I did quite the opposite... I never trusted him at the beginning, then after several weeks of payout i thought I lose a good opportunity and now he defaulted 2 weeks after...
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September 24, 2012, 02:11:56 PM
 #325

Exactly. I was so worried about ponzies at the time that, being clear this couldn't be one, I happily invested without almost considering it could be a different scam... luckily I then woke up and sold early enough!

The problems about BDT were clearer than everyone thinks from the beginning, but the once convincing arguments became foggier and then completely drowned as BitDayTrade started being accused of being a Ponzi scheme to no end, together with the avoidance of the subject of its business aspect. In reality, everything about BDT that points to a scam is directly related to its business model and Alberto's competence. The lesson here is, tune out the naysayers together with the promoters and focus on what people who have real information say.
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September 24, 2012, 07:51:53 PM
 #326

Any news on when we can expect our coins back? I thought most of them were just sitting in the chain right outside of the GLBSE under Alberto's control. If that's the case, he should be able to pay off the majority of the debt pretty quickly.
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September 24, 2012, 07:56:03 PM
 #327

Any news on when we can expect our coins back? I thought most of them were just sitting in the chain right outside of the GLBSE under Alberto's control. If that's the case, he should be able to pay off the majority of the debt pretty quickly.
This probably is not the case. I wouldn't hold my breath.

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September 24, 2012, 11:51:18 PM
 #328

Any news on when we can expect our coins back? I thought most of them were just sitting in the chain right outside of the GLBSE under Alberto's control. If that's the case, he should be able to pay off the majority of the debt pretty quickly.
This probably is not the case. I wouldn't hold my breath.

Has he made any "repayments"?

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September 25, 2012, 05:23:01 AM
 #329

Any news on when we can expect our coins back? I thought most of them were just sitting in the chain right outside of the GLBSE under Alberto's control. If that's the case, he should be able to pay off the majority of the debt pretty quickly.
This probably is not the case. I wouldn't hold my breath.

Has he made any "repayments"?
He paid a bit and is supposed to pay some more in a few days.

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September 25, 2012, 05:27:24 AM
 #330

Exactly. I was so worried about ponzies at the time that, being clear this couldn't be one, I happily invested without almost considering it could be a different scam... luckily I then woke up and sold early enough!

The problems about BDT were clearer than everyone thinks from the beginning, but the once convincing arguments became foggier and then completely drowned as BitDayTrade started being accused of being a Ponzi scheme to no end, together with the avoidance of the subject of its business aspect. In reality, everything about BDT that points to a scam is directly related to its business model and Alberto's competence. The lesson here is, tune out the naysayers together with the promoters and focus on what people who have real information say.


Anyone that needs to go to GLBSE to get a site like bitdaytrade.com off the ground is hustling.  If a person can't go out and get a traditional loan then why would anyone want to lend them money?  Was a credit report of this person every pulled?

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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September 25, 2012, 05:32:36 AM
 #331

Any news on when we can expect our coins back? I thought most of them were just sitting in the chain right outside of the GLBSE under Alberto's control. If that's the case, he should be able to pay off the majority of the debt pretty quickly.
This probably is not the case. I wouldn't hold my breath.

Has he made any "repayments"?
He paid a bit and is supposed to pay some more in a few days.

How were these distributed? Via dividends? Because I don't see divs for BDT anywhere listed on the GLBSE. In fact, I don't see the asset's page at all anymore. Any ideas what's going on?

I think I got some coins from him (because some mystery coins appeared in my account today), but I need to keep a record of this so that I know exactly how much % of his debt to me Alberto has repaid. Thanks!
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September 25, 2012, 05:36:40 AM
 #332

Any news on when we can expect our coins back? I thought most of them were just sitting in the chain right outside of the GLBSE under Alberto's control. If that's the case, he should be able to pay off the majority of the debt pretty quickly.
This probably is not the case. I wouldn't hold my breath.

Has he made any "repayments"?
He paid a bit and is supposed to pay some more in a few days.

How were these distributed? Via dividends? Because I don't see divs for BDT anywhere listed on the GLBSE. In fact, I don't see the asset's page at all anymore. Any ideas what's going on?

I think I got some coins from him (because some mystery coins appeared in my account today), but I need to keep a record of this so that I know exactly how much % of his debt to me Alberto has repaid. Thanks!

If there was a dividend payment there would be a record of it in your account.

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cytokine
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September 25, 2012, 05:41:44 AM
 #333

Any news on when we can expect our coins back? I thought most of them were just sitting in the chain right outside of the GLBSE under Alberto's control. If that's the case, he should be able to pay off the majority of the debt pretty quickly.
This probably is not the case. I wouldn't hold my breath.

Has he made any "repayments"?
He paid a bit and is supposed to pay some more in a few days.

How were these distributed? Via dividends? Because I don't see divs for BDT anywhere listed on the GLBSE. In fact, I don't see the asset's page at all anymore. Any ideas what's going on?

I think I got some coins from him (because some mystery coins appeared in my account today), but I need to keep a record of this so that I know exactly how much % of his debt to me Alberto has repaid. Thanks!

If there was a dividend payment there would be a record of it in your account.

Nope, no record of a div payment for BDT. So I don't understand Meni's statement "He has paid a bit"...?

(Update - btw the mystery coins actually look like a sell order was hit, so these are not related to BDT.)

Still though: why can't I look at the dividend history of BDT? The asset page won't load.
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September 25, 2012, 05:55:42 AM
 #334

He paid a bit to Meni, and hopefully if he pays the next bit (which will be bigger) a payment to asset holders can be made.

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September 25, 2012, 06:05:47 AM
 #335

Exactly. I was so worried about ponzies at the time that, being clear this couldn't be one, I happily invested without almost considering it could be a different scam... luckily I then woke up and sold early enough!
The problems about BDT were clearer than everyone thinks from the beginning, but the once convincing arguments became foggier and then completely drowned as BitDayTrade started being accused of being a Ponzi scheme to no end, together with the avoidance of the subject of its business aspect. In reality, everything about BDT that points to a scam is directly related to its business model and Alberto's competence. The lesson here is, tune out the naysayers together with the promoters and focus on what people who have real information say.
Anyone that needs to go to GLBSE to get a site like bitdaytrade.com off the ground is hustling.  If a person can't go out and get a traditional loan then why would anyone want to lend them money?  Was a credit report of this person every pulled?
The same could be said about pretty much every bond or loan in this market. Some of them were legitimate to various degrees, others not. People have their reasons to want to borrow in this way.

A credit report of Alberto was not pulled; in hindsight that could have been a good idea, but people have been borrowing much larger amounts with much less scrutiny.

How were these distributed? Via dividends? Because I don't see divs for BDT anywhere listed on the GLBSE.
You're polling too frequently, we're talking about a timescale of weeks at least.

So far Alberto has paid 200 BTC, which I thought would be reasonable to go towards the debt to me (5% of it) since I didn't get the two last coupons (6.6%). He should pay 2000 soon and if he does we'll figure out the exact distribution.

In fact, I don't see the asset's page at all anymore. Any ideas what's going on?
Right. Nefario?

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September 25, 2012, 02:25:49 PM
 #336

Quote from: Meni Rosenfeld link=topic=93445.msg1
[/quote
You're polling too frequently, we're talking about a timescale of weeks at least.

So far Alberto has paid 200 BTC, which I thought would be reasonable to go towards the debt to me (5% of it) since I didn't get the two last coupons (6.6%). He should pay 2000 soon and if he does we'll figure out the exact distribution.


I have no problem with the 200 btc going to you, however, the last two coupons were not part of the "repayment" right?  i.e. those were dividends not counting toward the 1 btc owed per bond

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September 25, 2012, 07:53:12 PM
 #337

He should pay 2000 soon and if he does we'll figure out the exact distribution.

Any ETA on this?
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September 25, 2012, 08:26:37 PM
 #338

He paid a bit to Meni, and hopefully if he pays the next bit (which will be bigger) a payment to asset holders can be made.

I have no interest in this (it looked like a scam from page 1 of this thread, to me), however - this seems completely wrong headed.

meni represented the asset to investors. Investors have lost out. Meni should be doing the honorable thing here and putting himself in 2nd creditor position AFTER the bondholders. This would undoubtedly help Meni's reputational damage control effort Smiley

Just my 2 satoshis.

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September 25, 2012, 09:22:48 PM
 #339

He paid a bit to Meni, and hopefully if he pays the next bit (which will be bigger) a payment to asset holders can be made.

I have no interest in this (it looked like a scam from page 1 of this thread, to me), however - this seems completely wrong headed.

meni represented the asset to investors. Investors have lost out. Meni should be doing the honorable thing here and putting himself in 2nd creditor position AFTER the bondholders. This would undoubtedly help Meni's reputational damage control effort Smiley

Just my 2 satoshis.

+1

What gives me an unpleasant feeling is that he is still not communicating on the matter in an open way...

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September 25, 2012, 09:57:56 PM
 #340

He paid a bit to Meni, and hopefully if he pays the next bit (which will be bigger) a payment to asset holders can be made.

I have no interest in this (it looked like a scam from page 1 of this thread, to me), however - this seems completely wrong headed.

meni represented the asset to investors. Investors have lost out. Meni should be doing the honorable thing here and putting himself in 2nd creditor position AFTER the bondholders. This would undoubtedly help Meni's reputational damage control effort Smiley

Just my 2 satoshis.

+2

Exactly what I was thinking. Meni's involvement and endorsement is what gave this credibility, he should be last, not first in line.
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