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Author Topic: [GLBSE] BDT - 3% weekly interest bond, backed by Bitdaytrade  (Read 51626 times)
Meni Rosenfeld
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October 06, 2012, 06:25:18 PM
 #381

Has any action been taken to resolve the Alberto case (Nefario announced to take legal action)?
To the best of my knowledge Neafrio hasn't yet moved forward with a concrete action.

Can BDT bondholders expect any future action by Nefario or Meni?
Yes, but I can't say you can expect the action to be effective.

I will talk to a lawyer (hopefully within 1-2 weeks) to see what can be done. I'm open to suggestions.

So since you are the only remaining non-submerged person involved in this - what's the state of affairs, Meni?
I will make an effort to get it resolved but can't promise more than that. The situation was difficult enough even with GLBSE in the picture.

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October 11, 2012, 01:39:28 PM
 #382

Can BDT bondholders expect any future action by Nefario or Meni?
Yes, but I can't say you can expect the action to be effective.

I will talk to a lawyer (hopefully within 1-2 weeks) to see what can be done. I'm open to suggestions.


From my point of view, criminal prosecution is the only effective option. Even if Alberto will never give back the funds, he will be held liable for his actions. Otherwise he could just start the next scam (and as we know from previously disclosed information, his ''Bitcoin activities'' were not his first questionable activities).

Frankly, I'd love to see him jailed.

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October 12, 2012, 10:07:31 PM
 #383

As i already stated, i'm working a process to gather the funds necessary to pay back the cumulated debt. I'll inform Meni once i'm finally ready.

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October 12, 2012, 10:12:57 PM
 #384

As i already stated, i'm working a process to gather the funds necessary to pay back the cumulated debt. I'll inform Meni once i'm finally ready.

How will the payback proceed now that GLBSE has closed down?

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October 12, 2012, 10:22:17 PM
 #385

As i already stated, i'm working a process to gather the funds necessary to pay back the cumulated debt. I'll inform Meni once i'm finally ready.

How will the payback proceed now that GLBSE has closed down?

I have exact figures regarding my debt with Meni. I've recalled half of the bonds back in september, so there are 5000 left in the market, though frozen. It will be important to determine who still owns them and in what quanties. I guess this data will be available upon request from James Mc Carthy ( Nefario ).

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October 13, 2012, 03:02:49 AM
 #386

As i already stated, i'm working a process to gather the funds necessary to pay back the cumulated debt. I'll inform Meni once i'm finally ready.

What did you do with the funds bro? They were earmarked for BDT, were they not? If so, they should be at bitdaytrade's broker (he broker used to hedge users' positions).

So, where did it go that you now need to get it back?

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October 13, 2012, 01:20:18 PM
 #387

As i already stated, i'm working a process to gather the funds necessary to pay back the cumulated debt. I'll inform Meni once i'm finally ready.

I think it's pointless to expect anything from Alberto - he's just playing the delaying game. He won't pay back voluntarily.

Handing this over to law enforcement authorities ASAP seems to be the best option. He can still pay back to show good will and lower his sentence.

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October 13, 2012, 02:04:02 PM
 #388

As i already stated, i'm working a process to gather the funds necessary to pay back the cumulated debt. I'll inform Meni once i'm finally ready.

Handing this over to law enforcement authorities ASAP seems to be the best option. He can still pay back to show good will and lower his sentence.

Handling exactely what accusation ? BDT was a legitimate business venture, in retrospect probably offering a 3% week interest and raising such large amounts of money was a mistake. It finally exposed the operation to unwanted risks. A couple of days before the august hack on some overlooked security issues, which was conducted "criminally" to say the least, i had just loaded the mtgox account used for hedging with about 1000 bitcoin. I left for a short trip and when the hack happened i wasn't home. I tried to manage the crisis from my laptop and while on the move, but it escalated up and as i've later learned the criminals spent away almost the whole mtgox balance, while not being able to withdraw, they still managed to create thousands of sell transactions and waste it on mtgox fees. That caused a flash crash in the price that can be clearly seen in the charts. Site database was also deleted and  i've been victim of multiple bitcoin ransom attempts.
While BDT wasn't generating anymore money, and it's reputation seriously hindered with my own one, i was still obliged and continued to pay the unstainable interest rates. This caused the debt to grow larger and led to me going for a bad investment which caused more losses. Later i've asked nefario to freeze the asset while i tried to resolve the situation. An initial payment has been made, but i had and still have some delays for a larger one. Efforts are being made to resolve the matters amicably and updates will be provided.

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October 13, 2012, 02:21:24 PM
 #389

Handling exactely what accusation ?

A formal accusation is not needed. It's sufficient to bring the facts to attention of the authorities. They'll investigate.

It's not necessary to comment on the other story parts - would be just a waste of time.

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October 13, 2012, 06:44:07 PM
 #390

I left for a short trip and when the hack happened i wasn't home. I tried to manage the crisis from my laptop and while on the move, but it escalated up and as i've later learned the criminals spent away almost the whole mtgox balance, while not being able to withdraw, they still managed to create thousands of sell transactions and waste it on mtgox fees. That caused a flash crash in the price that can be clearly seen in the charts.

Thousands of sell transactions would just leave USD in the account. To deplete the funds, someone with the mtgox api key would need to do an equal number of alternating buys and sells (paying the spread each time, which is much greater than the mtgox fee).

Are you saying that after the hack, you shut the site down but you left the mtgox api key active?

You assured that all funds were safe.

Not even one bitcoin was withdrawn from Bitdaytrade.com under today's attacks, and all funds are safe. Server will be kept offline for further investigation, and gathering of evidences to be presented upon filing a criminal deposition with all the legal authorities i am/will be able to.

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October 20, 2012, 07:35:37 PM
 #391

I've talked with some lawyers; unsurprisingly, the bottom line is that going to court would be an expensive process with an uncertain outcome, and as such should be pursued only as a last resort. I will give Alberto another chance to resolve this amicably before going forward with this option.

Alberto says that until more funds can be obtained, he will make payments from a mining operation of a friend of his (I'm still looking into the details of this). Funds will be forwarded to my address http://blockchain.info/address/17r6iGwC9iHBxJzw7nLQEgCcpw7xKWdkid; the amount collected will be tallied until it can be distributed among bondholders (the total received is of interest rather than final balance, as this is part of my normal wallet). The amounts so far are tiny.

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October 23, 2012, 06:45:56 PM
 #392

I've talked with some lawyers; unsurprisingly, the bottom line is that going to court would be an expensive process with an uncertain outcome, and as such should be pursued only as a last resort. I will give Alberto another chance to resolve this amicably before going forward with this option.

Alberto says that until more funds can be obtained, he will make payments from a mining operation of a friend of his (I'm still looking into the details of this). Funds will be forwarded to my address http://blockchain.info/address/17r6iGwC9iHBxJzw7nLQEgCcpw7xKWdkid; the amount collected will be tallied until it can be distributed among bondholders. The amounts so far are tiny.


Do you really believe Alberto will resolve this voluntarily? He's just delaying and hoping his case will be forgotten.

He already paid BTC 2.98. That's impressive! Only ~5000 days left to cover his debt at the current repayment rate.



(No lawyers needed for prosecution by italian authorities. Costs only postage.)

Meni Rosenfeld
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October 23, 2012, 07:56:08 PM
 #393

Do you really believe Alberto will resolve this voluntarily?
I don't know. But without giving him a chance to try, all other methods are moot. 2 months is a lot in Bitcoin time but not as much in real time.

He's just delaying and hoping his case will be forgotten.
If that's all he's doing there's no rush. Whatever I can do now I can do in 2 months.

(No lawyers needed for prosecution by italian authorities. Costs only postage.)
I highly doubt one could just contact them saying this man borrowed bitcoins and not paying them back, and they'll do something about that. How sure are you that they will?


Anyway before seeing your message I've just chatted for an hour with Alberto. Nothing much came out of it but I'll update on any further progress.

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October 24, 2012, 11:58:10 AM
 #394

He's just delaying and hoping his case will be forgotten.
If that's all he's doing there's no rush. Whatever I can do now I can do in 2 months.

In two months you may think different on this matter.

(No lawyers needed for prosecution by italian authorities. Costs only postage.)
I highly doubt one could just contact them saying this man borrowed bitcoins and not paying them back, and they'll do something about that. How sure are you that they will?

I'm 99% sure. The circumstances make it pretty clear that it is not just "borrowing bitcoins and not paying them back". In addition, there are a lot of victims, the amount of loss clearly exceeds $/EUR 50000, and it seems to have not been his first "activity" of this kind. There are multiple starting points for criminal prosecution. It is not up to us to decide which ones apply. Authorities will do that simply 'cause it's their job.

But I will not comment on this further.

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October 27, 2012, 01:02:38 AM
 #395

As i already stated, i'm working a process to gather the funds necessary to pay back the cumulated debt. I'll inform Meni once i'm finally ready.

How is this coming along? I understand this takes time, but I'd be interested to know what's currently happening.

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October 27, 2012, 04:13:32 AM
 #396

He's just delaying and hoping his case will be forgotten.
If that's all he's doing there's no rush. Whatever I can do now I can do in 2 months.

In two months you may think different on this matter.

(No lawyers needed for prosecution by italian authorities. Costs only postage.)
I highly doubt one could just contact them saying this man borrowed bitcoins and not paying them back, and they'll do something about that. How sure are you that they will?

I'm 99% sure. The circumstances make it pretty clear that it is not just "borrowing bitcoins and not paying them back". In addition, there are a lot of victims, the amount of loss clearly exceeds $/EUR 50000, and it seems to have not been his first "activity" of this kind. There are multiple starting points for criminal prosecution. It is not up to us to decide which ones apply. Authorities will do that simply 'cause it's their job.

But I will not comment on this further.

You are completely out of track, as i said previously, bitdaytrade was started as a legitimate operation. I have put my identity upfront, as i did already before with previous business attempts. The amount of debt is close to USD 50.000 for BDT. Procedures are in place to sort this out within 2012.

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November 04, 2012, 07:22:23 PM
 #397

He's just delaying and hoping his case will be forgotten.
If that's all he's doing there's no rush. Whatever I can do now I can do in 2 months.

In two months you may think different on this matter.

(No lawyers needed for prosecution by italian authorities. Costs only postage.)
I highly doubt one could just contact them saying this man borrowed bitcoins and not paying them back, and they'll do something about that. How sure are you that they will?

I'm 99% sure. The circumstances make it pretty clear that it is not just "borrowing bitcoins and not paying them back". In addition, there are a lot of victims, the amount of loss clearly exceeds $/EUR 50000, and it seems to have not been his first "activity" of this kind. There are multiple starting points for criminal prosecution. It is not up to us to decide which ones apply. Authorities will do that simply 'cause it's their job.

But I will not comment on this further.

You are completely out of track, as i said previously, bitdaytrade was started as a legitimate operation. I have put my identity upfront, as i did already before with previous business attempts. The amount of debt is close to USD 50.000 for BDT. Procedures are in place to sort this out within 2012.

updates?  what "procedures"?  Are you selling some real estate or something?

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November 16, 2012, 12:31:00 PM
 #398

To keep this on watch.

What's the status, Meni?

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November 16, 2012, 12:53:13 PM
 #399

To keep this on watch.

What's the status, Meni?
Alberto's explanations of the situation aren't very convincing, but I'm giving him until early December to come up with some form of payment. I'm also exploring legal, law enforcement and other possibilities for escalating this in case this fails.

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November 23, 2012, 05:21:02 AM
 #400

Any updates now that GLBSE is finally sending out asset lists? There were procedures in place to wrap this up before the end of 2012?

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