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Author Topic: Public STATEMENT Regarding Bitcoinica account hack at MtGox  (Read 72236 times)
guruvan
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July 26, 2012, 03:15:24 PM
 #261

Seriously, you 3 together have done a much better investigation than any "actual investigation" most official judges or police bureaus in the world would. The only think you lack is "authority".

Yes, such a good investigation, and yet they can't prove anything and decided to release private customer information and libel against a customer in the process.

Class act.

Zhou, get a lawyer, but get one to sue these shmucks.


It is not up to any of us to judge if funds should be unlocked, we should have an actual court with an actual judge do an actual investigation first.

Instead, it's your job to libel against customers for things you have no proof of?


I'm gonna take a break from Bitcoin for a while. When I come back, I hope to see that it's returned to being Bitcoin again and not just a microversion of the US government with a bunch of hot-head businesses eager for attention.

We can only hope the break is permanent. Maybe you'll help yourself to a dictionary while you take your break. You can learn the definition of libel, and slander, and see how they apply to your own words.

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July 26, 2012, 03:18:55 PM
 #262

I am the owner of www.cnbtcnews.com. I introduce bitcoin to chinese people.
The evidence is from one person of my qq group.
zhoutong sell LR, and he buy LR from zhoutong.

How does this person know for sure Zhou Thong was behind U9236056?

He buy LR from zhoutong ,zhoutong show the LR account and the total fund is $23439.57.

How do you know he bought it from "ZT" if it was just over electronic communication?

cnbtcnews showed a screenshot for the transaction, from which it can be seen QQ member Ryan/ZT's LR account the same as ZT said today.
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July 26, 2012, 03:21:11 PM
 #263

Seriously, you 3 together have done a much better investigation than any "actual investigation" most official judges or police bureaus in the world would. The only think you lack is "authority".

Yes, such a good investigation, and yet they can't prove anything and decided to release private customer information and libel against a customer in the process.

Class act.

Zhou, get a lawyer, but get one to sue these shmucks.


It is not up to any of us to judge if funds should be unlocked, we should have an actual court with an actual judge do an actual investigation first.

Instead, it's your job to libel against customers for things you have no proof of?


I'm gonna take a break from Bitcoin for a while. When I come back, I hope to see that it's returned to being Bitcoin again and not just a microversion of the US government with a bunch of hot-head businesses eager for attention.

We can only hope the break is permanent. Maybe you'll help yourself to a dictionary while you take your break. You can learn the definition of libel, and slander, and see how they apply to your own words.

+1
Herodes
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July 26, 2012, 03:26:23 PM
 #264

Relevant?

Session Time: Fri Jul 13 00:00:00 2012
[00:49] * phantomcircuit (~phantomci@c-67-188-9-35.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #intersango
[00:49] * ChanServ sets mode: +o phantomcircuit
[01:01] * phantomcircuit sets mode: -o phantomcircuit
[01:01] * phantomcircuit is now known as steve_bobs

Session Time: Fri Jul 13 00:00:00 2012
[00:49] * phantomcircuit (~phantomci@c-67-188-9-35.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoinconsultancy
[01:01] * phantomcircuit is now known as steve_bobs

Session Time: Fri Jul 13 00:00:00 2012
[00:49] * phantomcircuit (~phantomci@c-67-188-9-35.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoinica
[01:01] * phantomcircuit is now known as steve_bobs

Huh? Wtf Huh
If this log is real, this guy's got some explaining to do

I just read through all of this and missed if there was a follow-up to this post?

The IP in question is an american one, which doesn't necessarily mean anything. But it seems from that log (if legit), that phantomcircuit is given op privilegies, which means he should be identified with NickServ? AFAIK, you can authenticate from any ip, so if phantomcircuit's e-mail was compromized earlier on (as was stated on this forum), then his IRC personality could be compromized as well, for all we know, his computer(s) may be backdoored.

Googling ~phantomci@c-67-188-9-35.hsd1.ca.comcast.net gives some results, but I'm not going to do anymore research, if anyone feels up to it, go ahead.

I don't know Zou Thong, but personally I would've never have sold my operations to any 'security expert' that's previously been inolved in cracking said operations and boasting on it in a public forum...

http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2011/09/12/4
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2011/09/12/5

Did some research anyway:
41 days ago, the same identity was used by a user called phantomcircuit:
http://pastie.org/4096261

Aparently he's discussing the pay back process rather grumpily on that occasion.

However, "phantomcircuit is now known as steve_bobs" yielded no hits while searching on google, so perhaps it's just trolling ?

On one side I agree that the bitcoin companies breached their privacy statements, however, I for one, thought the information was interesting to get, however it also means that anyone in a similar position in the future can not trust that their account will not be frozen for similar reasons and their information being put public.

But it's funny that, now suddenly Zou Thong was able to find a 'suspect', actually a 'friend' of him to boot. I find it hard that he was not able to think of this earlier.


I see a lot of people are calling for police investigation in these matters. In the end, Bitcoinica customers are interested in clawing back their money, so what would be better than appointing reputable members of the forum, that would have access to a certain amount of the total funds each, and then have BC  hand over all the funds and then the claims process could continue ?

There are probably numerous criminal acts that's been comitted throughout this debacle, and the involved actors know this. Therefore they do not go to the police. Also, an investigation would probably take a lot of time, and it's questionable if it would lead to anything at all, but those who'd be richer by such a process would be the lawyers.

If Zou Thong is guilty, it would be better to step up, admit to it, and try to rectify the situation. If he's not guilty he sure as hell have made a lot of bad calls and have involved himself with 'criminal friends'.

(Somebody with a lot of time on their hands should create a site wiki-style and gather all the evidence with citations!)

The saga is not over yet. Look forward to the movie!
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July 26, 2012, 03:27:58 PM
 #265

I'm gonna take a break from Bitcoin for a while.

What does this mean for Bitcoin Magazine/Ellet/UndisclosedSecretBitcoinProjectNumber12?
In the meantime you should have noticed that Matthews rarely keeps promises exactly as stated.

And it is very interesting that one of the most vocal public disclosure persons wants to suppress an investigation in this case.
He also tries to steer the discussion away from the actual theft case to something else.
We should start asking what Matthew has to loose in this case.

That is a serious question I've had in this case. I was highly suspect of PM I received from him some time ago.

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July 26, 2012, 03:31:04 PM
 #266

I don't know Zou Thong, but personally I would've never have sold my operations to any 'security expert' that's previously been inolved in cracking said operations and boasting on it in a public forum...

http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2011/09/12/4
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2011/09/12/5

Every crime has a motive. And what you have there was most likely the motive for what happened after Bitcoin Consultancy took over Bitcoinica Wink

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July 26, 2012, 03:31:54 PM
 #267



We should start asking what Matthew has to loose in this case.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_retentiveness
Quote
The term anal-retentive (also anally retentive), commonly abbreviated to anal,[1] is used conversationally to describe a person who pays such attention to detail that the obsession becomes an annoyance to others, potentially to the detriment of the anal-retentive person. The term derives from Freudian psychoanalysis.
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July 26, 2012, 03:37:51 PM
 #268

Relevant?

Session Time: Fri Jul 13 00:00:00 2012
[00:49] * phantomcircuit (~phantomci@c-67-188-9-35.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #intersango
[00:49] * ChanServ sets mode: +o phantomcircuit
[01:01] * phantomcircuit sets mode: -o phantomcircuit
[01:01] * phantomcircuit is now known as steve_bobs

Session Time: Fri Jul 13 00:00:00 2012
[00:49] * phantomcircuit (~phantomci@c-67-188-9-35.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoinconsultancy
[01:01] * phantomcircuit is now known as steve_bobs

Session Time: Fri Jul 13 00:00:00 2012
[00:49] * phantomcircuit (~phantomci@c-67-188-9-35.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoinica
[01:01] * phantomcircuit is now known as steve_bobs

I call fake on that chat-log. I can't find any evidence of that anywhere.

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July 26, 2012, 03:42:22 PM
 #269

Relevant?

Session Time: Fri Jul 13 00:00:00 2012
[00:49] * phantomcircuit (~phantomci@c-67-188-9-35.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #intersango
[00:49] * ChanServ sets mode: +o phantomcircuit
[01:01] * phantomcircuit sets mode: -o phantomcircuit
[01:01] * phantomcircuit is now known as steve_bobs

Session Time: Fri Jul 13 00:00:00 2012
[00:49] * phantomcircuit (~phantomci@c-67-188-9-35.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoinconsultancy
[01:01] * phantomcircuit is now known as steve_bobs

Session Time: Fri Jul 13 00:00:00 2012
[00:49] * phantomcircuit (~phantomci@c-67-188-9-35.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoinica
[01:01] * phantomcircuit is now known as steve_bobs

I call fake on that chat-log. I can't find any evidence of that anywhere.

<sarcasm>
You mean btcx isn't a reputable source?!?
</sarcasm>
guruvan
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July 26, 2012, 04:08:59 PM
 #270

Relevant?

Session Time: Fri Jul 13 00:00:00 2012
[00:49] * phantomcircuit (~phantomci@c-67-188-9-35.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #intersango
[00:49] * ChanServ sets mode: +o phantomcircuit
[01:01] * phantomcircuit sets mode: -o phantomcircuit
[01:01] * phantomcircuit is now known as steve_bobs

Session Time: Fri Jul 13 00:00:00 2012
[00:49] * phantomcircuit (~phantomci@c-67-188-9-35.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoinconsultancy
[01:01] * phantomcircuit is now known as steve_bobs

Session Time: Fri Jul 13 00:00:00 2012
[00:49] * phantomcircuit (~phantomci@c-67-188-9-35.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoinica
[01:01] * phantomcircuit is now known as steve_bobs

Huh? Wtf Huh
If this log is real, this guy's got some explaining to do

I just read through all of this and missed if there was a follow-up to this post?

The IP in question is an american one, which doesn't necessarily mean anything. But it seems from that log (if legit), that phantomcircuit is given op privilegies, which means he should be identified with NickServ? AFAIK, you can authenticate from any ip, so if phantomcircuit's e-mail was compromized earlier on (as was stated on this forum), then his IRC personality could be compromized as well, for all we know, his computer(s) may be backdoored.

Googling ~phantomci@c-67-188-9-35.hsd1.ca.comcast.net gives some results, but I'm not going to do anymore research, if anyone feels up to it, go ahead.

I don't know Zou Thong, but personally I would've never have sold my operations to any 'security expert' that's previously been inolved in cracking said operations and boasting on it in a public forum...

http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2011/09/12/4
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2011/09/12/5

Did some research anyway:
41 days ago, the same identity was used by a user called phantomcircuit:
http://pastie.org/4096261

Aparently he's discussing the pay back process rather grumpily on that occasion.



Yes. He was quite pissed off at me in particular. I raised questions very early on after signing into this forum the first time - why the fuck do people trust this guy who has been known to hack competitors' sites?

phantomcircuit is one of the least trustworthy people I know in bitcoin. He is a calculating, deceitful, and dishonest person. Getting him to tell the truth is nearly impossible. I find it highly suspect that he left after the last hack. I found it highly suspect that the first hack happened not long after he had access to bitcoinica.

But, now ZT's bullshit story of the "friend" calls that motive into question. I have to wonder if there aren't MULTIPLE parties looting bitcoinica.

It has been my opinion since the hack, that the hack that closed bitcoinica was premeditated and intended to cover up the significant losses of customer funds due to "bad hedges" (or, more likely, looting already in progress)

What I am pretty damn sure of at this point: I have lost my $500 and position to an inside job.

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July 26, 2012, 04:17:15 PM
 #271

Would have been nice to keep me in the loop at that point, then.

Zhou's explanation sounds convincing, but as previously said it is not up to us to judge, and legal action is most likely unavoidable at this point.


Either way, I believe many here would appreciate to know who they can turn themselves to to get things moving forward.

If you go to a judge after publicly humiliating Zhou Tong, I am pretty sure the judge will throw the case out. If you had wanted to go to law enforcement in the first place, you should have done that prior to posting any public statement in the first place.
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July 26, 2012, 04:22:23 PM
 #272

If you go to a judge after publicly humiliating Zhou Tong, I am pretty sure the judge will throw the case out. If you had wanted to go to law enforcement in the first place, you should have done that prior to posting any public statement in the first place.


I doubt it.  Making a public statement about him (even a humiliating one) doesn't make Zhou Tong less guilty of theft, so he would still be punished.

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July 26, 2012, 04:22:41 PM
 #273

I'm not sure about Zhou being the hacker.  Anyone remember one of the earlier hacks when the hacker was in irc giving away free coins from the heist?  That particular hacker seemed to not really be in it for financial gain and more in it because he was some hardcore anarchist that had been upset by something bitcoinica or bitcoin consultancy had done that pissed him off, that being the case I wouldn't put it past that particular hacker to try and setup Zhou or someone else involved to make it look bad for them.  

Also Zhou's behavior kinda strikes me as an innocent man being setup, but none of us here know for sure so the lynch mob thing needs to calm down a bit.
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July 26, 2012, 04:26:28 PM
 #274

They stated an email linked to him was connected to suspicious transactions, Zhou Tong himself acknowledges this. IMO, Zhou Tong has to be more worried that he publicly acknowledged previous association with a black market operator and is claiming they have hacked him. On top of that he is acting as an intermediary between this 'alleged' culprit and the affected parties in relaying his offer of a partial payback in exchange for not pursuing criminal investigations.

Would have been nice to keep me in the loop at that point, then.

Zhou's explanation sounds convincing, but as previously said it is not up to us to judge, and legal action is most likely unavoidable at this point.


Either way, I believe many here would appreciate to know who they can turn themselves to to get things moving forward.

If you go to a judge after publicly humiliating Zhou Tong, I am pretty sure the judge will throw the case out. If you had wanted to go to law enforcement in the first place, you should have done that prior to posting any public statement in the first place.


                                                                               
                
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                                           ▄▄▌██▀▀╚  ╓██╩██                    
                                     ▄▄███▀▀╙      ▄██  ▓█                     
                               ▄▌███▀▀+          ▄█▀   ▐█                      
                        ,▄▌███▀▀¬              ▓█▀     █▄                      
                  ,▄▌███▀▀                  ,██▀      █▌                       
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                     ▀██▄        ╚▀▀▀████          ▐█═                         
                        ▀██▄        ▓█▀██          █▀                          
                           ▀██▄  ,██▀   █µ        ██                           
                              ▀███Z     ██       ██                            
                                ▐██     ▐█      ▄█                             
                              ,,╓╓█▓▄▌   █▌    ▐█U                             
                        º▄▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓███   ▀█    █▌                              
                          ▀█▓▓▓▓▓████▀█▌  █▌  ██                               
                            ▀███████▌  ▀█µ▀█ ██                                
                              ▀█████     ███▓█                                 
                                ▐███      ▀██Ñ                                 
                                            ▀                             

Vod
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July 26, 2012, 04:26:57 PM
 #275

Anyone remember one of the earlier hacks when the hacker was in irc giving away free coins from the heist?  

Anyone remember Zhou giving away 5,000 btc to anyone who asked?  Appears to be his M.O.

Sorry, but the evidence against him is overwhelming.  At this point, he has no choice but to refund 100% of the money he stole, otherwise people are going to be coming to see him.  Hopefully he will learn a life lesson out of this - DON'T STEAL.

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July 26, 2012, 04:32:29 PM
 #276

that being the case I wouldn't put it past that particular hacker to try and setup Zhou or someone else involved to make it look bad for them.
What's more likely? Zhou was the victim of a stupendous setup by a person who we have no to reason or evidence to believe exists, thus absolving Zhou of blame, or that he creating this persona for that purpose? This is the classic behaviour of cheating juveniles.

Also Zhou's behavior kinda strikes me as an innocent man being setup, but none of us here know for sure so the lynch mob thing needs to calm down a bit.
No it doesn't. If you haven't the faculties to realise that you have been shafted, don't deny others their right to retaliate in kind.


BB.
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July 26, 2012, 04:36:51 PM
 #277

What's more likely? Zhou was the victim of a stupendous setup by a person who we have no reason or evidence to believe exists, thus absolving Zhou of blame, or that he creating this persona for that purpose? This is the classic behavior of cheating juveniles.

Exactly.  "I'm holding it for a friend" is the oldest excuse in the book.

Zhou spent the 69 minutes typing up the long post, and now he is sitting back seeing what suckers believe it.

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July 26, 2012, 04:42:26 PM
 #278

Would have been nice to keep me in the loop at that point, then.

Zhou's explanation sounds convincing, but as previously said it is not up to us to judge, and legal action is most likely unavoidable at this point.


Either way, I believe many here would appreciate to know who they can turn themselves to to get things moving forward.

If you go to a judge after publicly humiliating Zhou Tong, I am pretty sure the judge will throw the case out. If you had wanted to go to law enforcement in the first place, you should have done that prior to posting any public statement in the first place.


It would be public prosecutors taking the case to court based on the objective evidence gathered by law enforcement.  A judge isn't going to throw out criminal charges because someone said something on the internet.  It's not like anyone here would be likely to be sitting on the jury.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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July 26, 2012, 05:30:41 PM
 #279

I hope everyone can comment with more reasoning and less assumptions. I'm trying my best to calm down and attempt to get more information about the hacker, because he also used my email for a credit card fraud case. It's possible to discover something at that direction.

I have also listed a few people who know this secret email of mine. And I'm going to question them one by one tonight.

I'm definitely on the side of Bitcoinica customers and I believe that if the real hacker really had ties with me personally like what MagicalTux said, I may be able to recover majority of the amount back if the hacker can be warned. This issue is very serious and if I'm the hacker, I would definitely return the full amount back to reduce the criminal punishment.

The hacker seems to be a Chinese because he used Chinese punctuations in his English messages in the Aurumxchange ticket.

I will provide any information needed to the police once Bitcoinica files a police report.

The hacker has now been warned and has returned all the stolen funds in 5...4...3...

(I have no idea how I got two pages behind in such a short period of time, so if the above has for real happened already, forgive me)

He probably doesn't know that. I have received another email just now and it seems that the hacker isn't aware of this thread at all:

https://www.aurumxchange.com/help/ticket.php?track=Y72-1AN-3Y4H&Refresh=32888

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pFbfXZSseU (following Maged's lead with this video in reply to the above)

Shit! I'm further behind. By the time I get caught up with this thread, Zhou Tong will be telling this to Zhou "Little Tommy" Tong III as a bedtime story.

~Bruno~
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July 26, 2012, 05:38:44 PM
 #280

I hope everyone can comment with more reasoning and less assumptions. I'm trying my best to calm down and attempt to get more information about the hacker, because he also used my email for a credit card fraud case. It's possible to discover something at that direction.

I have also listed a few people who know this secret email of mine. And I'm going to question them one by one tonight.

I'm definitely on the side of Bitcoinica customers and I believe that if the real hacker really had ties with me personally like what MagicalTux said, I may be able to recover majority of the amount back if the hacker can be warned. This issue is very serious and if I'm the hacker, I would definitely return the full amount back to reduce the criminal punishment.

The hacker seems to be a Chinese because he used Chinese punctuations in his English messages in the Aurumxchange ticket.

I will provide any information needed to the police once Bitcoinica files a police report.

The hacker has now been warned and has returned all the stolen funds in 5...4...3...

(I have no idea how I got two pages behind in such a short period of time, so if the above has for real happened already, forgive me)

He probably doesn't know that. I have received another email just now and it seems that the hacker isn't aware of this thread at all:

https://www.aurumxchange.com/help/ticket.php?track=Y72-1AN-3Y4H&Refresh=32888

just easy simple or the biggest fake ever!! Cheesy

So this superhacker is able to break into his computer yet he is this dumb now?  the hacker is smart enough to steal all this money but not smart enough to not even bother framing people as it leaves more evidence?  Come on.... or maybe steal a lot of bitcoins and make it seem like you are being framed.  It is like Basic Instinct, write a book of a crime before it occurs then it becomes the person's alibi.

It's an excellent Discipline when pulled off flawlessly.
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