Public STATEMENT Regarding Bitcoinica account hack at MtGox

[HorseRider]

I'm going to send the Liu Haipeng's ICBC account mentioned by Zhoutong 0.01 RMB, to identify the province location of the bank account.

Just wait.


---

edit

The bank account was opened in 黑龙江省牡丹江(Mudanjiang, Heilongjiang Province. )
The Chinese name of this bank account is 刘海鹏

hopefully that this will be helpful. However, it can be a bank account bought from the black market.

[btcx]

Mark, please post MtGox's customer privacy agreement here in this thread.

AurumXChange and BitInstant should as well.

This.

If information has to be released, release it to the police.

I'm quite unclear as to why the involved parties are disclosing this kind of information on a public internet forum.
At worst it might even harm an official investigation.

I'm curious about AurumExchange's and MT's actual motivations for posting all this.

Part of the problem is that Bitcoinica's operators are AWOL.  They haven't filed a police report, which hasn't opened up the process which would allow his kind of stuff to be formally requested and provided.  Now it's either up to the investors or the users to sue for a resolution.  We all have a claim against Bitcoinica but as of this moment, the only entity with a claim against the hacker is Bitcoinica.  No criminal law enforcement agency in the world is going to pick this case up given the mess it is and, sorry to say, relatively small amount of money that is involved.  We may be able to get local cops on it after a court has sorted out who is responsible for what but that's a ways off.

Why anybody still has their money at Intersango is beyond me.

[Matthew N. Wright]

What aurum,mtgox and bitinstant did here is exactly the nature of bitcoin where a community should be able to work through arguments and evidence together

No. What they did is unprofessional, completely irresponsible (they didn't even contact the person they are claiming did something wrong--- so what is the point of the thread?), and possibly illegal.

[Matthew N. Wright]

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[SomeoneWeird]

This thread started at 4:00PM Victoria Time. I'm curious as to what time those classes started. And I thought you were still in Singapore.

~Bruno~

It wouldn't tell you much.  He could have whole days where he has no lectures or tutorials and others where they're spread throughout the day and don't finish until 9pm.

this. I only go to school 2 days, but those 2 days are 14 hour days.

[flatfly]

Relevant?

Session Time: Fri Jul 13 00:00:00 2012
[00:49] * phantomcircuit (~phantomci@c-67-188-9-35.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #intersango
[00:49] * ChanServ sets mode: +o phantomcircuit
[01:01] * phantomcircuit sets mode: -o phantomcircuit
[01:01] * phantomcircuit is now known as steve_bobs

Session Time: Fri Jul 13 00:00:00 2012
[00:49] * phantomcircuit (~phantomci@c-67-188-9-35.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoinconsultancy
[01:01] * phantomcircuit is now known as steve_bobs

Session Time: Fri Jul 13 00:00:00 2012
[00:49] * phantomcircuit (~phantomci@c-67-188-9-35.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoinica
[01:01] * phantomcircuit is now known as steve_bobs

? Wtf ?  
If this log is real, this guy's got some explaining to do

[Matthew N. Wright]

I demand AurumXChange provide the order by a ruling body of competent jurisdiction as recognized by Commonwealth of Dominica law that demanded that they create this thread and attempt to connect Zhou Tong to a hack (without even contacting him to ask first).

I would also strongly agree with repentance that Zhou Tong get legal representation, but mostly because it seems like AurumXChange, MtGox and BitInstant need a lesson in customer privacy laws.

[MagicalTux]

No. What they did is unprofessional, completely irresponsible (they didn't even contact the person they are claiming did something wrong--- so what is the point of the thread?), and possibly illegal.

Unlike many of the people on this forum, we act based on legal advice from seasoned lawyers.

The information disclosed here has been disclosed for some time to the people involved with Bitcoinica, but it seems that none of them has talked to Zhou about this yet, nor started any legal action (at least none that reached any of us).

[Matthew N. Wright]

No. What they did is unprofessional, completely irresponsible (they didn't even contact the person they are claiming did something wrong--- so what is the point of the thread?), and possibly illegal.

Unlike many of the people on this forum, we act based on legal advice from seasoned lawyers.

The information disclosed here has been disclosed for some time to the people involved with Bitcoinica, but it seems that none of them has talked to Zhou about this yet, nor started any legal action (at least none that reached any of us).

No legal action = you have no right to disclose it publicly.


While I'm sure we're all eager to hear Zhou Tong's response as it is unfortunate how the situation looks, it is unnecessary to make this a forum witch hunt and is becoming more and more clear that you, AurumXChange and BitInstant do not take your own privacy policies seriously.

Hold the funds privately, let Zhou Tong give up his own right to privacy by bitching about it on the forum if he chooses to, but don't go breaking laws and giving out your customer's personal information to angry internet mobs and endangering his life when you don't even have sufficient proof that he is actually anything more than a victim of identity theft. This disgusts me deeply. The Zhou hating is tolerable from this community, but if you have any sense Mark, you will remove yourself from this thread that AurumXChange seems to be only so happy to risk their entire business in posting.

[davout]

AurumXchange is blocking funds allegedly belonging to Zhou Tong without any disclosed (until now) reason. Legal advice on AurumXchange's side was to issue a statement as soon as possible to clarify the situation as it was being made public on this very forum.

Releasing a statement to ZT about his money being frozen : sounds ok to me.
Publishing a statement to an angry mob looking for a scapegoat : probably not the smartest thing.

I highly doubt that AE's legal counsel advised them to publish anything on a public internet forum.

In absence of any legal action from the victims of this hack,

This is an assumption, not a fact.

we have no course of action to contact the police, but will be held responsible if funds are released then legal processing is started at a later point.

A financial institution has to freeze funds if they suspect illegal activity/ML and report it to the authorities.
I'm not saying it would have been smart to release the funds, but maybe it isn't very smart either to release this kind of information on a public forum and not report anything to the police (AFAIK you haven't done that, have you?).

What I find amusing is that everyone wanted to get to the bottom of all of this and now that more evidence is being presented a certain number of users want to throw rocks at those releasing the information to the public.

The only rocks being thrown are being targeted at ZT. Look at it this way : what has been achieved by posting this info here ? Nothing. Will it help an actual police investigation? Probably the opposite.

[LightRider]

The beauty of having government to solve issues like this is that they have the best interests of everyone involved at heart and only seek to find the truth of the matter and arrange to punish the guilty and give whatever restitution is possible to the victims.

To what mythical organization do you refer?

[Raoul Duke]

What aurum,mtgox and bitinstant did here is exactly the nature of bitcoin where a community should be able to work through arguments and evidence together

No. What they did is unprofessional, completely irresponsible (they didn't even contact the person they are claiming did something wrong--- so what is the point of the thread?), and possibly illegal.

That's possibly illegal, but I'll tell you a couple things which are REALLY illegal:

1- Stealing $500.000 between USD and BTC.
2- Unauthorized access to computer systems.

If the above 2 illegal matters aren't reason enough to fear repercussions from law enforcement because no reports were filed, why would Bitinstant, AurumXchange or MtGox fear repercussions for what they did in this thread?

[MagicalTux]

No legal action = you have no right to disclose it publicly.

I'll let you discuss this with AurumXchange's attorneys if you really insist on this.

[repentance]

Press charges against a minor?

Most modern legal systems charge teenagers with crimes they commit (although they can allow discretion about whether to pursue charges for minor offences).  What can vary is whether or not the case gets heard in an adult court and the type of sentence imposed (diversionary programmes are often preferred for young offenders).

[davout]

No. What they did is unprofessional, completely irresponsible (they didn't even contact the person they are claiming did something wrong--- so what is the point of the thread?), and possibly illegal.

Unlike many of the people on this forum, we act based on legal advice from seasoned lawyers.

The information disclosed here has been disclosed for some time to the people involved with Bitcoinica, but it seems that none of them has talked to Zhou about this yet, nor started any legal action (at least none that reached any of us).

Ok, so what was the advice ? Publish this kind of sensitive information on a public forum? To achieve what? That's what I thought.

[LightRider]

No. What they did is unprofessional, completely irresponsible (they didn't even contact the person they are claiming did something wrong--- so what is the point of the thread?), and possibly illegal.

Unlike many of the people on this forum, we act based on legal advice from seasoned lawyers.

The information disclosed here has been disclosed for some time to the people involved with Bitcoinica, but it seems that none of them has talked to Zhou about this yet, nor started any legal action (at least none that reached any of us).

Ok, so what was the advice ? Publish this kind of sensitive information on a public forum? To achieve what? That's what I thought.

If they were entertainment industry lawyers, it probably serves to enhance the dramatainment of the bitcoinica saga.

[MagicalTux]

AurumXchange is blocking funds allegedly belonging to Zhou Tong without any disclosed (until now) reason. Legal advice on AurumXchange's side was to issue a statement as soon as possible to clarify the situation as it was being made public on this very forum.

Releasing a statement to ZT about his money being frozen : sounds ok to me.
Publishing a statement to an angry mob looking for a scapegoat : probably not the smartest thing.

I highly doubt that AE's legal counsel advised them to publish anything on a public internet forum.

I guess you're up for a surprise on this one.

In absence of any legal action from the victims of this hack,

This is an assumption, not a fact.

The fact is that at this time no party has contacted us in any way to notify us of any action (we are in contact with all the parties involved in Bitcoinica). In absence of any legal context to relate to, there is only so much we can do.

we have no course of action to contact the police, but will be held responsible if funds are released then legal processing is started at a later point.

A financial institution has to freeze funds if they suspect illegal activity/ML and report it to the authorities.
I'm not saying it would have been smart to release the funds, but maybe it isn't very smart either to release this kind of information on a public forum and not report anything to the police (AFAIK you haven't done that, have you?).

I do not know the situation on that aspect, as the funds are not held with MtGox (we are merely helping with the investigation and trying to ensure the information flows correctly to the community).

[Matthew N. Wright]

No legal action = you have no right to disclose it publicly.

I'll let you discuss this with AurumXchange's attorneys if you really insist on this.

Zhou Tong, when he gets an attorney to represent him, can talk to AurumXChange's attorneys himself about the blatant breach of privacy on their part. You worry about the breach of privacy on your part.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Let this be a warning to everyone:

If your account is hacked (email or otherwise), MtGox, AurumXChange and BitInstant might start a thread calling you a thief and a hacker publicly and just leave it up to you to find the thread and figure out a defense instead of discussing the issue with you directly or contacting any authorities.

[LightRider]

Let this be a warning to everyone:

If your account is hacked (email or otherwise), MtGox, AurumXChange and BitInstant might start a thread calling you a thief and a hacker publicly and just leave it up to you to find the thread and figure out a defense instead of discussing the issue with you directly or contacting any authorities.

I think Matt is upset because this Bitcoinica story is developing faster than a traditional print magazine can keep up with. I mean, the first one still listed Bitcoinica as a proud partner and one of Bitcoin's Greatest Hits.

EDIT: To be fair, AE did say

Zhou, I know what you are up to. This funds have been frozen as well pending investigation, and will not be released until the investigation is concluded.

in the ticket. https://www.aurumxchange.com/help/ticket.php?track=NLY-9AG-E468&Refresh=24195

That does kind of imply that Zhou is guilty of something.