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WearsMyLiberty
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June 21, 2015, 12:05:19 AM |
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what happens if Micon loses the case, will SwCpoker stop its operation?
I don't think so. Before he left, he said some other people were working on the site and his case will not affect the operation of the site. But incase they make a deal to clear him for shutting down the site, then I wouldn't know. Yeah, the site is being operated right now by other team members, and that will continue. The case doesn't have anything to do with SwCpoker so I wouldn't worry about it going anywhere. That said... good luck to Micon next week. #FreeMicon On a poker note, The Big 5 is coming up. Would be cool to get this tournament back up to 50+ players.  |
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tspacepilot
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June 21, 2015, 06:39:06 AM |
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That said... good luck to Micon next week. #FreeMicon
Is Micon having some hearing or something next week? I was actually just asking myself if there was any news about his prosecution situation. |
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TippingPoint
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June 21, 2015, 04:01:45 PM |
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If he is not able to prove that he was just a spokesperson for the site, it would be difficult for him to not be charged with running the site.
It is actually the opposite of that. He does not have to prove anything. The prosecution has to do the proving. |
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sherbyspark
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June 21, 2015, 05:39:22 PM |
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If he is not able to prove that he was just a spokesperson for the site, it would be difficult for him to not be charged with running the site.
It is actually the opposite of that. He does not have to prove anything. The prosecution has to do the proving. I would still argue with that, as if the government finds out you are involved with a company and they see you only as part of the team, then they will likely accuse you for any charges . If you then claim to be the spokesperson, then their next step would be to ask you to give the details of the people running the site as you would essentially just be an accomplice to it. I believe they did confiscate all his computers and drives back in Feb during the raid, so they must have something on him from that, otherwise they wouldn't have charged him with it. From one of his conversations on skype they also quoted him " “You can give me a quick google and see that I started SealsWithClubs.eu in 2011 and amassed a considerable wealth with the increase in Bitcoin price,” Micon wrote in a Skype conversation. “I plan to relaunch the (Lock Poker) brand and make all players whole.”" which doesn't sound like him being a spokesperson. |
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tspacepilot
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June 21, 2015, 06:54:08 PM |
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@sherbyspark, thanks for the link, reading that article now.
WRT your convo with tipping point, I think TP is correct that officially the prosecution has to do the proving and the defense has to merely cast "reasonable doubt" on that accusation. However, I think you're correct in practice, the government doesn't really have any accountability in these things and it's not at all clear that they have to play by the rules in bringing someone tro trial and amassing evidicence against that person.
Hope Micon ends up okay, personally, I always appreciated his bravery for putting his name and his face out there the way he did. I hope he doesn't have to pay for that courage.
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WearsMyLiberty
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June 21, 2015, 08:53:20 PM |
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I don't want to do any speculating and assuming... so I'm just gonna leave it at saying that my thoughts are with him and his family and I wish him luck.
The Medium BTC starts in an hour - currently the largest weekly tournament on SwC: Late registration until :36 after the hour, deposits take 1 confirmation.
Also as usual there are 25 Chip Freerolls running throughout the day. |
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Sicilian
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June 21, 2015, 09:29:32 PM |
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From one of his conversations on skype they also quoted him " “You can give me a quick google and see that I started SealsWithClubs.eu in 2011 and amassed a considerable wealth with the increase in Bitcoin price,” Micon wrote in a Skype conversation. “I plan to relaunch the (Lock Poker) brand and make all players whole.”"
which doesn't sound like him being a spokesperson.
I'm going to speculate that he was just trolling Jenny Larsen in that conversation, or just trying to get information on Lock's financial status. He did have a radio show at the time and could have been looking for material. |
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tspacepilot
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June 21, 2015, 10:00:17 PM |
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From one of his conversations on skype they also quoted him " “You can give me a quick google and see that I started SealsWithClubs.eu in 2011 and amassed a considerable wealth with the increase in Bitcoin price,” Micon wrote in a Skype conversation. “I plan to relaunch the (Lock Poker) brand and make all players whole.”"
which doesn't sound like him being a spokesperson.
I'm going to speculate that he was just trolling Jenny Larsen in that conversation, or just trying to get information on Lock's financial status. He did have a radio show at the time and could have been looking for material. Indeed, it's well known that showing someone boasting on a forum isn't the same thing as showing proof that something is true. But I also agree with WearsMyLiberty that I'm not really going to get into the debate any more because in the end, I merely wish the guy the best and I hate to see a courageous guy getting taken to task simply for being man enough to put his name and face behind an awsome service. |
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darkmule
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June 22, 2015, 04:24:56 AM |
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I believe they did confiscate all his computers and drives back in Feb during the raid, so they must have something on him from that, otherwise they wouldn't have charged him with it. I wouldn't take that as a certainty. Once you've launched a huge armed raid on someone and seized their shit, you're almost locked into prosecuting because if you don't, you're probably getting sued yourself. I can't really judge what's going on at the moment. It doesn't look good for Micon, but then nothing involving being criminally prosecuted ever looks good. I hope he knows what he's doing coming back to face this. Possibly, he found out the extent of their case and his defense is unimpressed enough with it they're willing to take their chances. Or they have reason to expect a good deal. But it could be a grim situation where he was just too broke to either stay in Antigua or defend himself and just had no real option other than to come back and face the music. I hope for the best. |
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sherbyspark
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June 22, 2015, 06:30:11 AM |
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Thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't gone in that deep and wasn't here when it all started out. I believe they did confiscate all his computers and drives back in Feb during the raid, so they must have something on him from that, otherwise they wouldn't have charged him with it. I wouldn't take that as a certainty. Once you've launched a huge armed raid on someone and seized their shit, you're almost locked into prosecuting because if you don't, you're probably getting sued yourself. I can't really judge what's going on at the moment. It doesn't look good for Micon, but then nothing involving being criminally prosecuted ever looks good. I hope he knows what he's doing coming back to face this. Possibly, he found out the extent of their case and his defense is unimpressed enough with it they're willing to take their chances. Or they have reason to expect a good deal. But it could be a grim situation where he was just too broke to either stay in Antigua or defend himself and just had no real option other than to come back and face the music. I hope for the best. Thats absolutely true. But again they had valid reasons (suspicion of being the operator of an unlicensed casino) . All we can do like the others is hope he gets through. |
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TippingPoint
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June 25, 2015, 07:12:24 PM |
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Micon pled guilty today, in exchange for no jail time, probation, can file to have his record reflect a gross misdemeanor instead of a felony, $25,000 fine, and he agreed to allow Nevada to keep $900, 3 Bitcoins, and electronics that they confiscated. http://vegasinc.com/business/2015/jun/25/man-charged-running-bitcoin-poker-site-agrees-guil/ |
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TippingPoint
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June 25, 2015, 08:20:21 PM
Last edit: June 25, 2015, 08:32:10 PM by TippingPoint |
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If Micon is an employee there, he should quit. If he owns any part of it, he should divest. Before his next court appearance. Documentation required.
Painful
Take the medicine
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SyGambler
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June 25, 2015, 09:00:18 PM |
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guys I don't understand too much in law so what now !! Micon agreed that he is guilty !! is that will make the situation better ?? please if someone understands the situation tell me more |
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Indamuck
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June 25, 2015, 09:09:18 PM |
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guys I don't understand too much in law so what now !! Micon agreed that he is guilty !! is that will make the situation better ?? please if someone understands the situation tell me more Its not like that Sy. It is a type of legal extortion in the US. Basically the big Las Vegas Casinos paid politicians to write laws protecting the casinos. And the casinos pay/finance the elections, re-elections, campaigns etc. of judges, sherrifs, politicians, etc. So Micon is basically being f*cked by the big casinos, who are using the so-called legal system to harrass him. It would be very expensive, and likely futile, for Micon to fight the charges, so what he did was 'cut a deal' with the prosecutor. Basically the deal looks like this: Micon agrees to plead 'guilty' for a so-called crime that is relatively minor compared with what the prosecutor is threatening to charge him with. In return, both the state and Micon avoid the very large expense of taking the whole case to trial, and Micon gets a much-reduced sentence. Basically Micon agreed to say 'guilty' in order to stay out of jail, and with his young family, and avoid going broke trying to defend himself. He did what any of us would do in his shoes. Sad but true. US legal system is neither fair nor blind. It is built by the wealthy for the wealthy, to protect what's theirs. Bitcoin is a threat, so bitcoin businesses will be targeted when they can ... |
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SyGambler
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June 25, 2015, 09:57:54 PM |
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guys I don't understand too much in law so what now !! Micon agreed that he is guilty !! is that will make the situation better ?? please if someone understands the situation tell me more Its not like that Sy. It is a type of legal extortion in the US. Basically the big Las Vegas Casinos paid politicians to write laws protecting the casinos. And the casinos pay/finance the elections, re-elections, campaigns etc. of judges, sherrifs, politicians, etc. So Micon is basically being f*cked by the big casinos, who are using the so-called legal system to harrass him. It would be very expensive, and likely futile, for Micon to fight the charges, so what he did was 'cut a deal' with the prosecutor. Basically the deal looks like this: Micon agrees to plead 'guilty' for a so-called crime that is relatively minor compared with what the prosecutor is threatening to charge him with. In return, both the state and Micon avoid the very large expense of taking the whole case to trial, and Micon gets a much-reduced sentence. Basically Micon agreed to say 'guilty' in order to stay out of jail, and with his young family, and avoid going broke trying to defend himself. He did what any of us would do in his shoes. Sad but true. US legal system is neither fair nor blind. It is built by the wealthy for the wealthy, to protect what's theirs. Bitcoin is a threat, so bitcoin businesses will be targeted when they can ... ahh thanks mate , now I start to understand a little about the case so it's impossible to run a gambling business in the US , it would be impossible for a BTC site to make a deal with these politicians since the big casinos keep their mouths full of cash I just hope that Micon can enjoy a normal life with his wife and little daughter |
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tspacepilot
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June 25, 2015, 11:10:43 PM |
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The worst part of this to me is that Micon is taking the sting for simply being brave enough to admit what he was doing. As far as I can tell, he merely put a friendly face and a front door onto an otherwise anonymous business. Anyway, I'm just saying that I hope that the silent partners from seals with clubs who stayed anonymous and are completely off the hook are going to be paying micons fees and his rent and whatnot for a long time. Nevertheless, it seems that things could have been a lot worse for Micon so in that sense there is good news here. The man gets to stay with his family and avoid jail. |
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darkmule
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June 26, 2015, 04:59:30 AM |
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Meh. That sucks, but that's very good as this kind of deal goes. I'm glad Micon made the right choice here. Anything that doesn't involve any chance of jail and doesn't result in being a convicted felon is a good deal. |
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Dogedigital
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June 26, 2015, 01:39:58 PM |
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Given the circumstances, this is a great verdict and precedent that's been set for the Bitcoin Gambling space and a win for Micon in my books IMHO.
No jail time, charge able to be reduced to a gross misdemeanor, and a small $25,000 fine.
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