[Announcement] Butterfly Labs

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Dear ShadowOfHarbringer,

Usually I don't respond to unfriendly posts, but maybe this one needs a bit of addressing. We've had the honor of having Sonny in our corporation
for the past year. He is a bright and honorable person who had come face to face with strong forces behind the scenes without knowing. Many movies
have been made to try and demonstrate how governments and lobbying powers operate. They can kill, sabotage, prosecute or pretty much do anything
they desire without consequences as they have the power, money and weapons to make their point.

The United States Government does not recognize international bounderies when it comes to its interests and demands. The attack on the PirateBay
servers in Sweden is a good instance. Should the owners of PirateBay been Americans, I'm sure they'd already been serving for life in some prison in USA,
under charges of money-laundry, tax evasion (ads on the site), child pornography and so on and so forth. It's easy to hurt people who are powerless.
Even in France this may happen, eventhough on a much smaller scale ( I can't recall any at this point ).

Regarding whether we are a scam or not, the several thousand shipped units can speak for itself. We've used the experience gained in mass production
of our singles in our SC production cycle (we've got a MyData Pick-And-Place and an Oven for high-speed and high-volume inhouse assembly). Someone
mentioned the backlog is already 5,000. On a production speed of 500 units a day for instance, 5,000 will only take 10 days. We've already prepared the
infratructue for very high volume production, since the great portion of the orders will come in after the SC is released to the public. 5,000 units is not much
compared to orders we expect to receive after SC release, so we're very ready for it.

I hope this message has addressed some of your questions.

Regards,
Nasser

+1 Hopefully this post gives others who don't want to read this entire thread some useful information about BFL.

I only have a question about the oven. Didn't BFL just purchase their first oven?

~Bruno K~

[SgtSpike]

Dear ShadowOfHarbringer,

Usually I don't respond to unfriendly posts, but maybe this one needs a bit of addressing. We've had the honor of having Sonny in our corporation
for the past year. He is a bright and honorable person who had come face to face with strong forces behind the scenes without knowing. Many movies
have been made to try and demonstrate how governments and lobbying powers operate. They can kill, sabotage, prosecute or pretty much do anything
they desire without consequences as they have the power, money and weapons to make their point.

The United States Government does not recognize international bounderies when it comes to its interests and demands. The attack on the PirateBay
servers in Sweden is a good instance. Should the owners of PirateBay been Americans, I'm sure they'd already been serving for life in some prison in USA,
under charges of money-laundry, tax evasion (ads on the site), child pornography and so on and so forth. It's easy to hurt people who are powerless.
Even in France this may happen, eventhough on a much smaller scale ( I can't recall any at this point ).

Regarding whether we are a scam or not, the several thousand shipped units can speak for itself. We've used the experience gained in mass production
of our singles in our SC production cycle (we've got a MyData Pick-And-Place and an Oven for high-speed and high-volume inhouse assembly). Someone
mentioned the backlog is already 5,000. On a production speed of 500 units a day for instance, 5,000 will only take 10 days. We've already prepared the
infratructue for very high volume production, since the great portion of the orders will come in after the SC is released to the public. 5,000 units is not much
compared to orders we expect to receive after SC release, so we're very ready for it.

I hope this message has addressed some of your questions.

Regards,
Nasser

+1 Hopefully this post gives others who don't want to read this entire thread some useful information about BFL.

I only have a question about the oven. Didn't BFL just purchase their first oven?

~Bruno K~

Maybe they already received it?

[Rassah]

At the time of this post, I think they had only just won the e-bay auction for it, and it was still in shipping. Judging by the recent photos of the ASIC boards, it looks like their pick-and-place machine and oven are operational. At least enough to create aesthetically correct looking boards. Just have to wait and see if you can run current through them with any sort of desired results.

[SgtSpike]

At the time of this post, I think they had only just won the e-bay auction for it, and it was still in shipping. Judging by the recent photos of the ASIC boards, it looks like their pick-and-place machine and over are operational. At least enough to create aesthetically correct looking boards. Just have to wait and see if you can run current through them with any sort of desired results.

The recent photos are prototypes, and Josh already said that the first "batch" of units will be handmade, not created with the machinery they recently purchased.

[SLok]

First batch will be produced outhouse by the same company that made their fpga  and mini-rig boards. And I hope not by hand 

[SgtSpike]

First batch will be produced outhouse by the same company that made their fpga  and mini-rig boards. And I hope not by hand 

Perhaps "by hand" isn't the right wording, but yes, using the same process that they did for their FPGA's.  I thought those were all built in-house though.  They had a different company assembling them?  Who?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

At the time of this post, I think they had only just won the e-bay auction for it, and it was still in shipping. Judging by the recent photos of the ASIC boards, it looks like their pick-and-place machine and over are operational. At least enough to create aesthetically correct looking boards. Just have to wait and see if you can run current through them with any sort of desired results.

The timeframe was close, Rassah, but...

Dear ShadowOfHarbringer,

Usually I don't respond to unfriendly posts, but maybe this one needs a bit of addressing. We've had the honor of having Sonny in our corporation
for the past year. He is a bright and honorable person who had come face to face with strong forces behind the scenes without knowing. Many movies
have been made to try and demonstrate how governments and lobbying powers operate. They can kill, sabotage, prosecute or pretty much do anything
they desire without consequences as they have the power, money and weapons to make their point.

The United States Government does not recognize international bounderies when it comes to its interests and demands. The attack on the PirateBay
servers in Sweden is a good instance. Should the owners of PirateBay been Americans, I'm sure they'd already been serving for life in some prison in USA,
under charges of money-laundry, tax evasion (ads on the site), child pornography and so on and so forth. It's easy to hurt people who are powerless.
Even in France this may happen, eventhough on a much smaller scale ( I can't recall any at this point ).

Regarding whether we are a scam or not, the several thousand shipped units can speak for itself. We've used the experience gained in mass production of our singles in our SC production cycle (we've got a MyData Pick-And-Place and an Oven for high-speed and high-volume inhouse assembly). Someone mentioned the backlog is already 5,000. On a production speed of 500 units a day for instance, 5,000 will only take 10 days. We've already prepared the infratructue for very high volume production, since the great portion of the orders will come in after the SC is released to the public. 5,000 units is not much compared to orders we expect to receive after SC release, so we're very ready for it.

I hope this message has addressed some of your questions.

Regards,
Nasser

Nasser's quote was from September 21, 2012, 03:55:49 AM.

The auction ended at Sep 28, 2012 08:20:35 PDT http://www.ebay.com/itm/ESSEMTEC-RO300FC-REFLOW-OVEN-/320989507198?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4abc772e7e&nma=true&si=mAWggEYKpH4g2H7aZLAFESK6gGA%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

The item was listed on the September 24, 2012, with the 10 day Buy it Now Option, thus purchased on the 4th day of when it was listed. Proof here: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:MmvMm15qTFcJ:www.ebay.com/sch/Manufacturing-Metalworking-/11804/i.html%3F_nkw%3Dreflow%2Boven+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

In the quoted text above (in bold), Nasser speaks in the past tense as if they already own and are operating the reflow oven for assembling.

That's the only point I was trying to clear up.

~Bruno K~

[SLok]

I don't know who actually makes the boards but Josh said:
"we will not be using the SMT equipment to process our first batch of boards; we will be using the same house that did the pick and place for our previous generation products, which means we're still at the mercy of someone else for our first batch shipments. "

from https://forums.butterflylabs.com/showthread.php/104-Shipping-in-2-3-weeks?p=1461&viewfull=1#post1461

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I don't know who actually makes the boards but Josh said:
"we will not be using the SMT equipment to process our first batch of boards; we will be using the same house that did the pick and place for our previous generation products, which means we're still at the mercy of someone else for our first batch shipments. "

from https://forums.butterflylabs.com/showthread.php/104-Shipping-in-2-3-weeks?p=1461&viewfull=1#post1461

Yet Nasser states above, in bold, that the equipment is in place and they are VERY ready for it.

[SLok]

At the time of this post, I think they had only just won the e-bay auction for it, and it was still in shipping. Judging by the recent photos of the ASIC boards, it looks like their pick-and-place machine and over are operational. At least enough to create aesthetically correct looking boards. Just have to wait and see if you can run current through them with any sort of desired results.

The timeframe was close, Rassah, but...

Dear ShadowOfHarbringer,

Usually I don't respond to unfriendly posts, but maybe this one needs a bit of addressing. We've had the honor of having Sonny in our corporation
for the past year. He is a bright and honorable person who had come face to face with strong forces behind the scenes without knowing. Many movies
have been made to try and demonstrate how governments and lobbying powers operate. They can kill, sabotage, prosecute or pretty much do anything
they desire without consequences as they have the power, money and weapons to make their point.

The United States Government does not recognize international bounderies when it comes to its interests and demands. The attack on the PirateBay
servers in Sweden is a good instance. Should the owners of PirateBay been Americans, I'm sure they'd already been serving for life in some prison in USA,
under charges of money-laundry, tax evasion (ads on the site), child pornography and so on and so forth. It's easy to hurt people who are powerless.
Even in France this may happen, eventhough on a much smaller scale ( I can't recall any at this point ).

Regarding whether we are a scam or not, the several thousand shipped units can speak for itself. We've used the experience gained in mass production of our singles in our SC production cycle (we've got a MyData Pick-And-Place and an Oven for high-speed and high-volume inhouse assembly). Someone mentioned the backlog is already 5,000. On a production speed of 500 units a day for instance, 5,000 will only take 10 days. We've already prepared the infratructue for very high volume production, since the great portion of the orders will come in after the SC is released to the public. 5,000 units is not much compared to orders we expect to receive after SC release, so we're very ready for it.

I hope this message has addressed some of your questions.

Regards,
Nasser

Nasser's quote was from September 21, 2012, 03:55:49 AM.

The auction ended at Sep 28, 2012 08:20:35 PDT http://www.ebay.com/itm/ESSEMTEC-RO300FC-REFLOW-OVEN-/320989507198?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4abc772e7e&nma=true&si=mAWggEYKpH4g2H7aZLAFESK6gGA%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

The item was listed on the September 24, 2012, with the 10 day Buy it Now Option, thus purchased on the 4th day of when it was listed. Proof here: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:MmvMm15qTFcJ:www.ebay.com/sch/Manufacturing-Metalworking-/11804/i.html%3F_nkw%3Dreflow%2Boven+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

In the quoted text above (in bold), Nasser speaks in the past tense as if they already own and are operating the reflow oven for assembling.

That's the only point I was trying to clear up.

~Bruno K~

But where does "We've used the experience gained in mass production of our singles in our SC production cycle " indicate that they gained that experience in their own production facility?

[SgtSpike]

I don't know who actually makes the boards but Josh said:
"we will not be using the SMT equipment to process our first batch of boards; we will be using the same house that did the pick and place for our previous generation products, which means we're still at the mercy of someone else for our first batch shipments. "

from https://forums.butterflylabs.com/showthread.php/104-Shipping-in-2-3-weeks?p=1461&viewfull=1#post1461

Yet Nasser states above, in bold, that the equipment is in place and they are VERY ready for it.

He doesn't say the equipment is in place.  He says "we've got" which I take to mean "we have got" the equipment.  It could mean "we have procured", or "we have contracted".  It doesn't directly state that the equipment is in place and ready to go.

I could say that I have gotten a laptop.  I did, in fact, buy one a few days ago.  I have not yet received it, but I have indeed "gotten a laptop".

So, I read Nasser's statement as "We've used the experience in mass producing singles to better plan for our SC production, and have purchased equipment to produce the SC boards in-house."

[Phinnaeus Gage]

"We've used the experience in mass producing singles to better plan for our SC production, and have purchased equipment to produce the SC boards in-house."

That makes sense, SgtSpike. Thus it's what BFL purchased off eBay is what's he's in reference to, is that correct?

Later, bud.

~Bruno K~

[Syke]

He doesn't say the equipment is in place.  He says "we've got" which I take to mean "we have got" the equipment.  It could mean "we have procured", or "we have contracted".

That would be stretching the truth, but then, they've got plenty of experience in that.

[SLok]

Maybe just pm Nasser asking him to explain here what he meant when he said that in relation to the time when he did etc., coz this speculating leads to nothing.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

He doesn't say the equipment is in place.  He says "we've got" which I take to mean "we have got" the equipment.  It could mean "we have procured", or "we have contracted".

That would be stretching the truth, but then, they've got plenty of experience in that.

And therein lies the rub, for I've already laid out the time frame of events below:

Nasser's quote was from September 21, 2012, 03:55:49 AM.

The auction ended at Sep 28, 2012 08:20:35 PDT http://www.ebay.com/itm/ESSEMTEC-RO300FC-REFLOW-OVEN-/320989507198?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4abc772e7e&nma=true&si=mAWggEYKpH4g2H7aZLAFESK6gGA%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

The item was listed on the September 24, 2012, with the 10 day Buy it Now Option, thus purchased on the 4th day of when it was listed. Proof here: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:MmvMm15qTFcJ:www.ebay.com/sch/Manufacturing-Metalworking-/11804/i.html%3F_nkw%3Dreflow%2Boven+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

In the quoted text above (in bold), Nasser speaks in the past tense as if they already own and are operating the reflow oven for assembling.

That's the only point I was trying to clear up.

(we've got a MyData Pick-And-Place and an Oven for high-speed and high-volume inhouse assembly)

we've got as in we have now a... This was stated on Sep 21, three days before the auction for the eBay oven even started.

Nasser is expressing in that quote that BFL now (which was then, on the 21st) has equipment in place to handle the assemble load. It was later that the press releases came out stating that they have new equipment.

I've already shown that the eBayer that they purchased from lied as to the nature of where the equipment came from. He stated in one of the listings that he was selling it for some lady, but I proved that he purchased the equipment last year.

If I represented BFL, and were confronted with an issue as such, I couldn't reach for a camera fast enough to show pics of the equipment, cropping out anything that may give my competitors an advantage. As far you for the one image of said piece of equipment being unloaded from the truck, how do we really know it wasn't being loaded onto the truck--not off.

But the hell with that, for the way I still read it is that Nasser states that BFL already owned a oven.

~Bruno K~

[Bogart]

He doesn't say the equipment is in place.  He says "we've got" which I take to mean "we have got" the equipment.  It could mean "we have procured", or "we have contracted".

That would be stretching the truth, but then, they've got plenty of experience in that.

I see what you did there.

[Keefe]

The word "assemble" can be misinterpreted. Soldering components to the PCB? Or putting the PCB (with all components already soldered) together with a cooler into a case? My guess is BFL's first batch will be soldered by the same place that did their FPGA boards, and BFL will put the boards together with coolers in cases in their own facility.

[crazyates]

The word "assemble" can be misinterpreted. Soldering components to the PCB? Or putting the PCB (with all components already soldered) together with a cooler into a case? My guess is BFL's first batch will be soldered by the same place that did their FPGA boards, and BFL will put the boards together with coolers in cases in their own facility.

That's my impression too, but I think their end goal is to be able to do both, without any outside assembly at all.

[abeaulieu]

The word "assemble" can be misinterpreted. Soldering components to the PCB? Or putting the PCB (with all components already soldered) together with a cooler into a case? My guess is BFL's first batch will be soldered by the same place that did their FPGA boards, and BFL will put the boards together with coolers in cases in their own facility.

That's my impression too, but I think their end goal is to be able to do both, without any outside assembly at all.

They wouldn't have bought those machines without the goal to eventually place (solder) components to the PCB s in their facility.

[firefop]

The word "assemble" can be misinterpreted. Soldering components to the PCB? Or putting the PCB (with all components already soldered) together with a cooler into a case? My guess is BFL's first batch will be soldered by the same place that did their FPGA boards, and BFL will put the boards together with coolers in cases in their own facility.

That's my impression too, but I think their end goal is to be able to do both, without any outside assembly at all.

The confirmation that the existing foundry would be used for the first wave of ASICs has forced me to delay upgrading the rest of my fpgas. The QC at that place is just sloppy - so chips that aren't flush.

I don't really think I'd want a rig that comes from there... hopefully they'll get fully in house before the second round... up the quality a bit.