[DASH/XDN/XMR/SDC] Comparison between the most known anonymous coins (MUST READ)

[P3RS3US]

It does not work fine, it doesn't decode the opcode of your ringsig stuff because u never added parsing of your shit it to the ABE codebase;

What you just showed us is broken software that spits out gibberish and claim "this is anon".
Awesome try.


That's like feeding MP4 files to an old MP3 player....or even better sticking a Bluray into a DVD Player and calling it Anon.

Nice try tho - i am sure some people here fell for it.

SRy… unable to parse ur comment

nvm

dis how it works:


Shadow Tokens are like SDC only private. They are 1:1

SDC is a public token traceable and linkable on the blockchain
SDT is a private token untraceable and unlinkable on the blockchain
(props LiteBit)


so in-wallet u have the following send options

SDC>SDC (like BTC)
SDC>SDT (? )
SDT>SDT (like CN/MMR)
SDT>SDC (? )



examples:
SDT>SDT
http://www.shadowchain.info/tx/19edcfea81b9dd819f23d0b40db014ea172e5de8f0fa1a562c4569f824d4b347

SDT>SDC
http://www.shadowchain.info/tx/8ea055fdd5f5c4ce9dd687ab4842c783689c24c105f8271a373ab804fafb0aef

WHEN SDT (shadow tokens) r destroyed to craete SDC the SDC are birthed in a virgin addy on the chain, generated on the fly

[othe]

You obviously don't want to understand that your blockchain parser is broken/incomplete.


Fun Fact: The more the tokens are used, the weaker gets your PoS chain security, and if the Tokens aren't widely used they are useless for anonymity. Find the flaw.

[P3RS3US]

You obviously don't want to understand that your blockchain parser is broken/incomplete.


Fun Fact: The more the tokens are used, the weaker gets your PoS chain security, and if the Tokens aren't widely used they are useless for anonymity. Find the flaw.

blockchain parser is broken/incomplete.? I'll wait 4 dasource to wake up… I doubt very much it is. Waiting 4 Dev comment.

The more the tokens are used, the weaker gets your PoS chain security

there r plenty of SDC in the system:


http://shadowchain.info/stats/shadow.php

[rustynailer]

Smooth, you have stated that a considerable amount of work has gone into SDC, yet you still call it a scam. 

And where and who are all these SDC pumpers you keep talking about, SDC is at .05 US.  There are no pump groups in Shadow, which cant be said about Monero.  And the biggest pumper around here is you.

Instead of being on here 24 hours a day, why dont you go and build a working windows wallet that we can use for anon.  And when your so called tech catches up to SDC then you can come back.

Now take your insults and GTFO.

[smooth]

Smooth, you have stated that a considerable amount of work has gone into SDC, yet you still call it a scam.  

True and true. I explained further on this thread. There is a brand of scam that involves cloning something with no substance and then pumping it (for example several hundred alts). There is another brand of scam that involves doing some development and then promoting it in an aggressive and deliberately misleading and deceptive way (for example SDC or BCN, although BCN's substantive contribution to cryptotechnology was vastly more than SDCs).

And where and who are all these SDC pumpers you keep talking about

All over this damn forum. For example, there was a recently thread about "DRK vs. XMR". The SDC pumpers couldn't read the subject though, and decided that was a good place to start spewing the nonsense about tokens and zero knowledge and "not a copy of cryptonote" all the rest.

SDC is at .05 US

Ask yourself where it would be if it wasn't being relentlessly promoted.

[Pline]

Smooth, you have stated that a considerable amount of work has gone into SDC, yet you still call it a scam.  

True and true. I explained further on this thread. There is a brand of scam that involves cloning something with no substance and then pumping it (for example several hundred alts). There is another brand of scam that involves doing some development and then promoting it in an aggressive and deliberately misleading and deceptive way (for example SDC or BCN, although BCN's substantive contribution to cryptotechnology was vastly more than SDCs).

And where and who are all these SDC pumpers you keep talking about

All over this damn forum. For example, there was a recently thread about "DRK vs. XMR". The SDC pumpers couldn't read the subject though, and decided that was a good place to start spewing the nonsense about tokens and zero knowledge and "not a copy of cryptonote" all the rest.

SDC is at .05 US

Ask yourself where it would be if it wasn't being relentlessly promoted.

So I suppose Monero would be the former type of scam, because its a copy and paste fork of cryptonote/bytecoin.  Please let us know when you get a good working GUI wallet.  Shadow wallet has you defeated.

[rustynailer]

Smooth, you have stated that a considerable amount of work has gone into SDC, yet you still call it a scam.  

True and true. I explained further on this thread. There is a brand of scam that involves cloning something with no substance and then pumping it (for example several hundred alts). There is another brand of scam that involves doing some development and then promoting it in an aggressive and deliberately misleading and deceptive way (for example SDC or BCN, although BCN's substantive contribution to cryptotechnology was vastly more than SDCs).

And where and who are all these SDC pumpers you keep talking about

All over this damn forum. For example, there was a recently thread about "DRK vs. XMR". The SDC pumpers couldn't read the subject though, and decided that was a good place to start spewing the nonsense about tokens and zero knowledge and "not a copy of cryptonote" all the rest.

SDC is at .05 US

Ask yourself where it would be if it wasn't being relentlessly promoted.

And what brand of scam is Monero?

The coin that gets relentlessly promoted is Monero, you and your buddies are all over this forum 24/7 and you have the nerve to accuse Shadow of that.  wtf

[smooth]

And what brand of scam is Monero?

Judge for yourself.

The coin that gets relentlessly promoted is Monero, you and your buddies are all over this forum 24/7 and you have the nerve to accuse Shadow of that.  wtf

In your rush to create a false moral equivalence, you dropped a few important words there. In particular "deceptive" and "misleading"

If I've said anything deceptive or misleading about Monero, please let me know so I can correct it.

[Pline]

And what brand of scam is Monero?

Just for yourself.

The coin that gets relentlessly promoted is Monero, you and your buddies are all over this forum 24/7 and you have the nerve to accuse Shadow of that.  wtf

In your rush to create a false moral equivalence, you dropped a few important words there. In particular "deceptive" and "misleading"

If I've said anything deceptive or misleading about Monero, please let me know so I can correct it.

I don't know if you said anything misleading about Monero, but you said misleading things about Shadow that is for sure.

[rustynailer]

And what brand of scam is Monero?

Judge for yourself.

The coin that gets relentlessly promoted is Monero, you and your buddies are all over this forum 24/7 and you have the nerve to accuse Shadow of that.  wtf

In your rush to create a false moral equivalence, you dropped a few important words there. In particular "deceptive" and "misleading"

If I've said anything deceptive or misleading about Monero, please let me know so I can correct it.

Okay I will add those words about you and your style.  You are deceptive and misleading as well as arrogant, ignorant, sly and narcissistic. 

[Automatic Monkey]

You obviously don't want to understand that your blockchain parser is broken/incomplete.


Fun Fact: The more the tokens are used, the weaker gets your PoS chain security, and if the Tokens aren't widely used they are useless for anonymity. Find the flaw.

One thing preventing that is the exchanges (so far) only use SDC. That may change, and there will probably be a market for private SDT/fiat exchange once the dark market people get busy with it.

The other thing is the rather high SDT transaction fee. It seems to me that the future of any coin depends on its transaction fee structure, be it PoS or PoW. SDC stakers receive those fees, and on top of the 2% inflation it's not something the large holders are going to give up by not converting their tokens back to SDC.

Either way I'm not too concerned about corruption of the blockchain of any PoS coin, because it would be irrational for a malicious actor to acquire enough coin to do something like this and then render his holdings worthless by attacking the blockchain.

[ffmad]

Smooth, you have stated that a considerable amount of work has gone into SDC, yet you still call it a scam.  

True and true. I explained further on this thread. There is a brand of scam that involves cloning something with no substance and then pumping it (for example several hundred alts). There is another brand of scam that involves doing some development and then promoting it in an aggressive and deliberately misleading and deceptive way (for example SDC or BCN, although BCN's substantive contribution to cryptotechnology was vastly more than SDCs).

You are completly wrong on that, please stop making false asumptions just based on your point of view. You should research more deeply into that, have you ever talked to Ryno or a Shadow developer ? Lot of false ideas on Shadow can be seen everywhere on this forum, but it's not making it reals.

For example I always thought that Monero had a bigger team than Shadow (because everyone says that) and weirdly at David presentation yesterday in Paris I discovered that Monero team is the same size as Shadow's (yes, real developers ^^").

I really hate this stupid fight between Monero and Shadow, I am the one who suggested to David to take part in yesterday fintech meetup in Paris to present Monero, I don't see the point in fighting like that. Monero is focusing more on the currency use when Shadow is looking more at the blockchain use. There is no reason to fight, we could help each other, that's what open-source projects are for  


p.s: For me it doesn't apply to DASH, which is looking more and more like a company owning a blockchain.
p.s.2: Yes, some SDC supporters are promoting the coin everywhere, because they've seen that this project is solid, but not enough recognized. It may be a bad communication move, but you should understand that, i've seen monero supporters doing that a lot on DRK threads.

[illodin]

1. You/drk fanboy started this convo by saying cryptographically secured anonymous transactions are flawed to which I responded.

I don't remember anyone saying it's flawed, just that it has risks that are different than the risks in off chain anonymity.

It was in another thread also below..

The problem is that while it might be very secure in terms of 'hiding' a transaction, cryptonote puts all its eggs in one basket - a totally centralised solution. Break the cryptonote algo and you've rendered the entire money supply useless with subsequent collapse of the whole financial system based around that currency.

Now tell me how is that any difference to what would happen to DRK if ECDSA was cracked? not only is the entire DRK money supply on the line but I can pull a list of 2000 public address to raid first
You cannot use one argument to suit DRK and then ignore the profound effect it has itself on DRK.

Imagine that some research lab or university or other party informs that they have or are close to having a math or technological breakthrough that will allow decrypting all or some of the current encryptions, and before they will release the math or tech they will release new improved cryptographic algorithms or suggest other algorithms that are resistant to the new technology.

DRK and BTC and any application that relies on now soon to be vulnerable cryptography can switch algorithms and the coins will be safe. It's not gonna happen in a way where all of a sudden anyone can download a decrypter or order a quantum computer from newegg and start moving coins from other people's accounts.

But encrypted sensitive data that is released out to the world in the past can't be made anymore safer. I'm not fudding, I believe everyone agrees the risk near term is very small, I'm just explaining the difference to you.

[smooth]

Smooth, you have stated that a considerable amount of work has gone into SDC, yet you still call it a scam.  

True and true. I explained further on this thread. There is a brand of scam that involves cloning something with no substance and then pumping it (for example several hundred alts). There is another brand of scam that involves doing some development and then promoting it in an aggressive and deliberately misleading and deceptive way (for example SDC or BCN, although BCN's substantive contribution to cryptotechnology was vastly more than SDCs).

You are completly wrong on that, please stop making false asumptions just based on your point of view.

They're not false assumptions and yes they are my point of view (as are all statements made here or anywhere that aren't deliberate lies). I don't expect anyone to give my point of view undue weight, however, people should do their own checking.

Whatever you may believe about the SDC project or the SDC developers, and indeed whatever work they have actually done or are doing, is irrelevant to the fact that aggressive and deliberately misleading and deceptive promotion that mischaracterizes and greatly exaggerates the technical merits of the SDC system is going on frequently on this forum.

I've already addressed some of the specific factually incorrect and misleading statements that are repeatedly made, not only in this thread but across many threads, again and again. But as I said, people should do their own research and not blindly believe what I say.

[P3RS3US]

Smooth, you have stated that a considerable amount of work has gone into SDC, yet you still call it a scam.  

True and true. I explained further on this thread. There is a brand of scam that involves cloning something with no substance and then pumping it (for example several hundred alts). There is another brand of scam that involves doing some development and then promoting it in an aggressive and deliberately misleading and deceptive way (for example SDC or BCN, although BCN's substantive contribution to cryptotechnology was vastly more than SDCs).

You are completly wrong on that, please stop making false asumptions just based on your point of view.

They're not false assumptions and yes they are my point of view (as are all statements made here or anywhere that aren't deliberate lies). I don't expect anyone to give my point of view undue weight, however, people should do their own checking.

Whatever you may believe about the SDC project or the SDC developers, and indeed whatever work they have actually done or are doing, is irrelevant to the fact that aggressive and deliberately misleading and deceptive promotion that mischaracterizes and greatly exaggerates the technical merits of the SDC system is going on frequently on this forum.

I've already addressed some of the specific factually incorrect and misleading statements that are repeatedly made, not only in this thread but across many threads, again and again. But as I said, people should do their own research and not blindly believe what I say.

1) deceptive promotion ?
Please quote some examples.

any "deceptive PR" may have just been a community member's mistake.
Do u assert The Shadow Team have deceived?


2) misleading statements that are repeatedly made ?
Please quote some examples.

[Automatic Monkey]

1. You/drk fanboy started this convo by saying cryptographically secured anonymous transactions are flawed to which I responded.

I don't remember anyone saying it's flawed, just that it has risks that are different than the risks in off chain anonymity.

It was in another thread also below..

The problem is that while it might be very secure in terms of 'hiding' a transaction, cryptonote puts all its eggs in one basket - a totally centralised solution. Break the cryptonote algo and you've rendered the entire money supply useless with subsequent collapse of the whole financial system based around that currency.

Now tell me how is that any difference to what would happen to DRK if ECDSA was cracked? not only is the entire DRK money supply on the line but I can pull a list of 2000 public address to raid first
You cannot use one argument to suit DRK and then ignore the profound effect it has itself on DRK.

Imagine that some research lab or university or other party informs that they have or are close to having a math or technological breakthrough that will allow decrypting all or some of the current encryptions, and before they will release the math or tech they will release new improved cryptographic algorithms or suggest other algorithms that are resistant to the new technology.

DRK and BTC and any application that relies on now soon to be vulnerable cryptography can switch algorithms and the coins will be safe. It's not gonna happen in a way where all of a sudden anyone can download a decrypter or order a quantum computer from newegg and start moving coins from other people's accounts.

But encrypted sensitive data that is released out to the world in the past can't be made anymore safer. I'm not fudding, I believe everyone agrees the risk near term is very small, I'm just explaining the difference to you.

It couldn't be a math breakthrough, the mathematical unsolvability is proven. It would be on the order of discovering the last digit of pi.

Tech is a different story, it would probably require something moving at faster than c and it's unknown if quantum computing can accomplish that. But a method that could do this could just as easily crack any private key (even SUPERMAN's!), and the whole world would look very different the next day. So we're all screwed then.

[David Latapie]

True and true. I explained further on this thread. There is a brand of scam that involves cloning something with no substance and then pumping it (for example several hundred alts). There is another brand of scam that involves doing some development and then promoting it in an aggressive and deliberately misleading and deceptive way (for example SDC or BCN, although BCN's substantive contribution to cryptotechnology was vastly more than SDCs).

You are completly wrong on that, please stop making false asumptions just based on your point of view. You should research more deeply into that, have you ever talked to Ryno or a Shadow developer ? Lot of false ideas on Shadow can be seen everywhere on this forum, but it's not making it reals.

For example I always thought that Monero had a bigger team than Shadow (because everyone says that) and weirdly at David presentation yesterday in Paris I discovered that Monero team is the same size as Shadow's (yes, real developers ^^").

I really hate this stupid fight between Monero and Shadow, I am the one who suggested to David to take part in yesterday fintech meetup in Paris to present Monero, I don't see the point in fighting like that. Monero is focusing more on the currency use when Shadow is looking more at the blockchain use. There is no reason to fight, we could help each other, that's what open-source projects are for  


p.s: For me it doesn't apply to DASH, which is looking more and more like a company owning a blockchain.
p.s.2: Yes, some SDC supporters are promoting the coin everywhere, because they've seen that this project is solid, but not enough recognized. It may be a bad communication move, but you should understand that, i've seen monero supporters doing that a lot on DRK threads.

I confirm that I have excellent relations with ffmad and it is thank to him that I was able to make a lasting (and positive) impression on both the audience and the organisator yesterday.

I'm all about burying the hatchet, but this requires all to work on this (XMR fans or SDC fans.
- stop using derogative terms
- get rid of fanboys (reminder fanboy != fan)
- recognize that people (and project) change and that what you are doing now matters more than what you did in the past. Jimmy Wales or in France Xavier Niel made money with porn. Now they run Wikipedia and the most disruptive French ISP. Elon Musk was Paypal; now he is SpaceX and Tesla Motors.
- be serious in willing to cooperate. This means changing your mind, understanding that some things are not technically feasible and move to those wich are.
- learn from your mistakes, other's mistakes and other's successes
- with great powers come great responsabilities. Dev lead by example. If they don't intervene, someone else (most probably a fanboy) will do. And this sucks. If dev don't want to intervene, then someone entrusted and willing to deal with human relationship shall step in. AFAIK, ffmad is this person.

And yes, I'm tired of this too. I really only know ffmad on SDC and he is a great guy. Sure, he has to improve his spoken performance (:-)) but ihe is well-mannered,  devoted, genuinely interested. A lot of people in crypto should learn from him. Yes, I'm biased because we happen to live i the same city and to meet often but this exactly what you should hink about; we have the opportunity to have very-large-bandwith interactions (IRL meetings). This helps. You should try it sometimes.

[smooth]

1) deceptive promotion ?
Please quote some examples.

I'm not going to repeat. Reread my previous posts.

any "deceptive PR" may have just been a community member's mistake.
Do u assert The Shadow Team have deceived?

As an outside observer, particularly given the existence of sock puppets, etc. it is impossible to determine who is saying what. Furthermore I don't keep track of who is The Shadow Team nor do I particularly care.

If people are pumping and spamming and posting incorrect and misleading hype about a coin, the coin is being hyped in a scammish manner. One account that certainly does this is Pline, and I know he is being deliberately misleading because I've discussed these issues with him before, yet he continues doing it.

Or take a look at the DRK vs. XMR thread where SDC was completely off topic, yet repeatedly spammed.

I don't know if he is "The Shadow Team" but he's certainly active on the SDC thread as a supporter so I'll count him as one of "you guys" (as opposed to some random troll who pretends to support something in an obnoxious or misleading manner in order to discredit it; if that were happening to SDC I would support you on that, but that's not what is happening).

Beyond that distinction, I don't care who is The Shadow Team and who isn't, and neither do the people that SDC pumpers are trying to get to buy their crap when the spew hype and spam all over the place.

2) misleading statements that are repeatedly made ?
Please quote some examples.

Again, reread my previous posts.

If you want to clean up SDC's act, then I support you and your efforts. If you want to continue to argue over the hyped and spammed crap that usually comes out of SDC, then fuck you too. You may be a great guy according to David Latapie, but if you're defending liars, pumpers, and scammers then you are a scammer too.

[illodin]

But a method that could do this could just as easily crack any private key (even SUPERMAN's!), and the whole world would look very different the next day. So we're all screwed then.

I suspect it's not gonna happen overnight. There will be time to adapt. Likely many years.

[rynomster]

There is allot of immaturity in the crypto space, but if we all work together, instead of against each other, the technology will start moving forward way quicker

Thanks David for a great post.

Trolls and spammers are attracting negativity to the space, which is counter-productive.

I think its best we all get educated, instead of listening to what people say on the interwebz