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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3897431 times)
kokojie
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May 20, 2013, 02:48:50 AM
 #5261

I think ASICMINER is the greatest Bitcoin investment at the moment, but I also think that the prices are too high right now to invest more than a couple of shares with some risk.

About hedging, shareholders can do it on their own with other ASIC companies. I sold about 1/4 of my shares very high yesterday to hedge the risk and buy BASIC-MINING shares with the proceeds. They have an AVALON batch 2 pending delivery and another batch 3 order on the way so I think if you are looking of another mining security with a good potential, that is not overvalued right now, it is worth making it some % of your portofolio on btct.co. And there are others, too.

Anyway, it's really nice to see that stock price above 2, and I will hold most of my shares for sure. I just wouldn't buy more at the current price. But I wouldn't call you silly if you did Wink

Agree with hedging.  To build on what you said, here is another one of many ways of hedging.  That is to write covered calls at BTC-TC.  A covered call will reduce your purchase cost, therefore reducing your capital at risk.  Hedging partially.

Another way of hedging is to figure out ASICminer stock beta, and purchase a security that has a beta value completely opposite of ASICminer share.  Suppose ASICminer share has beta of 1 in relation to BTC/USD, then purchase a security of -1 will complete the hedging.

Hedging is done when you achieve a beta neutral status or a net beta equals zero in regards to a basket of securities.  With beta neutral, the only way *not* to profit is having a static market.  A static market is no shares changed hands and no share price movement.  Static market is impossible given BTC's volatility.

"Diversification is a protection for ignorance, It makes very little sense for those who know what they're doing." - Warren Buffet

You are hedging by selling shares in an immensely profitable company, that is light years ahead of its competition. For shares in a company that have  no significant asic hardware yet, with a risk profile 10X higher than AM, and P/E 10 times lower than AM?

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Mausini
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May 20, 2013, 03:09:50 AM
 #5262

I think ASICMINER is the greatest Bitcoin investment at the moment, but I also think that the prices are too high right now to invest more than a couple of shares with some risk.

About hedging, shareholders can do it on their own with other ASIC companies. I sold about 1/4 of my shares very high yesterday to hedge the risk and buy BASIC-MINING shares with the proceeds. They have an AVALON batch 2 pending delivery and another batch 3 order on the way so I think if you are looking of another mining security with a good potential, that is not overvalued right now, it is worth making it some % of your portofolio on btct.co. And there are others, too.

Anyway, it's really nice to see that stock price above 2, and I will hold most of my shares for sure. I just wouldn't buy more at the current price. But I wouldn't call you silly if you did Wink

Agree with hedging.  To build on what you said, here is another one of many ways of hedging.  That is to write covered calls at BTC-TC.  A covered call will reduce your purchase cost, therefore reducing your capital at risk.  Hedging partially.

Another way of hedging is to figure out ASICminer stock beta, and purchase a security that has a beta value completely opposite of ASICminer share.  Suppose ASICminer share has beta of 1 in relation to BTC/USD, then purchase a security of -1 will complete the hedging.

Hedging is done when you achieve a beta neutral status or a net beta equals zero in regards to a basket of securities.  With beta neutral, the only way *not* to profit is having a static market.  A static market is no shares changed hands and no share price movement.  Static market is impossible given BTC's volatility.

"Diversification is a protection for ignorance, It makes very little sense for those who know what they're doing." - Warren Buffet

You are hedging by selling shares in an immensely profitable company, that is light years ahead of its competition. For shares in a company that have  no significant asic hardware yet, with a risk profile 10X higher than AM, and P/E 10 times lower than AM?

Exactly. You would need complementary securities to diversify. Current reality is, there is none. Try putting your BTC in these other mining bonds or whatever. You could either just invest them in lollipops.
Franktank
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May 20, 2013, 03:14:31 AM
 #5263

Exactly. You would need complementary securities to diversify. Current reality is, there is none. Try putting your BTC in these other mining bonds or whatever. You could either just invest them in lollipops.

vortex1878
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May 20, 2013, 03:36:31 AM
 #5264

Dear friedcat,

I do appreciate all your work but please answer the following:

Where are we hashing and at what rate atm? If solo, please explain what is going on.

How are the future deployment plans progressing? You promised a lot per week. What is going on, please?

How many Blades were sold? How many USB thingies were sold?

Why are your "updates" not answering questions everybody would like to be answered (no rocket science)?

You are running a billion company that a lot of people are trusting in (incl. myself).

Where are the financial statements you had promised??

At this scale you HAVE TO provide financial data or people will jump off.

I really do not understand how you think a two-liner is sufficient as a weekly update.

Also I do not understand how other shareholders shut up all the time, and do not ask for more.

I myself have a considerable amount invested in ASICMINER. If this attitude of ASICMINER continues, I will sell it all off.

vortex1878

stripykitteh
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May 20, 2013, 03:37:22 AM
 #5265

At the risk of turning this into the AM speculation thread, the large volume from auctions this week is I suspect causing a lot of volatility to the AM-PT price. A couple of times I've considered whether doing a quick bit of arbitrage selling some PTs to participate in the auctions would be a good idea, then the share price wiggles in the opposite direction to what I think it will do next. Meh, I'm too old and not smart enough to be a day trader.

:grabs bag of popcorn to watch Wink

I don't like signature campaigns.
stripykitteh
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May 20, 2013, 03:42:16 AM
 #5266


I really do not understand how you think a two-liner is sufficient as a weekly update.

Also I do not understand how other shareholders shut up all the time, and do not ask for more.

I myself have a considerable amount invested in ASICMINER. If this attitude of ASICMINER continues, I will sell it all off.


Dude, I don't know if you are an early stage investor or not - you don't sound like it. I'm not either, btw. But I have read everything friedcat has ever written on this forum. Go and read it and you'll know why the early stage investors don't harass him for information.

I don't like signature campaigns.
kokojie
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May 20, 2013, 03:46:28 AM
 #5267

Dear friedcat,

I do appreciate all your work but please answer the following:

Where are we hashing and at what rate atm? If solo, please explain what is going on.

How are the future deployment plans progressing? You promised a lot per week. What is going on, please?

How many Blades were sold? How many USB thingies were sold?

Why are your "updates" not answering questions everybody would like to be answered (no rocket science)?

You are running a billion company that a lot of people are trusting in (incl. myself).

Where are the financial statements you had promised??

At this scale you HAVE TO provide financial data or people will jump off.

I really do not understand how you think a two-liner is sufficient as a weekly update.

Also I do not understand how other shareholders shut up all the time, and do not ask for more.

I myself have a considerable amount invested in ASICMINER. If this attitude of ASICMINER continues, I will sell it all off.

vortex1878



Even public companies do not provide weekly updates, they give quarterly reports.

btc: 15sFnThw58hiGHYXyUAasgfauifTEB1ZF6
Mausini
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May 20, 2013, 03:47:15 AM
 #5268

Dear friedcat,

I do appreciate all your work but please answer the following:

Where are we hashing and at what rate atm? If solo, please explain what is going on.

How are the future deployment plans progressing? You promised a lot per week. What is going on, please?

How many Blades were sold? How many USB thingies were sold?

Why are your "updates" not answering questions everybody would like to be answered (no rocket science)?

You are running a billion company that a lot of people are trusting in (incl. myself).

Where are the financial statements you had promised??

At this scale you HAVE TO provide financial data or people will jump off.

I really do not understand how you think a two-liner is sufficient as a weekly update.

Also I do not understand how other shareholders shut up all the time, and do not ask for more.

I myself have a considerable amount invested in ASICMINER. If this attitude of ASICMINER continues, I will sell it all off.

vortex1878



Friedcat does not care if you sell your shares. If you didnt get that, you shouldnt be invested at all!!! I suggest you read a little more.
vortex1878
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May 20, 2013, 04:00:10 AM
 #5269


I really do not understand how you think a two-liner is sufficient as a weekly update.

Also I do not understand how other shareholders shut up all the time, and do not ask for more.

I myself have a considerable amount invested in ASICMINER. If this attitude of ASICMINER continues, I will sell it all off.


Dude, I don't know if you are an early stage investor or not - you don't sound like it. I'm not either, btw. But I have read everything friedcat has ever written on this forum. Go and read it and you'll know why the early stage investors don't harass him for information.

I do not harrass friedcat at all. I have read it all. His work is unbelievably amazing. I could not be more thankful for his awesome work.
My point is that at this scale he owes us a bit more than a few lines of update a week.

How many shares do you own that you think you are enabled to speak up here?
matt4054
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May 20, 2013, 04:17:24 AM
 #5270

This isn't a hedge at all, but diversifying after a large run up.  This happens to be a popular topic currently at The Motley Fool in the 3D, Tesla and Netflix forums, and here was a post someone there pointed out. http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2008/02/01/the-greatest-secret-of-all.aspx

Now I hold ASICMINER and bASIC-MINNING as well as MININGCO.ETF to spread my exposure out, but I have no plans of selling anything, my ASICMINER shares are only up about 200%, so far from what many others have in gains.  Anyway, you have a couple of possible outcomes, you took some money off the table and put that to work in something else, for you to actually be right, not only does bASIC-MINNING have to rise, but it has to rise faster than ACISMINER, which you feel is going to pull back, only time will tell, but betting against momentum is not a good bet.

Yes of course, ASICMINER is the most profitable. But what if something very bad happens to ASICMINER? I don't want to lose 100% if that happens. Neither do you, so you spread your exposure out as you say. And so did I. Maybe "hedging" is not the right word, maybe it's just diversifying, call it whatever you want.

I did some research among the other mining securities on the market, and BASIC-MINING appeared to be the most promising investment, given the imminent shipping of AVALON batch #2, and #3 coming probably just 1-2 month behind. I was already holding some shares of them in the past, and managed to sell them with a profit, to buy more AM shares on the rise. There are nice dividends coming in a few days with the first AVALON shipment, it will be interesting to compare the 30d yield with AM's.

There are other securities for batch #3 but I think BASIC-MINING is currently the only with a pending delivery from batch #2, and once the delivery has been confirmed I expect to see the stock price rise at least 10%-20%. If you know better investments in BTC that are *not* ASICMINER (for those who want to diversify like me), I would like to hear about them too.
Eric Muyser
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May 20, 2013, 04:19:13 AM
 #5271

I do not harrass friedcat at all. I have read it all. His work is unbelievably amazing. I could not be more thankful for his awesome work.
My point is that at this scale he owes us a bit more than a few lines of update a week.

How many shares do you own that you think you are enabled to speak up here?

Something wanted is not something owed.

Let's talk about shares and reality.

He doesn't owe anything until the majority of share holders agree upon it. You would have to be a majority holder or there be a petition. Otherwise, any information divulged is courtesy on his part.

Petitioning for more information may seem crazy and that information should be obvious, but in reality it seems the information out there and friedcat himself are satisfactory. Thus, why would one go through the action to do work that is not in demand?

@EricMuyser | EricMuyser.com | OTC - "Defeat is a state of mind; no one is ever defeated until defeat has been accepted as a reality" - Bruce Lee
JaredR26
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May 20, 2013, 04:19:30 AM
 #5272


I really do not understand how you think a two-liner is sufficient as a weekly update.

Also I do not understand how other shareholders shut up all the time, and do not ask for more.

I myself have a considerable amount invested in ASICMINER. If this attitude of ASICMINER continues, I will sell it all off.


Dude, I don't know if you are an early stage investor or not - you don't sound like it. I'm not either, btw. But I have read everything friedcat has ever written on this forum. Go and read it and you'll know why the early stage investors don't harass him for information.

I do not harrass friedcat at all. I have read it all. His work is unbelievably amazing. I could not be more thankful for his awesome work.
My point is that at this scale he owes us a bit more than a few lines of update a week.

How many shares do you own that you think you are enabled to speak up here?

He doesn't owe you anything.  Friedcat will provide information as information is available.  In addition, any information that he posts publicly is information that the competition can use during their planning and strategy.

Also, I assure you that there are a lot of people both reading and responding here that have a lot more shares than you.  So get off your high horse and stop making demands.  You think YOU own a lot of shares?  Try the 240,000 that Friedcat & co owns.  It is far more important for HIM to make good decisions and bring hashpower online, and be accountable to himself, than it is for him to answer to you.
vortex1878
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May 20, 2013, 04:37:31 AM
 #5273


I really do not understand how you think a two-liner is sufficient as a weekly update.

Also I do not understand how other shareholders shut up all the time, and do not ask for more.

I myself have a considerable amount invested in ASICMINER. If this attitude of ASICMINER continues, I will sell it all off.


Dude, I don't know if you are an early stage investor or not - you don't sound like it. I'm not either, btw. But I have read everything friedcat has ever written on this forum. Go and read it and you'll know why the early stage investors don't harass him for information.

I do not harrass friedcat at all. I have read it all. His work is unbelievably amazing. I could not be more thankful for his awesome work.
My point is that at this scale he owes us a bit more than a few lines of update a week.

How many shares do you own that you think you are enabled to speak up here?

He doesn't owe you anything.  Friedcat will provide information as information is available.  In addition, any information that he posts publicly is information that the competition can use during their planning and strategy.

Also, I assure you that there are a lot of people both reading and responding here that have a lot more shares than you.  So get off your high horse and stop making demands.  You think YOU own a lot of shares?  Try the 240,000 that Friedcat & co owns.  It is far more important for HIM to make good decisions and bring hashpower online, and be accountable to himself, than it is for him to answer to you.

I do not need you donkey to tell me that i just own a fraction of all shares. A very tiny little fraction in fact.

Nevertheless I would like friedcat to answer my queries. I do agree that friedcat should not disclose any info that could be used by competitors.

But you are just a yay-sayer. I am not.
helixone
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May 20, 2013, 04:59:00 AM
 #5274


I really do not understand how you think a two-liner is sufficient as a weekly update.

Also I do not understand how other shareholders shut up all the time, and do not ask for more.

I myself have a considerable amount invested in ASICMINER. If this attitude of ASICMINER continues, I will sell it all off.


Dude, I don't know if you are an early stage investor or not - you don't sound like it. I'm not either, btw. But I have read everything friedcat has ever written on this forum. Go and read it and you'll know why the early stage investors don't harass him for information.

I do not harrass friedcat at all. I have read it all. His work is unbelievably amazing. I could not be more thankful for his awesome work.
My point is that at this scale he owes us a bit more than a few lines of update a week.

How many shares do you own that you think you are enabled to speak up here?

He doesn't owe you anything.  Friedcat will provide information as information is available.  In addition, any information that he posts publicly is information that the competition can use during their planning and strategy.

Also, I assure you that there are a lot of people both reading and responding here that have a lot more shares than you.  So get off your high horse and stop making demands.  You think YOU own a lot of shares?  Try the 240,000 that Friedcat & co owns.  It is far more important for HIM to make good decisions and bring hashpower online, and be accountable to himself, than it is for him to answer to you.

I do not need you donkey to tell me that i just own a fraction of all shares. A very tiny little fraction in fact.

Nevertheless I would like friedcat to answer my queries. I do agree that friedcat should not disclose any info that could be used by competitors.

But you are just a yay-sayer. I am not.

Calm down. Most experienced AM investors recognize that Friedcat is insanely busy, and are largely ok with his succinct updates when there isn't much to say. When he has something substantial to say he DOES go into detail. When things are largely unchanged from last update, they are short. Friedcat's time is limited. He's busy building and shipping USBs and blockeruptors, as well as coordinating the running of over 1500 blockeruptor boards for this company, as well as planning for the future, and processing all share transfers that happen OTC. (And everything else that goes along with all of the above.)

The man is incredible, and largely let's his work speak for itself.

I only hope that way down the road, if and when AM becomes a stable concern, that doesn't require as much of his time to run, and he comes up with other business ventures, he considers letting in public investors. (Guessing he won't though, since he will have way more than enough btc to build whatever company he wants.)

-helixone
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May 20, 2013, 05:00:02 AM
 #5275

What I know is he made a company 9 months ago at a 0.1 IPO and got it up to the present market price per share
Has executed his strategy well and has done an excellent job at delivering solid quality products
I make inquiries might even take notes now and then and pose the occasional question or inquiry, but I have trust in the current management and don't ask them to micromanage everyday affairs. If they are busy making good products and developing and improving their products instead of tracking this thread daily that's fine by me
That said I do enjoy discussion so I do keep track of this thread Smiley
And will pursue good questions but that's just my humble opinion
vortex1878
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May 20, 2013, 05:12:46 AM
 #5276


I really do not understand how you think a two-liner is sufficient as a weekly update.

Also I do not understand how other shareholders shut up all the time, and do not ask for more.

I myself have a considerable amount invested in ASICMINER. If this attitude of ASICMINER continues, I will sell it all off.


Dude, I don't know if you are an early stage investor or not - you don't sound like it. I'm not either, btw. But I have read everything friedcat has ever written on this forum. Go and read it and you'll know why the early stage investors don't harass him for information.

I do not harrass friedcat at all. I have read it all. His work is unbelievably amazing. I could not be more thankful for his awesome work.
My point is that at this scale he owes us a bit more than a few lines of update a week.

How many shares do you own that you think you are enabled to speak up here?

He doesn't owe you anything.  Friedcat will provide information as information is available.  In addition, any information that he posts publicly is information that the competition can use during their planning and strategy.

Also, I assure you that there are a lot of people both reading and responding here that have a lot more shares than you.  So get off your high horse and stop making demands.  You think YOU own a lot of shares?  Try the 240,000 that Friedcat & co owns.  It is far more important for HIM to make good decisions and bring hashpower online, and be accountable to himself, than it is for him to answer to you.

I do not need you donkey to tell me that i just own a fraction of all shares. A very tiny little fraction in fact.

Nevertheless I would like friedcat to answer my queries. I do agree that friedcat should not disclose any info that could be used by competitors.

But you are just a yay-sayer. I am not.

Calm down. Most experienced AM investors recognize that Friedcat is insanely busy, and are largely ok with his succinct updates when there isn't much to say. When he has something substantial to say he DOES go into detail. When things are largely unchanged from last update, they are short. Friedcat's time is limited. He's busy building and shipping USBs and blockeruptors, as well as coordinating the running of over 1500 blockeruptor boards for this company, as well as planning for the future, and processing all share transfers that happen OTC. (And everything else that goes along with all of the above.)

The man is incredible, and largely let's his work speak for itself.

I only hope that way down the road, if and when AM becomes a stable concern, that doesn't require as much of his time to run, and he comes up with other business ventures, he considers letting in public investors. (Guessing he won't though, since he will have way more than enough btc to build whatever company he wants.)

-helixone

I am pretty chilled. I did not attack friedcat at all. I do agree with everything above, and never stated anything contrary.
Maybe you should all calm down. As soon as somebody states a little hint against your cash cow, you freak out.
Btw I am all in. But you are just mongos...
Friedcat, please answer my questions.
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May 20, 2013, 05:22:13 AM
 #5277

I am pretty chilled. I did not attack friedcat at all. I do agree with everything above, and never stated anything contrary.
Maybe you should all calm down. As soon as somebody states a little hint against your cash cow, you freak out.
Btw I am all in. But you are just mongos...
Friedcat, please answer my questions.

I think everyone who responded was pretty nice to you, and we get called names in return. OK Roll Eyes

I don't like signature campaigns.
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May 20, 2013, 05:28:50 AM
 #5278

I am pretty chilled. I did not attack friedcat at all. I do agree with everything above, and never stated anything contrary.
Maybe you should all calm down. As soon as somebody states a little hint against your cash cow, you freak out.
Btw I am all in. But you are just mongos...
Friedcat, please answer my questions.

I think everyone who responded was pretty nice to you, and we get called names in return. OK Roll Eyes

Maybe I got carried away because I got just a few shares and a very small *****. Sorry. Peace.
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May 20, 2013, 05:52:40 AM
 #5279

I am pretty chilled. I did not attack friedcat at all. I do agree with everything above, and never stated anything contrary.
Maybe you should all calm down. As soon as somebody states a little hint against your cash cow, you freak out.
Btw I am all in. But you are just mongos...
Friedcat, please answer my questions.

I think everyone who responded was pretty nice to you, and we get called names in return. OK Roll Eyes

Maybe I got carried away because I got just a few shares and a very small *****. Sorry. Peace.

It's cool brah. Congrats on your purchase.

If you're interested in the strategy, have you seen this?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=138443.0

Notice the dates. Might make you feel better about what's happening at the moment.

I don't like signature campaigns.
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May 20, 2013, 06:07:11 AM
 #5280


"Diversification is a protection for ignorance, It makes very little sense for those who know what they're doing." - Warren Buffet

Don't know if this is Warren Buffet supporting the idea of diversification, or sarcasm.  Let's take a look at what Warren has as of Dec 21, 2012.

1.) Wells Fargo & Co ........ financial
2.) Coca Cola Co .... consumer
3.) International Business Machines .... tech company
4.) American Express Co .... financial
5.) Procter & Gamble Co .... consumer goods
6.) Wal Mart Stores Inc .... department stores
7.) U S Bancorp Del ... financial
8.) Directv ... cable tv service
9.) Davita Inc ... health care
10.) Phillips 66 ... oil and gas
11) KFT ... food
12) INTC .... tech
13) Viacom ... cable tv service
14) Ingersol Rand ... industrial goods
15) National Oil Well Varco  ... oil and gas
16) Johnson and Johnson ... drug
etc.


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