ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[nexus 6]

Preview of ASICMINER's forum ads:

Love this add. Seems very well oriented. Who did it? You, TAT?

Not me this time, twas the man himself, Friedcat.

Looks like he is capable as well in marketing.  I dont know if finally there is a workgroup, separate arm, or something similar, as was said.  If yes, i would like join.

[iCEBREAKER]

USB blockerupters are overpriced by every metric.  

*triple facepalm*

The only metric that matters is Quantity Demanded at the current price (hint: your personal opinion is not a metric).  Is there a surplus of USB blockerupters because they are "overpriced?"  No, there is not.

In fact, there is a shortage.  So rather than "overpriced" they are actually underpriced.  This isn't even college Econ; it's high school non-honors remedial economics for poets.

Please mind your P's and Q's; poor/cheap economic illiterates should not post in the securities section.  There's enough noise here already.  

[dhenson]

USB blockerupters are overpriced by every metric.  

*triple facepalm*

The only metric that matters is Quantity Demanded at the current price (hint: your personal opinion is not a metric).  Is there a surplus of USB blockerupters because they are "overpriced?"  No, there is not.

In fact, there is a shortage.  So rather than "overpriced" they are actually underpriced.  This isn't even college Econ; it's high school non-honors remedial economics for poets.

Please mind your P's and Q's; poor/cheap economic illiterates should not post in the securities section.  There's enough noise here already.  

*sigh* Lets not start personal attacks based on a misunderstanding.

Your response completely ignores ROI.  And how is there not a surplus? Last I heard, friedcat was sitting on 6,000 units.

I'm not contending that Asicminer should be selling cheaper.  I think they are maximizing profits and that is a good thing.  What I'm saying is that at the current price point, someone would be making a mistake to purchase one (if ROI is in their decision making process).  If people are willing to throw their money at Asicminer then more power to them.

[Factory]

It shows that we were way ahead last week, compared to the previous week, but at about the same level this week compared to last week.

It also shows the interesting effect of variance, when comparing this weeks increase in total mining rewards with last week's. We can see it went faster last week for a period (the red line rises faster than the blue line), but that current week's mined BTC caught up with it along the way, which it should if we're mining at the same speed. In fact, if we're mining at the same speed, the lines might divert for a bit, but should always converge at some point, which is what we're seeing.

Good call about adding this chart! It's very useful for investors who'd like to know how we're doing compared to last week.

I think it is quite impressive to see ASICMINER handle the 28% jump in difficulty so well. So long as management can continue to deploy additional mining hardware, income from mining will remain at a very attractive level.

[lophie]

USB blockerupters are overpriced by every metric.  

*triple facepalm*

The only metric that matters is Quantity Demanded at the current price (hint: your personal opinion is not a metric).  Is there a surplus of USB blockerupters because they are "overpriced?"  No, there is not.

In fact, there is a shortage.  So rather than "overpriced" they are actually underpriced.  This isn't even college Econ; it's high school non-honors remedial economics for poets.

Please mind your P's and Q's; poor/cheap economic illiterates should not post in the securities section.  There's enough noise here already.  

*sigh* Lets not start personal attacks based on a misunderstanding.

Your response completely ignores ROI.  And how is there not a surplus? Last I heard, friedcat was sitting on 6,000 units.

I'm not contending that Asicminer should be selling cheaper.  I think they are maximizing profits and that is a good thing.  What I'm saying is that at the current price point, someone would be making a mistake to purchase one (if ROI is in their decision making process).  If people are willing to throw their money at Asicminer then more power to them.

He did not state that there is a surplus, His exact statement was 'Is there a surplus of USB blockerupters because they are "overpriced?"  No, there is not.'. If this statement was to be debated, I think it would make sense to use the argument that we relatively started to reach a point were we should take advantage of the higher demand at a lower price now before the competitors force us to sell at even lower prices to have any demand at all.

His argument overlooked ROI because it is a different metric and you can call it a different plane since his argument was consolidated in the basics of economics and markets so he did not dive into the nature of the good we are selling being used to generate profit.

I am not pretending to be all knowledgeable in economics I just started studying it on my own for about two years now. But even in my humble opinion, Please stop embarrassing yourself. This is the time to go and do your homework, Especially if you are not trolling and really willing to learn something out of this discussion.

[iCEBREAKER]

*sigh* Lets not start personal attacks based on a misunderstanding.

Your response completely ignores ROI.  And how is there not a surplus? Last I heard, friedcat was sitting on 6,000 units.

I'm not contending that Asicminer should be selling cheaper.  I think they are maximizing profits and that is a good thing.  What I'm saying is that at the current price point, someone would be making a mistake to purchase one (if ROI is in their decision making process).  If people are willing to throw their money at Asicminer then more power to them.

Accusing me of "misunderstanding" is a personal attack.  I understand perfectly your purported solely relevant metric of ROI; it's been debated relentlessly on this forum for months.  WTF makes you think I (and AM's many, many customers) somehow missed, or didn't comprehend, the ROI discussion?  

That's insulting in exactly the same way you are insulting the hundreds of willing AM customers who voluntarily (and enthusiastically) have been buying truckoads of their hardware, by second-guessing the desirability of those transactions and making accusations of less than fully-informed decisions.

You and I don't get to make the call about what is or isn't "overpriced."  The market, using more information available to either of us, makes that determination.

AM is not having any difficulty selling hardware at their current price point.  Therefore their products are in shortage, or price equilibrium at best.

ROI is not in any way related to the question of pricing.  Perhaps others know things about future difficulty or block/transaction rewards we do not; perhaps others wish to own a piece of history in the form of first-gen AM hardware.  It's not our money, not our business, and not our place to judge who is or isn't "throwing their money at AM" (another insult).

What you are really saying is 'I am too poor and/or too cheap and/or too scared to buy AM hardware.  I am jealous of those who have more money than I do and envy, to the point of resentment, their unquestionably gutsy decision to take a risk.  Instead of being direct and honest about my mere personal opinion, I'll dress it up as some fancy kind of Economic Fact with a fig leaf of ROI to hide my naked butthurt.'

I'm not contending that Asicminer should be selling cheaper.  I think they are maximizing profits and that is a good thing.  

Well that's good.  There's hope for you yet!  Stick around Junior, and we'll get you up to speed in no time.  

[canth]

USB blockerupters are overpriced by every metric.  

*triple facepalm*

The only metric that matters is Quantity Demanded at the current price (hint: your personal opinion is not a metric).  Is there a surplus of USB blockerupters because they are "overpriced?"  No, there is not.

In fact, there is a shortage.  So rather than "overpriced" they are actually underpriced.  This isn't even college Econ; it's high school non-honors remedial economics for poets.

Please mind your P's and Q's; poor/cheap economic illiterates should not post in the securities section.  There's enough noise here already.  

+1 - Things are worth what customers are willing to pay. At this point, every manufacturer is selling their equipment at below market cost or the resale market on eBay with higher prices wouldn't exist.

[lophie]

*sigh* Lets not start personal attacks based on a misunderstanding.

Your response completely ignores ROI.  And how is there not a surplus? Last I heard, friedcat was sitting on 6,000 units.

I'm not contending that Asicminer should be selling cheaper.  I think they are maximizing profits and that is a good thing.  What I'm saying is that at the current price point, someone would be making a mistake to purchase one (if ROI is in their decision making process).  If people are willing to throw their money at Asicminer then more power to them.

Accusing me of "misunderstanding" is a personal attack.  I understand perfectly your purported solely relevant metric of ROI; it's been debated relentlessly on this forum for months.  WTF makes you think I (and AM's many, many customers) somehow missed, or didn't comprehend, the ROI discussion?  

That's insulting in exactly the same way you are insulting the hundreds of willing AM customers who voluntarily (and enthusiastically) have been buying truckoads of their hardware, by second-guessing the desirability of those transactions and making accusations of less than fully-informed decisions.

You and I don't get to make the call about what is or isn't "overpriced."  The market, using more information available to either of us, makes that determination.

AM is not having any difficulty selling hardware at their current price point.  Therefore their products are in shortage, or price equilibrium at best.

ROI is not in any way related to the question of pricing.  Perhaps others know things about future difficulty or block/transaction rewards we do not; perhaps others wish to own a piece of history in the form of first-gen AM hardware.  It's not our money, not our business, and not our place to judge who is or isn't "throwing their money at AM" (another insult).

What you are really saying is 'I am too poor and/or too cheap and/or too scared to buy AM hardware.  I am jealous of those who have more money than I do and envy, to the point of resentment, their unquestionably gutsy decision to take a risk.  Instead of being direct and honest about my mere personal opinion, I'll dress it up as some fancy kind of Economic Fact with a fig leaf of ROI to hide my naked butthurt.'

Jeez dude you got all that from what he wrote? I really did not so either I am visually impaired (and btw I really am), Or you just have alot of issues that you have to deal with!

[iCEBREAKER]

Jeez dude you got all that from what he wrote? I really did not so either I am visually impaired (and btw I really am), Or you just have alot of issues that you have to deal with!

It's called a "close reading."  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close_reading 

You aren't visually impaired, merely ignorant of literary criticism and rhetoric.  Don't worry, I'll teach you by example because I'm such a great guy!   

The issue I am dealing with is called economic illiteracy.  There's plenty of it everywhere, but I don't like seeing it here on my redoubt of sanity.   

[lophie]

You aren't visually impaired, merely ignorant of literary criticism and rhetoric.  Don't worry, I'll teach you by example because I'm such a great guy!  

Your crystal ball is definitely broken judging by my 7 years going on and forth in hospitals with two major operations on my corneas for both eyes. But you know, You know more obviously about everything.

ADDED: aaah sorry for being so slow and retarded you wanted to do your "close reading" thing on what I posted. I am sorry I don't do metaphors and being rhetoric when I want to express an exact piece of information like, "I think you are an utter idiot".

[iCEBREAKER]

Your crystal ball is definitely broken judging by my 7 years going on and forth in hospitals with two major operations on my corneas for both eyes. But you know, You know more obviously about everything.

Fair enough, I should have said "Your problem isn't visual impairment, it's ignorance of literary criticism and rhetoric" instead.

But yes, I do obviously know more about everything.  That's because (and why) I've been here a lot longer than you have.  

You obviously understand economics better than dhenson.  Aren't you sick of him and others bleating on about 'ZOMG I have made a subjective personal decision not to buy AM hardware; therefore it is overpriced in some kind of absolute, objective way and all who disagree are throwing wasted money at Friedcat?'

ADDED: aaah sorry for being so slow and retarded you wanted to do your "close reading" thing on what I posted. I am sorry I don't do metaphors and being rhetoric when I want to express an exact piece of information like, "I think you are an utter idiot".

"Metaphors?"  Who said anything about "metaphors?"  Not I.  Are you under the impression that close readings have something to do with them?  Looking for metaphors is one part of close reading, but I didn't explicate any from dhenson's uninformed utterances.

I can help you overcome your self-pity and visual impairment if you wish to learn more about linguistic analysis.  But if you are determined to remain proudly ignorant on the subject, you are beyond the scope of teachability.  Do you really want to be a perma-noob?   

[bitzox]

This isn't even college Econ; it's high school non-honors remedial economics for poets.

No disrespect or insult to anyone involved in this argument, but this made me laugh really hard...econ for poets haha.

[lophie]

The kind of people who entertain these questions:

Aren't you sick of him and others bleating on about 'ZOMG I have made a subjective personal decision not to buy AM hardware; therefore it is overpriced in some kind of absolute, objective way and all who disagree are throwing wasted money at Friedcat?'

Are the kind that thinks that:

yes, I do obviously know more about everything.  That's because (and why) I've been here a lot longer than you have.  

This particular point I bolded, Would be viciously hilarious to the ones around here who knows my real identity.

[Shasoudas]

Posted by: iCEBREAKER
Insert Quote
Quote from: lophie on Today at 06:30:07 PM

Aren't you sick of him and others bleating on about 'ZOMG I have made a subjective personal decision not to buy AM hardware; therefore it is overpriced in some kind of absolute, objective way and all who disagree are throwing wasted money at Friedcat?'

I am sick of the crap that is now filling up this thread, including this post right now. I do understand the replies that need to be made though, to push back the onslaught of ignorance and misinformed posts/FUD. Kudos to the guys trying to keep this thread "pure". Do as other people have done, and create alternate threads about matters not directly associated to ASICminer or discussed by friedcat in this thread. My somewhat worthless 2 shatoshi's.

Take your arguments elsewhere and just edit your posts to allow users to be redirected there to watch everyone measure they're Epeen. Don't clog this thread with unnecessary posts please.

Shas

[bitzox]

On an unrelated note, is everyone as excited as I am to see what tomorrows bitcoin Christmas will bring?

[runeks]

It shows that we were way ahead last week, compared to the previous week, but at about the same level this week compared to last week.

It also shows the interesting effect of variance, when comparing this weeks increase in total mining rewards with last week's. We can see it went faster last week for a period (the red line rises faster than the blue line), but that current week's mined BTC caught up with it along the way, which it should if we're mining at the same speed. In fact, if we're mining at the same speed, the lines might divert for a bit, but should always converge at some point, which is what we're seeing.

Good call about adding this chart! It's very useful for investors who'd like to know how we're doing compared to last week.

I think it is quite impressive to see ASICMINER handle the 28% jump in difficulty so well. So long as management can continue to deploy additional mining hardware, income from mining will remain at a very attractive level.

That's a good point. ASICMiner has had to increase its hash rate by 28% since the difficulty adjustment on June 5th in order to keep up the earnings, and it seems they indeed have done that.

Perhaps they really have ready-to-go blades just waiting to be deployed. Or perhaps they specifically expected the large difficulty increase, and have a portion set aside to handle difficulty increases.

[iCEBREAKER]

This isn't even college Econ; it's high school non-honors remedial economics for poets.

No disrespect or insult to anyone involved in this argument, but this made me laugh really hard...econ for poets haha.

Thanks.  I would have said 'econ for athletes' but that would have been just plain mean.   

[Factory]

Perhaps they really have ready-to-go blades just waiting to be deployed. Or perhaps they specifically expected the large difficulty increase, and have a portion set aside to handle difficulty increases.

While it is unknown exactly how many are fully constructed, we do know that the company has already paid for a very large amount of mining equipment that is yet to be deployed or sold. The change in total ASICMINER hashrate is likely based on the following:

• 1. How quickly equipment can be produced.

While it is impressive how quickly ASICMINER has been able to deliver- there are a variety of issues that can cause delays in production or lesser yields. There have not been any major hiccups so far, but we must be mindful of the potential.

• 2. Buying demand from the public.

They can not continually deploy large amounts of equipment if there is reason to sell them. It seems that ASIC Miner has been able to meet buying demand well. Despite the strong sales, we should not be surprised by an eventual price reduction in both USBs and Blades- especially when we get closer to 2nd generation equipment. I really wish we would receive financial statements as well as any forward statements regarding R&D. I am very interested to see what ASICMINER's CapEx looks like. I believe this is where a major catalyst lies and not much has been said on the subject.

• 3. Change in the total network hashrate caused by other miners and the subsequent change in difficulty that leads to.

The company has been able to maintain over 20% of the network and looks set to stay in that area for the near future. It looks like they are doing small staggered equipment increases to maintain this level. One would think that they could achieve 25-30% of the network total for now, but it is always a fine dance with points 1 & 2 as well as the continual hunt to acquire adequate server space to operate the mining equipment, find capable people to maintain the equipment, and in general deal with the logistics of scaling up to such a large size. Greatly increasing the total hashrate is a very difficult task that leads to diminishing returns and lower margins- something that I'm sure they continue to evaluate.

[KarmaShark]

On an unrelated note, is everyone as excited as I am to see what tomorrows bitcoin Christmas will bring?

With less than 24hrs until that package comes down the chimney, speculation abounds. I have been studying this system on my own for the last few weeks in an attempt to understand fully how AM makes their money. Many other shareholders have taken this to another level and are tracking the companies mining and sales performances (given the visibility).

They keep scaling up the TH's vs. network difficulty and new kids showing up on the block (Avalon and the odd BFL loner), at this rate they seem poised to hold this position well into the Fall of this year. Exciting times mon!

[runeks]

I really wish we would receive financial statements as well as any forward statements regarding R&D. I am very interested to see what ASICMINER's CapEx looks like. I believe this is where a major catalyst lies and not much has been said on the subject.

Please send this question to whomever it is that is collecting questions for friedcat.

A Bitfountain board member posted in this thread some days ago, suggesting that we assemble questions for friedcat, since he doesn't have time to read through this thread (who can blame him!).

Then that person will remove duplicate questions, and pass them on to friedcat. I'm interesting in hearing about R&D, and just general 2nd generation ASIC information as well.