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Author Topic: GekkoScience BM1384 Project Development Discussion  (Read 143073 times)
sidehack
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March 24, 2015, 02:25:41 PM
 #201

I'm emailing Janet. Several folks told me I should go straight to Yoshi so I'll look into that.

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March 24, 2015, 02:27:50 PM
 #202

I'm emailing Janet. Several folks told me I should go straight to Yoshi so I'll look into that.
Maybe ask Marto who he was able to get his test chips from? He has gotten a lot from them (but his production chips came from Minersource)

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March 24, 2015, 02:29:23 PM
 #203

Are you talking Bitmain or Avalon? The guy talking from Avalon is xiangfu

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March 24, 2015, 02:40:52 PM
 #204

Are you talking Bitmain or Avalon? The guy talking from Avalon is xiangfu
Neither I am talking about the Owner of Technobit he takes chips and makes hardware and he has gotten a lot of test chips from Bitmain in the past, you may want to ask him who he went through.

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March 24, 2015, 02:53:47 PM
 #205

Yeah, I know Marto is the Technobit guy. I've not seen a Technobit product that had Bitmain chips on it. I have not actually seen any Technobit products personally, though we were supposed to have about 50 boards for hosting last August. I'd just as soon not do business with Technobit if I don't have to. I don't trust them at all.

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March 24, 2015, 03:22:29 PM
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Yeah, I know Marto is the Technobit guy. I've not seen a Technobit product that had Bitmain chips on it. I have not actually seen any Technobit products personally, though we were supposed to have about 50 boards for hosting last August. I'd just as soon not do business with Technobit if I don't have to. I don't trust them at all.
Makes sense, but yeah his Hex Minion is all based off the minion chip. I wouldn't suggest doing business with him either but I think he may know who to contact. His hardware is so complicated and a pain to get up and running it just isn't worth it.

On that note I know a Hex4 miner from Technobit and those Blackarrow chips need a CPU cooler that pushed 100 TWD each chip, this seems like the form factor and style your going with may not work for those.

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March 24, 2015, 03:31:12 PM
 #207

Yeah, using a CPU cooler makes zero sense for the chip style that everyone except Spondoolies uses. We likely won't be building any boards conducive to CPU coolers anytime soon.

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March 24, 2015, 03:45:54 PM
 #208

Yeah, using a CPU cooler makes zero sense for the chip style that everyone except Spondoolies uses. We likely won't be building any boards conducive to CPU coolers anytime soon.
So what would the plan for the Blackarrow chips be? Underclock the hell out of them and use a lot? That's the only thing I could think of.

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March 24, 2015, 03:56:26 PM
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Yeah, using a CPU cooler makes zero sense for the chip style that everyone except Spondoolies uses. We likely won't be building any boards conducive to CPU coolers anytime soon.
So what would the plan for the Blackarrow chips be? Underclock the hell out of them and use a lot? That's the only thing I could think of.

Probably to not use them.  They are obsolete and made by scammers.  I think when sidehack said "except spondoolies," he meant current gear.  There are a few larger chips like KNC from the past.

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sidehack
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March 24, 2015, 04:00:10 PM
 #210

Please RTFT before asking questions which have already been answered.

Minions are also BGA and require ~100A VRMs. We very likely will never design a miner around that type chip (which appears to rule out Spondoolies' gen3 chip) because it makes literally every step of the process unnecessarily complex. Complexity means added cost and also increases the odds of machine failure.

We have never expressed any interest in working with BlackArrow chips, anywhere, at all.

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March 24, 2015, 05:52:47 PM
 #211

Please RTFT before asking questions which have already been answered.

Minions are also BGA and require ~100A VRMs. We very likely will never design a miner around that type chip (which appears to rule out Spondoolies' gen3 chip) because it makes literally every step of the process unnecessarily complex. Complexity means added cost and also increases the odds of machine failure.

We have never expressed any interest in working with BlackArrow chips, anywhere, at all.
Sorry, I misinterpreted when you said you were having a hard time with your contact from Blackarrow on getting chips that you were trying to get this generation and not wait for the next one.

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March 24, 2015, 06:08:19 PM
 #212

I never said BlackArrow. I said Bitmain and Canaan-Creative (Avalon). You couldn't pay us enough to work with BlackArrow hardware at this point.

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March 24, 2015, 06:12:26 PM
 #213

I never said BlackArrow. I said Bitmain and Canaan-Creative (Avalon). You couldn't pay us enough to work with BlackArrow hardware at this point.
Oh that's what it was alright my bad, I must need a cup of coffee and that's great to hear I am not too happy BA, but Bitmain is great.

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March 25, 2015, 01:05:36 PM
 #214

So, looks like we'll be able to at least get a short run of about 1000 chips from Bitmain. The price is higher than I was hoping but still in the neighborhood of "reasonable" for a stick miner - which most of them will go on. We'll keep some for building probably ten TypeZero boards so we can send them out to some reputable tester/reviewers, and then have about 800 chips to put between one- and two-chip USB sticks. I've looked back over and verified all the breakout board PCB, so hopefully we'll be ordering a prototype batch of them today and have them in hand probably end of next week. Between now and then I'll run out a tentative stickminer PCB and get dimensions to heatsink people. Once the breakouts are populated and tested, we can finalize our stickminer design (having had a chance to find any problems with how we understand things to work) and get some test PCBs of them, and then finalize the TypeZero board and get test PCBs of it as well. We're probably looking at having stickminer prototypes in 3 weeks would be nice, but 4 is more likely.

So, question. If it's going to be about 5 weeks before we have a prototype TypeZero board, even if we ordered a bulk run of chips at that time (with 2 month leadtime before delivery) it'd be about 3.5 months before we had chips and boards in hand to start building. That puts us right around the time Bitmain will be announcing the next better chip. Would anyone buy the TypeZero Spec 1 board with BM1384 chips, or would we end up sitting on them and going broke? As soon as information is available for the new chip we can start designing for it instead, but we wouldn't have access to samples and prototype PCBs until later and it'd shift product availability back to maybe September instead of July.

Selling seconds 2Pacs for a friend's med bills - PM for details
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March 25, 2015, 01:10:48 PM
 #215

So, looks like we'll be able to at least get a short run of about 1000 chips from Bitmain. The price is higher than I was hoping but still in the neighborhood of "reasonable" for a stick miner - which most of them will go on. We'll keep some for building probably ten TypeZero boards so we can send them out to some reputable tester/reviewers, and then have about 800 chips to put between one- and two-chip USB sticks. I've looked back over and verified all the breakout board PCB, so hopefully we'll be ordering a prototype batch of them today and have them in hand probably end of next week. Between now and then I'll run out a tentative stickminer PCB and get dimensions to heatsink people. Once the breakouts are populated and tested, we can finalize our stickminer design (having had a chance to find any problems with how we understand things to work) and get some test PCBs of them, and then finalize the TypeZero board and get test PCBs of it as well. We're probably looking at having stickminer prototypes in 3 weeks would be nice, but 4 is more likely.

So, question. If it's going to be about 5 weeks before we have a prototype TypeZero board, even if we ordered a bulk run of chips at that time (with 2 month leadtime before delivery) it'd be about 3.5 months before we had chips and boards in hand to start building. That puts us right around the time Bitmain will be announcing the next better chip. Would anyone buy the TypeZero Spec 1 board with BM1384 chips, or would we end up sitting on them and going broke? As soon as information is available for the new chip we can start designing for it instead, but we wouldn't have access to samples and prototype PCBs until later and it'd shift product availability back to maybe September instead of July.
Have they given any indication that the new chip will have the same package and pinout as the existing chip?
sidehack
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March 25, 2015, 01:20:20 PM
 #216

No they haven't. All I've been told is [something something new chip in the future sometime maybe, redacted out of courtesy to Bitmain]. I would bet the comms are pretty similar to the BM1384, which was identical to the BM1382 as far as I can tell, but the pinouts and packages haven't yet been the same from one chip to the next so I don't expect them to do it again. Hopefully it wouldn't take long to adapt a functional BM1384 board to a BM1386 (or whatever) board if they don't change their IO protocols and voltages,  basically just redrawing footprints and rerouting some lines.

Selling seconds 2Pacs for a friend's med bills - PM for details
Currently in development - 20-120GH USB stick; 700GH 75W pod; 4TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
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March 25, 2015, 01:30:15 PM
 #217

No they haven't. All I've been told is S7 would be announced around July with the new "innovative and competetive chip" and that "right now we have no more info to the public". I would bet the comms are pretty similar to the BM1384, which was identical to the BM1382 as far as I can tell, but the pinouts and packages haven't yet been the same from one chip to the next so I don't expect them to do it again. Hopefully it wouldn't take long to adapt a functional BM1384 board to a BM1386 (or whatever) board if they don't change their IO protocols and voltages,  basically just redrawing footprints and rerouting some lines.

Then you can make some USB sticks, and make some return for the near future, I'm interested in the miners, but the questios is the cost of the unit.

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sidehack
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March 25, 2015, 01:37:40 PM
 #218

The cost per unit will be as low as we can make it. Sure we like having money, but we also like taking care of customers and home miners have spent too long getting shafted.

USB sticks are definitely a go. The question is whether we want to try to move on a TypeZero with BM1384, or wait the extra months for a BM1386(?) board instead. We'll probably be redesigning for the newer chip anyway, as soon as we're able. But will it be worth the time and investment to continue a 1384 design, at least for a single batch. I guess that's something we'll need to figure out over the next month or so that we're prototyping.

Selling seconds 2Pacs for a friend's med bills - PM for details
Currently in development - 20-120GH USB stick; 700GH 75W pod; 4TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
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March 25, 2015, 01:42:19 PM
 #219

The cost per unit will be as low as we can make it. Sure we like having money, but we also like taking care of customers and home miners have spent too long getting shafted.

USB sticks are definitely a go. The question is whether we want to try to move on a TypeZero with BM1384, or wait the extra months for a BM1386(?) board instead. We'll probably be redesigning for the newer chip anyway, as soon as we're able. But will it be worth the time and investment to continue a 1384 design, at least for a single batch. I guess that's something we'll need to figure out over the next month or so that we're prototyping.
Then made sticks with the samples you have, and sell it, if the tester are happy you can made more, but first we need your result test, at least you can wait for the new chips, or build stick until new chips landing. (I prefer the second option, but is IMHO, and doesn't my money).

Sorry with my very bad English

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March 25, 2015, 02:14:38 PM
 #220

Hey Sidehack

Me and VS3 are also looking to make a home miner.  Grin

Maybe we could consider buying chip together to get better price.

I already have price for Avalon A3222 and currently talking with Janet for Bitmain chip.

Let me know!  Wink

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