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Author Topic: GekkoScience BM1384 Project Development Discussion  (Read 146520 times)
sidehack (OP)
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June 19, 2015, 07:36:08 PM
 #1061

Yeah but now it's going to be really embarassing if we actually can't make per-board tuning work.

Cool, quiet and up to 1TH pod miner, on sale now!
Currently in development - 200+GH USB stick; 6TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
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daddyfatsax
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June 19, 2015, 09:49:39 PM
 #1062

With enough burgers, you can do anything.
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June 19, 2015, 09:58:16 PM
 #1063

Yeah but now it's going to be really embarassing if we actually can't make per-board tuning work.


well you could go back to using a pot. Cheesy


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HerbPean
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June 20, 2015, 12:46:12 AM
 #1064

Yeah but now it's going to be really embarassing if we actually can't make per-board tuning work.


well you could go back to using a pot. Cheesy



KISS strategy is always the best.

Keep It Simple Stupid Cheesy
PlanetCrypto
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June 20, 2015, 02:01:35 AM
 #1065

Yeah but now it's going to be really embarassing if we actually can't make per-board tuning work.

Let's look at this objectively.
IMHO:

  • You've reversed engineered another companies board (no small feat),
  • you've dramatically improved on their design,
  • you've standardized a design/interface,
  • all the while maintaining a competitive price point,
  • and accomplished these herculean tasks in record time,
  • on a shoestring RD&D budget.

If for whatever reason autotune, either in firmware or S/W, isn't implemented I see no reason for embarrassment.
You're already a league ahead of the competition, implementing autotune makes you the "only game in town" and puts you a light year ahead of the nearest competitor.
Autotune, if implemented in firmware, extends that competitive advantage dramatically.
If you guys were to even do a patent applied for you could non-exclusively license that tech to whomever.
You could receive a licensing fee, or include it in an agreement to buy chips.

I just want to see you guys "get ahead" whatever that means to you'all.
So let me paint a picture, you could exclusively license the tech to a chip manufacturer (who may be a competitor, not naming any names here) for an agreement in writing for current and future chip availability and pricing.

Or maybe the above AND a smaller fee (so you have the resources to buy chips).

Have no doubt you can make autotune happen, however you decide to.
But autotune and self-healing is a serious game changer in my mind.

Just sayin'

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sidehack (OP)
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June 20, 2015, 04:46:01 AM
 #1066

I didn't really reverse-engineer much. Most of it was just common sense, though I did look at their board a bit to figure out the inter-node level shifters (and I think I improved on some parts of that just a little bit).

I've standardized a design/interface? Which part?

If by "record time" you mean "over a month behind the initial timeline", then yes.

I think trying to patent anything we come up with will probably cost more than, basically, the whole rest of the project. I'm not sure tuning code is actually a patentable idea, since it's been done before on other hardware. I dunno, I think you're complimenting our efforts too highly - but maybe that's because I'm pretty disappointed so far.

Cool, quiet and up to 1TH pod miner, on sale now!
Currently in development - 200+GH USB stick; 6TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
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June 20, 2015, 11:55:53 AM
 #1067

Given your quality power breakout boards. I can see this as a big plus in your stable and will help out all I can. The biggest problem with mining as everyone knows is ROI and the cost of running and the heat. A really good idea would to make cooling a big priority. I would like to liquid cool my stuff. just makes it simpler to mineral oil submerge everything and pump the oil through a fan cooled panel like a old cars ac condenser. another idea is make a master backplane for data that you could plug in set amounts of the miner cards so scaling can be dine like the old 10gig miners.
PlanetCrypto
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June 20, 2015, 02:44:28 PM
 #1068

Given your quality power breakout boards. I can see this as a big plus in your stable and will help out all I can. The biggest problem with mining as everyone knows is ROI and the cost of running and the heat. A really good idea would to make cooling a big priority. I would like to liquid cool my stuff. just makes it simpler to mineral oil submerge everything and pump the oil through a fan cooled panel like a old cars ac condenser. another idea is make a master backplane for data that you could plug in set amounts of the miner cards so scaling can be dine like the old 10gig miners.

Some stuff we did with immersion cooling.
https://www.youtube.com/user/PlanetCrypto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fStHV_Q-x7s

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chiguireitor
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June 20, 2015, 04:04:06 PM
 #1069

Given your quality power breakout boards. I can see this as a big plus in your stable and will help out all I can. The biggest problem with mining as everyone knows is ROI and the cost of running and the heat. A really good idea would to make cooling a big priority. I would like to liquid cool my stuff. just makes it simpler to mineral oil submerge everything and pump the oil through a fan cooled panel like a old cars ac condenser. another idea is make a master backplane for data that you could plug in set amounts of the miner cards so scaling can be dine like the old 10gig miners.

Some stuff we did with immersion cooling.
https://www.youtube.com/user/PlanetCrypto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fStHV_Q-x7s


Lucky you, living on a Novec 7100 allowed country Tongue

PlanetCrypto
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June 20, 2015, 06:17:57 PM
 #1070

I didn't really reverse-engineer much. Most of it was just common sense, though I did look at their board a bit to figure out the inter-node level shifters (and I think I improved on some parts of that just a little bit).

I've standardized a design/interface? Which part?

If by "record time" you mean "over a month behind the initial timeline", then yes.

I think trying to patent anything we come up with will probably cost more than, basically, the whole rest of the project. I'm not sure tuning code is actually a patentable idea, since it's been done before on other hardware. I dunno, I think you're complimenting our efforts too highly - but maybe that's because I'm pretty disappointed so far.

"Most of it was just common sense, ..." For you'all easy-peasy, for the majority not so much.

"I've standardized a design/interface?" chip chain design and USB interface.

"If by "record time" you mean "over a month behind the initial timeline", then yes." Apply the 80/20 rule. 80% gets accomplished in 20% of the time allotted, the remaining 20% of the work takes 80% of the time.
Or stated another way, figure out how long you think it's going to take (in hours, days, months, etc), double the number and increment to the next time measurement metric. So something I think will take 2 hours really takes 4 days.  Grin

Using the later estimation method, I'd say you're way ahead of schedule.

For my own projects I always add on an additional 10%. I lovingly call that additional time my "fudge factor". I include it to compensate for all the unknowns that can't be budgeted for. Like staff being called away for family emergencies (family first, rightfully so), supply chain delays, natural disasters, and a million other things that can't be anticipated. Project management is a combination of math and art. It's not a precise science, it's a fuzzy science.

Patent protection doesn't protect what you've spent. Patent protection protects what a thing/idea is worth. It protects future value. It's a time constrained value estimation.
"I'm not sure tuning code is actually a patentable idea, since it's been done before on other hardware." But likely not the way you're going to do it, on the H/W you're working with. That makes it distinctive, and hence patentable. And probably worth protecting. Even if you only improve how it was done in the past, that improvement is patentable, and again, I believe, worth protecting. You deserve to be paid equitably for your effort, because it's not something everyone else can do.

Now I'm gonna' shut up, quit distracting you, and let you get on with your day.  Grin

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PlanetCrypto
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June 20, 2015, 06:24:42 PM
 #1071

Given your quality power breakout boards. I can see this as a big plus in your stable and will help out all I can. The biggest problem with mining as everyone knows is ROI and the cost of running and the heat. A really good idea would to make cooling a big priority. I would like to liquid cool my stuff. just makes it simpler to mineral oil submerge everything and pump the oil through a fan cooled panel like a old cars ac condenser. another idea is make a master backplane for data that you could plug in set amounts of the miner cards so scaling can be dine like the old 10gig miners.

Some stuff we did with immersion cooling.
https://www.youtube.com/user/PlanetCrypto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fStHV_Q-x7s


Lucky you, living on a Novec 7100 allowed country Tongue

So now I'm curious, what countries/regions ban or can't be shipped to Novec Engineered Fluids?
In our conversations with 3M they seemed to believe/portray that Novec could be shipped anywhere.

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PlanetCrypto
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June 20, 2015, 09:37:39 PM
 #1072

S5 Profit versus Clock Speed Analysis.
Analysis Spreadsheet may be found here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/yq1c22quyktfm32/C1%20%26%20S5%20Profit%20vs%20Clock%20Speed%20analysis.xlsx?dl=0



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Digitalmocking
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June 20, 2015, 09:59:16 PM
 #1073

S5 Profit versus Clock Speed Analysis.
Analysis Spreadsheet may be found here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/yq1c22quyktfm32/C1%20%26%20S5%20Profit%20vs%20Clock%20Speed%20analysis.xlsx?dl=0




Nice investigative work.  I don't have any overhead really right now in my PSUs to turn up the clock, but maybe I'll switch some things around in the near future.
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June 20, 2015, 11:22:49 PM
 #1074

Given your quality power breakout boards. I can see this as a big plus in your stable and will help out all I can. The biggest problem with mining as everyone knows is ROI and the cost of running and the heat. A really good idea would to make cooling a big priority. I would like to liquid cool my stuff. just makes it simpler to mineral oil submerge everything and pump the oil through a fan cooled panel like a old cars ac condenser. another idea is make a master backplane for data that you could plug in set amounts of the miner cards so scaling can be dine like the old 10gig miners.

Some stuff we did with immersion cooling.
https://www.youtube.com/user/PlanetCrypto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fStHV_Q-x7s


Lucky you, living on a Novec 7100 allowed country Tongue

So now I'm curious, what countries/regions ban or can't be shipped to Novec Engineered Fluids?
In our conversations with 3M they seemed to believe/portray that Novec could be shipped anywhere.

Welp, i saw in their site that Novec is allowed only on a handful of countries (because hazardous materials restrictions). I too asked my local 3M branch and directed me to smuggle them via a 3M paint importer. Go figure

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June 21, 2015, 12:44:28 AM
 #1075

Given your quality power breakout boards. I can see this as a big plus in your stable and will help out all I can. The biggest problem with mining as everyone knows is ROI and the cost of running and the heat. A really good idea would to make cooling a big priority. I would like to liquid cool my stuff. just makes it simpler to mineral oil submerge everything and pump the oil through a fan cooled panel like a old cars ac condenser. another idea is make a master backplane for data that you could plug in set amounts of the miner cards so scaling can be dine like the old 10gig miners.

Some stuff we did with immersion cooling.
https://www.youtube.com/user/PlanetCrypto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fStHV_Q-x7s


Lucky you, living on a Novec 7100 allowed country Tongue

So now I'm curious, what countries/regions ban or can't be shipped to Novec Engineered Fluids?
In our conversations with 3M they seemed to believe/portray that Novec could be shipped anywhere.

Welp, i saw in their site that Novec is allowed only on a handful of countries (because hazardous materials restrictions). I too asked my local 3M branch and directed me to smuggle them via a 3M paint importer. Go figure

weird, in a couple videos i watched about novec they say it is completely environment friendly  Huh
chiguireitor
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June 21, 2015, 03:12:51 AM
 #1076

Given your quality power breakout boards. I can see this as a big plus in your stable and will help out all I can. The biggest problem with mining as everyone knows is ROI and the cost of running and the heat. A really good idea would to make cooling a big priority. I would like to liquid cool my stuff. just makes it simpler to mineral oil submerge everything and pump the oil through a fan cooled panel like a old cars ac condenser. another idea is make a master backplane for data that you could plug in set amounts of the miner cards so scaling can be dine like the old 10gig miners.

Some stuff we did with immersion cooling.
https://www.youtube.com/user/PlanetCrypto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fStHV_Q-x7s


Lucky you, living on a Novec 7100 allowed country Tongue

So now I'm curious, what countries/regions ban or can't be shipped to Novec Engineered Fluids?
In our conversations with 3M they seemed to believe/portray that Novec could be shipped anywhere.

Welp, i saw in their site that Novec is allowed only on a handful of countries (because hazardous materials restrictions). I too asked my local 3M branch and directed me to smuggle them via a 3M paint importer. Go figure

weird, in a couple videos i watched about novec they say it is completely environment friendly  Huh

Yeah, the manufacturar saying it is one thing, but the governments doing their thing is another

PlanetCrypto
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June 21, 2015, 03:24:39 AM
 #1077

As I understand it, Novec Fluids are chemical cousins to 3M's Fire Suppression fluids used in Data Centers.
It's like a "thicker" fluorocarbon freon.
I've personally had my hands in tanks of it and I'm not growing any third arms or heads.
And while it wouldn't be my first choice in a beverage I'm pretty sure it won't kill ya' if ingested in small quantities.
It does not get shipped as a hazardous, toxic, or flammable item.
Pretty sure even the US postal system will take it.

7000, 7100, 7200; when a small quantity is poured into your cupped hand evaporates in seconds.
We use it around the shop as a circuit board cleaner.
But at ~$300/gallon it gets used sparingly.

The MSDS sheet is on the 3M website if really curious.

And it's not nearly as slimy as mineral oil, yuccchhhhh.

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.SEMUX
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  Semux uses 100% original codebase
  Superfast with 30 seconds instant finality
  Tested 5000 tx per block on open network
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sidehack (OP)
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June 21, 2015, 03:50:54 AM
 #1078

What I meant about costs regarding patents is, if the budget for the project so far has been about $600 I don't think we're gonna be able to scrape together however many thousands of dollars it takes to file a patent claim. I'm also sorta allergic to BS, and every patent I've ever [tried to] read makes almost no sense because any technical information is completely obscured in stupid legal language. I mean if someone wants to go through what I put together, decide if it's patentable, translate the technical information into Vogon and push it through the system pro-bono, sure we can patent some of the TypeZero stuff. But right now I'm a little more concerned with being one of two engineers in a two-man business than being a paperpusher. You may be right about everything, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm broke and undertrained in legal documentation.

Also, and no offense to PlanetCrypto because I know he really likes liquid cooling, but I really don't care much about it. There's just something reliably low-tech about a heatsink and fan that makes things so much easier for regular people to work with, and since making things regular people want to work with is our priority, I'll stick to considering those needs. That said, if our Spec1 boards are compatible with S[odd] heatsinks, it also means they're compatible with the waterblocks folks are using for them, so there you go. The Spec2 board would be built dimensionally as a Prisma board, which I know PanetCrypto has worked with in immersion cooling attempts. Something like that might be better for an oiltank. If y'all want to figure out the best ways to high-density or watercool the works-with-aircooling boards I want to make, I won't get in the way. But I'm not going to retool designs for MinerEdge-style boxes unless someone wants to specifically commission that project and pay for the dev. The miners I want to make are for people, not corporations.

Also, no progress. Family reunions all weekend. Hopefully I have PCBs in the mailbox on Monday though - barebones 18-boards and version 0.5 Compacs.

Cool, quiet and up to 1TH pod miner, on sale now!
Currently in development - 200+GH USB stick; 6TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
chiguireitor
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June 21, 2015, 06:24:06 AM
 #1079

[...] translate the technical information into Vogon and push it through the system [...]

Now you have to do a TypeZero board with 42 chips

philipma1957
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June 21, 2015, 01:16:26 PM
 #1080

What I meant about costs regarding patents is, if the budget for the project so far has been about $600 I don't think we're gonna be able to scrape together however many thousands of dollars it takes to file a patent claim. I'm also sorta allergic to BS, and every patent I've ever [tried to] read makes almost no sense because any technical information is completely obscured in stupid legal language. I mean if someone wants to go through what I put together, decide if it's patentable, translate the technical information into Vogon and push it through the system pro-bono, sure we can patent some of the TypeZero stuff. But right now I'm a little more concerned with being one of two engineers in a two-man business than being a paperpusher. You may be right about everything, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm broke and undertrained in legal documentation.

Also, and no offense to PlanetCrypto because I know he really likes liquid cooling, but I really don't care much about it. There's just something reliably low-tech about a heatsink and fan that makes things so much easier for regular people to work with, and since making things regular people want to work with is our priority, I'll stick to considering those needs. That said, if our Spec1 boards are compatible with S[odd] heatsinks, it also means they're compatible with the waterblocks folks are using for them, so there you go. The Spec2 board would be built dimensionally as a Prisma board, which I know PanetCrypto has worked with in immersion cooling attempts. Something like that might be better for an oiltank. If y'all want to figure out the best ways to high-density or watercool the works-with-aircooling boards I want to make, I won't get in the way. But I'm not going to retool designs for MinerEdge-style boxes unless someone wants to specifically commission that project and pay for the dev. The miners I want to make are for people, not corporations.

Also, no progress. Family reunions all weekend. Hopefully I have PCBs in the mailbox on Monday though - barebones 18-boards and version 0.5 Compacs.

Don't worry come monday parts arrive and sidehack on!

I am wearing the t-shirt as I type.

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