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Author Topic: GekkoScience BM1384 Project Development Discussion  (Read 143327 times)
CanaryInTheMine
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June 24, 2015, 05:06:00 PM
 #1121

So yeah, opinions? Short and fat or tall and skinny?

Given the side by side nature of some usb hubs, I would think that taller and skinnier would be compatible for more folks and allow more airflow for multiple units.
I agree with this, I've seen way too many hubs where the space was at a premium...

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sidehack
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June 24, 2015, 05:10:04 PM
 #1122

Sounds good. I am sending a pm.

Freez gear.  PM send.

Are not you the puppet yelling at Phil over in the SFARDS thread? Just to make sure you understand a few things before dragging your idiocy over here, Phil is PMing because I specifically asked for his help as a reviewer because he's proven himself adept at testing multivariable miners and evaluating a variety of use-cases. Not sure if you've seen the other thread here where he's spent time over the last two weeks posting information on efficiency and temperature performance of the first draft of this stickminer. He's been here offering support and advice since the beginning - literally, check post #9 of this 1100-post thread. It's him, offering assistance and support.

For the record, I also asked notlist3d (post #16) for having the same kind of review reputation as Philipma1957. TheRealSteve (post #3) is in because he's sort of the go-to authority on stick miners around here, and vs3 (post #77) has designed and built his own sticks in the past. CanaryInTheMine and CrazyGuy are getting samples to look over because they have a well-established reputation as resellers and know the customer landscape well. I've also asked MrTeal (of PepperMining) because of his reputation for solid engineering, and Bicknellski (post #22) partly because nobody likes him anyway since he always says exactly what he thinks, and partly because he's helped us with advice and support since early on in this project.

If you're going to be a dick to people I sought out for help because they decided to help, well, that sorta makes you the bad guy.

Please leave my thread.

Selling seconds 2Pacs for a friend's med bills - PM for details
Currently in development - 20-120GH USB stick; 700GH 75W pod; 4TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
Dexter770221
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June 24, 2015, 05:10:18 PM
 #1123

My wife is fat... So definitely skinny Wink

Under development Modular UPGRADEABLE Miner (MUM). Looking for investors.
Changing one PCB with screwdriver and you have brand new miner in hand... Plug&Play, scalable from one module to thousands.
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June 24, 2015, 05:14:22 PM
 #1124

Alright, looks like skinny it is. The PCB dimensions of the Compac are 1" by 2.5"; the Amita will probably be more like 1.3" by 4.1". The extra height is there to accommodate the doubled heatsinks, since there's one 25x40mm heatsink per chip. It'll look pretty much just like the Compac extended upward with a second sink above the first.

I'm probably gonna cut out of here in about two hours (making this an 8.5 hour day already) so let's see if I can't get the Amita PCB done in that amount of time.

Also, I'm going to give our tardy debtors until about Friday to get things ironed out with us (I expected it to be taken care of last Tuesday) before I think about short-term-borrowing some coin to cover the chip order I expected to have paid last week. So don't worry about it quite yet.

Selling seconds 2Pacs for a friend's med bills - PM for details
Currently in development - 20-120GH USB stick; 700GH 75W pod; 4TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
notlist3d
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June 24, 2015, 05:49:02 PM
 #1125

So yeah, opinions? Short and fat or tall and skinny?

Given the side by side nature of some usb hubs, I would think that taller and skinnier would be compatible for more folks and allow more airflow for multiple units.
I agree with this, I've seen way too many hubs where the space was at a premium...

I think tall and skinny will win out.  My biggest thing with the size is I really would like someone new to mining to be able to buy one and plug it into their computer to start off into mining.

Hubs as long as I can use the heat sinks allows a little bit of air from a pc fan or small desk fan I consider it a sucess.
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June 24, 2015, 06:18:00 PM
 #1126

So yeah, opinions? Short and fat or tall and skinny?

Given the side by side nature of some usb hubs, I would think that taller and skinnier would be compatible for more folks and allow more airflow for multiple units.
I agree with this, I've seen way too many hubs where the space was at a premium...

I think tall and skinny will win out.  My biggest thing with the size is I really would like someone new to mining to be able to buy one and plug it into their computer to start off into mining.

Hubs as long as I can use the heat sinks allows a little bit of air from a pc fan or small desk fan I consider it a sucess.

Yeah I made some software usb sticks with these.


http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-SDCZ50-004G-10PK-Everything-Stromboli-Lanyard/dp/B00FVWQ6XC/ref=sr_1_15?

it allows for easy setup.  with zadig and cgminer folders

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I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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June 24, 2015, 06:24:10 PM
 #1127

So yeah, opinions? Short and fat or tall and skinny?

Given the side by side nature of some usb hubs, I would think that taller and skinnier would be compatible for more folks and allow more airflow for multiple units.
I agree with this, I've seen way too many hubs where the space was at a premium...

I think tall and skinny will win out.  My biggest thing with the size is I really would like someone new to mining to be able to buy one and plug it into their computer to start off into mining.

Hubs as long as I can use the heat sinks allows a little bit of air from a pc fan or small desk fan I consider it a sucess.

When The software part is done by Novak, and I can maybe get my hand on one of these sticks, I might try to get it running on a Raspberry Pi (cheap low power linux computer, costs 35$). If it works, I could make a ready to use operating system image, that would mean VERY easy setup, basically plug and play, even for users with very little experience.
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June 24, 2015, 06:35:22 PM
 #1128


When The software part is done by Novak, and I can maybe get my hand on one of these sticks, I might try to get it running on a Raspberry Pi (cheap low power linux computer, costs 35$). If it works, I could make a ready to use operating system image, that would mean VERY easy setup, basically plug and play, even for users with very little experience.

Are you serious?? We are all aware of what a pi is and we actually already talk about that. Quick tip, before posting someting (since you seems to be new) read the thread.  Wink Dont want to be a jerk but sometime you have to think before speak.

no offence

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sidehack
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June 24, 2015, 06:36:37 PM
 #1129

Just throwing this out there, but the Compac already works (as a U3) with the latest Minera for the Pi.

But yeah, when Novak's got all sexy we'll need to do something, either a custom cgminer build or get it included in the main code.

Also, I'm feeling rather turdley so I'm gonna leave early and probably accomplish nothing at all the rest of the day.

Selling seconds 2Pacs for a friend's med bills - PM for details
Currently in development - 20-120GH USB stick; 700GH 75W pod; 4TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
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June 24, 2015, 06:47:45 PM
 #1130

Just throwing this out there, but the Compac already works (as a U3) with the latest Minera for the Pi.

But yeah, when Novak's got all sexy we'll need to do something, either a custom cgminer build or get it included in the main code.

Also, I'm feeling rather turdley so I'm gonna leave early and probably accomplish nothing at all the rest of the day.
Oh, I didnt know that cgminer identifies the chips themselves, I thought some kind of eeprom handles that. In that case, there shouldnt be any other changes needed other than visuals, am I right?
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June 24, 2015, 07:11:49 PM
 #1131

Nope, there are other changes required as described in previous posts.

Selling seconds 2Pacs for a friend's med bills - PM for details
Currently in development - 20-120GH USB stick; 700GH 75W pod; 4TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
MCHouston
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Where am I?


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June 24, 2015, 07:23:23 PM
 #1132

I am curious in your testing, have you had time to test to what ambient air temp the miner will operate normally?

So mining areas are AC'd some are free air, mine is free air currently is the reason I am asking.  I know there is quite a range when it comes to equipment I have tested some gear to 120F with no problems some died at 95F.

Nice work on the project.

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June 24, 2015, 07:42:30 PM
 #1133

I am curious in your testing, have you had time to test to what ambient air temp the miner will operate normally?

So mining areas are AC'd some are free air, mine is free air currently is the reason I am asking.  I know there is quite a range when it comes to equipment I have tested some gear to 120F with no problems some died at 95F.

Nice work on the project.

yeah I am running my 1 stick at freq 218.75 with a fan to cool it in my garage yesterday it was 91f in the garage the stick was fine.

 I am interested in testing more with 2, 3, 4 ,5 stick setups.

This is the testing thread link.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1086011.0;all

Please support sidehack with his new miner project Send to : 1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
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June 24, 2015, 09:32:46 PM
 #1134

My wife is fat... So definitely skinny Wink

You better hope she doesn't read this Forum, or can't connect your ID to you!  Smiley
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June 24, 2015, 09:40:39 PM
 #1135

My wife is fat... So definitely skinny Wink

You better hope she doesn't read this Forum, or can't connect your ID to you!  Smiley
I know that she doesn't Wink Besides, her English is rather bad. She avoids anything that is not in polish (my & her native language)

Under development Modular UPGRADEABLE Miner (MUM). Looking for investors.
Changing one PCB with screwdriver and you have brand new miner in hand... Plug&Play, scalable from one module to thousands.
sidehack
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June 24, 2015, 11:14:51 PM
 #1136

Currently the Compac enumerates under the Icarus driver, which is pretty generic and what cgminer appears to default to when it can't find ID-specified hardware. Basically the driver attempts to mine on whatever USB device it sees and if it gets back the expected result it just keeps going.

There are, that I can think of right now, four problems with enumerating the Copac as a U3. The first is simple - it's not correct. It's not a U3, so labeling it as such is fallacious. The second is, apparently there's something different in chained comms or chiplength detection between the BM1382 and BM1384, because every serial 1384 I've run on a USB driver passes only one work packet. The first chip hands it off to the second, and they both work on the same data, which means half the shares returned are duplicates that cgminer reports as HW errors (which does not affect the Compac, but cripples the Amita). The third is that, since the U3 is a four-chip device, cgminer is expecting four times the hashrate at the given frequency. This matters because cgminer has a reset timeout which it bases on maximum expected time between returned shares, and if the hashrate is one-fourth what it's expecting, the timeout will be triggered fairly often even when the hardware is working properly. The fourth issue is with startup current draw. When the chip inits with U3 code, it fires up hard and slams the crap out of the regulator, meaning it briefly draws really high power from the USB bus. The burst transient current can knock down the Vcore briefly, not enough to trip out the regulator but enough that the starting voltage for a particular frequency is higher (to compensate for the drop) than the running voltage, which means if you want to "set it and forget it" you'll be running hotter than you actually have to. S5 code ramps the chips up a lot more slowly, which helps to not transient-load the power rails (essential for USB miners). It also helps maintain the voltage/current balance between nodes on a string board (essential for Amita and TypeZero). All four of these things are significant reasons we'll need to redo the code.

Also, regarding temperature, my shop is usually 85-95F where I have sticks running. I don't expect them to have heat problems even at 100F ambient until you start pushing 175MHz or above without fans.

Selling seconds 2Pacs for a friend's med bills - PM for details
Currently in development - 20-120GH USB stick; 700GH 75W pod; 4TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
vapourminer
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what is this "brake pedal" you speak of?


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June 24, 2015, 11:37:49 PM
 #1137

The third is that, since the U3 is a four-chip device, cgminer is expecting four times the hashrate at the given frequency. This matters because cgminer has a reset timeout which it bases on maximum expected time between returned shares, and if the hashrate is one-fourth what it's expecting, the timeout will be triggered fairly often even when the hardware is working properly.
the latest cgminer 4.9.2, doubled the U3 timeout from 1 to 2 seconds (going from memory here). I thought perhaps that was to help with your project.
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June 24, 2015, 11:42:10 PM
 #1138

1 to 2 seconds at what frequency? It calculates a new timeout when the clock changes.

If that change was made to help us, it was done without my knowledge. I don't think we've talked to cgminer devs yet, but you'd have to ask Novak for specifics.

Selling seconds 2Pacs for a friend's med bills - PM for details
Currently in development - 20-120GH USB stick; 700GH 75W pod; 4TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
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what is this "brake pedal" you speak of?


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June 25, 2015, 12:10:07 AM
 #1139

not sure. this is from the 4.9.2 readme:

Quote
- Default Antminer U3 voltage has been changed to 775 since 750 is rarely enough to get 2nd generation ones running at full speed.
- U3 will USB reset on no shares for 2 seconds instead of 1.
TheRealSteve
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FUN > ROI


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June 25, 2015, 12:37:34 AM
 #1140

If that change was made to help us, it was done without my knowledge. I don't think we've talked to cgminer devs yet, but you'd have to ask Novak for specifics.
No, it was specifically to deal with some U3 issues.  For a long time, -ck didn't have a U3 to test against (not sure if he does again now), and the previous version of cgminer was giving people trouble (using a version older worked okay though).

Note that he's got some choice words on the U3 that make it clear he's no fan of the comm chip's behavior and non-ease of identification of the U3:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=827356.msg11598332#msg11598332
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=827356.msg11036830#msg11036830
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=28402.msg10538698#msg10538698
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=28402.msg10039320#msg10039320
Only this last one probably semi-applies to the Compac as well, but you've already touched on that in an earlier post (identifying as a U3).
I have no idea why the comm chip would misbehave on the U3 - bog standard CP2102 used on several miner designs and even larger numbers of other consumer devices.

Once novak has things fleshed out on his end, it certainly can't hurt to send -ck one for an extra set of eyeballs and testing (if he's interested); I'd be happy to frontcover the costs.

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