Why the darkcoin/dash/dashpay instamine matters

[illodin]

Yes, the price was pumped all the way up to 017 and has now been dumped all the way down to 011.

Does anyone else see the pattern, where some shiny new feature (EG Evolution) is used to hype the price, then the insiders cash out more instamined coins?

Perhaps you should've bought some @0055 and sold @017 if you are able to see "patterns". Or do you hate money?

[iCEBREAKER]

Yes, the price was pumped all the way up to 017 and has now been dumped all the way down to 011.

Does anyone else see the pattern, where some shiny new feature (EG Evolution) is used to hype the price, then the insiders cash out more instamined coins?

Perhaps you should've bought some @0055 and sold @017 if you are able to see "patterns". Or do you hate money?

No thanks, I'm very happy with my BTC, XMR, XPM, XCN, VIA, and dCred.

Those are fairly launched and marketed coins, unlike DASH's instamined HYIP scam.

Enjoy your dirty shitcoin pump-and-dump money while you can.  dCred is eating Dash's PoS lunch, if you haven't noticed...

[illodin]

Yes, the price was pumped all the way up to 017 and has now been dumped all the way down to 011.

Does anyone else see the pattern, where some shiny new feature (EG Evolution) is used to hype the price, then the insiders cash out more instamined coins?

Perhaps you should've bought some @0055 and sold @017 if you are able to see "patterns". Or do you hate money?

No thanks, I'm very happy with my BTC, XMR, XPM, XCN, VIA, and dCred.

No thanks to 3x profits you could've put into XMR, XPM, XCN, VIA, and dCred?

Those are fairly launched and marketed coins

Yes, here's a good example of your fair marketing: https://forum.bitcoin.com/post3253.html#p3253

[cryptohunter2]

Did Dash create more coins out of thin air?  

No. If it did, it would've been a hard fork and miners and users would've had to choose which fork to support. And by the looks of it, not many would've supported the new fork.

Did duff wanted to hide his shady dealings??

Depends on what you mean by shady. Given the agenda you're driving you probably imply a scam, which it isn't and wasn't.

You wouldn't want such a merge plan to leak because scammers would game the markets before the valuation date of the coins that determine the percentage each holder will get the new coin.

A coin that has 10% of the marketcap of the other (can't remember what the exact percentages were back then but around that number I presume) can easily be pumped by 100% or 200% to get unfair gains that don't reflect true market value.

I can't believe you are still here trying to defend this scam. You were here at the start defending this when I first broke it wide open on this board. It's a known scam please get back to the bitbay thread and use your energy to do something useful for that community Where is that other one slapper or whatever he was called.  I have no idea what you seek to achieve by bumping these anti dark threads over and over. I need it back up to $10 by the time i had my wallet online it sunk like a stone again. Let's not get all the anti dark threads bumped back on here for heavens sake. It started as a huge scam - captive instamined - then the minting chopped to magnify the instamine... .we've all been through it a million times. Don't get all those threads with the exact details of how it went down popped up here on to the first page again.

[illodin]

I can't believe you are still here trying to defend this scam.

If something is a scam, it should be proven so with facts, not by making up agenda driven fud and lies. Correcting fud and lies is not scam defending.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Don't know about the instamine, but how is Dash doing now?  It's been almost a year since OP wrote this.  I bought some Dash not too long ago, and I have to say that the volume on Yobit is absolutely awful.  Is it that way on the other exchanges?

[iCEBREAKER]

Don't know about the instamine, but how is Dash doing now?  It's been almost a year since OP wrote this.  I bought some Dash not too long ago, and I have to say that the volume on Yobit is absolutely awful.  Is it that way on the other exchanges?

After the Mintpal scam was over, the Dash (then Darkcoin) scam found a new home on Cryptsy's scam exchange.

Like Paycoin and Shaun Bridges, Dash was a close friend of Cryptsy. 

Besides the malingering Dash HYIP, that shady nexus of intrigue and scamming has mostly dissipated in clouds of scandal and drama.

Dash is currently experiencing the relative disadvantage of being traded mostly on a reputable exchange, with competition from non-instamined coins that use good crypto and the looming threat of lending rates higher than masternode yields.

[smooth]

I can't believe you are still here trying to defend this scam.

If something is a scam, it should be proven so with facts, not by making up agenda driven fud and lies. Correcting fud and lies is not scam defending.

That is almost never, if not actually never, possible to prove until after the scam has collapsed, at best (meaning some scammers get away with scamming, i.e. it is never proven).

Evidence suggestive of a scam is not FUD. When Madoff's ROI numbers were pointed out as suspicious, that was not proof, nor was it even possible to prove it with facts available (because the only one with all the facts was Madoff himself, and he wasn't about to reveal them until forced to do so). What it was is evidence strongly suggestive of a scam.

Likewise, misleading statements from Evan about the launch time and then the early launch, withholding development plans until after the instamine, Otoh getting a large number of coins directly from an instaminer, repeated renames, inconsistent self-contradictory statements from Evan as to the nature of the project (hobby vs. for-profit venture), etc. are all evidence strongly suggestive of a scam, but no, not conclusive proof.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Don't know about the instamine, but how is Dash doing now?  It's been almost a year since OP wrote this.  I bought some Dash not too long ago, and I have to say that the volume on Yobit is absolutely awful.  Is it that way on the other exchanges?

After the Mintpal scam was over, the Dash (then Darkcoin) scam found a new home on Cryptsy's scam exchange.

Like Paycoin and Shaun Bridges, Dash was a close friend of Cryptsy. 

Besides the malingering Dash HYIP, that shady nexus of intrigue and scamming has mostly dissipated in clouds of scandal and drama.

Dash is currently experiencing the relative disadvantage of being traded mostly on a reputable exchange, with competition from non-instamined coins that use good crypto and the looming threat of lending rates higher than masternode yields.

I get that it's being traded on reputable exchanges now and as I pointed out the volume on Yobit sucks, but Dash doesn't look too bad price-wise.  Is it completely a failure?  I mean, compared to any other shitcoin?

I don't even know what the mintpal scam was.  But RIP Cryptsy.

[iCEBREAKER]

Dash doesn't look too bad price-wise.  Is it completely a failure?  I mean, compared to any other shitcoin?

Not at all!  Dash is the Cadillac of shitcoins.

It enjoys a market cap and volume above all other shitcoins except Ripple, and a (suspicious, disconcerting) degree of apparent immunity from the numerous laws and regulation it flagrantly breaks/ignores/disregards.

But its future isn't looking bright.

There are entire, fully funded projects solely working on distributed storage. Then there are entire, fully funded projects working on social networking type applications. Then there are entire, fully funded projects working on API building.

Given that background, any self respecting investor is going to conclude that Dash has bitten off more than it can chew trying to do all this to a high technical standard with only 1 or 2 core developers. They will wonder where the efficiency gain is in development (i.e. what is it that those projects are doing that Dash doesn't need to do).

Even the cultists know the Evolution roadmap-to-unicorns is a giant nonstarter.

[cryptohunter2]

I can't believe you are still here trying to defend this scam.

If something is a scam, it should be proven so with facts, not by making up agenda driven fud and lies. Correcting fud and lies is not scam defending.

It has been proven in detail many times. Should we bring all the dash investigative threads back to the front page here again? so you can spend you days trying to show that black is white?

You have corrected NOTHING.

Revist all the threads I see nothing from you or anyone else to refute the fact it was trick after trick with the pure intention of mining as much for themselves then slashing the minting to magnify their instamine.

Do you want all of the old darkcoin is a scam threads pushed to the front page here again? go ask the darkcoin community and then report back??


You have always tried to say that the instamine and slashing of the minting is not a scam. That's fine is you don't define that as a scam. But most people disagree with that.

If you try to pretend it's a totally fair launch and everyone has a fair chance at coins but it isn't and they don't .... and then you add injury to insult by magnifying those unfair gains then yes that is a scam to most people.

Let it die you are causing more prolonged damage to dash with this. If you sold out and are now anti dash just come out and say it because i can see no logic at all to dragging it all up again.

[cryptohunter2]

I mean you are one of the first people in that thread moaning about the launch and the instamine.....on page 2 of the dash thread at the bottom...dont even bother to edit it.

illodin
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Re: [ANN][XCO] XCoin | CPU - Fast, Easy Mine, * NO PREMINE * | Official Thread
January 18, 2014, 10:04:31 PM
Reply with quote  #39
Quote from: Xilard on January 18, 2014, 10:03:20 PM
It would be so hard to realse a coin with compiled wallets? Oo
No but it would be hard for dev to instamine with them


so there you are basically saying ....yes it's fucked up he didn't launch with a windows qt so the vast majority there can't mine and he and his pals can get a better jump on the instamine....

then again you are moaning on page 5


wut.. no premine but you have 5k to throw?



it's crazy how you are now trying to say all was fair and correct on launch. Everyone knows there was a Huge instamine.

just let it go now I mean I don't personally think from reading some of your other posts that you are stupid at all in fact you're probably way smarter than me. However the blinding obvious thing here is this.

Why is the person that can be seen to be moaning the most about the instamine in the dash thread in real time as it is happening is now that last man defending the very things he was moaning about when it was happening in real time. I mean why the change of heart?? These are the possibilities i see.


1. you managed to mine/buy some eventually so you want to protect your stash and basically go back on everything you are saying as the instamine happened in real time infront of your own eyes. That's called lying

2. You sold it all and want it sink in price to get back in - so you keep trying to stir up dash instamine threads by going back on everything you are saying as the instamine happened in real time in front of your own eyes. That's called lying.

Now then if you say actually no i accept there was a captive instamine and you can't refute the minting getting slashed back either but you see evans saying here comes a totally fair launch where was all have fair chance to mine - that's called lying too.

If telling lies like that isn't still scamming to you ....that's cool. But you need to explain your definition of a scam i think.


Dash would in my opinion run away with the markets and gone way over $50 or even more if he had not launched it as he did. They were out way before the main anon fad hit and should have cleaned up. Sure he made a chunk but really he could have made tons more himself and seen dash become way more adopted that it is now if he launched in a more fair way.

Trying to dismiss the instamine and minting slashing even defending it calling it fud after you're there in real time being the main moaner is not good.


Just leave it man. I watch you and you have good eye for new projects.... move on to the next one and put as much effort into that one.

[illodin]

I can't believe you are still here trying to defend this scam.

If something is a scam, it should be proven so with facts, not by making up agenda driven fud and lies. Correcting fud and lies is not scam defending.

That is almost never, if not actually never, possible to prove until after the scam has collapsed, at best (meaning some scammers get away with scamming, i.e. it is never proven).

Evidence suggestive of a scam is not FUD. When Madoff's ROI numbers were pointed out as suspicious, that was not proof, nor was it even possible to prove it with facts available (because the only one with all the facts was Madoff himself, and he wasn't about to reveal them until forced to do so). What it was is evidence strongly suggestive of a scam.

Likewise, misleading statements from Evan about the launch time and then the early launch, withholding development plans until after the instamine, Otoh getting a large number of coins directly from an instaminer, repeated renames, inconsistent self-contradictory statements from Evan as to the nature of the project (hobby vs. for-profit venture), etc. are all evidence strongly suggestive of a scam, but no, not conclusive proof.

I can't believe you are still here trying to defend this scam.

If something is a scam, it should be proven so with facts, not by making up agenda driven fud and lies. Correcting fud and lies is not scam defending.

It has been proven in detail many times. Should we bring all the dash investigative threads back to the front page here again? so you can spend you days trying to show that black is white?

You have corrected NOTHING.

I didn't think I would have to quote the whole post when replying in order to not lose the context to which I was replying to as I posted immediately after, but here goes:

Did Dash create more coins out of thin air?  

No. If it did, it would've been a hard fork and miners and users would've had to choose which fork to support. And by the looks of it, not many would've supported the new fork.

Did duff wanted to hide his shady dealings??

Depends on what you mean by shady. Given the agenda you're driving you probably imply a scam, which it isn't and wasn't.

You wouldn't want such a merge plan to leak because scammers would game the markets before the valuation date of the coins that determine the percentage each holder will get the new coin.

A coin that has 10% of the marketcap of the other (can't remember what the exact percentages were back then but around that number I presume) can easily be pumped by 100% or 200% to get unfair gains that don't reflect true market value.

I can't believe you are still here trying to defend this scam.

There I am correcting fud and lies about the proposed merge of ShadowCoin and Darkcoin. Now if you want to refute that then please do so instead of claiming me doing something else which I didn't say.

it's crazy how you are now trying to say all was fair and correct on launch. Everyone knows there was a Huge instamine.

Please no strawmen. I'm not trying to say that.

[cryptohunter2]

There I am correcting fud and lies about the proposed merge of ShadowCoin and Darkcoin. Now if you want to refute that then please do so instead of claiming me doing something else which I didn't say.


fair enough... didn't read that bit.

[iCEBREAKER]

More trouble for Dash:

You forgot to say "instamine"

First you tried to deny the instamine happened, then you tried to spin it as a good thing.

That didn't work; people still despise Dash for its shady, dishonest, centralized, unfair origin.

Now you want to trivialize the term "instamine" by making it into a joke and wearing out the impact via repetition.

That won't work either.

There are serious, well-armed, highly-motivated people coming who don't play such silly games, but are keenly interested in the original instamine and the compounding interest gained thereof.

Surprisingly, unlike Satoshi, the mysterious creator of the original Bitcoin software who has remained anonymous and therefore outside the reach of law enforcement, the developers of both Dash and Evolution are publicly named, many of whom reside in the United States.

Requirement for Creators to Register with FinCEN

The Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (“FinCEN”) is a bureau of the United States Department of Treasury that is charged with combatting domestic and international money laundering, terrorist financing, and other financial crimes. FinCEN has issued numerous guidance and interpretations of the applicability of regulations implementing the Bank Secrecy Act (“BSA”) to persons creating virtual currencies.

Dash (meaning in this case the new resulting currency itself rather than the software) would likely be considered by FinCEN to be a new convertible virtual currency. FinCEN has made it clear that a creator of such convertible virtual currency, who issues such currency in order to sell those units for either real currency or its equivalent (including presumably an exchange with current bitcoin), is deemed to be a money transmitter. In the case of Masternodes and Evolution, a website names the specific developers who have final say over the currency. The Darkcoin Foundation Inc. development team is also publicly named. Under this approach, the creators of Dash, Masternodes, and Evolution would need to register with FinCEN as a Money Service Business (“MSB”). Failure to register can result in imprisonment of not more than 5 years, as well as civil penalties. 31 U.S.C. § 5330(e) and 31 C.F.R. § 103.41(e); 18 U.S.C § 1960(b)(1)(B). This is in addition to potential state penalties, as certain states also regulate virtual currency creators.

Requirement to Include AML Protocols in Dash, Masternodes, and Evolution

In addition to the registration requirements, an MSB is required to maintain effective anti-money laundering (AML) programs, recordkeeping, and reporting of suspicious activities. In order to do so, the MSB must know who its customers are.

These requirements will require the Dash, Masternode, and Evolution protocol to maintain the personal identifying information of its users. This can presumably be done through the software code, and is similar to the current information and processes currently maintained by exchangers of bitcoin.

The adherence to such requirements will be a large deviation from the current Dash protocol which does not maintain personally identifiable information about its users. The inclusion of such information would make Dash, Masternodes, and Evolution much more accepted by financial institutions, but runs counter to the essence of bitcoin. Bitcoin’s creator designed bitcoin to allow peer-to-peer financial exchange without the use of financial intermediaries and all the complexities involved with such intermediaries, such as identifying the users with mandatory social media accounts.

[TPTB_need_war]

To me it is absolutely unfair to put a decent person like Evan Duffield on that list.
He adresses the accusations at 9:50 of this interview with Trace Mayer, audiatur est altera pars:

http://www.bitcoin.kn/2016/02/dash-lead-developer-evan-duffield-discusses-cryptocurrency-experimentation/

To be fair, Evan can come here and once again state his case, whereupon I may further amend the list in the OP (go see the edit now).

Evan has no case, other than being very good at making nice words ("wolf in sheep skin") which causes people to not pay attention to the fact that he did not refute any of the following starting at the 10 minute point in the above quoted linked audio.

How is that Evan Duffield from Dash is not on this list, when smooth and others documented his ninjamine scam and then changing the planned coin supply to much less than was originally touted so that he and insiders owned most of the coins, and then creating a masternode design for Dash to pay more coins to those who own the most coins, thus a steady supply of selling coins to n00bs and then paying more coins themselves.

The alleged ongoing scam is allegedly perpetrated via to a great extent trading BTC for DRK, so should be included in this Bitcoin Hall of Shame.

1. smooth and others have documented that he is lying about an innocent programming error leading to in Evan's own words, "1/3 of the total coin supply being mined in less than 24 hours".

2. He also doesn't mention in the linked audio, that after this fact, he changed the planned coin supply to be much less than it was originally published to be, so the instamine amounted to 1/3 of the coin supply.

3. He claims in the linked audio that he is not the largest holder of DRK (Dash), yet we have no way to verify that and besides how could he know this unless he knows who the largest holders are? This is evidence that he does know them or he is bending the truth for propaganda.

4. Even if he doesn't have most of the DRK that was instamined, his insiders who were privy to the instamine scam do. And when he instituted the masternode scam, that enabled them to further concentrate the supply of coins. It is simple economics and smooth et all have already explained this exhaustively.

5. I found a high school level probability math error in the InstantX white paper some year after it had been released, wherein these scammers had claimed a 1000X less chance of masternode collusion than is actually the case. Smooth or someone can dig up the link for you if you want. And you can even read Evan's one post response before he high-tailed it out there not to be heard from again on the issue.

6. Erik Voorhees (whose scams were documented upthread) was pitching for Dash at a recent conference which can be viewed on YouTube. Has the dude not even studied the technology! Dash is complete crap compared to Monero. For example, it requires minutes to anonymous a transaction, it can't be done autononomously, and the masternodes compromise your anonymity. I was the one who first explained that CoinJoin be jammed, which then caused Evan to propose the masternode nonsense which was just a veil on the corrupt economic structure it concentrates as well as rendering the security and anonymity suspect.

7. In addition to probably being an illegal unregistered investment security because it was launched as a premine to themselves (in disguise) and promoting to USA investors without registering with the SEC (and Evan ostensibly being a US citizen), it is also violating FinCEN regulations which probably thus require masternodes to register as Money Services Businesses, since they are transferring money from the block chain to a third party. This Dash crap is illegal from every angle.

8. At recent conference, Dash was pushing a Dash soda pop machine and had a lady with a g-string walking around on their conference floor area. Hype much?

The list goes on and on, but that should be sufficient to remove the strikethrough from his name in your OP.

Regarding Evan, remember that:

The list is reserved for those who were instrumental in substantially ripping off folks in the cryptocurrency space.

1. Is there anyone who can claim he has been ...ripped off by Evan, directly or indirectly, due to the ...instamine? Not to mention the mathematical impossibility of it (first coins coins were at 0.000025 btc, now it's floating around 0.017-0.018 btc - so it's impossible to have lost money due to the instamine). The biggest scams (or hacks) affecting darkcoin (now dash) were all exchange-related. Ccex, mintpal, cryptsy - in that order.

The poor fools who lost their lunch money on the P&D, are probably gone from our community, never to return again.

2. Regarding supply reduction: Initial specs were for 84mn coins. When the diff formula was applied to reduce reward with increase in hashing, the theoretical max went down to ~10mn. Then Evan changed it back to 84mn to account for the problem with the new formula with users "bitching" they preferred the 10mn:

2a) User "bitching" for the 10mn to 84mn increase: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg5455971#msg5455971

Yeah let's invent some sockpuppet accounts to pretend there are "users" begging to not keep the supply as what was promised, when in all mathematical likelihood these "users" are the very few insiders who mined the fuck out of the instamine and of course they don't want to be diluted by what was originally promised. This BS is just part of the scam.

2b) Evan explaining why it was set back to 84mn (that was not a fixed number - it would be variable, depending the hash difficulty - meaning it could go over 100mn) instead of 10mn: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg5457829#msg5457829

Evan has a lie for every occasion and a spin on every lie he told to try to repaint historical facts as totally opposite of what they were. He is Slick Willy.

2c) A few days later, a poll was done to settle the supply issue in terms of a high or a low limit (otherwise it would still be at 84mn or more). It was settled by the users in favor of a lower limit: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=525093.0

Sockpuppets.

3. Regarding initial distribution and fixing it. Evan proposed an airdrop to that effect. He was flamed and attacked by members of the community for even thinking and proposing such a thing, with rage quits etc etc. The poll result is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=559932.0 (rejecting Evan's airdrop fix proposal)

Sockpuppets.

So now I know you AlexGR are inside on the scam, because you are too smart to not know the above.

[TPTB_need_war]

Here is my next rebuttal to AlexGR's scamming:

I am not convinced that these are scams from the beginning

Do you still suck your thumb also  

Are flies just randomly aimlessly flying when they get stuck in the honey.

Are criminals orders-of-magnitude more likely to break into homes that have no security system and especially when they use social networking to know which families are on vacation.

Some people need to get out more and learn about the world.

A criminal mind is always looking for a rationalization within which they can justify the odds of doing unethical and often illegal activities, and try to get away with it. An upstanding person, just doesn't get involved in such things because they are careful not to. There are some hardcore pumpers here who obviously accomplice scammers, and then there are those who are just at edge of falling into the abyss but hopefully won't (e.g. illodin @ Dash).

[iCEBREAKER]

Dash instamine scam confirmed:

The list is reserved for those who were instrumental in substantially ripping off folks in the cryptocurrency space.

Evan Duffield   (DASH)

This is Dash's narrative.  It's not one Evan's Gate cultists want the public to see, but that's just too bad.

Any new investor researching Dash is going to find overwhelming overwhelming evidence of incompetence and/or malfeasance in the fiasco of a launch, bad crypto in the code, and snake oil marketing in the community.

[TPTB_need_war]

Warning to all scammers, you will not win a debate against me. Go ahead and make my day by trying:

Has Evan "substantially ripped off" anyone in order to be in a list where actual scammers that stole people's money are in?

The unethical slights-of-hand legalese criminal minds make.

Bill Clinton said, "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement....Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true.".

Of course Evan and his accomplices such as yourself have succeeded in defrauding those who bought the P&D when the price rose to nosebleed levels and then crashed. The P&D that was enabled by insiders controlling the float through this shell game, thus able to buy DRK from themselves pushing the price, market cap, and volume up to nosebleed levels which fooled the naive.

Come on, don't think you can get away with that shit with me. Slime-ball AlexGR you are out-of-league trying to debate me. You will lose.

[TPTB_need_war]

Bill Clinton a.k.a. Slick Willy argues that everyone who invested in D​arkcoin a.k.a. D​a​s​h made a profit. I guess he flunked basic math.

For the slowminded, the relevance is that someone took the profit and someone else didn't. Now go review the facts that I presented upthread as to the dominance the insiders had due to the instamine and the ongoing concentration of tokens via the masternode scam. This slime ball argues that if we can't go round up those fools who lost their money and left cryptoland in disgust or who are too embarrassed to admit they invested in the scam, then that means they don't exist. Yet basic math tells us they must exist.