Why the darkcoin/dash/dashpay instamine matters

[cryptohunter]

The victims you require are every miner that was scammed. Do you get it yet?

Thanks for confirming that.

Now we know who's noses are out of joint and who's making all the noise 

I just bought mine in the market where they were available in abundance. Maybe you should have too if had valued that much.

#fauxOutrage

NO i will not ever buy and support scams. They should be crushed not bought into.

Oh really, thought it was monero only.

Now it's people (miners that were scammed) sorry but anyone is able to complain if they choose.

Viewing the FACTS up thread the entire board should always be kept informed about the darkcoin past.

Dash will serve as an example so others are not Dashed in the future.

[cryptohunter]

We may not know what the value of the scam is (?), we may not be able to tell how people were scammed, we may not know of any victims, but heck, if we repeat it is a scam a million times, it must be. Surely.

Your defense is funny

Here let me try again. Read it. You are saying simply because you have no 100% specific numbers it can't have happened okay

Let's take a look at the first 5 h of Darkcoin (XCoin at that time)...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4589219#msg4589219
Edufield said (after failed launch) that he will wait the next day to launch DRK (XCoin at that time) it is 11 pm.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4591407#msg4591407
Edufield disregard windows wallet and daemon and hurry up his launch, presumably to not have windows miners on board.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4592827#msg4592827
Edufield say he added four nodes for the launch at 4 am (5 hours later, despite his promise to wait). The 4 nodes from Edufield are 3 amazons AWS + another unknown (whois IP). Launch started at 3h54 am.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4593601#msg4593601
Edufield said the github version was not updated, nobody could compile and only Edufield was able to mine until that time. It is 5.09 am and Edufield instamined alone 1153 block at 500 DRK + 60 block at reward 277 = 593120 DRK for him alone in about 1 hour.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4593987#msg4593987
No windows wallet confirmed at 5h47 am, despite a user attempt to make one avaiable, that Edufield dismissed quickly.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4594096#msg4594096
Illodin, understand dev has instamined alot of coin.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4595573#msg4595573
From this list of nodes, at 8h34 am (4h40 after launch) there were 50 Amazon AWS node and 50 microsoft cloud computing instamining DRK (checked using IP whois service). This is 100/124 nodes using cloud computing to instamine DRK. We are at block 2870 and block reward is 500. From block 1153-1729 block reward is 277. After that it is 500 again hence 2294 block at 500 + 576 at 277 = 1306552 DRK (worth about 13M$ now) were instamined in less than 5 hour by Edufield and coworkers using about 100 cloud mining instances. Edufield himself instamined in not even 5 h from 600K to 1169K DRK ((1306K-600K)*100/124 + 600K) depending how many of the 100 cloud mining instance were its own. All this while having purposefully set the difficult ridiculously low and block reward 100 times what it is now.


SCAM = unfair and dishonest scheme = dash


This latest defence is so strange. Where are the victims ? what are you talking about it is there in black and white.

1. everyone who was told it was a fair launch LIKE ALL THE OTHER LAUNCHES AT THE TIME. - then prevented from mining fairly = scammed
2. everyone who was told there would be much more opportunity to mine ( then that got slashed by 75%) - prevented from mining the coins that were then taken away = scammed.

here are your victims.

3. everyone buying now thinking dash can go somewhere not knowing the scam it is will forever hold it back = being scammed.


Every dasher on here trying to scam others into supporting your scam = scammers.

I will be updating my scammers thread to add all of your names to it.

Denying a scam after it is proven time and time again to you in black and white = scam enabler and defender = scammer.

[AlexGR]

The victims you require are every miner that was scammed. Do you get it yet?

Thanks for confirming that.

Now we know who's noses are out of joint and who's making all the noise 

I just bought mine in the market where they were available in abundance. Maybe you should have too if had valued that much.

#fauxOutrage

NO i will not ever buy and support scams. They should be crushed not bought into.

Oh really, thought it was monero only.

Now it's people (miners that were scammed) sorry but anyone is able to complain if they choose.

Viewing the FACTS up thread the entire board should always be kept informed about the darkcoin past.

Dash will serve as an example so others are not Dashed in the future.

2 year old thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=560138.0 "darkcoin scam scam scam"

Price back then 0.001.
Price now 0.016.

I guess people that "avoided" the "scam", weren't "ripped off" by 16x gains. Good for them.

[generalizethis]

Was dash "fairly and transparently launched?" Not by a long shot. Doesn't matter if you bought cheap or are happy with dash yourself. As long as it's being advertised as something it's not, it's a scam. Some people like Justin Beiber, but if a friend sold me a Bieber album under the pretense that it was death metal, I was scammed, and even if I liked the album, it still doesn't mean I wasn't scammed.

[cryptohunter]

The victims you require are every miner that was scammed. Do you get it yet?

Thanks for confirming that.

Now we know who's noses are out of joint and who's making all the noise  

I just bought mine in the market where they were available in abundance. Maybe you should have too if had valued that much.

#fauxOutrage

NO i will not ever buy and support scams. They should be crushed not bought into.

Oh really, thought it was monero only.

Now it's people (miners that were scammed) sorry but anyone is able to complain if they choose.

Viewing the FACTS up thread the entire board should always be kept informed about the darkcoin past.

Dash will serve as an example so others are not Dashed in the future.

2 year old thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=560138.0 "darkcoin scam scam scam"

Price back then 0.001.
Price now 0.016.

I guess people that "avoided" the "scam", weren't "ripped off" by 16x gains. Good for them.

I see so if you benefit from a scam it's not a scam.

Sounds like dashers logic.

How about people buying into the scam now... I wonder if they will be x16 in 2 years? I very much doubt that. 

Either way I bear no grudges at all for those who bought and made money after the scam. I hope they find exits to other coins before it collapses.

We only need those that deliberately conducted the scam to be brought to justice. In fact if they had their coins taken from them I would have nothing else left to say about dash and would wish it well. Obviously lots of people who are not scammers are invested I would not wish them financial damage.

[AlexGR]

I see so if you benefit from a scam it's not a scam.

In game theory there are zero and non-zero sum games.

Ripping people off = zero-sum-game. Someone wins at the expense of another. There are hundreds of coins that fall under this pattern.

Giving value to a coin that begins its life as worthless, and further adding functionality (and by extension value) = non-zero-sum-game, as everyone benefits from increased functionality, network effect and value.

Does this mean that there are no uncertainties? Nope. Crypto remains a high-risk / high-reward type of investment, whether we are talking bitcoin or altcoins (even bigger uncertainties and risks).

[toknormal]

dashers logic

"Dashers logic" is what has given the coin its value to date.

We only need those that deliberately conducted the scam to be brought to justice. In fact if they had their coins taken from them I would have nothing else left to say about dash and would wish it well

I'm afraid I don't think I'll ever have any sympathy for this "scam" argument that you try to promote and actually find it slightly contemptible for its faux outrage and obsession with foisting your values on everyone.

You've had 2 years to put this information "out there". It's plastered all over bitcointalk. There are clones available to invest in. There are other coins with "perfect launches and alternatives versions of Dash's features. There have been bubbles, crashes and more FUDing in the occasional month than most coins get in a lifetime.

The dev hasn't f*cked off to the Bahamas to enjoy his "takings". He's taken god knows how much personal abuse, character malignment and professional attacks over everything from the launch to his coding. Despite that he's put in 2 years of solid work in growing not only the technical features but the development community and economic model on behalf of the investors. Not exactly "scam behaviour" IMO.

The market is free to value your "information" as it sees fit and isn't buying your faux outrage.

I think a bit of humility might be in order.

[generalizethis]

Playing the innovation card isn't going to help your argument as most of those here realize that pseudo-innovations like  X11, instantx, and darksend are very poor development choices and don't endear yourself to anyone somewhat knowledgeable about cryptosystems, but none of this dismisses that the dash community continues to promote misleading statements like "fairly and transparently launched." The only reason we're talking about it is that myself and others bring it up--the dash community would be glad to let it slide into oblivion and let people join their ranks ignorant of the coin's beginnings and sketchy claims of fair launches and decentralized governance.

[TPTB_need_war]

The [Dash] dev hasn't f*cked off to the Bahamas to enjoy his "takings". He's taken god knows how much personal abuse, character malignment and professional attacks over everything from the launch to his coding.

Which he completely deserves for his ostensibly illegal activities, which btw may take the coin to 0 if FinCEN and/or SEC action begins against him and his accomplice pumpers here in this forum.

He is a disgrace to crypto-currency and is helping to advance the popular idea that crypto-currency is only for nefarious activities. Which is hurting all of us, even those who didn't "invest" in DRK.

Erik Voorhees barely escaped prison by returning all the money.

And you are a disgrace for claiming we are a disgrace for pointing this out.

If this forum can't do something about allowing ostensibly illegal promotion or illegal unregistered investment scams such as the cases Dash and Rimbit which are obvious, then perhaps it is time to replace this forum. I am all for freedom-of-speech, when it is legal.

And of course he hasn't disappeared because the masternode lucrative scam is ongoing. Ditto Rimbit continues to sell more 100% premined tokens on Indiegogo in violation of Indiegogo's Prohibited Perks policy even after Indiegogo acknowledged my message alerting them to this over 2 weeks ago.

WTF has this world turned into a scam paradise where no one respects rudimentary consumer protection laws any more 

[toknormal]

And you are a disgrace for claiming we are a disgrace for pointing this out.

Nice to know we're all in the same disgraceful boat.

Hopefully FinCEN / SEC know their disgraces from their clowns

[AlexGR]

Legal and illegal are extremely relative terms, depending one's geographical coordinates.

Bitcoin may be legal somewhere, and somewhere else it may not be.

Mining coins may be legal somewhere, illegal somewhere else, taxable or non-taxable.

Coins could range from legally irrelevant, to currency (legal or illegal), to commodity or something else.

Encryption can also be very relative in terms of its legal status.

[TPTB_need_war]

Nice to know we're all in the same disgraceful boat.

Legal and illegal are extremely relative terms, depending one's geographical coordinates.

These Dash accomplice criminal mindsets promote jurisdictional gaming of common sense law, but they will fail because they are entirely (objectively) unethical:

As I had explained to AlexGR upthread, objective ethics is not playing in zero sum games when a non-zero sum game is available that expands the pie for everyone. I realize he hails from some Communist culture where they had to steal from each other, so he was taught to not have ethics.

I don't know what any particular country does, but the idea of countries claiming jurisdiction over those doing business with their own residents, even if the business is located elsewhere is not unique to the US. It is very widespread if not nearly universal. Most countries would not stand up to the US over this not only because the US is powerful and gets away with laws like FACTA and strongarming everyone into MLATs, but just because they want the same powers for themselves. US companies have been on the receiving end here in several high profile cases and probably many smaller ones.

Any nation with rudimentary securities regulation will have issues with crypto-scams offering a quasi-legal boiler-room prospectus like this one:

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html

For those who still think global cooperation isn't coming:

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/taxes/obama-wants-worldwide-taxes/

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/panama-papers-used-for-political-purposes/

[generalizethis]

Legal and illegal are extremely relative terms, depending one's geographical coordinates.

Bitcoin may be legal somewhere, and somewhere else it may not be.

Mining coins may be legal somewhere, illegal somewhere else, taxable or non-taxable.

Coins could range from legally irrelevant, to currency (legal or illegal), to commodity or something else.

Encryption can also be very relative in terms of its legal status.

You should be concerned with Arizona and US law as that's where Evan lives and lived when he instamined/created dash. He also created a masternode ROI sheet and actively promoted dash as a great investment. Hopium and time will last so long, then you'll have to deal with the reality of a fincen or SEC investigation--that is if dash is ever successful enough to get on their radar (doubtful), but sad to know your success will bring you closer to your downfall as it did with paycoin.

[iCEBREAKER]

A scam requires VICTIMS.

In fact it doesn't, only a successful one does.

This is getting hilarious.

Hope you guys are getting well paid for your time.

So a scam with no victims is now an unsuccessful scam.

A fraudulent scheme performed by a dishonest individual, group, or company in an attempt obtain money or something else of value.

I'm not even stating whether Dash is a successful or unsuccessful scam, only pointing out that a "scam" does not require victims, it is based on the actions of those involved.

For the sake of clarity, let's avoid unnecessary quibbling.

I believe we can all agree Dash is (up to this moment in time) a superlatively successful scam.

The ostensible market cap on CMC indicates Dash is the king of shitcoins, but we don't have to necessarily endorse that sordid state of affairs to recognize its prevalence.


Toknormal, you are a obviously a fairly well-read guy.  But we both know you must ultimately yield to a Plus 10 Sword of Logic when wielded by the capable hands of one such as smooth.

The more you struggle, the more his artfully constructed tar pit envelops and drags you down.

I only dare to contradict smooth on exceedingly rare occasions when I have an airtight, overwhelmingly persuasive case to the contrary.

As your analytical and rhetorical skills pale in comparison to my own, I strongly advise you not engage with superior forces in direct confrontation.  The facts simply are not on your side, and the more you protest the worse for the wear is your cheerleader narrative.

[toknormal]

entertainment

I.

Think.

I.

Can.

Improve.

On.

Your.

Staccato.

Paragraph's.

Style.

And.

Content.

[generalizethis]

entertainment

I.

Think.

I.

Can.

Improve.

On.

Your.

Staccato.

Paragraph's.

Style.

And.

Content.

But

can't

make

a

case

for

dash

being

fairly

and

transparently

launched,

which is what you would need to do to prove that it wasn't breaching truth in advertising. What icebreaker failed to point out was that it isn't necessarily smooth's superior debate capabilities that are making you look petty, ill informed, and just plain wrong, it's that smooth started with the correct assumption, which saves him the time and effort you use to go down paths of argumentation that have little do with the topic or are only put there to distract (emotional ploys, false statements, needless side debates, etc.). Though, if you're getting paid by the word or by how much time you waste, congratulations on an outstanding job.

I believe anyone reading the thread's title and the dasher's response will agree that the instamine (at least trying to silence it) matters a lot to the dash community. The only debate is how it effects the future of dash legally, financially, failures of decentralization, ect....

[toknormal]

fairly and transparently launched

Be advised that markets make up their own minds what their definition of "fair" and "transparent" is and don't take their queues from conflicted internet trolls.

For my part, "fair" meant I could get my hands on a reasonable amount if I so wished.

"Transparent" meant that the project was open sourced, worked on by public, non-anonymous entities, created public roadmaps, delivered on them and featured a transparent, public-consensus blockchain.

Sorry that doesn't square with your myopic criteria in valuing an electronic asset, but since investors are spending their own money and not yours, you might just have to swallow it 

[generalizethis]

fairly and transparently launched

Be advised that markets make up their own minds what their definition of "fair" and "transparent" is and don't take their queues from conflicted internet trolls.

For my part, "fair" meant I could get my hands on a reasonable amount if I so wished.

"Transparent" meant that the project was open sourced, worked on by public, non-anonymous entities, created public roadmaps, delivered on them and featured a transparent, public-consensus blockchain.

Sorry that doesn't square with your myopic criteria in valuing an electronic asset, but since investors are spending their own money and not yours, you might just have to swallow it 

We are still arguing over what Evan did or didn't do during the instamine--nothing transparent about that. But thanks for trying to muddy the waters as always.

[toknormal]

We are still arguing over what Evan did or didn't do during the instamine

I noticed that.

If I were you I'd look into some of this stuff  

[TPTB_need_war]

fairly and transparently launched

Be advised that markets make up their own minds what their definition of "fair" and "transparent" is and don't take their queues from conflicted internet trolls.

For my part, "fair" meant I could get my hands on a reasonable amount if I so wished.

"Transparent" meant that the project was open sourced, worked on by public, non-anonymous entities, created public roadmaps, delivered on them and featured a transparent, public-consensus blockchain.

Sorry that doesn't square with your myopic criteria in valuing an electronic asset, but since investors are spending their own money and not yours, you might just have to swallow it  

We are still arguing over what Evan did or didn't do during the instamine--nothing transparent about that. But thanks for trying to muddy the waters as always.

He applies 'fair' to the availability of the token for purchase on exchanges but neglects the non-availability of the fair availability during the instamining. He refuses to apply 'transparent' to the instamined distribution.

He applies 'transparent' the development of the open source, but fails to apply 'fair' to who gets funded to do that development, since the control of the votes for the funding coming from masternodes is controlled by the distribution of the currency, which brings up back to the lack of transparency in the instamine.

As usual Bullshit Bingo:

Bullshit Bingo in perfection.

"Buzzword bingo is generally played in situations where audience members feel that the speaker, in an effort to mask a lack of actual knowledge, is relying too heavily on buzzwords rather than providing relevant details."