Bitcoin Forum

Is that true? Is he really banned from this forum?

This 'community' never seizes to amaze me.

He was banned for a little while, but if he's able to post here now I guess not?

He claims being able to post new threads (in off-topic sub, at least), but being locked out replying to any thread, anywhere.

John, Theymos ? Could you please confirm this?

Yes, he is banned. Recently I partially removed his ban so he could PM people, but clearly this was a mistake.

Why was he banned?

He was trolling continuously. He hasn't changed: He edited that poll after people had already voted to create misleading results.

So now he's permabanned for life?

I can't speak to the rest but personally I find the poll system infuriating.  I cannot, personally, seem to edit a poll and make any sense of the answer if people have already voted in the poll.  If I delete a field then the results of the next field appear where that question used to be.  You are saying he deliberately deleted a poll result and the next higher result showed up?  Or did he change the context of a poll by changing the words?


  

For what it's worth I understand that you are the one who needs to deal with all the community yelling and you have decided Matthew is a troll.  

Ok.

But he makes good points now and again and you are censoring him.  Not allowing him to speak freely.  
He is not the enemy, the scammers and thieves are the enemy.

For what it's worth.

And let me restate that I recognize you have made your decision after, likely, dealing with hundreds of complaints.  And that cannot be any fun.

I'm interested in this snippet...

"letting Garr225 scam because they are friends..."

Did I miss this somewhere on the forum?  Does this have truth to it?

The ban will not expire automatically. I may review it later.


He can post elsewhere. People aren't banned on /r/Bitcoin just for trolling, for example.

Sorta. Inaba caught Garr225 bidding up his own auctions. Garr apologized, but some people saw it as Theymos letting him off easy since Garr holds some of the forums' donated bitcoins.

Is this the official bitcoin forum? I mean, I'm pretty sure bitcoin is about as decentralized as it gets. This forum in no way governs Bitcoin. It's more like a fanboy site that got popular. As for it's "censorship", anyone is welcome to go someplace else. It's just run by a few guys with some spare time on their hands. Hell, go make your own site if you want and call it the official bitcoin forum. This forum is no different than Facebook, 4chan, Reddit, or any other website and forum.

And now ladies and gentlemen, this thread is derailed.

Ehh.. not really. He stopped using this forum a long time ago. And Satoshi isn't Bitcoin. If Bill Gates used Facebook, does that make Facebook Microsoft's (Windows) official social media website? The dude didn't even operate this website as far as I am aware of. He's probably posted on many other websites as well. That doesn't make this site, or any others more or less special than another. Let alone official.

Well, then by that logic, where on this website does it say it's not run by aliens and Al Gore? Hell, theymos could be Elvis! And I'm eating jello.

Banned for trolling? But it's different when you're VIP-donator?

(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262437.0)



Against

- Troll newbies at Newbies-section to lose their bitcoins (bitstamp bitcoins) and call it a social experiment
- Without a permission, penetrate test a web page that you've sold to the victim.
- Still be at the default trust list that many of the even senior members know nothing about

...and something that has not happened straight here in the forums:
- Ask access or passwords to others' #bitcoin-otc/WoT accounts by PM'ing them. I hope nobody fell for this

My point exactly. By following that logic, it leaves you in a very grey area. Not matter how extreme the speculation is. Just because something doesn't claim it is not, doesn't mean that it is.

But to wrap this up: What I am saying is that no matter what happens on this forum, or any other website, it doesn't change Bitcoin. It's still running by itself, and will continue too long after the both of us are gone. This forum doesn't make or break Bitcoin anymore than any other website does.

I always enjoyed Matthews posts & antics. Maybe I'm a minority.

I feel the same.

Some of the posts were actually quite helpful and informative.

I can think of many who are much worse trolls and/or abusers, yet aren't banned.

Matthew donated 10 BTC. There have been several VIPs and Donators who were banned (eg. Goat) or scammer-tagged (eg. pirateat40, cablepair).

That is censorship.  Why are you NOT supporting free speech?  How is Matthew any more a troll than Inaba?

How does censoring Matthew and not censoring Inaba help the community in ANY way? 

Surely you cannot believe BFL is legitimate... or your buddy TF's illegal ponzi scheme and unregulated bank.  Of course those guys advertise.  Personally I find it disturbing that you show TF with positive default trust and you still allow both he and Inaba to advertise.... yet you ban Matthew who is a friend to the community. 

Your censorship model CLEARLY favors the bitcoin millionaires over the community.  You are now acting just like any government favoring those who benefit you while crushing any opposing view that doesn't fit with your model of capital redistribution.    Just like the ignore button favors shutting up the vocal. 

Your lack of a 'support' button and only an option of an 'ignore' button causes the entire community to have negative feelings about vocal posters (like matthew) and these people never get to see all his followers.  I'm confident a 'support' button would glow even brighter than his 'ignore' button.

You are gaming the system and specifically shutting down vocal members in favor of those who never say anything controversial.  Why do you fear free speech so much?  Clearly you are not an American because we WORSHIP free speech.

You are acting no differently than the governments who wish us to use their FIAT, no different at all.  No different from Assad who would rather kill off his population than allow dissenting views in Syria.  It makes no sense to ban someone for expressing their ideas and not ban known scammers like Inaba.

My two cents.

He got banned again?

LOL!

That's what happens when you give Site Admin the shits!

  :D

1. Viceroy, you were actually caught doing what Mathew was banned (resetting poll results and deleting inconvenient poll questions you yourself devised) - evidence: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241369.msg2561708#msg2561708

2. Theymos, why don't you ban Viceroy?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=273066.msg2928097#msg2928097

Honestly losing more and more respect.. You're telling me you're against trolling so much to 'ban' someone, but you let scammers walk around free with a tag? Whats wrong with that picture? Sounds like censorship to me.

P.S. MNW isn't someone who I'm affiliated with, so a neutral party that isn't pleased on whats going down.

Well, the forum policy since a long time ago was to ban trolls (as they impede the speech of others), and tag scammers. Scammers aren't banned outright as they could repay and resolve their issues, but they might still be banned if they start trolling. I believe terrytibbs (and Matthew himself) was one of the prime examples here.

I'm sorry to say that, but I kinda agree with Viceroy.
If you can edit a poll and remove entries which votes are consolidated with next entry, the problem lies in the polling system.

Maybe you can just flag Matthew so that he's not allowed to post polls, and let him voice his opinions again?  :)

Oh, sorry I misunderstood, I see now how trolling could be so much worse than someone stealing hundreds even thousands of dollars worth of items, money, and bitcoin.
The thing about scammers, they don't pay back shit.

If you were to think from a different point of view, you'll notice that the tag is essentially a pseudo-ban on the user's account here anyway. Most scammers would abandon ship at that point so the account is not used anyway afterwards. That's the same with the new rating system, where an account that obtained negative ratings would be abandoned unless the user wants to amend his wrongs. Trolls are banned outright as they do not care about doing business/getting funds from others - merely posting worthless stuff and trying to derail discussions.

Now that I've thought about it, trolls/spammers = want to post stuff and hence the way of banning them is to keep them from posting, whereas scammers = want to get people to send them funds and hence the way of banning them is to keep their credibility next to nil, where a scammer tag or the new rating system does.

I'm with gweedo on this one.  If MNW gets banned for trolling there's plenty of other people who need to be banned as well.

15 people only ? Am I in that list ? Cause I'll admit I've done my share of trolling too (Because of the evil wine).
You probably should put yourself in the list too, cause your arguments with TF quickly become a trollfest. ;D

Anyway, this still feels unfair.

And I don't have the slightest involvment with Matthew either.
(Full disclosure, I sent him a PM once, asking why one of his post was locked, and he replied)

To me, it not even an issue of trolling (I despise the word, actually).  Matthew contributes to the community not only through speech, but through action.  Whose vision was it that helped Bitcoin Mag launch?  Matthew's, of course.  Even his ill-advised community bet was made in an attempt to show the community how foolish it  can be by carelessly handing out BTC to total strangers (e.g Pirate).  Unfortunately for Matthew, the mere existence of the bet caused some people to act in ways which cost them money.  But it takes a stand-up guy to acknowledge his responsibility to pay back debts he was never prepared to pay back, and as far as I'm aware, Matthew has paid, and is continuing to pay, the debts he owes.

In my opinion, not only shouldn't Matthew be banned, he has downright admirable qualities, and it's a disservice to the community to ban him.

I think the forums URL was forum.bitcoin.com. If seems pretty official.

Let me help out with your logic:
The way to ban scammers is ... by banning them.  No more posts, no more PMs, no more problems, amirite?
I understand this is theymos' sandbox, and he sets the rules.  I'm fine with that.  I guess i'm also fine with this half-baked apologia.  Nevermind.

Edit:  This forum seems to be a big deal to Matthew.   Please unban him, if for no reason other than "it's a nice thing to do."
Edit2 @Kouye: done.

+1

Please don't troll too much here. We need to keep this clean and respectful.
This actually makes sense keeping the scammers around for at least those reasons:
- Some were decorated with the tag and came out being legit, after all.
- If I was a scammer, I would MUCH prefer being banned than just getting a tag. Banned, just forget it, and turn the page, much easier, psychologically.

I agree; Matt's a good guy, and I'd rather have him around than not.  Hopefully this ban isn't a permanent thing.

This is crazy you ban him but you wont ban the person that offered to pay 1btc to the person that hacks/destroys my forum

 ( someone must have taken him up on his offer as my forum was hacked and destroyed last night )

imho, Matthew is more like a Jester than a Troll.

A jester entertains and often provides value and insight. Trolling is just malicious and annoying.

Dank would be passing the joint, not bogarting.

http://uppix.com/f-TFTrust520c10830013aa4c.png


Err... 2 days ago?
Was he even able to post trust feedback at that time?

Yeah, this place is a mess.  What happened to the other projects to start an alternate forum?   That's what Bitcoin needs right now, somewhere impartial and moderated properly.

Well this is a veteran battle so will just say there must be worse than Matt out there trolling.

It's still in my signature (the bright red link).  Your input is most welcome...

I've contacted him regarding him seeking a programmer for a project. I've worked on it for a bit and then decided I wasn't really interested. I've already expressed that to him before before, and then signed off from Skype. (I don't generally use skype unless I have a specific reason to talk to someone there, so I haven't signed back into skype for weeks).

No money or coins were exchanged. This event was months ago, and MNW suspects that I will steal the idea / assets and launch the project myself. I'm quite offended by that, but after talking to him I understood his point of view and MNW has had that happen to him before, even through he was trolling about how I should ask theymos for rebuttals in the trust system if I want to respond ::)

Keep in mind the trust feedback is about what he thinks I may do. It's not entirely unjustified however, if I was him I'd share similar feelings given the devotion he has for that project.

I offered in my thread to pay all the costs.  Come read the thread, gweedo:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=244678.0

I'm with Theymos.  Trolling aside, read through this whole thread and decide for yourself:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101751.msg1113117#msg1113117

I guess you have never made a mistake in your life. He is paying it back.

I wonder how Matthew would feel of he was reading this now.

I don't get it either.

Matthews Post are always either true, hilariously sarcastic or at least funny, I never seen him posting the pure rant you see from most trolls.

There are so many much worse trolls here, banning him just makes no sense and is at best personal motivated and doesn't show the neutral judgement that you would expect from a mod or admin.

MNW is to Bitcointalk as whiskers75 is to CoinChat.

For this reason, I support the unbanning of MNW, he may be a bad person who let some people down and trolled a bit, but he is a part of this forum and should not be censored, as part of the Bitcoin ethos.

Theymos, I don't think you did yourself a favor here.
I am disappointed. And now, for the first time, considering moving on elsewhere.

Ente

Is there another place with active community?

Theymos should listen to the community. Community has donated a lot bitcoins to this forum, though I don't know are those coins used to pay salary to theymos or something.

This.
We (the community) need to know what those BTC are used for.

Then create a new thread, please. This one is about Matthew being banned, not about BTCT fortune.

I read it. If that thread truly, exactly and accurately represents what happened, then Matthew screwed up and cheated on people.


Is this evidenced somewhere?

Paying "back" implies he did take money in the first place, which he didn't.

There is a full list here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140654).

I guess he cannot update it anymore.
I see Anduck was in the list... So, Anduck, how did it end for you?

He paid me (not the sum I bet but a little part of it, something still!). I agreed this as a settlement for his debt to me.

Thanks.

1. I think Theymos did right by banning Matthew from posting (I enjoyed MNW's posts but had no idea about the bet case), yet at the same time allowing him to send and receive PMs.

2. Ability to receive PMs and replying to them is essential for Matthew to communicate with his creditors (people he has financial liabilities towards) and essential for his creditors to reach him.

3. As soon as Matthew reaches settlements with all the creditors and pays them, the ban may be lifted.

The second-biggest community would be http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/
Then there is planning and organizing going on for a new forum:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=244678

About the coins: Mods are paid here now. Both from ad-revenues and donations, as I read.

Ente

He didn't get banned for that bet, he got banned for his "troll messages"/trolling.

I see people who have scammed being here in the forums as Hero members without any tags, just carrying a little neg rating from theymos. For example bulanula who scammed over 22 bitcoins, had scammer tag for a while..

I don't think this has anything to do with the current ban.

He got a scammer tag for this, which he got removed after reaching a Settlement with all people involved (I won't use creditors as Matthew refused to take any money in advance from any participant). The ones outstanding are people that have left this forum for good, giving him no way to resolve this.

After that he got the untrustworthy tag.

This story is over now. Banning him nearly 1 Year later would just be ridiculous.

1. I am a silly newbie then  ;) Still learning the rules of the house.

2. Are there any examples of ''troll messages''?

Anything which isn't in line with the bitcoin gospel is considered trolling. Gladly that isn't theymos's definition or I would not longer be here. ;)

VIP / Donator Fun Facts:

38 VIPs, 4 SCAMMERs -> 10.5% SCAM
108 Donators, 4 SCAMMERs, 1 Untrustworthy -> 3.7% SCAM, 0.925% Untrustworthy

If in doubt, trust a Donator!  ;D

Just the numbers would suggest that MemoryDealers is more likely to be a scammer than.. packet7 ::)

Major Bitcoin Preachers don't have the best track records either, Bruce Wagner ring a bell?
Works for me!

AFAIK only funds from advertising(~25%) are used to pay Moderators and Administrators. No donation funds are used for those payments.

As far as I can tell, banning MNW seems to be a consistent case of enforcing the forum rules. Period.

But, and I think I stated that on several occasions, I do have a lot of respect for Matthew and it makes me somewhat sad to no longer have him around.

I guess the right thing to do here would be to lift the ban as soon as the moderators find that appropriate.




Matthew held the SCAMMER tag for a while. He paid back, no shit!

PS: Just to clarify, only admins can lift bans here, not moderators. I usually consult with theymos on stuff like this though, and would prefer to leave the decision to him here.

Which is perfectly understandable.

You were not the one banning him for voicing out his opinion about this Garr255 scam thing trolling...
I wish you were in charge here, actually.

Ooops, did I just troll?  :-X

Seriously, theymos, I understand you might have felt uneasy about some of his posts, but this really looks like an abuse of power.
You need to let people express what they think, including conspiracy theories about you, too.
That's one of the burdens that comes with your position.
If people were not globally trusting you, this forum wouldn't be the shade of what it is, you're safe and don't have to fear those random rants!

Please relax and reconsider!  :)

Well, to be honest here I don't think theymos can please everyone. :( I remember that we got a lot of requests for Matthew to be banned after the Pirate event too. I guess if we went for the all-ban policy for scammers Matthew wouldn't be around to amend his bet by repaying partially here...

Agreed, but this was a year ago, and is completely irrelevant, here.

He was banned for trolling.
Not because he screwed up earlier - which everyone, including him, agrees upon.
Not because people asked theymos to ban him in mp (hopefully).
Just because of... trolling.

1. Can someone post the definition of trolling?

2. Can someone show examples of the trolling by MNW (links, pictures, etc)?

Wasn't there something about zhoutong as well? He hasn't got a scammer tag but I read lots of people lost money with him.

There is nothing stopping him from creating another account.  He can, and most certainly will, continue to be around.  And if he wants, he can troll with his new account.

The point of the ban, as far as I can figure, is that trolling from a new account is far less effective.

1. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll
2. just check his post history

from what I have been hearing and seeing theymos is good friends with some of the biggest scammers on here and there are far to many people paying off mods so nothing is going to change anytime soon

This post is not about theymos, please stay focused.

This post is about someone who was either:

- banned according to forum rules, in which case I will compile a list of trolls to help theymos cleaning up, cause he obviously missed a couple hundreds in his ban wave.
- banned because theymos felt like banning him, in which case I hope for some gentlemen conclusion.

my post is relevant to the thread as its more than likely that Matthew N. Wright never paid of the right people or he had info on the mods/admin that they are trying to cover up  the few people on this forum that know what's going on will know what I mean

Had a scammer tag for a shitty bet he didn't collect money on? That one? BFL made a bet that they failed to deliver on for a very long time, donating 1000 BTC to charity, then formed their own charity and donated the BTC to? You cant compare the two, Matthew didn't scam shit on that bet, there is a difference between blatantly stealing and making a joke bet you cant afford.

+2 :-)

He's far too self centered to not be reading it daily.

And I'm sure he's laughing his ass off that you guys still buy his bullshit after all he's done.  Y'all getting trolled and don't even know it. Amazes me how dumb smart people can be when you press the right buttons.

Not everyone here is for the person, but for the cause. Banning for trolling is censorship, and against what the community is. How about you give a trolling tag, and ban scammers. There is a reason there is an ignore button, who gives a shit what he says just click ignore.

Edit: I mean come on
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=274749.0

The guy even tried to fuck the entire forum via the admin, no ban, or scammer tag. what the hell is wrong with that picture?

This - if MNW is banned, others are banned.

Try to understand they are only trying to do what's best for us, dependless on their own relations..
Or maybe it's theymos' forum and he can do what he want with it? ;)

Maybe MNW trolled a bit too much finally?

But there certainly are more people that should get banned, too...

this.

/thread

Do whats best for us? We didn't vote them in based off of their opinion of how the forum should be ran, who other than the people are to say what is best for us? Whats best for us is what WE say.
Trolling isn't that bad, I have a shaky memory, but didn't theymos try to sell off what was it $500,000 worth of shares of a scam business right before they were caught..?

Edit:Edit badmaths: $78k back then, 551k today.

There is no voting, this isn't a democracy. Banning someone from a private website isn't censorship, that's ridiculous and shows you don't truly understand what censorship and freedom of speech mean. It's a privately owned forum, and theymos is exercising his right as property owner/administrator to manage as he sees fit. If you disagree, you are free to leave. You are not free to try and take the property owner's rights away on a whim just because you disagree with something he did. 

Actually I'm just going to stop here and quote DeathandTaxes here, he said it perfectly. Edit: Actually you were a part of this conversation about another troll who was banned, I guess you just like infringing on the rights of others whenever you disagree with them. Nice, you should get a job in government work.  ::)


Bolded the important part, that's why banning someone isn't censorship. I don't know how much more simpler it can be made. The only valid point I've seen made is that there are others who should be banned, but that's hardly new. Unbanning Matthew doesn't seem like the best solution to that particular problem.

Hey guys check out my new signature. (No I'm not trolling, I really thing we are taking a turn for the worse.)

it is not true we can check out but we cant leave as we are not aloud to delete our accounts

have you seen the amount of old accounts that are popping back up after all this time the accounts cant be phished cant be brute forced that only leaves to options forum compromised or admin are resetting passwords and using the themselves or selling them

( I know of at least 1 user that regally hacks the forum so I am sure there are more )

Which one?

Is it? On the other hand, that discussion would be totally offtopic.

It isn't your account, it belongs to the forum/website. You're allowed to use it once you agree to the user agreement you skipped over when you registered your account, you can put a unique name on it, you can make a password to restrict access, but in the end it still belongs to the website. Same applies to say...online game accounts (not necessarily paid before you think of world of warcraft or something, free games are the same), you don't own them either and you can be banned from accessing them at any time.

Again, I'm speaking strictly from a property rights point of view since that's the direction the discussion has taken, with the claims of censorship and violation of free speech. Just trying to get you to see the big picture here, beyond a sole account.


All I've seen from you is guesses and speculation, but if you have something helpful to share, please share it with the people that need it (not me).

what I know is pointless telling theymos as its about him and his friends

how would it look to everyone if the people running the biggest bitcoin forum were proven to be the biggest scammers / supporting the biggest scammers out there ?

It would look very bad. So why not post it, if it exists? People will see it even if it gets removed. If they banned you on the spot it would prove them corrupt, so it wouldn't matter even if they stopped you.

@ Badbear,

Regardless of what Theymos is entitled to do or not do, I can tell you that my suspicion has increased, and trust decreased, with regards to Theymos as a result of inconsistent moderation, claims that he is protecting scammers, and his avoidance of this thread.  I bet I'm not the only one.

Inconsistent moderation will be caught and scrutinized by others. If enough people are unhappy about it, it's just going to make your job and Thymos's job a lot more annoying.  It also makes this site a target among those that are inconsistently moderated, even if a ban just means they'll create 10 sock puppet  accounts just to troll you harder.  

There are more than "property rights" to consider when it comes to the ownership of forum accounts. Your legal view is very incomplete, even though it is completely in line with the common practice of most community providers.

One thing that most people forget about is the amount of copyrighted content a forum user usually creates. For example, as far as I know, under U.S. law this content may legally become the exclusive property of the forum / forum owners. In most countries in Europe for example, this is practically impossible. Which could make it illegal for the forum provider to delete or modify that content without the consent of the user. It is also practically impossible to request this consent in advance in some kind of EULA before the user actually is able to produce said content.  Also, don't make the mistake that for a U.S. based forum, only U.S. law applies. All in all, complicated stuff, really.
All I'm saying is, don't be too sure about the common practice of forum websites to actually be legal.

And now back on topic:
It's still all about MNW being a troll, which is a fact.
It's about the forum being practically theymos' playground, which is also a fact.
Discuss as we may, all we can do is speak up for MNW, which I personally do, in a very moderate way.

I agree with this.  Theymos has the right to do whatever he wants with this forum, however: That doesn't mean he *should*.

He can do it, it just makes me respect him a lot less.

Lol what ever buddy, banning someone from a private website is censorship I guess you don't know what censorship is, here is the wiki definition
"Censorship is the suppression of speech or other public communication which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by a government, media outlet or other controlling body. It can be done by governments and private organizations or by individuals who engage in self-censorship. It occurs in a variety of different contexts including speech, books, music, films, and other arts, the press, radio, television, and the Internet for a variety of reasons including national security, to control obscenity, child pornography, and hate speech, to protect children, to promote or restrict political or religious views, and to prevent slander and libel. It may or may not be legal. Many countries provide strong protections against censorship by law, but none of these protections are absolute and it is frequently necessary to balance conflicting rights in order to determine what can and cannot be censored."

This site is supposed to be about freedom, and so far the only freedom here is for scammers.
Does theymos even own this site? Someone gave him admin rights and a next there was Coup?
Honestly trying to scam, and banning people for no reason, that's a shitty admin.

I just have to say.  I think its funny that Matthew N. Wright thinks its perfectly ok to censor other people, but when it happens to him its not fair.  The very first post of his I ever replied on, I disagreed with his position and he deleted my comments out.  I re-added them and he deleted them again.  I then had to start another post to get them seen.  It was clear he was trying to skew the conversation to his point of view. 

How does it taste MNW?  Get a taste of your own medicine. 

The point is thus: if you don't like it, you can always leave, and create another forum where there is less censorship.  If enough people like that new forum, they'll flock to it.  Otherwise, they'll stay here.  I don't think this is nearly as big a deal as people are making it out to be.


You're mistaken; this site is supposed to be about Bitcoin.  Take my advice above, if you're so offended.

I have been thinking about this post

As the account snaz31 belongs to this forum I am putting in a request that the 3btc that was scammed from me to be returned to me at the following address > 1Fz9J1zduFYSzhmbKtEjVewNyugjKKnfec as you have admitted that the account belongs to you. You are legally obligated to refund me

Thanks

zack

Nice try, but BadBear is not the owner of the forum.
Also, just because something doesn't belong to you, the damage you do with it while you use it, is entirely your own business.

"oh, this isn't my appartment, the landlord's gotta pay his rent to himself, because it's his property after all"

looks like they just changed the t&c so it doesn't matter now

Bitcoin is decentralized. There is no "official" bitcoin forum. You are entitled to your opinion, but it is nothing more than an opinion.

Complaining will do absolutely nothing unless Theymos has a change of heart, which I don't think he will.

I hope Bitcoin EU Convention 2013 (Amsterdam, Netherlands September 26th~28th) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=266951) won't suffer from that since Matthew is Coordination Consultant and his activity on this forum could be an important contribution to this event.

Update: it already suffers since it is not so easy to find the correct link to its forum thread, and Matthew's threads are locked without a link to the correct one

How is this the "official" bitcoin forum? Theymos owns and runs it. He isn't Satoshi. Even if he was, Satoshi put bitcoins out there to be uncontrollable by anyone. Even if he changed his mind, he's just as much an owner as I am.

I could mine my own bitcoins, buy things with no 3rd party interference, and even run my own bitcoin forum. Nothing about bitcoin is centralized.

Wow, you're all severely starved for entertainment. It takes 7 pages to discuss one person getting banned?

I personally followed PinkiePie daily and rushed home to the computer to see that days posts. I loved PinkiePie's sophisticated and complex trolling but didn't get all wet when the ban happened. Theymos can ban whoever he wants too. I hope you fuckin clowns understand we're all here at his sole discretion. Matthews "where's the new forum" crap and the picking with Theymos constantly was kind of getting old anyway. If this was my business I probably would have done the same thing except sooner.

@Theymos, If you let Matthew come back can you reinstate PinkiePie too? That's a pure double-whammy of entertainment. lol

Even a thirteen year old knows that censorship is bad:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=280190


It's un-American!  

Besides anyone who doesn't like Matthew can just ignore him, that's the whole point right?  Or are we admitting by this action that the ignore feature doesn't work?  If it doesn't work it should be eliminated.  Eliminating the poster is cowardly.  

In America we don't fear people who use words, we converse with them.  I fear no conversation.  Censorship is pure evil and it makes Satoshi weep.  


Perhaps Theymos should step down and let someone else be in charge?  There are plenty of qualified admins who can take over the baton.  Step down Theymos, unless your ego won't let you, it's best for the community.

Other things that would be beneficial to the community include:
   A definition of the forum hierarchy and how decisions are made
   Open public discussions about policies and their implementation
   A posting that includes rules and ban policies
   A privacy policy and a COPPA policy

Hell let's put DiamondCardz in charge for a while.  At 13 he sees the evil of censorship, it's surprising that as a full grown adult the site admin does not.

This site is way too populated to allow this heavy handed arbitrary, non-published, seat of the pants decision making.  This is why, in the real world, we have rules and regulations.  Here in Theymos world it's just easier to hit the ban-hammer.

Oh what power we wield... it's gone to our head.  Theymos must think himself the king of the universe.

/me runs away from the arbitrary ban-hammer

/me turns to see the current count against the sites number one advertiser BFL
Should Butterfly Labs (BFL) get a Scammer tag?
Yes   - 772 (77.5%)
No   - 224 (22.5%)
Total Voters: 996
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155730.140

Lol

Yes, although I don't appreciate the "At 13" kind of stuff. I have a very high IQ compared to my peers, and I go to a selective school.  ;)

In a decentralized and ideal community, age doesn't and shouldn't matter. Hell, if an 8 year old is mature enough to handle it, why shouldn't an 8 year old be a moderator or administrator (theoretically speaking here)?

However, I agree. Censorship isn't good, and it definitely doesn't belong in Bitcoin. You can't pull the "forums are centralized" arguments, because you can take action to make forums more decentralized.

Unban Matthew, theymos: it's the correct thing to do, rather than this complete mess.

Same LOL :D

Lmao. ;)


There will be soon, it's pretty obvious.

If anything, the $600,000 is a lost cause, at this rate.

it's getting tyrannical up in here.

This exactly.

Off topic: Go Diamond for admin! ;D

People are getting fed up. There's been no real response to requests for MNW to be unbanned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am7eHyJ8_1Y

Time to start humming that as you read Bitcointalk. -.-

Is this correct?

Orrrr he could have been banned for spamming. Also Theymos isn't the only one with the ban hammer. What if it was a global mod who banned him, or a regular mod who requested he be banned who has no access to those tainted ad dollars? For that matter, I'm confused why people keep bringing up the ad revenue as Theymos' "source of corruption". The forum's wallet is public, and you can see that those ad BTC aren't being spent, wouldn't he need to be benefiting from BFL's advertising payments in order for it to be corrupting him? Approximately 25% of the forum's ad revenue is split between the forum's 36+ Staff members. Looking at the last ad auction, had Inaba not bid, the person who would have got his spot bid .75 BTC less per spot than him. That x 3 slots = 2.5 BTC less that the Ad auction would have raised, had Inaba not recieved any slots. 25% of that would have been used for Mod Payments, split at least 36 ways. Do you really think that Theymos is being corrupted by the extra .017 BTC that Josh's ad purchase gave him? Something just doesn't add up on that front.

Not true at all! If you look at John K's profile he when from a global mod to Administrator https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=31288 which would mean he can ban people as well! Since Theymos has the same position!

Don't Spread lies mod to cover up for other people/your boss!

JohnK, Theymos, Badbear, Maged, MoonShadow, and Psy can all ban people. I'm not sure what your point is in quoting that Theymos isn't the only one with the ban hammer, and then telling me John K can as well, when thats exactly what I said.

I'm not going to spread lies to "protect my boss" I just personally like the guy. However, I will speak my mind if it means allowing people to see things differently, because right now, this is insanity. If someone breaks 100 rules, but is fighting for one thing, as soon as they get disiplined, it was 100% unwarranted, and the mobs assemble in the streets.

No it sounded like you were pawning off that these people can Ban people without talking to the higher ups, but in theory we have two admins now. So they are really the only people that should be with the IP banning. Am I not correct?

Well yes and no, Global Mods are allowed to ban people without talking to the Admins, although normally only on clear cut cases, and I'm not sure if they are allowed to IP ban or not. But anyway, who said anything about IP banning, Viceroy is banned for a week for spamming, its not a permaban or IP ban.

And Inaba is free to post his bullshit for whole year. Now who is right about BFL being scam and who is jealous for not ordering his ASIC? Mathew made some very bad moves and is a general jerk but he makes useful posts from time to time.

http://www.bildites.lv/images/0mve5t9bdhc4b6muniz9.png

I'm confused, you seem angry yet to be agreeing with what Salty said?

yes I can see that I didn't spell out my angle that well. What I was trying to get at, is that Theymos is the end all be all and now John is another end all be all of the banning. I don't that you or salty could make a ban on Matthew or anyone like that without talking to someone higher up. Salty's comment sounded like that all mods act independently and that isn't true.

Did you even read what you quoted? WTF...

...okay, even I have to say WAT right here.

Only surprising thing I see is that people are still reading gweedo's posts, his ignore button is highlighted for a reason.

wat ._.

Also, he did say other people as well as "your boss" but enough off topic.

Does an highlighted ignore button mean the user is a dumbfuck who can't read or that a user shouldn't be called out on the nonsense he writes? Most of the ignores are from persons who have trouble dealing with reality. A lousy metric, I tell you.

I think you may be a bit biased  ;)

I think you may be a bit mistaken ;)

LMAO this made me laugh so hard, considering I add so much to the community, people enjoy what I say. I get PMs everyday saying how I actually made this community better and my opinions mean a lot. Also if you read my post about the community or about bitcoin I am almost dead on for everything I say. Also I only got an ignore highlighted button cause I said the foundation was going to do nothing and hurt the community. I was right, but no one wants to give me credit for being that smart, but I will give myself the credit. But as go on and say what I want, if your opinion isn't that of bitcoin community majority you all attack it is really great and actually I have gotten so many pms from people actually scared to voice their opinion but have the same opinion as me. They call me a hero as I don't care about the popular contest of the ignore button.


Yes that day I had no sleep, probably not wise to post, as I am working on a startup currently, something you probably don't know a lot about and made a post that didn't express my opinion very well. I actually wrote what I meant to come out, a couple of post later. Now I could delete that post, but I don't do that, cause even my mistakes are part of my opinions and I would never delete one of my opinions.

Yep, that is an issue imo. However, if you read through Inaba's posts, a good portion of them are inflamatory, however, in response to another inflamatory comments. So the question becomes, whos more at fault, the angry customers, or the angry company representive. In a real business world, it wouldn't be tolerated, people would stop buying that company's products and that would be the end of it. However, that doesn't seem to apply here. What the community needs to stop doing however, which has been getting very very irritating, is provoking a response from someone, and then playing innocent and trying to use that person's response as damning evidence. I agree that Josh is an ass, but that doesn't give people the right to ask smartass questions of him, and then expect a calm response. He is posting bullshit in response to bullshit. There are exceptions of course, people asking actual questions, but there are also replies from Josh that are actual answers to those questions. In Matthew's case, I'm sure there was some more stuff going on behind the scenes, people aren't just banned for messing with a poll.

My solution would be to penalize everyone involved, the provoking and the responding party to the provokation, however, then we really do get into censorship and to what extent is Ok. Normally, if someone is having a spat with someone else, I'd forgive them as long as the heated words are flying from both directions, however, its been a nonstop spat for the last year, there is no progress to be made anymore by trying to further prove that BFL is or isn't a scam. There is enough info on both sides to write a book *starts writting* so starting new threads every 10 minutes isn't helping, its just spamming.

Back to the matter at hand, I find it somewhat ironic, that people are throwing the censorship flag, yet at the same time demanding that BFL's Ads be removed and Inaba censored. In a completely uncensored enviornment, wouldn't everyone be free to spam each other with Ads, Malware, hateful comments, people's personal information, and useless walls of text about making the perfect breakfast in a thread about recieving mining help? The fact of the matter is, the forums has a very very strict no censorship policy, and the only people who are banned or censored are those who abuse the rights of others to speak freely and read freely. If someone's asic device isn't working, and that person has to sift through 30 pages of pancake recipies to get to help, there is something wrong, and its time to start censoring.

What irritates me further, is people claiming misconduct on Theymos' part, especially when he isn't involved in half of it, or when it just doesn't make sense. He is not my boss, I am not covering for him, but for example, had I compiled together 10 posts from MNW that were all spam and troll posts, theoretically, I could ask a global mod, or more likely Theymos or John K to ban them. Would that be Theymos' fault? I explained a few posts ago, that unless Theymos decided that BFL's additional .017 BTC per week in ad revenue was enough to pay him off, the conspiracy theories as to why BFL is still allowed to purchase ads here are rediculous. Perhaps the Ads are still allowed here, because people have seen the hundreds of threads, and can judge for themselves whether or not they want to order from BFL. Perhaps Theymos doesn't feel the need to insult your intelligence by filtering out all unpleasantries and things that you need to think about for yourself.

also, I enjoy Gweedo's posts, for the most part he doesn't seem to be an annoying extremist who refuses to read anyone else's comments, so I don't mind reading his comments, even if they are critisms. No need to harrass him for a poorly worded sentence which he clarified a post later.

This is complete and utter bullshit and just paints all you mods who are trying to White Knight for Theymos as scummy sycophants. You can't ban someone for trolling and leave Crumbs to post. That proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the ban is not for trolling, which makes the ban for personal reasons.

I don't know why anyone is surprised by this though. This is just libertarians showing their true colours. What part of money = power do people not understand about that horrible philosophy?

troll checking in here. swooping down from reddit (or is it up). first login since this forum got took for another cosbycoin ride.

this place is toxic and it's funny that the mnw show continues.

Crumbs is cute.

Matthew N. Wright's problem is that he's not a brony.

As an Anarchist leaning Libertarian I resent that, if people would come over to my website to chat I'd probably never ban them unless they were just copy/paste spamming or posting virus' :D this is why ignore/block functions exist, I don't know why an admin would need to resort to banning if they already have the right functions in place. You often even see people in games and stuff ranting about someone that's pissing them off while completely failing to notice they have a perfectly good block function available, facebook is a classic example because it's even devolved to people bitching to newspapers about it which is pathetic.

To be fair though, this is exactly why I would rather be an honest person without any morals than a corrupt hypocrite with morals.

Hi jcpham, sup?

Ontopic:
I am still thinking that if MNW really got banned for trolling, many more should've been banned too. And perma(?)banned for trolling, really? Please just tell us it was personal reasons as it looks like it was. If it wasn't for personal reasons, tell us the real reason.

This is borderline libel/slander.  I trust MNW more than 99% of people on this forum because of his actions.

Dude makes a foolish bet causing himself to owe others tens of thousands of dollars that he was never prepared to pay...and to this day he is still honoring his debt.

MNW has more balls than you'll ever have.  And I follow your posts rather closely, fyi.  I have for some time.

Or it just points out you're using a broken, untrustworthy, tool as a decision maker.
From what I read, MNW has been doing his share to promote BTC. What can you brag about? Posting pictures of you and Josh having fun? ;D

Yes.

Since I was the one to initially put in the request, I feel that I can disclose this. Crumbs has already been temp banned in the past and is currently on the chopping block for a permanent ban.

So everyone you have an issue with your just going to temp ban and then permanent ban... If the person doesn't do anything that is illegal, why do you have to ban at all? It just shows you are not doing a good job in moderating if you just ban people. Let the community decided with the ignore button if they want someone to be ban someone from their view. It is funny how a forum about software that frees you so much, yet this is becoming like so strict to be here. I just can't wait until the day I come here and I have to pay to view the forum. I know it is coming, bitcoin foundation is bleeding into this forum.

Also I think if Matthew N. Wright is banned for scams, when is TF going to get the ban? Alright he is Theymos' buddy that is why.

This whole forum is a joke, if it wasn't for the 70K+ members and the deep pockets of some people I would have leave along time ago.

Because they are disrupting topics. Even if you have someone on ignore, enough people reply to them that you will either need to ignore those people or put up with it. Those are the people that we ban. As long as you aren't disruptive, we probably won't bother.

I'm so glad the asshole site admins kept marking Tradefortress as positive trust.  You guys did a great job of befriending him while banishing matthew for speaking out.

Site admins are completely irresponsible (and hoarding millions of $ in user donations).


clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap

Hey Matthew, you're back! Yipeeeee

I'm not Matthew, dumbass.

If you aren't happy, you are welcome to leave  :)

That's exactly what I would expect Matthew to say. lol

Then you don't know Matthew.

Well, not as well as you do obviously. I've missed you and Atlas more than you could imagine sweetie.

Oh damn! I'm outed.

 :-*

You know, salt lick, I'm not a staff member and the fact that you are and that you stood by while theymos "trusted" Tradefortress is enlightening and one of many reasons you should be embarassed to wear that "staff" emblem.  If anyone's leaving would serve the community it's you and the other staff/admins who should go.  

I am not the person doing a CRIMINAL dis-service to this community.

If you cared enough to read the hundreds of old threads, Theymos "trusted" Tradefortress because the list of people that he trusted was consistent with the general consensus as to who should be trusted to start out the system. Theymos didn't personally trust the guy, its just that he was qualified to be an accurate judge of trust.

Nefario was trusted, Pirateat40 was trusted, PatrickHarnett was trusted,

If only we could see the future.

*edit*


This is a forum, it is not the better business bureau.


At the risk of taking this already necroed thread anymore off topic, if you would like to continue on with our chat, you are welcome to pm me, or start a new thread.

bullshit.

The trust system didn't exist when those jokers were active.  Theymos SPECIFICALLY trusted TF when the trust system was implemented.  Even though every action TF took was a red flag.

I outted TF in July, so where my positive trust?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=256008.0


oh look, 20% of the votes called TF a criminal.  Gee, theymos must indeed be a good judge of character  ::)

I take it back. You're not Matthew. He knew what was going on. You don't.

yes I don't know what's going on,  it wasn't me who posted the poll calling him out...

oh yes it was!

Well you might be Matthew? He used to love researching scams and whatnot. See, now you got me all confused. I'd say there's a 50/50 chance you're Matthew.

BTW: you don't think we're all stupid enough to not know that you're derailing this thread to pat yourself on the back do you?

I've stayed away from these forums for the past few months.  I came back to see that TF stole 1.3 million dollars and that Matthew was still banned.  I tried to warn the world TF was a scammer and Theymos banned me for it.

I liked Matthew and, if you read back, I am one of the most vocal supporters for his return.

The site admins on this site SUCK.

You do realize that forums are usually businesses and all forum admins can remove you from their business any time they see fit? You get to remain at the sole discretion of the owner or operator. Even if a nonprofit forum was funneling donated funds to drug lords YOU can be removed. Both admins may suck to you but you still are going to be gone if you don't stop. Matt didn't get that either and he's not here anymore. The fact that you can even say the admins suck without an instant ban probably means that they don't suck.

Ok, you figured out the TF puzzle and you tried to warn everyone but they didn't listen and they lose. Why don't you just feel good about that and move on.

This site is broken, as broken as it's leader theymos.  Sorry you can't see it.

Oy vey, I'm out.

So much for questioning authority.  You are, clearly, just another Theymos sycophant.  You really do not deserve such a name as the one you've chosen.

:popcorn:

Viceroy I used to think the same as you about this. Unfortunately, this is when I learned what the "trust" system was all about...

One member "trusting" another, is supposed to mean that you trust his judgement, not that you are trusting his character. This means I can trust you, and people who have trusted me will also respect your trust ratings (not trust your character).

It seems messed up to me too, "trust" is definately the wrong word for it for some reason, but I don't know what the right one is...  :(

I would actually enjoy trust being renamed the Judgement System
Hehe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_judgment

e4xit,

Yea the problem is that the site admin has made himself culpable for the theft.  The site admin placed "trust" upon TF and then TF stole 1.3 million worth of BTC.  The site admin is 100% responsible for that loss because the site admin told the world that TF could be trusted.

The word you seek is CULPABILITY.

Let me use it in a sentence for you:

"Theymos is culpable for the theft because he FORCED all users on this board to TRUST a criminal who ended up stealing from the community".

I still think you don't know how the trust system works...

Ghosted

http://uppix.com/f-trus2t52b5febd0014e7ee.png

Agreed. Guess you you should have trusted, back then?  ;D