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Norway has a peculiar child protection (barnevernet) system. At a most insignificant suspicion that a child has bee mistreated by its parents, the child will be taken by the sate from its parents and relocated to an undisclosed foster family. *The parents will then be presumed guilty until they prove that they are innocent, a process that can take up to several years. It does not matter if both parents and the child are not Norwegian citizens - they can even be tourists visiting the country for a couple of days, the process would still be the same.

http://rt.com/news/196532-norway-remove-child-tooth/

Two weeks ago a Russia family working in the North of Norway experienced just that. Their 5-year old son had a loose milk tooth, which the mother helped to remove. The child mentioned that at school and the teacher took the child home, suspecting abuse. The parents were getting worried when the child did not return from school in the evening, but became even more worried when they got summoned by the police to give statements. They were denied their request to see the child, and they still do not know where the child is. Child protection also expressed interest in the younger sister of the boy, but the parents managed to send he back to Russia to her grand-parents, while they remain in Norway for the legal battle to get their child back. All three are Russian citizens, so this is not just a case of kidnapping, but of an abduction of a foreign citizen.

http://english.pravda.ru/society/stories/11-10-2011/119296-norway_children-0/

Norway had about 8000 such cases, 20 of which against Russian citizens. India made a TV documentary, called "Nightmare in Norway" - an Indian child got confiscated from its Indian parents in the same manner after the authorities learnt that the child crept into his parents bed after having nightmares (a child, according to the rules, must always sleep in its own bed).

The state-kidnapped children are often placed in care of families of "non-traditional orientation", which is in accordance with the Norwegian doctrine of de-genderaisation of children. A child should be an "it", until "it" is old enough to decide if it wants to be a "she" or "he".

In those cases when parents managed to prove their innocence, and children were returned, the families were still forced to leave Norway.

So, when visiting Norway with a child, make sure not to anger it so that it does not start tell tall tails of abuse to its teachers and don't feed it from your hands (falls under the transgression of "forced feeding")

WTF?! Is that genuine? Fuck Norway! >_< And how the hell did they get that information in the first place?

Governments kidnap people all the time. But they call it "arresting".

I am Norwegian. The above section is pure and utter bullshit, no such doctrine excists.

Regarding the childrens protection service,  yes, they can be a bitch, and they are frequently a controversial topic in Norwegian media. You should know children has very strong legal protection rights here. I don't know the Russian case, but in the Indian case the childrens protection service has stated that it was not the fact that the children where sleeping with their parents, or that they where handfed, that led to the children being removed from the parents, but that the reasons for the removal is not to be disclosed. I honestly don't know what happened, and I don't rightly care. You make it seem like this is something that happens regularly in Norway but that is not the case.

I concur that calling it a doctrine was an overreaction on my part, however promotion of "gender neutrality" has gone quite far in schools from what I heard from friends who have kids.

The problem I see with the Norwegian child care system is that parents are presumed guilty until proven innocent with immediate removal of the child, which is traumatic for the kid. In most other countries the families are observed/followed up, and the extraction of the child requires a court order.

Here is one of the "Indian" cases:
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/nightmare-in-norway-indian-couple-fights-to-get-children-back-169287

That's quiet easy. Children, especially in lower grades and in kindergarten often tell (exaggerated) tales to their peers and teachers. So teachers are very well informed about the most intimate aspects of a family's life, which may surprise even the parents. My friends with children had some rather amusing stories. The trick is to sift exaggerations from real threat signals.

The problem with the case of this Russian kid is that under the international law, what happened to him can be classified as an abduction of a foreign national. Plus this is an infliction of a gross psychological trauma on the child. In a normal world the child should have been transferred to the Russian child care authorities, which should decide what to do in accordance with the Russian law.

If I were ever separated from my parents in such a manner and learnt about it as an adult, I would have sued the bastards kidnapping me for million amounts for each day lost of my life with my parents. The reverse applies, and a lioness protecting her cubs would have seemed like a tame purring cat compared to my mother should something happen to her children. I remember as a 12-year-old I went for a month to pioneer camp. That was tough, being separated from the family, even though parents visited a couple of times. Here, a 5-year-old is a total isolation in a foreign country.

I can hazard a guess at what this 5-year-old has been through for the last 3 weeks of separation from the parents. He could feel anger and confusion at being, what he'd think, abandoned by his parents, who don't come to rescue him. Coupled with interrogations (sorry, "interviews") and possibly suggestive questions, the child may start wishing for the parents to feel the same hurt he is feeling and tell accusative stories, thus unwittingly sealing his own fate of being forever torn apart from the family. Alternatively the boy might start thinking that there's something wrong with him if his parents abandoned him, which will lead to insecurity, inferiority complex and potential future suicidal thought. In either case, this three-week separation has already done its damage.

The hearing deciding the fate of the abducted kid was today...

however kidnapping a citizen of the former USSR may have consequences far darker than any Norwegians nosun may bring to the kidnappers... R.I.P.

This is a strange law

I guess the inverse is if your looking to adopt as a foster parent in Norway and gay/lesbian the government provides you with a kid on the slightest whim
On the inverse of that if the foster parent had the kid brought in for a milk tooth would they just keep moving the kid around the system ....
That seems messed up training them to be gays/lesbians from childhood
What gender race bias wizardry is this!

(Basically saying that sarcasticly since its usually all about gay rights but in this case its like forcing an ideology on a child)
"non-traditional orientation" in accordance with the Norwegian doctrine of de-genderaisation of children. A child should be an "it", until "it" is old enough to decide if it wants to be a "she" or "he".

the only law that they understand, the "they" is clearer than crystal for those hearing, is the sound of the act of violence, including the complete destruction&loss of what ever was once dear to their heart or wallet....

I f---ing don't care, if it was a US citizen I would say... I don't need, we share this common belief. For your warning dear Kidnapper in Alaska it's called too, trained we are.

This is not kidnapping. This is the value that the Norway gives to the children.

You can't abuse children in Norway...

let's move to the opportunity side... how much dollars shall be considered appropriate compensation for the kidnapping of a Russian citizen, let's start at 1millions dollars/day, aren't the Norwegians the richest people of the world with their sovereign wealth fund... let's compensate  ::)

let's see how they value their own life... (speaking of the kidnappers).

disclaimer: This was posted as a "joke" on the bitcointalk.org forum, however some very talented individuals may not find it funny to know that one of their compatriot is being held against his will by a foreign group...

This isn't one of the indian cases, this is the only Indian case. You should know that when the Norwegian childrens protection service takes the kid away from the parents it is usually very serious reasons, mainly drugs, violence or sexual abuse. It is pure stupidity to asume you're running the risk of having your kid taken away from you while on vacation in Norway, unless you actually do something of the above mentioned.

As for the Indian case, as I said the child protection service won't disclose their reasons, but rumor has it the parents where beating the kids. I wouldn't know.

As for the gender neutrality thing, where do you people pick up that kind of bullshit?

As far as I know, the Indian kids were kidnapped by the CPS for being hand-fed by their parents.

Most of the teachers in Norway are extreme-left / ultra-feminist / pro-gay types. Any kid who display a kind of behavior which is not in line with that of the teachers risk being abducted by the CPS.

An example is here:

http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/09/29/boys-must-sit-to-pee-in-norway-school/

Here is a warning to everyone. We all know that the Scandinavian countries are very rich and that if you get a job there, then you will be able to save a lot of money. But remember that your family is more precious than any amount of money. Avoid Norway / Sweden at all cost.

better safe than sorry, Norway no go for family.


brilliant.

Hahaha, WTF!!??? I'm outa here, this just turned into teabag comedy central :D

What irks me is that if the parents are suspected of violence, then they should be arrested and charged, while the child is returned to the family - he has a sister, whom the parents saved from the system, grandfathers and grandmothers. Instead the child is arrested and incarcerated.

News update in Russian:
http://www.rapsinews.ru/international_news/20141021/272418190.html

This is one of the 20 cases against Russian kids over the last 2.5 years.

so much hate here

chill on, we are just saying that in Norway any kids can be kidnapped, but I bet everything that I have that they (judges, cps, lawyers, cops, soldiers, secret what you want from Norway, kings (if they have)) will never ever kidnap a child from the "kremlin" because they know they can kidnap kids from the "little" People without consequences, but not "those kids", where their teams are coming for them...

And that's the truth about your "free system" and you know it, from the inside.

Hah, Russia is always looking for excuses to trample the rights of others.

They are the "LITTLE" people, at least when we finish with them.  ;D

It funny how some of the posters here have decided to turn this into an US vs THEM argument. I am fairly certain patriotism wasn't the motivation taking the children or trying to get them back. That discussion is a complete red herring and is for another thread.

As far as CPS being a SOURCE of abuse, this isn't limited to Norway. Most people don't know in the US family "courts" are completely outside of the judicial system, and with it you have no rights. Technically in the US everyone is property of the county of their birth until 18 and stays that way until death unless wardship is specifically revoked. In the eyes of the law your children belong to the state more than they do to the parents. This unaccountable system has resulted in a for profit removal of healthy children from healthy families so they can literally be sold on the open market to adoptive parents for VERY high fees. There is even some evidence CPS is used in many places as a front to funnel children to people with pedophilic tendencies. In summary, all rhetoric aside, this is an increasing problem in  many industrialized nations.

ahahah try to take the children of Michelle O. and you will see how it goes... hahaha

And concerning China (you said industrialized), in there, all Children matters are taken very seriously, and any trespassing could result for the family of the offenders on a bill for the price of the bullet. That's how it's done against predators, the rest is scam or diversion...

Many is not the same as all.

I started this discussion not as a Norway-bashing thread. I like quite a lot of things in Norway, live here for most of my life since mid-teens, went to college (videregående) here. The thread is about criticizing one of the aspects worth criticizing. Our friend, DarkForces The Troll, does not seem to know (or is paid not to know) the difference between criticizing and hating (he also injects his anti-Russian agenda into any thread that has word "Russia" in it, whatever the topic). The only thing that I truly passionately hate is injustice. (A could of other things in Norway worth criticizing are healthcare and educational systems, which have been going downhill for some time now, but that's another topic).

When a child is taken from a family, I equate it to the capital punishment. In case of a mistake, a "judicial murder" with irreversible consequences takes place - a family is sentenced for life without child and the child is sentenced for life without parents.

To address the Indian question: that might by the only case, I don't know, but statistically I doubt it. In a TV interview, the Russian consulate in Norway cited that they know of about 8000 cases of child "extraction" over the last 2.5 years. The majority was said to go against families where one or both parents are foreign nationals. Only 20 case touched Russians. Given that the Indian population in Norway is magnitude large than Russian, I would say that that was not the only case touching an Indian family.

A bit of cultural background on milk teeth removal. :) It's largely mother's responsibility in Russian families. The procedure involves a string, tied to a tooth and a sharp pull or a door. The child gets as a prize to carry his own tooth on a string, showing it off and boasting how brave and grown-up he is. I can see if a child told something similar to his teacher, he'd be misunderstood...

Some background on family values. In Norway, after the oil was found in the 70s and the wealth went up, the definition of family went at the same time down. In Russia, a family includes great-grand-parents, grand-parents, parents, children, often living together. In Norway, it's the core family (kjernefamilie) of two parents plus a child of up to 18. It is almost expected of a child in his late teens to move out and find some basement apartment to rent, taking up a loan (the banks love this convention). It's met with scorn if you "live with your parents", as people here stopped realising that at some point you stop living "with your parents" and "parents start living with you", while you take care of them. I tell this because Russian families coming to say, Norway, with their children, do so for their children's sake, to give them better position in life, as it is also an investment into the parent's old age, when it will be the time for the children to care for their parents, they'll be better equipped to do so. The egoistic parents leave their children behind in Russia and come alone.

Nemo thx for this beautiful post.

Get a life loser. From where Russia got in to the picture? We were discussing about child kidnap in Norway. I haven't heard of any similar instances from Russia or other former Soviet republics.

I posted this link in the OP, but this case from 2011 is well worth a separate accentuation:

http://english.pravda.ru/society/stories/11-10-2011/119296-norway_children-0/


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Another case from 2011, when a boy managed to escape from Norway:
http://english.pravda.ru/society/stories/05-10-2011/119234-russian_boy_schengen-0/
A must read in full!


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And another case from 2011:


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http://img02.rl0.ru/pgc/432x288/544722ed-8321-a62f-8321-a620a6eed06b.photo.0.jpg

And the latest news
http://news.rambler.ru/27516598/
CPS decided to keep the child in the foster family, saying it will be best for the child, and the parents will be "allowed to see him form time to time".  :-\
The parents will go to court (of course), but as the 2011 case shows, they might get imprisoned for wanting their child back.

The mother did her maternal duty and for that the child is stolen from her. I have no words...

It looks like this boy's fate is sealed too.

I didn't read your last post, because I don't need. Now as the tragedy is running. let's make some hypothesis:

Imagine that the kid was the son of the One of the Sinaloa or K.T. Cartels, the truce would have started between all until freed. picture yourself the capital city of Norway, you could see that all the highest judges would be dead, at let me tell you, civilians causalities to achieve operatives objectives are irrelevant. The norwegian States would have fold... because NO COPS, NO JUDGES, NO CPS would dare to show or stay in the country.

Imagine that the kid was the son of GWB, today, there would be no more a capital city in norway, the ground would be toxic for thousand of years, most norwegians, inland or outland would be in concentration camp waiting their death, and of course the Professional Soldiers sent to EXTRACT him from the State Sponsored Kidnappers would be at the White House received by Potus and his son...

So what would you do if you were POTRF, aka the President of the Russian Federation and it was your son that was held?


edit: there is no others path against lies backed by violence like the norv.gov do here, scaling until one fold.

edit2: btw time is of the essence the more they (many) are in the hands of those "aliens" (dehumanization), the more they are at risks of being injured and co.

edit3: and if there was really a problem with this family, why not sent them back to Russia and inform the Russian State?

edit4: time for a joint color revolution there? half - half ? because sooner or later it will be an American Child...

I was trying to wrap my head around what was happening and one word kept popping up in my mind:

Slavery.

Slavery can take many form. Labour slavery, sex slavery, this is child slavery. They all satisfy some needs that cannot be satisfied domestically: more workforce, more women, more children. These abducted kids (about 10 each day as per statistics) are grown detached from their origins, taught to be good Norwegians.

This happened before in history:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissaries


Note that also in the Norwegian cases, mos children are under 6 years old, in an age, when they can be easily "re-programmed".

This kid still has his younger sister, who is free. Hopefully she'll come looking for him in 15-16 years' time, once she is of age...

I think that Noraway has been getting it right in so many other ways for so long that the world has just been pumping up her collective ego for years and now there may be a sense of Norwegians being able to do no wrong, resulting in a loss of the self monitoring of one's moral compass. After all if the world is always telling your country how progressive your society is, you might get a sense of superiority and let down your guard to horrible atrocities like this. Since you are from Norway, what is your opinion on this sociological analysis OP?

The OP is NOT overreacting. CPS is a front for child sex trafficking all over the world. What makes you think these people care about breaking up a few families?

That's basically what I said in the OP. If they really objective was caring about the child and minimising trauma to it, it should have been transferred to the Russian CPS, where he would be in familiar cultural and language surroundings. In this case the objective seems to be getting hold of the child himself.


I forgot to address this question. It was mentioned in the interview of the Russian consulate in Norway, where the little-known particularities of the law were explained. As long as you are on Norwegian soil, irregardless of the reasons you are there, the law extends on you. Saw CPS has the authority over you both when you are a citizen, a worker (as in this case), or an illegal immigrant (as in the 2011 case). It also, in theory, applies to you if you are just passing on a transit.


As a foreigner who lived in Norway for a long time and observe the society from the sidelines, so to speak, I'd say your assessment is pretty accurate. The privilege of awarding the Peace Prize does not help either...

As for trafficking, I don't know. My greater concern is a potential for organ harvesting. What happened in those 50 child suicide cases (in 2011) after the children got separated from the families..?

I am sure those CPS (and backers) love their weekend... nuff said.

What makes you think that child sex traffickers would have any qualms about selling organs as well?

One thing is sure 40 years ago, no one would have dare kidnap a Soviet child. It tells more about Russia than anything... Happily today, no would dare to kidnap an American child, and if they do, the second they answer the call from the Empire, they would release him asap. Because they would know, that unbearable consequences may be starting to fall upon them...

Speech extract:

In the States backed kidnappers office the telephone rings : Hi, it's the Imperial representative in your country.
Sbk: Hi, what's up, what can I do for you today?
IR: I am informing you that in 3 hours a meeting about the kidnap child is gonna happen...
Sbk: wooooohhhhhhh, WTF are you talking to me?
IR: Your gov kidnapped one of our child, data transmitted
Sbk: thank you for informing us, you can tell them that they can cancel their meeting, you will receive a flight plan for the kid and his family in 10 min.
IR: I hope for you that you will. so bye.
Sbk with his crime partners:  oooohhh guys, we almost died :D.

I was following the Norwegian news outlets closely after the incident was reported on Russian media. Zero mention. The parents did say in the interview to the Russian channel that they were warned/threatened not to tell media or else they'll never see their child again. So I entirely believe the sincerity of the first Norwegian commetor saying:


Interpolating from the statistics, since the Russian kid was abducted from his family and I created this thread, about 90 kids suffered the same fate.

I read the Russian comments on Rambler, and they ranged in spectrum from ones blaming Norway:

Through ones blaming parents:


(I don't agree with such accusations: the parents usually do so to give their kids and better start in life, and how were they to know about such barbaric practices?)

And to the ones blaming Russian authorities:


With this I agree. Russia is usually too lenient and soft in its international affairs, seeking to gain approval and being abused because of that. If Russia held a more strict line, such cases would be non-existant.

I also read about a similar fate suffered by a Russian family in the USA. Their two sons were taken from them by CPS, separated and adopted into different families. The older boy escaped and returned to his parents, after which he was not taken the second time (the CPS probably deemed him too old to be reprogrammed), while the family lost their younger son forever.

I guess we'll never know what happened to this Russian boy in Norway, as it happens with thousands of similar cases...

Seems to me you must have some kind of grudge against the childrens protection service, to each his own.

No, I have a grudge against unfairness. Slavery, murder, war, corruption, genocide and loss of family values would entice the same kind of anger from me. Did people know that in Germany, if a 10-year-old kid refused to attend sexual education classes, where, among other things, it is shown how to properly insert penis into vagina, then ParentNumberOne and ParentNumberTwo (formerly known in the dark unenlightened ages as Mother and Father) can be fined and imprisoned.

I have no grudge against Norwegian CPS, but if they did their proper job, they would have cooperated with Russian CPS and transferred the Russian minor citizen to Russia.

Now back to the case at hand.

Astahov, the head of the Russian child rights protection government committee posted yesterday on Twitter that the kid was for the first time since the beginning of October allowed to see his parents. The meeting lasted only for 1 hour (hardened criminals get more meeting time with their families while in prison than this innocent 5-year-old). The child and the parents were forbidden to speak Russian - the meeting had to be conducted in Norwegian! So, the reprogramming after child-harvesting has already started. A 5-year-old, if he does not use his mother tongue, will start to forget it after about a month, and will adopt the dominant language of his surrounding instead.

if you can't homeschool your children in the country of your residence, you better change country now (while you still can).

That's the exact point. Who determines what is abuse? And how far can government go in gradually changing their understanding of what abuse consists of, until they finally can take kids for any reason at all?

Every action needs to be decided by something like a jury in these kinds of cases. Half of the jury should be made up of folks who live in the area of the parents/guardians, while the other half not - so that we get honest opinions and jury judgments.

:)

it's just the collectivists vs the individualist... the collectivist wants the butter, the money of the shopkeeper and his wife. There can be no informative discussion as long as you don't understand that. the individualist want to go the butter shop, pay his butter in a medium that the butterman accepts (with cryptos, why not), and leave with what he payed from his own work. Happily individualist can form Swarms, aka individuals believing in the same principle seeing no others path but victory or death over the collective. The Swarm is composed of the wise and smart interacting freely, it's very creative in nature, and frankly not of the same league as any collective organization... they lack the dynamism (aka the process of creative destruction).

Now we're talking! Up with Bitcoin! Down with tyranny!   :)

bitcoin is a form of collectivism, you all believed in it, but hated the alt. So if you want say: Up with Cryptos! Down with tyranny!

Meanwhile a child, will one day, sooner than we may think, not even recognizes his mother (language).

That is so. A 5-yo child forgets his mother tongue (and a great deal other things) within 5-6 month of disuse. I know a Russian-language teacher, who struggled keeping up the language level of the immigrant parents' kids. It was especially difficult if the family was mixed and the everyday language at home was Norwegian.

And interesting shift in politics: Initially that education was called "mothertongue teacher" (morsmållærer), but later was re-branded into "dual-language teacher" (tospråklig lærer) and the stated goal was changed from teaching the kid his mother tongue to helping him to assimilate through his mother tongue.

That harvested kid should have been given Russian language lessons ho help him, instead he is forbidden to speak the language.

Collecting signatures to return Oskar home
http://www.citizengo.org/ru/13085-norvegia-verni-oskara-domoy

Norway, return Oscar Shianok to his parents!


The child can now meet once a week and Russian language was allowed. The child cried when it was time to be separated from his mother after an hour's meeting and was asking to go home with parents. Oh, and he lost another tooth - it's that time of his life - and was proudly showing it to his mother:
http://lifenews.ru/news/143968

The parents can now see the child once a week. Russian officials have still not been granted right to see the child either:
http://rapsinews.ru/international_news/20141029/272484790.html

A demonstration was conducted at Norwegian embassy:
http://www.ivan4.ru/news/yuvenalnaya_yustitsiya/piket_u_posolstva_norvegii_v_podderzhku_malchika_oskara/

And another case!!!
On the 31st of October another child - a 6-year old Russian girl - was abducted from her parents by Norwegian authorities. Astahov (Russian child protection representative) will discuss the worsening situation in Norway with UN's representative on the 12th of November in Minsk.
http://tass.ru/obschestvo/1547613

Some reports by The Nordic Commitee for Human Rights:
http://www.nkmr.org/en/

Summary and Report to the European Parliament Petitions Committee: Child Removal Cases in Denmark, Finland, Norway and Sweden
http://www.nkmr.org/en/english1/146-organisation/frontpage/2524-summary-and-report-to-the-european-parliament-petitions-committee-child-removal-cases-in-denmark,-finland,-norway-and-sweden

http://www.nkmr.org/docs/Report_to_the_European_Parliament_Petitions_Committee.pdf

From the report:

CONFERENCE on the CHILD REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS in the COUNCIL of EUROPE MEMBER STATES and Related Human Rights Issues
http://www.nkmr.org/en/english1/146-organisation/frontpage/2563-conference-on-the-child-removal-proceedings-in-the-council-of-europe-member-states-and-related-human-rights-issues

Here's a case where they had considered taking the child from the mother after she put him on a diet: http://www.newsinenglish.no/2014/11/09/boy-found-dead-probably-starved/

Such cases are tragic, they are also rare, and could be solved by CPS closely observing suspect families, providing guidance, education, daily/weekly visits by CPS representatives. But that is a more expensive method than "just" taking the child away. Instead of oiling a car to fix it, you hit it with a hammer.

Can prevention of such cases as above outweigh the suicides (50 in Norway in 2011) committed by the children that were forcefully taken from their families?

The situation is getting worse. Below is my speed-translation of two Russian. articles to English.

http://sledcom.ru/actual/420508/

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http://ria.ru/world/20141111/1032812504.html


BitMos, one of the Russian-speaking commentors on Rambler wrote something that resonates with your earlier comments:

Child kidnapping in Norway has turned into big business: between 1 and 2.4 million NOK per year per child is transferred from the budget to CPS (Bernevernet), given the previous data that there were 8000 kidnappings over the last 2.5 years, it gives us 8.7 children per day. Let's average it and say 9 children * 2 million * 365 days = 6.57 billion NOK (970 million dollars) per year that get eaten from the state budget. Even with Norway's exceptionally hight prices, a child cannot use 2 million NOK per year, maybe 200,000 or less. Where does the rest of the money go? In addition prospective foster parents pay to Barnevernet to adopt...

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A documentary on NTV
"Adoption has become big business: Norway abducts Russian kids."
http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/1262356/rambler


PS: Barnevernet appears to be owned by Aarden Capital London, a sub-division of Bank of America.

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A desperate article from Aftenposten from 2009 (in Norwegian), highlighting several cases against Norwegian parents, and referencing Strasbourg court ruling that Norway/Barnevernet ignored, as well as a Norwegian court ruling that was ignored as well, and a child never returned.
The article is called "The state owns the children":
http://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/kronikker/Staten-eier-barna-6612778.html

BitMos, it's not about Kremlin lies, but about the way Russia historically treats international agreements and laws - with respect and often to its own detriment. It's been like this a hundred years ago as well, when Russia got pulled into WWI to its own detriment, only because it had to abide by the agreements.

Many in the Russian government and parliament know this and try to counteract. Russia ratified too many detrimental international agreements during Yeltsin's reign on the belief that now that the Cold War is over and that the "world community" with USA at the lead has Russia's best interests at heart and are Russia's best friends. Russia must abide by the agreements to keep its honour before the "international community". This euphoria has passed now, and pragmatism finally seems to be taking hold. Russia now asks the "international community" to abide by this same laws and suddenly draws ire.

But this is a digression.

Back to the topic. In the article in Aftenposten, the author mentions a case when a child was provably mistreated in a foster family, yet Barnevernet didn't take the child and didn't return it to the biological parents. The author is at a loss, why Barnevernet seems to think that only biological parents can harm a child, while foster parents can do no harm.

If we look at it from a business angle, it becomes clear. The child is purchased from Barnevernet by a foster family, who now owns it. Biological parents initially do not own a child - the state does. They are only means for a child to come to the world so that it later can be harvested.

A variation on an old meme comes to mind:

"Norwegian State: All your kids are belong to us."

should have taken care of their own children by their parents, educational responsibility, social and others, is still the responsibility of their parents, although today many parents who work and leave their children in daycare, so many children are no longer feel the love of their parents directly, I suggest as parents we should be paying more attention to our children, especially for problems morality and religion ...  ::)

Russian citizen had to flee Norway after her 10-year old daughter got called in to questioning by CPS "Barnevernet":
http://www.vladtime.ru/obsh/408200-rossiyanka-s-rebenkom-sbezhala-iz-norvegii-spasayas-ot-socsluzhb.html
Luckily her daughter was let go home until some documents were found. Scared mother flew with the first flight to Russia, while the father remains in Norway. The family has been working in the country for 7 years. The mother is a teacher, the father is a doctor. The girl was under Barnevernet's hidden surveillance for the last 4 months.

Again thank you Nemo for providing updates not seen behind the wall :D. A few comments that I find interesting to keep in mind.

1. Russian Embassies worldwide have kept the "mystery" of soviet union alive, no state back foreigners will dare to enter, they will be killed by those mentioned before and after.

2. Population of the Kingdom of Norway : 5M. How many times was the equivalent of Norway wiped out by Soviet Union? I think than less People ever lived in Norway than died in Soviet Union.

3. How could a foreign entity chose to engage the FSB in direct hostilities and furthermore scale them, when the FSB has the moral high ground?#Bring the Children to the Motherland!

I find this situation very interesting, on one side we have what can become the bringers of the end of Norway, on the others absolute statists whose ideologies are even reflected in your last post, where the missing papers delayed the girl kidnapping... Once Official Russian Kill Rights are issued it's too late for most opponents. The Kingdom of Norway isn't able to handle Russian Realities.

What to expect from a nation that willingly contaminate the world with their toxic salmons.

It's not the government's damn job to take a kid away from their parents. I don't care what happened. A child is their parents responsibility... It's not the government's damn job to protect you, a kid, an adult, a dog, a cat, or any other damn living creature. We need to stop with this bullshit community property ideology of biological creatures. The only people responsible for a child is their parents.

People piss me off on a daily basis with this kind of bullshit. Anybody that thinks this is okay is complete fucking idiotic, worthless moron.

I completely disagree, I even find that this salmon story could be turned into the perfect way to loot the norwegian fat sovereign fund BTC, under bio terrorism law, NDAA and co. As such as the damages have already be done BTC, it's time to loot this colossal reparation fund BTC. As it's already NATO even put their oil infrastructures under direct USMC authority  :-X  :-X. The perfect break BTC. However there is one thing I frankly empathize with you, it's your right to be pissed off by what ever you like and to express it the way you see fit...  :D. On a very large plan it's a great opportunity for the American and Russian Federations to remove this gov. the Russian plays the bad cops, "force" the American to "secure the propriety", the loot is secured. 50 / 50 ? Since kids can be kidnapped with impunity in the kingdom of Norway, why should a regular overthrow + loot be excluded? The Norwegians are so "advanced", they will find again the best solution to this new life paradigm, isn't it?

Astahov classified the situation in Norway as "juvenile terror", drawing the attention of the international human rights organisations to it, and said that Russian continues to fight it:
http://www.ng.ru/news/485190.html

A big article about the situation. According to Astahov, 55 Russian kids from 32 families were taken in Norway (and 74 kids in Finland) over the course of the last 2.5 years:
http://ria.ru/world/20141114/1033320657.html
(I'll write a translation of this article later)

New details about the mother and her 10-year old girl, who fled to Russia yesterday. They were under observation by Barnevernet for 4 months, based on an anonymous call, and the girl could have been taken from the family at any moment:
http://ria.ru/society/20141114/1033309090.html

Here is a translation of
http://ria.ru/world/20141114/1033320657.html


Note, that I highlight this crisis mostly from a Russian viewpoint. However, the number of "Russian" cases is very small (as the number of Russians living in Norway is small), about 0.05% of all the abduction cases. But Russia has finally decided to do something about it, at last. The main victims are still the Norwegian families themselves.

BitMos, I don't think Russia will play a bad cop, it will play by the rules, otherwise what's the point in having rules? As for America - it does not need to take over Norway, if I understood your sentiment correctly. Norway is already the last state of the USA. US President speeches get more news time here than the speeches of local or European politicians. You almost never see European films on TV and never hear European music on the radio - both are predominately American. English is de-facto second mother tongue. And the Norwegian culture is mostly remembered only on the 17th of May.

---

Urgent update about the 5-year old Oskar. His parents were informed by a letter from Barnevernet that the child got transferred (read: sold) to an undisclosed foster family and that any future contact between the child and his parents is prohibited.

How to phrase it kindly, I don't think Russia is anymore in the driving seat concerning Norway. But why do you think that the Russian patriots would accept that their own children could be kidnapped by any states, including Norway. That it doesn't represent a major unacceptable threat to Russian security worldwide? And that only by bringing those kids back to the Motherlands the security of all Russian children can be assured worldwide. What is interesting is that their is no report of the reaction of the norwegian gov. I mean, everyone in Norway think it will go poof, to kidnap Russian kids from their family? Wait for the crying mothers on tv. Furthermore if the said state kidnappers don't feel an utmost humiliation, which may result in their end, they can't learn from their mistakes and others capitalize on it. That's why it's time for the Empire, aka America to take care of the norwegian case. As you must know, it's not a very complex policing operation, the Empire does it all the time according to the kremlin :D.

My sentiment is that I. NATO /= THE EMPIRE. It's seems simple, but it's very clear. The different messages of certain so called member states have been heard. Or you join the Union, aka the United States of America or you have to behave correctly. And by that I mean, not kidnapping children from their family at all, and secondly that sometimes depending on the circumstances of the Empire it's important for your state, to admit that it must accept different paradigms in many aspects from legislative to territorial issues. But that you can have a say, but that some others interests may primes yours and a such to fold your dreams hurts less than a confrontation (from your perspective) with the Empire.

It's a match made in dream with Alaska, that some borders may become fluids and of course only include a stealth overthrow! As a Norwegians you wouldn't notice anything, Bagdad on Ice^TM, doesn't need to be violent. It's precisely the challenge of the matters, just to restore a certain sanity in the kingdom of Norway, the only explosions in the sky of Oslo would be the fireworks used to celebrate the success of the most beautifully never executed stealth overthrow. It would be so silent that the shockwaves of it would be heard very far. And warn everyone that the Empire takes it security very seriously. And if you read until here, just remember who ever may the foreign enemy be, they are nothing in comparison to the domestic ones ;D.

No one is stopping you from interfacing safely with anything that may come from any where, about your cultural comments. I didn't knew that a cultural artifact ( :o) could be nationalistic! For ex : An European music, I prefer good/bad/abject/expensive/scamy or what ever as adjective... the cultural icon of the nation, part of myth building I guess? loooowwwww skkkiiiillllllssss. Do you prefer something better or worst? Depends :D.

In Norway it's basically a taboo to speak of such affairs, on the grounds of "protecting the children". Parents are warned not to talk to the press or else...

An interesting article in Aftenposten from the 3rd November this year:
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Syv-private-aktorer-har-tjent-550-millioner-pa-barnevern-7769555.html

7 private actors have earned 550 million NOK on Barnevern, which is a privately owned organisation. Yes, it's big business.
In the facts box: During 2012 53198 kids were touched by Barnevern one way or another.

Void in the USA since December 15, 1791. It's called aggressive risk awareness - suppression. What could be a sad state of affairs for the kingdom of Norway, is a great institutional support ready to cope with the new paradigm, at least they will not have to hide such facts, it ain't an issue covered by the NDAA&co. Really "advanced" is the best term to describe such profoundly progressive society. Could you just please quote in $ or BTC, otherwise those sums you cited here will not have relevance soon... Those Nokies will have to accept the side they chose to support and what it means in concrete... curious too! The Arts at Works ::). It's a classical example of an elk jumping in a pool full of crocodiles (them being among the nicest of this pool), whose shores are covered with all the others predators of the Earth... it ain't about the North nor the Children dear elk... I still don't understand why it jumped, didn't he saw? let's see if until when it can swim, the fatness may help a while. Please dear elk don't freeze, it will not help. If you think that shark frenzy are wild, it' because you never saw the world of the saurians... poor elk. Why didn't you stay in bear country, they could have welcome you for a winter nap in their heated bear hut :D. Are you gonna plead ignorance, I advise all elks to look at the source of the picture once in a while before jumping in front of the traffic.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Elch_3_db.jpg/220px-Elch_3_db.jpg
It ain't gonna be fair.

edit: the order book is getting wild for both rear legs, it's gonna be the hell of a fight, however I don't think the elk will play much role in the fleecing :D. Who's gonna role first  ::).

What a cruel thing to do to a child - to take him away from family! For any child the happiest place to be is with his own mum and dad.
The actions of Norwegian social services are anti-human if not to say racist.

This sounds like the government does not want the world community to find out about it's business and questioning it's CPS practices.

Unbelievable... The total number of births in Norway for the year 2012 was just 60,255. Either there is something wrong with the Norwegian CPS, or there is something seriously wrong with the Norwegian parents.

Again, OP is for some reason twisting all the information he gives to frame it in the worst possible light. The referenced number in the fact box is for children and adolescents, or put another way, includes everyone in Norway between 0-18 years old wich is about a million people, thus giving aproximately 5 % of this age-group who's been in contact with CPS the last year. Not a very extraordinary number.

Now, you are either all of you emotional idiots (exempting the OP who for some unexplicable reasons, my guess is a personal grudge, is blowing this issue out off all proportions. Really, the CPS in Norway is likely no worse or better than in comparable nations.) or you are all deliberately taking the bait just to go troll.

This is by far one of the strangest threads I've seen in Bitcointalk, and frankly, I'm fucking amazed it's still alive. There's ebola, isis and the looming economical crisis to fret about, and for some strange reason all you morons manage to go make a big issue out of the Norwegian CPS, wich again is highly likely no better or worse than the CPS in comparable nations.

If this whole thread wasn't so fucking stupid I'd laugh my ass of. ::)

I don't think that the child, or its parents are laughing now. Which is applicable to several thousand other children and families put into such position.

By the way, the bigger problems of the world start from such "small" ones as taking a child against all thinkable legal and moral rules.

I don't hold any grudge against CPS, as I already stated before. It's the unfairness of the situation that drives me here.

As for the fact box, I didn't twist anything, saying that its the number of children touched by CPS.

And the legal aspect: to adopt a child from Russia to a foreign family, you need to jump through a lot of legal hoops, designed to protect the child from potential abuse. What right has Norwegian CPS to take/kidnap a foreign national child from foreign national parents and adopt it away, bypassing everything thinkable?

Apraksin, do you have kids? How would you feel if, based on an arbitrary call from someone who has a grudge against you, your child is taken away and you never see it. I don't have kids yet, but I don't want to end up in such a situation.

And I am not blowing it out of proportion - I am just following a case as it evolves. It's not my fault that you cannot read about such cases in Norwegian press and that parents are told not to contact the media under the treat of never seeing their children again.

CPS agencies are known for being used as fronts for child sex traffickers internationally. It is a problem for all CPS agencies world wide, not just Norway.

Apraskin won't be laughing either if his child is kidnapped by the CPS, to be sold to homosexual "foster parents". The gay lobby is behind the CPS child abductions in Norway. A large number of the abducted children are placed in gay foster homes.

WTF did I just read? Seriously, are you for real? Come on, the gay lobby that abducts children? I have neighbours a few blocks away here in my Norwegian town, a standard couple, male and female. He's a woodworker, she's a nurse. As a child she grew up with a mother that tied her to her bed with cables and administered daily beatings, also the mother starved her. Everybody knew what was going on but no one reported it to the CPS, talk about responsible adults hey? To this day she still wonders how no one took action and reported the abuse, cause god damn would she have preferd to have been "abducted" and raised by a couple of nice gays.

Because of her childhood she has a soft spot for abused children, so today she and her husband has adopted a foster child. This child was taken from it's heroin addict mother at the age of two, after living with daily abuse in a trash hellhole in Oslo with used syringes lying around on the floor. It was reported that shortly after birth the child showed severe abstinense from heroin withdrawal. The child today has mental issues and will probably never evolve real empathy for other animals and human beings. the health issues the child struggles with is to many to list here, and the child had to change school to a school for "special" children because the child simply could not understand how to interact with other children and showed signs of violence. I bet the child would prefer it immensely if the "Gay lobby" had snatched the child from it's mother at birth and placed it under the care of a couple of homosexuals.

This is the other side of the CPS, and stands as one of the reasons that the CPS won't allways talk about the individual cases. This may be hard to understand for some of you, but between kidnapping children for sex traficking or selling them to the gay lobby, the CPS actually tryes to help some kids who are in deep shit. Maybe that russian boy really is in need of protection, who are you or OP to say?



This thread just went retarded beyond description. I hereby solemnly swear I will never post in this thread again. Be well.

As you will not read, I just can't stop from commenting, for those that will none the less follow the evolving situation very diligently that I strongly support Orphans adoption by the gay lobby (as it's called here), but I am more skeptical on the case he (as he will not read) presented. It revealed a classical lack of faith of most die hard statist supporters, they can't seem (unless "the take care by" was voluntary, and "parenting" seems more appropriate) to admit that the situation of this "toxic" child (they will be very common sooner as you may imagine, thx to the narratives holders, as a question I don't think that woman you describe ever had access to raw heroin, only trashed), can improve with time. His Mother can start to act as a Mother, and who knows he could heal. So in this sense I wouldn't support an adoption, because long term there is still hope for the kid. However in the case of Orphans it's very rare (:D) that the dead come back to life, a caring couple seems very natural to me.

I am not sure if I agree with the previous users implications of this some how being an issue caused by homosexuals. This seems a bit extreme and like he is simply looking for maximum shock value. I do know for a fact however that CPS agencies ALL OVER THE WORLD are used as fronts for child trafficking. Organized child trafficking networks aside, CPS organizations are paid BIG MONEY when they adopt out other peoples children. The children in most demand are those from HEALTHY HOMES who have not suffered a lot of abuse. Therefore it is in the CPS's best interest even operating "legitimately" to blow small events out of proportion to ensure ones own paycheck. Remember CPS (at least in the US) operates COMPLETELY OUTSIDE the court system, and has its own "family courts" which came about from the support of eugenicists groups and often included forced sterilizations. It is a simple task to simply pretend these things aren't an issue. Because it is so horrible everyone refuses to even look at it. Ignoring the problem will not make it go away.

A Mission tailor-made for USMIC, it's gonna be dark if some failures are found, including a nice spot on the beach, we need to maintain occupancy...

It's the Russian "information war" again.

Also, Norwegian oil maybe?

The whole story sounds like speculative nonsense. For all we know, the innocent Russian "family" may have been people-traffickers, the story somehow went public, but the authorities wanted to avoid embarrassment so they twisted it around and made up some shit to brainwash the public with in their "free" media.

That would be consistent with the stealthy way in which Russia tries to expand its influence and empire:

1) Have double-standards for the law inside and outside of their federation.
2) Criminals can expect harsh prison sentences, for crimes committed INSIDE Russia.
3) But as soon as they cross the border to Europe, it's somebody else's problem.
4) Russia takes it a step further and protects criminals by being extremely sceptical of any sense of law or justice on the outside. The normal practice in Europe seems to be to only imprison criminals with a local passport or some kind of residency rights, while the others get extradited back to their country of origin. This is very convenient for Russian criminals (and for Russia) because as long as they only commit crimes OUTSIDE of Russia, they never get punished.
5) Russia never pays for the costs that the other countries incur from the criminality.


Yup

The loot was expanded first. If they believe to have invented anything, including mercilessness, they will be very disappointed by their knowledge... all bases covered and more.

1. not a surprise, when the putin is a criminal
2. normal
3. perfect (we know how to monetize better)
4. ahahaha... once the wall is crossed, and a crime is committed there is no way out in one piece... understand who can, or not. it doesn't change a damn thing. The safety of all Children is taken care with the utmost care.
5. they will, more than they ever imagined.

the Russian information war is lame because it's mostly fake and they are too afraid to critize the boss, showing the lack of Unity. Very good, depending on the side. the citadel will be hashed. All stones will become dust.

Back to the little kids: how can they separate them from their homes just like that? Foreign kids can not talk their mother tongue to their parents? This is good for the kids? This is lawful and legal??  Something badly rotten in Norway. The world needs to hear about this

But I happen to know. It is not at all secret, since the mother, Sagarika, has with every right made totally public everything about the case. The child protection services (CPS) certainly DID use such things as hand-feeding and sleeping-arrangements as serious arguments. The son has some neurological trouble, which the BUP (child and youth psychiatry unit) and the CPS certainly did not bother about helping the family with. They branded the mother with a totally false and unfounded psychiatric 'diagnosis' and held that the son's trouble was that he had 'an attachment disorder' caused by the mother. 'Attachment theory' is a favourite quack diagnosis with the CPS, because it is quite untestable. It stems from psychoanalyst John Bowlby and has, in spite of research being done on it, very weak research support, and such support as there seems to be, could equally well be due to other causes.

Stavanger CPS tried to force Sagarika to sign away every right to ever go to court - in India!
They finally had to let the children go back to India, to stay with their paternal uncle, but Sagarika has succeeded in getting them back, going to the Indian courts. The local CPS where she lives has fully supported her, she has been thoroughly tested and evaluated by Indian psychiatrists and psychologists, who concluded that she was completely normal in spite of all she had been put through in Norway. She is taking the very best care of both her children, both with their daily care, finding special resources for the son and a special school for him, and her family fortunately understand completely all about the case and that Sagarika is blameless.

Articles relating to this India/Stavanger case:
Lots in Norwegian, but also lots of links to articles in English:
Indiske barn konfiskert - http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=314&t=6808

A very competent group of lawyers, politicians and social scientists in India has worked very thoroughly on this case and others. They have come up with several reports and a petition to the Indian Human Rights Commission.

The Confiscation of the Bhattacharya Children by Norwegian Authorities - A Case Study
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=34177#p34177
http://r-b-v.net/dokument/case-study-final.pdf

We should note a sentence on p 30: "The Bhattacharya care proceedings make for sickening reading".

Humanitarian Crisis for Indian children and their families in confiscatory child care proceedings abroad
http://dokument.r-b-v.net/india/nhrc-petition-121012.pdf

Press announcement:
Save Indian Children From Confiscatory Proceedings Abroad
http://dokument.r-b-v.net/india/press-release.pdf

Suranya Aiyar - At press conference held on 12 October 2012 at the Women's Press Club
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=32769#p32769

Materials Filed with Petition to NHRC
http://dokument.r-b-v.net/india/supporting-materials-with-petition-121012.pdf

Lots of articles here, some of them relating to the Bhattacharya case:
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewforum.php?f=56

You might like to look at an article I wrote myself when the case was running. It was published by the newspaper The Hindu in Chennai:
The iron hand that rocks the cradle
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/the-iron-hand-that-rocks-the-cradle/article2842917.ece

*

Good luck to readers, Nemo and others. Even if Apraksin does not care, it is well worth caring and reading and finding documentation. The CPS is a menace and our Norwegian authorities lie endlessly about the "welfare" they carry out.

Marianne Haslev Skånland, Oslo

Thank you, Marianne, for not being indifferent, and for providing more information about the Indian case.


TECSHARE, you have pretty much summed up the reason why I started this topic. There maybe other big problems in the world, but at the root of them all lies indifference and apathy.

I haven't seen any new updates on the case of the 5-year-old kid after mid-november, but I'll be on the lookout. It might happen that the case will be resolved quietly, without the public learning of the outcome...

May I bring in another few links (many of them immodestly, since they are links to my own writings), as well as an important point that has not been mentioned yet.

The links, illustrating that this is quite a serious and entrenched problem:

Christopher Booker:
Indians join Slovaks in protesting against UK child snatchers
27 October 2012
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/9637487/Indians-join-Slovaks-in-protesting-against-UK-child-snatchers.html

Booker is a senior journalist/writer for The Telegraph, and has written extensively on the CPS atrocities taking place in Britain. You will find more articles of his on this question by googling his name plus some such words as "child snatching"; also, I have listed several of his articles here (where admittedly I have dealt rather harshly with him):

British press discovers the child 'protection' racket?
22 April 2012
http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page130/page130.html


Just now:

Jan Simonsen:
Child protection case damages Norway's reputation in the Czech republic
28 November 2014
http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page226/page226.html

Marianne Haslev Skånland:
Norwegian CPS action against Russian families - what is the truth?
26 November 2014
http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page224/page224.html

– Russia is alarmed at Norwegian child protection (CPS)
15 November 2014
http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page220/page220.html

**

The argument I think highly relevant is this:

The right of children to be with their own parents is as much the children's right as the parents' right. We hear almost exclusively from the parents of the injured and destroyed families, because they have a voice, while the children are mostly unable to stand up and be heard. But that does not mean that they do not suffer. Here is what Polish film-maker Roman Polanski had to say about life during the war, when he was a child:

"The strength that helped [my father] to survive is that he wanted to see me. He knew he had a child outside. …. I was a kid and I wanted to live; I wanted to see my parents. Among all possible type of suffering the greatest was the separation from the parents. I think for the child this is the saddest and most tragic – I would say – thing. Lack of comfort, hunger, whatever – it's absolutely secondary. But longing to see my father walking in the snow towards me, that was the real sad thing. Wanting to see my mother, who was taken the first."

The quotation is from the extra material on the dvd of "The Pianist":
http://www.mhskanland.net/page120/page187/page187.html

Article 8 in the European Convention of Human Rights is about the right to respect for one's private and family life. It makes clear that the right to enjoy one's family life is a MUTUAL right for parents and children. On this score the ECHR is quite a bit better than the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, which to a greater extent talks of the child and his/her rights in isolation, and in downright opposition to the rights of parents.

The right to be together of course is overridden when the parents abuse the child or hinder it getting food, education, companionship of other children, and so on. But basically: The feelings of love that parents have for their children is not in opposition to the rights of the children, they are the same: the right to be together. Perhaps somebody might find something useful here?:

Is biological kinship irrelevant for the life of human beings?
11 March 2012
http://www.mhskanland.net/page62/page123/page123.html

Anyway, the mutual right to be together, considered in addition to the sufferings of a child (who is even more helpless) taken from its parents without compelling, protective reason, means that we should not in such cases ask so much: "Does this parent deserve to keep his/her child?", we should ask: "Does this child deserve to be deprived of its parent(s)?" All parents are imperfect, but they are the only parents that child has, and the love a child has for its parents springs from the most valuable sides of nature.

Marianne Haslev Skånland, Oslo

Thank you very much, Marianne. Of course your links and you thoughts are most welcome. They paint and even more complete and scary picture. So now a family from Czechia has been touched as well...

The main Norwegian state channel, NRK had a report today around the outrage at Barnevern in Russia.
http://tv.nrk.no/serie/dagsrevyen (about 15 minutes into the sending).

Interestingly, the report did not say anything about the case that brought forth the outraged. They only reported about the reaction and showed snippets from the Russian TV sending "Special Correspondent" (where even some Norwegian parents, who lost their children, participated). The whole report was angled to say "hey, look, how those Russians are overreacting" and to calm the population that all is well in the kingdom and that CPS is doing everything by the book (but what book?).

---

Even a shortened reading of that Czech case that Marianne linked to, makes for sickening read: CPS takes one child on the grounds that he said to the kindergarten teacher that his father touched his PJ (father charged with sexual abuse). Court then dismisses the case as the interrogation of the child was made in a leading manner. Police closes the case for the lack of evidence. All s fine? No, the family should have fled from Norway. Next CPS takes both boys and places them in a foster family. Mother is told that she will get her children if she divorces their father. She does so. Family broken. CPS lied (big surprise) - instead of getting the children back, she is further limited to seeing them twice a year. They are not allowed to speach Czech and to hug their mother. And now for the final act of cruelty: the children are to be adopted away to the foster family, never to see their mother again. She is fighting now through EU Parliament.

---

On the 17th of May, the independence day, Norway is showing the world its happy face - child processions. Look, we care for children, we don't show off our arms as other nations do. Maybe there should be a group in those 17th May processions, consisting of parents, whose children were taken and of children who grew up in captivity to show the problem to the nation?

There are hundreds of Norwegian anti-CPS groups on Facebook. The largest (2-3 groups) has 5000-6000 members.

They had hardly been so big if there was nothing seriously wrong with child welfare. Since Norway a small country...

"Forumet Redd Våre Barn" is about the same.

Section for English speakers
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewforum.php?f=56

I know the 1st case. They are Czechs. It is not bullshit.

The organisation Fampo har collected several articles exposing what Norwegian authorities are doing in CPS cases at http://www.fampo.no/cps.html (http://www.fampo.no/cps.html).

One of the articles that I will recommend is a report exposing the lousy methodology and lack of judicial security in CPS cases: http://www.fampo.no/report_on_the_norwegian_cps.pdf (http://www.fampo.no/report_on_the_norwegian_cps.pdf).

One also finds a collection of articles on how children and youth risk being treated if they first find themselves in the CPS system (institutions or foster homes): http://www.fampo.no/cps1.html (http://www.fampo.no/cps1.html).

  
In the Czech case there are promising developments. The Czech parliament has passed decisions about what Czechia should do about this case and how child protection is to be in general, the Czech prime minister will request a meeting with the Norwegian prime minister, the Czech president is also active, they will take the case up in the European Union, the news in Czechia is chockablock full of the case, people comment, ridiculing the Norwegian CPS, drawing caricatures of them as ogres, and so on.

Some stuff is available in Norwegian, rather less in English (at least I haven't had the time or intelligence to find it), but here is a thread I have made for the case - there is something in English here as well, e.g the ridiculous statement Norway has come up with through the embassy in Prague (Norway always coughs up these silly blah-blahs about how good the CPS system is):

"Tsjekkisk familie hardt rammet av det norske barnevernet" (Czech family seriously injured by Norwegian CPS)
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=314&t=7715

I have previously linked to Jan Simonsen's article here on bitcoin, but there is more information now.

*

Last night I pulled myself together and produced an English translation of an article I wrote 3 years ago about a Polish case; the case is rather revealing about the CPS:

"Judgment in Poland: a nine-year-old girl NOT to be extradited by Norway"
http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page229/page229.html

My hope is that although Czechs and Poles have neighbourly quarrels, this case, in which Poland protected the family from Norwegian child destruction, should encourage the Czechs too.

  

In 2011 Poland also refused to extradite to Norway a Russian boy that escaped from Norwegian CPS under similar conditions:
http://english.pravda.ru/society/stories/05-10-2011/119234-russian_boy_schengen-0/

It's good to know that Norwegian CPS is in the searchlight of the European countries. Though Norwegian CPS consistently ignores court orders, maybe if enough pressure is put on it, something will budge.

As for the case of Oscar, it seems to have completely vanished from the newsfront in Russia.  :-\

Does anyone here see the pattern of CPS treating children like a commodity and or property?

I guess yes. There is a law that children belong to state not to family. It is like wet dream of all nazis or Stalinists, where children belonged to state party.

Well appearance of Quisling was not a coincidence. No wonder that in that culture emerge ppl like Breivik.

I'd say, more like commodity (slavery). There is more respect toward private property that parents might own, than to the children that they care fore.

I think many of us see it and I agree, especially as regards "commodity".

The terms "property" and "commodity" are problematic though. An accusation of treating their children as such is always being levelled at parents who want their children to be with them, not to be carted off to foster homes or other CPS places, once the CPS has got its eyes on the family and wants the children. The CPS (and many many ordinary people) say "The children are not your property, you know, and they are not a commodity, they have rights of their own".

Children should certainly not be the property of the state, of the school system, of various "child expert" professions, of social workers, etc. The reason is that that is not good for children, not for their objective safety, nor for their emotions.

I should say that in a good sense children are the property of their parents, just as the parents are the property of their children, because parents have feelings, instincts and impulses which are nature's best guard for the children. Children, on the other hand, have a complementary feeling of love, peace, safety when they are close to their parents, so that they tend to seek the parents when dangers threaten. Certainly there are individuals who fail utterly to love and protect their offspring, and then society is forced to step in and protect those children. But that is not the normal thing, it is an exception, while the CPS "believes" that the parents are generally just about more dangerous than anybody else. Real life is the opposite and research confirms this: children are more at risk of abuse and neglect everywhere else than with their own parents, and the children's feelings mirror this.

Compare the work of the utmost importance which the evolutionary psychologists Martin Daly and Margo Wilson have done on child abuse. It can easily be found by searching with their names, but if you find no better source, then I have made a summary of some of it here, especially in sections 7 and 8:

Child abuse which the child protection authorities do not want to know about - 2:
Violence against step-children compared to genetic children - Daly & Wilson's research
http://www.mhskanland.net/page62/page131/page131.html
15 May 2012

I think a couple of paragraphs from a reference I gave above, to "Is biological kinship irrelevant …", may also be relevant:

    "The above argument gives an evolutionary-genetic explanation of why it is that parents feel they must have their children with them, close to, and why children feel they must be with their own parents and seek to be near them when the world outside is uncertain, threatening, painful or difficult. Nor do I know of any other reasonable explanation of this behaviour in the research literature. If children and parents did not by instinct seek each other and stick together, the parents could not give care and protection in the practical situations where it is needed and the children could not receive it. The children would then be far more exposed to the dangers of this world. Giving priority to family solidarity as a matter of course is therefore perfectly rational behaviour and contributes, from an evolutionary perspective, to the fitness of the family line.
    This does not imply that family relationships are always idyllic. Some fail, and there is plenty of dissension and discord and plenty of problems. A household is a community which needs to fulfil several functions for its members. If not carried out by close relatives, who feel a nature-based love and solidarity, piety and responsiveness towards each other, these functions must be carried out by other constellations of persons. In that case the problems and conflicts and maladjustments and hatreds that arise are more comprehensive, more frequent and more difficult to overcome, and the number of such constellations which break down is correspondingly higher. This is serious for children, who most need a community which functions. Conflicts, violence and abuse is stongly over-represented in orphanages/children's homes and foster homes wherever they have been investigated in reliable research and brought into daylight (the authorities in all countries, including Norway, have a tendency to hide such facts to the best of their ability)."

Our Western social services & co simply do not understand the nature of family love. Magne Raundalen, the highly decorated psychologist who headed the committee set up by our authorities to investigate the nature of "attachment" and its possible relation to biology, said triumphantly in the important radio-and-tv program Dagsnytt 18 (news at 6 pm) - when they had concluded their work, that the committee had not found any research at all pointing to biological parents being in any special position relating to children. My own conclusion is of course that it means that Raundalen is incompetent to do research. After all, what about the world-wide evidence of what happens to children in orphanages and foster homes, while they are there and later in life? Even with adoption there are plenty of problems, actually. What about grown-up adopteds who search for their relatives? What about foster children who flee repeatedly and try to get back to their parents?
  

Absolutely agrees with what I know and info I have gathered.. When I started to look into CPS matters, I found very informative websites from the USA, also some in Britain, and I corresponded with some of the people running them. In the US there were Cheryl Barnes, Pamela Gaston, Linda Martin, Freekaler, lots of sensible people writing e.g. on "Join hands" (until it was apparently taken over by other people with just about the opposite views), there are people in Canada struggling against the CPS, and in Australia. My French and German are not good, I am ashamed to say, so it is more trouble for me to find CPS-fighting people there, but they do exist.

The destructive actions and beliefs of the CPS make a very heavy international trend, fairly entrenched in the Western world, but tending to spread to other countries once they start increasing their production of social workers and psychologists.

Or what do you think, Tecshare?

Lol broke countries need to make lies like this  :) they so scared their own educated people leaving to rich places like norway  :) Keep lying, we keep laughing  :)

When you want to protect more, you have the risk of lowering the freedom. Taking children away from their parents is very dangerous.

Nice to see EU nations such as the Czech Rep. protecting their citizen's rights. Norway might be filthy rich. But that doesn't mean that they have the right to kidnap foreign children and then gave them to Norwegian homosexual foster-parents.

I would pretty much agree. I would go even further and say the people running these trafficking rings are the most dangerous organized crime group on the planet. Evidence goes missing from police custody, witnesses go missing or die, ties with powerful people make it "go away" time and time again. Furthermore the children are used as a tool of extortion to control these degenerates who consume them. Wealthy people find degenerates and support their positions in office or otherwise fuel their rise to power. They them feed them children, document it, and now they have a 100% obedient walking meat puppet for life. That person now does what they are told or they lose everything and end up getting raped to death in prison. This is how the cartels and other organized crime groups control key individuals in power, and it puts everyone at risk.

A propos what bryant.coleman wrote:

I did a quick search for Czech language articles about Eva Michaláková's case, with a combination of three words:
děti  (Czech, means "children")
Norsku (Czech, means "Norway" or "Norwegian")
barnevern (Norwegian, means "child protection")

The result was an overwhelming list of articles, loads of them.

Some include videos. The following two are worth looking at even if one cannot follow the dialogue. One understands most of what is going on anyway. Re the actual dialogue, I am useless, I understand only very few isolated words about things we knew already. Possibly somebody here is competent and has the time to give some more info about what they say? I noticed at Nemo1024 commented above on a Russian program, he might be Slavic-proficient?


This:
Vláda má požádat Norsko o vysvětlení případu odebraných dětí
http://www.ceskatelevize.cz/ct24/domaci/294938-vlada-ma-pozadat-norsko-o-vysvetleni-pripadu-odebranych-deti/

contains a 2 minute news item, in which we see the case taken up in the Czech parliament.

•

This one is a Russian program, 28 minutes long, with Czech texting:
Juvenilní justice v Norsku - Teror byznysu s dětmi a stát ve státě - BARNEVERN
http://www.zvedavec.org/komentare/2014/12/6253-juvenilni-justice-v-norsku.htm

The Russian children's ombudsman is there several times, and many mothers, very unhappy. There are quick glimpses from the India case and the Poland case. Re the pictures from the India case, I am not sure that they have much important info about the case, because the pictures are mainly of the uncle.

A small addition still to what I have written about the India / Stavanger case:
At at the time, an Indian website carrying petitions - about all sorts of things, and luckily leaving their old threads in to be read - had an excellent suggestion, in comic style: "Throw a shoe on Norway"
http://www.haindavakeralam.com/hkpage.aspx?PageID=15323&SKIN=W

•

Here is another thread from them, where yours truly could not resist posting updates for readers:
" For Immediate Action - Norway's Child Protection Services Separates Indian Family"
http://www.haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?PageID=15314

An obvious troll is obvious. Someone jumps in without reading the topic to understand that it's started by someone who lived in Norway for most of his life, that the recent posters are Norwegians, that the cases are well-documented, that the alarms have been going off from Norwegian own human rights organisations, that international cases is just a small fraction of CPS transgressions (though they make the most noise).
Oh, well, I hope for your sake that you don't have children, because you seem to be totally incapable of empathy.


I would go a bit further there. It seems to me that the Western system has been systematically destroying the institute of family. In Norway it started happening after oil was found in the 70's and when the country over night became rich.

A family is being attacked on subtle levels. Some examples: if a child lives with parents after it reaches 16, it is considered shameful - you "live at home" (as opposed to living on the street?). The state provides loans for children who move out (borteboerstipend) even if you move to a cellar apartment next street, thus economically enticing a split of the family. A child, after he is 18 is not legally considered part of the family - for example a wife can get medical info for her husband at a doctor's, but a woman would be denied getting similar information for her grown-up child. Banks make money of this drive to move children from their homes and to make them take loans to buy new housing. And as a result, elderly people end up being alone with children who only remember about their parents for Christmas and birthdays.


Sorry, Czech is too far away from Russian to understand fluently, I can only make out a few words, much like understanding Dutch for a Norwegian. If it were Bulgarian or Serbian/Croatian, then it would be easier.
Google translate gives a passable translation, though:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ceskatelevize.cz%2Fct24%2Fdomaci%2F294938-vlada-ma-pozadat-norsko-o-vysvetleni-pripadu-odebranych-deti%2F&edit-text=&act=url

  
There is some more news from Prague. Jan Simonsen has been to a meeting with a Czech EU-parliamentary representative, and afterwards to an interview on direct-sent tv. There will probably be a longer interview in a couple of days.

There are articles about it in several newspapers/websites. I have updated the Czechia thread on rbv:
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=314&t=7715

Jan's own report of this is on his blog, but it is in Norwegian, unfortunately for most of us/you:
Kritiserte norsk barnevern på tsjekkisk TV (Criticised Norwegian child protection on Czech tv)
http://www.frie-ytringer.com/2014/12/13/kritiserte-norsk-barnevern-pa-tsjekkisk-tv/

One short (not quite accurate) article is in English:
Norwegian politician pledges help with Czech custody case
PRAGUE POST | The Voice of Prague, 13 December 2014
http://www.praguepost.com/eu-news/43262-norwegian-politician-pledges-help-with-czech-custody-case

Here is a video of the interview. Simonsen speaks English, it is overlaid by a simultaneous translation into Czech:
přehrát video
http://www.ceskatelevize.cz/porady/1096898594-udalosti-komentare/214411000371212/video/369456
  

I should perhaps have been more detailed about what I know and don't know about this aspect:

I too have seen a number of claims and even websites claiming that when children are taken by the social services it is in order to use them as sex slaves in pedophile circles, or even for organ donation (which would mean murder, of course).

I do not doubt that people who are inclined to commit such crimes, would find children bereaved of their parents very handy. But it implies a considerable degree of widespread conspiracy and I am by nature (or have become so through a long life) quite sceptical of conspiracy assumptions unless they are extra solidly proven. When it comes to CPS cases, the ordinary desire for jobs, money, prestige, children is such a prominent, clear motive for so many CPS workers, psychologists, foster 'parents' and people wanting to adopt, that we need go no further to show up the nasty sides of this 'business'.

In all the many cases of forced child removals around me which I know something of, the children are alive, and they are not planted in pedophile rings, although the percentage of foster children who end up in crime etc is frightening. But I do know of cases in which foster children are sexually abused by a foster parent or by foster 'siblings', or in institutions, and I am in no doubt that there are cases of people with pedophile interests going into the 'child care professions' or enlisting as foster parents with a special motive. Indeed one case immediately springs to mind: the 'Manavgat case': you can read about it by clicking into the article in The Hindu here: http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7703 , and click the link in the article to "The Manavgat case in Turkey - Norway is the kidnapper".  

In that case, a foster father was vigorously defended and protected by Stavanger CPS (same leader, Gunnar Toresen, as in the India / Stavanger case ) against all claims by the boys' parents and other family that the foster father might be abusing them. The CPS would not even investigate (oh well, they are not awfully clever investigators, they are better as unfounded accusers of parents). When at long last the case against this foster father came up AND he was found guilty (and criminal cases are public, including the name of the defendant), and Toresen was later again asked about it, he said that such cases of abuse by foster parents were so terribly, terribly rare that they could never have foreseen it! - - Talk of upside down reasoning and upside down information.

I recently found a article companied by a video that showed how a psychologist pressured a six years old girl to confirm that she had been sexually abused. The result was that the girl was taken from her family and placed in several foster homes.

One can read about this case here: http://www.fampo.no/six_years_old_girl_manipulated_by_psychologist.html (http://www.fampo.no/six_years_old_girl_manipulated_by_psychologist.html).

The Norwegian site is named "Barnefjern" (Child remover) and apt co-sounder to the official "Barnevern" (Child protection)
http://www.barnefjern.org/her-blir-jenta-6-manipulert-av-en-psykolog/

That transcript bit! Bloody hell! And the 6-year old girl spent 4 hours in interrogation until she confessed...

It seems the psychologist has some pedo-sadistic disorder.

Nemo1024 must be one of those paid russian trolls  :) How much they pay you?  :) Can I join ?

Who is paying him? Illuminati? Satanists? Ripple labs?

please explain!

Looks like you are paying  :)

Oh crap. I am uncovered.
Now I will poison everyone reading this thread with Polonium (through blockchain).

  
I am very glad to see the video which Erik translated something from, because this was a case I remember fairly well, and I have in fact been wondering whether it was possible to find the video. And here it is! Cheers for barnefjern.org who found it and Erik for translating and bringing it to our attention!

The whole video, (including the part in which the psychologist Turid Kavli pressed and pressed the 6 year old girl into some kind of assent, by saying that she would not be let out of the room until she "confessed" that her stepfather had fucked her - Kavli uses just about the most vulgar and derogatory word for "fuck" too,) was actually a tv program sent on public television in Norway (about 10 - 18 years ago) either on tv2 or nrk, when the girl, then about 18-19 years old, had raised the case before the courts again, together with her stepfather (who had long since served his sentence, I seem to remember). He was then acquitted. Both the medical evidence and the psychobabble evidence used to convict him in the first court case had been perfectly incompetent.

In addition to interviewing the girl, they also interviewed Kavli, and as Scandinavian-speakers can hear, she makes no apology, in fact maintaining not only that she has done nothing wrong but fairly clearly sticks to it that although the proof might not be enough to ensure a conviction in court, it is so important to believe the children, and so many of them come afterwards and thank them. - Believe the children? Well, that girl was certainly one child whom Kavli did not believe.

Turid Kavli, as far as I remember, was later engaged to lead the so-called "trauma centre" in Trondheim, a place where they gave people psychotherapy and enticed them into "recalling repressed memories of sex abuse". The centre was at last shut down when a number of "patients" had complained that they certainly did not get any better from the "treatment" there, on the contrary they felt much worse.

But nobody has really taken the psychobabblers to task, ever. And just now in 2014 we are in Norway heading for a new deluge of sex abuse accusations, it seems, very many of which will no doubt be false and destroy new victims and families. Nor is it healthy for the future life of children to be pressed or psychobabbled into accusing their family members or others of abuse which has actually never taken place. Has anybody read Margaret Hagen's illuminating book Whores of the court ? She is/was a very realistic psychologist at Boston University doing research into perception. She investigated the psychobabble craze because her brother was suddenly accused of having committed abuse many years earlier, and she was thoroughly shocked at what clinical psychologists were doing. What did they base it on? On nothing, she writes. There is simply no research support at all for their claims.

All the people responsible for the last craze of false abuse accusations here in Norway had a set-back when the Bjugn case made it clear (though a lot of people will never admit it) that such accusations are quite often the product not of abuse but of unfounded speculations and beliefs of doctors and psychologists and social workers. But that was at the beginning of the 1990s. Now the crazies are back in full force.
  

Should I treat it as a compliment that you decided to start a personal defamation attack on me? To answer your question, no one's paying, but you can join, for free. What you need to qualify is pure heart, intolerance of unfairness, and a certain optimism that was characteristic of Don Quixot.

The India / Stavanger case was an example of how Norway holds on to the children at all cost. It took action even from the Indian prime minister to get Norwegian government members to at last put sufficient pressure on the CPS boss in Stavanger to let the children be taken to their uncle. Norwegian authorities on all levels have given the CPS the right to decide what is best for children - against all common sense, because it is so obvious that they do not: they have no competence, no knowledge, no life's experience, and no respect for all that is known of the outcome of being separated from one's family, to make any such decision. And the politicians just do not do what they should do: Cancel the power of the CPS and deal with the court system etc directly. Cf my suggestion of a little revolution by setting up a "client committee" to do the job: Political program for child protection in local administration (http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page124/page124.html).

Sweden is just like Norway when it comes to having an almighty social service which confiscates children with gusto, and takes care that the children should be cut off from their family completely and never return. The Sweden / Malaysia case is a clear example:

Malaysian family in Sweden - children taken (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7458)

This is a long thread about the case - I hardly think any readers here will go into each article, but even the article titles give quite a bit of information, and the sheer abundance of articles shows the amount of publicity the case drew in Malaysia.

Here, the parents were charged with physical abuse of their children, and were later found guilty and given jail sentences. But why were the children not allowed to meet their relatives who went to Sweden to help? Oh no, no such thing. Again sit took action from the Malaysian prime minister, who sent a deputy foreign minister to Sweden to negotiate with the Swedish authorities for the children to be allowed to return to Malaysia. And notice an even clearer example of the Scandinavian country attempting to never let go: Even with the children back with their relatives in Malaysia, Sweden demands to have reports sent to them and claims to have custody rights! My guess is that the Malaysian authorities have had to say yes to that before Sweden would let the children out. One of the last articles (p 6 of the thread) is about this: Custodial rights return only if Sweden is satisfied. (http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2014/10/03/custodial-rights-return-only-if-sweden-is-satisfied/)
  
One might ask whether Western countries have taken leave of their senses completely. It seems to be kind of slave states we are running.

  

I found a couple of articles in English but published in Czechia about the Czech case we discussed especially on p 5 of this thread. The articles are from the middle of December but new enough - i.e. they contain some interesting bits. The Czechs have not calmed down about this case. I love the photo of the demonstration outside the Norwegian embassy in Prague. Both articles are open for comments, by the way.

Czech children to spend fourth Christmas in Norwegian foster care (http://www.praguepost.com/eu-news/43179-czech-children-to-spend-fourth-christmas-in-norwegian-foster-care)
The Prague Post, 10 December 2014

Mother files new custody complaint in Norway (http://mypraguemag.com/mother-files-new-custody-complaint-in-norway/)
Step is needed for Czech government to increase diplomatic pressure
MyPrague Magazine, 18 December 2014

  

I don't care from which system the child and the mother are. I don't have to believe what ever your system tell me. I want to try it. Give me my fedex box, open it, open 2 bottles one for you, one for me. hmmm Coke. Great. next.

So if you believe to be able to deflect public eyes from your malpractices with a digitalizer still running, your are fucking pathetic. So to all of you questioning what is happening when a child is separated by the state from his mother, keep going. those little muppets telling you to stfu and accept their truth, say nothing to them, just move trough their emptiness.

so this was a little message of motivation :). And remember it's a forum based on TRUSTLESS technology.

A case from May last year, when 3 Russian girls (aged 13, 5 and 3) were taken right from their home and their parents, without even checking the allegations. I didn't know about that one either!

http://www.barnefjern.org/norways-removal-of-children-from-russian-mother-illegal-astakhov/

  
Here is a case in Britain, concerning children of Gujarati origin, which has stirred some sympathy in India:

Save Indian Children from First World Governments (http://blogs.swarajyamag.com/2015/01/06/save-indian-children-from-first-world-governments/)
blogs.Swarajya, 6 January 2015

British child "protection" is running amuck at the moment, especially with forced adoptions. I think I wrote something about that above.

Wow what kind of system is this? Guilty until proven innocent? That is some scary shit for parents

I feel like here in the US the kid would have to have noticeable bruises or some kind of trauma for child protective services to get involved.

Unfortunately US CPS is not much better. A lot of people don't realize that CPS is part of a "family court" which falls completely outside of the regular judicial system. This is a vestigial remainder of former eugenics courts from the past often used for forced sterilizations of minorities and "defectives". CPS is almost completely outside of the law, even in the US.

  
The BBC programme Question Time, today 8 January, (that is: now tonight,) http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04xtl6z, will probably have an interview with the parents and/or about the British case concerning the two Gujarati children which I wrote a little about above, in a posting on the 6 Jan:

Save Indian Children from First World Governments (http://blogs.swarajyamag.com/2015/01/06/save-indian-children-from-first-world-governments/)
blogs.Swarajya, 6 January 2015

It says on BBC's webpage that the programme will be available shortly after the broadcast.

  

I'm not really sure of the specifics after CPS gets involved but doesn't it take a serious situation to actually get CPS involved to have them take the child away?

In Norway it seems like I could simply make an anonymous report, and they would come take the child away without any other questions.

Interesting. decades ago, the Swiss authorities did a similar thing, abducting children from their families and placing them as slaves with farmers. One of the darkest spots in Swiss history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verdingkinder

Incredible that this is happening again, but on the other hand, people would not work for the government if they were not mentally ill, or unconscionable enough to hurt their fellow citizens in return for job security.  :o

The verdingkinder spirit is still highly alive in government authorities today, in Switzerland and elsewhere

If they could, governments would take children from their parents right after birth and turn them into obedient slaves. Switzerland has mandatory Kindergarten now, Germany tax financed daycares, and England school uniforms ... grab them while they're young.

  



Tecshare is right (unfortunately). Especially in the years 2000 - around 2005 I was in touch with a number of Americans, who wrote about their CPS cases, or other people's cases, on the internet, and I also mailed back and forth with some of them. America is fully as bad as Western Europe. One reason is almost certainly that most of the quack psychology that is used in so many child protection cases (and which underpins general beliefs about childhood and people) is extra popular in America; some of it has been invented there (though the biggest, baddest wolf Freud was of course European). For instance, the scandalous "kindergarten cases" - McMartin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial) and others, are not an entirely different issue from what we are discussing.

*

There are and have been several US-based websites about CPS cases that are full of information from, among other things, official sources. This one has been running for several years:
Fight CPS (http://fightcps.com)

*

Also deserving some attention is the testimony of Nancy Shaefer, a senator in Georgia:
Nancy Shaefer exposes the EVIL CPS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TcDTJlPWbE)
On youtube 2009

Nancy Shaefer lost her senatie seat probably because of her fight for CPS-attacked families. She died under unclear circumstances; there were more than scattered rumours that she might have been killed precisely because she had fought strongly in the Senate of Georgia to have CPS cruelties stopped.

*

One particular article from Massachusetts News (that publication is known to be ultra-something-whatever-you-call-it in American politics, but I have found them credible in several articles I have seen about CPS matters and have found some independent confirmation):
Social Workers Meet Counter Protest at State House (http://www.massnews.com/2002_editions/03_Mar/31502social.htm)

Note: Here, then, we have social workers wanting money and jobs, and justifying their demands by reading out a list of a hundred children who have died, implying that social workers prevent children dying. Then they are faced with the information that 79 had died in CPS care, and the social workers actually confirmed that the 79 were among the hundred!

*

Koshgel is quite right to raise the question of whether things are the same in the USA, because that is what most of us think of immediately when we hear of abuse carried out by the social service: "It may be like that in some other country but I have never noticed it here at home in my own country."

The reason is that unfortunately, it is something like abuse in psychiatric hospitals: it affects relatively few people. We have grown up in/into a culture we then feel we know well, and there are always these "explanations" around: that the people who tell horror-stories about the CPS must be exaggerating, that they are bad parents, that they lie, that they are mentally unstable, that because they are involved, they are not objective. Some are - -, some do - -, but it pales beside what the social services do - serviced of people officially employed to assist children.

The bottom line is: The social services lie, and they have taken a leaf out of Joseph Goebbels' book: Don't tell small lies, because people are used to doing that themselves, so they will recognise them as lies. If you want to lie, tell huge lies, then people will say that this is so enormous that it can't be a lie.

  
After I had written the above, I did a search with some combinations of words like "child" "protective" services" "USA" "parents" etc, and up came of course an unending series. While not all protesters' stories seem verifiable, there are more than enough. I also suddenly remembered one, rare story I had of a US court protecting a girl against the CPS (I suppose it is rare because the courts so often accept whatever the CPS says and does, like it is here in Norway). I had myself written a comment, but thought mistakenly that I remembered that it took place in Florida, no doubt because there has been a great deal of trouble about an over-active CPS in Florida. This, then, is Texas:

Texas teen gets restraining order against Child Protective Services (http://www.imperfectparent.com/topics/2011/09/30/texas-teen-gets-retraining-order-against-child-protective-services/)
30 September 2011

   "The family’s lawyer contends that thousands of children are needlessly taken from their families every year and placed into foster homes or group homes where they are abused.
    The girl’s family decided to fight back. They took CPS to court and asked for an order of protection, which the judge granted. The court ordered CPS to stay away from the girl and stop harming the chld in the name of “protecting” her."

Even though you don't hear about it much (unless you look), this is becoming an industry in the US, just like the prison industry, only for kids. Criminal organizations also infiltrate these offices and use them as fronts for child trafficking. As you mentioned before, the "big lie", this is just so horrific, people's minds refuse to believe it, just to avoid the mental anguish of having consciousness of such a horrible system that literally eats children for profit. Furthermore that instantly begs them to question... what are you going to do about it? People would rather pretend that these things don't exist so they can continue their lives an not feel obligated to correct society and humanity by simply denying reality.

Truer words have not been spoken. Hear! Hear!

  
My fingers itch hyperactively to comment on several things in this thread, among them something back on p 3 from October/November, but let me first take up one posting which I consider to be among the most important recently:


We should take note: 1) this is happening - or has been going on - in many or even most countries (I think) in the Western world, and 2) it is not new. The whole history of how society or groups of do-good-ers have considered it their right to decide over and handle children is relevant.

As regards Switzerland: I am so ashamed that I am such a slow reader of German - I have to look up the dictionary all the time (and have no excuse, it is only laziness that I have never passed the threshold of good vocabulary incorporation) - my deficient German vocabulary makes it hard for me to search the web efficiently for articles and stuff in German. If leopard2 has some more interesting links, please post! In English or in German.

I remember there has been at least one child protection case in the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg against Austria in which Austria was found guilty of a violation. I have also read one verdict from a Strasbourg case against Switzerland, in which Switzerland in fact won against the applicants. (In my opinion the state definitely should not have won.) I did not concern a child, but an old woman. The social workers had her forcibly moved to a "foster home" because she would not keep decent cleanliness at her home and the social workers claimed they could not help her there. So, in Switzerland it seems to be forbidden for adults to choose to be left in peace and go to hell if one wants.

What leopard2 says about mandatory kindergarten is a clear warning. We have sort of almost the same thing in Scandinavia, perhaps even more reprehensible, because it is not what it claims to be: officially it is not obligatory to have your children in kindergarten, but if you don't, all manner of "child expert" units are no end busy finding other faults with the child and you, claiming that if your child was at a kindergarten and did not see so much of you, these deficiencies would not be there. And of course, kindergarten personnel are taught to "diagnose" everything a child does and says as a proof of failed parenting. So then they take the child away. I have referred to one case which was on tv and in the press some years ago, and although there was a sort of mild reaction against the kindergarten and the CPS in the case, there was not - and never is - any change in the general attitude that everybody except the parents know best. It is case c) here:
The Child Protection Service (CPS) – unfortunately the cause of grievous harm
Part 2: Content, dimensions, causes and mechanisms of CPS activities  (http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page125/page125.html)

Some examples of kindergarten activities which may also support our understanding of the present system are found here (the whole list gives examples of claims which various institutions and their employees use to prove that children must not live with their parents): examples 12, 32, 35:
An incomplete list of reasons given by the child protection services (CPS) of the Nordic countries for depriving children of their parents (http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page122/page122.html)
  
There was a comment under an article of mine (http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/the-iron-hand-that-rocks-the-cradle/article2842917.ece) in 2012 about Switzerland - I take the chance of showing it in its entirety:
"I saw a subtitled documentary on french channel TV5 about switzerland
and how it had been removing children from their homes for years for
the mildest of pranks like hiding the clothes from the clothes line of
a grouchy neighbour or listening to modern music not conforming to a
dress code They were kept in juvenile homes for years together .There
were actual victims( the children now adults )..speaking out about how
their lives had been ruined by this ..and their parents too similarly
had no recourse to the law to get their children ..the state
organisation had pychologist which branded them with tags like sexual
adicts ( because some underclothes had also been in the clothes hidden
from the clothesline )
The swiss story too echoed the things in this article and I think it
would be great if the hindu continues its coverage.
from:  Vinita Gill
Posted on: Jan 31, 2012 at 09:57 IST"

PS: I see that the Wikipedia article links to info about a film: Der Verdingbub (The Foster Boy). I am going to try to get hold of it.

  

  
  

I agree one would think it must take a very serious initial trigger to make the CPS take up a case. That is, however, not the case. And yes, an anonymous tip is all they need. Sweden and Denmark are the same. (Finland is probably much the same too, but the information is not so easily accessible to Scandinavians, since Finnish and Scandinavian are not mutually intelligible languages.)

Cases which turn out to be very serious and probably looked fairly serious from the start, are in fact sometimes not taken up by the CPS at all. Thus, we have in Norway over the last few years had one little boy die as the result of serious physical abuse by his stepfather. The CPS had been contacted (several times and over a long time, as far as I remember) but shrugged their shoulders. In another case several children (siblings) have been sexually abused over many years – the parents are now in prison (there has been some dispute among the children, but the convictions are probably just). Again, the CPS in the district had been contacted several times, but the leader of the CPS was a good friend of the mother in the case and refused to do anything. Just recently a boy has starved to death; his mother is now in a mental institution and the case is pending. The CPS had been called in but had "found nothing wrong".

Actually, I see that Grinder and Nemo1024 discussed such cases briefly back on 11 November:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=828129.msg9500611#msg9500611
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=828129.msg9510336#msg9510336
The case Grinder links to, is probably the same as the last one I just mentioned, but the article is open only to readers who are subscribers.

I more than agree that such cases do not outweigh the cases in which the CPS takes children who clearly should never have been deprived of their families, and whose life in foster care turns out a tragedy. They are not to be weighed against each other at all. The current CPS policy has nothing to do with perhaps making unfortunate decisions in complicated cases. Their basic tenet is that taking a child from its family and "planting" it in different soil has no ill effects whatsoever – all the bad results of foster care and institutional care are "explained" as after-effects of the parents' "deficiencies" and "bad influence"! Not even when the foster care is a long tragedy is the child allowed to go home. The CPS never acknowledge what their own actions have led to.

One reason why the CPS frequently develop psychobabble cases but omit to take up serious cases, is their incompetence – their inability to make realistic assessments or to use realistic measures to find out and to improve the situation for the child concerned. The CPS are really in over their heads in serious cases. Another reason is that in really violent families, in which the family members perhaps have ties to active criminals, the CPS are scared for themselves. Parents whose children are taken from them, react very strongly – as well they might – and if these parents belong to criminal circles, the social workers may be in serious danger.

Psychobabble cases, on the other hand, are all fiction, and this the social workers have been trained to develop. Such cases also provide a living for psychologists whom the CPS engage to write seemingly thorough reports, full of mumbo jumbo quackery, which impresses the courts. – Among such arguments one finds allegations of abnormal speech development or delayed language acquisition in the child. Neither the social workers nor the psychologists are competent at all to assess this, but it sounds scientific and of course they – on an equally unscientific basis – claim that the parents have caused this "deficiency" (I am a linguist myself, have been in court in such cases and have investigated several other cases and looked at what psychology textbooks say. It is deplorable.)

Many cases start by parents asking the social services for financial help. Others start because a child has difficulties at school or "makes trouble", or the parents "make trouble" for the school by demanding that the school stop some harassment going on between children. It is standard for head masters to claim that the child's troubles at school "in reality" stem from home.

Among the clearest indicators that the system is haywire, is the fact that the craziest, silliest arguments – even sheer invention – are all the time logged by the CPS and put into their reports which are presented in the courts, and that they are accepted by the courts. If a case was really so serious that the child had to be taken away from all its family, what need would they then have of coming up with the nonsense-arguments at all?

The list I referred to above:
An incomplete list of reasons given by the child protection services (CPS) of the Nordic countries for depriving children of their parents (http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page122/page122.html)
is not one of only "first causes" of CPS involvement, but it may still go some way towards providing an answer to koshgel's question.

The articles below also throw some light on the range of "arguments" used when the CPS practice their profession. In the second article, the last section "Seeing the CWS in practice" gives a few details of the way literally "nothing" is twisted into "something serious". The last article I have already referred to for case c), but the other cases too illustrate that destroying family ties may be started by anything the CPS fancies.  

Joar Tranoy:
Child protection and the law (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7036)

Aage Simonsen:
Norwegian child protection hits immigrants hard (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7035)

Marianne Haslev Skånland:
The Child Protection Service (CPS) – unfortunately the cause of grievous harm
Part 2: Content, dimensions, causes and mechanisms of CPS activities (http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page125/page125.html)

  

I can confirm this is also largely the case within the US as well. There is currently a lot of push here to remove the option for parents to choose to home school their children. In places where it is not specifically outlawed, many parents that home school their children are subjected to exponentially increased scrutiny. Many people don't know it, but upon a birth certificate being issued by the county of birth within the US, the parents are in effect making the child's legal person property of the county.

In effect all children are property of the state, not property of the parents as one might assume. Even into adulthood, unless this contractual entanglement with the county is nullified at the age of 18, the individual remains a ward of the state. This is the primary mechanism and claim to ownership the family courts use here to extricate children from their parents OUTSIDE the rule of law, because it falls within the realm of contract/maritime law, and they reside over the issue as a matter of contract law rather than common law.

Basically IMO, this mentality is a global push to force the socialization/indoctrination of children by requiring they participate in it by law, or by selective enforcement of the law. The concept of children being property of the state is at the core of socialist tenets, and it is a growing threat to the family unit world wide. The state wants to make sure its chattel property is properly indoctrinated and compliant, and the CPS system is just another way to mandate this.

That list is a kafkian feast of absurdity, coupled with the undercurrent of malevolent greed!



Really?! So the mother is supposed to tackle her daughter rather than talk to her?

Those CPS workers, who come up with the "reasons" on that list should be kept far away from children, preferably locked away in an asylum.

Have all Russians Citizens been brought back to the Motherland?

Arkansas Takes Away 7 Homeschool Children  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=931376.0

I saw your post and was about to link it back to here.

Wanted to reference one point from Marianne's list in this regard of CPS' aversion to home-schooling:

  
While the Bitcoin Forum has been down, two posts of mine have apparently been removed? There might be some technical reason they got lost, to do with the forum being down, but if not, it was perhaps done by Nemo1024 because they were unwanted? That of course is for him to judge. I am posting the first one again and so if he removes it again, I will understand the message (albeit not the reason for it!).

**

From 21 January 2015  at 11:35:51 pm:



Regarding the current Czech case (Eva Michaláková's):

A new statement from the Norwegian embassy in Prague yesterday – the contents being of the usual kind which we know well from Norwegian authorities:

Child welfare in Norway and the Michalak boys (http://www.noramb.cz/Norsk/ambassaden/Pressemeldinger/Child-welfare-in-Norway-and-the-Michalak-boys/#.VL_n81oRFTO)
The Norwegian Embassy in the Czech Republic, 20 January 2015

The embassy, on behalf of Norwegian authorities, claim that all sorts of things said by Eva Michaláková and by Czech media are untrue, and so on. Also, they claim that the boys are "progressing well" in their foster homes. "Progressing" sounds like an insinuation that they were not doing well before they were taken from their parents, and that the CPS and the foster homes are having to work to compensate for that.
 
But anyway, that is what they say about foster children generally: that things are going so well with them and they were so miserable and so damaged when they were with their parents. Of course all sorts of 'child experts' back this up. This kind of 'information' is not matched by statistics relating to the number of children who try to escape from foster homes, nor those of the end results of foster care, which are appalling: a very high percentage have a miserable life, comprising crime, illness, early death, no education, unemployment, not to speak of tragedies of personal life (cf the points marked • in the section "Protection of the child / Child protection" here: Political program for child protection in local administration (http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page124/page124.html)).

  

^ don't think Nemo1024 has any power to remove posts. Only mods can do that. And usually only if they are spam, and others report it. If both posts were made after 21:44 on 21 Jan, they were lost when the forum went down: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=932315.0

  
Right - then I'll try reposting the other one, with two small additions.


From 21 January 2015, at about 11:50 pm:


Another case today: A Lithuanian girl of 9 has (probably) been fetched by her mother and they are on the run. Hopefully back to Lithuania. They are being hunted by Norwegian police, all the border personnel are on the look-out for them, the Norwegian Crime Force are "assisting" and Interpol has been alerted. They are now "wanted internationally" and the police want everybody to be on the look-out and tip the police off if they see the fugitives.

I have made the start of a thread here (hope there will be articles in English about the case on the web by and by, so that I don't have to translate and write so much):
Lithuania / Norway: Girl taken out from foster care by mother (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7767)


If mother and daughter are caught, the child will be taken back to the foster home (no matter what she wants or says) – or to another foster home at a secret address – and the mother faces a criminal court case and imprisonment. Plenty of cases here, in the section "Temaer" (themes / topics) at BarnasRett (http://www.barnasrett.no) (The children's Right):
Barn og familier på flukt fra barnevernet (http://www.barnasrett.no/tema/flukt.htm) (Children and families fleeing from the child protection services)
Barn og foreldre som blir straffet for opprør mot barnevernet (http://barnasrett.no/tema/straff_for_oppror_mot_barnevernet.htm) (Children and parents who are punished for revolt against the child protection services)

Unfortunately these articles are all articles in Norwegian. Still, the files give an idea of the profusion of articles and I also post the links for the benefit of readers who can read Scandinavian.

*

Jan Simonsen has been interviewed again by Czech television. He says that the Czech member of the European Parliament Tomáš Zdechovský has been very active getting an overview of very many cases relating to several countries whose children have been confiscated by the Scandinavian ones. He will bring the whole issue to the European Parliament, I think. We shall know more about it in not too many days.

I hope all these countries: The Czech Republic, Russia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, Turkey, India - - what have you, will get together in a strong, concerted action against this child 'protection' which is completely off the rails. And they must get Estonia included, because Norwegian child protection is busy there teaching the Estonians how do provide 'welfare and protection' for children!

Nemo, to you think Pavel Astakhov is kept informed about all that is going on? He seemed enough of a maverick not to let any soft soap from Norwegian assurances talk him down. And he speaks Swedish, or so the info says (KGB-educated!).

  

A little movement in the Czech case, and I know for a fact that they are working on it in Prague:

Norwegian MPs may discuss Michalák case (http://praguepost.com/czech-news/43965-norwegian-mps-may-discuss-michalak-case)
Prague Post, 23 January 2015

Czech MEP Tomáš Zdechovský has been pushing for Norway to take action
…… He said Per Sandberg, deputy chairman of the Progress Party, wants to ask the Norwegian Foreign Minister about the case at a meeting of the foreign committee of Norwegian Parliament.
 “This will be for the first that something like this will happen in Norway in relation to a case involving the Czech Republic,” Zdechovský said.

  

its funny how we have this constitution but it doesn't work unless you live to be a certain age.

The constitution is what is known as common law. What I described is maritime UCC contract law. People in the US (and many other nations) have been tricked into accepting maritime law as if it were common law. Both still exist, they are just 2 completely different jurisdictions. If you want your constitutional rights, you have to extract them with knowledge of the law. It can still be done, but it is not easy (it never was).

First of all, Marianne, I would not have removed any posts even if I could (this is not a self-moderated topic). I welcome the fact that the discussion and revelation expanded from the original topic.


The short article above is so poignant, that I decided to do a quick translation of it:



I think he is well-informed, but Russia is trying to play by the rules, and does so quietly through the diplomatic channels, so as not to put a child into more danger from the Norwegian CPS. The impression I got from the interviews on Russian media, is that Russian authorities are treating such cases with the same care, as the one shown when negotiating with terrorists in armed hostage-taking situations.

It is interesting that you asked about it now. There were no updates about the case of little Oscar since mid-November, and until now. Here is what appeared on the official pages of The Commissioner for the Presidential Council for Children's Rights:
http://www.rfdeti.ru/news/9388-roditeli-rebenka-izyatogo-iz-rossiyskoy-semi-v-norvegii-proydut-specialnye-kursy

And here is my translation from Russian:


From the quote above: "trying to establish a dialogue with the social services". This is one of the emphasised positive qualities!

So, Russia is playing along by the Norwegian rules (it really has no choice - angering the CPS beast may put the child into an even greater peril), the family is still torn, the boy hasn't seen his little sister, who got evacuated to her grandparents, but there is hope...

  
I recently rediscovered an article by Christopher Booker from last year, one which I had myself linked to in a small article but had in my inefficiency completely forgotten. I ought to have done more than link to it, because it is very important, so here it is for consumption by us. (It starts off with an illustration of how Russian-Latvian children in the Netherlands were taken - for not speaking Dutch at home! So that adds "nicely" to what you just reported about Oscar, Nemo.)
Here is Booker:

MEPs must investigate this child-snatching scandal (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/10715806/MEPs-must-investigate-this-child-snatching-scandal.html)
The Telegraph, 22 March 2014

So the EU Commission is hidebound and "uppety" but MEPs – members of the European Parliament – are getting active. Add to this the fact that the social services particularly in Britain are going crazy these last years, they are having a regular feast "redistributing" children, so that the European Court of Human Rights is getting a lot of complaints especially from British parents. The Czech member of the European Parliament Tomáš Zdechovský should therefore find a number of allies in his efforts to have Britain and Scandinavia condemned for their practices (the latest I heard was that he would especially take up the actions of those countries).

  

In Norway SWC is big business for several instances, and huige proffit is involved when a child is taken into custody: Foster parents, private and public institutes that hold the child for assessment, advocates, doctors, psychologists, therapeuts, medical companies.

  
Back for a moment to what is going on in Norway just now:

The Lithuanian girl has not been "found" by the authorities by this morning (27 January):
Posting in the Lithuanina / Norway thread (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=35135#p35135)

At the same time, a 7 year old Lithuanian boy is "missing" from Molde. He disappeared from a bowling hall yesterday. Several police patrols are searching, and they have drafted in all sorts of other people, but so far they have not succeeded in getting hold of him:
Lithuanian boy? – unclear news reports (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7771)

My title for that thread is no longer quite apt, since the reports are becoming fairly clear. The Norwegian press's way of presenting it is less so, of course, but it does not take a genius to make a reasonable guess.

  

  

Hoi!   Mother and daughter made it home to Lithuania!

- Mor og datter befinner seg i Litauen (http://www.adressa.no/nyheter/nordtrondelag/article10579603.ece) (Mother and daughter are in Lithuania)
Adresseavisen, 26 January 2015

"Mannen som varslet politiet er ikke jentas biologiske far. Han har sagt til politiet at moren ikke klarte å leve uten datteren sin. Begge skal ifølge mannen ha det bra." (The man who informed the police is not the girl's biological father. He has said to the police that the mother was not able to live without her daughter. Both are, according to the man, fine.")

!!
  

(I could do with a full time secretary to find articles more quickly.)
  
  

It will not go away.
a) Czech public can accept that a state takes away children. It is also sometimes done. But if it is done, the children should go to the other family member and it is not acceptable to limit mother's access to the children for one hour/year and to prohibited the access of others members of the family to the children. Also siblings are kept together.  What is totally unacceptable is the Czech language prohibition and forced adoption, which was allegedly intended. The mother stated that the children will not be given Czech passport as requested by CPS. I think that without a paperwork they cannot be easily adopted. There was a group of people, which used to give Czech children for adoption to Germany, to be assimilated. The people were called Nazis.  So there is a quite an outrage that Czech citizens are prohibited to communicate in Czech.

b) The ambassador did no help.
http://zpravy.idnes.cz/rozhovor-velvyslankyne-norsko-dne-/domaci.aspx?c=A150122_122807_domaci_aba

A: There were reasons.
B: What reasons?
A: I do not have any documents. Only the mother and the CPS have documents.
B: Have somebody from the CPS said you why it was done?
A: We are not in contact with the CPS.
B: Have you called the CPS?
A: No.
B: How you know that everything is OK?
A: I know how the system works.

There should be some protest in Prague and during biathlon competition.
http://tn.nova.cz/clanek/zpravy/domaci/vyzva-na-webu-rekneme-norum-na-biatlonu-at-vrati-nase-deti.html

c) It was discovered that the two "independent" psychologist were not independent, they are living together.

d) It is not the only case. They are four another cases.

e) Tomáš Zdechovský, Petr Mach a Jitka  Chalánková were in Norway.
http://www.chalankova.cz/
According Tomáš Zdechovský - police was polite and correct, CPS not. He asked why were children separated. No answer. What the mother must do to get them back? No answer.

f) Tomáš Zdechovský is s renaissance person (a journalist, a poet...) and  a member of a small conservative christian (=catholic) party, which promotes family values.

g) There is a petition with more then 10 000 signatures asking the government to do something about it.
http://zpravy.idnes.cz/petice-deti-norsko-urad-vlady-d21-/domaci.aspx?c=A141210_113514_domaci_hv

http://pravyprostor.cz/kde-je-moje-dite-otevreny-dopis-velvyslanci-norska-v-ceske-republice/
An another peace of  information. The CPS used as an interpret from Czech a Polish interpret.

A petition
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/Government_of_Norway_Return_Children_to_Their_Mother/

  

I am very glad to hear that Naine thinks the issue will not die down in Czechia. The only way to achieve a change is for people to react strongly over every case, and not forget it, not shrug their shoulders, not to accept all the babble which official Norway comes up with.

*


Very revealing. So this, then, is the Norwegian ambassador in Prague, Mrs Siri Ellen Sletner. First she says that there were reasons why the children had to be taken. Then she says that she has no documents about the case and is not in contact with the CPS. Then how does she know? The answer is the typical one: She "knows" how the system works. That is the way the Norwegian state always answers: The CPS "never takes children unless there are compelling reasons why it has to be done". – This is the blind propaganda we are always up against.
Předpokládám, že museli mít důvod děti vzít, říká norská velvyslankyně (http://zpravy.idnes.cz/rozhovor-velvyslankyne-norsko-dne-/domaci.aspx?c=A150122_122807_domaci_aba)

Here are some more Norwegian amabassadors praising our CPS:
Norwegian embassies abroad and Norwegian child protection (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7753)
(Note how the group of Hindus in America exposed the one there.)

*

This article shows the text on the transparencies they used at the sports-competition - bravo!
Jak na protest v Novém Městě na Moravě (http://andrejruscak.blog.idnes.cz/c/444882/Jak-na-protest-v-Novem-Meste-na-Morave.html)

The transparency texts are in Czech and Norwegian, so I can provide an English translation of the Norwegian:

"Norge bryter FN barnekonvensjon" – Norway violates the UN Convention of the Rights of the Child
"Norge bryter menneskerettigheter" – Norway violates human rights
"Norge, gi oss tilbake barna våre" – Norway, give us back our children
"Bryt ikke art. 8 EMK" – Do not violate Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights
"Norge er hjerteløs" – Norway is heartless
"Norge oppfører seg som et diktatur" – Norway behaves like/as a dictatorship
"Norge – siste kommuniststat?" – Norway - the last communist state?*
"Dårlig samvittighet? Det bør Norge ha." – Bad conscience? That is what Norway should have.
"Husker du tatere? Det samme skjer på nytt." Do you remember the "Taters"? The same is happening again.**
"Reputasjonen deres er ødelagt. Hjelp med gjenoppbygging!" Your reputation is ruined. Help rebuilding it!

* But look out for Sweden, it is even worse when it comes to CPS.
** The Taters are a gipsy-like, nomadic/semi-nomadic, ethnic group in the Nordic countries. They have been treated atrociously, shut up, forcibly sterilised, lobotomised, and their children have been taken from them.






  

Mrs Siri Ellen Sletner
an official statement in English
http://www.ceskatelevize.cz/ct24/nejnovejsi-videa/298934-marksova-k-norskym-detem-cast-spisu-je-v-souladu-s-prohlasenim-norske-ambasady/

I am very glad to hear that Naine thinks the issue will not die down in Czechia. The only way to achieve a change is for people to react strongly over every case, and not forget it, not shrug their shoulders, not to accept all the babble which official Norway comes up with.

It is not going away.
The Norway prime minister said: Get lost, I will do nothing.
http://www.tyden.cz/rubriky/domaci/norska-premierka-do-kauz-deti-zasahovat-nebudeme_331685.html#.VMth3aNwYwc

The government does not do very much, but the opposition see possibilities how to collect some points.

Jitka Chalánková was in Norway and she is not impressed.
http://www.parlamentnilisty.cz/politika/politici-volicum/Chalankova-TOP-09-Zmena-zakona-je-nutna-337857
She sais that Norway is in the breach of human rights
http://www.parlamentnilisty.cz/politika/politici-volicum/Chalankova-TOP-09-Pokud-selze-diplomacie-pozadam-snemovnu-o-zalobu-na-Norsko-355203

Petr Mach thinks that it is a business
http://www.parlamentnilisty.cz/politika/politici-volicum/Mach-Svobodni-Norsky-system-odebirani-deti-je-vynosny-kseft-359453

Tomáš Zdechovský is not pleased. It seems to him very strange that a mass murderer can see his mother every month and two small Czech children cannot.
http://www.parlamentnilisty.cz/politika/politici-volicum/Zdechovsky-KDU-CSL-Dukazy-ukazuji-ze-v-Norsku-dochazi-k-systemove-chybe-359445
He was in Norway, according him Norway police was polite and correct, CPS - spite and malice.
Why you have separated the children? Hmmm...what?
What the mother must to do, to get them back? Hmm...
http://www.reflex.cz/clanek/komentare/61750/dokonaly-hyenismus-pokracuje-norove-o-odebranych-detech-mlzi-a-vysmivaji-se-nam.html
http://echo24.cz/a/wMDbY/pravnik-matky-ceskych-deti-v-norsku-jsme-slyseli-absurdity

The grand father was in Norway, he was not able to see his grandchildren...we do not have anybody who could translate...they had 6 month to find somebody
http://www.tyden.cz/rubriky/domaci/prijel-navstivit-vnuky-do-norska-urad-mu-to-zakazal_302803.html#.VMthc6NwYwc
http://pravyprostor.cz/kde-je-moje-dite-otevreny-dopis-velvyslanci-norska-v-ceske-republice/
http://sonasvobodova.blog.idnes.cz/c/434665/Norsko-ceska-media-lzou-Umluvu-neporusujeme.html

Aunt of children went to court at Hodoním, she wants them into care.
http://www.novinky.cz/domaci/359993-uz-jsme-jim-koupili-i-postele-rika-teta-dvou-chlapcu-odebranych-v-norsku.html
Moreover local police was asked by the grandfather to look at fact, how it is possible that the children are kept in Norway.
http://brno.idnes.cz/kauza-ceske-deti-v-norsku-u-policie-a-soudu-v-hodonine-pd0-/brno-zpravy.aspx?c=A150127_135926_brno-zpravy_daj

Documents
http://www.lidovky.cz/trestni-oznameni-proti-matce-odebranych-deti-bylo-pozastaveno-pvn-/zpravy-domov.aspx?c=A150121_181850_ln_domov_ele


The advertisement of CPS was also criticised
http://www.krajskelisty.cz/praha/obvod-praha-1/7400-socialka-ktera-ma-maslo-na-hlave-inzeruje-hledate-zabavu-a-vzruseni-pracujte-u-nas-z-toho-se-vam-zvedne-zaludek.htm

And from what I could gather from the articles, Norwegian CPS either separated the brother or plans to do so, while, as per standard forced integration practice, denies them lessons in Czech language, forcing them to forget their mother tongue.

The boys were separated and the mother is prohibited to speak with them in Czech. The language question is dynamite.

Nazzis had Lebensborn program initially set up in Germany in 1935, the program expanded into several occupied European countries with Germanic populations during the Second World War. It included the selection of "racially worthy" orphans including some children from Lidice
http://frr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidice

There is a novel about a child in this program, how she fells lonely, "mother" does no love her...eventually she returns home, but she has problems with integration
http://www.amazon.com/They-Called-Lein-Zdenka-Bezdekova/dp/B000NPJF9E/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1422640532&sr=1-2
It used to be an obligatory reading, so the language question is hypersensitive.


Táňa Fischerová CT: Czech Helsinki Committee turns to the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child, to assess whether Norway during the removal of children and the implementation of foster care does not violate the Convention on the Rights of the Child.
Czech Helsinki Committee wishes to make a complaint to the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child on Norway for violation of the Convention on the Rights of the Child in the removal of children from Czech, Russian and Polish families. The child’s opinion is not taken into account in the proceedings, children should be with their mother regularly see and communicate, are targeted bond between siblings. According to the testimony of Russian children returned to them in foster families is not well treated, suffering from emotional stress.
http://www.helcom.cz/cs/en/tana-fischerova-v-ct-cesky-helsinsky-vybor-se-obrati-na-vybor-osn-pro-prava-ditete-aby-posoudil-zda-norsko-pri-odebirani-deti-a-pri-realizaci-nahradni-rodinne-pece-neporusuje-umluvu-o-pravech-ditet/
http://denikreferendum.cz/clanek/19633-evropa-hodnot

News from Lithuania
http://ru.delfi.lt/news/live/shveciya-vernula-pohischennogo-litovkoj-malchika-v-norvegiyu.d?id=67058938

  

Hoho, seems interesting - now who can summarise / translate this Russian for us? (Guess who I am thinking of. Or are you Russian-proficient yourself, Naine?)


  

This is bad. Here's a quick translation:


And another article from today, about the Lithuanian petition:
http://ru.delfi.lt/news/live/zhivuschie-za-rubezhom-litovcy-trebuyut-vernut-peredannogo-norvegii-rebenka.d?id=67062704

The topic mentions that even tourist could face problems. What do they do with the citizenship of the child ?
Do they give automatic citinzenship of Norway after an incident like this ?

doubt its like that, there would instantly be people trying to abuse this fact.
but that law they have is so brutal, i think ppl think twice before even having kids.. or is the law more opened to interpretation.

That is an interesting question. The children of the guest workers, abducted by the state, retain their original citizenship. Moreover, their permit to stay in Norway is, in theory, tied to the permit of their parents. They cannot be deprived of their original citizenship - only the home-country can release them of it. I guess they are given some kind of "refugee" visa by Norway. In any case, the way CPS acts, it seems to be above the law.

  
I have updated the thread on Forum RVB about the 7-year-old Lithuanian boy, to a great extent on the basis of Naine's posting on 2 Feb at 09:46:32 am and Nemo's translation of 2 Feb at 02:33:52 pm.

http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=35143#p35143
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=35149#p35149
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=35159#p35159

I am not at all satisfied with my last two postings there, they should have been shorter and more concise, but I lack the energy to be less longwinded!

That case by now gives a lot of clear information which I, with a deep sigh, hope the needy will trouble to read. I wish foreigners bringing children here to Norway would take it seriously. I could wish for my own countrymen to take it seriously also, but there is less hope of that.

Well, at least to foreigners in Norway:

Never talk with the CPS. Insist that everything has to be in writing.
At the first indication that they want a psychologist to talk with you or they want to visit your home or talk with your children:
Get out of the country!
Make do with whatever income you can make in your own country, or some other non-Western country.
It may be hard, but having the bonds to your children violated is harder.
Do not wait: Pack 3 plastic bags with only the basic necessities for the children. If you are seen about with ordinary luggage, the CPS will stop you and take the children on an emergency decision.
When the children have been placed in a safe country, you may return to pack up properly, or even better: get friends to do that.
Do not tell people that you will be going, there are many who may report you to the CPS.
Do not book airline tickets or boat tickets, nor should you go in your own car to Sweden. Go preferably by anonymous bus. Get yourselves to Oslo, for example, there are several buses running every hour from the bus terminal in Oslo.

Very important:
1) You must go before a case over transfer of care has been opened in the County Committee, and if you are after all caught in one, then certainly before such a case has been completed. After such a case, your child belongs to the Norwegian state.
2) Get a "moving" form (flyttemelding) from the National Census register (Folkeregisteret), which is managed by the taxation office, or better: get it from the internet, fill it in properly, and post it registered mail as soon as possible after you leave, so that it is officially registered that your children (and preferably yourself) have moved out of Norway. In that way the authorities cannot claim that you are just away on a holiday, in which case they could go ahead with a CPS case without you being there.
3) Do not be too optimistic - do not come back. The local CPS will not have forgotten you, and CPS offices all over the country are equally terrible - there might be a few odd exceptions in a few odd places for a while, but they are exceptions, and they will not be able to stand up against a report against you from another source.
  

there is some info about Czech protests
https://www.facebook.com/BarnevernetStealsChildren

video
English subtitles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVvLZwy5OmE&feature=youtu.be
some subtitles
http://www.ceskatelevize.cz/ct24/nejnovejsi-videa/296115-ct-vyrazila-po-stopach-ceskych-deti-odebranych-v-norsku/

Lithuania
http://en.delfi.lt/global-lt/norways-ambassador-ulland-child-welfare-is-top-consideration-for-norwegian-institutions-regardless-of-citizenship.d?id=65467404
protest
http://www.delfi.lt/news/daily/lithuania/prie-norvegijos-ambasados-piketavo-pasipiktine-lietuviai.d?id=67071834


it seems one happy end
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Somaja-8-og-Rajana-6-bortfort-pa-vei-fra-skolen-7598891.html

Protest against CPS

Tomorrow Dublin at 14.00
https://cs-cz.facebook.com/events/421950224648399/

Tomorrow London
https://cs-cz.facebook.com/events/1410648342562958/

The Czech republic - this weekend
http://jihlava.idnes.cz/transparenty-proti-barnevernet-pri-biatlonu-v-novem-meste-na-morave-1jd-/jihlava-zpravy.aspx?c=A150204_2136816_jihlava-zpravy_mv

2000 leaflets in Czech, English, Russians and Norwegian  were printed. The aim is also to inform Russians if they have problems they should to contact the group.
The message is : "Were you kidnapped by Barnverent? Do you want back do mommy. We will help you."

  

We know more about this story. I can't guarantee to remember correctly every detail, but it is possible to locate it in various articles.

Both parents are originally from Chechniya. The father and mother were divorced, both living in Norway. The father ran a business here. The father was/is married again, this time too to a Chechen woman, I think. They had two younger children.

The CPS took the two older children, two girls, and placed them in a foster home. When the CPS started their actions, the father's new wife and their children very wisely went back to Chechniya. The CPS were very angry about this, they had of course planned to take those children also. The father, with some help, got hold of the two older children and succeeded in bringing them to Russia / Chechniya, and he went there himself. The CPS tried to get the girls' mother to make trouble and demand they be taken back to Norway since she was here. A warrant was out for the father.

The father a little later made a statement that he would come back to Norway with the daughters if the CPS would give him a solemn promise never to do this - meaning take them away - again.

This is as naïve and stubborn as can be - he should have informed himself of realities and known better: The CPS can never make such a promise, by legislation they have no right to promise never to take a child. On the contrary, they are obliged by law to take a child if they 'suspect' or know that the child is in the need of …… (you know all the nice-sounding words - - -). And if the CPS in this case had said, in a sort of half-baked promise, that at the moment there was no occasion to take the girls again, that would not be binding, and at the same time there would be an uproar in CPS circles and the ministry and all sorts of places, because: how could a CPS office say that girls who were in their care and who were 'abducted' by their father (who had already been found to be unsuited/dangerous), were suddenly not in need of CPS care? That would be to admit that there was no need for the CPS at all.

In other words, the father spoke as if he believed that the local CPS office had done something a bit silly, which they would be suitably ashamed of, like naughty children, when he 'corrected' them.

Well, anyway, the CPS said nothing of the sort. The father meanwhile had financial trouble because he was not in Norway taking care of his business together with his business partner. So one day he returned to Norway in order to work, thinking that he could do it undisturbed. The girls were left in Chechniya, together with their younger siblings and their step-mother, I think.

And of course the father was arrested and put in jail pending trial as soon as he arrived.
I haven't gone after the story after that, so I don't know if there actually was a court case and, if so, what the outcome was. One gets quite exhausted at all these people (there have actually been many) who manage to save their children and then they think that they can come back after a while and nothing will happen? As if they have just had an innocent disagreement with the CPS, and the CPS would have simmered down now and realised that they had been overly dramatic and now they would be sensible and listen to the parents and let themselves be guided by the parents.

I admit I lost interest in the Chechen father. Many of these families even bring their children back with them. They think they can start afresh, after some months or a couple of years. Hah! I remember a parent or two who used to ring me up and sort of complain when I wouldn't tell them that of course they could come back now because it had all been just like a quarrel between two children, who made up and became friends again after a little while. These parents would get angry with me when I said "No, you must stay away, and you children must never set foot here until they are of age" (18 years old and their own masters). And preferably not even return then, because the CPS will be after them to take their own children if they have children in Norway, just to prove that they had bad parents so now they have become bad parents themselves. (Very primitive determinism, in other words.)

Most CPS victims who contact me and people like me, do not really want to hear the grim truth. They want me to say something they hope will be true.

But you were right, I think, Naine: it was a happy ending for the two girls, I think. Better to be in difficult Chechniya with relatives than in Norway with people obviously making money out of working as fosterers for the CPS, cut off from their own family altogether.

  

Marianne, just a note: Checheniya is Russia, it's a federative subject within RF (and it's one of the financially better off regions of Russia).
This case was thus also within Astahov's jurisdiction from the Russian side.

---

This list should be handed out to all hopeful visa applicants to Norway, who plan to take children with them!
By the way, it would make a nice leaflet material for the Czech demonstration.

---

An interesting comprehensive site from US:
http://medicalkidnap.com/news/page/2/

http://www.ceskenoviny.cz/tema/zpravy/zemanovi-se-nelibi-postup-norskych-uradu-v-pripade-ceskych-deti/1177922&id_seznam=35
The Czech president is not pleased.
The president of the republic expressed his dissatisfaction with the actions of Norway services, which are keeping all documents relevant for the assessment of the whole issue secrete and asked the ambassador of the Norwegian Kingdom to keep him up to inform about the whole issue.

  

Yes, I know, I wasn't trying to turn it into some political question when I wrote "Russia / Chechniya", quite the contrary. I think I might perhaps have written in the same way about Kamchatka, for that matter. Rather, I feel that regardless of what we think of all sorts of in themselves important questions in life, regarding child protection the central point is: Children need to be with THEIR OWN parents or other close relatives if AT ALL possible, in all kinds of societies.

Do not misunderstand me, folks: It is NOT possible if the parents ill-treat or abuse the child and cannot be trusted to stop.

In this case I agree that Astahov's hand is important and can only be positive.

*


All the better if so, but not even that is the most decisive thing. – I remember a case about 20 years ago, it was something like this:

Some Cubans, a mother with a small son, got into a boat and headed for Miami, as refugees . The boat capsized and the boy was the only survivor. He was rescued by the American coast-guard and brought to some distant relatives of his in Miami. His father and mother had been divorced. The father had not objected to his son going with the mother, but now he of course wanted his son to return to himself. There was a lot of hullabaloo in Florida, which has a large community of Cubans hostile to communist Cuba, saying the boy must not be "victimised" by Cuba and "forced" to go back; the boy's relatives claimed to love him so very deeply (after having known him for a few weeks or even just a few days) that they could not do without him. Quite materialistic arguments (actually quite like a communistic way of thinking, Nemo?) about life and politics being so much better in the USA were very prominent - so many people shouting at the top of their lungs about how terrible it would be if the boy was going to go back to Cuba, that his father in Cuba was very poor, and his mother having wanted him to go to the USA, and Cuba being the big bad Satan.
    Cuba was not too fond of people escaping to the USA but they allowed the father to go peacefully and try to get his son back (the father was not an oppositional and it was positive advertisement for Cuba). The American social authorities kept him there for some little time, I think with the usual mumbo-jumbo which we know so well: they had to see whether the boy "could get used to him" etc. It ended with father and son going back to Cuba. – Which I think must have been the best thing. Even if the boy had not been living with his father before but with his mother, neither the political conditions nor a modest economic standard (as long as neither was an absolute, life-threatening disaster) should trump the principle of the boy being with his own parent.

The importance of the parent-child bond is what social services are taught to disrespect and forget, and so that is what we have to work to have reinstated.
    

Anarchists in particular like to debate about things instead of avoid a topic :P This is pretty normal we talk about all sorts of stuff :D

Marianne, sorry if my previous comment came out harsher than it should have. This is a carry-over from the other, politically charged threads, where I am trying to be as pedantic as possible, when it comes to definitions, as I am often on the defensive with regard to topics that concern Russia.

Back to the topic at hand, where I am in full agreement with you: solution to this problem must transcend nationalities, politics and country boundaries.

I have also seen may news stories of Russian children being taken away from parents for no apparent reason.
This has been going-on for many years now. I believe it to be politically motivated as well as financially motivated.
These private services are paid very well by the government for taking and housing these children away from the parents.
Stay away from Norway and Finland if you have children!

  

No no, I wasn't offended and I didn't interpret it as harsh at all. Besides, even if I had I wouldn't exactly have shrivelled; criticising the CPS (child protection services) as I have done for many years, I expect – and frequently get – real "comments" about my "irrelevancy".

Actually, the political aspects of the CPS questions are interesting but somewhat unusual, and dyalldough is right:


It is just that the politics of it does not boil down to quite the usual alternatives. Certainly, some CPS ideology is in accord with socialistic thinking, and probably a very large majority of social workers here in Norway vote for socialistic parties. But the conservative and more or less liberal (in the European sense of the word) parties in our parliament are just as strong supporters of the CPS, and the sections of the population voting for them are the same, they just dress up their attitudes differently. All of them are completely superficial and avoid looking into what is actually going on. Conservatives believe that the CPS "fixes" criminal youngsters and parents, the Christian People's Party believe that parents attacked by the CPS are inevitably "bad" parents, the party Venstre ("Left", who call themselves social-liberal) have top politicians whose families are heavily into foster home activities, country communities with sympathy for the Centre Party (previously called Farmers' Party) do considerable business in taking foster children.

The only people in politics who take / have taken a principled stand against this destruction of families have been single individuals, usually in tiny, peripheral parties.

 
Yes, that is quite right, but it is not the basic reason, just a "business opportunity" which these people see once it is there. So it is a money machine but it doesn't matter that some of it is private enterprise. The state-run foster places and other things established in connection with it are just as bad and the ideology is the same.


Absolutely right! You have to add some other countries as well, though. Here are some links to articles (don't worry, they are in English) about Slovaks running into British child 'protection':
Protester i Storbritannia, og Slovakia har suksess (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=32744#p32744) (Protests in Britain, and Slovakia is successful)
And this site about the USA, which was posted in this thread recently, is illuminating:
Medical Kidnap (http://medicalkidnap.com)

This whole way of "protecting" children is a plague. The Western countries are hard hit, probably because they are "educating" too many social workers and psychologists, but it is spreading, through ideology about what constitutes a good society and a good life.

 

  

No, don't believe that... I defy any C.P.S. worldwide including those of the homefront to take the child of a single member of the USMIIC... it's possible they do, until the chain of command is aware. then.

on your second remark you have to accept that non humans are aiming to take control of the world. they have very extensive sexual needs. To destroy the family and the values behind it, are key objectives of theirs. It's a war, even if stealth.

they just try to force the Children of God to accept their domination. it will be avenged, here or thereafter, mercilessly.
It's called the Path. they can't do anything against it, it would be like trying to stop a spinning galaxy.

  
I think enryk feels "saturated":


I plead guilty! I have a number of bad character qualities and one of them is that I write way too long tirades, and mine are of course among the longest here. But it's too late in my life now to change noticeably. So please forgive! After all, one of the advantages of the internet is that what we write does not disappear with yesterday's newspaper – people who need info can search and find it long after. Those of us who try to collect and spread information about CPS madness see it as if we are a tiny wolf-pack laying down a trail, available for others to follow if they want. There are many who are struck down by the CPS all the time and who want allies and information.

Regards from Marianne
  

Dear Marianne,

I think this one will make enryk goes into selfcombustion :). Understand that those criminals saluting before death are smart enough to have been able to commit atrocious crimes, that require expertise. Understand that if they could manage to do such harm, impunitly for so long, they are smart enough to understand like Kerry that the younger their victims are the lower their risk of contracting any diseases. It's a war. let's kill them, where ever they hide, however they cloak. It's just part of the training to dismantle the "suitcases" rings. It will be hardcore. Gitmo is soft in comparison. Do what they got a do. Or said in the Wild West the Sheriffs are in town the party is over mof. And the sharks said: frenzy on, nothing that a good old blood bath can't solve... And if you want to call it more politically corrected: Risk management, it's good with me. Or if you prefer, Algos don't rape. They are not beasts, even trough their inherent efficiency appearing ruthless absolutely not fully understandable for any human collective or individual not used to play with them. The question isn't if heads must roll but how far will they go... (so no basket to catch, so it can be betted). And who doesn't like fiat $ being blown on hunting down sexual criminals... "Keynesianism" at work! In 3 words: no pity, no mercy, to death.

ex101: they better start, now, to make their prayers.

No one here is arguing except for you. The rest of us are having a discussion. Perhaps you should contribute in stead of trying to dismantle it by attempting to cast it as an argument and sew discord.

That is correct. Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, East Germany, dictators love to own the little ones to indoctrinate and train them.

Abuse by parents does exist but the scale of magnitude is much smaller.

In other words, the suffering inflicted by organized governments is much, much worse than that inflicted by bad parenting.

Naturally if kids die because their parents abuse them, this is inflated to grotesque proportions in the media, in order to promote more dictatorial steps.

IMHO mandatory school/kindergarten and whatnot, is just as dangerous to liberty as gun control (and just as much used by dictators).  :(

The problem here is that the law focuses on the right of the child and the parents?
But they are really one in the same.

I think one of the reasons is really certain ideology.
Namely - Polish, Slovak ....families are patriarchal, authoritarian and the parents smack children (true on all counts), so we must to save the nice children from their parents.

According the Czech radio:
The Czech Republic will continue to put diplomatic pressure on Norway in connection with the case of two Czech brothers who were taken into care in the country, Prime Minister Bohuslav Sobotka told their mother Eva Michaláková in a meeting on Tuesday. A children’s welfare official from Brno is due to visit Norway in the coming days to discuss extending the mother’s visiting rights and to ensure the boys receive Czech lessons. He will also relay a Czech pledge to monitor the boys’ welfare if they are returned to the Czech Republic.

  
A prominent article in the Norwegian newspaper VG (one of the largest) yesterday:

Tsjekkias president sammenligner norsk barnevern med nazi-program (http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/tsjekkias-president-sammenligner-norsk-barnevern-med-nazi-program/a/23391791/) (The president of the Czech Republic compares Norwegian child protection with Nazi program)
VG, 9 February 2015

So VG has at long last woken up a little bit. Jan Simonsen has given them information long ago, but as usual the journalists have ignored, with a yawn probably, information about tragic and dramatic child protection cases. (The Norwegian press corps is chock-a-block full of political correctness, and political correctness says that info and protests against the CPS should be ignored.)

There is a short notice about this article on text-tv on NRK (the national tv company) also.

Simonsen has written about it on his own blog also:
Knallhard kritikk av norsk barnevern fra Tsjekkias president (http://www.frie-ytringer.com/2015/02/10/knallhard-kritikk-av-norsk-barnevern-fra-tsjekkias-president/) (Rock hard criticism of Norwegian child protection from the president of the Czech Republic)


The president has been interviewed by the Czech media house Blesk. He says the foster places where the boys have been put resemble the Lebernsborn program. The boys are being de-nationalised (away from Czech) and being raised to become young Norwegians.


Of course the article is also full of babbleibabb from Norwegian officials. (Never an article without wide scope given to our authorities.) We have heard it all before. It doesn't become right just because they repeat how wonderfully Norway takes care of all children, regardless of nationality.

*

Journlist in Blesk Ladislav Leimer says something even more interesting:
"Der er nok av lignende saker i Europa, det er alltid det samme: Barnevernet tar barn fra utenlandske foreldre, uten noe bevis, for å gi dem til fosterfamilier." (There are plenty of similar cases in Europe, it is always the same: The child protection takes children from foreign families, without any proof, to give them to foster families.)

The very positive thing here is that Leimer is aware that child protection units in many countries operate like the Norwegian agency does. He is mistaken if he thinks the majority of families attacked are foreigners, though. But it is true in Norway - and quite possibly in other countries – that foreign families are over-represented. They are even easier to attack than natives.
  

I have seen it, but I would correct the information. It was only reprinted in Blesk ( Blesk is not a serious newspaper).

It is exactly what I said. This is not going away. Czechs are not Russians.

a) It is true that the Russian family is different. Russia is eastwards from the Hajnal line and the Russian family was form by slash and burn agriculture. You can see it very easily if you open Russians fairly tales. A father and a mother and tree sons, all of them with wives living under one roof. You will not find this in Grimm's fairy tales.  Czech families were often forced to adopt Russian model under the communist, but the Czech family is an European family, that is, it is a product of a manorial system of land ownership. It is a nuclear and neolocal family, and Czechs returned after the fall of the communism  to this model very swiftly. But there is difference between the Scandinavia, the Netherlands and Great Britain. A child is not required to leaf the family at age of 18. Very often the parents support their child. If it is a middle class family, which has a space, the child can live with parents and paid some symbolic sum for the upkeep of the home on the condition that he/she put some money aside for the own flat. The property ladder is not known and the family and friend are seen as very important.
http://girlinczechland.com/2013/03/13/death-to-dishonesty-3-ways-czechs-reject-the-fakery-of-modern-life/
According value survey (1995) 83,7% of Russians said that the family is very important, 12,6% agreed that it is very important. Czech numbers were 90,8% and 7,2%. So if for Russians is the family important, for Czechs is important even more.
Horizontal mobility is small. People will commute, they will accept a pay cut, but they will not move. Austrians  and Czechs are two nation in the EU which are the least wiling to move abroad to get a very well paid job.
If there is a problem in a family - an unknown father + an alcoholic mother - the children will go to the grandparents or an aunt.
Also if the parents do not have money to support their children, the grand parents must step in, they can be sued for support. On the other land, the grand children must support grand parents.

b) It is true that 20th century was not very kind to the Central Europe. It is true that Czechs as a nation emerged from years of communism and occupation as on of the most damages nations, if not the most damages one. A low trust society, a parochial and an intolerant society, a society of cynics, egoists living according "he who does not steal from the common, steals from his family". A society which was very aptly described as a society where is nothing shameful, a society which is sometime nicknamed "Chechnya under Bohemian forest".   It is also true that the economic transformation was a bit disaster and country is ruled by peoples born in 1950s or 1960s, that is by the most damages generations. But there are first green branches on the scorched land, a new free generation was born, generation which is not taught to say one thing at home and an another in school, a generation of open borders, a generation of the internet, a generation which is less materialistic (it does not remember empty shops) and less obedient. So there is slow revival of civic society and if you have a look at Inglehat's map, you can see that self expressions is more valued then self-survival. It means Czechs are more ready than Russians to sign a petition ...to do something.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inglehart%E2%80%93Welzel_cultural_map_of_the_world#mediaviewer/File:Inglehart_Values_Map2.svg
In this case
- there were collecting money for a lawyer, there was few demonstrations and petitions, there is a constant pressure on the government, ministers Diensbier and Marksová-Tominová are criticised for not doing enough.
- CPS  has a new page in Wikipedia
- Dominik Hašek - promised his golden medial from Nagano to person who will get the children back.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominik_Ha%C5%A1ek

c) there is the question that the boys are Czech citizens and the same goes for their parents. Also it is not only one case, they are minimally  five cases (Gabriela Lode..) So Norway is sorting a Czech family? Hu?

d) there is the language question. I am not sure if you understand it.  I think Peter the Great prohibited to use Ukrainian for printing books in 1720, the prohibition was repeated. Lithuanian were prohibited to print anything in Lithuanian, but few church books and they had to be printed in Russian alphabet. "What the Russian bayonet didn't accomplish, the Russian school will."  Austrian post offices did not accept a telegram in Czech or in Slovenian in 19th century. The first Czech high school was open 1848 (I think), the University in Warsaw was closed by Russians. Prague university got its Czech branch only in 1882.
If your mother tongue is Estonian, Czech, Polish, Lithuanian it is for you not a self evident fact, but a result of a long fight for every Czech school, every Polish book, for every child.
Look the anthems - it is nothing along the line Rule Britania. It is Poland is not dead yet, Ukraine is not dead yet, Slovaks will be reborn, Where is my home ? (the Czech anthem)
If you open autobiographies of local "saint" , you will find a constant motive - how they were humiliated, getting beating, being punished and mock for crime of using their mother tongue. I suppose for you is Rosa Luxemburg a German socialist, but she was from a Polish, Jewish family and in her youth she used to pick her friends for their ability to speak French, to avoid conversation in occupants languages (German and Russian), to use Polish was a punishable offence.
The best book written about the Czech language is a book written under Nazi occupation, it was written by a Prague German speaking Jew and it name is "Czech  as a temple and a fortified house. The language is sacred. It is a heirloom.  To prohibit a Czech mother to speak with her children in Czech is something comparable with cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad. Maybe worse. It is an attack on the whole community. It got people to switch in a short thinking mode.
Poles compared CPS in Norway with Hitlerjugend, in the Czech republic are they compared with Lebensborn. On the Czech blogs (no it the press) are people asking why the hell  is Norway not nuked yet, nuke the Nazi. There is believe in Lithuania, in the Czech republic in in Poland that the goal of CPS is to steal others people children, because children are valuable resource. 

e)also it sells newspapers and brings points to opposition.

Naine, I don't know about your background, but I would like to make a few observations so as to keep the historical aspects correct. I don't want this to grow too much off-topic, so here are a few short bullt-points

a. Yes, Russians and Czechs are different, mostly in that Czechs have been under Germanic influence for a prolonged period. The reason for the family structure lies indeed in agriculture, abut also in the availability of land and in the system of serfdom in Russia that didn't allow peasants to move out up until 1800s.
Don't take the results of social studies from the 90s Russia too literally. Russia was experiencing a violent post-Soviet social disintegration at that time and that reflected in the values. Also, if the studies were conducted in Moscow and St.Petersburg, then they would be skewed as these "city-states" are more "Western", than the rest of the country.

This leads to
b. Everyone somehow forgets that the most damaged nation after 70 years of communism was Russia. What you write at the beginning of point (b) very much applies to Russia too. Czechia made a comparatively peaceful transition, and even during the Soviet rule, Czechia had an inflow of capital and industrialisation from Soviet Union during the post-war reconstruction. I remember visiting Pague for the first time in 1986, when it at all became possible to travel abroad. I was blown away by how well-off Czechs were, at the riches of the "abroad". And I came from Moscow...

d. The prohibition of the Ukrainian language by Peter is a myth (and 1729 is the time of Peter II), fostered during the end of 1800s, beginning of 1900s. Some censorship did find place around 1860s, but it was by far not that restrictive.
http://vk.com/topic-1001828_22087206?offset=20
By the way, there was no Ukraine back then - you had a Novorossia, Malorossia and Galicia regions. The first two spoke largely Russian or a very close dialect of it - Surzhik. The Galician dialect was more interspersed with German and Polish words, but still there was less difference with Russian than, say, between Trøndersk dialect and Oslo dialect of Norwegian.
Ukrainian anthem was written by Polish pani, thus the similarity. More info on this in the following article, but it's well outside the scope of this topic
https://futuristrendcast.wordpress.com/2014/11/05/free-earth-shift-report-2-the-falsified-history-of-ukraine-and-its-lessons/

And that VG article went even to mention that there were protests from Russia, India and Poland, tough not going into details of the other cases. It's definitely a step in the right direction.
However, such articles are few and far in between.
The previous article is from 2011, when a Polish embassy worker called Norwegian CPS for Hitlerjugend:
http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/polsk-avis-ambassade-ansatt-kalte-norsk-barnevern-for-hitlerjugend/a/10088287/

Another CPS speciality in an article from 2012:
http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/norske-barnevernsbarn-sendt-paa-straffeturer-med-marinejegere/a/10061715/
Children under CPS "care" were disciplined by rather brutal military means, using physical and psychological torture. At least 21 such cases are documented from 1990s and these people were seeking compensation through courts.

---

A thought about CPS in the Southern Europe. I don't see many (any) complaints about it. Having lived in Spain and travelled around Italy, I can say that family structure and  bonds there is very close to those of Russians and Eastern Europeans. A Spanish family as a whole would fight tooth and nail if a child is even slightly inconvenienced, independent of how distant a relative that child is.

I wonder if it's only my impression or if it is actually better to move South to avoid CPS harassment that surfaces in Scandinavia, Finland, GB, Holland, Germany, Switzerland..?

  
  
From one of our "Lithuania threads" (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=35190#p35190):

Lithuanian interpreter Neringa Ozolina leads demonstration
against the CPS (barnevernet) in Ålesund (in Western Norway)
and gives unequivocal statements to Lithuanian media


Tolken ledet aksjon mot barnevernet (http://www.rbnett.no/nyheter/article10638422.ece)  (The interpreter lead the action against the CPS)
Romsdals Budstikke (newspaper on the west coast of Norway, north of Bergen),
11 February 2015

The text under the picture says "Demonstrerte: Tolk Neringa Ozolina deltok i markeringen utenfor fylkesnemndas møte i Molde mandag." (Demonstrated: Interpreter Neringa Ozolina took part in the demonstration outside the county committee's meeting in Molde on Monday.)

She has a courageous and upright attitude, I think:
"Til litauisk media har tolken omtalt Norge som korrupt, og at barnevernets omsorgsovertakelser drives fram av et profittmotiv, med litauiske barn som attraktiv gevinst."
(To Lithuanian media the interpreter has spoken of Norway as corrupt, and said that the child protection service's take-overs of custody of children is driven by a profit motive, with Lithuanian children as attractive gain.)

"… Den litauiske tolken har engasjert seg i flere litauiske barnevernsaker som har gått i fylkesnemnd og domstol, sist saka med 7-åringen som ble bortført fra Molde i januar."
(The Lithuanian interpreter has taken a stand in several Lithuanian CPS cases which have been up for county committee and court treatment, the latest being the case of the 7-year-old who was abducted from Molde in January.)

Of course Norwegian authorities more or less try to spread fear, saying that "– En tolk er avhengig av tillit fra alle parter, på samme måte som domstolene er det. Så får man sjøl avgjøre om dette styrker tilliten eller ikke, sier Karterud." (– An interpreter is dependent on confidence from all parties, in the same way that the courts are. So then one must oneself decide whether this strengthens confidence or not, says Karterud.)

(Terje Karterud is senior adviser in the administration of the courts.)
  

Protest of EMP P. Mach in the EU parliament (in Czech), he hold a paper with names of three mothers (from Lithuania, the Czech republic and Sweden)of kidnapped children and speaks about the fact, that some states are kidnapping children.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdqhZ-Fx60g

Response of the Norwegian minister (in English)
https://www.sojdrova.cz/zpravy/2015/02/odpoved-norskeho-ministerstva-po-vice-nez-trech-mesicich-a-bez-konkretnich-navrhu

a blog
http://motls.blogspot.nl/2015/01/norways-theft-of-two-czech-boys-is.html

X mass presents  for Michalák boys
http://euportal.parlamentnilisty.cz/PrintArticle/13185-ministryne-marksova-tominova-opet-nezklamala-kasle-na-ochranu-ceskych-deti-pred-tyranim.aspx

a Czech joke
http://g.cz/adoptuj-si-sveho-nora
Adopt your Norwegian child.
During school holidays are many Norwegian teenagers coming to Prague to get drunk, it means that their biological parents do something wrong.
So we propose:
a) to hunt them down
b) get them to a Czech family for re-education, they can see their parents twice a year, the only allowed language will be Czech
c) everybody(CPS, parents, the Norwegian government) must understand that it is in the interest of the children, they must be protected from biological parents, they must be given to families with positive attitude to alcohol and learn that it is better to drink a small amount every day than to drink the same amount of alcohol  once a week.



a) Thanks for the correction. Taken from Wikipedia, I am afraid. Not a fan of Russian history, to depressive.
b) Not to get off the topic to much. It is more complex. I was in Moscow in 1986. I agree that the living standards were very different. I agree that 1990s were not economically such a disaster as in Russia, although the Czech economic transformation is a disaster in comparison with the rest "returned Europe" (the worse results apart Hungary and Croatia).
But it is more subtle than that. After WWI the living standard of the Czech lands was higher than in Austria. It was an industrial base of the whole Empire. School was obligatory since the second half of 18.the century.   After WWII the Czech living standard got up a bit, but at the end (1989) it ended at 1/3 of the Austrian one.  If you live in a tiny country, you see in the neighbour's plate, so Czechs were not satisfied. After WWI Russia was still peasant and illiterate. Communist were not seen in Russia as 100% an economic disaster. But it was not my point.  The Czech land were richer than Russia, true, but the moral marasmus was much worse and destructive in the Czech lands than in Slovakia or in Russia. Russians were not satisfied with many things, but they identified with the system (there were also more isolated = having less information), the self expression value are not so strong in Russia, so they were not forced to lie everyday in such degree as Czechs. Plus one of consequences of 1968 was not only an another emigration wave, but also the fact that 10% of population was kicked out of job(an the peoples in question were not cleaning ladies = destruction of cultural capital).  In the second half of 1980s Russia was more free than Czechoslovakia.

I think that Germany has also problems. The Scandinavia, the Netherlands and the Britain have problems, without doubts.

66 Czechs children - in the UK
http://www.tyden.cz/rubriky/domaci/cechum-berou-v-cizine-deti-kauzu-cesky-v-norsku-resi-evropa_290513.html#.VN5WCqNwZgY

a child from Slovakia plaid with dolls in school, CPS we called
an another mother was told that if she moves back to Slovakia, she will keep one child
Ivana Boorova case, you are in hospital, do you not want to see your child - when her husband came with the child, the child was taken by CPS. The mother was told that she will go to prison for 3 years, if she goes public.
http://www.invarena.cz/?p=9433

the children were to slim
http://sonasvobodova.blog.idnes.cz/c/424560/Hubenym-Slovakum-vzala-socialka-v-Britanii-jejich-hubene-deti.html

The friend of mine had problems in the Netherlands, she got her child back, but she is not very young, she is very intelligent and she has very well paid job.
I do not know, what caused her problem. The father of the chid?

CPS had problem that:
a) she works (she has a part time job)
b) the child is in a wrong school (not a Dutch school, but neither parent is a Dutch, so they were discriminated against in school)
c) I love this one - the mother has too many books.

If you want Czech numbers (2011)
7000 children above 3 years in institutional care (1/3 youth detention centres)
3000 children younger that 3 years in care - from them (during year 2011) - 11 adopted against parents wishes.
10000 in foster care or guardianship - 2/3 of guardians own family.

That joke should really get implemented by Czech CPS. And it would probably be beneficial for the Norwegian teens. Anyone who's seen them wild on Minorca can attest to it.  :P

Naine, thank you for the view of the political side from the Czech perspective. I really appreciate it.


It's like that reason given by Norwegian CPS, when mother was deemed to be too smart:

http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page122/page122.html

Some numbers from the council of Europe.
http://website-pace.net/documents/10643/1127812/EDOC_Social+services+in+Europe.pdf/dc06054e-2051-49f5-bfbd-31c9c0144a32

of of the Uk cases
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2516270/Please-dont-baby-Agony-mother-baby-girl-adoption-secret-court-judge-forced-caesarean.html

it's impressive what the open internet can do to freedom of expression and the issues that can be discuss freely by anyone wishing to take part in them, however you have to understand and accept that the same people that do that to children have all interest in you not having those discussion, exposing the wideness of the scandals. I think you should take the opportunity to use decentralized system of communication as back up, the "controllers" seem to be moving to close such open places with their new "regulations", if they can kidnap children, what can they do with the inter web...  8). 0trust.  :D.

This is all true, all except the part of them depending on everyone not having this conversation. The overwhelming abomination that is consuming children for profit is so atrocious, that people put it out of their minds simply so they do not have to realize the fact that it is a truly horrible reality, therefore necessitating action on their part. The nazis called this "the big lie".

The CPS in Norway are not happy. They complained that one of the Michalák boys  was able to find information about his case on internet. And this is bad.

I suppose if the foster parents are telling him, that his mother does not love him...and he can find different information...it is "bad".

The mother of the boys  is prohibited to take the pictures of boys and to post the old ones on internet.
The foster parents posted the pictures on Facebook
http://www.blesk.cz/clanek/zpravy-udalosti/302415/kauza-odebranych-ceskych-deti-v-norsku-pestouni-se-kluky-chlubi-na-facebooku-matce-to-bylo-zakazane.html

The Lithuanian case
http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/society/norways-ambassador-to-lithuania-speaks-out-on-child-custody-controversy-involving-norwegian-child-services.d?id=67143444
http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/foreign-affairs/lithuanian-foreig-minister-and-norwegian-ambassador-discuss-childrens-rights-protection.d?id=67106628
http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/society/polish-investigator-who-kidnaps-lithuanian-children-from-norways-child-services-we-did-things-we-cannot-talk-about.d?id=67100792

the cyberspace is just another battlefield...

  
The report, now in a preliminary form, from the Council of Europe which you have linked to, Naine, is very important, I think:
Social services in Europe: legislation and practice of the removal of children from their families in Council of Europe member States (http://website-pace.net/documents/10643/1127812/EDOC_Social+services+in+Europe.pdf/dc06054e-2051-49f5-bfbd-31c9c0144a32)
January 2015

And it is brand new! I had no idea of its existence. Wonderful - where ever did you find it? There are several formulations there which are so rightly critical of abuses going on that I can hardly believe my eyes. I have only skimmed through it, but I must study it more closely. (Hmm, the reporter is Russian, Nemo - a feather in Russia's cap too!)

*

About different countries:


I don't think it is only your impression. There are indications that the countries of Southern Europe have a greater respect for the family than we do further north, and I think probably it has something to do with their Catholic faith, its greater veneration of mothers and family ties altogether.

Mind you, the northerners can "impress" them about our "welfare" and our court procedures, so that they will hand over Scandinavian refugees with children to the country which demands them back. Exactly because the southern countries do not take children away from their families on the same loose grounds that Norway does, Norway can wave court verdicts which seem very very impressive and the southerners will perhaps tend to believe that in a near perfect country like Norway, with its heavenly economy and divine social welfare system, a parent who has been condemned by a court to lose his/her children must be very bad indeed. I guess they have difficulties understanding how pervasive the lies and deception of the CPS system are, and find it equally incredible that Norway should send halv a dozen policemen and social workers down to get a child, unless that child was in incredible danger.

But nevertheless: I think Catholicism gives a certain protection against the inhuman thinking so usual in CPS circles, which perhaps Protestantism and atheism do not give equally naturally.

And since we already have the promising report from the Council of Europe (to which the European Court of Human Rights "belongs"), let me mention one particular person:
the French judge at the European Court of Human Rights, Edmond Pettiti (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis-Edmond_Pettiti), at the time of the Olsson cases against Sweden. He is the judge that to my mind really stands out in Strasbourg. And he was a devout Catholic, I believe. He went extra strongly against the Swedish authorities in a dissenting opinion, expressing among other things the importance of the parents' love and "respect of their most sacred rights". Here it is:

•••
Olsson 2: PARTLY DISSENTING OPINION OF JUDGE PETTITI, JOINED BY
JUDGES MATSCHER* AND RUSSO

"The social welfare authorities displayed what was almost
contempt both for the national courts and the European Court. It is
somewhat surprising that neither the courts nor the governmental
authorities managed to force the "imperialism" of the social
services to give ground.

At no time did the social welfare authorities take the least
account of the love for their children that the parents sought to
express, a love that was demonstrated by the years of struggle in
proceedings to seek to obtain the return of the children and the
respect of their most sacred rights.

Clearly, the Olsson parents' attitude was not always
helpful, particularly after 1989, and they must therefore bear a
part of the responsibility. Yet one must not forget their despair
after the repeated failures with which they met even after the
favourable decisions of the European Court and the national courts
(see paragraph 53 et seq. of the present judgment)."
•••

A little more about the Olsson cases is included e.g in this article:
Norway and Sweden – where inhuman rights prevail (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7146)
by Siv Westerberg

  

I found a good analysis of the report here:
https://celticknotblog.wordpress.com/2015/02/06/social-services-in-europe-legislation-and-practice-of-the-removal-of-children-from-their-families-in-council-of-europe-member-states/

There is one political problem, that I hope will not detract from the report, exactly because it comes from a Russian reporter.
Russia was denied voting rights in PACE for the second year in the row under the bad pretext of Ukraine and considers leaving the Council of Europe altogether next year as it sees no point in paying a membership fee if it is not going to be heard anyway.


Maybe, though being an atheist in at least 3rd generation, I would disagree. :) Atheists tend to subscribe to humanistic views, with the main principal of "do to others as you would like others do to you".

  
On the news on Norwegian tv2 just now, 16 February at 3 pm, there was a short report from Prague. I don't know if you'll credit it, but it was actually about Norwegian teenagers who were vacationing in Prage in their winter holidays. The "winter holidays" run for a week with schools closed.

Cf "the joke" above – I "stole" it and posted it here, tried to sort of summarise it together with the comment that you could see them in Minorca:
Joke circulating – Adopt your Norwegian child! (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=35205#p35205)
 
Back to the news: It seems that there is a firm - or an organisation - which specialises in arranging a kind of "package tour" to Prague for Norwegian school kids. The firm rents several bars or restaurants where these kids go and party, some of them are under 18. The arranging firm has refused to be interviewed by tv, but has sent them a mail saying that the under-age teenagers are not supposed to drink alcohol and that the firm provides "guards" to take care of that and keep general order. One participant, who was over 18, was interviewed in the street and said that in reality no questions are asked and that those under 18 were served and drank like everyone else. A hotel manager was interviewed and talked about trouble – there were other guests to consider (people who evidently didn't unreservedly like the wild crazy Norwegian youngsters) and he also said that they liked to keep their hotel nice and undamaged. I didn't catch whether this hotel had thrown the Norwegian wild ones out.

So, you don't have to go as far as Minorca to see them. – Norwegian upbringing, including that brought about by Norwegian child protection, no doubt. Well actually, lots of grown-up Norwegian people behave just about the same both on holiday and at home of a Saturday night.

But we Norwegians, especially Norwegian child protection experts, of course know best about everything regarding children, the kind of upbringing they should have, the milieu they should live in, what "stimulation" they need! (The "lack of adequate stimulation" is one of the CPS's pet accusations against parents.) So of course it is best for Eva Michaláková's boys to grow up in Norway and under expert guidance by Norwegians! (:D ?? Hollow laughter)
  

I am a professional  (I am paid, you can say overpaid,  for finding information).
I was digging information for reaction of the Council of Europe, because Norway is not an EU member, so this is a place to complain.
Additionally there was the case when CPC authority questioned this small girl for four hours to forced her to say that her father is a pedo and she won her case against Norway.

This is not only Norway.  The cases from the UK are also bad.

This case had a happy end
http://www.maminka.cz/clanek/jana-v-norsku-mi-malem-sebrali-helenku

Jana is a young Czech  woman, she has met a bloke from Norway in Prague, she has married him and moved to Norway. A daughter was born and her family was visiting. The went for a walk with the pram. it was cold, they entered a café  and ordered a grog (she was not breastfeeding any more). The waitress look funny, after some time she had a discussion with an another customer. They called somebody After 15 min police arrived with a CPC, everybody ended in the local police station. CPC wanted to take the baby.  What saved her was that her husband was from Norway and he is a physician. When he arrived everybody changed tune, she was offered a place to change nappies....

This is the whole Scandinavia + the UK problem. Few days ago Danish students demolished a Prague hotel.
I think that many people in the Scandinavia have the same attitude to alcohol as a child of an alcoholic (you are or an abstinent or an alcoholic) + plus Norway is a part of the vodka belt, because if you look at the consumption per capita it is pretty low in Norway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption_per_capita

"This home therapist was a 60-year-old woman, unmarried with no children. She had no kind of education for a profession as "home therapist"

At my second grade I had a teacher, 60+, unmarried and childless. I do not remember her fondly.
The only people, who know precisely how to raise a child are people, who do not have any.

News from Lithuania, few pretty angry MPs
http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/politics/group-of-mps-want-lithuanian-government-to-pick-a-fight-with-norway-over-childrens-welfare.d?id=67207776

This case is pretty interesting from a logical point of view: the woman's sister and this sister's fiancé didn't speak Norwegian. The woman's husband was not with them, so it is natural to assume that all three were speaking Czech in the café. To a causal observer (e.g.: the waitress) they would look just like a group of tourists. In other words, this case is a clear indication that Norwegian CPS can target tourists visiting the country and attempt taking these tourists' kids from them.

act of war.

it's a big problem, just have watched few shows about this issue and I believe, that Norway should pay attention to different cultures, not just impose its culure and laws to imigrants. they work for them and contribute to theirs economy.. it requires compromise...

I bow to what is probably very superior knowledge as regards atheists, since my knowledge is restricted, it is true. I do not have any systematic overview.

But regarding Christians I think it may be as I said. The Catholic form of Christianity places Mary, the mother of Christ, very centrally. With that tends to go an ingrained awareness of and respect for motherhood that is absent from protestantism in my experience (Lutheran protestantism has been predominant in Norway since the reformation and still is). "Getting rid of" the worship of saints, and the Holy Virgin Mary among them, was one of the elements in the protestant reformation.

**

This video is a year old:

Norvegija „Barnevernet - vaikų medžioklė" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2Jp-Y1KgTo)
Norvegijos – on youtube, 18 January 2015


It is probably interesting in itself, I think (my guess is it is in Polish, with Lithuanian texting), and there are many more relevant ones in the right hand margin on youtube. I am very glad that there is so much activity exposing and discussing Norwegian CPS abroad now. The title I think means something like "Norwegian Barnevernet (the child protection service) hunts for children".

A search with the words "vaikų medžioklė" gives a long list of hits.

    

Finnish Ministry of Justice came with a statement that taking of the children from the families is done as the last resort and always for the better of the children, according to the following article in Russian:

http://tass.ru/obschestvo/1793461

Ha!

  
"Our" thread here seems to have gone to rest or taken a pause. Which is natural; none of us have unlimited time to look for new relevant things the whole time.

It does not, unfortunately, mean that no new tragic cases see light - they do, all the time. But they are so frequent that they are almost commonplace in the perception of the Norwegian public, and of course Norwegian authorities and their chummies the press always try to keep silent about the tragedies. They do, on the other hand, keep their hand in publicising their "concern" about all the children they think are maltreated by their parents (but never about those maltreated and brain-washed by foster "parents" or in institutions).

Also, there are developments the whole time, but in the wrong direction. Here is a recent question in our parliament (called Stortinget) by an MP who was worried about the fact that the law had not yet criminalised the action of children being taken back by parents when the children had just been taken on an interim emergency decision, not yet confirmed by a County Committee or a court. The Minister of Justice answered her that he and the government were as worried as she was, and that there would be a proposal to make that too illegal. In other words, the child protection people can just take a child and install it anywhere they please, without giving any explanation and for as long as it takes them to cook up a case for the County Committee, and parents who try to take the child back face prison, just like the parents who try to get their child away after a County Committee decision or a court verdict in favour of the CPS:

Skriftlig spørsmål fra Jenny Klinge (Sp) til justis- og beredskapsministeren (https://www.stortinget.no/no/Saker-og-publikasjoner/Sporsmal/Skriftlige-sporsmal-og-svar/Skriftlig-sporsmal/?qid=61927)
(Written question from Jenny Klinge (Sp) to the Minister of Justice and Public Security)
Stortinget (Parliament), 4 - 5 February 2015

I just about expected this, after the two Lithuanian families tried to rescue their children – one succeeded, one failed (the little boy) – and in the last-mentioned case the police and the CPS evidently tried all they could to find something criminal to accuse the mother and her helpers of (cf this post about the hunt for the boy and the helpers (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=35159#p35159)).

This is a new turning of the screw – we have had a lot such little and bigger steps putting families completely out of power as regards their children. They started at least 25 years ago and have been introduced so gradually that the blue-eyed Norwegians have completely overlooked it all.

Another threatening development will be the introduction of "Child and family courts". It sounds fine maybe, sounds as though these "specialised" courts will offer more of a solid procedure under "the rule of law" than we have at present. In reality it will be something just like the County Committes, just with a new name, added prestige and exactly the same kind of people as experts confirming each other – yet another solidification of what is being done already.

*

I sincerely hope that all these other countries, the Czech Republic, Russia, Slovakia, Poland, the Baltic countries, will not back down but will continue fighting for their expatriots' natural family life. There are other countries too which have experience of the same: India, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Nigeria, Brazil which could usefully join in – but many of them of course have so many issues to tackle at home, and Norwegian CPS and bureaucracy certainly know how to talk gobbledygook and then let things drag on endlessly so that people and foreign governments give up or lose interest.

It will be a miracle, I am afraid, if any of the children from foreign lands who have been taken and deprived of their families by Norway will ever be set free – certainly not voluntarily. Norway fears the consequences and repercussions of letting eny of them go. On the contrary, after the India case in Stavanger, the CPS were promised that our Foreign Ministry and other ministries would take on "informing" other nations about child protection and relieve local CPS units of having to deal with protests.

  

Missouri boy put into foster care after parents sought second opinion on medical diagnosis
http://truthbesold.com/missouri-boy-put-into-foster-care-after-parents-sought-second-opinion-on-medical-diagnosis/

Seems to be a terrible case, but unfortunately not unusual. They are going strong here in Europe too, worse luck. How on earth can we help people out of the clutches of "professionals"?

To my mind it is not just a question of a dangerous system of authority and power, it is one particular item in this system: psychology of the psycho-babble kind. All the quackery has invaded psychology since the time and influence of Freud and is getting stronger. Freud, by the way, knew nothing about the brain and completely missed the developments in biochemistry and medicine of the time, such as the discovery of hormones and their relationship to sensory stimulation and behaviour.

And clinical psychology has been going down all sorts of dead-end roads ever since. If there is such a thing as psycho-somatic illness (which is a question of definition, of course), psychologists certainly have no particular insight into how it is generated or cured. We need to remember that the number of patients Freud cured by means of his psychoanalysis, was zero - 0 - nil. On the contrary, one of his patients had to go into a sanatorium after Freud and Breuer had fiddled around with her too long, not getting anywhere. The sanatorium put her on her feet. Freud was also instrumental in causing the death of at least one patient plus one friend of his, the patient because he did not discover a brain tumour but psychoanalysed the man while the tumour developed, his friend by introducing him to cocaine, claiming that this would cure his addiction to morphia. Before very long the friend was addicted to both, and committed suicide.

We need to keep in mind that the brain is actually an organ in the body, like other organs, and that if people were really as detrimentally affected by their environment as the psycho-babblers say this poor boy in Missouri is, then our species would never have survived through evolution. Think of it: Humans have spread around the world, managing to survive and adapt to all sorts of environments and conditions long before any "modern" facilities or inventions were around. And yet psycho-babblers believe that we completely lose our grip if we have a frightening experience or two? And ordinary people are led to believe this too, believe that it is necessary to "go into therapy" given by these jokers, for years - and that that is what makes us better? How about reading something by Frederick Crews and throwing the psychological nonsense out of the hospitals and the courts? Crews is very refreshing (I have read The Memory Wars.)

Frederick Crews (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Crews)
Wikipedia, (last updated) 12 February 2015

This is just shocking. What the hell is going on in those countries? And that madness is spreading like a plague in all Europe ...
Just can't believe it ...

I found an interesting testimonial to this "child-care" problem in one of the science fiction book "Long Mars" by the British authors Sir Terry Pratchett and Stephen Baxter, in chapter 24. The problem has made it into the British national heritage.

A boy, Paul was an exceptionally bright kid, and he eventually gets taken away from his father, who by that time is divorced. Paul's sister lives with her
mother, but she too is taken away, when she shows signs of out of the ordinary cleverness. Sample these two quotes:

"Paul was just ten when he was taken away from his father."

"A little digging revealed that Paul's sister Judy had by now also been taken away from her mother. And, such was the whim of the care system, the siblings were kept apart."

The cult of child welfare here in Norway is pathetically Draconian. I speak from experience. The following is a short summary.

My family has been involved with that cult since 2003. It all started when my wife was going through PPD aka Postpartum Depression after our first child. She sought help at a health clinic for it and thought we needed help with the upbringing of our first daughter. The clinic (slaves of child welfare) asked if they could contact them. My wife agreed to it, without even discussing it with me. And it blew up from there.

The cult used every dirty trick to steal our daughters (second daughter was born in 2007) from us. We won, what we thought was the last court hearing back in Oslo. Little did my wife know that when she and our daughters moved 2 hours ride north to Gjøvik, everything would start up again. Our kids were kidnapped in April 2010.

We have been through hearing after hearing and with each hearing we bring new evidence that proves we are loving and caring parents, while the child welfare cult uses outdated and fabricated material.

Here it is the 12th of March 2015 and our daughters are STILL in captivity.

Parents and children here have ZERO rights. The cult of child welfare has been violating Human Rights and parental rights for YEARS and most cases, the cult 'wins'. Norway has even been brought to the European Court of Human Rights several times and EACH time, they have been found guilty.

Those that think this does not happen in Norway, then I suggest that you open your eyes, because myopia is not a good way to live.

My wife and I have LIMITED visitations with our daughters for a scant couple, yes I said COUPLE, of hours for LITERALLY once a year. None of us are abusive, neglectful, violent or do drugs. And look at how we are treated. Norway is NOT the perfect country people believe it is. Sure, it is beautiful in many ways, but there is MUCH going on here that those outside Norway AND even inside Norway simply choose to not believe that these crimes happen.

For the record, I am an American citizen that is married to a beautiful Norwegian woman and am treated like a leper by Norway.

ohhh... American citizens held hostage... what is the cia doing... ahhh I see planning the next false flag in America...

tribute for the princes? who knows, but the cia loves gmo, then... all bets are off. sorry if true, but it's war, Total Warfare.

why should the norvegian gov have a different status than said the Iraqi one... there is American hostages held against their will... I bet if in the story the father was USMIIC his children would never have been kept more than a few hours... UNFAIR.

Sounds awful, man. A lot of this news is very shocking. You should consider sharing your story in a more public manner. Here's a link to the Norway Child Welfare Services page on Wikipedia, you can add your story to the "Criticism and Diplomatic Incidents" section -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Welfare_Services_(Norway) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Welfare_Services_(Norway))

Another of the frightening testimonials and a reminder that once you are targeted by CPS, you should evacuate.

---

An update on the Lithuanian case. Here a quick translation from Russian from the following article:
http://www.regnum.ru/news/polit/1904564.html

Wikipedia... more rofl... no way, chain of command write a letters to all the weaks scumbags undermen that did westpoint... those are so coward, write a letter to westpoint directly and ask... go with a panel there and ask.. that's it? that's you?


my sweetheart anti weed, no way, you go in, full gears, full metal casing, and lead every mother fucker relative to this shit, and when the cops and law and military of the country realize that squads of death are in, you send the drones and cyberwarfare on key infrastructure leading to a massive loss of life, and if possible the return to the stone age (in population number and lvl of technology available) and so never again a mother fucker will stealh the children of your nations, or you are a coward who did westpoint.

edit: I consider all national or private individuals warned concerning the doctrine about kidnapping Chinese Children.

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This was useful, thank you, Nemo.

It might be of  (negative) interest to the Lithuanian member of the European Parliament Valentinas Mazuronis to note a new parliamentary proposal in Norway which (of course) will make matters even worse. It may not be accepted by our parliament, of course, but is quite likely to pass into law:

Here it comes – the parliamentary proposal of criminalising taking children back from acute / temporary placement away from the family
Representantforslag 71 S (2014-2015) (Midlertidig) (https://www.stortinget.no/no/Saker-og-publikasjoner/Publikasjoner/Representantforslag/2014-2015/Dok8-201415-071/) (Proposal from parliamentary representative 71 S (2014-2015) (Temporary)
Stortinget (the Norwegian parliament), 12 March 2015


It has been clear for some time that this would come, cf that the question was taken up by our authorities in connection with the case of the Lithuanian boy Gabrielius:
especially points 4 and 5 here (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=35159#p35159) and
Written question from Jenny Klinge (Sp) to the Minister of Justice and Public Security, 4 - 5 February 2015 (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=35229#p35229). We should note that Jenny Klinge's proposal, stating that there is a lack of sanctions to take parents before a criminal court as long as the children have been taken by the CPS on the basis of a temporary decision, says that this lack "innebærer at mindreårige som er omfattet av et akuttvedtak truffet av barnevernet, har et dårligere strafferettslig vern enn andre barn" (means that minors who are subject to an acute decision taken by the CPS have less protection in criminal law than other children).


This will also possibly affect the Czech case of Eva Michaláková's children, although there the procedure is past a temporary decision.

How many naïve souls in Norway do still believe that the child protection services (CPS) intervenes only when it is abvsolutely necessary, after a long dialogue with the parents and after supportive measures have been tried … etc etc etc ?

- - -

A little later:
  
Here is Mr Valentinas Mazuronis: MEP Valentinas Mazuronis (http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meps/en/124768/VALENTINAS_MAZURONIS_home.html).

  

 

  
I let myself be tempted to wake (not flog) this perhaps exhausted thread (?) once more:

Some episodes here in Norway inspired me to try and express once again that the way the child protection people are allowed to carry on, is of cause in a sense discrimination – they "approve" of some parents (whose children they think it may be too difficult to get hold of and they can't take every child 'cause then perhaps somebody would wake up - -) and frown upon others. But it is in no way open, consistent discrimination of specific actions or specific people, neither on the basis of race, religion, or anything else. On the contrary, anything goes, anything which will serve their purpose. So it's unpredictable for families (except that one can predict that if the eyes of the CPS fall on you, they certainly will find something).

So I added something to a little article I wrote a year ago:

"When people encounter an ordinary Norwegian child protection case for the first time and observe the inhumane way the family is torn apart, they search for an explanation. An ordinary child protection case is certainly not self-explanatory, i.e. of a kind in which it is obvious that society must take action to protect the children.

If the case having drawn their attention concerns a foreign family, it is easy to think that the actions of the CPS (child protection services) are caused by discrimination. Such hypotheses are common both among foreigners and among Norwegians.

I see matters somewhat differently. The actions of the CPS often amount to discrimination in actual practice, but they are not caused by it. The cause is that people with a foreign language and foreign culture are easier to attack for something about their way of living or their reasoning or the way they express themselves. What the CPS attack is often both understandable actions on the part of the family and harmless for the children (or at least far less harmful than what the CPS do against and with them). The child protection services are in principle out to attack families and snatch the children – claiming that this is in the children's best interest, of course. So they utilise whatever can be fitted into psycho-babble ideas of being fatal. Such thinking hits foreign families in the same way as it hits minority families more or less native to the country."

The article:
When children of minorities are deprived of their parents (http://www.mhskanland.net/page120/page189/page189.html)

It´s just "natural" development. West adopted virtually same methods used once in the communist east. There is this grand idea of enlightened socialist state, that owns you from cradle to grave. It started all started (like always) with good intentions, to limit poverty and protect the weakest, before interested activists from Frankfurt school and bureaus became force above law - this is especially true in northern Europe. Court of law cannot interfere with decisions of local "child protection" bureau, once they got their eyes on you, there is no legal force, that will protect you.

EDIT: You have no fucking idea, how profitable child bussiness in Europe can be. You can get middle class income (state subsidies), if you adopt these stolen children. Bureau in return gets more money from state, the more children they "protect" from their families. All for the "greater good".

Wow, I came across this thread after searching for info on the web, and it seems there are quite a few myths being spread here.

This is simply false. The fact is that taking away a child from its parent is the last resort. The CPS has to exhaust all other available options before they can take a child away from its parents, and even then they are required to get a ruling from a special court for social issues. That ruling can be appealed to the courts as well. And unless the courts are in it with the CPS, those rulings confirm that the CPS doesn't just snatch children for trivial things.

And all those cases of foreigners having their children taken away, consider for a moment that perhaps those people don't exactly want to share details that are beneficial to their case. And the CPS in Norway generally can't comment on specific cases due to confidentiality law.

Also consider this: Norway is one of the top countries in the world when it comes to human rights. There's no death penalty, the maximum prison sentence is 21 years (except for "forvaring", which there are extremely strict criteria for and which is never permanent anyway), and so on. Do you really think one of the top countries on human rights would have an entire system in place just to terrorize innocent parents?

A child being taken away for talking about losing a milk tooth? Does anyone really believe this story?

There are no rules in Norway that a child must sleep in its own bed. This is obviously not why the child was taken away from its parents. There's obviously far more to this story than these people claim. Consider that beating your children is allowed and even endorsed in many countries. Not so in Norway. So if you move to norway and keep abusing your children, yes, CPS might knock on your door. But they will also attempt to educate you first. To give you other tools than physical violence when raising a child.

This is also false. There's no "de-genderization". Children are either placed in an institution or in foster care. Foster families are regular families that attempt to raise the children "as their own".

This is also completely false. There's no such definition in Norway.

What are the sources for all these obviously false claims? I can't believe that people actually believe the misinformation about "must always sleep in its own bed", "de-genderization" or "feeding a child is considered forced feeding".

Nothing is going on in those countries. I know it sounds like madness and unbelievable, but that's because it is. It is not true. Many of the claims are simply false, and anyone who bothered to look it up would see that they are false. For example, the claimed laws and rules I quote in my previous post. There are no such rules or laws. And if people bothered to check they would have figured that out by themselves.

Now I'm sure there are cases where CPS makes mistakes, but going from that and to claiming that it's systematic and on purpose is a huge stretch. Especially since the CPS needs to bring their case to "trial" if they want to take over custody of a child.

Would you mind naming a couple of such individuals and parties?

Could you clarify a bit? You don't think a child that's being abused by its parents should be taken away from them?

As a thought experiment, let's consider a child who's being beaten and sexually abused by both of its parents. Should this child not be taken away from them?

  

Lithuania and Norwegian child protection on the news in Norway

On the 7 o'clock news on national tv (nrk) in Norway last night, 12 April 2015, there was a 7 minutes long report about Norwegian child protection services (CPS) and Lithuania's views on it. Much of the program is referred here:

Norsk barnevern slaktes i Litauen (http://www.nrk.no/verden/norsk-barnevern-slaktes-i-litauen-1.12306233) (Norwegian child protection is slaughtered in Lithuania)
nrk Verden, 12 April 2015

As usual, the Norwegian, state-subservient media succeeded in presenting the issue in such a way that the Norwegian ambassador in Vilnius, and the Norwegian authorities, come out as the essence of good, dependable sense, while the Lithuanians are presented as uninformed and foolish. To the degree that Lithuanians were interviewed, they were:

• either superficially informed people in the streets (although one man said that his brother with family had just left Norway because of trouble with the CPS),

• or a short glimpse of a parliament member Aurelia Stancikienè, who was critical of Norway, while the program took care also to bring us the information that the Lithuanian government had full confidence in Norwegian CPS,

• or a longer sequence with an interpreter Neringa Ozolina, who was hot on the 'explanation' that in Norway there was so much in-breeding in the form of marriages between cousins and even brother and sister that we had an excessive number of children born with Downs or other 'deficiencies' and needed new genes, plus needed to boost our population. (Not Norway but Sweden some years ago legalised sex and marriage between half-siblings.)

The reporter did not neglect to say that Norway has no higher incidence of genetic defects than other countries. (One probable reason why Lithuanians may think so, is that Norway has, I am glad to say, developed away from the primitive attitude of hiding handicapped children from view as if they are something to be ashamed of.) So the news program, conducted by journalist Tormod Strand, managed to present Lithuanians as fairly senseless.

*

The Norwegian ambassador to Lithuania, Dag M. Halvorsen, was given quite a bit of interview time to explain how much of the embassy's time had now been consumed by child protection questions. He sort of just had to shake his head at all that the Lithuanians believed about Norway, and he had now hired a PR bureau to present Norway's case.

The fact that Norway has to use advertising professionals to try and stem criticism is of course encouraging. Norway is no doubt alarmed that not every word of milk and honey about Norway is accepted without question. Ambassador Halvorsen's upset actually reminded me quite a bit of an interview Norwegian tv did with a Norwegian diplomat in Russia about child protection, in which the exasperated representative of the Norwegian embassy in Moscow complained that they had 'informed' the Russians about Norwegian CPS but it did not seem to sink in with the Russians!

*

There was not a word about the boy Gabrielius. Demonstrators outside the Norwegian embassy held up posters and I saw his name mentioned there, but Norwegian tv did not mention his case or that of any individual. Clever of Norwegian tv – the sure way of making people sympathise, perhaps understand, would be to show living individuals experiencing Norwegian child protection as a tragedy.

So Norwegian tv certainly did the dirty on the Lithuanians there. But Lithuania, like the Czech Republic and Russia, also opens itself and its case to quite serious criticism:

Why on earth do serious Lithuanians, e.g parliamentary representatives, not inform themselves properly about the principles of Western child protection and the scientific theories, assumptions and speculations held by the psychology that underpin it? The reason why Norwegian CPS acts as it does lies there, in clear daylight (e.g in the Raundalen committee's report) for everyone to see.

Why do they, like the Russians, guess wildly and ruminate about weird causes of CPS actions? It shows Norwegian authorities that Lithuania is badly informed and therefore not dangerous – Norway can run rings around them.


Cf
Lithuanian boy? - unclear news reports (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7771)
Czech family seriously damaged by Norwegian child protection service (CPS) (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7745)

  


  

The background of the story was the claims on live public television in Lithuania, claims supported by a Lithuanian interpreter living in Norway. These claims are basically that "Norway is the most in-bred country in the world, and therefore they need fresh genes in their gene pool, and therefore the government kidnaps Lithuanian children." Of course a piece based on something is focused on that.

Don't you agree that it is rather senseless that public television in Lithuania airs the above mentioned claims? The host seemed to be all into it as well.

I'm puzzled that you seem to think NRK is to be criticized, but not the TV station in Lithuania airing these preposterous claims.

Are you saying that these principles are wrong? It sounds like you think those principles are some sinister plot or something to that effect.

Lastly, just a reminder: Could you take a look at the questions in my previous reply to you? Thanks.

You are wasting your time. Those who participate in this part of the forum are all conspiracy nuts, and there is nothing you can say that will make them change their mind.

Grinder, "Those who participate in this part of the forum are all conspiracy nuts" is not an argument, abut a logical fallacy, called Ad Hominem. It's main goal is to discredit and demonise a messenger and to divert the discussion from the topic at hand and onto a person delivering the message. In this case no attempt is made to address the topic. It's use is usually a strong counter-indicator that the topic has some merit and some party desperately wants that topic to disappear.

hofor also resorts to a logical fallacy in "Many of the claims are simply false, and anyone who bothered to look it up would see that they are false." referring to some unspecified claims that are allegedly false and not saying what is exactly false.

Actually, hofor states that in direct opposition to all the evidence that's been collected in this thread and to the evidence/articles  pointed to on related forums.

Now that we have this out of the way, let me reiterate some of the evidence, by asking three questions.

1. How would you classify an act of a country that detains a child with a foreign citizenship despite protests of this child's guardians and the childs home-country. Further this country provides shaky or no evidence to extradite this child to his home-country? In my book that's kidnapping/abduction. And that's exactly what happened in the case of the 3 Russian families, mentioned in the OP and in subsequent posts, as well as to Czech families, Polish families and the recent Lithuanian families, whose case hofor so viciously attacked.

2. What would you say face-to-face, to the father, who's daughters are held in captivity by the Norwegian state:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=828129.msg10752510#msg10752510

3. How would you describe the following selection of official reasons, given in order to deprive parents of their children and children of their parents?
http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page122/page122.html

Finally, do read Marianne Skanland's posts, and keep an eye on the following sites
Save our children: http://forum.r-b-v.net/
English subsection: http://www.barnevern.org/category/utenlandske-nyheter/

---

I can answer this one. Yes. But that's not the majority of child extraction cases. What about the cases, when the child is a foreign citizen? Why should Norway so desperately hold onto a citizen of another country, breaking every thinkable international law? What about the cases, where the child, after having been taken from his parents, is beaten and mistreated by the foster parents, but is return to those abusers even if he managers to escape?

---

A longer update by Marianne about the Lithuanian case has rolled over onto the previous page:
 DO NOT POST SESC LINKS #top

Also, here are some updates on it in English:
http://www.barnevern.org/litauen-search-for-litauanien-boy-in-norway/


Another case:
http://www.barnevern.org/aistei-ramoskienei-fra-litauen-mistet-sonnen-til-norske-barnevernet/
A Lithuanian woman lost her 5-yo child to Norwegian CPS, after she left her husband, who displayed violent attitude. I'll write an English translation of the article later.

I did say exactly what is false. I was very specific, in fact.

I pointed out your false claim that an insignificant suspicion of mistreatment leads to the child being taken form its parents.

I pointed out your false claim that a child can be taken away for losing a milk tooth.

I pointed out your false claim that there are rules in Norway that children must always sleep in their own beds otherwise the child will be taken away.

I pointed out your false claim that there is "de-genderization" going on.

I pointed out your false claim that feeding a child from one's hand is considered force-feeding.

I also asked you for the sources of all these demonstrably false claims.

I'm sorry, but unfounded claims from individuals with a vested interest in cases is not evidence. When you make outrageous claims that are demonstrably false, that says a lot about your so-called "evidence" or rather the lack of it.

You are automatically and without a grain of critical thinking accepting claims of parents who have had their children taken away from them, and you are posting demonstrably false claims about rules and regulations in Norway.

None of this is evidence. All of it is hearsay. There are no objective, verifiable sources.

Why are you assuming that the stories of these people are accurate, and that they are not simply lying or omitting inconvenient facts to further their own cause? How do you know that the CPS did not rightfully take the children away from abusive parents?

This is just another example of how you automatically assume that you are given an accurate description of the situation. How do you know that the parents did not abuse the children?

I see no sources, and no evidence. Just a list of unsourced claims.

I do like this sentence from the page: "And why does anybody believe that 'child experts' who come up with that kind of argument – even had it been only in a single case – can be trusted in their 'diagnosing' of other cases?"

It is highly relevant, because we see a number of false claims from you and the owner of that site. No child will be taken away from its parents because there is no "military order" in the clothing cabinet. That's a preposterous claim. I also list several preposterous claims from you above. With all of these misleading and false claims, how can either of you be trusted to be factual and objective/unbiased when it comes to the CPS?

Now for my questions (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=828129.msg11069165#msg11069165):

Do you really think one of the top countries on human rights would have an entire system in place just to terrorize innocent parents?

Do you really believe that a child was taken away from its parents because it lost a milk tooth?

Unfortunately, the quality of these sites is rather bad. Claims are appearing out of thin air and people on the forums are accepting them without a single critical thought. This is what a cult does.

Good. Now, please provide evidence that these cases you have mentioned are in fact not cases where the children have been mistreated.

Please cite some of these laws. Furthermore, please cite the relevant Norwegian laws. Because you are not just making assumptions with no real evidence, are you?

There are cases of children being mistreated by foster parents, and that is of course completely unacceptable. As unacceptable as when the real parents mistreat a child. In both cases, the child should be taken away from them, do you not agree?

And not a single critical thought and no critical questions asked. Every wild story about the evil CPS is accepted as Truth.

Grinder, "Those who participate in this part of the forum are all conspiracy nuts" is not an argument, abut a logical fallacy, called Ad Hominem.

It´s actually quite telling. Are Grinder/Hofor Norwegians by any chance? These personal attacks in response to legit criticism of their inhuman government system would be in line with HerrenVolk idea.

Mother of Michalak brothers repeatedly adressed Barnevernet (in front of czech-eu MP Hassenkopf), WHAT SHE DID DO WRONG and HOW COULD SHE RECTIFY errors on her part, that were never even told to her. Response? Barnevernet at first stated, that it is not ready to answer such questions, then its deputies simply walked off.

You nazis here find it completely fine, that biological mother is forbidden to use native language to the boys two times a year, when she is allowed visits by gestapo. You are completely fine with the fact, that norwegian state took foreign citizens without notifying their home country. You are completely fine, that not even your own courts and police can do anything to thwart decision by your Über-bureau.

Only thing you are capable of, is accusing millions of foreign citizens, who took notice of your criminal system to be "conspiracy nuts". Good job, Norway!

http://motls.blogspot.cz/2015/01/norways-theft-of-two-czech-boys-is.html

Hofor: "Now for my questions:
1) Do you really think one of the top countries on human rights would have an entire system in place just to terrorize innocent parents?"

Hilarious  :) Is your entire existence tied to some random list? United States is by most such lists, extremely rich country, yet third of its population is living on food tickets.

2) "Do you really believe that a child was taken away from its parents because it lost a milk tooth?"

Now, this is really continuation of the first, right? Well, I actually DO believe, that social workers in Norway believe, that they are doing greater good (so did Pol Pot). They also believe, thanks to their misguided postmodern education, that family is merely biological construct and its members are really property of the state, they have also zero understanding of international law for they hold and keep foreign citizens without dealing with respective embassies.

Andrej Ruščák, who lived in Norway for many years (and actually raises his son there), told me, that while Norway´s social workers are not inherently bad people, they see biological parents as merely temporary caretakers of the children  ;) Yes, in fact eating "too much" chocolate is a reason in Norway for Barnevernet attention, as is appearing "sad" in school or oh god forbid, being spanked by parent (thats pretty much outlawed already).

HOFOR, I dare you, will you comment on the fact, that not even your own courts are capable of overturning decision of local Barnevernet workers? It this how Norwegians see rule of law?

EDIT: Since you want citation of the law, but are completely unable to provide any yourself. Here is european framework for you. Have a nice read. Custody is always decided by court of law, not by random batshit insane, norwegian activist from Barnevernet. http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/family/children/parental-responsibility/index_en.htm

It makes sense that once the child has been taken away from an abusive parent, the parent's meetings with the formerly abused child need to be supervised. And that isn't possible if the supervisors don't understand the language.

No, it is not some random list. Norway is, in fact, known for its respect for human rights. Do you know anything about Norway at all?

You didn't really answer the question, but I'll bite.

It doesn't matter what individual CPS workers think (of course they are individuals like everyone else, and have different opinions on different things). It matters what the law says, and the law states that biology is in fact important. So once again the people criticizing the Norwegian CPS are making demonstrably false claims.

I'm still not sure what international laws you are referring to. Care to elaborate?

I don't know who this person is, but I do know that he is wrong. Why should one listen to someone who is spreading demonstrably false claims?

Yes, spanking is outlawed. Not just "pretty much", physical abuse of children is completely forbidden in Norway. It's an excellent example of Norway caring for the rights of the individual, in this case the child. Spanking is physical abuse, and research also shows that even spanking causes permanent brain issues, including slower development, etc. What gives you the right to physically abuse another human being, if I might ask?

It seems that those who criticize the CPS support the physical abuse of children. Things are becoming clearer... Can the rest of the people criticizing the CPS here clarify whether they think physical abuse, such as spanking a child, is acceptable?

Of course the courts are able to overturn such decisions. The problem for your argument is that those decisions are strongly founded in the first place, and every time the CPS wants to take a child away from its parents it has to be approved by  separate "court" of sorts ("fylkesnemnda", which consists of, among other things, ordinary people called in for duty). That can then be appealed to the courts, but since independent people have already looked into the matter you know that the CPS has a strong case.

It isn't decided by CPS in Norway either. It's decided by Fylkesnemnda.

Your link doesn't really support your claim, by the way:

"The rules on custody and visiting rights are unique to each country. National laws determine who will have custody, whether custody will be single or shared, who will decide on the child's education, who will administer the child's property and similar issues."

It does say that court rulings are recognized across the EU, but that's not really the issue we're debating.

Hofor,

"maybe" you have misread EU statement. Indeed child custody is decided by national laws, after court proceedings, nothing like that takes place in Norway, where children are taken away by state after mere psychologist statement and lended to well payed foster parents after as little as one month, thus negating your statemenet about any significance of biological family in the first place.

In the case of Michalak family, Barnevernet took the children away after alleged sexual abuse, that was negated as false by both local police and norwegian court. Both boys were parted into different families (why?). Barnevernet however refused to overturn its original decision and even forbidden mother to speak to her children in czech (it wasnt issue until she made appeal to court - negating your statement, that supervision would be impossible). Czech state was not notified by Norway at any point, that its citizens were kept in Norway. After national media and politicians took notice, Barnevernet once again refused to cooperate, unable to even state reasons, why the children were taken away (they couldnt state sexual abuse, as it was already stated to be false by Norway´s justice department) or how should Miss Michalak change her behavior. Deputies of Barnevernet walked out. And why not? Since nobody in Norway is above them, they have nice socialist state within another socialist state.

http://www.praguemonitor.com/2015/01/23/ministry-hand-second-note-norway-over-michal%C3%A1k-kids

Stance of head of state: http://rt.com/news/230951-czech-president-norway-nazi/

As to your personal view, that spanking is not acceptable under any circumstances, how far are your compatriots willing to go in this? Is breaking apart family from different culture enough or should the biological relatives of disciplined ones be jailed along with Mr. Breivik in psychiatric asylum?

EDIT: Those cases are not isolated. Norway already recieved 420+ official notices concerning its abuse of children with foreign passports. Quite a deed, considering it si country of mere five million people.

Norwegian CPS-Barnevernet is violating United Nation Convention on Child Rights

Article 20 1. A child temporarily or permanently deprived of his or her family environment, or in whose own best interests cannot be allowed to remain in that environment, shall be entitled to special protection and assistance provided by the State. 3. Such care could include, inter alia, foster placement, kafalah of Islamic law, adoption or if necessary placement in suitable institutions for the care of children. When considering solutions, due regard shall be paid to the desirability of continuity in a child's upbringing and to the child's ethnic, religious, cultural and linguistic background. http://www.ohchr.org/EN/ProfessionalInterest/Pages/CRC.aspx

Lol hold your fantasy tighter please...you think that now russia will attack Norwegia or what?

Children are not taken away after "mere psychologist statement" as I pointed out several times. CPS can only take over custody after "Fylkesnemnda" has ruled on the case. Once again you have been caught making claims that are demonstrably false. I am sensing a pattern here.

Once again we only have claims with no evidence. Of course parents don't want to admit to abusing their children. But running to one's local press to state one's case is not evidence. It is just more hearsay. You can't link to random articles with an obvious bias towards the abusive parents.

You still don't know about "Fylkesnemnda" and that a decision there needs to be appealed to the courts? If the CPS finds that there is evidence of abuse and Fylkesnemnda and the courts agree, I see no reason to change the decision.

That's because they are bound by confidentiality laws. They can't comment on individual cases (I can't recall any cases they have commented specifically on in public). It might be a good idea for you to educate yourself a bit before forming opinions on something.

Once again you seem to "forget" about Fylkesnemnda and the courts.

Yes, this certainly makes your claims more credible. I love it how you basically shoot yourself in the foot by posting things like this.

While it is my personal view that physically abusing children is wrong, that is not really important here. What's important is the human rights of the child, and the fact that physical abuse leaves permanent scars. The fact that research shows that physical abuse such as spanking actually affects the child's brain.

Of course, you don't really seem to care about the rights of the child. You think it should stay with abusive parents, and you think it's OK to physically abuse a child.

But I'm sorry. If you come to Norway thinking you can keep abusing your child, you are seriously mistaken. And this I believe might be the problem: People from cultures where physical abuse of children is accepted are perhaps often unable to understand that a country has actually banned physical abuse of chidren.

In Norway, you abide by Norwegian law. There's no point in debating that.

What official notices? From where?

Lots of unsourced claims. Lots of false claims. No evidence. That's a description of your posts.

Which part of this is Norway violating, and how?

I find it funny, that you insist, because of high listings of Norway on some random lists in "human rights", that its institutions are above making mistakes, even questioning their decisions seems "weird" to you snow people.

As I already said, your own courts labeled case of sexual abuse as false. Therefore forfeiting stated reason for family liquidation in the first place.

You seem to ignore your own justice system aswell.

If Barnevernet indeed made a mistake in this (not its first) case, then it is responsible for psychological damage to everybody involved. And through Barnevernet entire norwegian state and its citizens, as it was you, not some mythological beast, that gave bureau such immense power in the first place.

Logical fallacy at its finest: We took your children, because we want to protect them. We cannot tell you the reason, because we want to protect yours and theirs privacy (little late, eh?), we cannot overturn our own decision, because the reason for child nationalization didnt change, we cannot tell you the reason why we took your children... repeat ad absurdum and dont forget to mention that Norway is highly developed country (unlike your shithole, childless Untermenschen), so it never makes mistakes. This very modus operandi and lack of transparent reasoning behind it makes norwegian state institutions about as trust worthy as those of equatorial Guinea and its employes as reasonable as ISIS jihadists.

All of those points, if Barnevernet made a mistake, destroyed foreign family and now refuses to abide by court ruling, common sense (ever heard of it?), basic human decency and United Nation Convention on Child Rights.

  
I actually find the new writer hofor's postings in this thread quite useful and welcome. They give a realistic illustration, for all of you who have never observed Norwegian child 'protection' close to, of what CPS victims and CPS critics regularly encounter, what Eva Michaláková is up against, what Gabrielius' family is up against. This is the way they are treated, by most of the general population, who are incredibly trustful of everything emanating from the authorities, and certainly by people close to the system (and that means some tens of thousands of people, actually, in professions which work along with the CPS).

I value your postings, Okurkabinladin. But as far as the person you are most obviously directing them to is concerned, you could probably have saved yourself the trouble. Of course hofor is not here at all for the reason he initially claimed in his first posting: to search for information. He does not follow up on any of Nemo's suggestions of reading properly what has gone before in the thread, if he had done that, he would have found information about most of the points he denies the existence of. He does not follow links, search for possible verification, read reports. He dishes out the usual propaganda we know so well (we see and hear it here in Norway certainly every week if not more often), does so in rather a police manner, talks disparagingly of people who have had their most important bonds of love violated, of the rest of us as ridden by conspiracy thinking and void of truthfulness, has unlimited admiration for official Norway.

This is the reason why the Norwegian population is so vulnerable to the CPS: this is the way people think. Norwegians are on the whole seldom liberal in any sense. Again and again I have had people contact me when they are being ravaged by the CPS, saying "But we never knew it was like this". No, they never took care to know, to inform themselves of the reality beneath the surface, and the result is that the authorities can rely on a docile population. I have quite often said and written that I think in some measure people living in countries run by obvious bandits have the possibility of being of sounder mind, for the reason of knowing that the authorities are bandits. They don't expect anything but banditry from the people in power. In Norway, most authorities are not bandits, therefore, if any 'services' or groups develop unhealthily, they may do so with impunity. People trust them.

Enough of that. I really wanted to post a reference to a new report – one of the many which is in reality considerably revealing of what the CPS produces, and which is (as such warning signals always are) interpreted by our trusting authorities (and of course by all who benefit from the ceaseless activities of the system) as the opposite. The report has surveyed youths from 12 to 20 years of age living in CPS institutions. No asylum seekers were included and 78.5% were ethnic Norwegian. 76% of them turned out to suffer from some serious psychiatric/psychological illness.

Sjokkerende barnevernsrapport: – Tilbudet har ikke vært godt nok (http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/norsk-politikk/sjokkerende-barnevernsrapport-tilbudet-har-ikke-vaert-godt-nok/a/23419837/) (Shocking child protection report: – The offer / assistance has not been good enough)
Tre av fire ungdom i norsk barnevern har en psykisk diagnose (http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/norsk-politikk/sjokkerende-barnevernsrapport-tilbudet-har-ikke-vaert-godt-nok/a/23419837/) (Three out of four youths in Norwegian CPS care have a psychiatric/psychological diagnosis)
VG, 23 March 2015

So of course the Minister for children is so shocked and says that these children must have more of the same, more "barnevern", more therapy, more "help".

Not one word about their being deprived of their own family and deprived of their freedom to return to the family if they want to.

Your friend Ruščák, Okurkabinladin, was quite right. The attitude that parents are irrelevant has been building up for some decades, and certainly the conviction that official employees are the only trustworthy people is deep-rooted in the Norwegian soul. Now this is official policy, it is what the Raundalen committee came up with: Biologically based attachment is nothing, now they are all practicing "utviklingsfremmende tilknytning" - - quite a mouthful, it means "development-enhancing attachment". Hmm, attachment to foster "parents" and CPS personnel and CPS institution personnel, of course – I suppose they are the only people who can enhance development - -. Even some 17 years ago they recommended this for a little boy: if he were kept at the institution where they had put him, he would have fresh, energetic persons to take care of him every day and this would make him so harmonious and "attached", the CPS and the municipality claimed. (I was one of the expert witnesses in the court case and we finally managed to get him back to his mother and grandmother, but I am not going to "prove it" to our Norwegian CPS defender, 'cause it would no doubt galvanise him even further about my unreliability. ;))

Marianne, I agree that replying to hofor is a lost cause - I felt it once I read his reply to my post. However, Okurkabinladin replies are important for the benefit of those honestly seeking information on the issue. It is also worth reiterating that a lot of information can already be found in this thread, a lot of it demonstrating that the problem carries a systemic scale.

For example, the fact that the issue is taken up in the European Parliament and that there was a report made for the Council of Europe:
http://www.barnevern.org/conference-on-the-child-removal-proceedings-in-the-council-of-europe-member-states-and-related-human-rights-issues/
http://website-pace.net/documents/10643/1127812/EDOC_Social+services+in+Europe.pdf/dc06054e-2051-49f5-bfbd-31c9c0144a32

I find it suspicious (though it might be a coincidence), that after almost a month of this thread's inactivity, hofor appears out of the blue and revives it just about at the same time that the Lithuanian cases get a large media attention abroad, leading to Norwegian authorities announcing the need for PR services. As we know, PR can also be of a black variety....

---

Now to the promised translation of
http://www.barnevern.org/aistei-ramoskienei-fra-litauen-mistet-sonnen-til-norske-barnevernet/

TO all ... this propaganda has been pushed by Russian Gov ... some emails leaked early ... showed that some Kremlin dictators pushed some Russian media to publish such bullshit ...

https://cgrozev.wordpress.com/2015/01/31/proven-kremlin-leaked-story-of-navalny-is-sponsored-by-kremlin/

Of course they will try to explain this is full invented ...

http://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/31aaax/hackers_leaks_several_texting_between_the_kremlin/

In these leaked emails ... you have communication ... how kremlin acknowledge the propagande about this story ...

Souldream,
you are now on my ignore list, mouth breathing moron.

This is the ultimate aim of this whole exercise. Kidnap normal children, and place them with homosexuals. More than 50% of these children will end up sexually abused, and some of them will become serial killers and rapists in the future.



I added him to the ignore list years ago. You should have done this earlier.

What a beautiful discussion. my remarks:

1. in such situation there is only force.
2. in such situation there is only force.
3. in such situation there is only force.

example: I want to drink fresh white wine while smoking some weeds on the south coast of the med. sea :

there are 2 options :

A. I don't have overwhelming force, ie I may end up dead in certain places due to their legislation that will be imposed on me.
B. I do have overwhelming force, ie I can send ALL the people living on this jurisdiction to death before they can reach me, I do as I want.

On a more theoretical aspect: when a pr firm side with an enemy combatant (all states agents are by definition combatant, even in support role), does the pr firm have to bear the cost of their choices?

Example: once upon a time a King, somewhere where history is drawn said to a black smith (ain't too racist I hope?) guild members in close by city don't sell any weapon to this city. the black smith backed by the power to was of his city didn't respect the will of the king. What happen to the city of the blacksmith? like some one said, walking on human grease ain't pleasing. understand who can.

advice:

1. pr firm works for money.
2. they don't have any power to kill
3. if you ignore them they can't touch you (including all the entertainment industry).
4. Trust only in God, if you do, you can trust in yourself, you have the BEST guide.

  
A statistic concerning Baltic, Polish and Russian children turned up, which I thought deserved some comments.

Few or many children taken from Lithuanian families in Norway?
The child protection services now present a statistic from the official source Statistisk sentralbyrå (Statistics Norway) (http://www.ssb.no) showing that children from Lithuania, Latvia and Poland are taken by the Norwegian child protection services less frequently than Norwegian children:

Litauiske barn overtas sjelden av barnevernet (http://fontene.no/forsiden/litauiske_barn_overtas_sjelden_av_barnevernet_335992.html) (Lithuanian children are rarely taken over by the CPS)
"Litauen er i harnisk over norske omsorgsovertakelser. Men barn av litauere overtas bare halvparten så ofte som barn av nordmenn, ifølge tall fra barnevernet." (Lithuania is enraged by Norwegian taking into care. But children of Lithuanians are taken into care only half as often as children of Norwegians, according to figures from the CPS.)
Fontene, 17 April 2015

Some comparisons are given:
"• Litauen: 2,8 per 1000
• Latvia: 3,5 per 1000
• Polen: 2,1 per 1000
• Russland: 8,6 per 1000
• Til sammenlikning er det gjennomført omsorgsovertakelse for 6,9 per 1000 norske barn uten innvandrerbakgrun[n].
(Tallene, som gjelder barn innvandret til Norge per 1. januar 2013, ble publisert av Statistisk sentralbyrå i mars 2015)"
(• Lithuania: 2.8 per 1000
• Latvia: 3.5 per 1000
• Poland: 2.1 per 1000
• Russia: 8.6 per 1000
• In comparison, taking into care has been done for 6.9 per 1000 Norwegian children with no immigrant background.
(The figures, which pertain children immigrated to Norway per 1 January 2013, were published by Statistisk sentralbyrå in March of 2015) )


Nina Langfeldt has entered a couple of sensible comments in the comment column under the article. It remains to be seen how long such comments, critical to the CPS, are allowed to stand on the website of Fontene, which is the organ of the trade union of child protection workers. In my experience, they have previously been rather resolute in removing criticism.

*

The most interesting aspect is probably what these figures will be used for by the child protection circles. The writer of the article not surprisingly points to the surmise in Lithuania that Norway is out to get "healthy" genes for its population. Taken in conjunction with the information of how few Lithuanian children have been taken by the CPS, this is probably aimed at showing how uninformed and unreliable Lithuanians are about Norwegian child protection, plus reassure Lithuanians about Norwegian CPS.

However, it seems natural to turn one's thoughts about numbers around somewhat:

When it comes to CPS questions, business as usual on the part of all Norwegian authorities and authority-subservient groups, such as the Ministry, politicians and the CPS themselves, is to refuse to discuss single, concrete cases. If challenged on this point so that they have to answer, they claim to be protecting the family and in particular the children. Whether the family publicises its side of the case or not, while the authorities keep silence, an implicit allegation is conveyed of shameful things having passed in the family, of the family keeping these shameful matters secret, and of the children as being ashamed of their family. This is rarely the reality. Most CPS victims are loving families who want to be together, and the result for the children of the "care" and "help" of the CPS is generally very bad. The CPS actions against children and families is the shameful fact and our authorities and our politicians, who protect and boost these child protection services are the ones who ought to be ashamed.

Realistic exposure of the destinies of all the families affected is prevented by official Norway refusing to face concrete facts about single cases, and relying instead on figures and general arguments. When, for example, the number of children taken into care increases, the impression conveyed without words is that the reason lies in more and more parents being violent, abusive or drug addicts, or else that the CPS are succeeding in exposing more and more such cases in which children have a horrible time at home. The reality is probably rather that increases are due to the CPS receiving even more political, legal and other support to take children, support given in extreme trust in the CPS's assessments always being "in the best interest of the child" and their account always being truthful, and that parents are on principle unimportant for their children.

Of course, it is in reality quite revealing that there are, parallel to the steady increase in CPS actions, an increase in compensation arrangements for "former children in CPS care who have been exposed to abuse and neglect" both in the CPS's private foster homes and in CPS institutions. The time limits for what is accepted as "former" har been drawing steadily closer; in some districts they cover cases up to some years into the 2000s. But Norwegian ideology about our own excellence is not concerned to reveal anything.

The fact that Norwegian authorities carry out their "protection" of children in this way give Lithuanians an extra opportunity to understand what conditions are like in Norway: The way Gabrielius and his family are being treated (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7771), the way the 9-year-old Lithuanian girl and her mother have been treated (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7767), that is the way an even larger percentage of children of Norwegian descent are treated. The Lithuanians are comforted by telling them that there are relatively fewer of them who are treated like that than there are of Norwegian children.

Lithuanians should not let themselves be appeased by any suggestion that this should be some kind of proof that Norwegian CPS is humane, beneficial or favourable to children, or sensible or that they "only take children away from their family when absolutely necessary and after every other kind of help has been attempted".


Two interesting pieces of information have recently come my way:

(a) In Estonia people have begun to question the advance of Western style child protection in their country. They are apparently concerned that ideas of "what kind of conditions a child ought to be offered" leads or will lead to the CPS taking children from poor people. – Their fear is entirely realistic.

(b) Lithuanian media has apparently reported that six families, originally from Lithuania but having lived in Norway for some time, have lately left Norway because they have been approached by Norwegian CPS. – It sounds as very sensible realism. If only Norwegian families too would leave the country in time!

  

1 is already too much.

Here is my latest article in English. It applies the Czech Republic. The description of the CPS is general.

How Norway will undermine Czech intentions for the family, for the protection of children, and for human rights

The Lower Chamber in the Czech parliament has passed a resolution containing good principles for family, children and child protection. This was done in connection with the violations committed against the family of Eva Michaláková in Norway and other Czech citizens.

The Czech principles are in accord with the UN and the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), but diverge markedly from the ill-considered actions of the Norwegian so-called child protection system – officially named the Child Welfare Services (CWS) – and their deviant reasoning about the principles on which the use of force against families and children should rest.

In addition, the Czech parliament recommends that the president and the government of the Czech Republic take the initiative to an international agreement with Norway which will establish the mutual obligation of the parties to inform one another about all administrative cases and court cases concerning the other country's citizens who are minors, and to make involvement possible in such cases. It would then also be possible for Norway to be involved in matters within the Czech Republic.

If one knows the Norwegian system of child protection well, one can easily see how such an arrangement would be abused by Norway.

There are, furthermore, several legal issues involved, e.g. the question of the obligation of confidentiality. Such obligations are violated continuously in Norway, from municipal level all the way to international. The public party's allegations are held to be the unquestionable Truth. For refugees from Norwegian child protection it will be dangerous if Interpol and different nations treat allegations as real proof. It is furthermore problematic that statutes can be stretched and that bureaucrats can have a practice of breaking them. But I will lay legal matters more or less aside.

There are at least two ways in which Norway will abuse the mentioned arrangement:

1. Refugees from child protection

A mutual agreement will be used by Norway to demand children back to Norway from parents (Czechs and others) who flee from misunderstood child protection. The justification on the part of Norway will be the one-sided and deceitful documents of the Norwegian CWS, as well as the opinions they claim to be scientifically based expertise. There is good, illuminating research available which shows both these kinds of documents and such claimed expertise to be spurious.

2. Custody disputes between parents

Norwegian CWS will demand children back e.g. from Czech mothers whose children have Norwegian fathers. They will hold such a claim to be based on expertise (but hardly backed by solid evidence), and justified by the afore-mentioned kinds of documents, second-hand witnesses, undocumented assertions written down as truths, etc. We can compare this with the procedure in criminal cases: The accused is entitled to read his explanation as written down by the police, and can sign it. In child protection cases ONLY the CWS's account is considered valid. This account the CWS often tries to hinder the private parties from reading, in clear violation of the Norwegian law pertaining to public administration. Nobody in the CWS is made to answer for this.

A small digression about the CWS and breaches of the law: If one googles with the Norwegian words "barnevern" (child protection) and "lovbrudd" (breach of law) [1], there are several tens of thousands of hits. That is quite a lot for a small country like Norway. Among the hits one finds everything from official reports and legal articles to the writings of desperately unhappy people.

The methods: Spreading information from sub-quality documents, plus not documented allegations

An arrangement whereby information and people are handed over will in other words be utilised for conveying the arguments of Norwegian CWS, arguments whose truth content is strongly opposed by the other party.

Several Nordic researchers have done research on CWS documents, with results embarrassing for the CWS. [2, 3, 4]

The prevailing methodical fault may be illustrated by Danish significant research showing that children under the CWS had several times worse prognosis than children of drug addicts. [5] The Cinderella effect, from Daly and Wilson's research, shows the importance of biological belonging. [6, 7] (Many interesting references are found in the English Wikipedia article. [8] The article about Daly and Wilson's research by professor emerita Marianne Skånland can be recommended. [9])

How far away the "expertise" which the CWS practice is from real scientific research, may be illustrated by reference to a psychologist on a Norwegian (debate) forum, who claimed that "Children don't give a damn where they live". The CWS hold that children can be just moved to new "parents" and will attach themselves to them. If they do not form attachment to these new "parents", it is due to a reactive attachment disorder created by the biological parents. Children's deep despair is re-interpreted as psychological problems created by the parents. This is then used as an argument that the biological parents are useless. The whole set of ideas is so crazy that outsiders have problems believing it. The CWS generally make use of ideas low on an evidentiary scale, and the CWS use such ideas in an amateurish and cynical way. A pointer is the miserable statistical results of the CWS's care for children. (An example is that children in CWS care have an 8 times higher suicide rate than average. [10])

The belief that the CWS's ideas are plain Truth is a heavy trend today. But in states under the rule of law the truth is something to be proved, on the basis of reliable science. Judges and courts are not to function as "useful idiots" for the ideology of professions, for moralism, trends and plainly wrong contentions.

The systematic support which our form of child protection has in the media [11, 12], the County Committees and courts, combined with the confidentiality practiced as well as the dishonour heaped on people who are "clients" of the CWS, all go to create a power culture which is quite formidable. It has been allowed to keep on and develop over several decades and the CWS organisation is now large enough and strong enough to dare attacking people of resource and social standing as well. The corruption which power lends to this profession is noticeable for the large majority of those attacked and run over. The fact that people accuse the CWS and the County Committees of lying has NO consequences for these establishments. People speak to a stone wall of ignorance and complete power. An illustrative description was given in a comment by Czech journalist Adela Knapova from the Czech magazine Reflex: "In Norway there is a wall. Here it seems as if the state owns the children. It sounds like communism and we have had communism before." [13]

n Norway, it is near impossible for politicians to have a career and at the same time criticise the actions of the CWS. The press and others will immediately attack them furiously. There is a striking logical discrepancy when compensation to CWS victims is granted. It is then acknowledged that CWS care was so and so bad BEFORE ( - 25 years back or more). But when it is a question of the system NOW, the CWS personnel are practically heroes and white knights. To question anything regarding them is to attack The Ultimate Good. But there has never been any revolutionary change in the CWS!

NIBR-report 2006:7: Hjelpetiltak i barnevernet – virker de? (Assistance to families in the CWS - does it work?)

"Det synes som norsk barnevern sliter med et paradoks: Barnevernet bruker i stor grad tiltak som vi har lite systematisk, forskningsbasert kunnskap om og som vi ”er usikre på” eller ”tror på” mye ut fra tradisjoner. Disse tiltakene har vært brukt i årtier, og man har verken klart å finne ut nøyaktig hvordan de virker eller klart å sette noe annet i stedet (”nye tiltaksformer”)." [14]
("It seems that Norwegian child protection is struggling with a paradox: The CWS to a large degree make use of remedies of which we have little systematic, research-based knowledge, and which we are "uncertain of" or "believe in" very much based on tradition. These remedies have been used for decades, and no-one has been able to find out exactly how they function, nor managed to put something else in their place ("new initiatives").")

In dealing with Norwegian child protection matters, Czech authorities will meet an old discipline full of pretence, with New-speak and impressive titles, poorly substatiated assumptions about human beings, and with a high degree of rationalisation and whitewashing of the situation in Norwegian child protection of today. This, Norway will attempt to use to obtain and maintain a deceitful power which violates nature's most important bonds of love - the family. This will come from Norwegian authorities and professionals who should be real child and family experts, people who hold a fanatical belief in all that is going on in Norway in the name of child protection.

.

.

.

References:

1. https://www.google.no/?gws_rd=ssl#q=barnevernet+lovbrudd

2. http://www.krisesenter.org/kritikk_sakkyndige/jt_undersokelse_sakkyndige_utredninger.pdf

3. http://forskning.no/sprak-barn-og-ungdom/2008/02/avdekker-barnevernets-skjulte-sprakmakt

4. http://www.barnasrett.no/Artikler/barnevernets_metoder.htm

5. http://statensnet.dk/pligtarkiv/fremvis.pl?vaerkid=23614&reprid=0&filid=22&iarkiv=1

6. [Suspicious link removed]u.edu/media/Course_files/anth-260-edward-h-hagen/daly-1980-discriminative-parental-solicitude-a-biological-perspective-copy.pdf

7. http://www.cep.ucsb.edu/buller/cinderella%20effect%20facts.pdf

8. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinderella_effect

9. http://www.mhskanland.net/page62/page131/page131.html

10. http://www.nibr.no/pub109

11. http://www.pravasitoday.com/the-media-gives-victims-social-services-the-silent-treatment-arild-holta

12. http://dokument.r-b-v.net/barnevernet_i_media_kandidat_820.pdf

13. http://www.nettavisen.no/nyheter/i-tsjekkia-sier-de-ikke-dra-til-norge-der-tar-de-barna-dine/8522314.html

14. http://www.nibr.no/filer/2006-7.pdf

.

.

A digression:
Norwegians have an incredible faith in the authorities. Recently, a farm was closed without trial. I tried getting some facts about the case. All I get is people's tribute to the authorities. It's disgusting.

  
Another development on the legal front:

Norway to implement the Hague convention on child abduction –
unfortunate development for families targeted by the child protection authorities (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7830)
24 April 2015

It's bad business, certainly, but it was to be expected. Norway has been talking big for a long time now about how much easier it will be to "protect" children when Norway implemenents the Hague convention.


  

  
Wonderful news today: A Lithuanian child and his mother have succeeded! They are home!

Lithuania won't hand back child taken away from Norwegian foster carers, police say (http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/society/lithuania-wont-hand-back-child-taken-away-from-norwegian-foster-carers-police-say.d?id=67808166)
Delfi, by The Lithuania Tribune, 25 April 2015

"A Lithuanian child taken away from his foster carers in Norway and secretly driven to Lithuania and his mother will not be handed over to Norway, a spokesman for the Police Department said."

The article does not say whether this is Gabrielius or another child, but anyway it is terrific! At least one mother and son have been reunited. When Norway will not act humanely, then resolute action from Lithuania now helps keep their own citizens safe. Congratulations to this mother and child on belonging to a better state than Norway!

  

In reply to the OP, that's absolutely terrifying. I believe that it should be up to the parent how to raise their child, not the state. Governments often make sweeping, generalized decisions that don't work in all situations. Every kid is different. Parenting isn't a one-size-fits-all type of thing.

I also find it disturbing that even tourists can have their children taken away under this system, and that the Norwegian government uses the children themselves as informants!

This is just wrong!

  
RichG is right, in my view. It is all of it tragic, and RichG rightly points out one of the major tragedies: the way children are manipulated into saying things which will result in much of their parents' lives being destroyed and of course their own as well.

The authorities have furthermore succeeded in planting 'useful' convictions in the population at large: that whatever children being questioned by 'qualified child experts' say against their parents, is true, while children who do not say negative things about their parents are lying 'in incredible loyalty to their parents'. People trust the quackery of the psychologists and child protection workers (their trust is reinforced by endless propaganda in the press and news and in our parliament, every week). Brute force is being used too, cf the film of the psychologist pressuring the little girl – a link to a description and a further link to the video of it was posted here by Erik Strand back on p 6:
I recently found an article companied by a video ... (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=828129.msg9896905#msg9896905)

*

Politically correct circles now even talk of love – mind you: not the love between children and their family, that is explicitly said to be absent – the children in the care of the child protection service are claimed not to have received love from their family. No, here is an educator of social workers who has recently done a doctorate on the love which social workers must have for the children. They must develop it as a 'basic competence'. And not love for the sake of itself, no, as an item in their 'treatment' of the young. A pedagogical trick. I wrote the comment below a few days ago:

 
Starting to babble about social workers' love (http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page253/page253.html)

It is about as crazy as it can get: Now educational establishments training child protection workers are starting to talk about the love of social workers for "their" children as a "a basic competence".
(Translations from Norwegian are mine.)

Ungdom trenger kjærlighet fra barnevernet (http://forskning.no/helsetjeneste-helseadministrasjon-barn-og-ungdom/2015/04/ungdom-trenger-kjaerlighet-fra-barnevernet) (Young people need love from the child protection agency)
Forskning.no, 28 April 2015

("Forskning" means "research", "science". forskning.no is a website publishing news from universities and other establishments of higher education etc in Norway. The website is solidly and unquestioningly a supporter of the politically correct, and have been known to quickly remove critical articles and comments. This distressing article is of course run of the mill in Norwegian philosophy about children, so it no doubt has a secure place. It might, however, be interesting to see if any critical comments appear and for how long they stay. The article is said by forskning.no to stem from 'research circles' – quite right: that is the kind of 'research' done in the socio-psychological milieus.)


We are told that:
"Love belongs not only in private life, but is also found in the professional relationship between social worker and child and youth."

I have to be ashamed, then? Because I have quite often said and written that one word is totally absent in the world of ideas in Western style social work: love. It turns up here. But in what manner of twisted, distorted version!

Once again there is no mention of at any cost honouring, respecting and upholding the nature-given, unique love between child and parents, the love which holds them together in freedom. No, the program is that social workers are to develop love for children in the hands of the child protection agency as a "basic competence", as "an appreciation which can function as a 'treatment strategy' in working with exposed youths". A helpless theatre performance of paid make-believe-emotions, then, which is said to "demand strong involvement and commitment, says researcher Hilde Marie Thrana at the District University in Lillehammer". One example which is given is the love which a young girl experiences from the social worker who wakes her up every morning when she herself would really prefer to drop out of school.

*

First, the social services destroy the family's preservation of family love, and shut the family completely out of their ideological horizon. Then they talk sentimentally about "Many youngsters in the child protection service have not had the necessary self-confidence established which others get when they experience love in their close family".

This is one of the most harrowing articles I have read for a long time (which says quite a lot). Norwegian professional child protection circles are in the process of stepping over the precipice. And the docile Norwegian population follows them faithfully, almost as one man, on their journey.

  


  

  

I just hope that the Norwegian authorities will not go on a revenge spree, kidnapping dozens more of Lithuanian children living in the Scandinavian nation (there are thousands of Lithuanians working in Norway). Also, remember that for every single child re-united to his/her parents, thousands more remain to be rescued.

This is nothing but a straw man. I have said nothing of the sorts.

The CPS in Norway can indeed be criticized for a number of things, but the criticism needs to be valid and not based on lies and false information.

It's been a while since I last participated here. Please link to where you said this, and of course where you provided actual sources for your claims.

You didn't actually answer the question. Please be more specific about what and how. Vague claims may fly in your circles, but are certainly not good enough for me. Especially when it turns out most claims from those who oppose the CPS so far are demonstrably false.

It's interesting that both of you have  chosen to attack me instead of replying to my points. You two can't even answer simple questions, and you haven't even bothered to respond to multiple specific examples of false claims that I pointed out in your posts.

It's also interesting that Nemo1024 refers to it as a "cause." Ideology apparently defeats facts when fighting this "cause."

This kind of behavior - making unsubstantiated false claims, refusing to back them up, and attacking people instead - seems to be the modus operandi of the anti-CPS crowd in general, so I am not surprised that Marianne isn't getting much traction with her campaign. But it's got nothing to do with people trusting the authorities and everything to do with being caught while making false claims.

I found this thread while searching for something else, IIRC. There was so much misinformation here that I wanted to respond. I had a hard time believing that people actually believed the obviously false claims that were peddled here.

Which farm was this, and what are your sources?

It would be nice to be able to verify a claim in this thread for once. It's really funny to see people accusing those who don't ignore factual information of uncritically accepting the authorities' version of thing, while they themselves at the same time automatically believe anything and everything as long as it's anti-CPS.

Is this satire? Homosexuals turning people into serial killers! Wow.

Why are you so focused on homosexuals?

I see consensus management has arrived. I am surprised it took this long.

What do you think about the claim that the aim of the Norwegian CPS is to create serial killers by kidnapping children from their parents, placing them with homosexuals and having them sexually abused, TECSHARE?

Do you have any actual arguments, or just the regular "I know the facts aren't on my side so I'll just attack instead"?

The fact that children are taken from healthy families by the Norwegian CPS, separated from their parents for months (or for life) and are placed with complete strangers (it's irrelevant if those strangers are LGBT [Lesbian Gomosexual Bestiality Transvestite]) is THE damning action. Everything else pales into irrelevance.

I have a feeling that hofor is one of those Ignore-list residents... ::)

---

Now, an update on the OP case of the 5-yo Oscar, who was taken from his parents last October on charges of his milk tooth being removed by his mother The boy was taken right out of a private(!) school and saw his parents only a few times since then. He is separated from his younger sister, who got salvaged in time from Norway. There are some good news.

Astahov posted on Instagram:
"Good news arrived, friends! There came a serious chance to beat the juvenile system of Norway and to liberate the (5yo) Oscar... In 1 or 2 months, if the parents endure all the conditions for meetings, contact, conduct, the young one will return..."
http://ria.ru/society/20150526/1066633748.html

The parents of Oscar plan to move to St. Petersburgh once the ordeal is over, according to Oscar's grandfather:
http://www.kp.ru/daily/26387.4/3264317/

And the latest:

Newspaper North Post, referencing Boris Cohan of Murmansk CPS said the the Norwegian authorities decided to return the child to his parents: "Norwegian CPS are presenting the plan to finalise all the required procedures. The parents agreed to undergo the special "educational" courses, which ensured that everyone could see the sincerity of the parents' attitude towards the child.", said Cohan.
http://www.gazeta.ru/social/news/2015/05/27/n_7233769.shtml

Attack? I attacked you?

I have plenty of arguments, all of which you promptly ignored and began posting anyway.

I mean, I understand why things like this get in place. People like it when politicians say things like "I'm tough on abuse" it makes people feel better about themselvs knowing that their vote went toward someone that will stop abuse. But when policies get instituted they are too hard, and no one questions it until something bad happens to them.

  
Some demonstrations are planned for Saturday 30 May:

Demonstrations against (Norwegian) child protection in many cities on 30 May 2015
The child protection system will also be a theme in the European Union on 2 June

The demonstrations have been planned for a long time. Probably the Norwegian child protection system will be in focus, at least in some of the demonstrations, but other Western countries are also under criticism and will very likely be en item, especially that of Britain (there is a very high number of complaints re child 'protection' and forced adoptions against Britain at the European Court of Human Rights these last few years).

It is not a bad thing if the central focus is on Norway, although the CPS is just as bad in some other countries and the philosophy driving it is usually the same. If one could effect a change in Norway – closing down the present system and starting to build, from scratch, a real social service – that would give a good foundation for effecting improvements in other countries afterwards.

As usual, the Norwegian press/media is almost uniformely silent. They have of course been trained and have their experience from an ideology which is rather uncritical of the politically correct in most fields. Also, they operate with something they call 'research', which is too superficial and quickly-in-and-out to suit a deep-rooted system gone wrong. A 'lone swallow' this time is:
 
Europeiske demonstrasjoner mot det norske barnevernet (European demonstrations against the Norwegian child protection agency)
Nettavisen, 24 May 2015


It is of course very uncertain how much of a success these demos will be but it is the right thing to attempt regardless. It is probably the only thing that can possibly stop the CPS abuses – long term information, except if a large scale catastrophe were to bring the system(s) to collapse, and we should not want that, since that kind of 'revolution' is apt to bring further disasters in its wake.

Demonstrations in Norway are planned in

Oslo
Stavanger
Trondhjem

In Oslo the demonstration will take place from 11 am until 3 pm, at Eidsvolls Plass outside Stortinget (Parliament).


Abroad there are demonstrations planned in

London
Dublin
Edinburgh
Stockholm
Copenhagen
Warszaw
Prague
Bratislava
Vilnius
Tallinn

I am sorry that neither Russia nor Turkey is in with the rest. However, that does not mean that they are passive or ignorant of CPS problems caused by Norway to their citizens, and whatever other political conflicts between countries, they certainly have shown correct insights and opinions in CPS matters. The Russian children's ombudsman, who is e.g mentioned in Nemo1024's last posting above, is certainly active, in a manner beneficial to children and parents.

The Czech politician who has worked especially against Norwegian child protection abuse is planning to come to Oslo on Saturday and be present at the demonstration here:
He is a Czech member of the EU parliament. His name is
Tomáš Zdechovský
There is quite a lot about his contribution in several postings in "the Czech thread" (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7745) on Forum Redd Våre Barn. He has also been a leading motor in getting CPS debated in the European Union on 2 June.

A new article by Jan Simonsen is expected, probably today Thursday, on his blog (http://www.frie-ytringer.com). Presumably it will be in Norwegian, though, and it is doubtful whether there is much time for anyone to translate it. Nevertheless I will link to it here.
   Jan Simonsen visits the Czech Republic quite often, has many friends and connections there, and has contributed valuably there to disseminate information about Norwegian child protection. His work, too, is referred to here, in "the Czech thread" (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7745).

  
  

^^^ They should have organized protests in Russia as well, as Russian citizens are one of the most affected groups by the Barnevernet child kidnapping. Still, I don't know how much effect this will have on the Barnevernet, as the local Norwegian media will not be giving any coverage at all to these acts.

Its actually quite similar to 1984 by Mr. Orwell. Parents are afraid of their own children. By the way, protests against Norway´s gestapo should be staged in countries such as Poland, Russia, Lithuania, Czech republic, Slovakia, Germany and possibly United Kingdom.

Yes, there should have been. On the other hand, the topic is coming up with certain regularity. I did a quick search using the following keywords: "пpoтecты пpoтив нopвeжcкoй cиcтeмы" (protests against Norwegian system). The results span several years (use Google translate to read the articles):

2012: (How Norway expropriates children from passing foreigners) http://slon.ru/world/kak_norvegiya_otnimaet_detey_u_zaezzhikh_inostrantsev-748576.xhtml

2012: (Russia stared diplomatic war for its children in Norway) http://inosmi.ru/world/20120214/185888131.html

2013: (The sunset of the juvenile policy of Europe) http://ruskline.ru/news_rl/2013/01/28/zakat_zahvatnicheskoj_yuvenalnoj_politiki_v_evrope/ (One poignant fragment of the lecture: The roots of the juvenile technology go straight to Nazi Germany. Adolf Hitler opened the first children's shelters in Finland, Sweden, Norway and other countries for targeted change of the national code in children, expropriated from their parents. Hitler's technologies have taken root and hide today today under the guise of juvenile system to "save" the children all over Europe and the world from the biological parents. ... Also, according to the lecturer, Irina Bergset, the Norwegian "quota" for child expropriation has grown over the last 15 years from 500 to 4000 children per year.)

2014: (Norway violates the Rights of citizens of RF. Russia against Barnevern) http://www.soborjane.ru/news/norvegija_narushaet_prava_rossijan_rossija_protiv_barnevarn/2014-02-07-189 (Key case here is a Russian mother, whos child was taken away without presenting any charges or giving documents. She fights for 3 years now to get a right to exchange letters with her son - Skype, phone, e-mails, paper letter - all is prohibited!)

2014: (There is a coordinated system for extraction of children acting in Norway) http://www.tvc.ru/news/show/id/55171

EDIT: One lengthy, but very important interview, showing the work of a volunteer organisation "Russian Mothers", which tells about several cases of child kidnapping by Norway and how they helped out in each of the cases. This interview confirms many of the issues and specifics, raised by Marianne in this thread:
Refugees from the Juvenile War
http://ruskline.ru/opp/2013/9/27/bezhency_s_yuvenalnoj_vojny/
Do run it through Google translate, and if you have questions, I'll help translating some of the fragments on request.

  
30 May 2015

Ahead of the demonstration today:

Tomáš Zdechovský (KDU-ČSL): Say no to the norwegian terror! (http://vonlocksley.blogspot.no/2015/05/tomas-zdechovsky-kdu-csl-say-no-to.html)
Join the demonstrations which take place on the 30th May in many european cities (London, Oslo, Dublin, Prague, Edinburgh, Vilnius, Stavanger)!
Socialtjänsten i Marks kommun skändar familjer!, 27 mai 2015

Zdechovský also mentions Brno as a city where there will be a demonstration.

The website "Socialtjänsten i Marks kommun skändar familjer!" is a Swedish one, which brings a lot of information about CPS abuses from several countries (of course including Sweden, which is really 'worst in class'). The name means approximately "The Social Services in Marks Municipality abuses families!"

  

  

Here are some news reports from Russian-language media about the protests against the new Norwegian CPS law:

Protest in front of the Norwegian embassy in London, conducted by the emigrants from the former USSR and by Russian Mothers. People places photos of tens of children (predominantly of Russian/ex-USSR origin) that got kidnapped by Norway over the last year (video):
http://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201505301750-7tlz.htm

There was a picket in front of the Norwegian embassy in Tallinn, Estonia against "the Norwegian policy that allows it to expropriate children en mass":
http://www.interfax.ru/world/444708

According to the article, the activists from Estonia say that similar protests are conducted in 14 other countries, including Latvia, Lithuania, Denmark, Sweden, Great Britain, Poland, Slovakia, Russia, Czech Republic, Turkey.

The activists from "Parents of Estonia" say further that they are afraid that the same kind of marauding as in Norway (where a quarter of the children is institutionalised!) can start in Estonia, because Estonian laws are modelled after Norwegian ones.

Edit: And here it is:
http://dsnmp.ru/korolevstvo-plennyih-detey-i-vsemirnyiy-piket-za-semyu-trans-norvegiya-i-deti-video-18-dr-novosti-mirovogo-sodoma/


The video, mentioned above, is in English:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mF3ihYfYcw

Some video and image from Saturday's demonstrations against the CPS in Norway

From Praha:

http://image.r-b-v.net/barnevernsdemonstrasjon-praha_lite.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEw2M12D68A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ2USkLWSug

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHaAGsvIz_o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJyBENI1mdw

From Oslo:

More than a thousand people

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok0_F4x0o5I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZH9v7IMZdk

The quote is from a Norwegian public scrutiny. It is almost 10 years since it was finished. Since then the situation is only getting worse.

It seems in other words that Norway’s child welfare arrangements rest on a paradox. The child welfare authorities tend to use methods about which there is little, systematic research-based information, and which therefore have a high ‘uncertainty’ rating, or which we ‘believe in’ because ‘it’s what we’re used to’. The interventions have been in use for decades and we have neither managed to establish exactly how they work or replace them with something else (‘new interventions’).

http://www.nibr.no/filer/2006-7.pdf

From "pdf-site" 23.

This item can go here. Not exactly kidnapping in the regular sense. But a kidnapping of the sexual identity nonetheless.
Norwegian children are no allowed by law to switch their gender after they are 7 years old. (Marriage is still only after 16).

http://www.thelocal.no/20150625/norway-to-let-7-yr-old-change-gender


Needless to say, that physiologically, at 7 a child is only beginning to experience the actions of hormones, and both male and female hormones are at work (all boys remember how they start getting breasts). So at that age a child is particularly vulnerable as to their gender identity. Allowing to switch gender at that age is like giving a suicidally inclined person a loaded gun.

I am not surprised at all. Norway is the same country, which ordered that the boys should sit down to urinate, just like the girls a few years ago:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/13/sweden-left-party-toilet-stand_n_1590572.html

Both Norway and Sweden are moving towards a genderless society, where there is no difference between the men and the women. In a few more years, there will be no men or women in these countries. There will be only androgynous humans.

It is so rediculus that Norway is becomming a big money machine which needs to steal children to feed itself. >:(
As per research children are kidnapping from those parents who were unstable, too young etc.,can't take care off,etc.
The kids are shipped off to wealthy childless couples for a handsome "handling fee", plus these families actually get paid by the government for "taking care" of the children.  :)

Didn't know about that. It's so ridiculous. That's just taking things too far and getting negative attention. Hope the Swedish party that proposed that was laughed out of power. It certainly would be anywhere else. But seems like the case in Norway was just one school with shared bathrooms though: http://www.wnd.com/2006/09/38125

That's just a lose - lose situation for all parties involved. Unless the parents are really abusive and not in their sound mind, taking a kid away from his/hers parents will hurt so much more than a loose tooth getting taken out or do so much more damage than the occasional light discipline for bad behaviour.

Norway has a peculiar child protection (barnevernet) system. At a most insignificant suspicion that a child has bee mistreated by its parents, the child will be taken by the sate from its parents and relocated to an undisclosed foster family. *The parents will then be presumed guilty until they prove that they are innocent, a process that can take up to several years. It does not matter if both parents and the child are not Norwegian citizens – they can even be tourists visiting the country for a couple of days, the process would still be the same.

http://rt.com/news/196532-norway-remove-child-tooth/

Two weeks ago a Russia family working in the North of Norway experienced just that. Their 5-year old son had a loose milk tooth, which the mother helped to remove. The child mentioned that at school and the teacher took the child home, suspecting abuse. The parents were getting worried when the child did not return from school in the evening, but became even more worried when they got summoned by the police to give statements. They were denied their request to see the child, and they still do not know where the child is. Child protection also expressed interest in the younger sister of the boy, but the parents managed to send he back to Russia to her grand-parents, while they remain in Norway for the legal battle to get their child back. All three are Russian citizens, so this is not just a case of kidnapping, but of an abduction of a foreign citizen.

Here is a 2011 case, where a Russia single father was imprisoned for his attempts of getting his Russian son back from CPS:

http://english.pravda.ru/society/stories/11-10-2011/119296-norway_children-0/

    According to Human Rights Alert Norway, a Norwegian human rights organization, child protection services take children from their parents every day, without investigation or court decisions. As many as ten children are forcefully separated from their parents in the country on a daily basis. In 2011, 50 children, who had been separated from their parents against their own will, committed suicide.

http://stanislavs.org/child-kidnapping-by-the-norwegian-state/

I dont think so. 10% of Swedes these days are muslims already (99% of those first generation immigrants or their children, native converts are rare). Just last year country recieved another 90 000 "refugees" (1% of its population), primarily from muslim countries.

To me it seems rather like deluded marxists realizing their utopic dreams in death throes. In couple of decades, all those social engineers and feminists will be dead. Sharia law is build around the very family/clan structure, that marxists are hellbent on destruction, therefore conflict is inevitable. The fact, that Northerners brought this cultural double death upon themselves is just icing on the cake.

I read somewhere that between 25% and 33% of all the children living in Norway will be abducted by the Barnevernet at some point of time before their 18th birthday. I have no sympathies with the Norwegian parents, as they are the ones who created this monster. But regarding children and parents with foreign citizenship, I believe that these countries should nuke Norway to shit, in order to stop this perversity.

According to Oscar's grandmother, who gave an interview to local Pskov newspaper, Norway may return Oscar (now 6, 5 when he was kidnapped by Norway) to his family (and at the same time, return the family to Oscar) towards the end of this months.

http://informpskov.ru/news/182162.html

I see. So that is what the Norwegian authorities say? Hmm, seeing is believing, so please keep us updated.

Here is a quite interesting article – really about the contrast between what the CPS say and what they do, and the lazy way the county committees (fylkesnevndene) accept this. And actually the courts are not much better:

•••••

Deficient rule of law in child protection cases in Norway

By Bjorn Bjoro


                                     – With present day practice,
                                      the CWS can get away with
                                      not acting in the
                                      best interest of the child.


•••••
Bjorn Bjoro (Bjørn Bjøro) is a consultant, previously in the employ of the Norwegian Child Welfare Services (CWS)*.
   This article was first published in Norwegian, with the title Mangelfull rettssikkerhet in the newspaper Vårt Land on 16th July 2015 and on the website Verdidebatt.no (http://www.verdidebatt.no/debatt/cat19/subcat24/thread11587609/#post_11587609) on the same day.
   The English version is published here with the kind consent of the author.
•••••


"The counties break the law" was the telling title of an article in the newspaper Vårt Land on 30 June, in the paper's coverage of the report (https://www.riksrevisjonen.no/en/Reports/Pages/CountySocialWelfareBoards.aspx) from Riksrevisjonen (Office of the Auditor General of Norway (https://www.riksrevisjonen.no/en/Pages/Homepage.aspx)) about the county committees which handle decisions involving compulsory measures and force in child protection cases. The National Audit Office's report, however, by and large limits itself to considering the long time it takes before the cases are processed, cf The county social welfare boards take too long to process child welfare cases (https://www.riksrevisjonen.no/en/ForMedia/PressReleases/Pages/CountySocialWelfareBoards.aspx).

The Audit Office, then, only takes up a limited part of the activities of the county committees (fylkesnemndene, called "the county social welfare boards" in the above article). Even so, the report shows that "the ministry does not ask for information which can reveal whether the quality of case handling in the county committees is satisfactory and creates trust, in the way required by the Child Welfare Act"(my translation)**. Certainly a serious matter, given that the Child Welfare Act §7-3 states explicitly that the case procedures of the county committees must be satisfactory and quick and must create confidence.

Oxford Research has recently carried out an analysis of part of the operation of the county committees. In an appendix to the report, informant reports by 12 parents relate their meetings with the county committees. The reports of how these parents have experienced the "rule of law" in actual practice in the county committees are not edifying reading. And they do not create confidence.

Regrettably, the scene presented agrees with my own experiences after having worked for 10 years in the Child Welfare Services (CWS) and later having acted as advisor in some child protection cases.

A lot of good work is carried out in the CWS but unfortunately too much of what is done is characterised by sundry opinions held by sosial workers and by weak professional competence. When the Child Welfare Services think they have a basis for considering taking over custody – and often before this stage – it is usual for the CWS to omit, systematically, positive aspects from their documents, thereby distorting reality by including as much as possible of whatever is negative.

In this way an incomplete and systematically skewed evidential picture is built up. The county committee is presented with this lopsided written material. Formally a county committee is a public body resembling a court. But usually there is no scrutinising of the evidence presented to find the truth behind what amounts to systematic manipulation. On the whole, the presentation of purported evidence is enough. The county committees therefore fall down fundamentally in guarding any rule of law. The seeming guardianship of due process is actually just formal, almost without any reality.

This is exacerbated by the practice of the CWS of engaging psychologists to write expert reports, psychologists whose relationship to the CWS becomes one of economic dependency. Many of them distort reality in the way they believe the buyer – the CWS – wants it to be for presentation in the county committee.

The contribution of a county committee is that of very rarely, and only to a superficial degree, engaging in depth in exposing the systematic manipulations and distortions. Anything like that is, by the way, a comprehensive and resource-demanding process. When considering whether to take a particular case to the county committee, the CWS often look to whether a decision in their favour in this case can increase the likelihood of their getting away with other pending cases too. When they are not given any necessary correction by the county committee, a result is that they do not mend their ways in other cases, but instead continue, on the basis of their experience.

With present day practice, the CWS can get away with not acting in the best interest of the child. The Child Welfare Services also get away with it when they choose not to use linkworkers and cultural bridge builders and do not reduce conflicts to achieve real and positive cooperation in the best interest of mother and children alike. Instead, the CWS choose, to a far too great extent, to plan for a breaking off of the biological bond between mother and child, and they are supported in taking over custody in the county committees.

Recently, 151 professionals have sent a letter of alarm about the Child Welfare Services to Solveig Horne, the Minister of Children, Equality and Social Inclusion. There is good reason for their alarm. A ray of light is that the Minister has taken the criticism seriously and there will be an effort to examine many aspects of the child protection system, including the question of rule of law.


– –


*  The official English title of the Norwegian government service handling child protection is the Child Welfare Services (CWS)
(cf Wikipedia: Child Welfare Services (Norway) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Welfare_Services_(Norway)))

**  The Child Welfare Act is the law covering child protection.


  

  

Here is a recent article by a Norwegian lawyer who challenges a couple of the central mumbo-jumbo phrases in child protection. This article is in French, it links to the original in Norwegian. (Unfortunately no English translation so far, but it may come.)

*

4 août 2015


L’ASE (Barnevernet) et les nouveaux habits de l’empereur

Par Erik Rolfsen, avocat



***
Cet article a été publié en norvègien dans le journal Tidens Krav (http://www.tk.no/meninger/barnevern/barnevernet-og-keiserens-nye-klar/o/5-51-90364) à Kristiansund le 27 juillet 2015. L'article est publié içi en français avec l'accord de l'auteur.
***


Barnevernet (en français : l’Aide Sociale à l’Enfance – ASE) fait un travail important et le fait souvent bien.

Mais Barnevernet fait aussi des erreurs. Ces erreurs ont d'énormes conséquences pour la vie de ceux qui sont impliqués: les deux parents et les enfants.

Pour éviter de telles erreurs et protéger les intérêts des parties privées, le système est non seulement très coûteux mais aussi peu approprié quand il s’agit de corriger Barnevernet lorsqu’une erreur est faite. Ceci est donc source de grande préoccupation.

Afin d’assurer une protection juridique à ceux qui sont touchés alors que Barnevernet retire la garde d’un enfant à ses parents, les parents ont droit à une assistance juridique (avocat payé par l’état) et à l’évaluation, par le tribunal, de la décision du retrait de l’enfant.

Au cours de ce processus, un expert psychologue va établir un rapport. Ainsi, des essais d’environ 3 jours sont mis en œuvre et financés par le ministère public, faisant intervenir les acteurs suivants: 3-4 avocats, deux membres du personnel de Barnevernet, un expert psychologue, un juge juridique et 2-4 autres juges.

S’il est fait appel du verdict, tous se rassemblent une nouvelle fois et ce, encore aux frais de l’état.

Si jamais les dépenses engagées ont conduit à une meilleure protection juridique pour les enfants et leurs parents, ce n’est pas le cas aujourd'hui.

Il y a deux facteurs particuliers qui font que le système ne fonctionne pas:

• Le terme «meilleur intérêt de l'enfant» est vide de sens
• Les experts sont embauchés et payés par l'une des parties, Barnevernet.

Ici, nous parlons des nouveaux habits de l'empereur: Beaux et coûteux tissus (lire les termes et le processus) vus de l’extérieur et irréprochables. En réalité, il n’y a que du vent et du spectacle.

Le terme «le meilleur intérêt de l'enfant» semble si juste et si bienveillant. Le problème est que, malgré le fait que «le meilleur intérêt de l'enfant» est un terme juridique et est utilisé dans le texte de la loi (Barnevernloven § 4-1), il a une teneur indéterminée. Il n'y a pas de critères objectifs et mesurables. En outre, on doit se demander qui est la personne la plus compétente pour évaluer «le meilleur intérêt de l’enfant» dans une situation donnée.

Dans les nombreux cas où les parents sont sujets à une toxicomanie grave, ont des diagnostics psychiatriques lourds ou font preuve de violence, il n’est pas difficile de justifier que «le meilleur intérêt de l'enfant» est que Barnevernet prenne soin de l’enfant.

Mais le terme est également utilisé dans les cas où ces conditions sont absentes. Les enfants sont retirés à leur parent biologique (le plus souvent la mère) même si elle ne fait pas usage de drogue, n’est pas une malade mentale ou qu’elle ne manifeste aucun comportement violent parce Barnevernet est d'avis que ce serait dans « le meilleur intérêt de l'enfant ».

Si la mère s’oppose au retrait de son enfant, Barnevernet engage un expert, généralement un psychologue, qui fera une enquête et émettra sa recommandation dans un rapport. L’expert est choisi, engagé et payé par Barnevernet. C’est Barnevernet qui introduit le psychologue en la matière, détermine le mandat de l'enquête et soumet ses documents (souvent plusieurs centaines de pages). Plus tard, l’expert rencontre la mère à 2 ou 3 reprises et observe la mère et l'enfant réunis 1ou 2 fois. Puis vient le rapport qui, presque systématiquement, soutient fermement la vision originale de Barnevernet.

Lorsque l'affaire est portée devant le « Fylkesnemda » (Tribunal spécial), le rapport est essentiel pour le résultat. Pas étonnant. Comment un tribunal, dirigé par un avocat, peut-il contredire un expert dans le domaine lorsqu’il s’agit de quelque chose d'aussi indéterminée que l'expression «le meilleur intérêt de l’enfant»?

Devant le tribunal, la mère présente ses témoins qui sont souvent des camarades, des frères ou sœurs ou ses parents, et peut-être une infirmière qui disent qu'elle est une bonne mère. Barnevernet a, en plus de ses propres employés, un spécialiste faisant preuve d’une ancienneté de 5 à 7 ans dans l'éducation.

La mère est abattue, et personne ne remet en question le fait que l'expert soit engagé et payé par Barnevernet.

L'expert sait que la mère ne va jamais commander un rapport à l'avenir pendant que Barnevernet d’une petite ville achète 5-10 de ces rapports par an.

Le tragi-comique est que, si le verdict est contesté en appel à la Cour de district, la même situation se répète. Le juge de la Cour de district donnera un poids décisif à ce même rapport et au témoignage de ce même expert. Le résultat est donc identique.

Des centaines de millions de couronnes sont déboursées pour les experts, avocats et juges alors qu'une grande partie des ressources de Barnevernet est utilisée pour mettre en œuvre des essais sans que l’on ait une protection juridique satisfaisante des enfants et de leurs parents contre les abus de la Barnevernet.

Ainsi s’est développée une industrie particulière, très profitable, appelée la Protection d'enfants.

Voilà sans doute pourquoi personne ne crie: L'empereur est nu!


*

Erik Rolfsen, avocat
Advokathuset Kristiansund, http://www.advokathuset-kristiansund.no
Tel : + 47 992 98 999, rolfsen@advokathuset-kristiansund.no

* * * * *

  

State Lets Police Take Teenagers Away From Parents If They Are Left Home Alone
http://countercurrentnews.com/2015/04/state-lets-police-take-teenagers/

http://news.yahoo.com/norway-accused-unfairly-taking-away-immigrant-children-073550920.html

  
The article Nemo1024 refers to above was originally published in The New York Times, Washington Post, San Francisco Chronicle, and some other places. The newspapers seem to have taken it away, but it can be found elsewhere.

Norway Accused of Unfairly Taking Away Immigrant Children (http://uk.businessinsider.com/ap-norway-accused-of-unfairly-taking-away-immigrant-children-2015-8?r=US&IR=T)
Business Insider UK, 26 August 2015

Norway Accused of Unfairly Taking Away Immigrant Children (http://news.yahoo.com/norway-accused-unfairly-taking-away-immigrant-children-073550920.html)
Yahoo News, 26 August 2015

The article stems from Associated Press, apparently written by someone working for them in Stavanger (on the south-west coast of Norway).

The link to the Yahoo posting is very welcome. The Yahoo posting has the advantage of having a lot of comments, valuable to read some of them. Many repeat the official version and have their own suggested explanations, very few have any insight, very many focus only on 'cultural differences' and that you should fit in when you are a visitor in another country, but the article's own focus is responsible for that line of reasoning.

Anyway, in spite of this: I seem to sense an increased attention to questions of child protection in several places, and more people are voicing informed objections to what is going on.

  

  

Two items from India:

*

Nandita Chaudhary and Jaan Valsiner:
Cultural sensibilities matter in parenting (http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/cultural-sensibilities-matter-in-parenting/article7562231.ece)
The Hindu, 21 August 2015

I have commented a bit on the article itself and about the newspaper The Hindu here (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7948).

*

Suranya Aiyar:
Save your child from UNICEF (http://dokument.r-b-v.net/india/save-your-child-from-unicef.pdf)
A study of Unicef's biased and false claims about Indian parents
August 2015

Part I:  Introduction
Part II:  Basic Statistical Errors
Part III:  Physical Abuse: Bias, Exaggeration and Rigged Statistics
Part IV:  Sexual Abuse: Bias, Distortion and Rigged Statistics
Part V:  Bias and Lies on Emotional Abuse and Girl Child Neglect
Part VI:  Misleading Parents and Manipulating Children
Part VII:  Conclusion


This is a revealing analysis, well worth reading. It is some 50 pages long, but not terribly compact and the font size is large, and parts can be read on their own. It starts off going into some details in a survey which Unicef has conducted in India, and which Aiyar criticises the statistics of heavily (in terms quite easily understandable to non-statisticians). Then the paper puts the survey and its planned use in India into the international / Western perspective of "child protection".

The paper's author Suranya Aiyar gives a short 'autobiography' on the page following the title page. For those who are not familiar with her name I can add that she is very active and vocal on Indian social and cultural issues. From a Norwegian point of view: She was the one to take the clearest and strongest action in the Bhattacharya case, so that the mother Sagarika Chakraborti after a while got the children back in India. Cf

Suranya Aiyar:
Understanding and Responding to Child Confiscation by Social Service Agencies
9 May 2012
http://www.pravasitoday.com/understanding-and-responding-to-child-confiscation-by-social-service-agencies

Petition to the Indian National Human Rights Commission: Indians want their government to guard against western CPS
16 October 2012
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7106
(first and second entry in the thread – down at the end of the first are 3 links, to the petition itself + to press announcement and appended material)

Signatories to the Petition to the Indian National Human Rights Commission:
The Confiscation of the Bhattacharya Children by Norwegian Authorities - A Case Study
12 October 2012
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7763

*

  

  
English version of the article which was given above in French:



15 September 2015


Child protection and the emperor's new clothes

By Erik Rolfsen
lawyer


***
The original of this article was published in Norwegian in the newspaper Tidens Krav (http://www.tk.no/meninger/barnevern/barnevernet-og-keiserens-nye-klar/o/5-51-90364) in Kristiansund on 27 July 2015, and in French (here (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7937) and here (http://www.mhskanland.net/page8/page269/page269.html)) on 4 August 2015. It is published here in English by the kind consent of the author.
Translation: Marianne Haslev Skånland
***

Barnevernet, the Norwegian Child Welfare Services (CWS)*, perform an important task and often carry it out well.

But the CWS also make mistakes. These mistakes often have enormous consequences for the lives of those affected, parents and children alike. It is therefore reason for concern that the system that is supposed to prevent such mistakes and guard the interests of the private parties is very expensive and at the same time ill suited to put right whatever Barnevernet (the CWS) might have done wrong.

When the authorities take a family's children into care, certain measures of legal protection are to become operative: the parents have the right to a lawyer, paid by the state, and a right to have the case tried before the courts. In the course of the process an expert psychologist is appointed who familiarizes himself** with the case and writes a report. As a result we have court cases – often running for three days – involving: 3-4 lawyers, two CWS employees, an expert psychologist, a judge who is a jurist, and 2-4 lay judges, often from child professions, all paid by the state. The judgment is frequently appealed, whereupon a similar bunch of people get together for a new round, again paid by the state.

If only this spending of money guaranteed security under the law for children and parents! That is not the way the system works today. There are particularly two obstacles to proper functioning of the system:

•   The expression 'the best interest of the child' has no content;

•   The professional experts are engaged and paid by one of the parties: the CWS (Barnevernet).

What we are witnessing here are the new clothes of the emperor: beautiful and expensive materials (read: expressions and processes) viewed from outside and quite irreproachable. In reality, it is hot air and playing to the gallery.

It sounds so fine, so right, to say 'in the best interest of the child'. The problem is that although 'in the child's best interest' indeed has the status of legal term and is found in the text of the law (the Child Welfare Act § 4-1), its content is undefined. There are no measurable, objective criteria. In addition, we should ask ourselves who is competent to decide what is the best for a child in a given situation.

In many cases of parents with serious addiction problems, serious psychiatric diagnoses or violent behaviour, it is not problematic to decide that a taking into care is in the best interest of the child. But the same concept is also used in cases where no such problems exist. Children are deprived of their biological parent (usually the mother) who is not a drug addict, a patient or a violent person, because the CWS hold that it will be best for the child.

If the mother resists transfer of care, the CWS engage an expert, usually a psychologist, who is to examine the case and come up with a report recommending some action. The expert is selected, engaged and paid by the CWS. The CWS instruct the psychologist about the case, decide what the mandate for his investigation is to be, and send him their case documents (often several hundred pages). As part of his work, he has 2-3 meetings with the mother and arranges one or two observations of mother and child together. Then comes the report, which practically always supports the opinion which the CWS held from the start.

When the case is heard by the County Committee (a court-like authority specially mandated to give decisions in child protection cases), the report is decisive for the outcome. No wonder, since how would a committee, headed by a legal professional, be able to run over an expert in the field of something as indeterminate as 'the best interest of the child'?

The mother's witnesses are usually her friends, her siblings and parents, maybe a public health nurse, who say she is a good mother. The CWS have their own witnesses, in addition to their own employees and an expert with 5-7 years of university education behind him and several years of experience. The mother doesn't stand a chance, and nobody questions the fact of the expert being engaged and paid by the CWS. The remuneration from such work tends to make up the larger part or at least a considerable part of the expert's income. The expert knows that the mother will never commission any report in future – the municipality (the CWS) commissions around 5-10 such reports a year.

Tragicomically, if the case is appealed to the district court, the same performance is repeated. The district judge will give decisive weight to the same report and the testimony of the same expert. So the outcome is the same.

Hundreds of millions of crowns are spent on experts, lawyers, committees and court processes, at the same time that a whacking part of the CWS resources is spent on preparing and taking part in committee and court procedures, without all this increasing to any degree the the parents' protection under a rule of law.

Something like an industry has developed, called 'child protection cases'.

That is probably the reason why nobody cries out: The emperor is naked!


--

*  The Child Welfare Services (CWS) is the official English title of the Norwegian government service handling child protection
(cf Wikipedia: Child Welfare Services (Norway) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Welfare_Services_(Norway)))

**  or 'herself', the psychologist being quite as often a woman.

  

  
Norway has a reputation of being humane and generous to refugees and asylum seekers. Well, here is an article about the way the administration of asylum applicants force out of the country - or try to force out - rejected applicants by cutting off money for living expenses. Fair enough, one might say - why don't they comply and quit Norway? Well, these are mothers whose children have already been taken into child protection care, and Norway refuses to let the children leave with their mothers. Instead, the children are candidates for adoption here. The article takes up the way the Directorate of Immigration takes no account of the totally inhumane way this separates mother and child – forever.

--------------------------------------
    


27 September 2015


Bjorn Bjoro:
A system that wears people down
– UDI director Frode Forfang should not only look at the Child Welfare Services.
He should examine his own system as well.


********

Bjorn Bjoro (Bjørn Bjøro) is a consultant, previously in the employ of the Norwegian Child Welfare Services (CWS).

A previous version of this article was published in Norwegian, with the title "Et system som stresser" (A system which creates stress) in the newspaper Vårt Land on 13th June 2015 and on the website Verdidebatt.no (http://www.verdidebatt.no/debatt/cat1/subcat6/thread11582479/#post_11582479) on the same day. It appeared in the context of a debate regarding the treatment in Norway of some mothers and children from other countries who apply for asylum.
   This English version of the article is published here with the kind consent of the author.

   The head of the Norwegian Directorate of Immigration, Mr Frode Forfang, has not responded to the article from June (cf the last paragraph below), nor has anything in the workings of the system been changed.

*

Some institutional names and abbreviations are well-known in Norwegian society but need a brief explanation for foreign readers:
   The Child Welfare Services (CWS) is the official English title of the Norwegian government service handling child protection (Wikipedia: Child Welfare Services (Norway) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Welfare_Services_(Norway))). The Norwegian Directorate of Immigration (UDI) is organised under the Ministry of Justice and Public Security. UNE is the Immigration Appeals Board.
(Official websites: The Ministry of Justice and Public Security (https://www.regjeringen.no/en/dep/jd/id463/), UDI (http://www.udi.no/en/), Appealing a decision (http://www.udi.no/en/word-definitions/appealing-a-decision/#link-1009)).

********



In an article in the newspaper Vårt Land on 3 June 2015, the director of the UDI Frode Forfang recommends that the municipalities be relieved of their responsibility for asylum seekers, this to be transferred to the state. This is sensible but it is not enough.

It will take away the power which the municipalities make use of today in order to stop inquiry into the care possibilities in the extended family in the countries from which the asylum seekers come. The backdrop lies in a diplomatic crisis with, among other countries, Nigeria, which refuses to issue travel documents when the UDI and UNE want to expel from Norway mothers who still have parental responsibility for, and visitation rights to, children who are under the care of the CWS in Norway. UNE admits that this will cut off nearly all contact with the children, who are culturally whitewashed in Norwegian foster homes. The children are prepared for later forced adoption.

In addition, the UDI and its director Mr Forfang take care to reduce the possibility these mothers have of caring for their children here, in that the mothers are only to have money for food, the amount set right down to the level of NOK 1,590 per month. They are not to buy clothes. They are not allowed money to call a lawyer or helpers to support them. They are not allowed money for travel to meet their lawyer. The UDI director knows this, because the organisation African Cultural Awareness (ACA) sent a letter to the Minister of Justice Mr Anders Anundsen, who had the UDI furnish an answer.


Incorrect

The UDI gave the Minister of Justice incorrect information but knew better, when UDI denied that the Norwegian authorities in affairs concerning foreigners in Norway have tried, through passing decisions, to prevent the mothers from following their case against the CWS and later through the court system. In a new letter to the Minister of Justice, the ACA has documented the concrete attempts of our authorities to do so.

The attacks by the UDI/UNE on mothers with scant resources are in violation of established human rights. The mothers do not have the means of having the decisions of UNE corrected by bringing their case before the courts. Having gone through the case documents in some large scale cases, I hold that particularly the committee heads of UNE exploit the fact that a mother facing Norwegian prices with as little as NOK 1,590 a month is not able to pay a lawyer to take the case to court. Free legal aid does not exist in these cases.

In one of the cases I have, after going through the total set of documents in the case, written a 43 pages long summary and analysis for the use of the mother's lawyer and others.

The short version is that a good mother was being systematically stressed by the UDI/UNE. They also continued, in spite of a written warning about the consequences. They therefore managed to produce a child protection case. The Child Welfare Services (CWS) did not use a cultural bridge-builder, who would have been able to explain and lessen the conflict. Nor did the CWS confront the UDI/UNE when these latter agencies caused damage. After some time the CWS took the child into care by force, with the use of police and transport by car and ferry of the mother to a psychiatric hospital. The hospital, however, found no reason to keep her there.


Visitation mother - child

Since the mother was helped by the organisation African Cultural Awareness (ACA), involving cultural bridge-building, the mother's visits with her daughter have been very positive. The CWS admit this. But the CWS offend against the law of child protection as well as the Public Administration Act by refusing to obtain information about the conditons in the mother's family in Nigeria. When she left, their circumstances were extremely difficult and seemed hopeless. But during the several years that have followed, her family back home has actually managed to improve their lot and now have a dependable and good life. A brother of the mother lives there and has a family, room in his heart and room in his large, new house. He wants to include mother and daughter in his own family, and see to it that the daughter is educated in a private school.

In accordance with the mother's wishes, and supported by her lawyer, ACA and myself, the police contacted the CWS. They totally refused any inquiry whatsoever. Earlier, the CWS had refused to check anything when another brother of the mother who now lives in Canada contacted them and offered to take over custody. This brother has a house and a full family, is a religious minister and a social worker, and has a good and stable income. The conduct of the CWS is appealed to the County Governor (Fylkesmannen), and there will be an investigation against the CWS.


Creating stress

The contribution of the UDI/UNE has been to demand that the mother should be sent out of the country, that she is not to take part in the ongoing process and that she is to be stressed and worn down as before by receiving money only for food.

UDI director Frode Forfang should not only direct his attention to the Child Welfare Services. He should examine his own system as well. Will you, Mr Forfang, as an immediate measure see to it that these mothers are granted the same possibilities that other asylum seekers have, or will you continue to inflict pain on them?


  
  

  
This thread has perhaps exhausted its potential and can be allowed to recede naturally. But as a last batch of information from me, let me refer to the latest "development" in the Czech case of Eva Michaláková's children (it is mentioned here in this thread on p 4 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=828129.msg9684579#msg9684579), and discussed extensively on pp 5–14 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=828129.80)). It is quite illustrative of the horrid situation in Norway for victims of the Child Welfare Services (the official name in English of our child protection establishment, our "child protection services" - the CPS). I take the opportunity of summarising a little of the general state of affairs as well.

This is the news:
The planned case either in the County Committee or a district court has taken place and there has just been a decision/judgment.

The decision is (of course) that her sons are not to be allowed to return to her or anybody else in their Czech family. They are to stay permanently with their fosterers in Norway and the younger boy is to be adopted by these Norwegian foster "parents". Eva Michaláková is deprived of what in Norwegian law is called "parental responsibility", which is a kind of euphemism for "parental rights", meaning that she is no longer their mother nor has she any connection at all with them in any legal sense.

*

The result of the case has been published widely in the Czech Republic and has reached some other countries, but (of course) been largely ignored by the established Norwegian press, which is very state subservient, as is the Norwegian people: full of self-satisfied trust in the supreme wisdom and competence and humane, civilised decency of their authorities.

Prague to send protest note to Oslo over Michalak case on Oct 7 (http://www.ceskenoviny.cz/zpravy/prague-to-send-protest-note-to-oslo-over-michalak-case-on-oct-7/1266637)
České noviny, 6 October 2015

The Norwegian authorities have had the insolence to "inform" the public that Mrs Michaláková can freely talk/write publicly about the case without risking punishment. This is deliberately misleading. It is correct that she probably does not risk being prosecuted in a criminal court in Norway (although it depends quite a bit on what she publishes). But that is not the issue. She has been repeatedly criticised by the CPS for going public and that has been used against her all along, trying to make her believe that she would fare better in the courts and in the CPS's eyes if she kept quiet. Most of all they have criticised her for publishing pictures of herself together with her sons. In Norwegian ideology, it is so terrible for children that their pictures are published, and this is certainly used against her by the CPS, the County Committee and the courts. When that is used as an argument why the sons "cannot" return to their mother, the Norwegian authorities still hold that it is not "punishment".

A further point should be clearly understood about making the world know about one's CPS case: the argument that this "proves" that one is inconsiderate to the children and therefore not a suitbale parent, is not real. None of the usual arguments of the CPS are real, except those relating to cases of factual, proven maltreatment. In all the psycho-babble cases (and they are the majority), the CPS simply uses against parents anything they think the courts will believe is a valid and serious enough "defect". Usually a claim that such-and-such "failure" on the part of a parent is seriously bad for a child is backed up by scientific-sounding psycho-babble. In Eva Michaláková's case, if she had not tried to find help by making her case public in the Czech community, the CPS would have used, even invented, something else to lay at her door. Eva Michaláková would not have got her children back any more than she now has, if she had shut up completely. – Generally, the CPS has managed to make our jurists (judges and lawyers) believe in the mumbo-jumbo about the harmfulness of all publicity about child protection cases, therefore the CPS delights in being able to use that argument in court. Nevertheless, they have other ammunition (they always do, regardless of how innocent and ordinary parents are), and they would really prefer CPS cases to be entirely anonymous, that is: to scare every parent away from publicising the case. If nobody at all knows any facts that the family can tell about the realities of their family life (most families can show, even prove, that a lot of what the CPS claims, is untrue), then the CPS would then have a completely free run with the parents and can stigmatise them completely. That is why the CPS and our authorities generally are working hard pushing for legislation which will more or less muzzle critics (the affected families and anybody else) of concrete CPS cases. They have become alarmed at the number of families who make use of the internet for telling the public about the treatment they have received at the hands of the CPS, accordingly they have had quite a bunch of jurists working for some time on legislation to restrict the freedom of speech; it will apparently no longer be permissible to publish concrete facts and names of people involved in CPS cases just in order to create "an opinion" in the population. Only publishings which are deemed to be "journalistic" will be permitted to give concrete details. The state's legal experts have discussed at length how to muzzle the population and hope to worm through without this restriction they have come up with being set aside by Article 10 (free speech) of the European Convention of Human Rights.

*

The Norwegian authorities have also apparently "informed" the outraged Czech public and authorities that Mrs Michaláková can appeal the case to a higher court. Ah, but the present decision claims that her sons have been away for so long that they are now "attached" to their foster "parents" (the official public ideology of psycho-babble) and therefore it would be so terrible for them to be "torn away" from these fosterers. What of the time when they were torn away from their parents? Nothing is ever said about the trauma such an action by the CPS exposes children to. The CPS and the courts always try to prolong endlessly the time they keep children in CPS hands, the cases drag on endlessly, until just such a preposterous claim as the present one is made. So what are Mrs Michaláková's chances in an appeal case, when even more months and years have passed?

Some Norwegian authorities have apparently also made the Czechs believe that children would not or could not be adopted away if either a parent or relatives of the parents wanted them. The Czechs have believed this and are furious. – This will hopefully teach the Czechs not to believe anything the Norwegian authorities say about child protection matters or the excellent safeguards of the courts. Lies are extremely frequent in this field and the courts support the CPS "expert" decisions almost mechanically. All victims of the Norwegian or other Western nations' CPS know it too, but it is extremely difficult to make foreign nations believe that the authorities of "civilised welfare states" of the West lie their face.

*

The Czech authorities have reacted very properly and quite strongly. They have had very serious meetings on government level, have sent a protest note, as the above article says, and there was actually also a suggestion of expelling the Norwegian ambassador. This last suggestion fell because it was felt that a total diplomatic break between the Czech Republic and Norway would prevent any further dialogue (cf the article in České noviny). – In the idea of dialogue the Czechs are too optimistic. Norway will not have any real dialogue about the case regardless, dialogue which might lead to Norway letting go of these children, because it would be a powerful precedent leading to a deluge of other parents and children demanding to be reunited.

All Norway will do, is to "inform" the Czechs endlessly about the perfect Norwegian system of child protection and the excellence of our courts, just the way Norwegian embassies in other countries do when Norway has confiscated children of their nations. One would hope that this case will teach the Czechs not to believe in the soft soap Norway always spreads through its embassies around the world. Official Norway and most of the Norwegian population are ridden by ideology, and any common sense about children and family is out the window long ago.

There is nothing to hope for, neither in "dialogue" nor in the legal process in Norway. The only possibility is continued and unstinted effort to condemn and make public everything about these cases and the ideology behind them, and even that effort will only work in the long run and, in individual cases, only accidentally. It may also make some people in Norway wake up a little if countries whose citizens are affected manage to boycott Norway in some way which affects Norwegian economy or pride. In the Indian case (next paragraph, and discussed back on p 4 of this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=828129.60)), there was a demonstration in Calcutta of about 6,000 people and a movement to avoid the Norwegian company Telenor for phone services. Indians are now sending letters of support to the Czech embassy in New Delhi and of criticism to the Norwegian embassy there. The Czech Republic has withdrawn an official invitation (see below). All such actions are useful.

When it comes to "disciplining" devastated parents – and foreign nations trying to help them, Norway holds the children as hostages and the state has given the CPS full powers to do whatever they choose. They do not respond to arguments from foreign nations, nor to pressure. Even the pressing concern, on prime ministerial level, from India could not make the Norwegian government just decide to set aside the crazy decisions of the leader of Stavanger CPS in the well-known Bhattacharya case. At long last Norway let the children go, but only to their father's brother, and only after succeeding in putting the father and mother at loggerheads. It took much effort and very energetic helpers, e.g. the local child protection unit back in Calcutta, before the children were finally returned to their mother Sagarika. On hearing the news of this, the Stavanger CPS leader said that he would never again allow confiscated children out of Norway. He and the Norwegian official children's ombudsman at the time also gave newspaper interviews where they asked the Norwegian government department for child affairs to help local CPS offices in trouble with the press and foreign nations, because the poor CPS workers could not handle diplomatic troubles. The Norwegian government responded positively to this: They will step in and protect CPS agencies and more or less take over the handling of foreign states.

In a case concerning Turkish children, a Norwegian municipality (Stavanger again, but that is fairly accidental) apparently paid out half a million crowns (≈ EUR 50-60,000) to an agent who kidnapped the children back again from Turkey, where a court case running had commanded Norway to bring them out (the foster parents, helped by the Norwegian CPS and god knows who else, held them secretly). The Norwegian foster "father" in the case had already been accused of sex abuse of two foster girls previously in the household and has later been found guilty of sex abuse (cf The iron hand that rocks the cradle (http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page225/page225.html)).

In a case concerning a Polish girl, the local Norwegian CPS, backed by the authorities, actually went to court in Poland to attempt to have the girl extradited back to Norwegian CPS care, in spite of everything the girl hefself wanted! Cf
Judgment in Poland: a nine-year-old girl NOT to be extradited to Norway (http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page229/page229.html)

*

A very appropriate reaction in Prague to the present case has been to withdraw the invitation to the Norwegian ambassador to be present at a solemn celebration on 28 October, which was the day the independent state of Czechoslovakia was created in 1918.

Norwegian Ambassador Not Welcomed at Czech Presidential Seat (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/10/08/world/europe/ap-eu-czech-norway-protest.html?_r=2)
New York Times, 8 October 2015

This, then, is what finally draws a little bit of interest in a couple of fairly limp Norwegian newspaper articles, not the destruction of a Czech family and the literal abduction of two children from their family, but the diplomatic-political standing of our ambassador in Prague:
Comment on articles in VG and Dagbladet (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=35932#p35932)

The press representative at the Norwegian Foreign Department says that they see no reason why decisions in child protection cases should affect our bilateral relationship to the Czech Republic! No, I am sure they don't. This too exposes more than clearly the Norwegian ideology about the needs of children.

*

It is also to be hoped that this will teach the Czechs not to let Norway give them "developmental aid" in the form of sending CPS people down to "teach the Czechs" how to protect children. But their social services have something brewing already. A speech in Prague (on the occasion of the demonstration against Norwegian child protection on 30 May of this year) by the very perceptive Vaclav Klaus Jr. brings out this point, and also puts the Norwegian CPS misery in international perspective:

Václav Klaus Jr. - education expert speaks against stealing children by governement (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ2USkLWSug)
NorskoKradeDěti NorwayStealsChildren, 1 June 2015

(There are several other videos about the Czech case that can accessed by clicking into the poster's name NorskoKradeDěti NorwayStealsChildren.)

  
  

Turn to page 10 of the following report from Norwegian Statistics Agency and study diagrams 2.2 and 2.3. The numbers are based on 2009 data.
http://www.ssb.no/a/publikasjoner/pdf/rapp_201139/rapp_201139.pdf

These diagrams show the number of children under Barnevern "measures", divided by country of origin. Diagram 2.2 shows children, who were born outside of Norway, while diagram 2.3 shows children, who were born in Norway, but who have one or both foreign national parents.

The number in parenthesis is the total number of children from this or that county. While the bars represent the number of children per 1000.

And some good (yet mixed) new relating to the case in the OP, with which I started this thread.

http://www.murmansk.kp.ru/daily/26412/3286247/

Little Oscar was returned to his family (and, conversely, the family was returned to Oscar). It happened around 28th of July this year, after the boy was hidden away in a "foster" family for 10 months.

But, the family decided to stay in Norway and will not be taking their child to Murmansk. The article above angles the case as follows: Barnevern graciously decided to return the child to his parents, despite what the court ruling (not to return) seemed to indicate. I really hope that the decision to stay will not prove to be a tragic one in the future...

What these 10 months of separation has done to the 6-year-old kid, is that he started to forget Russian language. The mother's sister said that during a Skype meeting the child had difficulty understanding her, and that the parents even had to translate for him at times. It seems that Oscar will be learning Russian anew together with his little sister. The aunt, with whom little girl was living during this time, says that the little girl remembers the day when her brother was taken away, how three women came, and how her mother was crying. The aunt considers taking the girl to Norway so that she'll reunite with her brother again. (I hope this will not lead to dire consequences for both!)

oh. haha i never imagined this place to be like this. But i think there a point to this law. It a psyochological challenge for parents in this place. and maybe this process also helped a lot of young kids.

This is very good news indeed. It is a relief that Oscar is given his freedom from the CPS and foster care and can at long last go back to his family. – Deprived of his family for a milk tooth ...

I agree that staying on in Norway is not a safe thing for the family to do and taking Oscar's sister back here from Murmansk means an added danger. The way Norway has placed Oscar in a position where he must re-learn Russian is of course a clear sign that the child protective services do not value his bonds to his family, they never do and we knew that anyway. Whether it is under the circumstances the best for them to live in Norway after all, they must judge for themselves. It is easy for us to say "Go away!", it may not be easy for them. But certainly the CPS would more than likely love to get their hands on both children, and the family is on record with the CPS forever. So let us just hope.

In practical terms, at Oscar's age it will be no trouble getting fluent, native, in Russian again. Luckily.

 

This is retarded beyond belief. Why should the family stay in Norway? There is always a chance of the Barnevern returning and kidnapping Oscar once more. Murmansk can't be that bad after all. And even more worryingly, they are planning to take his 3-year old sister as well to Norway. If Barnevern again kidnaps these kids, then I'll be blaming the parents.

  
Unfortunately, kydranel, that is not the way it is in reality. This is no game of psychological vigilance, nor are the results of the CPS taking children into care positive or saving. On the contrary, both foster care and institutional care by the CPS have devastatingly bad results for children in all reliable statistics in the Western world, even when compared with children who live under the same conditions or worse than the children who are taken, but with their own families. You would do well to read more about it, without speculating too much until you know more. Why not start with some of Christopher Booker's articles about the activities of the British child protection 'services'?:

British press discovers the child 'protection' racket? (http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page130/page130.html)
  
You don't have to believe anything I say, just click into Booker's articles in The Telegraph and the Daily Mail. Booker is a very respected, senior reporter.
  

  
 
Yes, Bryant, it is a big chance to take. The parents believe what they want to believe: that the CPS action must have been some kind of mistake, and now things are in order again. Many Norwegians (and other immigrants here) do the same. They reason with their emotions, not with their rational sense and the information that is available. Those who have been incredibly lucky and excaped with their children to some other country which does not hand them back to Norway, keep planning to go back, and often do so when the case has seemingly calmed down. But the case has not died. The CPS people have not forgotten it, nor the municipality's lawyers and other authorities.

Our local administrations still devote extremely much time preventing anybody they can from escaping the CPS, however much time and money it takes to get them back and punish the parents. The situation just now is that all Norwegian districts have enough troubles, one would think, with people from everywhere pouring into the country to seek asylum and having to be quartered and fed and interviewed and registered. The newspapers are full of articles about the CPS having to be strengthened to take care of all the children coming in (the majority coming now are young, single men coming alone, but Norwegian ideology persists in calling everybody under 18 children). It still does not make the CPS any less hyperactive towards all those who seek to escape from their care. They just ask for more money and more personnel.

An example: Just a few days ago a German-Ukrainian family from Bergen, whose two daughters had been taken by the CPS and had for 6 months or so been placed in a temporary, emergency foster home in Moss south of Oslo, managed to get hold of the children and drive out of the country. They evidently used their own car driving south, though. When children have been taken by the CPS or are even under their attention, such items as the number of the family's car will be registered by the border posts and ferry companies. This family's car number "plinged" when they passed the border to Sweden and Denmark, and they were taken by the Danish police down on Fyn (the island between Copenhagen and Jutland, where they were headed to drive down to Germany). The Danish police cooperate willingly and totally without misgivings with Norway, of course. The parents were arrested and the daughters returned to the Norwegian CPS. The CPS lawyer said that this was an extremely serious offence on the part of the parents. The parents were put in detention in Denmark, and will remain imprisoned until they are extradited to Norway. – Lots of newspaper articles about the case, of a 'cops-and-robbers' type, entirely sympathetic to the authorities:

Etterlyser sort bil etter at to barn ble bortført i Moss (http://www.oblad.no/nyhet/ostfold/etterlyser-sort-bil-etter-at-to-barn-ble-bortfort-i-moss/s/5-68-116138) (A wanted notice out for a black car after two children have been abducted in Moss)
Østlandets Blad, 12 November 2015  at 11:21 a.m.

Dansk politi: - Glad for å kunne hjelpe jentene (http://www.moss-avis.no/nyheter/moss/dansk-politi-glad-for-a-kunne-hjelpe-jentene/s/5-67-181972) (Danish police: - Glad to be able to help the girls)
abc News, 12 November 2015, at 7:21 p.m.

    
  

  
In this last case, that of a German father and Ukrainian mother fleeing from Norway and being arrested in Denmark:

The legislation making it illegal to take one's children out of Norway when they have been taken by the cnild protection services on a 'temporary, emergency measure' which has not yet been confirmed by the County Committee or a court, has not yet been implemented. It seems to have passed through the parliament for legislation, but is not yet in effect (this sometimes takes a while). So, the Norwegian police at first called on the Danish police to arrest the parents and send the children back to the emergency placement in Norway (the emergency had already lasted for 6 months), which the Danish police duly did. Then the Norwegian police sat down to look at the law and came to the conclusion that what the couple had done was not illegal. So they told Denmark to let the parents out of jail again. – The tragedy is that there is no question of the children being given back to the parents, of course; it is taken for granted that the children were 'saved' by being sent back to the CPS. I expect the children are now moved to a secret address and kept strictly from communicating with their parents or others who could pass on information.

Foreldrene skal slippes fri (http://www.nrk.no/ostfold/foreldrene-skal-slippes-fri-1.12656904)  (The parents are to be set free)
De to foreldrene som ble arrestert på Fyn etter å ha tatt med seg barna sine fra Moss sist torsdag har ikke gjort noe straffbart, har politiet funnet ut.  (The two parents who were arrested on Fyn after having taken their children with them from Moss last Thursday were not doing anything illegal, is what the police have found out.)
nrk Østfold, 16 November 2015

"Planen var å hente de to foreldrene i morgen, avhøre dem og fremstille dem for varetektsfengsling. Barna er tilbake hos Barnevernet."  (The plan was to fetch the two parents tomorrow, take them for questioning and ask the court to put them in jail pending trial. The children are back with the child protective services.)

"Det er fremmet et lovendringsforslag for Straffelovens §261 for Stortinget, som sannsynligvis vil gjøre dette straffbart på nyåret." (A change to the Criminal law §261 has been proposed in Parliament, which will probably make it criminal over the New Year.)

Fremskrittspartiet (The Progress Party) was, 15-20 years ago, the one party that, under the leadership of parliamentary representative John Alvheim in such matters, took the side of CPS victims. They even presented a parliamentary proposal to amend the law and several matters of practice connected with the CPS in 1995/96 (it was turned down with contempt by the other parties, of course). Around 2005, however, they had completely changed their tune and are now as cruel as everyone else. The ministry concerned with CPS matters even have the cabinet secretary, and she is just about the worst I can remember, is apparently unable to think for herself and does and says exactly what her ministry's bureaucrats instruct her to say. – Here we have a rather triumphant parliament member of the Progress Party 'promising' that even tighter dictatorship is coming very soon:

 – Vi tetter smutthull i loven (http://www.nrk.no/ostfold/_-vi-tetter-smutthull-i-loven-1.12657055)  (We are closing loopholes in the law)
Det skal bli slutt på at foreldre lovlig kan bortføre barna til utlandet etter at Barnevernet har gjort akuttvedtak, sier Ulf Leirstein i Stortingets justiskomité.  (There is going to be an end to parents being legally able to abduct the children to another country after the CPS has made an emergency decision, says Ulf Leirstein in the parliamentary justice committee.)
nrk Østfold, 17 November 2015

  

  
People in India have shown support for the Czech mother Eva Michaláková and her two sons. Led by a determined Suranya Aiyar, they have sent a letter of support to the Czech embassy in Delhi and a letter of complaint to the Norwegian embassy there, and have sent out a press release about this.

The publicity and support initiative taken in India re the Czech case
Press Release: Concerned Indians stand with Czech Republic in yet another Norway foster case (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=35966#p35966)
New Delhi, 14 October 2015

The letter of support to the Czech embassy in New Delhi from Indians who observe with concern the actions of Norwegian 'barnevernet' in the Czech case (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=35967#p35967)
New Delhi, 9 October 2014

The letter to the Norwegian embassy in New Delhi from Indians who observe with concern the actions of Norwegian 'barnevernet' in the Czech case (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=35968#p35968)
New Delhi, 9 October 2015


At the end of October, there was a large celebration at the Czech embassy in New Delhi in honour of their country's independence, and Mrs Aiyar was invited to it. (Cf my posting on 13 October above: The similar invitation in Prague to the Norwegian ambassador was withdrawn: Norwegian Ambassador Not Welcomed at Czech Presidential Seat). Mrs Aiyar brought with her and presented to the Czech ambassador a large card of congratulations, shaped like a heart, which on the "heart side" had a message of thanks to the Czech president Miloš Zeman for his support of Michaláková's family.
  

 

Pictures !  ;D

http://image.r-b-v.net/czech-long-live-liten.jpg

http://image.r-b-v.net/czech-thank-you-president-liten.jpg

http:///image.r-b-v.net/czech-suranya-aiyar-thank-you-president-liten.jpg

http://image.r-b-v.net/czech-suranya-aiyar-thank-you-president-2-liten.jpg

http:///image.r-b-v.net/czech-suranya-aiyar-long-live-liten.jpg

(How to add images?)

Obvious violations of human rights.

Pleace, sign this petition!

"THE BODNARIU FAMILY! THEIR CHILDREN WERE TAKEN AWAY ON CHARGES OF CHRISTIAN INDOCTRINATION"

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/christian-family-persecuted

  
Here is a little that I found about the Rumanian / Norwegian family which the petition in the posting above is concerned with:

The five children of a Rumanian family taken by Barnevernet (the child protection services, CPS) in Norway

The family Bodnariu lives in Naustdal on the west coast of Norway, north of Bergen. There are many websites describing the case in Rumanian, although the case is only a few days old. Since the children appear to have been taken on grounds of religious raising (the CPS call it "religious indoctrination"), Christian websites are awake to the case.

Marius & Ruth Bodnariu, a Christian family persecuted in Norway! (The English version) (https://popaspentrusuflet.wordpress.com/2015/11/19/marius-ruth-bodnariu-a-christian-family-persecuted-in-norway-the-english-version/)
Popas pentru suflet, Christian Ionescu, 19 November 2015

"I am writing in support of my brother, Bodnariu Marian Constantin (Marius), a Romanian citizen, his wife Ruth Johanne Bodnariu, a Norwegian citizen, and their 5 children (Eliana, Naomi Matthew, John and baby Ezekiel who is only three months old) with joint citizenship in Romania and Norway."

"This past Monday, November 16th, Child Welfare Services (Barnevernet) “kidnapped” the two oldest children (Eliana and Naomi) from school without the knowledge of their parents.    Barnevarnet, accompanied by police, then came to the Bodnariu home and forcibly took custody of the two older boys (Matthew and John); leaving a devastated Ruth at home with only three month old Ezekiel while Marius was at work. Marius promptly came home from work to understand what was taking place and, together with Ruth, visited the police station and Barnevernet to resolve the situation.  Because Ruth was crying and devastated by the events, Barnevernet and four policemen showed up at their family home on Tuesday, November 17, without any court order or documentation, and also took 3 month old Ezekiel on the stated grounds that the mother posed a danger to her child."

The article goes on to describe with some insight the general activities of Barnevernet (although the writer does not seem informed about similar actions in the other countries of the Western world nor quite of the very many ethnic Norwegian families affected, although it is quite right that foreigners are over-represented):

"What happens in Norway via the Barneverent, under the guise of “child welfare,” is outrageous and unfathomable!  Children are considered property of the state; a premise utilized by the Barnevernet to abduct children and place them in foster family care for any unchecked/unregulated/unaudited reason as upheld by the Barnevernet. A quick search on the internet will yield results highlighting hundreds of cases of abuse and testimonies from affected families. The Barnevernet has a history of prevalently focusing their efforts on immigrant families or on families in which one of the parents is of a different nationality (as in my brother’s case, Romanian)."

*

Norway Return the children to Bodnariu Family! (https://www.facebook.com/Norway-Return-the-children-to-Bodnariu-Family-744234959015965/?fref=nf)
Blog on facebook, November 2015 –

*

Norvegia: cinci copii de origine română preluați de Protecția Copilului, de la o familie din zona Bergen (http://www.jurnaldenord.info/social/cinci-copii-de-origine-romana-preluati-de-protectia-copilului-din-norvegia-de-la-o-familie-din-bergen/)
Jurnal de Nord, Publicatie Romaneasca din Norvegia, 20 November 2015

This publication has a page in English and one in Norwegian too, but this article has not (not yet) been translated.

*

Sustinem Familia Bodnariu Marius si Ruth si cei cinci copii ai lor – alaturati-va acestei familii (https://rodiagnusdei.wordpress.com/2015/11/19/sustinem-familia-bodnariu-marius-si-ruth-si-cei-cinci-copii-ai-lor-alaturati-va-acestei-familii/)
agnus dei, english + romanian blog, 19 November 2015


  

  

When Suranya demonstrated in Delhi

Another event in India in connection with the Czech case:

Shortly after the letters to the Czech and the Norwegian embassies in New Delhi were sent and Suranya Aiyar was invited to the celebration at the Czech embassy, the Norwegian Foreign Minister was to visit New Delhi. An energetic Mrs Aiyar followed up by a very imaginative and courageous demonstration. The letters had been signed by a group, but this time she chose to demonstrate single-handed.

Suranya has told us how her day went:

On the day that the Norwegian Foreign Minister Børge Brende was visiting India, she fitted out her car with large posters or banners against the Norwegian child protection system (photos will follow). She drove around Delhi showing them, then parked her car close to the Norwegian embassy, where there was to be a lunch reception in honour of the Foreign Minister.

Guests coming to the reception could see the car, and so could the embassy staff. Complaints were made by the embassy to the police about the banners on her car and in a while the police arrived and asked her kindly to go away. Right – she drove off, but after driving around some blocks she returned.

While this was going on she posted on facebook, and had some 130 followers, mostly Scandinavians and Czechs (remember she sent her letters to the two embassies and to Czech media previously and got quite a few contacts in Czechia), cheering her and sharing the photos, and joining in the criticism of the child protection services.

When she kept coming back, the police, after having given her three warnings to take herself off, brought her to the police station.

The police, after asking to be explained what she was demonstrating about, offered to escort her to the embassy to deliver her memorandum. So they all went back to the embassy, where a memorandum was handed over.

Altogether Suranya had been able to demonstrate for about four hours around Delhi and at the Norwegian embassy. At the end of the day there were over 150 people on facebook cheering and congratulating the effort, mostly Scandinavians.

She sent out a press release:

***

PRESS RELEASE 2 November 2015

Protesting against visiting Norwegian Foreign Minister Borge Brende, an activist, Suranya Aiyar, is driving around Delhi with the slogan “Norway Steals Children!” “Boycott Norway!”. Attached are photos [on facebook].

Under Norwegian laws child protection authorities can permanently remove children from parents, even of foreign nationals on holiday or short term work assignments there.

Aiyar, who has been campaigning against this form of child protection for some years, says that children are removed on frivolous and, often, racist grounds from innocent parents. Of particular concern to her and her supporters is the refusal of Norway to return such children even to extended family in their home countries.

In a case that occurred a few years ago with a Bengali family in Norway, the children were returned only after high level intervention by the Indian [authorities] and recently in a similar case of a Czech family, the Norwegian authorities have, so far, refused to repatriate such children to their extended family in Czechia and instead placed them for forced adoption to Norwegians. Norway has come under criticism from several countries for unjustifiably removing children from their parents.

***

The press release was quickly picked up and commented on on the website of Sirf News:
Activist protests Norwegian ‘child snatching’ practice (http://sirfnews.com/activist-protests-norwegian-law/)
Sirf News, 2 November 2015

Along with the supporting Scandinavians on facebook, the story was also picked up by a Brazilian group protesting the case of a Brazilian mother who took refuge in the Brazilian embassy in Oslo (cf Brazil's Embassy helps mother and child against abuse from the child protection services (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7423) and Children confiscated from parents in Norway and Sweden (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=34182#p34182)).

We really must pay tribute to Suranya's resourcefullness and good courage to stand up for children's and their families' rights.

  

PICTURES ! PICTURES !  ;D

http://image.r-b-v.net/suranya-aiyar-norway-steals-children.jpg

http://image.r-b-v.net/suranya-aiyar-norway-steals-children-4.jpg

http://image.r-b-v.net/suranya-aiyar-norway-steals-children-3.jpg

http://image.r-b-v.net/suranya-aiyar-norway-steals-children-2.jpg

 :)

  
A demonstration in Oslo on Saturday 5 December 2015, against 'Barnevernet' - the child protection 'service':

Some
photos (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=36235#p36235)
Videos (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=221&t=8087)

  

When Russia is going to attack Norway? Thanks  :)

Never. And, please, disregard that "Occupied" propaganda serial recently aired in Norway.

There is no need to attack a country which is having a population of less than 4 million, and where the males were emasculated decades ago. Norway will be Muslim majority in a few decades time. Once that happens, I hope that the child kidnapping will end and the LGBT lobby which is behind this drama will be exterminated.

Nuke scandanavia

Howdy people !
I've been recently digging into the CPS disaster and read this whole thread very thoroughly.
No one mentioned this initiative from 2012 signed by lawyers, ex-judges and other sur mainly from Sweden. It does't  seem to have had any effect yet, but these are actual people concerned families can  reliably turn to.
http://www.nkmr.org/docs/Report_to_the_European_Parliament_Petitions_Committee.pdf
Good luck and don't give up this has to end!

  
Hello Fileanthropist, thank you from all of "us" for your encouragement! Good motto: Don't give up, this has to end!

You are certainly right that the initiative from the Nordic Committee for Human Rights (Nordisk Komité for Menneskelige Rettigheter) ought to have been mentioned. I know several of the people who signed their petition well, both Swedes and Norwegians. (They are not all members of the Committee.) There have been several other similar initiatives too in the Nordic countries. Our authorities - governments and bureaucracies - certainly know about them and have had every opportunity to take up the information they have provided, but it is unfortunately no accident that they do not; they know that their whole construction of "child protection" would topple if they were to listen.

Yes, the people on the list - certainly the ones I know - are reliable, but like the rest of us they have no actual power to stop the family-destructive cases and activities. Many receive cries of help from ever new persecuted families, but legislation and practice roll on ever more destructively, so it is practically impossible to help in individual cases, except if the family is able to flee, far away, in good time before the CPS gets their claws into them. I have come to believe that the only thing which has a hope of achieving a change in the long run may be publicising, especially bringing matters to the attention of people in countries which are not yet totally in the grips of the Western world's way of thinking.

(I was a vice-chairman of the NCHR/NKMR for some years, so I know a lot about their work. They have been active from the middle of the 1990s and are on the "right side", certainly. Like many NGOs working with difficult problems, however, and certainly like a stream of little organisations which have started out hopefully to combat CPS atrocities, they have had plenty of internal disagreements and worse, and a number of us left over questions of money and policy, and truth versus lies. They have since reorganised their website and done away with the old addresses to probably several thousand articles, so that even more links to their articles no longer function, which spoils a great deal of work done. - I just tell you this, it is no secret; it does not mean that I do not value the work done.)
  

  
Some news:

There have been several demonstrations regarding the CPS's removal of 5 children of a Norwegian/Romanian family in Norway:

Christian Family Whose 5 Kids Were Seized by Norway Planning International Protests (http://www.christianpost.com/news/christian-family-5-children-seized-norway-government-biblical-teachings-plan-international-protests-152321/):
"The Facebook post also explains that supporters are working to secure the ability to protest in other major cities in the United Kingdom, Ireland, United States, Belgium, Spain, Netherlands and even in Norway."

Demonstration in Bucuresti on 19 December 2015 (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=36321#p36321) (fine posters, photos, about 600 people)
Demonstration in Madrid on Boxing Day (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.999822206758066.1073741856.554185501321741) (fine photos)
Demonstration planned in London on 8 January 2016 (http://newsnetcrestin.blogspot.ro/2015/12/protest-oficial-la-ambasada-norvegiei.html)

Something about the case – as usual it starts with one accusation, then the CPS develops other charges:
The five children of a Rumanian-Norwegian family taken by Barnevernet (the child protection services, CPS) in Norway (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=8061)
  

  

Demonstrations are planned in several cities
around the world
over the Bodnariu case (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=8061):

January 8        Washington, DC
January 8        England
January 9        Romania
January 9        Belgium
January 9        Germany
January 9        Canada
January 10      Spain
January 16      Czech Republic
January 17      India
January 30      Poland

The facebook announcement of the coming demonstrations (https://www.facebook.com/744234959015965/photos/a.744430705663057.1073741829.744234959015965/760788254027302/?type=3&theater)

From India I am told that there will be a demonstration in New Delhi and that they will also try to arrange one in Kolkata. Cf the photos from the first large demonstration against Norwegian Barnevern: reportedly about 6000 people took part in Kolkata when Stavanger barnevern had confiscated the Bhattacharya-children:
The demo in Kolkata January 2012 (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=31698#p31698)

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Without any comparison with the above:

Four of us held a little spontaneous "demonstration" outside the Norwegian Embassy in Prague in November! We were a little late with the posting of the teext and the photos, so we presented it as
Christmas greetings from Prague (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=36329#p36329)
Photos (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=36330#p36330)

  

Another case of child kidnapping, this time in Finland from a Russian-Finnish couple:

http://ren.tv/node/71124

Their 10-year-old son Thomas was taken from school to an undisclosed location - that's all the parent's got to know. Finnish CPS said that they took the child because he allegedly said that his parents punished him for something. The child is one of three children in this family with Russian mother, Veronica Stopkina. The family now took contact with Russian authorities - Astakhov's offices - and with journalists, seeking help in returning their child.

Hadn't the family better bring the other two children to Russia, instantly, at all cost? After all, standard procedure of child protection systems in the Nordic countries is to consider it self-evident that if one child is punished, then the parents are sure to be monsters and to punish the other children too, so the authorities confiscate the other children also. "Just to be on the safe side" they are kept in foster homes until they are adults.

I know that Finland is pretty bad. The big problem in finding concrete information regularly is Finnish language. It belongs to a totally different language family from the Indo-European languages, so articles in Finnish are not accessible to nonFinnish speakers. The advantage here is that it concerns Russia, so that Nemo has been able to find info.

It comes in good time too: a demonstration in Moscow is planned for the 16th January. This is to be directed specifically against Norway (good) but it may hopefully draw attention to the child protection of other Western countries also (good). I'll be posting about the ongoing demos presently.
    

  

what ? norway authorities must be insane. those cases are not example of child abuse or something. these arent more than simply parenting. Raising 
child in eastern cultures happens with these methods.. norway , please learn world cultures.. do not stuck in your so called democratic european world ...

  

You could certainly say that, salinizm. They keep repeating endlessly how wonderful everything in our child protection system is, but will never discuss how individual, actual cases are carried out. Here is a new article which takes the Norwegian Embassy (= the Norwegian state) by the scruff of their neck: It has already been published by Prague Post (http://praguepost.com/viewpoint/51458-norwegian-politician-criticizes-barnevernet), and has just now turned up on the internet in Romania in Rumanian translation (http://www.cuvantul-ortodox.ro/recomandari/2016/01/10/ambasada-norvegia-minciuna-barnevernet/).

If anyone would like to spread it further, the author Jan Simonsen would just be very pleased. It fits hand in glove with some demonstrations in a lot of countries against Norwegian child protection just now (I'll link to that below.)


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3 January 2016


Jan Simonsen:

Norwegian Embassy with gross bluff about Norwegian child protection (Barnevern)

The Norwegian Embassy in Bucharest has published a fairly long statement about the Norwegian Child Welfare Services (Barnevernet) on its webpage.

It's probably the same information other Norwegian embassies spread to various countries.

This statement is inaccurate and in part downright untrue. It is aimed at showing a rosy picture of a system which is felt by thousands of Norwegians as abusive and has triggered large demonstrations not only in Bucharest and other European capitals but in Norway too.

The Norwegian child welfare service – Children in cross-border situations (http://www.norvegia.ro/News_and_events/policy/The-Norwegian-child-welfare-service-/#.VpK_vukRFTN)

The Embassy writes:
"In 2014, approximately 53.000 children received measures from the child welfare service in Norway. More than eight out of ten of these cases were voluntarily assistive measures for children and families."

The number of children receiving assistance from the Child Welfare Services is of course completely irrelevant in relation to the problem: that many children in Norway are taken away from their parents. The statistics of The Norwegian Directorate for Children, Youth and Family Affairs (http://www.bufdir.no/en/English_start_page/) show that 11,200 children and young individuals lived in Norwegian foster homes in 2014. In the course of the year 1,665 children were taken from their parents involuntarily. Every day around the year, then, 3 - 4 children are taken from their parents (Barn som får hjelp fra barnevernet (http://www.bufdir.no/Statistikk_og_analyse/Oppvekst/Familie_omsorg_og_relasjoner/Barn_som_mottar_tiltak_fra_barnevernet/)).

The Embassy writes that an order for transfer of care is issued by a special Norwegian court or an ordinary court, "and only when the child is subject to serious neglect, maltreatment or abuse", and adds that "Placing a child outside the home without the parents’ consent is always a measure of last resort."

This is a serious allegation, indirectly implying grave accusations against the parents, who have scant possibilities of defending themselves. In a case against a Czech mother, her going to the media with her case was used against her in the appeal court.

The Embassy's claim that children are only taken from their parents when there is "serious neglect, maltreatment or abuse" is so far from the truth that it may be characterised as a serious lie.

Several hundred cases were examined by Dr. of science Åge Simonsen, whose conclusion was that few of the transfers of care were motivated in real care failure, rather they were done after a subjective assessment by a bureaucrat in the Child Welfare Services that the parents "lacked in ability to care". They were not evaluated as able enough to be parents.

This also actually agrees with the statistics of the Directorate for Children, Youth and Family Affairs, statistics of the 20 most frequent reasons why the Child Welfare Services take action. At the top of the list we find "The parents lack in parenting abilities." In an interview with the Norwegian newspaper Verdens Gang, lawyer Thea Totland says that she has noted over the last few years increasingly many cases in which there is no question of evident care failure, "but that the ability to care is judged on the basis of opinion and on the basis of a number of demands which many are not able to fulfil" (my translation). Many Norwegian lawyers are in agreement with Totland's assessment.

What, then, are the demands posed by the Child Welfare Services as diagnostic for parents not having sufficient ability to raise their children?

Professor Marianne Skånland is probably the person in Norway who has for the longest period of years monitored our Child Welfare Services with critical eyes and has studied the field most thoroughly. In an article she lists arguments used by the child protection agencies in Norway and the other Nordic countries saddled with the same official system. From 69 examples I have selected five as representative:
(Hva skal til for at barnevernet skiller barn og foreldre? (http://www.frie-ytringer.com/2014/11/30/hva-skal-til-for-at-barnevernet-skiller-barn-og-foreldre/) from An incomplete list of reasons given – (http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page122/page122.html))

1: The psychologist registered that the mother could not make an omelet to his satisfaction and she cuts the bread into too thick slices.

2: The child looks eagerly at strangers around it and smiles at them. This means that it is not attached to its mother.

3: The baby turns its face the wrong way when its father washes it.

4: The mother wants to let the children's grandmother bring them to and from physiotherapy and other medical treatment which they need, instead of taking them herself. In this the mother puts her own interests before the children's.

5: When visiting the children the grandmother wanted to embrace them. The CPS had to stop that, since it can create an unwanted attachment.


The Embassy writes that "Parents are entitled to a due process, including a lawyer paid for by the government, the right to be heard and the right to appeal the decision".

On paper that is correct. But the judicial process is illusory. Case law shows that it never succeeds. Norwegian lawyers confirm that this is so. While the cases run in the courts, the children are in the hands of foster parents, and the Child Welfare Services therefore advance as an argument against the biological parents that the children have adapted to their new "parents" and that it would be traumatic for them to be torn away from their new environment. This argument is maintained even more strongly with time and is approved by the courts.

In sum, it must be said that in most cases the Child Welfare Services take children from their parents on the basis of a subjective judgment of "lack of ability to care", with very flimsy arguments. The attitude right from the start is that the major responsibility for our children is the prerogative of the state, not of the parents. Parents and children are daily subject to these abusive actions from the Child Welfare Services. They affect both Norwegian parents and foreign parents in Norway. Even the children of asylum seekers, children who have been confiscated by the Norwegian Child Welfare Services, are kept on permanently with Norwegian foster parents, whereas their parents are expelled from Norway.

In the wake of the Child Welfare Services we have seen human catastrophes, destroyed families, and in some cases parents who have taken their own lives or have ended up as drug abusers in their desperation over having lost that which is most precious to them. A report from the Norwegian Institute for Urban and Regional Research (http://www.nibr.no/en/) shows that foster children in Norway take their lives eight times as frequently as other children do (pp 12-13 of the report (http://www.nibr.no/filer/2005-12.pdf)).

This is the truth of the Norwegian Child Welfare Services which the Norwegian Embassy in Bucharest has not wanted to inform the Romanian public about.

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Demonstrations abroad against Norwegian child protection (CPS)  – Barnevernet


Planned demonstrations:

8  January      USA - Washington DC
8  January      Britain - London
8  January      Spain – Barcelona
8  January      Denmark – Copenhagen
8  January      Ireland – Dublin

9  January      Romania - Bucharest, Timisoara, Constanta, Cluj
9  January      Belgium - Brussels
9  January      Germany - Frankfurt
9  January      Canada - Ottawa
9  January      Italy – Rome, Torino
9  January      Netherlands – Hague

10 January     Spain - Madrid
16 January     The Czech Republic - Prague
16 January     Latvia – Riga
16 January     Russia – Moscow
16 January     Austria – Vienna
17 January     India - New Delhi, Kolkata
23 January     Slovakia - Bratislava
30 January     Poland - Warsaw

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Even if only some of these demonstrations take place, it should be considered very good. We must keep our eyes open and hope for reports, preferably in foreign media.

Here in Norway there was a demonstration in Oslo on Tuesday 5 January, with about 40-50 people (very good in this cold weather!).
Protest in Oslo (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.763628443743283.1073741832.744234959015965&type=3)

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5:50 p.m.

The national broadcasting nrk had a coverage in the radio program "Her og Nå" (https://radio.nrk.no/direkte/p1_oslo_akershus#) (Here and now) which runs between 5 and 6 pm. The part of the program dealing with Norwegian Barnevernet was about 9 minutes long. The first part spoke of the demonstrations and interviewed a CPS representative from Naustdal, the municipality where five children have been taken from the family Bodnariu (The five children of a Rumanian-Norwegian family taken by Barnevernet (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=8061)), the second part was an interview with the Norwegian ambassador in Lithuania, who told the listeners about the upset over Norwegian CPS in Lithuania for months.

The program stated that there have been invitations to demonstrations in 5 countries today, in London, Washington DC, Barcelona, Dublin og Copenhagen.
    The CPS say they do not believe the foreigners know how the Norwegian statute regulating child protection works, they will (again) send out information in English, and 'try to explain' the Norwegian system. The ambassador in Lithuania complains (again) that the foreigners do not want to listen to this "information". An embassy secretary in Washington thinks that incorrect information is circulating.
    The CPS locally in Naustdal have received heaps of postcards etc, and the administrative head of the municipal administration finds the situation so unpleasant that he will have the police monitor websites here in Norway which he thinks spread smear-campaigns on the edge of illegality.
 
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In connection with the demonstrations yesterday 8 January 2016:

The demonstrations have been a great success so far. The Facebook group gives the following numbers of supporters:

Washington:    700+ in front of the Norwegian Embassy in Washington DC, USA
Protest in Washington (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.765095796929881.1073741845.744234959015965&type=3)

London:    1200 in front of the Norwegian Embassy in London, England
Protest in London (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.764624360310358.1073741837.744234959015965&type=3)

Barcelona:    150+ in front of the Norwegian Consulate in Barcelona, Spain
Protest in Barcelona (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.764607750312019.1073741835.744234959015965&type=3)

Copenhagen:    30+ in front of the Norwegian Embassy in Copenhagen, Denmark
Protest in Copenhagen (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.764601703645957.1073741834.744234959015965&type=3)
Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNs_TvEbDhw)

Dublin:    600 in front of the Norwegian Embassy in Dublin, Ireland
Protest in Dublin (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.764612193644908.1073741836.744234959015965&type=3)

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Here we have "a toddler" Cipri Tom who has placed an appeal on the facebook page of FrP (the Progress Party, which has the cabinet minister whose department is boss of the CPS!):
Please help STOP Bernevernet Norway kidnap children from their parents! (https://www.facebook.com/fremskrittspartiet/posts/10154462056559046)
Fremskrittspartiet FrP, 8 January 2016

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Regjeringa følgjer demonstrasjonane tett (http://www.nrk.no/sognogfjordane/regjeringa-folgjer-demonstrasjonane-tett-1.12740579) (The government monitors the demonstrations closely)
Fleire demonstrasjonar er varsla i dag. Regjeringa har tett kontakt med rumenske myndigheiter i samband med dei store demonstrasjonane mot ei norsk barnevernssak.
(More demonstrations are scheduled for today. The government has close contact with Romanian authorities in connection with the large demonstrations against a Norwegian CPS case.)
nrk (the national broadcasting) in Sogn og Fjordane, 9 January 2016

"PROTEST I DUBLIN: Ifølgje arrangøren var kring 600 menneske samla utanfor den norske ambassaden i demonstrasjon mot barnevernet.
FOTO: STØTTEGRUPPA SI FACEBOOK-SIDE/DANIEL CATANA"
(PROTEST IN DUBLIN: According to the arranging committee, about 600 people gathered outside the Norwegian Embassy in demonstration against the CPS.
Photo: The facebook page of the committee supporting the family / Daniel Catana)

! !   Ah, indeed, photo taken from the support group – the national Norwegian broadcasting co has stopped using only state-subservient sources?

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Fleire hundre demonstrerte i Washington mot norsk barnevern (http://www.nrk.no/sognogfjordane/fleire-hundre-demonstrerte-i-washington-mot-norsk-barnevern-1.12740291) (Several hundred demonstrated in Washington against Norwegian CPS)
Fleire hundre demonstrantar samla seg i dag ved den norske ambassaden i Washington som ein protest mot ei barnevernsak frå Sogn og Fjordane. Dei overleverte fleire tusen underskrifter til ambassaden.
(Several hundred demonstrators gathered today at the Norwegian Embassy in Washington as a protest against a child protection case from the county of Sogn og Fjordane. They delivered several thousand signatures of protest to the Embassy.)
nrk (the national broadcasting) in Sogn og Fjordane, 8 January 2016

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Reports and photos from the demonstrations on 9 January 2016:

The results are beginning to come in. Most numbers are by reports from the support group.

Timisoara, Romania:    1000 people  (place not given)
Protest in Timisoara (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.764899930282801.1073741838.744234959015965&type=3)
Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuoDKC0JADk#t=16)

Rome:    (Number of people not given) on Piazza Santa Prisca in Rome, Italy
Protest in Rome (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.764929010279893.1073741839.744234959015965&type=3)
Video (https://www.facebook.com/corneliu.piu/videos/785511381593250/)

Bucharest, Romania:    2,500+ near the Norwegian Embassy in Bucharest, Romania
Protest in Bucharest (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.764940963612031.1073741841.744234959015965&type=3)
Video (https://www.facebook.com/cmd.cmdconstruct/videos/vb.100011019573950/127776547599664/?type=2&theater)  (It is not entirely clear whether this video is from Bucharest or from Brussels.)
 
Constanta:    400 i Constanta, Romania
Protest in Constanta (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.765009863605141.1073741842.744234959015965&type=3)
 
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Massedemonstrasjoner mot norsk barnevern i 19 land (http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/romania/massedemonstrasjoner-mot-norsk-barnevern-i-19-land/a/23593260/) (Mass demonstrations against Norwegian CPS in 19 countries)
Flere tusen mennesker demonstrerte mot norsk barnevern i Romania lørdag. Denne måneden holdes det nitten demonstrasjoner mot norske ambassader på tre kontinenter i forbindelse med en omstridt barnevernssak.
(Several thousand people demonstrated against Norwegian child protection in Romania on Saturday. This month there will be nineteen demonstrations against Norwegian embassies on three continents in connection with a controversial child protection case.)
VG, 9 January 2016

The article brings interview with ambassadors and authorities etc. Their attitude is all the time that what is missing is for the foreigners to "understand". When Norway informs them, other countries will understand, they believe. Their thoughts are free from any idea that Norway's child protection may in fact be doing something radically wrong – may really, in actual fact, be an abuser.

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Ottawa:    Several dozen in front of the Norwegian Embassy in Ottawa, Canada
Romanian-Canadians protest Norway's seizure of 5 children in dispute (http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/romanian-canadians-protest-norways-seizure-of-5-children-in-dispute)
Ottawa Citizen, 9 januar 2016

Brussels:    Almost 1000 in front of the Norwegian Embassy in Brussels, Belgium
Protest in Brussel (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.765082126931248.1073741843.744234959015965&type=3)
  
Torino:    400 på Piazza Vittorio i Torino, Italia
Protest in Torino (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.765084943597633.1073741844.744234959015965&type=3)

Hague:    100 people in front of the Norwegian Embassy in The Hague, The Netherlands
Protest in The Hague (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.765316533574474.1073741846.744234959015965&type=3)
  
Cluj:    500+ gathered in the centre of Cluj, Romania
Hundreds rally in several cities urging Norwegian authorities return Bodnariu children (http://www.agerpres.ro/english/2016/01/09/thousands-rally-in-several-cities-urging-norwegian-authorities-return-bodnariu-children-20-49-28)
Agerpres, Romanian National New Agency, 9 January 2016

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