Bitcoin Forum

what do you guys think about these cryptonote technology, should we worry about it? ???

I think it would be better if monero folks stop spamming Bitcoin forum !

I think it would be better if monero folks stop spamming Bitcoin forum !

Hello scammer,






Karma.


I hope your life stays shit, people like you derserve it.

Define "soon".

BTC marketcap is currently about 1000 times greater. There has been a Billion(?) or so invested in BTC startups in the past 2 years. Few people even know what BTC is and essentially nobody knows what Monero is.

Yes its dead, you should sell as fast as you can, theres nothing for people like you to gain here anyway.

Oh wait you already sold?


So if you have no XMR, and you have no faith, wtf are you even talking about? I guess you would even sell your own mother to be able to buy back cheaper?


But let´s see, if i read your other posts



like this for example.

and compare them to another dumbnut in here called mrkavasaki



Who also talks bearish shit the whole time and also writes in the same topics as you, also speaks german, also uses a Monero avatar for whatever reason...
I do get the feeling you are either somehow affiliated to him (a la fightclub) or both of you smoke the same crack.

I don't think it will supplant BTC's top spot anytime soon, but I do think the two will peacefully coexist.
 

Not soon, I doubt ever

Definetely not soon but chances are it will do it.
Transacting bitcoin is clumsy due to too low block size, and if they increase it, it only postpones the problem - not solve it (taking care of symptoms instead of curing the sickness).

Speaking of block size...what's Monero's capacity in terms of txs per second?

Monero has a very scalable block size solution. It is "adaptive" as it changes with the amount of information going through the Monero network.

Okay, thanks. I'd prefer a number, but what you wrote will do. :)

It`s not monero but it is StealthCoin that will replace BTC as soon as it releases fully decartelized StealthSend !

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=836009.0


https://i.imgur.com/B67tPQ6.png

And what's the different between monero and darkcoin?

Fuck no, bitcoin can take on all the coins at once anytime. BTW I still am against monero for being so spammy regarding threads, one new thread about "sparking" new comment that another paid shill is paid to promote.

The Monero project is not paying any shills to create threads or for any other purpose.

Whoever is doing it has nothing to do with the project, and for all we know might be doing it in order to create a backlash. I'd advise against forming any opinion on anything, positive or negative, based on spam threads that can be created by anyone.

I think someone should start a conspiracy thread: "Is the banking elite behind all the Monero shilling threads in order to harm Monero". Someone willing to start a new thread on that issue since it apparently is lacking from BTCT?   ;D

What he said was right. There is no hard limit in the protocol. Noodle Doodle's recent benchmarks on an i7-2600K show 2.5 ms average tx verification time (per core) so that would max out at 1600 tx/second.

Usage at that level would require a lot of bandwidth and CPUs slower than a 2011 quad core desktop would not be able to keep up and would need to drop off.

Whoever is doing it has nothing to do with the project, and for all we know might be doing it in order to create a backlash. I'd advise against forming any opinion on anything, positive or negative, based on spam threads that can be created by anyone.

Not really, monero and other altcoins dond have cold storage option feature.

What?

You can create a paper wallet offline and then send to it. How is that not cold storage?

Monero, maybe litecoin, maybe dogecoin, or perhaps a new currency 'will be' created and will replace 'all. Monero is an interesting alt btw

That's the whole point of crypto community. Speculation, speculation and speculation.

Any commodity price is almost all about speculation.
A friend of mine, who is making his doctoral degree/dissertion in the university of Haifa something about oil (I am not quite sure yet what is his field in this issue - and I guess he do not have full assurance himself as well since the process and reading & studying of the matter is in the beginning stage), told me once, even as much as  90 % of oil price is speculation.

I like the fact that Poloniex has started offering marginal trading. It enables more speculation to the markets and thus increases the stability of the markets. If you feel like dumping, then there are people who want to buy your coins and if you feel like buying, then there are people with marginal positions who want to fulfill your desire without causing massive panic buying to the market where some emotional people may get hurt and end up bitter and desperate bagholders.

The only problem in cryptomarket it's that there are no stable or "calm" periods. There is or PANIC SELLING, or PANIC BUYING

That's pretty much true currently.
But this is because the markets are not liquid enough.
Let's say I want to convert 10 000 usd (which doesn't even buy you a new car) worth of Moneros, it basically leads significiant red candle in the markets.
The markets need to be liquid enough to absorb selling of millions of dollars without causing panic to anyone. For this the (skillful) tradders are needed. They buy when others want to sell and sell when others want to buy, and in order to make the markets to both sides you need a significiant position of both currencies.

mmmm canned monero.

dunno if this was in this spammy thread, but yes and no. A transparent blockchain is great for some things. An optionally transparent is great for some things. For instance, I recently used proofofexistence. Could that be done with the cryptonote blockchain? Sure, but you'd have to tell all parties involved your viewkey etc etc. With bitcoin, anyone can hash my document and see the timestamped proof on the blockchain.

things. just. evolve.

Could it replace bitcoin soon? Like it's bound to happen in the end, you know, no question about it  ;D

I think Bitcoin will stay as the top crypto, but I'm hoping that Monero goes up to become second in market cap.  8)

As much as I think Monero has one of the nicest looking coin icons, I don't think it'll ever be more than Bitcoin. Dash has more time in the market, so the stealth thing is already covered, and Bitcoin is a runaway train that's taking no prisoners anymore. And frankly, I think that's the way it should be. I do think Monero could end up in the top five though.

Well if people keep asking(spamming) these questions ON a bitcoin forum, then it definetely will not. The lack of users in their own thread shows how not much people have trust on it. I don't think a coin without a good community can survive for much long, well that is just my opinion though.

No. The reality is that you have no community, no development, no markerting. It's not me saying, you can check it here:

Work in progress (http://forum.getmonero.org/9/work-in-progress) -> 3 threads

Funding Required (http://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required) -> 2 threads


You don't have any "Developers Thread" or "testing" area. Nothing. In Academic and technical (https://forum.getmonero.org/4/academic-and-technical) you have only 9 threads!!!!

You are an absolute fraud. It's good that the real investors do some research, Monero is only a big hype.

Keep spamming, trolling and fudding hard the competition. That's the only you can do.

Please stay on topic; Where is your stuff? Development, testing, marketing, something?

You are telling me you have only your "we are superior" thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.0

And the speculation thread here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=753252.0

That's it? All the rest is fudding and spam?

My God.

 :D  :D   :D   :D   :D   :D

Cross-posting FYI (Monero and his forum, some facts about the work they are doing):

Maybe its only cold if everybody can see the coins sitting there in the address :D

This is your best and only answer?  :D  :D

You and your community and your coin are an ABSOLUTELY FRAUD.

https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commits/master  ;D

 :D  :D  :D

I'm assuming this is a yes. Great.

For some real infomation about what is Monero you can visit: http://forum.getmonero.org

To see the Monero FUD, SPAM and trolling, you can visit Bitcointalk.

 :-*

Bitcoin and Monero have different purpose. No worry about bitcoin replacing.

Bitcoin and Monero have different purpose. No worry about bitcoin replacing.

Just to entertain the OPs wild assertion, if for any reason Bitcoin were to falter, it would logically fall to the number 2 coin on the market cap to be the stand-in replacement... that would be Litecoin.

But who knows, if Monero continues to stick around and prove itself...

Bitcoin is experiment. Litecoin and Monero are real future of crypto.

The Monero project is not paying any shills to create threads or for any other purpose.

Whoever is doing it has nothing to do with the project, and for all we know might be doing it in order to create a backlash. I'd advise against forming any opinion on anything, positive or negative, based on spam threads that can be created by anyone.

Litecoin is a joke.

Monero could replace Bitcoin, but only if it develops an offline transaction signature platform.

NR 1 DEMAND IS SECURITY, YOU NEED TO HAVE COLD STORAGE TRANSACTION CAPABILITY

Otherwise your altcoin is worth shit.

Here's a start:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg11626658#msg11626658

That is offline wallet generator.

I`m talking about offline transaction with watch only wallet like ELECTRUM and ARMORY provides with bitcoin.

Its worthless to create the address offline, when you need to connect it to the online PC to perform a transaction. ELECTRUM & ARMORY for bitcoin solves that problem.

yes please do this, much less hassle with cold storages i agree.

still, blockchain on the offline computer would need to be updated from time to time, no ?

makes sense to me, 'cause you'd need to make sure you have enough transactions to ring sig with.

This type of transaction will probably be easier when the MRL suggestion (forget which one) where it won't matter whether a certain output is spent or not.

So you want you would like is the ability to create transaction offline and write it to a file (or print on paper), which you could then import to another computer and transmit? Seems doable.

Good suggestion. Noted.

https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/issues/354

Nah i dont think so.
Millions of people have invested on bitcoin.
Hardly an other coin will replace it.

Yes also add there that it should be a lightweight wallet, because i`m sure , for the sake of usuability, not many people like to hold 20-30 GB blockchains on their PC.

So if a lightweight version becomes possible that would be the holy grail :)


Other than that, yes monero is a really privacy friendly coin, with very demanded features, that could replace bitcoin, one distant day in the future, if these minor thing could be fixed.

Nah i dont think so.
Millions of people have invested on bitcoin.
Hardly an other coin will replace it.

what do you guys think about these cryptonote technology, should we worry about it? ???

Bitcoin could not be replaced by Monero, not soon nor any years in the future. Maybe in a different timeline! ;)

Most of the world has not yet realized the importance of privacy. When that happens Monero has as good of a chance to replace bitcoin as any alternative in assistance today.  Of course other alternatives could come along before the masses rush to privacy tech. It will be fun to wait and see what happens!

It is possible but not because of fungibility / privacy. It is very possible because of adaptive blocksize limits and a tail emission that addresses the issue of developing a fee market after the block subsidy ends. The latter is the elephant in the room that very few people in the Bitcoin community are even talking about yet lies at the heart of the blocksize debate.

Most of the world has not yet realized the importance of privacy. When that happens Monero has as good of a chance to replace bitcoin as any alternative in assistance today.  Of course other alternatives could come along before the masses rush to privacy tech. It will be fun to wait and see what happens!

The interesting thing is that people's ACTIONs depict that privacy is important to them.

Most people may say "Privacy doesn't matter" but in their actions they close their curtains, keep their email passwords safe/secret, and don't plaster their bank statements all over the city.

Privacy does matter all of us in some form or fashion.

Anyone saying they don't care about privacy is lying because in one way or another there is an action that that person does in their daily life that counteracts that statement.

I'm pretty sure people wouldn't want to take a shit in the open streets of manhattan while sitting on a toilet for all people to see right?

I don't see people handing out their SSN on the streets in the form of flyers.

I don't see people living in glass houses for authorities to be able to see every part of your home from the road.

The list goes on and on...

This topic is very important as people don't realize their privacy matters until they are under scrutiny by TPTB.

The interesting thing is that people's ACTIONs depict that privacy is important to them.

Most people may say "Privacy doesn't matter" but in their actions they close their curtains, keep their email passwords safe/secret, and don't plaster their bank statements all over the city.

Privacy does matter all of us in some form or fashion.

Anyone saying they don't care about privacy is lying because in one way or another there is an action that that person does in their daily life that counteracts that statement.

I'm pretty sure people wouldn't want to take a shit in the open streets of manhattan while sitting on a toilet for all people to see right?

I don't see people handing out their SSN on the streets in the form of flyers.

I don't see people living in glass houses for authorities to be able to see every part of your home from the road.

The list goes on and on...

This topic is very important as people don't realize their privacy matters until they are under scrutiny by TPTB.

Could Monero replace Bitcoin soon?

Simple answer:  No.

They are different coins for different purposes.

Nah i dont think so.
Millions of people have invested on bitcoin.
Hardly an other coin will replace it.

NO, NEVER!

Bitcoin is the 1 true currency, and no fork of it will ever replace BITCOIN!

REVOLUTION!

Monero isn't a fork of Bitcoin. Revolution.

I have seen you make this argument before and I agree adaptive blocksize limits are important.  I am curious why you feel it is MORE important that the fungibility issue

It is more important because fungibility in Bitcoin can in practice be fixed. The reason why Monero will not replace Bitcoin over fungibility is that in the process of trying to replace Bitcoin, Monero will actually make Bitcoin fungible. A signifcant increase of the market cap of Monero will lead to more exchanges along the lines of Shapeshift.io,

...
I'm not sure. Those transactions will be fairly identifiable and will cause problems. I'm told that already Coinbase asks if you are sending coins to an exchange and if so asks for additional documentation. Sending coins to a non-compliant exchange will likely be a serious problem at some point, if not already.

One sends the coins to one's own address first. This is critical in every case. If one uses an exchange to send coins to a third party then in most cases the exchange has by law to ask questions about the third party. This is a very important difference that many miss. In this case it makes no difference if the coin is Bitcoin, Monero or even fiat. Withdraw 200 USD in cash form the bank. No problem. Now in the US ask the bank to send 200 US to your favourite non compliant gambling site and see what happens.

Edit: The problem with Coinbase is that their business model of sending Bitcoin payments on behalf of clients requires a much stricter level of regulatory compliance than if they just stuck to being an exchange and required clients to only withdraw from and deposit to a Bitcoin address under the client's control.

When we reach the point that regulations are more noticeably harming bitcoin fungibility, Monero has a chance to become the most popular currency if the worldwide hashrate increases dramatically.

Right now there is not enough hashing power to properly secure Monero from a wealthy and motivated attacker.

I think there is no question that if Monero was launched at the same time as Bitcoin that Monero would be the dominant coin. Instead Bitcoin had a big head start and benefits from economies of scale (merchant adoption, user base and network hashrate).

The world wide hash rate will be mostly from botnet. I see the developers do nothing to solve this issue.

Can you provide evidence?

I really believe in this coin but I say no it can not replace bit coin soon, maybe one day in the very distant future but not soon

No i dont think any altcoin could replace bitcoin ever specially not seeing that happen in the near future.Yes i think Monero has the potential to rise but replacing bitcoin will be too much expectation from it.Any other coin is still very much far away from the bitcoin right now and no altcoin is gonna replace it.

Never in my wildest dream that Monero replacing Bitcoin even in a thousand years.

Darknet markets are implementing XMR....could be huge

It could be. Still, the more adoption a crypto currency has the more its price and marketcap will rise towards reaching higher rankings. In my opinion, I think that there would be no crypto to replace Bitcoin for now (unless it manages to solve scalability, and other issues first as well as develop a truly unique technology). Bitcoin will remain the #1 original crypto for a pretty long time, and who knows maybe even the price will be above $1000 by then. Just sharing my thoughts  ;D

About that position of king of crypto I doubt that bitcoin will be ever dethroned. Bitcoin has something that any of new coins cannot recreate - almost perfect initial distribution of coins.

I couldn't agree more with you. Bitcoin is unique and it will be very hard for another alt coin to ever replace it. Also, its creator is a mystery in which I think is another factor which makes Bitcoin a very popular crypto providing true decentralization and the strongest security of any crypto currency network ever available.  :)

My idea is that technically and objectively speaking, monero should have replaced bitcoin, but it won't.  It is not because it is technically superior, and solves big issues of something, that it gets adopted, if people don't see the issue.  It is not the first example of a superior system not breaking through, and an inferior system (especially if "first mover") keeping the market.

Linux vs. windows comes to mind, and that comparison is very, very close to the monero-bitcoin comparison.  
Bitcoin is like windows: it is the first mover on personal computer systems.  It has a GAPING SECURITY HOLE: the total lack of anonymity.  People don't seem to care.  They will once it is too late, and regulation sets in severely (ask Ulbricht !).
Monero is like linux.  The small crowd of geeks understanding the difference will not steer the market against the marketing and publicity muscle of the first mover and the start of its vested interests.  I wouldn't even be surprised if the "anonymity hype" will be won by DASH, even though it is totally inferior technology.  Again, windows vs. linux comes to mind.  Or should we say: apple against linux.
Monero is much more grass roots, and DASH is now in the process of setting up a financial hierarchy and vested interests which will do what is needed to sell their inferior although somewhat working product.

But actually, as with linux, it doesn't matter in the end.  The market cap of monero should be high enough (it isn't, for the moment) for it to be a sufficiently strong means of exchange with anonymity.  It shouldn't necessarily be the market leader.  Like linux, the market share of linux is large enough for linux users to use it.  We don't care that windows has the lion's share, and we don't care that an inferior imitation with a lot of marketing (Apple) is also having its cake.

From the moment it is big enough to be a player, that's good enough.

Re: perfect initial distribution of coins

Monero wasn't much different, TBH. I believe the number is still 21million in the end for both coins.

It's 18.4 million coins that has a tail emission of 0.3 coins per minute/block(?) at the very end forever.

https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/9/how-many-monero-will-be-mined-in-total/14#14

I couldn't agree more with you. Bitcoin is unique and it will be very hard for another alt coin to ever replace it. Also, its creator is a mystery in which I think is another factor which makes Bitcoin a very popular crypto providing true decentralization and the strongest security of any crypto currency network ever available.  :)

even dogecoin, litecoin and ethereum will never afford to replace bitcoin
and possibility for monero to dissapeared higher than replaced bitcoin

I think Monero would have to offer something else besides anonymity.

I think Monero would have to offer something else besides anonymity.

I think Z-cash will eat Monero's breakfast, lunch and dinner on the back of pulling in the punters on the back of its impressive cast of investors and engineers. Cannot see Monero being more than a niche alt.

Monero's sole value proposition is privacy, whilst important, is such a small portion of the market. Most people will only need to use this once in a while and for particular services.

Monero's sole value proposition is privacy, whilst important, is such a small portion of the market. Most people will only need to use this once in a while and for particular services.

It will never come close to replacing btc as it cannot support economic/commercial financial models or mainstream adoption.

Can't be soon, it is still no.10 market cap coin. Eth should be next "possible" to replace bitcoin, but the market cap is still 10% of bitcoin, won't happen in 5 years.

Monero's sole value proposition is privacy, whilst important, is such a small portion of the market. Most people will only need to use this once in a while and for particular services.

It will never come close to replacing btc as it cannot support economic/commercial financial models or mainstream adoption.

Small portion of market will be now... but once everyone and their mother knows EVERY FKN Transaction is saved for all eternety things will shift... i don´t see people stating their bank account in the public too...

Can't be soon, it is still no.10 market cap coin. Eth should be next "possible" to replace bitcoin, but the market cap is still 10% of bitcoin, won't happen in 5 years.

Ethereum is useless and definitely will not replace Bitcoin.
They won't even come close to achieve that after their bailout hardfork.
Monero also will have no chance to reach that.But XMR could find it's niche and prosper.In terms of anonymity there is imo no better coin at the moment.
In terms of trading I think the time for shorting it is coming. ;D

Why do so many people seem to think that ethereum is competition for bitcoin. Ethereum can never expect to reach the kind of values bitcoin is currently at because it wasnt designed to. Yes its a good platform and has advantages over bitcoin in other areas but ethereum is not designed to gain value in the same way that bitcoin is.

 ;D --Thanks! Haven't heard that argument Ripple through the privacy community for awhile.

It has been pointed out elsewhere that the Mossad is sponsoring ZCash.  If you want to trust your privacy and substance to the transparency, honesty, and restraint of the Mossad, well... I don't even...

It has been pointed out elsewhere that the Mossad is sponsoring ZCash.  If you want to trust your privacy and substance to the transparency, honesty, and restraint of the Mossad, well... I don't even...

Ironic you say that since there is many hints Cryptonote is from the Mossad or NSA lol.

It has been pointed out elsewhere that the Mossad is sponsoring ZCash.  If you want to trust your privacy and substance to the transparency, honesty, and restraint of the Mossad, well... I don't even...

Ironic you say that since there is many hints Cryptonote is from the Mossad or NSA lol.

LOL monero useless coin pump, won't even waste time.

IT WILL dump back down to prior levels in weeks I bet.

xmr is useless

never.... bitcoin already have a "bad reputation" around the world because it was used mainly in dn, imagine xmr.... it will be even worse with time. government, banks, they will all fight against monero.

If the use of XMR in darknet markets become increases and will get to a point where the transactions are in the millions of $, it could become the cryptocurrency of choice in the darknet and could replace BTC in the darknet.

The developers need to make a light wallet for this to happen. I do not even know why it is taking long to make a GUI for the current wallet.

The difference is that when they fight BTC, they can win, but when they fight XMR, they can not win. The difference is as simple as the difference between slavery and freedom.  Many prefer a comforting slavery.

There is already a web wallet. It's taking a long time because this project had no premine. It's entirely funded by devs and volunteers and donators. Also, these devs are serious - They focus on core functionality improvements before flashy GUI, but it's being worked on no worries. ;D

I hope so... Because, I will just keep buying MOAR! ;D


Not really. It's made me quite a few BTC in just a few days. :D

Ironic you say that since there is many hints Cryptonote is from the Mossad or NSA lol.

Right, but a thing that has no other use but as a speculative financial instrument is going to be totally useless once the market runs out of greater fools.  At least you could still admire the beauty of a tulip after tulipomania.  If XMR is actually used in dark markets, which I guess is what's being hyped now, then it'll have utility.  If not, it's going straight down the toilet and into the shit pile of shitcoins.  The ones you can get for free on Yobit but can never get enough to cash out.  In ten years, you'll see what I mean.  Ten years, tops.

xmr is useless

xmr is useless

This post ^ is useless.

It's actually quite amusing to see many trying to detract or talk down the monero price almost in a FOMO/shoulda/woulda/coulda style of missing out.

LOL monero useless coin pump, won't even waste time.

IT WILL dump back down to prior levels in weeks I bet.

Not soon, even dash can't, dash is no.1 anon coin, monero is no.2, maybe ethereum has the chance to replace bitcoin, but maybe in 10 years.

what do you guys think about these cryptonote technology, should we worry about it? ???

[

But yes, not soon.  I think somewhere in the 2020-2024 range it is likely that 1 XMR = 1 BTC.  But both will be at a much higher fiat/gold price by then.

I hate it when Legendary members talk out of their ass

Dash is not even close to being #2.  Coinmarketcap.com is valuing the supernode capital on an MTM basis.  If that capital, and the stealth instamined millions were to float on the market, dash could drop 90% in a day.  

All of the monero is floating.  The cap numbers for Monero are actual, legit numbers.

But yes, not soon.  I think somewhere in the 2020-2024 range it is likely that 1 XMR = 1 BTC.  But both will be at a much higher fiat/gold price by then.

For me bitcoin's price will have to go down substantially for XMR to catch up if ever it really has a chance to catch up. Why do I think this? Because for XMR to be the no.1 capitalized coin in coinmarketcap.com, a big group of whales from bitcoin must first unload a big part of their BTC and load up on XMR.

Now that XMR is discovering its own market niche people will start to form and build an economy around it. This will take maybe a shorter time than it did forming bitcoin's economy in the dark market. But beware to the community of Monero. You have to accept and embrace the fact that XMR might be seen as the "evil coin" used by criminals, illegal drug peddlers and maybe also terrorists to cover their tracks. This could be an impediment or an advancement in its development depending on your point of view.

There was a reason why Darkcoin dropped the "dark" to be viewed as a more "legitimate" alternative to bitcoin. Maybe they did not want to go to the dark market road. For me that is a big mistake. Monero is going where no one is willing to go. That will push for more advancement of the coin.

For me bitcoin's price will have to go down substantially for XMR to catch up if ever it really has a chance to catch up. Why do I think this? Because for XMR to be the no.1 capitalized coin in coinmarketcap.com, a big group of whales from bitcoin must first unload a big part of their BTC and load up on XMR.

Now that XMR is discovering its own market niche people will start to form and build an economy around it. This will take maybe a shorter time than it did forming bitcoin's economy in the dark market. But beware to the community of Monero. You have to accept and embrace the fact that XMR might be seen as the "evil coin" used by criminals, illegal drug peddlers and maybe also terrorists to cover their tracks. This could be an impediment or an advancement in its development depending on your point of view.

There was a reason why Darkcoin dropped the "dark" to be viewed as a more "legitimate" alternative to bitcoin. Maybe they did not want to go to the dark market road. For me that is a big mistake. Monero is going where no one is willing to go. That will push for more advancement of the coin.

Now that XMR is discovering its own market niche people will start to form and build an economy around it. This will take maybe a shorter time than it did forming bitcoin's economy in the dark market. But beware to the community of Monero. You have to accept and embrace the fact that XMR might be seen as the "evil coin" used by criminals, illegal drug peddlers and maybe also terrorists to cover their tracks. This could be an impediment or an advancement in its development depending on your point of view.

There was a reason why Darkcoin dropped the "dark" to be viewed as a more "legitimate" alternative to bitcoin. Maybe they did not want to go to the dark market road. For me that is a big mistake. Monero is going where no one is willing to go. That will push for more advancement of the coin.

what do you guys think about these cryptonote technology, should we worry about it? ???

I think that you will find Monero something of a disappointment as an "anarchist weapon".  Consider that it has regulatory compliance features baked in.  Not auspicious. It is cash. It's really no more of an anarchist weapon than is a dollar bill.

I think need to make it more usable first before saying it will replace to bitcoin,  and I read article about this coin but still not convince that it will make there own name and get a high value. Break the price of ethereum first before assume  monero will replace  bitcoin.

The market cap is not the essence of a crypto currency.  There needs to be a market cap, but the height is irrelevant from the moment it is high enough to be able to "carry" all transactions you would like to.  It looks like bitcoin is more of a speculative tool (the hope of moon one day and Hodling on one hand, and trader's volatility joy on the other) rather than a useful currency to buy stuff with.   The part of the market cap of bitcoin that is actually used to buy stuff with must be really small (i'm talking about what Fisher's formula would give you, if you know the total amount of goods and services bought with bitcoin - apart from other crypto or cash of course - and the velocity by which a coin earned that way is spend again on goods and services).  A wild guess is that a single bitcoin would probably only be of the order of $10 or less if that was the only driver of its market cap, although I don't know.

I don't understand exactly what you mean.

...

To me, a crypto currency is a means of doing something, of empowering your freedom of action, in this case, as a free means of exchange with no meddling in.  The freedom to produce value for others, and obtain value produced by others, without getting ripped off, hindered, or obliged to ask for permission to a set of thugs that call themselves the state or any other maffia.  The freedom to give that power to whoever you like, for the reasons that are yours, and yours only.

The need for a means of exchange is so essential in all economic relationships, that you can compare it to the bloodstream in a living being.  If you have control over the blood stream, you control the essence of the living being.  The state understood this.  So it takes full control of all economic exchange, by controlling, verifying, tapping 50% or so from, each and every little blood stream in the living body which is our society, and goes after everyone trying to have a drop of blood exchanged without its prying eyes and sticky fingers on it ; then the state goes on and labels these victims "fraudsters", "tax evaders", "illegal traders", etc... and turns them into criminals.

There have existed physical goods that were good means of "blood" that helped people exchange value: gold and cash.  But them being physical goods, they carry with them all the limitations and risks of physical goods.

Crypto is the first time a means of exchange has been invented that is as handy as cash (or almost so), and has not these problems of physical goods.  Bitcoin was a brilliant invention.
But bitcoin is mainly NOT used to do that.  Bitcoin is mainly used by people speculating on it, thinking they can get value from its increase in price as an early adopter (hodlers), or by trading on its volatility.  Most of its market cap is made of this, and not by being used as the tool in economic exchange without state meddling or state theft.  Bitcoin is mainly NOT used as the blood in the veins of free exchange, but as a gamblers (sorry, "investors") token in the big financial casino.

And bitcoin has a serious flaw in it, its traceability, if you want to use it to enjoy your freedom of exchanging value with other people, or giving value to people you like for whatever reason.

The part of the value of bitcoin that comes from "being blood in the veins of free exchange" is pretty small as compared to its market cap.

If you use a means of exchange SIMPLY as a means of exchange, it acquires a price, by Fisher's formula: P x Q = M x V, because you keep the finite amount of tokens during a finite time between two exchanges.  If I work today, I earn X value, stored in that means of exchange, which I spend next week for about X value in consumed goods and services.  This "X value" and this "one week" is what gives the means of exchange a finite price.
I will for the moment assume that dollars are a good indicator of market value (it is, in the short term).  There are 15 million bitcoin.  Imagine that on average, every bitcoin is held one week between acquiring it for some goods or services, and spending it on other goods and services.  Say, people work to acquire bitcoin, and spend that amount of bitcoin on average 1 week later.  So every week, 15 million bitcoin are acquired by working, and 15 million bitcoin are spend in this example.  Suppose that in a whole year, people earn and spend for 15 billion dollar that way.  That's quite huge, isn't it.  Bitcoin is NOT used that way, is it.
Well, if that were the case, then the dollar price of a single bitcoin would be 1 000 / 52 = $19.
Of course, if people would on average wait one month between earning a bitcoin, and spending it, if 15 billion dollar a year is earned and spend with bitcoin, its price would be about $80.

I'm pretty sure that is NOT the case, and if it is, the only place where that can be the case is dark markets.

This is why I say that the actual "currency" part of the bitcoin market cap is way, way below the actual market cap and price, which is mainly speculation, and not "earning them and spending them", the blood in the veins of free exchange.

The problem is that the state doesn't like that free flowing blood, and that you put yourself at serious risk doing so, and bitcoin is simply cryptographically not protecting you ; on the contrary.   The traceability of its open ledger is a privacy nightmare.

This is why I say that for an actual usage, as "blood in the veins of free exchange" you do not need the market cap of bitcoin.  You need a certain market cap, but it doesn't need to be as high as the 10 billion of bitcoin.  And to "replace bitcoin" in the veins of free exchange is probably not such a huge task either, because my impression is that bitcoin is not used much for that.  It was probably more used for that in the old days (on dark markets) than now when people realized that they are graving their transactions in the open for eternity.

...
Now that XMR is discovering its own market niche people will start to form and build an economy around it. This will take maybe a shorter time than it did forming bitcoin's economy in the dark market. But beware to the community of Monero. You have to accept and embrace the fact that XMR might be seen as the "evil coin" used by criminals, illegal drug peddlers and maybe also terrorists to cover their tracks. This could be an impediment or an advancement in its development depending on your point of view.
...

Yea if it will be so popular in terrorist world then all exchanges based in civilized countries will be force to stop trading it.
All people who will have open xmr wallet will be juge as terrorist and you will see that masses 10 person per day able to use XMR.
Do you think that any government will allow such tool to exist,they will put in prison for having XMR client in computer.
You will see liquid of XMR hmm bugattis which are sold once per year at dealer if goverment will ban such coin.
Terrorism is good ecscuse for them for more control in USA currently you can go to jail without court for forever because they suspect that you are terrorist.
If they target XMR as terrorist money GL to that coin. Dev will land in prison as well as it was with guys who was developing disk encryption.
They claim that disk encryption is weapon and he went to jail :D.
You won't hide with your xmr in hole dark net is nice marketing stuff but it can be really death blow at end for coin.

PS: A day when XMR would be popular in terrorist community its best day to sell IMO.

Yea if it will be so popular in terrorist world then all exchanges based in civilized countries will be force to stop trading it.
All people who will have open xmr wallet will be juge as terrorist and you will see that masses 10 person per day able to use XMR.
Do you think that any government will allow such tool to exist,they will put in prison for having XMR client in computer.
You will see liquid of XMR hmm bugattis which are sold once per year at dealer if goverment will ban such coin.
Terrorism is good ecscuse for them for more control in USA currently you can go to jail without court for forever because they suspect that you are terrorist.
If they target XMR as terrorist money GL to that coin. Dev will land in prison as well as it was with guys who was developing disk encryption.
They claim that disk encryption is weapon and he went to jail :D.
You won't hide with your xmr in hole dark net is nice marketing stuff but it can be really death blow at end for coin.

PS: A day when XMR would be popular in terrorist community its best day to sell IMO.

...
The problem with that scenario: if you ban Monero by name, and do not ban its attributes, you'll end up with dozens of forked coins to take Monero's place--Monero doesn't break any laws, so laws would have to be made (and then designed around) to make Monero illegal, and the more specific the law, the more likely you'll just get a whack-a-mole scenario similar to designer drugs. Plus, you seem to miss that US law isn't world law just yet(China and Russia might embrace Monero or vice versa if countries want to go that route) and it's still impossible to keep people from downloading wallets or creating games that don't use Monero as game currency, but certainly give you the option to deposit XMR, move to a country where it's legal and then spend as you see fit (CK plug).

...

....
unbelievable... all the exact same arguments that were used in 2012 and 2013 against bitcoin are now used against monero...

very very very bullish!

best regards

...
Do you think that world powers will allow to use XMR on their territory ?
They will alow if they control it. When switzland doesn want to release info about some money transfers then some sad men
comes to Switzland and they have convinced them to make changes i guess they had "good" arguments.
Today because of money loudering you have more restricted laws when it will be needed all XMR exchanges will go down
they will impose good law and they will shut it down. XMR would exist p2p but you wont get any fiat window for it that will couse hard drop in volume.
If you want challenge a biggest superpowers and help terrorists with XMR you are on loose side.
And big Russia and China they don't want to much freedom for their people and XMR is problem for them too.
If XMR will be popular in terrorists group it will be shut down.

Do you think that world powers will allow to use XMR on their territory ?
They will alow if they control it. When switzland doesn want to release info about some money transfers then some sad men
comes to Switzland and they have convinced them to make changes i guess they had "good" arguments.
Today because of money loudering you have more restricted laws when it will be needed all XMR exchanges will go down
they will impose good law and they will shut it down. XMR would exist p2p but you wont get any fiat window for it that will couse hard drop in volume.
If you want challenge a biggest superpowers and help terrorists with XMR you are on loose side.
And big Russia and China they don't want to much freedom for their people and XMR is problem for them too.
If XMR will be popular in terrorists group it will be shut down.

I don't want to be on the loose side of anything. Well, maybe Jenna Jameson (such digression)...

Hacking is illegal almost everywhere, but it happens almost everywhere -- as long as other cryptocurrencies are legal, it will be pretty damn easy to exchange it for value without the help of government sponsored exchanges. They'll have to ban them all to have any great effect, and even then, it's doubtful they'll get the controls you are hoping/not-hoping(?) for.

unbelievable... all the exact same arguments that were used in 2012 and 2013 against bitcoin are now used against monero...

very very very bullish!

best regards

Do you think that world powers will allow to use XMR on their territory ?
They will alow if they control it. When switzland doesn want to release info about some money transfers then some sad men
comes to Switzland and they have convinced them to make changes i guess they had "good" arguments.
Today because of money loudering you have more restricted laws when it will be needed all XMR exchanges will go down
they will impose good law and they will shut it down. XMR would exist p2p but you wont get any fiat window for it that will couse hard drop in volume.
If you want challenge a biggest superpowers and help terrorists with XMR you are on loose side.
And big Russia and China they don't want to much freedom for their people and XMR is problem for them too.
If XMR will be popular in terrorists group it will be shut down.

XMR cannot replace bitcoin but it is possible that it will gain a popularity as big as bitcoin. The darknet will be a catalyst of this. I speculate that XMR will later be considered the unofficial "official" currency of the darknet. That is a big market that will later amount to the billions of $. We will see drug cartels, terrorists, money launderers and other people who want complete privacy of their transactions to use XMR.

The problem is to get to fiat. That is where XMR and BTC will get their synergy. To use one, you have to use the other. I believe BTC will still be relevant because it will be the gateway and store of value coin for a long time together with XMR as the daily transaction coin that keeps everything you do with it private and secure.

This makes some very valid points, nevertheless there are some areas where I have to disagree.

1) The state is by far not the biggest source of friction in the current fiat money system. Most of the friction comes from the actions of entrenched players such as banks, credit card issuers and other entrenched providers such as Western Union. These entrenched private sector payment providers are for the most part responsible for most of the fees and restrictions with electronic fiat payments today. I actually doubt that crypto will have that much impact on the state. We must keep in mind that in the 1950's and 1960's top marginal income tax rates were close and in some cases over 100% of income, yet for the most part transactions were in the form of cash and bearer instruments (bonds, stocks etc). The role of the banks and other payment intermediaries was greatly diminished when compared to today. Crypto in this respect is in fact turning back the clock by 50 - 60 years.

2) The role of speculators and investors in crypto currency is to anticipate the future value of a crypto currency due to market use under Fisher's formula. One would expect during the initial growth phase of a crypto currency that a very significant part if not most of the market capitalization is due to investment and speculation. This is both normal and actually necessary for the crypto currecny to function as money in commerce; however one must always keep in mind that the ultimate justification is the future value of the crypto currency for use in commerce. The market is simply attempting to predict this future value. In this respect Monero is no different from Bitcoin.

3) Bitcoin has a very significant problem that is completely orthogonal to privacy, anonymity and fungibility. This is of course the protocol limitation of the 1 MB fixed blocksize limit. Furthermore there no clear solution to this problem in Bitcoin that does not lead over time to a situation where the Bitcoin miners do not have an incentive to secure the network. Monero has addressed this issue with a tail emission. I must emphasize this. A Monero style adaptive blocksize without a tail emission such as is the case in Bytecoin, is a prescription for disaster.. This is why the blocksize limit in Bitcoin is so intractable, and why those in the small block Bitcoin camp also have very valid arguments. Bitcoin like coins such as Litecoin and Dash also have the same fundamental problem as Bitcoin here since they both have a fixed maximum number of coins. Dogecoin could safely use a Monero style adaptive blocksize limit since it also a tail emission.

Monero could over time overtake Bitcoin in market cap simply by taking over the growth in the demand for crypto that Bitcion cannot accommodate. This is because accommodating such growth while maintaining the security of the Bitcoin network, may well require breaking a fundamental social covenant of Bitcoin; namely the 21 million XBT limit. The privacy, anonymity and fungibility aspect of Monero would simply add fuel to the fire.

Bitcoin will be too expensive to be used as a currency.

Yes, and we're on our way!

i doubt that this can ever happen with monero replacing anything, it is like any other altcoin with too much hot air.

but these days the pump of XMR is awesome and it is an excellent opportunity to take advantage of when the price is rising to make a good amount of profit.

what do you guys think about these cryptonote technology, should we worry about it? ???

monero never can move or replace posititon bitcoin

I am afraid that is true. There are many traders who are very happy to take advantage and trade in and out of XMR now because the upside volatility is very high. This is what I said in another thread and I did not mean anything bad with it. I was only saying it in a factual way because that is how markets are. But I was told by smoothie that I was envious because he thought I was saying that XMR is being pumped and dumped. Which it actually is happening now because the traders buy in and then dump higher.

If they are dumping into darknet users, then the valuation is partly utility, which changes the dynamics. The same could be said of Bitcoin's darknet and remittance markets, and use as an alt coin on-ramp.

Monero is clearly being pumped right now by folks who intend to switch to Z-Cash when it launches. Not saying Monero lacks merit, just that it's more fun and games than anything else at the moment. The vol is attractive as well.

Infinite divisibility voids this assertion.

If I cared about privacy I would not use cryptographic software implemented by former IDF, paid by the Israeli government.  The likelihood that these people are SIGINT operatives is overwhelming.  It's like accepting NSA-coin as your privacy cover.

Is it even remotely reasonable to trust the supply of ZCash?  The incentives to subvert this are potentially astronomical, and the act itself will be undetectable,  until the hyperinflation sets in.

The last time I reviewed their proposal and code, the sheer size of the proofs rendered the system incapable of scaling to any significant usage traffic.  Has that been fixed?

Bitcoin = Public Ledger
Monero = Private Ledger

Everything else = Pump n' Dump / Speculation

Of course not,but,who's care? Most of the investors just want to earn more BTC

Its not possible no coin will ever overtake bitcoin. Bitcoin will always be the king and there will be other jesters and jokers and queens but only one king.

Indeed, the "trusted setup" is a funny concept in a trustless, distributed environment.  This could be rendered trustworthy if each potential participant in ZCASH were be a member of the trusted setup.  As such, you know of yourself that you are "fair", and if ALL users collude, that's their affair, isn't it !

So ZCASH's system seems to be a perfect way of having an anonymous trusted PRIVATE block chain between a finite, and a priori known number of participants that don't need to know eachother.  But it cannot be trusted by newcomers afterwards (the old boys can collude against you).  In fact, ZCASH's system is a kind of Proof of initial stake to the extreme.  


This is my main problem with it.  The trusted setup is a problem of principle, but I could eventually live with it.  But you can only use "anonymity" with such a chain bloat that you can do it for only a few transactions if I understand well.  If ZCASH were to use anonymity systematically, it would be like monero using ring signatures with a few million of signatures or so.

I think the main selling point of ZCASH is that it can sell fake anonymity to believers.  And as most people are not sufficiently technically aware of all these aspects, there might be many many believers.   As such, a believers' trusted setup is not a problem.  Many people don't REALLY need anonymity, they only need to believe it.  Those that really need it might be in trouble of course.

I have a question. If zcash will continue to release using the "trusted set up" then there is a high chance that it will be bashed by the known people of crypto. So I ask, what do you think is the better option for the zcash development team? How can they eliminate the trusted set up? Do they have to start from scratch?

Its not possible no coin will ever overtake bitcoin. Bitcoin will always be the king and there will be other jesters and jokers and queens but only one king.

Its not possible no coin will ever overtake bitcoin. Bitcoin will always be the king and there will be other jesters and jokers and queens but only one king.

I have a question. If zcash will continue to release using the "trusted set up" then there is a high chance that it will be bashed by the known people of crypto. So I ask, what do you think is the better option for the zcash development team? How can they eliminate the trusted set up? Do they have to start from scratch?

you are right here bitcoin is public where people choose to use bitcoin as they currency because they can do many in bitcoin where they can exchange in into another coin , they can do gambling activities etc , and trading also in monero is private where some people don't know what is it for now

As far as I agree on this but there are far more better coins than monero, in my opinion and it will never replace bitcoins because of several issue.  One of it is the anonymity where government will always battle since they want a full control over currencies.  I think this thread is created by monero fanatic :D anyway i respect  your stand.

Bitcoin scales much better than Monero anonimity tech. If you just look at the number of transactions that fit in 1 block in the monero chain and make the calculations of how many bytes are needed to perform 1 transaction you would know it. That's why they are pumping this coin as hell because it cannot achieve mass adoption in the long term and they know it  8).

Bitcoin scales much better than Monero anonimity tech. If you just look at the number of transactions that fit in 1 block in the monero chain and make the calculations of how many bytes are needed to perform 1 transaction you would know it. That's why they are pumping this coin as hell because it cannot achieve mass adoption in the long term and they know it  8).

Bloated chain

The number of people who are interested in privacy is small. It is limited to some paranoid people (who may have a genuine reason for being paranoid) and those who are operating outside the law (buying stuff on the darknets).

Sure Monero might take away some of the dark business from bitcoin. But it can't scale beyond that. Remember, bitcoin was king of the darknets in 2012 - it had the whole market to itself. And BTC had a small marketcap at the time, because that is what the whole darknet market looks like - small in the grand scheme of things. Offline, cash is still king. Online a cryptocurrency needs to go mainstream to grow.

Sure Monero might take away some of the dark business from bitcoin.

But it can't scale beyond that. Remember, bitcoin was king of the darknets in 2012 - it had the whole market to itself. And BTC had a small marketcap at the time, because that is what the whole darknet market looks like - small in the grand scheme of things. Offline, cash is still king. Online a cryptocurrency needs to go mainstream to grow.

Corrective medicine for disinformation:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3yrazw/what_is_moneros_theoretical_maximum_transaction/

Monero does not have the practical scaling limits that Bitcoin has.  Bring on the volume.  I mean, really, bring on the organic transaction volume, please!

[The problem i was addressing was not how many transactions per second a coin can perform, but the total size of the blockchain after having to perform so many transactions along the years. If Monero ever achieved the number of transactions of the Bitcoin network, how many Gigabytes of space do you think it would be required in your hard disk to store the blockchain?

I will leave the calculations for yourself...as this is a comparison between Monero and Bitcoin.

The problem i was addressing was not how many transactions per second a coin can perform, but the total size of the blockchain after having to perform so many transactions along the years. If Monero ever achieved the number of transactions of the Bitcoin network, how many Gigabytes of space do you think it would be required in your hard disk to store the blockchain?

I will leave the calculations for yourself...as this is a comparison between Monero and Bitcoin.

Monero >Bitcoin

I think ETC will replace ETH before XMR replaces BTC.

But if you check out the price ETC is sinking rapidly compared to ETH. While XMR will continue to go up, there's 0% chance that could replace BTC.

But if you check out the price ETC is sinking rapidly compared to ETH. While XMR will continue to go up, there's 0% chance that could replace BTC.

Absolutely. ETC is shit, just another scam chain. I got my $ out of it , let it die!


XMR will be the future.  8)

Axxo - is that you, the torrent dude? You will need to prove it if so. Good luck and thanks for all if it's really you! :D

Is it not that ETC is the original chain and ETH is the fork?

how can it be called a scam chain when it was Vitalik himself who created it?

Yes.


Haha. That's lulzy.

How many $ you think Vitalik lost in the DAO implosion?

He isn't a Monero folk, just a reverse troll like generalizethis pointed out.

In addition:

LOL i can see dealers compiling monero wallet on command line between a lines of coke

Still better than looking up their bitcoin balance from jail I would think...

What jail are you talking about?  The cryptonohope protocol?

Monero, maybe litecoin, maybe dogecoin, or perhaps a new currency 'will be' created and will replace 'all. Monero is an interesting alt btw

Ummm dogecoin does not even exist anymore, what are you talking about?

Not a big follower of doge anymore, but what's this then?

https://poloniex.com/exchange#btc_doge

Well I'll be a monkeys uncle, I thought it was dead

I know right? Strangely, you can margin trade with it. Those old doge whale bag-holders I guess. Speaking of margin trading. I hear now is a really bad time to short XMR. I hear it's the next bitcoin.  8) 

I guess thats another way of saying you think XMR is going to the moon? :)

Lol, Monero will not replace bitcoin. Wake up

@owlcatz. Yes the gui sounds good but what Monero needs is a good light wallet and a web wallet that is provided by a third party. If third party developers from bitcoin will crossover to Monero then that would be a sign that the XMR blockchain will be a fomidable one beating all the others for the title of potential replacement for bitcoin. We all thought it was litecoin.

Well I'll be a monkeys uncle, I thought it was dead

Bitcoin is way more established than Monero. NO, Monero will not replace BTC

There already is a great web wallet - https://mymonero.com/#/

The thing about this coin is it's privacy features. It's not a BTC clone, the code is completely different. It's not out to "beat" BTC, it's just a new coin altogether, it's about true fungibility, and optional privacy. You don't walk around with your wallet open to see how much $ you have in it do you? Same with Monero.

Yes that web wallet is good enough but you do not get my point. It is important the 3rd party developers and companies must create 3rd party software for Monero. When more and more 3rd party software and services are being created, we could see that there is interest from outside the Monero development team to create a whole new ecosystem. Bitcoin started this way. After the darknet market acceptance the 3rd party developers are needed to walk on the road of success.

.... potential replacement for bitcoin. We all thought it was litecoin.

You all thought is was litecoin maybe. Litecoin is so much a clone of Bitcoin such that any fatal flaw in Bitcoin will also be a fatal flaw in litecoin. Litecoin is pointless.

No, Monero can't replace Bitcoin soon, people need to understand that investment in Bitcoin is very huge and there is a reason Why it is valued close to $10 billion and all Altcoins are valued arround $2 billion, Is possible for one of this Altcoins to reach $10 billion but it first needs to match Bitcoin investment level. Once Rostock become up and running is going to create a huge gulf between Bitcoin and Altcoins.

However, Bitcoin will probably remain just a currency for investments while Monero will be the real cryptocurrency that we'll use.

We?Who do you mean by we?maybe you're just making jokes, opening your eyes to the fact,dude. Monero and bitcoin are not having differences and that is just a currency for investment. maybe some people will say like that but for me, that is just a bullshit.

do you know what 'fungibility' is?

I dont. Can you explain it to me please.

You cannot  closed the fact that some impossible things will be happen and i think any coin would provably surpass another coin if it can gather some global support and devs development plan in the future, and i think their difference for now is bitcoin has wide market with merchant accepting it slowly but for monero i don't see any adoption on merchant's or if it have just post it here, and that is the difference what i've seen for them.

Dislodging Bitcoin is a difficult task but not unachievable. However, currencies like Dogecoin or Litecoin will never be up to the task since they are fundamentally no different from their parent Bitcoin. Only the highly innovative currencies with unique features will be able to take on Bitcoin in the future.

It depends on the further development of the CryptoNote technology. If it is done properly, Monero will be big.

It depends on the further development of the CryptoNote technology. If it is done properly, Monero will be big.

I think it may rise, YES. But not replace BTC  ;D

what do you guys think about these cryptonote technology, should we worry about it? ???

This topic is very delusional and doesn't follow any market fundamentals  :)

Monero is about to dump back into 'anonimity'  ;D ;D

Monero will not go anywhere until it is easy to use. Anonymous coins will not become immensely popular until a significantly large amount of people are concerned enough about their privacy. I never understood what monero has that isn't in the other crypto note coins (with all respect to monero devs). All they have is more publicity and therefore a larger community.

Monero is about to dump back into 'anonimity'  ;D ;D

Monero is about to dump back into 'anonimity'  ;D ;D

nice wordplay but i doubt that it is true.

Monero is just making some publicity and it could attract a lot of investors and a lot of money so even a downward spiral would take a very long time.

and don't forget that monero rose up from 0.004 to 0.015 (current price) and that rise doesn't happen out of nowhere.

Re: Could Monero replace Bitcoin soon?

Short answer, No.
Long answer, Fuck no.

Don't you have anything else to waste time on?

like euh, I don't know, searching for evidence to prove your empty claims: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1621525.0

Your credibility is nill...

best regards

I can care less about proving myself to you or the other low rollers here in the forums.  I just feel bad for people getting scammed and cant bring myself to allow people to peddle scams and take peoples money. Just want newbs to WAKE UP and be aware of these scams in the altcoin world.

I can care less about proving myself to you or the other low rollers here in the forums.  I just feel bad for people getting scammed and cant bring myself to allow people to peddle scams and take peoples money. Just want newbs to WAKE UP and be aware of these scams in the altcoin world.

Monero will not go anywhere until it is easy to use. Anonymous coins will not become immensely popular until a significantly large amount of people are concerned enough about their privacy. I never understood what monero has that isn't in the other crypto note coins (with all respect to monero devs). All they have is more publicity and therefore a larger community.

I really think it could. Its superior in so many ways.

Jap, same here, not saying it WILL happen, but there's a chance...

XMR is better technologically and 'monetarilly'...
BTC has the network-effect though...

let's see what's more important in the long run...

Jap, same here, not saying it WILL happen, but there's a chance...

XMR is better technologically and 'monetarilly'...
BTC has the network-effect though...

let's see what's more important in the long run...

The ideal happening is Bitcoin getting to 1 Trillion USD MC and Monero where Bitcoin is now (10 billion USD). I think Bitcoin earned its status as digital gold but its not enough to be used as cash as it can't scale, gold is heavy and slow to move and so is Bitcoin. Monero is private, fungible and light like cash.

Network effect is the only advantage BTC has pretty much. And if the price of Monero keeps growing faster than the price of btc people certainly has not even one reasson to dump their bitcoins  into Monero and that transfers the network effect to XMR.

I have been following the recent block size debates through the mailing list.  I had hoped the debate would resolve and that a fork proposal would achieve widespread consensus.  However with the formal release of Bitcoin XT 0.11A, this looks unlikely to happen, and so I am forced to share my concerns about this very dangerous fork.

The developers of this pretender-Bitcoin claim to be following my original vision, but nothing could be further from the truth.  When I designed Bitcoin, I designed it in such a way as to make future modifications to the consensus rules difficult without near unanimous agreement.  Bitcoin was designed to be protected from the influence of charismatic leaders, even if their name is Gavin Andresen, Barack Obama, or Satoshi Nakamoto.  Nearly everyone has to agree on a change, and they have to do it without being forced or pressured into it.  By doing a fork in this way, these developers are violating the "original vision" they claim to honour.

They use my old writings to make claims about what Bitcoin was supposed to be.  However I acknowledge that a lot has changed since that time, and new knowledge has been gained that contradicts some of my early opinions.  For example I didn't anticipate pooled mining and its effects on the security of the network.  Making Bitcoin a competitive monetary system while also preserving its security properties is not a trivial problem, and we should take more time to come up with a robust solution.  I suspect we need a better incentive for users to run nodes instead of relying solely on altruism.

If two developers can fork Bitcoin and succeed in redefining what "Bitcoin" is, in the face of widespread technical criticism and through the use of populist tactics, then I will have no choice but to declare Bitcoin a failed project.  Bitcoin was meant to be both technically and socially robust.  This present situation has been very disappointing to watch unfold.

Satoshi Nakamoto

Well we dont know but i heard that bitcoin is the only one can stay remain.. and monero is just alternative.. or other altcoin is just alternative that can never replace bitcoins.

A lot of dreaming going on in here.

Well, dream on but sorry to tell you that an obscured blockchain does not ever have a snowball's hope in h*ll of becoming more valuable than a transparent one - not where unbacked "money" is concerned at least.

All they are good for is being a decentralised private bookkeeper, or transporting something that already has value (such as fiat or bitcoin  ;D ).

You do not support "privacy" in a blockchain by obscuring the very thing that endorses its value. See if you can get a look-in on the steady drip of business development (http://www.thebitcoinchannel.com) that goes on in transparent blockchain - until then I'd say that exchange-based pumping & dumping remains the best hope ;)

[...]

To wit, the firm sees blockchain technology as nothing more than a “fundamentally new type of database technology.” And as far as Goldman’s interests are concerned such as high-volume commercial transactions and sharing data between partners, it expects private blockchains to reign supreme.

[...]

The report further explains
Private or ‘permissioned’ blockchains behave in the same way as the public blockchain, except that the identity of anyone who attempts to access the blockchain must be validated against a list of pre-validated market IDs. We believe that the vast majority of commercial blockchain applications – particularly in capital markets – are likely to use private or permissioned blockchains.

Quote Goldman Sachs all you like. They didn’t invent cryptocurrencies and no-doubt make exactly the same mistake as people in this therad are doing - of projecting a banking model where a person is sysnonymous with an account onto a public blockchain, which is nothing like a bank.

“Your money” is not stored on a blockchain. “Your money” is stored in a bank account with your name on it. On the other hand a blockchain is a public resource that may or may not have some value. By obscuring the outputs, all you’re doing is diminishing that value.

Bitcoin has people crawling all over it day in day out, scrutinising every last address and dialoging over it. The fact that thats possible is about the only thing that actually turns such an unbacked resource into “money” because although every nook and cranny can be scrutinised, it can’t be controlled. That fact is what makes your private key have some power - and therefore value.

With blockchain based unbacked “money”, you do not endorse the value - everyone else does. So turn that into a little “private club” where you need a private key to even see it, let alone touch it and you can have your provacy but forget it being worth anything ;)

Scrutiny can control Bitcoin if a state coerces businesses to blacklist/flag certain tainted bitcoins (yes it's happened).

You can't "hide" the blockchain form the state without simultaneously hiding it from everyone else as well - i.e. the majority of the population who don't hold private keys and on who'm you're depending to endorse its value.

ZCash and Komodo both have better anon implementations. Komodo will be backed by full hashing power of BTC.

Monero does not have any particular monopoly on anything.

PS well done Team Monero, pretty smooth hard fork from what I can tell

Is this for real? Is this signed with a reliable public key that we know for sure belongs to satoshi?

Yea. Swiss bank accounts. Nobody ever wants those. ::)

maybe not anymore :P

http://www.businessinsider.com/cia-got-a-swiss-banker-drunk-2015-2
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-09/which-we-learn-cia-was-instrumental-breaking-swiss-bank-secrecy-code

I think it's been months but to my present awareness I don't think anyone's proven that it's not real

:)

You can't "hide" the blockchain form the state without simultaneously hiding it from everyone else as well - i.e. the majority of the population who don't hold private keys and on who'm you're depending to endorse its value.

Anyway, this whole idea of treating blockchain "cash" as if it's a credit paradigm - where bookkeeping for an individual's state of credit doubles up as 'money' and therefore needs to be hidden from view is slightly ludicrous.

The obvious solution is to de-couple the problem of fungibility from the priorities of transparency (as every other cash medium since the dawn of man has done) and create a fully transparent AND fungible blockchain. That objective is achieved by showing the outputs but mitigating the build up of regular patterns in the blockchain such that one balance is practically indistinguishable from another in all respects other than address.

Cash isn't a "credit paradigm", not more than "a piece of gold" would be a credit paradigm.

I wasn't calling cash a credit paradigm. I was saying that obscured blockchains use bank accounts as their primary archetype rather than an anonymous commodity like gold by virtue of the fact that they ascribe blockchain addresses to people in the way a bank account does and gold doesn't.

That is folly because you then have to live with a whole load of conflicting priorities. For example, have you ever tried verifying a transaction in Monero ? You can't, because [...]

Cash isn't a "credit paradigm", not more than "a piece of gold" would be a credit paradigm.

For example, have you ever tried verifying a transaction in Monero ? You can't, because verification (by visual inspection - not by some meaningless transaction number) means observing 2 balances, not 1. It means verifying that the balance at one address moved in one direction and the balance at the other address moved in the other direction by the same amount. Monero only makes 1 of those balances visible because it throws every other priority out of the window for the sake of supporting this one flawed archetypal characteristic of bank accounts - obscurity.

(It's also the reason why its proponents bang on about 'privacy' to the exclusion of everything else - they have no choice).

Except that nobody in real life does any such thing.

I wasn't calling cash a credit paradigm. I was saying that obscured blockchains use bank accounts as their primary archetype rather than an anonymous commodity like gold by virtue of the fact that they ascribe blockchain addresses to people in the way a bank account does and gold doesn't.

That is folly because you then have to live with a whole load of conflicting priorities. For example, have you ever tried verifying a transaction in Monero ? You can't, because verification (by visual inspection - not by some meaningless transaction number) means observing 2 balances, not 1.

It means verifying that the balance at one address moved in one direction and the balance at the other address moved in the other direction by the same amount. Monero only makes 1 of those balances visible because it throws every other priority out of the window for the sake of supporting this one flawed archetypal characteristic of bank accounts - obscurity.

It's also the reason why its proponents bang on about 'privacy' to the exclusion of everything else - they have no choice. Hence the heavy use personal pronouns that always characterises their dialog when discussing blockchain addresses which is nonsense because an address no more represents a person than a peice of gold does. The fact that some off-chain information may lead to knowledge of who controlled a particular address at a particular time doesn't fundamentally change that fact because blockchains are not carrying "your money", they derive their value from the fact of being a public resource that you may have some control over.

Except that nobody in real life does any such thing.

If I mail someone a check, I don't verify that one balance moved in one direction and another balance moved in another direction - that's nonsense. Money is only moving in *one* direction, not two. And I only verify that the check was debited against my account - I don't (usually) have any way to see the account of the person I sent it to.

You're way out in left field.

Thousands of Bitcoin users are on blockchain.info day in day out doing exactly that.

In classic finance people don't do it because a trusted third party is doing it for them, otherwise known as as a clearing bank system. There's another area where obscured blockchains subscribe to that archetype - except in crypto there is no trusted third party to endorse the value in your account. In crypto it's the public who back it, hence Bitcoin's transparent, publicly auditable blockchain.

have more trust in cryptography than in accountants, honestly.

If I mail someone a check, I don't verify that one balance moved in one direction and another balance moved in another direction - that's nonsense. Money is only moving in *one* direction, not two.

Most people trust neither. They trust their own eyes and seeing only one side of the equation when 2 balances are involved I'm afraid doesn't "cut it".


This little peice of subjective innocence sounds like a good epitaph for your beloved "privacy coin".  ;)

Most people trust neither. They trust their own eyes and seeing only one side of the equation when 2 balances are involved I'm afraid doesn't "cut it".

Why do they trust addition, then ?

i think monero has a great future, and monero show a great development in crypto currency, however to become equal with bitcoin is still far away, bitcoin already famous and has become the pioneer for a long time, and had been through so many ups and downs, Monero still need a lot of phases before catching up with bitcoin

Trusting in theory is not the same thing as trusting in practice.

About the most flakey link in the whole chain of crypto are wallets - everybody knows that. The chance of your wallet showing you the right balance at any given moment is about as good as the chance of me scoring 100 out of 100 basketball set shots with one hand tied behind my back. (That isn't very high b.t.w.  ;)  ). Wallets stick, may be unsync'd, have backloged transactions - you name it. And thats just the un-hacked ones. None of this has anything to do with "trust in cryptography" or the number of PHD's you happen to have on your dev team.

If you don't trust crypto, then you cannot trust this whole procedure ; if you can't trust your wallet having done this correctly, then you don't know anything about the legitimity of any transaction.

extensive explanation

[toknormal] trust neither. [toknormal] trust their own eyes and seeing only one side of the equation when 2 balances are involved I'm afraid doesn't "cut it".

why would XMR replace BTC even BBR do more then XMR and SDC do much more then BBR

The reason i dumped MNR so long ago and never looked back was because development was slow and unimpressive focused on fundamentals that require a deeper than average understanding of crypto systems to appreciate rather than layered on flashy "features".

Have you ever heard of scientific controls ?

https://i.imgur.com/cofpxL2.png

In this case, the independent variable is the balance in the destination address and the dependent variables are just about every aspect of the blockchain mechanics that you cite in last previous post.

Your "double check" in bitcoin balances was nothing else but using twice the same valid transaction.

You go to great lengths to justify hiding the output of a user's own transaction from them.

Yet, the bitcoin network is 7 years old, fully transparent and benefits hugely from that transparency.

Maybe you need to rethink why.

Here's a clue: (And here's another one (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg11035761#msg11035761))

https://i.imgur.com/0zQuhw9.png

verifying the - against the + is not a double check at all.

Thats really disrespectful towards Howard Chu (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg16325802#msg16325802) and other dozens of Monero contributors that among other things reduced the blockchain size close to 50% in the lastest Monero release (https://getmonero.org/2016/09/19/monero-0.10.0-released.html), Ethereum is bloatware (http://ethereum.stackexchange.com/a/160) that increases the blockchain 10 fold what Bitcoin does, the "elite team of developers" indeed acts like a new kind of royalty bailing-out themselves in a criminal fraudulent hard-fork that will go down in history as how not to manage a cryptocurrency.

Moreover joke coins like SDC will never amount real live usage, no one in their sane state of mind would trust an instamined POS coin (https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/50ysp9/reminder_97_of_sdc_was_mined_in_2_weeks_and_it/) with its myriad of problems to lead the cryptocurrency movement.

and by "no one" I mean the people with $$$ that matter, pumps come and go but you can't fake good fundamentals, the money stick to these like magnets.

Because its my opinion, and I don't endorse instamined scams.

And he did a terrible job, https://shnoe.wordpress.com/2016/02/11/de-anonymizing-shadowcash-and-oz-coin/

I can see you have no idea what your talking about
https://decentralize.today/monero-had-the-same-bug-as-shadow-33a86ddeac2e#.3jqn7fyjr

Do you think you gain respect from shitting on everybody

You seem to be digging yourself a great big hole here. Please read this line back.

Even anecdotally it's dismissible.

 - You send a transaction to Poloniex using a blockchain address they supply
 - your local simplewallet app reports your balance reduced by the transaction amount
 - But the balance on your exchange account doesn't move for a whole day

Your "balance on an exchange" has nothing to do with a cryptocurrency...it is holding IOU on a website.

Actually, no, you're the one without a clue. The Monero code base never had that bug. The problem was discovered in private proof-of-concept code in a personal repo. That code was never in any Monero repository, let alone any released code. It was never a "Monero bug." It never had *any* impact on the Monero blockchain or Monero's users. But it *was* a bug in SDC's publicly released code, and it *did* allow de-anonymizing the entire SDC blockchain. The SDC developers were sloppy, pushing code into production without sufficient review. That demonstrates both poor quality developers *and* development practices.

Proof: you link to a ringCT commit from February 7 2016. https://github.com/ShenNoether/RingCT/commit/6640e808018bb47ea34fd112dbf2d2bef9c1156b
But the ringCT code wasn't merged into the Monero codebase until August 24, 2016. The merge was done only after months of intensive testing and refactoring. https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/961

Do you think you gain respect from lying through your teeth?
It's not "shitting on everybody" - it's calling out liars and scammers, which is what all honest communities must do.

You are a liar, I was going to type exactly what hyc said but got busy with other stuff, anyway the moral of history is you won't fool anyone here, shitcoiners gonna shitcoin and this thread is not about your scamcoin.

why you talk about things 2 years ago?

I don't think that Monero would replace bitcoin any time soon. Monero would need the same amount of press coverage that bitcoin has right now considering that most stores may have not heard of it.

You really are a piece of work.

Its quite clear what happened, and you come here accusing me of lying though my teeth.  Read my article the facts are not disputed here.

https://decentralize.today/monero-had-the-same-bug-as-shadow-33a86ddeac2e#.56mx91ypi

We can see the Monero fix here on the 7th Feb:

https://github.com/ShenNoether/RingCT/commit/6640e808018bb47ea34fd112dbf2d2bef9c1156b
https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/commit/b215a98a749c452c0a0336ab4ee93b1d71df2e78

Then on the 11th Feb Shen Noether wrote this public blog: Broken Crypto in Shadowcash

So if I use a blockchain address to command my wallet to execute a transaction, I also need to use that address to test the result. With obscured blockchains, this is not possible (because they were originally conceived of to transport fiat (http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/articles/money/nsamint/nsamint.htm) with a trusted party in the loop, not unbacked crypto). Thats why this is an obsolete archetype.

I don't think that Monero would replace bitcoin any time soon. Monero would need the same amount of press coverage that bitcoin has right now considering that most stores may have not heard of it.

Thanks, I understand that very well   ;)

That is exactly why symmetrical audits are required on a transaction - any transaction, be it an accounting package, a blockchain or a chemical plant mass balance because that tells you whether the problem lies in the IOU or in the blockchain.

So if I use a blockchain address to command my wallet to execute a transaction, I also need to use that address to test the result.

With obscured blockchains, this is not possible

The flaw in this (encrypted blockchain) design isn’t in the technology which I accept works fine, it’s in the original design archetype. It is made to work like a bank account from the account holder’s perspective where you can only see” your stuff” and nobody else’s. But even that system has controls because there is a brokering party that DOES have access to a symmetric transaction audit and the account holder has recourse to that trusted party.

You're not only a liar, you're a moron. But here's one thing that no one can argue with - github itself doesn't lie. And it is a fact that the github commits you linked to, from Shen, were never in public use in any Monero release. The commits you linked to were specific to ringCT and ringCT+multisig. RingCT itself has only been merged into monero's master repository on August 24. Everything is spelled out in exactly the commits you referenced.

This is a direct quote from your blog:

Both of those commits are prototype ringCT code. Neither of those were ever in Monero's released code. RingCT code only went into Monero on August 24. The commit history is indisputable.

Your "not disputed facts" are completely false.

Wait. Are you under the impression that it is not possible to determine whether the monero you send has arrived on the address you intended for it to arrive on?

I am implying that two parties should be able to use the same criteria to test the presence or absence of a balance at a given address, regardless of whether they hold a private key to that address or not.

That is a fundamental control which Bitcoin supports and is what supports a growth in shared consensus of the blockchain state.

It's not enough to have a ticket to say "your money arrived ok", since that is an uncontrolled test and isn't the one that the other party will be using. That asymmetry is the flaw in audibility.

.....and you see that that transaction is accepted on the block chain, then you KNOW that A has gotten 5 coins more in his balance

Monero replace Bitcoin? I almost see every altcoin has that dream, but bitcoin is still and always the king. Monero will get zero chance to replace it, not to say "soon", lmao.

thats nonsense, you are right, monero will never have a possibility to replace bitcoins in the future

RingCT means that amounts of each transaction are also hidden?
Doing a search now but some of these papers discussing cryptography are way over my head.

Yeah Monero definitely has some really interesting things going on in terms of privacy.
Its no surprise that some of the darknet markets have started accepting it for payment.
I bought a bit of Monero and I really hope that it becomes more widely adopted.

No. You do not know.

I will give a longer reply later