Bitcoin Forum

What happened: Betnomi.com (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5279745.0) went down for 'scheduled maintenance' on the 2nd July without any prior notice. One month has been passed, yet there is no official announcement about the downtime and the users stuck funds. Betnomi.com is showing this message since 25th July: 'This Edge Function has crashed'. Perhaps, the administrators have taken down the website intentionally. A small number of users have complained about stuck funds on Betnomi here in the forum.

• 0.9 BTC of GekkeBelg (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5279745.msg62593162#msg62593162)
• $20k of Stayzor (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5462045.0)
• €5.3k of boroBTC (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5279745.msg62626397#msg62626397)
• 300 USDT of marcloig (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5458296.msg62601336#msg62601336)
• Unknown amount of illmatic010101 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5458296.msg62529762#msg62529762)

Let's have a look into some other and old facts regarding Betnomi.

Fake team:
The first complaint was raised in 2019 against Betnomi team. It was related to the fake team and fake ICO project. A flag was created against them, and Betnomi representative had received some negative feedbacks too. But the flag was withdrawn later and some negative feedback was turned into neutral. Betnomi team had solved it by sending PM to some forum members and by running a review campaign (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5240029.0).

• [SCAM] BETNOMI - Fake team, ID and Linkedin used without owner authorizations (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5104319.0) (New title: Old file - to erase) (Archived version (http://archive.is/NUdsW))
• PM from betnomi. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5241088.0)

Users data was moved to a dummy website Betnomi.bet and wiped from Betnomi.com:
In the October month of 2021, Betnomi team had registered a new domain Betnomi.bet and moved the Betnomi.com database in it. They had wiped all the data from Betnomi.com after moving it into Betnomi.bet. As a result, Betnomi.com became like a new platform and old affiliate partners had lost all the affiliate benefits. (Read here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5279745.msg58139923#msg58139923))

Things that happened since 2nd July:
• On 3rd July: (https://talkimg.com/images/2023/07/29/Q5RKa.jpeg) An admin of Betnomi said that they will relaunch the website with in-house games. The message has been deleted later from the telegram group.
• On July 3rd and 4th (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5279745.msg62500896#msg62500896): Some users said that they received their pending withdrawal.
• On 8th July: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5458296.msg62519751#msg62519751) icopress said that he got a response from Sorsis (Betnomi admin).
• On 16th July: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5458296.msg62556265#msg62556265) Some forum members have confirmed that they have started receiving suspicious and spam messages from unknown websites on the email address which they used on Betnomi.
• On 19th July: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5458296.msg62570525#msg62570525) icopress has said that Sorsis (Betnomi admin) will give an announcement in the forum soon. Unfortunately, we haven't heard anything from them yet.
• On 1st August: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5458296.msg62632934#msg62632934) A forum member has highlighted that Betnomi team has deleted their Linkedin public page.

What is left now:
• Betnomi telegram group (https://t.me/betnomi)
• Betnomi twitter account (https://twitter.com/betnomi)
• Betnomi instagram account (https://www.instagram.com/betnomi/)
• Linkedin profile of Sorsis Chatwin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/sorsischatwin/) (Betnomi admin)
• Some information about Sorsis Chatwin (https://uspto.report/TM/98019628) on the Betnomi's trademark application page

Note: It will be appreciated if any victims create a flag against Betnomi. I will add the flag link here.

A newbie/guest warning flag has been created by logfiles.
Support flag: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=3209

Thanks for the topic. Probably within a week or two I will create a flag against the Betnomi since they owe me a huge amount.

I also wrote to Sorsis yesterday, (on July 18 he promised to return at the end of August and pay), he read my message, but has not answered yet.

Should the signature campaign funds, if any leftover funds, not be used to pay the victims?

Betnomi's Signature campaign has been on hold since April, also, judging that icopress is waiting to be paid by Sorsis for the job he has done(not sure if it is being the manager of their campaign), I'd say that there are no funds left on the wallet for Betnomi's Signature Campaign.

Stayzor is about to create a scam accusation and raise a flag, if I am not mistaken. They asked for a guidance --and provided-- on how to create a scam accusation thread on Betnomi's ANN thread.


February, if I get it right from the announcement on the signature ann thread, the one continued on and got hold on April is the avatar campaign.

And to answer your question about fund, JCLadisav, the wallet is already empty. I won't be surprised if icopress paid part of the final payment from his own pocket.

It is unfortunate that this is happening and many had to go through pains and inconveniences for their funds stuck at betnomi casino. This issue has been on for long and many were hoping that they would come back to settle or pay pending withdrawals but the reverse was the case. It's so sad to see Ones hard earned resources get lost in such a situation and all efforts put in place to get it back seems abortive. What a devastating situation and manager has chosen to go mute without responding or a message to their campaign manager they owe for long now.
At this point it would be very difficult to withhold anything petition against the betnomi casino and team as a whole. This is more clear a scam act perpetrated by them.

Betnomi signature campaign only runs for a few weeks but is not a long-term one that keeps funds with the manager and even if there were escrow fund during the campaign, the balance would have been exhausted before the end of the campaign, how much is the weekly signature budget by betnomi it just a few hundred $ so it won't change anything even if they are ruining a current campaign.
Betnomi played a well-planned scam on the whole community with their questionable characters they were able to convince the community with the deceptive move through various reviews and tournaments that make forum members to feel at home with them.

Can you please create flag against all the accounts that are belong to Betnomi. I will request OP to collect all the flags and accounts' URLs then add it on the main thread body. It will help all of us to support the flags and leave negative feedback.

People who deposit in Betnomi are idiots. If you got stolen, you got what you deserved.
I warned people many times on the forum that it is a scam project and that they steal your funds, but nobody wanted to listen.
Now face the consequences! That happens when you don't want to listen and being naive to believe the corrupt DT accounts on the forum.

What value are you actually bringing to this thread? You're talking about funding for a sig campaign and what managers should be doing(BTW they know what they should be doing) when the thread is about Betnomi exit scamming.

Go get your post quota elsewhere!!

I am not directly affected victim, but I have my theory what is happening with betnomi and maybe there is possible connection with another casino that showed up recently.
This is my speculation but lot of weird things happened that made me think sorsis intentionally slowly shut down betnomi and started new casino with different name and new token.
Maybe it has to do something with legal stuff and his branding being rejected license or he just wants to start again and try to fool people invest in new casino token.
When I collect more information and find connections maybe I will post details about this. 

Sorry to hear this icopress and I hope you still get paid money you earned.
It is crazy what he is doing with people who worked with him, and I had my reservations if they are shutting down betnomi for good or not, but I think this is game over for them.

I got a reply today... I tried to explain that he's not the only one with problems.

In any case, I have no choice but to wait. Although if among the victims there is someone from the United States, write to me.

Last thing he said is HOPEFULLY and that does not sound good at all ::)
Anyway I know you are managing campaigns so please watch out for any new casinos that showed up in bitcointalk forum in last few months, they could be owned or co-owned by the same people.
I contacted few members who can help me conducting deeper research about this connection, maybe I can send you information if you want.

Yeah, such response doesn't gives much hope that this situation will be resolved. We were waiting for response from him for so long, but after we finally got, sitaution doesn't become more clear at all. Giving such answers to questions is almost same like telling nothing.

Would you mind sharing some more details? I wouldn't mind doing some sniffing around to check a few boxes....

---

Wow, that's really unfortunate and I'm actually sorry to hear. It's not really relevant now, but as far as I can remember, I never actually got paid anything for the time I was helping him/the brand. It sort of got delayed to a  "we will talk about it" and then it never actually happened before we had that problem. But still; I find it surprising to hear that someone that I remember talking about how he had a few tens of BTC (it's 2:30 am, my memory may be fuzzy) saying that he has trouble accessing funds. I understand you wanting to wait; but I also think you've waited enough before pulling the trigger.

They have the upper hand, they're going to let you wait some more, I am sure that this will all just lead to more waiting. In the transcript of your conversation, I can already imply that they're trying to make it sound like they need your pity and that they're problem is bigger than any of their customers and seeing how much money from the customers are stuck, I don't think it's going to be returned. I hope that I'm wrong about my speculation that they're not going to answer the questions about their credibility but the odds are stacked against them and they're not communicating clearly to establish some assurance.

I can confirm the same thing. I have several emails from some CrashOut site on the email I registered my Betnomi account with. The subjects mention welcome bonuses, free money bonuses, and free spins. I never signed up on or ever visited that site. Betnomi could have suffered a hack or a data leak which could explain all this.

That doesn't look good. But a valid question would be why delete their Linkedin page and not do the same for Twitter, Instagram, and Telegram? There hasn't been any activity on social media from their side since May.

Sure I can do that, just check your PM.
I will send you basic information I have, but I am still in process of collecting more evidence for direct connections between this casinos.
My hope is that someone could fill the gaps and provide additional information I dont know so that we can see if I was right or not.

To all Betnomi victims:

TrustDice is officially offering a free bonus to Betnomi victims. More details can be found here.  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5461952)

I remember when this went down back then. It was at the tail end of the ICO days, when the investor money stopped flowing like wine. What I remember the most is this picture from the archived version (https://archive.is/NUdsW) of the scam accusation thread:

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/08/03/GdJjW.png

As @stompix pointed out at the time,


That picture reminded me of South Park humans:

https://media3.giphy.com/media/3o6ZsTN7mYn4CadRxS/giphy_s.gif?cid=6c09b95253eywus18gbhyy57d4mgnhhsxin4nkwry5mn3vli&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy_s.gif&ct=g

This was a particularly long-lasting scam... they must have found that running a casino somewhat honestly was profitable, so they kept it going for a long while, until it wasn't. It still goes to show that the warning signs were indeed there from the very beginning.

Can you also send me the name of the casino in PM? I will try to help you if I can.

For the requirement of Betnomi's licence operator, United States was in the restricted countries list in their terms. Still there could be some players from the USA, but you will hardly find any real victims from that country.

They are closing the doors gradually by giving hope to the victims. Betnomi team is getting the advantages of this method, none of the victim has taken any serious step against Betnomi until now.

Yep, "long-lasting scam" as they were able to change the opinion of the forum member after the fake team and fake ICO project issue. Moreover, the had gained a strong support and great reputation in the forum by running free bet offers and by giving 'Cold Wallet' through free raffle (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5441706.0). Betnomi had also sponsored in Bitcointalk community awards (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5422131.0) and Bitcointalk Pie baking contest (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5439781.0). A few many forum members have received custom cold wallet from Betnomi! That's why the forum members ignored the warnings.

Dude, their marketing budget is way over what they could get (from the information we have). In addition, all information about their CEO (including IP and much more is known and confirmed) and I tend to think it all came about because of some very crappy management skills. Need to be an idiot to show your real data everywhere, be a resident of the USA (where they are quite strict about fraud) and at the same time think about Exit Scam.

I mean, I would bet that we have seen worse, haven't we?

Bad management did for sure play a big role in this whole fiasco; the way many things weren't automated and had to be manually approved by the owner (although a lot could have changed in those 2 years we didn't talk) and bragging about hacking and saying people "stalk" him because it is known that he has some over 20ish BTC... And I would even stretch it a bit further. If you know you are not capable of running something, and still try/don't care about the outcome; aren't you in a way also scamming your users (when things indeed go south).

It's not related to this problem, but I do remember parts of what happened to their ICO. AFAIK, the investors never saw a cent out of it, and the idea back in the day was to re-launch the ico token but migrating to a different network and take once again money from investors. I never heard the end of it tho.

Can you point me to reference materials so that I can review this?

Since a year and a half of acquaintance with all kinds of dramas around Betnomi, I hear about this story for the first time.

The exit scam of Betnomi won't be a big thing for Sorsis if his carding story is true. There is no way to verify anything until someone meet him in real life. He could be an idiot too, you will know everything before us if you take steps with the information which you have acquired.

They planned the whole scam from day one... We only got fooled and accepted that they had reformed only to pull off an exit scam.

OP this is the archive to the erased OP of the thread - http://archive.is/NUdsW

Can you explain what exactly "carding skills" means on this context, please? Because I have carding skills and I don't scam anyone. I must be missing something here.

Carding as in copying/duplicating credit cards and "getting 18k worth of goods a month".

You GOSUS (ehm, GUYS) might wanna take a look at this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5290792.0 ;)

Here is it


One of the employees of Betnomi (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5290792.msg55626301#msg55626301) had posted some screenshot of the conversation with Sorsis in 2020. Where Sorsis said that he "was carding over 18k USD worth of items weekly (https://ibb.co/JHJHjGN)". Sorsis also claimed that he had compromised 28k computers (https://ibb.co/Jt6PdWW) by creating a rat (remote access trojan).

Actually, running a review campaign shouldn't be a solution and I personally think that overall, giving a second chance is a bad decision, it looks like giving a second bullet to someone after avoiding the first shot.
I saw the archive of original scam accusation thread, they shouldn't be forgiven for what they did!

Lol. Since you could play poker at Betnomi, I was thinking of something like being good at cards, not this kind of fraud.

I imagine they took advantage of the "no one everyone (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5461815.msg62655126#msg62655126) is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt," which I've been talking about lately on the forum.

Stayzor has made his own accusation thread about his case with Betnomi, here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5462045.0). OP, you probably should edit your opening post and change the link to his case from the existing one (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5458296.msg62569044#msg62569044) [which redirect to his post on one of thread about Betnomi] to his specific accusation thread. This thread might could serve as an "index" for the cases against Betnomi.

I'm amazed by this number, which means that not only this guy was genius (in terms of being a scammer) by stealing the users' credit card data they would be using on the gambling site (it was allowed to deposit via CC on their site IIRC) or he'd have lots of other stuff where he'd have been selling something and stealing the data, and that trojan is also a part of that steal (by getting the access of PCs) as he'd have sold all that data online to various customers and made enough from there too. The world of internet has become too much evil.  :(

This Edge Function has crashed message hasn't been replaced the site isn't working.

https://i.ibb.co/n0PkTyb/betnomi.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

Betnomi.com were famous. They've sponsored threads they've used sig campaigns so if they've scammed it's sad because ppl trusted them. Who's behind the Betnomi.bet website? If it's the same team they're making a mistake using Betnomi's name again because ppl won't get trapped again.

If you bother to read the entire post you quoted, or read other threads related to this case, you'll understand that betnomi[dot]bet was one of their older domain

Sure.
I sent you the same message like all other members who asked for it.
There are some connections between them but I am not sure if they are owned by same guys or not, so this needs to be investigated better and they slowly started to remove evidence.
I dont know if they are classic exit scam because I dont see many people complaining they lost money on betnomi, and I agree with people who say they had bad management.
I can add they had very bad security so dont be surprised if you receive calls from unknown guys with strange accents, if you had verified betnomi account.

It would not be the first time to see criminals trying to move money in more legal businesses and later shutting down all companies.
I saw many examples with scammers doing crypto, ICO and gambling.

But you are innocent here with your carding skill in a table game :P.

Is it 'no one' or 'everyone'?

---

Several forum members have said that they had small funds on Betnomi, but they won't take any action as the amount is small. You are one of them too (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5461952.msg62641823#msg62641823). BTW, every victim doesn't know about Bitcointalk. And some of them eagerly waiting for Betnomi to come back as they had created similar situation before. As a result, we aren't seeing a lot of complaints here.

It's obviously "everyone". Thanks for pointing that out, I've edited it.

He's deleted the post after you've told him.

They've used fake profiles (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2532772) so it should've been the end of them using in the forum when they were exposed in 2021. Why wasn't Betnomi booted from the forum if warning signs were there from the very beginning. Could it be they've gained trusts because of sig campaigns and paying for competitions?

Your reference doesn't lead to anything about fake profiles that I can see. Did I miss miss something? The fake team deal?

They gave an explanation and got the benefit of doubt and were running the casino in an honest manner. If they had scam accusations pop in and couldn't accurately defend themselves, things may have went differently.

Come on, this thread is not even two pages long. Almost like what my previous post and reply to you on this same thread said, this time, if you bother to read the references on the trust page where the link of "fake profile" you gave redirect us to, you'll understand that the person you quoted, nutildah, is one that's very familiar with that fake profile information you gave. Or... even better, if you tried to carefully read the threads you're about to post, any threads in the future, you won't ended up like a spammer which ironically you quoted as deleting their post when warned and pointed out.

Now, as for why they're not "booted" from the forum, it's because forum does not moderate scam activities. And to answer your question of could it be... again, the opening post made by OP has described the possible reason; they build their trust for a slow rug pull.

You didn't miss anything. Saying fake profiles was wrong I should've said fake team.

https://i.ibb.co/zWMXBJC/betnomi.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

If they planned it from the very beginning  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5461815.msg62657423#msg62657423) it's disappointing they weren't shackled when under suspicion in 2019. The benefit of doubt led them running a long scam.

I've found the link. So this post's where the betnomi[dot]com & betnomi[dot]bet connections were made. I've checked the sites seconds ago the [dot]bet version's operating but [dot]com isn't. If we're aware they're behind both websites why'd they keep one open but close the other? They've got the software so they can open clones under new logos. It's a strange way to scam if they're telling ppl where to find their next scam.

I really don't see how anyone could think they pulled off a long con or rug pull.

Let's start with the number of scam accusations against the site. I haven't seen very man in this section. So they haven't made a million dollars from that.

Now let's look at the number of dollars spent on contests and promotions.  Pretty sure there is a decent number of dollars added up in that area. On top of that, the money they spent paying their team for moderating, managers, live chat, or other services.

Now, where people should have had issues(including myself) is when we started seeing or experiencing delays in payments. Delays in withdrawals.

I'm by no means on the side of Betnomi here as I think they're cowards for not providing an explanation. I do however think that they just ran out of money, they kept trying to promote the site and spend spend spend, but eventually they just had no more to give.

It's not a good excuse and I cannot prove it, just what I think probably happened. I definitely do not think they rug pulled and scammed a large sum of money. I cannot prove that either, just the feeling I get.

You seem to forget, not everybody it at bitcointalk. There are plenty of people playing at betnomi without ever hearing about our forum. So just because you don't find a lot of scam accusations doesn't mean there are a lot of victims.

For example, I have been playing at stake, sp.io, nitrogen around 5 years ago already, and I came to this forum just 1.5 years ago, never even heard of it before. So your argument doesn't have a lot merit.

I think it is a scam, plain and simple. Otherwise there would be some sort of communication. Since there isn't any, it is easy to assume the worst. And that's just my opinion.

Because of what I commented before. The trust system is a fact finding system, a posteriori, rather than a preventive system, which is how I think it should be used.

So, the majority opinion is that this type of cases in the forum should be treated as if it were a criminal case in which someone is only convicted when there is evidence beyond reasonable doubt. Then, potential scammers take advantage of it. Just by being careful they can scam or set the stage for it for a while.

And then what happens is that when they have already scammed a lot of money and don't show up on the forum again, then they get 17 red tags on their profiles and flags massively supported, when it's too late.

If they've overspent they've destroyed their rep and business. They should've ran the site professionally. I can't stop my feeling if the scam wasn't deliberate exit now they could've exit any time tomorrow. That's why they've used fake teams in 2019.

Working in this way it's easy for scammers entering the forum with fake teams. They'll leave with scammed bitcoin inside their pockets in exchanged for 17 red tags on their profile. That isn't the best solution.

For some people it's hard to understand how freedom is supposed to work. The forum doesn't moderate and delete scams. It's not up to admins to prove who is trying to exit scam and who is not, decide who is right and wrong in an argument between forum members.
When you see a scam, it's up to you to post about it, warn other users and to it in a way that will change their mind about the business.

It's also funny how after the scam suddenly everybody thinks they knew it from the start and saw the red flags. We're all wise after the fact.

We know they didnt pay what they owe to one manager from bitcointalk, and maybe we are going to see people who worked for them start to write in forum soon.
When I saw first they are doing everything manually for withdrawals it was strange to me, than they said they introduced new automatic withdrawals but withdrawals continue to be slower and slower.
I dont know if they lied about everything they say or not, but this was not good indicator for me.

One guy now claims they scammed him for $20000 and he create scam accusation against them.
I am sure they had more than one customer  ;D

It could be the beginning of more complainants. If they've closed the site because of bad business decisions like yahoo62278 says it didn't mean they had to scam workers or users.

$20000 isn't small it's life changing in countries where ppl find life difficult. Betnomi should've closed after paying debts. If they don't pay debts they're scamming every user with account balances accounts because they can't withdraw from a shut website.

It may not be a rug pull but it's a scam. If they had bad business or ran out of money, they could share the fact and walk away but they didn't take that approach. They would give an explanation if they were in that situation. Not sure how many gamblers they were able to attract from bitcointalk but gamblers from bitcointalk are a very small part of a casino (in addition, the bad reputation they had from the beginning). Moreover, there are few gamblers who told they haven't lost much. That's why we aren't getting lots of accusations.

I haven't really followed this case until now. I've updated the Donator link on loyce.club. It now points towards this topic.

This 4 years old feedback turns out to be correct again:
https://loyce.club/other/betnomiscam.png

It's not the first time we've seen that. "Fake it till you make it" (or break it).
Even if it wasn't intentional, they should have had safeguards in place so they could always pay their users. The bankroll shouldn't be considered spending money.

They worked well to prove the feedback sender wrong. Not anymore though. Even a month ago I think it was hard to guess anything negative about them. What have not they done to the forum? Sponsored Champions League pool, sponsored bitcointalk award winners, free Ledger refile, signature campaign and many ore marketing. I don't think the exit plan was not suddenly something that came to their mind. They were planing for it from long time. Hopefully we will not find victims who lost everything in Betnomi. There are concerns of those Ledger device they sent to the winners.

That's a risk indeed. Just in case: don't use it.
Does Betnomi have their shipping address, or did someone else ship them? I wouldn't want someone who pulled an exit scam to know my physical location.

Just quoting from the other thread; they indeed don't look good

The minimum amount of ledgers you would need to buy through the official ledger website is ~300 if I remember correctly.

I highly doubt that sorsis spent 100x 80 USD or so...

Edit: https://www.ledger.com/co-branded-partnership#standard

It's good point indeed. It's really possible that exit scam was planned and prepared long time ago. After they sponsored few prediction raffles, made some contests and etc, it didn't looked so, but now when you look at these old red flags that not many of us noticed or didn't paid attention, it's really possible.
I'm one of people who got Ledger wallet from them. Now I don't remember from where it was sent, even country of origin. Box and it's content wasn't touched - it was brand new. But probably it's better safe than sorry and avoid using it.

The post was deleted by the moderator, not by the user itself. I had reported it as an off-topic post even before the reply of yahoo62278. BTW, you aren't adding anything new in this thread. Whatever you are trying to highlight here has already been described or added as a reference in the main post. 'holydarkness' has tried to inform you twice in this thread, read the main post carefully and read the post of the users carefully to whom you are pointing out something. Don't make unnecessary posts here.

Every casino spends huge amount of money: through contests and promotions, by paying their staff, by making sponsorship deals with sports teams, for the marketing purpose and development of the site. There was nothing exceptional on Betnomi. But they had created a positive impression in Bitcointalk by spending their marketing money here.

We don't know if the ledgers are capable of stealing. It wouldn't be possible Betnomi corrupting ledgers with crypto stealing code if they're sent from the supplier direct. You're at risk if Betnomi ordered to get them first because it's giving them time to repack before sending them with recoding. If you don't remember the sender origin you're advice better safe than sorry is best beyond question. This thread's discussing it Betnomi scam exit & past winners must be careful with Betnomi-branded wallets (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5462136.0)

I don't use ledgers. I'm trying stacking sats but if I had quantity I wouldn't use ledgers because if they've been tampered in delivery I'll lose it. Delivery interceptions isn't the only worry in ledgers. If you don't focus copy paste addresses you'll suffer ledger address poisoning scams (https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/8473509294365-Beware-of-address-poisoning-scams) so ledgers aren't safe even if they aren't from Betnomi.

Since I was getting quoted from that topic and the images didn't work anymore as I was too lazy to let the bot run all night to convert them to talkimg.

This is how it started:



The issue was dropped since it was indeed a modified picture but it wasn't really a fake one, I never pursued the thing anymore.
So now if you ask me the fake thing did not really apply, unless it wasn't really that guy behind the team, and I have like zero idea what happened afterwards.

Don't know if this is a good place to post it, but after seeing the warnings about malware in betnomi ledgers, I've opened mine and it looked good. No sign of tampering and the board was identical to the pictures of genuine ledgers.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/08/08/GJNGT.jpeg


In my case icopress gave the address to someone from betnomi and they sent the package. There was no real name of the sender on the label, just a nickname. I have the point of origin on my tracking, but it's only a post office location.


It's 100.

300 minimum is for custom packaged ledgers. The one that I got was only with logo, no custom packaging.

Good to see your efforts for investigation. But it's hard to give opinion and know unless you are an expert. However I will suggest this is not the end, since there are doubts, it's wise not to use it for huge sum of money. Use it for regular daily trades but to save your crypto use a device which have no bad reputation.

I just noticed now this topic. And I remember I saw a post once ago made by them, talking about these hardware wallets used by them during raffles. After some research I found the respective post, which was made on Arpil 11th, 2023:


However, I found another post made from their secondary account, stating something a little contradictory...


So at some point in time, this personalisation of the products was possible, then it was not possible anymore... (or, maybe, it was not possible anymore in some conditions which they agreed on?). In any case, the source of  the Ledgers should be now clear (based on their statement, at least): they bought them a while ago, for their employees so this is why they had a remaining stash which was offered through raffles or other contests.

---

I won 3 such Ledgers from Betnomi. In my case all 3 were shipped by minerjones. And all arrived in perfect condition.

If the board looks the same and there is no evidence of any modifications, they should be ok. Also, if it connects with genuine versions of Ledger Live that you downloaded from the official website and not a fake one that you were instructed to use with information in the package, it's a sign you are using a real Ledger. We are yet to see a fake/modified Ledger that can connect to Ledger servers, install the needed crypto apps, update the firmware, etc.   

Yeah, so I think I have something interesting about it to add.... Just taking some messages of my chat with sorsis from back in the day


It's not really an important message, but if he was already talking to the brand in 2020, how is it possible that in 2022 it was imppossible to do, and then again in 2023 it had already been done?

Correct. That's why the only way for scammers to abuse a hardware wallet is either to make a seed and hope the buyer is dumb enough to use it, or connect their own data storage straight to the USB that works alongside the wallet. If the board doesn't have an sd card or something soldered to it and the wallet passes ledger's checkup it should be OK to use. I've never seen a modified hardware wallet where the attackers replaced the chips so that the board looks the same at first glance but has completely different data on it.


Does Ledger even offer such personalized products, so that each of them has a different name?
That user asked for usernames to be printed on ledgers, which would be impossible without repackaging already ordered products.

The admin or moderators of Betnomi's telegram group are deleting the messages which aren't in their favour. So, they are watching everything silently and keeping the reputation clean there. Isn’t it the sign of a legit operator :P

---

Is there any update about your payment? Have you received any updates from Sorsis after 2nd August?

This is just few people who received those wallets, but they already now locations and emails from all customers who registered on their website with full KYC verification  :P
Everyone is receiving spam email messages who registered on betnomi even without kyc, and I wont be surprised if phone calls starts for those who performed veirification.
In worst case scenario betnomi was hacked, but if that was the case they should come out and say that in public not hide like rats.
In best case scenario they decided to slowly and quietly shut down operation of their website.

As far as I understand from one earlier post made by icopress, he was told that the payment will be sent to him at end of August:

Most probably it was a typing mistake from icopress. Because, icopress said a different thing in his next post where he posted the conversation between him and Sorsis.

After my earlier post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5461815.msg62666684#msg62666684), being also inspired by pixie85's post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5461815.msg62666107#msg62666107) and by icopress' suggestion, I decided to check the hardware integrity of the Ledger I received from Betnomi.

In theory, on their website (https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/4404382029329-Check-hardware-integrity?support=true) the required steps look simple, yet the practice is the one which always kills us. All I found there was this:


Obviously, those were not commands which could be simply typed in a Command Prompt window. So after some digging I understood that I have first to install Python. You can get Python from here: https://www.python.org/downloads. Alternatively, you can also download it from Microsoft store. I downloaded Python 3.11.4.

Following some articles I found on the Internet, I understood that Visual Studio 2017 build tools may also be needed on Windows. As I wanted to make sure I have all prerequisites, I also installed this software (so I don't know if everything works without it). Visual Studio 2017 build tools can be downloaded from here: https://www.visualstudio.com/downloads/#build-tools-for-visual-studio-2017.

If you want to make sure you installed Python properly, you can run this command (directly in a Command Prompt window -- so just press Start - Run - cmd or press Windows key + R): python --version. You should see something like this:

https://i.ibb.co/4s3sd3S/version.png

Then you'll need to install pip, which is a Python package manager, which may come or not together with your Python build. Following some tutorials about Python (https://docs.python-guide.org/dev/virtualenvs/), I reached this page (https://pip.pypa.io/en/stable/installation/) and from here you can download pip (https://bootstrap.pypa.io/get-pip.py). You will see in your Download folder a file named get-pip.py.

Afterwards you have to run this command (Command Prompt): python get-pip.py. This will install pip.

Having pip installed, you can ensure about this by typing the following command (in Command Prompt): pip --version.  You should see something like this:

https://i.ibb.co/s9zJTbV/version2.png

Additionally, you'll need to install a Virtual Environment for Python, in order to be able to run the commands for checking the hardware integrity (I know, it already sounds like a pain in the ass only by reading everything I wrote here but imagine how it feels to actually do all these (!) and find all the information necessary in order to be able to make this check... :)). So following the same tutorial page for Python I installed first Pipenv, which allows you to install Python packages, then I installed Virtualenv, which "creates a folder which contains all the necessary executables to use the packages that a Python project would need". In order to install these, you need to run these commands (in Command Prompt): pip install --user pipenv and pip install virtualenv.

Next step is to install Python tools for Ledger Blue, Nano S and Nano X, which can be found here (https://github.com/ledgerhq/blue-loader-python). In order to be able to do this you need to run the following commands (in Command Prompt): python3 -m venv ledger and pip install ledgerblue.

After finishing all these we finally get back to the command shown on Ledger website: python -m ledgerblue.checkGenuineRemote --targetId 0x33000004 -- but we do not run the command yet (keep reading below). The part "0x33000004" is the TargetID, meaning a code of your product. The entire list of TargetIDs is available on the website I mentioned above (obviously, none of these can be found directly on Ledger's website so you need deep Internet search for obtaining all this information):


As I wrote above, the command should not be entered yet. This is because the Ledgers from Betnomi have an old firmware (2.0.1) and the command works with newer firmware versions. So at this point you need to perform a firmware update (if you haven't already), which can be done through the Ledger Live app. For those not aware (there may be still a few of them), Ledger Live app can be downloaded from Ledger website: https://www.ledger.com/ledger-live. After installation is done select the tab My Ledger. There will be two firmware updates available. First one will upgrade the Ledger's firmware from 2.0.1 to 2.2.1. Second upgrade will bring the firmware 2.2.2 to your Ledger. However, the command for checking the hardware integrity can be run after having the firmware 2.2.1. You should see something like this:

https://i.ibb.co/ZYcVv5X/version3.png

Reaching this point, you must have the Ledger connected to your PC / laptop and also make sure it is not in standby. For obvious reasons, the command won't do anything if the wallet is not connected to the PC. And, if it is in standby mode you'll get a long error message, ending with Connection to remote host was lost. However, assuming that the device is connected and it is not in standby mode, run the command python -m ledgerblue.checkGenuineRemote --targetId 0x33000004. You will receive a warning on your Ledger screen, which you need to confirm.

And finaaaaaaaaaaally, after all these, I received this confirmation:

https://i.ibb.co/1GKYfDF/version4.png

It was a lot of work but, at least, I was assured that the Ledgers from Betnomi are genuine. Or, at least, I was  50% assured. To ensure the remaining 50% I proceeded to open the device, in order to check its PCB.

---

---

---

Warning: performing the steps mentioned below may destroy your device. If you won't destroy it then you'll certainly lose the warranty.

This part may also sound simple, but it's not simple at all. You need to pay a lot of attention, as the product looks like a capsule (obviously, it was not meant to be opened) and it has no screw. Trying to break its case open may break it so your device may be totally damaged. However, since I won 3 such Ledgers from Betnomi I afforded the risks.

So first step is to remove the grey part branded with Betnomi from the wallet. The grey part should be lifted (in a delicate manner) from the grey button of the wallet. It can be removed relatively easy.

https://i.ibb.co/7kHB5BN/1.jpg

Now the important part comes. You need a very thin screwdriver or a very thin knife or any other sharp thing which is also very thin. If you look around the display, you'll see a very thin line -- this is the line where the part of the case protecting the display is assembled with the rest of the product. The screw driver should be used for forcing it into this thin line, in order to detach this part of the case from the other part of it. This should be done with a lot of attention, as at this step the device may become broken. In order to avoid this you may try to push the screwdriver between the part with the display and the rest of the wallet case on multiple spots of this thin line, thus getting some more weak spots which, in the end, will make the detaching of the display more easy.

By pure chance, I had a minuscule screwdriver and I used it for the surgery operation:

https://i.ibb.co/1LtLS5w/3.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/Gt543mC/2.jpg

Then I used the grey part, which I previously removed, and I inserted it in the small opening made by the screwdriver, to keep that part open. Having a part already open, I used the screwdriver to force the opening more:

https://i.ibb.co/1mQGy0q/4.jpg

I proceeded with caution for the rest of the thin line until the case fully opened.

At this point I had to pay a lot of attention, as the navigation buttons are not attached to the PCB, nor to the external side of the case. They are not attached to anything and only the fact that they enter in the holes of the case keeps them at place. So I took them out, hoping to remember the correct place of each one.

https://i.ibb.co/5k3WPbF/5.jpg

The display is on the other side of the PCB (as seen in the image from above) and it is connected to the PCB through a small interface, so you can manipulate it to a side, since it is not attached on the PCB. This is important, because by moving it to a side you can check the entire side of the PCB where it is placed.

In the end, I could take these pictures of both sides of the PCB:

https://i.ibb.co/0DX8y3s/7.png

Next step was to compare the PCB details with the images shown on Ledger's website (https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/4404382029329-Check-hardware-integrity?support=true). There are 4 hardware revisions of these Ledgers, having different PCB colors. The PCB of my device is green, which corresponds to Revision 4. And, by analyzing the look of my PCB and the one from Ledger website, it seems the PCBs are identical:

https://i.ibb.co/X5HqMCj/8.png

Now I was finally assured that my product respects the hardware integrity!

Since I am a magician when it comes to opening electronic devices piece by piece then placing all the pieces back together By pure chance O0 I also managed to place back everything inside the wallet case then close back the case. Surprisingly, the wallet is still functional! ;D

---

---

---

In the end, for trying to be more catholic than Pope is, I performed also the genuine check offered by Ledger Live app:

https://i.ibb.co/xqt8BVY/01.png

https://i.ibb.co/5xStKNz/02.png

https://i.ibb.co/6ngBP3t/03.png

https://i.ibb.co/zP5xQDV/04.png

The check concluded by saying that the product is genuine. Hooray!

---

---

---

Conclusion

Having these said, I guess that the owners of Betnomi Ledgers can relax now, as their products are not tampered with. Those which want though can perform the above steps for checking their wallets' hardware integrity on their own. However, I don't recommend this, unless you don't care if the device gets fully damaged or unless you are used to opening electronic devices / fix them / etc. :)

It is very sad that icopress is having a huge loss because of Betnomi but, at least, they were not that evil to tamper the devices they raffled on the forum.

I am not sure if they can relax knowing that someone like Betnomi probably has their personal information, especially if they know their real name, delivery address and phone number.
Not sure what exactly is happening with Betnomi but I already heard several reports from people about some leaked information connected with email address.
Anyway, good job with doing this integrity check.

You've made tests which mean the products haven't been tampered. It's asking for big trust from ppl if they're using any thing given by Betnomi it's a risk they shouldn't take. Users shouldn't use them because if their balances became empty they won't forgive Betnomi.

Well, I meant that they can relax if they were worried about the possibility of having their Ledgers tampered by Betnomi, but I understand what you're saying. That's another reason to worry about. However, some of them shared only with MJ their personal information and that should be a little relief. At same time, some which had the possibility did not offer their real address but used a P.O. Box or some other shipping address so that could be another relief...


Thank you! It took me some hours for making this check and write everything down, step by step, but I am glad I made it :)

@GazetaBitcoin Betnomi wallet hardware from you I can't enter Ledger Live have tried several times but failed, have entered the PIN but the fact is that it doesn't function properly.

Actually I wanted to ask this a long time ago but forgot because this hardware wallet is rarely turned on.

Maybe you know why it always stuck here?

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/08/14/G03rP.png

Maybe this is making a big jump; but would it be sort of possible to pin-point the time the devices were bought from the firmware version? I suppose that new devices come fully updated, and not so long ago we did discuss the 2020/2022 ledger operation times.

However, it's good to know that at least the devices don't contain some extra present; good work!

---

---

Are you using a cable different to the one that came with the device? If so, can you connect other devices to your computer with it? Maybe it's just a power cable and not suitable for data transfer aswell

No
I use the built-in data cable from Ledger inside.
Tried connecting to other devices with the same result, no change at all.

Now can only access on mobile by connecting to bluetooth.

And did you also try another cable that you know is actually working on any other device? Would be great if the answer was just a simple broken cable

I haven't tried it yet. Will do it now, I hope with another data cable it will come in.

Confirming with another data cable can enter Ledger Live.
Yes, it seems that the power cord is not suitable for transferring data to the computer, but for charging it runs normally with the built-in cable.

Can it be said to be damaged if the built-in cable cannot transfer to the PC?

As far as I understand from an older post they made (included in my previous post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5461815.msg62666684#msg62666684)), they bought these Ledgers in 2021


According to Ledger website (https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360014980580-Ledger-Nano-X-firmware-release-notes?docs=true) (select Older firmware versions), we can see all firmware updates and their release dates. Hwever, the release date for 2.0.1 is not stated, by some reason. But we see that 2.0.0 was released on 21 October 2021 and 2.0.2 was released on 25 January 2022. So 2.0.1 was released between those dates. So the information matches what they said.


Thank you :)

---

---

Did you try to pull the USB cable completely inside the Ledger's muff? At my first attempt I inserted it half inside the muff so it did not even turn on, so I thought it was broken. Then I forced the cable muff a bit more inside the Ledger and it entered completely. Only after that I could turn it on and I had no problem with the Ledger Live.

Other than that, you can try uninstall Ledger Live and reinstall it and, when you start the tutorial again, select the option that you already have a Ledger which is set up, so not a brand new one.

And, of course, as Csmiami suggested, check the cable integrity :) I checked the wallet's integrity, not the cable =))) I hope you'll manage to bypass this problem. In any case, the software saying the Ledger is genuine is not so assuring. The important part is that we know now that the hardware integrity is in good shape. That is the most important aspect.

---

Later edit, as I just noticed your lattest post:


This is curious, but I observed, in time, that PC USBs act weird from a PC to another (maybe it depends if you have a USB 1.0 port or USB 2.0 or 3.0 or USB type C and so on). I don't know why this happens but it happens all the times. For example, when I try to connect my phone to my PC it does not see it or it sees it for 1 second then immediately it sees the phone was unplugged (although I did not unplug it). If I use same phone and same cable on another PC it works without any problem. It may be an issue with the USB port you are using. Since the cable can be used for powering the Ledger it's obvious that the cable is functional.

It can be functional but have the data pins or however they are actually called broken (or someone correct me if not). I'd simply toss if for another new one. Cables break, so not really a big issue

Pretty much sure the post you quoted just proven the exact opposite of your comment. Gazeta Tabloid spent a lot of time writing the post, and even longer time figuring every details and doing every steps needed to check the ledger's integrity, and they came clean.

Yes, people is advised to exercise caution when they use the ledger and they could do what Tabloid did [dismantling the device] if they want extra security, but it's proven that the ledgers are not tampered. Thus, if the balance became empty at one point, it's not necessarily Betnomi's fault. You do aware that there are a lot of malicious entities out there in crypto-space who perpetually tried to steal other people's fund, right?

Sup holydarkness :D :D :D


Lol! That also baffled me. He quoted the conclusion saying the Ledgers are clean while, at same time, he contradicts the conclusion. Furthermore, he contradicts himself inside his own sentence:


So I'm not sure what he meant, unless he just tried to fill his signature campaign quota.

---

O0


Well, you figured that right, holydarkness... It took me around 5 hours to make all that research and write everything... As you saw, on Ledger website you only see those commands, but you have no idea where to type them. So search for that... find out you need Python... Then I launched Python but again I had no option to run those commands, then research again and find out you need something called "pip", then ask WTF is this pip, then look for how to install pip... then research some more and find out you also need some other components of Python installed and so on and so forth... Then the ultimate effort -- the one of opening the wallet case and try to place everything back inside... At some point I thought I won't be able to figure out how to perform this entire check but I felt somehow I was getting close so I didn't stop until I finished :)

The USB port has no problem whatsoever, I have checked everything works on the PC, Yes it can only charge but cannot be connected to the PC with the built-in cable except for other cables that work properly.

I don't know where the problem lies, now it's normal with another data cable, trying to upgrade the firmwae to the latest version works fine and smoothly.

Now not so worried. :D

https://www.btcgosu.com/blog/news/betnomi-exit-scam-users-left-in-limbo-as-crypto-gambling-operator-shuts-down/  :(

It will be appreciated if all of you try to keep the subject of the thread accurate while making your post. GazetaBitcoin had changed it for the content of this post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5461815.msg62694410#msg62694410), but he has adjusted it on his next posts. Some other forum members aren't following it.
@ajiz138, will you take your time to merge your consecutive posts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5461815.msg62696877#msg62696877)?

Seems like the user has lack of commonsense. We had informed him several times that he is making unnecessary posts here. He ignored those warnings and continuously making unnecessary posts here. Even, it is hard to realize the key point of his post.

It also takes a long time to read and realise the steps of your post. I have only read the first part of it and ignored the second one where you described the process of opening the device. Thank you for verifying the transparency of Betnomi's given Ledger device.

Edit: @efialtis, I liked the title of the blog ;D. Looks like you have included some information from this thread.

Thanks for checking integrity of wallet. After reading your post, it looks like one of these operations that you shouldn't do at home if you don't know what you're doing. Well, this thing is definitely not for my skills. Maybe it would be possible to do it following your instructions, but I doubt that my wallet would work after that.
It's good to read that wallet is genuine. I was a bit sceptical about theory that Betnomi may have done something to it, it sounds like a bit too much sophisticated plan. But when it comes to scammers, you never can be sure.

Very nice post, and somewhat reassuring.
The first, and only, thing I made with that signing device was actually performing an integrity check. I guess you are manually doing what the ledger live app is doing behind the curtain.
Don't trust, verify.

The only thing that puzzles me:


Can you trust a list found on the internet? Why Ledger doesn't disclose this kind of information?

Otherwise,

Great work!

Huge leap maybe, but if what Gazeta did was really just manually check what Ledger Live does, I could think that they'd keep that private so that people would be "forced" to check the device/firmware integrity using the official app, and have more downloads and data spied

Ledger Live App must be used anyway when updating the firmware, so there is a case for downloading the app and be spied on personal data. .

Anyway not a big surprise here, as the security model at Ledger has always been “Security trough obscurity”.

Grazie tante!


Yes, this is exactly what I did.


Well, I will try to answer to this question below.

• The TargetID for Ledger Nano X -- 0x33000004 -- from that list was the same with the one mentioned on Ledger's website. Remember the command mentioned on their website (https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/4404382029329-Check-hardware-integrity?support=true):
  
  
  Quote
  Secure Element attestation
  
  python -m ledgerblue.checkGenuineRemote --targetId 0x33000004

So having this TargetID mentioned on their website and as well inside that list confirmed that the information was correct. So no matter if the other values for TargetIDs from that list were correct or not, that did not influence the integrity check of this Ledger, as same information was provided by Ledger too.

• Now about the other values from that list, for the other Ledger models: if we look on Ledger's website, on the page about hardware integrity check, we can see this sentence:
  
  
  Quote
  The source code is available here (https://github.com/LedgerHQ/blue-loader-python/blob/master/ledgerblue/checkGenuine.py).
  
  If we access the link provided, we can see that the GitHub repository was provided by someone named dr-chain. Now if we open the page containing the list of TargetIDs (https://github.com/ledgerhq/blue-loader-python) we can see at its right side a section named "Contributors". There are 27 contributors. If we click on Contributors, to see all 27 names, one of them is dr-chain, meaning the one mentioned directly on Ledger's website. Does it make sense? Seeing the name of this developer on Ledger's website and also on that page containing all Ledger TargetIDs is reassuring from my perspective.

In any case, I did not check the integrity of other Ledger models excepting the Nano X one so I can't say that all those TargetIDs from that list are 100% correct. But for our check we can know for sure that the TargetID is correct, as same value is mentioned directly on Ledger's website.

---

Glad I could help :)

Excellent.
Your guide inspired me so much I decided I am going to do that as well.
Maybe your wallet wasn’t tampered, but mine was!
Even if I vaguely remember the Ledger App certified that as genuine.

This is a great decision, as, in case it will turn out that it wasn't tampered, this information will reassure the others which also thought about this.
I'll be looking forward for your results. Be careful though and try to remember the place of each piece when you'll dismantle it. And be very, very gentle during the operation.


Even if you saw this... you know very well that what a software says is not always accurate. Honestly, I trust more that fact that I see the PCBs identical than that command which confirmed the Ledger is genuine. In my opinion comparing the PCBs is more important in this check.

What do you mean? Did you received ledger wallet from betnomi in some of  their giveaway or you got it from some other source?
I saw them changing PCB's all the time, and to be honest I don't trust their integrity check process very much, as well as their closed source devices.

I think he means that, although I checked my Ledger and it showed up that it was not tampered, that does not necessarily mean that his Ledger was also not tampered, so he will perform a hardware genuine check on his own.

As far as I know, fillippone's Ledger (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5277804.msg62053927#msg62053927) is from winning BCA 2022 at Golden Feather category (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5437673.msg61693732#msg61693732).

I would be interested in reading more about this. How, when, why do you think that?
I know that Ledger's initial onboarding setup can be buggy. They are aware of it themselves, that's why there is a link to solutions as to why your computer might not detect the device even if it's connected and unlocked. That also affects the genuine check which won't work. Running the app as administrator, restarting the PC, trying a different USB port, etc., etc., are some ways to "fix" it.

---

Let's get back to topic of Betnomi's most probable exit scam. @ icopress, any new contact with the reliable folks from Betnomi?

Closing this small OT here.
I simply wanted to do the same checking process on my Ledger that comes as a prize for the BCA award.
I guess it’s a sensible idea being ultra paranoid toward a customised device that Betnomi knew was directed to a generic “well known user” of the forum.

I don't disagree with that, and you should check if for your own safety, especially after what is happening with Betnomi now. When you say "customized" and "tempered with", I thought you already saw or noticed something being off. But it seems to be just a hunch or a possibility, and you haven't actually found or checked for anything malicious yet.

Well, the unprofessional team of Betnomi is showing their moves by staying silent. If you want to be in the distrust list of Betnomi representative, then leave a negative feedback on their representative account ;D

So, it means that they're still following what's going on here, but not planning to give any update about what's going on. It's nothing new to distrust users who left negative feedback on your profile, but I'm wondering why they added these few new names to their trust list?
Leaving negative feedback on Betnomi profile is probably only thing what we can do, though, it's pointless, I doubt that in future they're going to something with Betnomi brand, it's possible that they will come with new brand.

Better to post the whole BB code so that the other members also know what just happened. I had no idea what was going on until I just checked this thread. This shows that they know what they are doing and just refuse to update us what on what happened.

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2. cygan (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=27470) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=27470)  +56 / =0 / -0) (5080 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/27470.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/27470.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=cygan))
3. CoinEraser (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=65716) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=65716)  +1 / =0 / -0) (1218 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/65716.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/65716.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=CoinEraser))
4. minerjones (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=346731) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=346731)  +154 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (13) 2358 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/346731.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/346731.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=minerjones))
5. NEW OmegaStarScream (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=375981) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=375981)  +13 / =0 / -0) (4716 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/375981.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/375981.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=OmegaStarScream))
6. NEW Vadi2323 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=399366) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=399366)  +1 / =2 / -0) (231 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/399366.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/399366.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=Vadi2323))
7. NEW sandy-is-fine (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=400366) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=400366)  +7 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (5) 220 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/400366.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/400366.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=sandy-is-fine))
8. NEW actmyname (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=465017) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=465017)  +18 / =0 / -0) (1498 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/465017.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/465017.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=actmyname))
9. NEW The Sceptical Chymist (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=487418) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=487418)  +33 / =3 / -0) (5532 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/487418.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/487418.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=The Sceptical Chymist))
10. NEW xtraelv (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=897509) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=897509)  +5 / =0 / -0) (1792 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/897509.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/897509.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=xtraelv))
11. icopress (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1137579) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1137579)  +34 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (21) 5618 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/1137579.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/1137579.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=icopress))
12. NEW Husires (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1701092) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1701092) neutral) (1224 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/1701092.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/1701092.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=Husires))
13. TopTort777 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1750589) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1750589) neutral) (1334 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/1750589.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/1750589.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=TopTort777))
14. darxiaomi (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2812492) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2812492) neutral) (892 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/2812492.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/2812492.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=darxiaomi))
15. Remi Forte (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3456588) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=3456588)  +1 / =0 / -0) (3 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/3456588.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/3456588.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=Remi Forte))

betnomi Distrusts these users' judgement:
1. ~iTradeChips (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=85601) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=85601)  +0 / =0 / -2) (36 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/85601.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/85601.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=iTradeChips))
2. ~TheNewAnon135246 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=153656) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=153656)  +23 / =0 / -0) (989 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/153656.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/153656.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=TheNewAnon135246))
3. NEW ~examplens (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=314792) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=314792)  +6 / =4 / -0) (DT1! (19) 1513 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/314792.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/314792.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=examplens))
4. NEW ~BitcoinGirl.Club (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662330) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=662330)  +1 / =3 / -0) (DT1! (4) 1509 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/662330.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/662330.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=BitcoinGirl.Club))
5. NEW ~hugeblack (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1059082) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1059082)  +6 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (4) 3007 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/1059082.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/1059082.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=hugeblack))
6. NEW ~logfiles (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1247226) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1247226)  +5 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (12) 1468 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/1247226.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/1247226.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=logfiles))
7. ~ICOEthics (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2204241) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2204241)  +23 / =1 / -0) (892 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/2204241.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/2204241.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=ICOEthics))
8. NEW ~FatFork (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2738899) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2738899)  +7 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (9) 2181 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/2738899.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/2738899.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=FatFork))
9. ~cicadasTR (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3381066) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=3381066)  +0 / =0 / -1) (4 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/3381066.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/3381066.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=cicadasTR))
10. ~bislom (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3406859) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=3406859) neutral) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/3406859.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=bislom))


betnomi's judgement is Trusted by:
-

~betnomi's judgement is Distrusted by:
1. Timelord2067 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=131361) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=131361)  +15 / =13 / -0) (DT1 (-9) 1142 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/131361.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/131361.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=Timelord2067))
2. nutildah (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=317618) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=317618)  +14 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (23) 5973 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/317618.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/317618.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=nutildah))
3. efialtis (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2597426) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2597426)  +25 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (4) 1324 Merit earned (https://loyce.club/Merit/history/2597426.html)) (Trust list (https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/2597426.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/Profile?p=efialtis))


Source: LoyceV's Trust list viewer (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5102296.0).
Get your own Trust list in BBCode at loyce.club/trust (https://loyce.club/trust/).

At least now we know he's still alive and lurking around, probably setting up his new scam. What an a-hole. The least he could do is update us on what's going on with the platform.

Really sad if this is their response to everything that is happening around them. I guess they thought that if they didn't see negative feedback because they added to their distrust list, the problem wouldn't exist.
Considering that they still follow what is happening here, while avoiding giving any answer or explanation, now we can safely add the label exit scam next to the name Betnomi.

I've been wondering about that for a while yesterday since I found out about their updated trust list, I initially thought they wanted to increase their trust rating [again, cosmetically] while simultaneously lowering their negative score. But it seems the ones they added to their trust list are not the ones who leave them a positive feedback, so adding them to their trust list won't do much to their rating, so I guess that's just to obscure what they did. They basically throw names to their trust lists so it'll look like they simply modifying their trust page to hide the fact of what they're actually trying to achieve.

BUT... another thing that crossed my mind is that a forum veteran like betnomi won't do such useless thing, they most likely familiar with how the trust feedback and trust list works. So... is it possible that there is a new admin in the house?

---

Loyce has a very nice analogy for this [that I think I'll borrow from now on]

'
I had laugh seeing their trust list. They scammed, failed to continue business but now they are back, perfecting their trust setting LOL.
Are they hoping to be in DT by any chance LOL?

A good example of scammers becoming a joke when they get caught red handed.

I noticed that instead of responding to the accusations, he cleaned his trust list by deleting DT negative trust, in general

I was hope this problem to be solved, although I believe that such behavior indicates a scammer with limited capabilities.


Are there any updates about this? Or will someone else create the flag?

I wonder why they added a bunch of DTs and other popular forum members to their trust list at the same time. I checked if every new addition left them positive trust and they didn't. The 8 new members whose judgement they trust haven't left them positive feedback. Maybe it's a pathetic attempt to try to influence these members not to distrust them as well. Would be funny to see exactly that happening.

I just decided to create a newbie/guest flag since the victims (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5462045.msg62660711#msg62660711) seem to be reluctant (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5279745.msg62614939#msg62614939) in creating one

I know one of the domains if offline, but who knows? They might try to resurrect it when the people lower their guard. The other domain betnomi.bet is still online.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=3209

Thank you for creating the newbie/guest warning flag. Although it won't make any difference, but the scam operator Betnomi deserve that at least. I have updated the flag in the main post.

BTW, let's see the latest steps of Betnomi team which they have taken to give a false hope to the victims.
• On 24th August: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5458296.msg62743070#msg62743070) Betnomi.com brought back the 'scheduled maintenance' message again.
• On ~6th September: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5458296.msg62815811#msg62815811) The maintenance message was removed and Betnomi is showing a new error message now.
• On 6th September: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5458296.msg62825039#msg62825039) Betnomi representative appeared in the forum and played with the trust list.

This is one shitty childish revenge move from betnomi, but they are only hurting themselves more with distrusting members who gave them negative feedback and support flag against them.
I think they will comeback or maybe they already did comeback with different name, so be careful with all new casinos that appeared in last few months.
I dont know what they expected from everyone, website is not working for many weeks, they left without any explanation, and they owe money to people who worked with them.

I cant wait to hear something from them, this must be fantastic excuse story coming soon.
Get popcorns ready everyone  ;D

This is correct.
I was following everything that was happening with their website and I posted updates in forum when I saw them.

I think he added anyone who didn't trust the accounts that left him with negative trust but after searching, I found that he did it randomly.

In any case, by being active and not responding to scam accusations, you have proven the accusation against yourself.


supported your flag. I thought there were negotiations or an agreement in private, so I did not decide to take a decision until someone did.

Did Betnomi always have two working domains at the same time or how exactly did they operate? Their betnomi.com site is still down with a random error message. But betnomi.bet is now working. According to whois, that domain has been available since 2021.Their Twitter page meanwhile, still points to the old site. I am sure that I had betnomi.com in my casino withdrawal fees thread before I removed them for being scammers.

betnomi[dot]bet was their "older" domain (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5279745.msg58139923#msg58139923) before they move to [dot]com, and I think somewhere on the [multiple] threads about betnomi, it's been explained that the [dot]bet was used to keep the platform running while they overhaul the [dot]com, and users' database was transferred there, thus logging in with [dot]com's credential on [dot]bet will grant you access.

I vaguely recalled someone tried their credential on the [dot]bet and, after gained access, learned that though you can log in, the deposit feature are not available (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5279745.msg62619297#msg62619297).

---

Edit: I am thanking ninjastic's date filter so I don't have to comb over 90-something posts. Edited the original post, adding link to the "deposit feature are not available" for reference.

You aren't the only person who is getting confused between the old and new domain of Betnomi website. There should be no confusion if you read and realize the main post properly.


FYI, Betnomi.bet doesn't accept deposit. It was created to allow the old Betnomi.com user to access their account (previous account) and withdraw their funds (if they had any). The website also shows an invalid message at the bottom right corner: "Invalid website (https://talkimg.com/images/2023/09/14/6RMzf.jpeg)".

@holydarkness, @Mahdirakib
Thanks for the explanations.

A follow up question. When betnomi.com went offline without any explanations, was betnomi.bet accessible and live at all times or was there a period when the .bet version was also down? I am asking because if it went offline and came back, maybe there is a plan to try and revive the brand in the future through the .bet site.

As far as I could tell, it was active all the time. They shifted their old website (which used old software and an old database) to a secondary domain when they launched a completely new platform from scratch in 2021. I don't believe the "bet" domain was ever intended to be a "live" casino site.

Not sure if it ever has a down period, but one thing we can be sure of is that it was accessible when the .com went offline months ago. This fact was [in a way] unearthed by CasinoGuru's mediator on a case against them from the earlier phase of their houdini act.

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/09/14/6RpuG.jpeg

But yes, I am inclined toward agreement with decodx that the site never goes offline, though I think [again, much like decodx think] it's more because the site was never meant to be a live site, thus it's kinda overlooked; "abandoned", if you may.

If we suppose that they will come back at one point through the .bet site, though, I'll say they can try all they want to do that, but the record here is already pretty much extensive to tell the future users about anything related to betnomi, so I think we shouldn't lose sleep over it, and they're more likely to create a completely brand new site instead of re-using their old name and site.

Betnomi is back, but not in reality. The representative of Betnomi has created a thread in the gambling board by describing the story from their side. They have shown the intention to refund the users. Where the important part is that


Our (Betnomi users) data has been compromised from Betnomi for the irresponsibility of the owners. Therefore, they deserve the negative feedbacks even if they refund all the victims. Betnomi team has done everything intentionally and manually, but they never tried to clarify the reasons in the last four and a half months. I'm mentioning those who have left negative feedback on Betnomi representative account.

Not sure what they are talking about here. The representative of Betnomi writes that they chased away the owners, and now they will start the process of returning the funds. Aren't the owners the ones who manage the funds?
Who are the people currently "standing" behind Betnomi? And what was their role in everything so far?

Honestly, to me, this looks like some kind of buying time and putting the blame on someone else. Is there any information anywhere that someone has initiated legal proceedings against them?

The funds are maintained by the financial admin (one of the owners) of a betting site. I think there is no changed hands of the ownership of Betnomi. Most probably, the representative will come with an explanation by saying that "Sorsis Chatwin" is an innocent person and he isn't involved in such activities. Because, his information is publicly available on LinkedIn and Betnomi's trademark application page.

Unfortunately, none of the victim has taken any legal action against Betnomi's known admin Sorsis Chatwin or the other unknown administrators.

I think it's already done, that Sorsis Chatwin is innocent. The writer said the refund will come from his own pocket and it's signed "Sorsis", implying [or trying to send a narrative] that he's also a victim of this mess but he's the one who will sort things out.

I am interested with the later part of the statement,


it means they'll come with a new name and a clean sheet, isn't it?

@Mahdirakib, thanks for sharing these news because I didn't noticed their announcement before that. After so much time already passed I already didn't expected to hear anything from them. I have no trust at all in them thatthey will make refund, butthere is at leastsome hope, especially for people who had a lot money.
I agree that negative feedbacks should stay. They simply have done wrong everything what is possible. And if they're going to operate casino, people should stay miles away from them.

Nothing changes. All I see are words and perhaps a new plan to restore the ruined reputation and then scam more people again. I was actually going though some of the scam accusations against them to read their responses. They were arrogant before folding up their scams, literally they were blaming the victims for the crime they committed.



 

I dont know if I left them negative feedback but I am one of the people with compromised personal data, and I was receiving many casino spam emails.
This could be phishing attack but I never opened this links and I am not using that email address anymore.

Sorsis was always one and only owner of Betnomi.
All other people could be his partners or someone who worked for him, and there is no chance that some unknown owner was behind Betnomi all the time.

Back when I was working with them I was a part of their slack group. There were more than 50 people on the team at that time. I'm not sure who was or wasn't a partner or who was or wasn't important. All I know for sure is more than 1 person was involved with the day to day. Throughout all of my conversations, no other mention of partners or owners was mentioned either.

All I know is that there was only one name mentioned in forum all the time and that is Sorsis.
Some people said he was bragging that he earned money by stealing credit card information, so he always claimed to be a good with computers or good hacker.
I cant even imagine Sorsis hacker being scammed and tricked this way by some other guy who was allegedly above him in Betnomi.
Other people worked for him and this is not a secret, but I dont know the real numbers.

So where have they been all along? It's not like they were completely offline this whole time. They knew what was going on even here in the forum when members tried to raise some issues, but they just decided to log in and distrust members who tried to discuss what was going on  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5461815.msg62826588#msg62826588)

Good thing there is a summary of events that went on during that time

I am not going to believe a single statement from them. They completely lost my trust and my negative feedback will remain.

Yep, it won't be possible for anyone to operate a casino alone. There were obviously some developers, designers, support agent and security team members under him. As an example, the betnomi.com (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5279745.msg60279451#msg60279451) account was operated by 'Andrew' who was hired by Sorsis. Anyway, Sorsis was the owner/head of Betnomi. One of the employees of Betnomi had addressed Sorsis as the company head a few years ago.


And Sorsis was the person who had applied for Betnomi's trademark registration. If I'm not wrong, then all the forum members (who had worked for Sorsis) know Sorsis as the owner of Betnomi. He was hiring and firing the employees. Therefore, it isn’t true what has been said by Betnomi representative (Sorsis) in this post: Betnomi | Project status (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474377.0)

Maybe Betnomi team was trying to create the best story to regain the trust with their words. The good thing is that Bitcointalk community hasn't fallen on their words yet.

I don't like to judge based on assumptions. My red feedback to them is for a reason they just disappeared without any explanation. I believe that they wrote a statement that it will be offline for 6 or 8 months and that it will not be active during that time, that would be a little more acceptable.

If Sorsis managed the betnomi account here from the beginning, it did so in a very bad way. If that's how he managed the casino, then it's no surprise where they are now. A few months after leaving the forum, Sorsis appeared and added everyone who left negative feedback to his distrust list. https://loyce.club/trust/2023-09-09_Sat_05.07h/2532772.html
I'm not sure what he wanted to achieve with this (I'd like to hear his explanation).
Now with the new story, it seems to me that he just wants to remove the "scam" tag next to his name, i.e. the name of his essential reference. This tag may represent a significant obstacle in developing a new business.

It is quite surprising that Bitcointalk gambling community members are widely appreciating what Sorsis has said in the recent topic instead of checking all the stories properly. Without any doubt, Betnomi representative doesn't have any reasonable answer about the changes they made on their trust list. The website is down for almost 5 months. Now they have come with a refund policy, but the victims have to send a request to get the refund. And the refund system will last for only 30 days.

I welcome that they have returned to the forum instead of disappearing forever, but that return, like you, raises doubts in my mind. In the same way that the changes in the trust list are not very coherent, they seemed more like revenge. This raises many questions, like what about players who are not members of the forum?

He admitted to being a scammer in the past, allegedly making good money from credit card fraud.  I don't think people like that ever truly reform.  Sure, some may change their methods or targets, but the core motivation remains the same - to deceive and exploit others for personal gain.  Once you've made peace with that it becomes a way of life. 

So while he may put on a show of turning over a new leaf, I'd bet money the old ways still lurk beneath the surface and  hes just better now at covering his tracks and keeping up appearances.  But a scammer will always be a scammer deep down inside.  This latest act is nothing but smoke and mirrors as far as I'm concerned.

This is .... weird:
What happened to using account credentials for withdrawals instead of emails? What happened to contacting your customers instead of writing about it months later on a third party forum?
Could it be someone else gained access to the account and is now collecting personal information?

As if everyone remembers amount of coins in account after many months of website not working  ::)
Guy who sent this post is clearly controlling betnomi.com domain and website, as he is accepting refund emails on address he posted.
Was it so hard for him/them to send email only to members who already have account with leftover balance, instead of asking everyone to send their private information?

You mean he'd reach 100% of the customers instead of being able to say "you had your chance and didn't take it"?

Yes, very convenient rules when they have only one month time to contact him with their information  ;)
But he didn't have to send mass-email to everyone, only to people with positive balance in accounts, and he claims this is not a lot of money/people.

Here are some more lies from Betnomi (Sorsis):


So, he only has access to a partial version of the database that apparently does not contain user email addresses?! How convenient.

That's just brilliant. They waited few months until people will give up/forget and move on with this case. And now they didn't sent this message through email to all their customers with perfect excuse that they don't have full access to their database. Instead of, they posted this message on 3rd party forum which obviously isn't used by all their customers. They didn't even posted it on their main topic that less people would see it. And finally, giving only 30 days to contact for refund that less people would be able to contact them. And after these 30 days not refunded money will be already legally theft. Fantastic! I'm wonering how much % of their users will contact them for refund.
After all these months I have no idea how much ballance I had there. I don't even remember what email address I used for sign up and I will have to dig deep in my inbox to find login details.

Which members are appreciated what the serial scammer said? Maybe those are gambling board spammers who don't even read about anything. They just reply for the sake  ;D

I will never believe anything else coming from betnomi. The very fast red flag in the beginning was having a fake team (http://archive.is/NUdsW), they got caught, got tagged, but somehow they convinced some members to remove the negative feedback and brought in their fake promotions to cover up the mess. Not this time round.

Yet they can somehow check if the username/email exists in the database.  
???



Why not post it on your Twitter account(18k followers)?
https://twitter.com/betnomi

So, your whole plan is to whitewash your reputation as cheaply as possible?

Ahh... I was just from that thread, being curious and asking the same matter. One other thing that's also interesting, given they're pursuing legal action against the perpetrator who stole their IP, I think they can ask a court appointed entity to access this database currently being possessed by the perpetrator and send an email blast to their customer informing about this refund. I am pretty much sure one of the IP being stolen was email database, given many user of betnomi got unsolicited email promotion back when the chaos of their downfall initially happened.

This refund phase looks awfully more and more like an attempt to get many people's credential instead of a real attempt to refund people.

Why would anyone believe anything the scammer says at this point?

Certainly, data collection via e-mail is quite non-transparent. I won't be surprised if some anonymous people start appearing, confirming how they got a refund from Betnomi. But the ultimate motive for everything that comes from there is still unclear. I assume that Betnomi will no longer work as a gambling site, and the only thing that seems likely to me is that Sorsis wants to have some positive feedback, because "CEO of Betnomi" is mentioned in his biography.

Sounds like the plan, remember the Livecoin chaos where random newbie accounts started registering in the forum and immediately posting (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1151791.1680) in the Livecoin thread allegedly confirming that they had received 50% of the payments with random TX ID and then all of a sudden disappeared?  ;D

Interestingly, he seems to have scrubbed all mentions of the "Nomi Labs Co-Founder" from his online profiles. Looks like he's trying to distance himself from that company, even though the entire Betnomi platform was birthed under that brand. What's he trying to hide or play down?


https://talkimg.com/images/2023/11/24/FqD0G.jpeg
https://archive.is/LoOBe

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/11/24/FqqpZ.jpeg
https://archive.ph/BnDTb

As per his LinkedIn profile, Tigran B. (https://www.linkedin.com/in/tegrean/) worked as a Technical Recruiter at Nomi Labs until May 2023.

He wants us to believe in what he says. Because he was successful by using the strategy in the past. Now he is doing it all to regain the trust. Let's assume they are really going to make the refund. But it won't be fair, and all the users aren't going to get it. After doing all these things, Sorsis might say something like this


I can't recall it properly whether 'Nomi Labs Co-Founder' was mentioned in his profile or not. But it is true that Betnomi has come from Nomi Labs. And Sorsis is one of the owners of Nomi Labs.

---

Betnomi team havs considered all the inquiries as spam/abuse on their telegram group. In this process, they have also banned some users who was asking about their funds and Betnomi's downtime. Which is a clear example of scam attempt from Betnomi. But they don't think it like this. They have also said a reason for playing with the trust list.

It was. I'm sure of that. Unfortunately, I failed to archive his LinkedIn profile at the time, but I mentioned it here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5458296.msg62622791#msg62622791). Regardless, the connection between Betnomi and Nomi Labs is indeed noteworthy, and you can still find confirmation that Sorsis is one of the owners of Nomi Labs through various Google caches. For instance, if you search for images using the query "Sorsis Chatwin Nomi Labs," you'll find traces of his promotional posts for Nomi Labs on his LinkedIn, though they have all been deleted now:

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/11/26/NuvM9.jpeg
https://www.google.com/search?q=Sorsis+Chatwin+Nomi+Labs

Also, in cached versions of some other websites, like for example here:

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/11/26/Nuj9l.jpeg
https://archive.is/xslJw

Google is showing those images actually which has been liked by Sorsis (https://www.linkedin.com/mwlite/profile/in/sorsis/recent-activity) on LinkedIn.

It can be considered as a solid evidence. Maybe Sorsis wants to keep Nomi Labs in a safe place by removing the information from his LinkedIn profile. However, they stopped all the progress of Nomi Labs before stopping the operation of Betnomi. Their social media accounts are inactive since the January month of this year.

The refund drama of Betnomi hasn't ended successfully yet. People are still waiting to get their funds back.

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/01/11/se5UJ.jpeg

In the meantime, Betnomi team (Sorsis and other admin of their telegram group) is back with a new project (https://t.me/betnomi/205070). They may refund a part of the users to gain the trust again for their new project, but everyone should remember the shady things and behaviour of Betnomi team.

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/01/11/sWo6q.jpeg

No one knows how bigger and long lasting their new scam project will be. Perhaps, they will finalize everything by observing the reaction of the gambling community after the refund drama.

No matter how many users they do end up refunding their rep is still never going to be completely back to good. The way this all transpired cost them more then they realize. The lack of communication was devastating for them.

Yeah, once the trust is gone it's hard to repair that. Refunds are mandatory, nothing special to get your players back.
I thing a considerate amount of players will not deposit there again. Once you make a bad experience like that people tend to move on from it and won't make the same mistake again trusting a site with their funds when this site has this kind of history.
It happened once, it can happen again.

Unless they do a total rebranding I see no future for them. The name betnomi will always be tainted with this.

Oh, I already forgot about Betnomi as I haven't heard anything about them for a while. How unexpected (not) that people didn't got refunds. I guess that only not so big part of their users filled request, as others simply weren't aware about it. But Betnomi didn't even bothered torefund part of their users.
They're starting new project when they didn't refunded customers of their previous project, what is pathetic. These who are going to use their new project have no common sense anddon't respect themselves.

Why I am not surprised they are launching another token with presale and new casino  ::)
If you read what they wrote on their docs page they say thy are going to transform betting industry with their new platform  ;D
New presale on BNB, because this is easiest way for Sorsis to collect money again, and I didnt found Betnomi mentioned anywhere on this page:
https://docs.basebet.io/intro/about-basebet

I am not surprised either. Surely they have taken the idea of freebitco.in, which is not exactly created FUNToken but joined giving advantages in their casino and has been profitable for them but not for investors. I guess we will see something like that:

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/01/15/3v5qT.png

What a joke (a terrible one really) that is - unfortunately, this is the crypto wild west. It would not be possible in the traditional gambling space (where you can also find more than enough bad actors), but it`s just not as easy as in our space. You scam people, make up funny stories and there`s no consequence whatsoever (unless you become a very BIG player).

Such a trend reminds me of those hard core scammers behind different MLMs and Ponzi schemes. Once one collapses or gets exposed, the scammer goes ahead, starts a resh and creates a new one. The cycle continues, but one thing is for sure, such people are always so greedy for the money they scam from innocent people. It becomes their addictive drug and one day, their 40 days of scamming run out.

This is nothing strange. Once they try such thing and then they already have experience and know how of scamming proccess. Yeah, very similar to people addicted to drugs, it's difficult to return on good path after you already got addicted.
What is more shocking is number of people who are ready to use new project of scammers, despite all red flags given. Some people will never learn.

Betnomi representative claimed that they have completed the refund process. Some forum members have confirmed it too. But it isn’t verifiable whether all the victims got their funds back or not. Because some of the forum members aren't active who had complained about their stuck funds, and all the victim doesn't have account in this forum. Sorsis has disabled the messaging option on the Betnomi's telegram group. However, it is known that they are doing it all to launch their new project successfully without having the past controversy related to Betnomi. Now it is up to the gambling community whether they will trust those people or not.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend them to anyone. They had sold user email database to the spammers to get some money. Betnomi team (Sorsis) has proven themselves as unprofessional and untrustworthy on time to time.

We should make clear that the number of victims will be reduced. And when this site is online, Red tag it from the beginning. We should do everything to warn everbody on the forum about this new scam project.

They are going to launch a new project, basebet.io basebet.com
He thinks he can just operate a new project while he has scammed tons of money! Lets fight against this fraudster and red tag his new site!!

The new site is yet to be announced, and from what can be inferred from their statement [quoted below], it's very likely will not be named as basebet. That site is just a test-net. Their statement also became the base of my questions (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474377.msg63627115#msg63627115) of the purpose of that thread, which yet to be answered.

If you want to help, you can start by not bumping old threads blindly, disregarding if the cases already solved or not, it's just confuses people.

Well, I think it is necessary to give a little summary here so that everyone can know how questionable Betnomi's refund plan was. They have marked the thread as solved in order to create an impression of paying all the victims. On 24th February (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474377.msg63713559#msg63713559), Betnomi representative claimed that they have completed the refund. But only two users have confirmed about receiving their funds until now.

Confirmation of refund:
• AHOYBRAUSE (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474377.msg63714212#msg63714212): Confirmed about receiving his funds (unknown amount)
• Betwrong (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474377.msg63716227#msg63716227): Confirmed about receiving his funds, $400+.

Pending and denied refund:
• Stayzor (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474377.msg63726146#msg63726146): 0.4 BTC and 4.5 ETH, denied without providing any proof.
• GekkeBelg (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474377.msg63730248#msg63730248): 0.9 BTC, in touch with Betnomi team privately.
• nutters (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474377.msg63734676#msg63734676): 0.125+ BTC, pending for review.
• kennymcc (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474377.msg63730463#msg63730463): New refund request.
• CryptoGods90 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474377.msg63754979#msg63754979): A streamer (promoter of Betnomi) claiming that he hasn't received the promised money.

Apart from these, no one has confirmed about receiving their funds from Betnomi. Some victims were banned from their telegram group for complaining about the stuck amount in the initial stage. Now Betnomi team has completely disabled the text messages for everyone in their telegram group.

Some forum members are widely appreciating this refund process of Betnomi without checking everything properly. But was it really a transparent refund process which can be marked as solved?