You have insulted yourself far more than anyone ever could by simply continuing to open your mouth and spew utterly ridiculous comments and questions. It seems as though you are a glutton for punishment as you never shut up and say the same things over and over ad nauseam. Does someone actually have to slap you upside the head to get you to understand all of this or to at least attempt to get your presimian brain to wrap around such basic math?
Ugh... you don't want to discuss anything do you? I hope you see the irony in your statements considering you do nothing but state the same things over and over again. Though, you do usually come up with unique insults, I'll give you that. |
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What does the "staking" achieve, and what does it do for the 96% or whatever gaw premined if they are staked?
Keeps them off the markets, creates scarcity, and uses natural forces of supply/demand to keep prices up. |
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If my logic is so "ass backwards"... then tell me... Why does GAW have to buy any XPY? They already have the 12 million they need to distribute to prime controllers and haspoint conversion customers. They don't have any more obligation to the price on any exchange other than their own.
If you don't understand that, then I guess we are done then.
Are you saying that GAW can refuse to buy any of the POW coins? Because that's the only way this could possibly make sense. If I transfer a POW coin to Paybase and try to sell it at the promised $20 price, will it work? Yes or no? Sure it will work. There are no markers on the coins. Yes - GAW is losing money, they should buy those coins now, and your logic is indeed flawed. You still haven't explained why they need to buy any coin from an exchange to prop up a floor that simply doesn't exist until paybase is opened. They are just wasting money to buy coins they don't need. See... the problem here is that you all think that GAW has nefarious tendencies. No - your logic is correct then, but GAW is screwing over all those loyal customers who believe in the "floor" and are buying up coins on the exchanges now.
I promise you the small amount of coins that come from the public markets into paybase to cash-out is much smaller than the amount of coins that will be locked up in prime controllers and hashstakers. |
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I will try to reach you once more using the most basic terminology that I can, although I know this is most likely a wasted effort.
Josh promises that XPY can be sold on Paybase Monday for $20. This means that every coin not currently held by GAW will be snapped up and taken there and sold for $20. This means that $20 for every XPC currently in the wild will be coming out of GAW's bank account.
Yes. And this is what they want. They want to prop up the $20 price on paybase... which is their own exchange. It's the only exchange where they can guarantee the $20. Buying $5 coins on another exchange is a wasted effort. Why? Because they just wasted $5 to buy a coin they don't need. If they were to buy these POW coins right now, they can be bought for $5. Gotcha.... no one is arguing what they "could" do. You still have yet to explain why they need to do this. The next part gets a little tricky, as it employs basic mathematics. Take a drink of water and try to stay with me here. LOL. I love this thread. The estimate is that there will be 500,000 POW coins. Gotcha. Today this 500,000 coins could be purchased @5 each. This equals $2,500,000 Yep... I'm following. Monday, (if there is validity to the $20 buyback promise) these coins will be bought on the exchanges and sold on Paybase for $20 each. This equals $10,000,000.
Are you still with me here?? Take a breath, stretch and get ready for the next part, I promise it is the end of this complicated Math. Yep... my calculator is sitting at the ready. $10,000,000 is more than $2,500,000. This means that if you pay $10,000,000 instead of $2,500,000 you will have $7,500,000 LESS in your bank account Monday. You don't say. Well gosh, I never thought of it like that. That makes all the difference in the world. Except... you still haven't explained *why* they need to buy those coins from the exchanges for $5. Then they will be accused of price manipulation and owning 100% of the coins in existence. Just more fodder for what you are trying to do here. If you still do not understand that having $7,500,000 more in your bank account is better than tossing it in the toilet you will most likely never understand.
There. Was that so hard?
Make sure you rent as many miners as you can tonight to get "cheap" XPY so you can cash them in for $20 Monday morning!
Now... if you don't understand that they don't have to buy back all those coins because of natural market forces (arbitrage, and home stakers), then you will most likely never understand. Finances are never as black and white as you imagine them to be. |
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No, what I'm saying is why spend money on exchanges to buy coins? They have enough debits to worry about with the HP->XPY->BTC/USD sell off from their own customers. They need to have the money to support this sell-off from their customers. And by doing so within paybase, they get the same effect from the exchanges that they want without having to buy coins from the exchanges. They can't control the price on the exchange, but they can manipulate behavior a bit by only guaranteeing the $20 via paybase.
Translation: They have no intentions of paying $20 for Paycoins. If they did they would be buying them right now for $5. Example: I am a builder. Let's say I need 100 sheets of plywood for a job next week that I a obligated to do. Today the sheets of plywood are on sale for $5. The sale ends Sunday, and Monday I will have to pay $20 per sheet. Are you REALLY so stupid that you would pay $20 instead of $5?? Do you REALLY not know the difference between $500 and $2,000?? Another product victim of our educational system. Shocking. They don't have to *BUY* any coins. They already have them! Why would would you as a builder go buy cheap plywood when you already have enough for the job? Sure, it's cheap plywood, but all the money you have to buy the cheap plywood is spoken for... to pay the construction guy's salaries for a while. What are you going to tell your contruction guys... sorry, I spent all your salaries on more cheap plywood? The "logic" you are applying here is so ass backwards I do not even know where to start to try to explain it to you. If you do not understand that buying something you must have for $5 instead of $20 is a better business practice I am afraid I will simply never be able to reach you. Kind of like trying to explain to my dog how to knit a sweater. Pretty much a wasted effort. Good luck! Oh, and don't forget to rent more miners!! If my logic is so "ass backwards"... then tell me... Why does GAW have to buy any XPY? They already have the 12 million they need to distribute to prime controllers and haspoint conversion customers. They don't have any more obligation to the price on any exchange other than their own. If you don't understand that, then I guess we are done then. You really are one dumb son of a bitch. Where the hell do you think all those 12 million coins are going? GAW doesn't own them. They just control them for right now. They go to every single investor in paycoin big or small and every single HP owner. GAW has to buy them back for $20(Unless Josh doesn't go back on that) from all of those investors. Everyone holding HP's right now are waiting for them to be converted to paycoins so they can sell them to GAW for $20. You somewhat got it. Yes, GAW will value them at $20 in paybase, if you choose to cash them in. But they have setup their ecosystem in paybase to deflect as much "buyback" as possible. The vast majority of coins will be staked in prime controllers, another large portion will be staked in hashstakers, so the actual number of coins that GAW has to "buy" off of anyone will be pretty small comparatively speaking. And I'll ask you not to insult me, please. People are buying up paycoins cheap(under $20) to send to Paybase to sell back to GAW for the $20 which Josh has promised. SO why isn't GAW buying them up off the exchanges so that they don't have to buy them back for $20 once Paybase goes live? The answer is because they aren't going to buy them all back for $20 unless Josh and everyone working for GAW completely lack basic math skills like you do. Please do not post again about this as you are a complete embarrassment.
Do you want to talk about price manipulation and arbitrage? Or are you just going to continue insulting people? |
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I have the wallet downloaded. I have mined coins. Exactly how do I stake them without going through GAW? I do not see that functionality in the wallet. Please explain the process in simple terms, I would love to try it.
You just leave them in your wallet for 30 days and log into your wallet. The coins basically need to stay at a single address for period of time Okay, so I leave them in my wallet at a single address. What if I have 1,000 XPY and only want to stake 50 XPY? Will you need to use coin control each time to ensure that the same wallet addresses are not spent? Seems really complicated. In reality then you need two wallets.. one for staked coins and one for spending coins. Right? Very user friendly. That's just how POS wallets work. {/shrug} Think of your staking wallet as a type of psuedo cold storage. You just let it sit. You don't even have to have the wallet app running to stake. |
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They don't have to *BUY* any coins. They already have them!
Why would would you as a builder go buy cheap plywood when you already have enough for the job? Sure, it's cheap plywood, but all the money you have to buy the cheap plywood is spoken for... to pay the construction guy's salaries for a while. What are you going to tell your contruction guys... sorry, I spent all your salaries on more cheap plywood?
I would argue from an accounting POV that these discounted coins are a liability against the declared value at retail. If Joe Blow paid $20 for the coin and uses it at a $20 value, its a wash. But if Miner Bob redeems his coin for $20 and it only cost him $7, he sees an increase in value of $13. That $13 has to come from somewhere and it comes out of GAW's pockets. GAW cannot control what buys/sells happen on the exchanges. That would be price manipulation. They can only control what happens on their exchange. |
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They don't have to *BUY* any coins. They already have them!
Why would would you as a builder go buy cheap plywood when you already have enough for the job? Sure, it's cheap plywood, but all the money you have to buy the cheap plywood is spoken for... to pay the construction guy's salaries for a while. What are you going to tell your contruction guys... sorry, I spent all your salaries on more cheap plywood?
You're missing the point, people are buying it below $10 to dump it for $20 next week. Keeping the $5 example, if GAW buys it today it costs $5, if they don't and someone else does they will have to buy the SAME coin for $20 next week. I'm not missing the point. You guys are missing the point that GAW doesn't have to buy any coins. They already have the coins they need to fulfill the HP->XPY conversion. Please acknowledge that you understand this before moving on. Buy today: It costs GAW $5 and they can sell it next week for $20 They don't need to sell the coins. They need all the coins they have now in order to fulfill the HP->XPY conversion (and stake the prime controllers). If they sell off the cheap coins, they are needlessly wasting their floor money on coins they don't need. They need the floor money to keep the value at $20 once paybase opens and people can start working with their XPY there. Don't buy today: someone buys it for $5 and sell it to GAW next week for $20, it costs GAW $20
So people are wondering why they aren't buying right now if there is a $20 floor...
Arbitrage. |
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Please go download the wallet, obtain a coin, and stake on your own.
I didn't think that end-users could stake with the home wallet. If this is true, why even buy a hashstaker from GAW? So you can stake with higher rate of return. The higher rate is based off the prime controller's staking rate which gets an advantage over a home wallet staker. A hashstaker gets a cut of the prime controller's transaction fees, advanced services, etc. If you aren't comfortable with GAW, then by all means, stake your paycoin in your own personal wallet. You don't have to have anything to do with GAW if you don't want. Stake your coins for a while... see if the exchange rate gets better on exchanges after the POW-dump-off and initial HP-XPY conversion sell-off. |
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No, what I'm saying is why spend money on exchanges to buy coins? They have enough debits to worry about with the HP->XPY->BTC/USD sell off from their own customers. They need to have the money to support this sell-off from their customers. And by doing so within paybase, they get the same effect from the exchanges that they want without having to buy coins from the exchanges. They can't control the price on the exchange, but they can manipulate behavior a bit by only guaranteeing the $20 via paybase.
Translation: They have no intentions of paying $20 for Paycoins. If they did they would be buying them right now for $5. Example: I am a builder. Let's say I need 100 sheets of plywood for a job next week that I a obligated to do. Today the sheets of plywood are on sale for $5. The sale ends Sunday, and Monday I will have to pay $20 per sheet. Are you REALLY so stupid that you would pay $20 instead of $5?? Do you REALLY not know the difference between $500 and $2,000?? Another product victim of our educational system. Shocking. They don't have to *BUY* any coins. They already have them! Why would would you as a builder go buy cheap plywood when you already have enough for the job? Sure, it's cheap plywood, but all the money you have to buy the cheap plywood is spoken for... to pay the construction guy's salaries for a while. What are you going to tell your contruction guys... sorry, I spent all your salaries on more cheap plywood? The "logic" you are applying here is so ass backwards I do not even know where to start to try to explain it to you. If you do not understand that buying something you must have for $5 instead of $20 is a better business practice I am afraid I will simply never be able to reach you. Kind of like trying to explain to my dog how to knit a sweater. Pretty much a wasted effort. Good luck! Oh, and don't forget to rent more miners!! If my logic is so "ass backwards"... then tell me... Why does GAW have to buy any XPY? They already have the 12 million they need to distribute to prime controllers and haspoint conversion customers. They don't have any more obligation to the price on any exchange other than their own. If you don't understand that, then I guess we are done then. |
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Ok, so say I make something that violates the terms of service of amazon and sell it to thousands of people. The people using it get in trouble but I get off free as a bird? It goes back to the age old argument: Do guns kill people, or do people who use guns kill people? That's not how it works my friends  and regardless of how you read the ToS they're actually interfering with the transactions of the website, not just doing a Google search. LOL how delusional are these shills? Ignored, but feel free to post your useless rebuttal for other people to read. I have no need for futile bickering. I have all the photographic proof I need. Have a good day shills (or should I say Homero Joshua Garza's secondary accounts). That is how it works. When *YOU* accept the TOS from Walmart, *YOU* are entering a legal contract with Walmart that *YOU* will obey their terms. GAW did not enter that contract. We had the same concerns. After speaking to lawyers at Amazon extensively they've explained it in a way that makes sense to us at least. The source code for the plugin has to communicate with an outside GAW owned server... meaning that even though the plugin is hosted on the computer of the end-user that GAW is now also "accessing the site" and that makes them liable to follow the TOS just as everyone else does. The source code from the plugin ZincSave was already downloaded and audited by Amazon (back when it first was a thing before it went offline) and a third party so they are intimately familiar with how it works and the API calls it makes online. We hope to have our full report online soon. We just got confirmation from Best Buy this morning regarding the situation and a comment from them and are still waiting to hear back from Target once again. I'd just like to thank Coinfire for their reporting on this and suchmoon for this thread. Notice how not one of these shills has commented on this UH OH, I THINK WE ARE ONTO SOMETHING BOYS lmfao. So what happens when GAW gets Cease and Desists from all the retailers that it's coin is supposed to be used at? The plugin is not released yet... so it remains to be seen. I appreciate Coinfire doing their investigative pieces. |
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No, what I'm saying is why spend money on exchanges to buy coins? They have enough debits to worry about with the HP->XPY->BTC/USD sell off from their own customers. They need to have the money to support this sell-off from their customers. And by doing so within paybase, they get the same effect from the exchanges that they want without having to buy coins from the exchanges. They can't control the price on the exchange, but they can manipulate behavior a bit by only guaranteeing the $20 via paybase.
Translation: They have no intentions of paying $20 for Paycoins. If they did they would be buying them right now for $5. Example: I am a builder. Let's say I need 100 sheets of plywood for a job next week that I a obligated to do. Today the sheets of plywood are on sale for $5. The sale ends Sunday, and Monday I will have to pay $20 per sheet. Are you REALLY so stupid that you would pay $20 instead of $5?? Do you REALLY not know the difference between $500 and $2,000?? Another product victim of our educational system. Shocking. They don't have to *BUY* any coins. They already have them! Why would would you as a builder go buy cheap plywood when you already have enough for the job? Sure, it's cheap plywood, but all the money you have to buy the cheap plywood is spoken for... to pay the construction guy's salaries for a while. What are you going to tell your contruction guys... sorry, I spent all your salaries on more cheap plywood? |
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I have no doubt that you do not understand what I am saying, that is quite obvious. The entire Paycoin mining system is in essence a single pool controlled by GAW, which is the primary coin holder. It does not matter what fancy catch phrases are used to describe it. I'd have to disagree with you here. During POW, you can mine your coins into existence using any pool you choose into your own personal wallet. All of this is outside GAW's control. During POS, you are free to stake your coins in your own personal wallet, which is also outside GAW's control. Thanks for pointing that out Sherlock. You think maybe I knew that since I am renting miners? Maybe you should scan back a page and see where this was already discussed. Also: Better hurry up and rent some more miners, the clock is ticking down! Got.. To.. Stay.. Awake.... Little... Longer...Must... trade... entire... future... for... promises.. by.... guy.. with... vest.... So your beef is with GAW and not with Paycoin, am I reading you correctly? I just want to establish what we are talking about here. |
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Please go download the wallet, obtain a coin, and stake on your own.
I have the wallet downloaded. I have mined coins. Exactly how do I stake them without going through GAW? I do not see that functionality in the wallet. Please explain the process in simple terms, I would love to try it. Click on the "Minting" tab. You can see the age of the coins/transactions you have in the wallet. As per the POS portion of the whitepaper, your coin needs to age 30 days before it will stake. |
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Man, that dude is rollin'. |
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Look at it this way. Say there will be 500K coins out in circulation by end of POW. And GAW expects another 500K of dumping from customers at paybase. Why would they eat into their own reserves to reward dumpers (GAW is still losing $7 of their reserve per coin to the dumpers)... when they can just buoy their own customer base at the $20 promised? The miner/dumpers will have to take their low sell bids off of the exchanges and take them to paybase to get $20 per coin. Removing the low sell bids from the exchanges can increase the value of the remaining coins on the exchanges.
So you're saying that instead of spending 500x7 = 3.5 million USD to buy up coins now, GAW would rather spend 500 x 20 = 10 million to buy up the same coins later? The only way this could possibly make sense - and someone mentioned that already - if GAW introduced some kind of hold on external deposits, giving priority to HP conversions. But that would screw all those HT pumpers buying up "cheap" coins on coin-swap now. No, what I'm saying is why spend money on exchanges to buy coins? They have enough debits to worry about with the HP->XPY->BTC/USD sell off from their own customers. They need to have the money to support this sell-off from their customers. And by doing so within paybase, they get the same effect from the exchanges that they want without having to buy coins from the exchanges. They can't control the price on the exchange, but they can manipulate behavior a bit by only guaranteeing the $20 via paybase. |
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I think we have a winner  I'm not so sure what is a "winner" about the question. You don't stake USD. |
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Gaw did not, or does not now hold a 100% of the hashing power in the pool,one of the reasons the coin forked was that people were throwing so much power at the pool it overtook Gaw and caused a fork
Umm, that ends tomorrow Einstein. After that they will indeed control 100% of the "pool" hashing power. I am more convinced that Idiocracy is upon us every time I read one of these posts written by someone who is completely oblivious to what is going on, yet is convinced they are Wile E Coyote, Super Genius. Oh, and to get the honor of being able to mine in this pool , all you have to do is buy one of these and "stick coins in it". for a long period of time. Never mind that these cute little machines are nothing more than a fancy CAD rendering and do not actually exist. Then you truly have no idea of what you speak. Please go download the wallet, obtain a coin, and stake on your own. |
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I have no doubt that you do not understand what I am saying, that is quite obvious. The entire Paycoin mining system is in essence a single pool controlled by GAW, which is the primary coin holder. It does not matter what fancy catch phrases are used to describe it. I'd have to disagree with you here. During POW, you can mine your coins into existence using any pool you choose into your own personal wallet. All of this is outside GAW's control. During POS, you are free to stake your coins in your own personal wallet, which is also outside GAW's control. |
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And yet you are buying into a pool where the people holding the majority of the coins control 100% of the hashing power. Forever. I don't quite get what you are saying here. "Buying into a pool... hashing power..." I'm not mining paycoins. |
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