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1081  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 26, 2019, 08:25:21 PM
Interesting if say LFC or Mic would sell all their btc now (hypothetically) and convert it to silver where would they keep all that silver? They would probably need a separate room at the very least. Maybe even a separate building or keep it in a bank vault?  

Cashing out or relocation would then require a semi truck to carry out 

At today's prices, it would take somewhat over 100 BTC to make a million USD. 100 BTC in silver would be over a third of a ton. Good luck hoisting that in your Bug Out Bag.
1082  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] [BSV] [Bitcoin SV] Original Satoshi Vision on: July 26, 2019, 08:10:03 PM
It is Bitcoin - but not ur BTC  (what is altered SegwitCoin)

Never will be: centralized,

False.

Quote
unsustainable,

While unknowable a priori, that is quite unlikely.

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average Joe can't run a full node

False.

Quote
so it's very unBitcoin.

Well, you're batting zero for three in your stated criteria. So... ::bzzzt!:: wrong! It's the most Bitcoiniest of the Bitcoins. At least from the standpoint of the design of the protocol itself. The only legitimate claim BTC/Segwit/Core has on the title is popularity. Which can be fleeting.

Few mining pools, few nodes and less and less. It's centralizing, that's a fact.

Average Joe won't spend 1600usd (HDDs only) to run a full node

As long as there are no structural barriers for new entrants to the space of non-mining, fully-validating clients (i.e., what you so blithely mis-refer to as 'full nodes'), the network is exactly as decentralized as it need be. It's not as if having lots of non-mining, fully-validating clients actually provides any benefit to the network at large.

As far as mining:
# of pools required to make over 50% on BTC today: 3 - BTC.com 28.47%, F2Pool 13.19%, Poolin 11.81%
# of pools required to make over 50% on BSV today: 5 - Coingeek 27.08%, Mempool 11.81%, SVPool 6.25%, Dpool 4.17%, BMG Pool 3.47%
So... ::bzzzt!:: wrong! Again.

https://blockchair.com/bitcoin-sv/charts/hashrate-distribution
CoinGeek - 29%
svpool.com - 13%
Mempool.com - 11%
3 pools, 53%

So... ::bzzzt!:: wrong! Again.

Today, tut, Today. Do try to keep up.



So... ::bzzzt!:: wrong! Again.

More telling, however, is your lack of response to the following:
# of pools required to make over 50% on BTC today: 3 - BTC.com 28.47%, F2Pool 13.19%, Poolin 11.81%

Kinda belies the absurdity of your 'bubut muh BSV mining centralization as compared to BTC', amirite?
1083  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] [BSV] [Bitcoin SV] Original Satoshi Vision on: July 26, 2019, 07:14:18 PM
It is Bitcoin - but not ur BTC  (what is altered SegwitCoin)

Never will be: centralized,

False.

Quote
unsustainable,

While unknowable a priori, that is quite unlikely.

Quote
average Joe can't run a full node

False.

Quote
so it's very unBitcoin.

Well, you're batting zero for three in your stated criteria. So... ::bzzzt!:: wrong! It's the most Bitcoiniest of the Bitcoins. At least from the standpoint of the design of the protocol itself. The only legitimate claim BTC/Segwit/Core has on the title is popularity. Which can be fleeting.

Few mining pools, few nodes and less and less. It's centralizing, that's a fact.

Average Joe won't spend 1600usd (HDDs only) to run a full node

As long as there are no structural barriers for new entrants to the space of non-mining, fully-validating clients (i.e., what you so blithely mis-refer to as 'full nodes'), the network is exactly as decentralized as it need be. It's not as if having lots of non-mining, fully-validating clients actually provides any benefit to the network at large.

As far as mining:
# of pools required to make over 50% on BTC today: 3 - BTC.com 28.47%, F2Pool 13.19%, Poolin 11.81%
# of pools required to make over 50% on BSV today: 5 - Coingeek 27.08%, Mempool 11.81%, SVPool 6.25%, Dpool 4.17%, BMG Pool 3.47%
So... ::bzzzt!:: wrong! Again.
1084  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] [BSV] [Bitcoin SV] Original Satoshi Vision on: July 26, 2019, 07:04:54 PM
Its not based on anything other than a preference of belief, yours is that BSV is closer to being the Bitcoin that Satoshi intended. There's no way to prove that of course

May be no way of knowing what Satoshi intended. However, we do know what Satoshi initially bequeathed us (haha - bequeathed - almost like religion again:) ). And we know that BSV is much closer to that than is BTC. And getting closer with each release.

Just like religion, bitcoin is allowed to evolve.

Well, I'm no theologian. But that sounds looney. I thought a central tenet of theism -- each such -- posits an absolute unyielding truth. This notion is incompatible with the notion of an evolving religion.

Though that may only serve to illustrate the stretch of your Bitcoin as religion analogy.

Of course, Bitcoin is allowed to evolve. (permissionless, anyone?) However, one is also free to question the wisdom of an evolving Bitcoin. I think it very unwise. At least in the absence of any proven defects. You seem to think others are smarter than Satoshi, and have understanding of the tradeoffs better than does s/he. Perhaps. Perhaps not.

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Nobody said it _has_ to stay a particular way, that is, unless you believe Satoshi was some omnipotent, perfect being and the white paper itself is some sort of divine text.

The white paper does not need to be divinely inspired in order for it to describe the most optimal solution for this space. Again, in the absence of proven defects...
1085  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] [BSV] [Bitcoin SV] Original Satoshi Vision on: July 26, 2019, 02:26:00 AM
Its not based on anything other than a preference of belief, yours is that BSV is closer to being the Bitcoin that Satoshi intended. There's no way to prove that of course

May be no way of knowing what Satoshi intended. However, we do know what Satoshi initially bequeathed us (haha - bequeathed - almost like religion again:) ). And we know that BSV is much closer to that than is BTC. And getting closer with each release.
1086  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 25, 2019, 11:05:31 PM

a software: what ever you call it.

software is only one type of handling the (mathematical) algorithm in a convenient, automated way. So in fact "software" is only your name for it.
What it is, i bet you know: a blockchain with a simple, specific usecase. The chain (bitcoin) itself is just "output", coming from the algorithm (used by software).
"Software" is clearly incorrect. Looking at complex things the simple way doesn't make them simple at all.
Ok, thank you.
Can Bitcoin be considered as an input to an algorithm (used by software).

Only in the same sense as you yourself can be considered as a specific sequence of cytoseine, guanine, adenine, and thymine, as an input to ribosomes.
1087  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 25, 2019, 11:00:08 PM
This page on the thread must be one of the longest ever.

You must be new here.
1088  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 25, 2019, 09:43:25 PM
My question to those who predict 100K within less than two years or so.
Why the discounting mechanism is not working?

Either the model is wrong/irrelevant OR the market is incapable of correctly pricing future expectations now.

The latter.

We've seen this time and time again. The world at large has not yet awakened to the fact that they need a form of money that is not inflationary, and is free from intervening middlemen who can conspire to thwart or devalue their transactions.

You are so funny.
The world is going on the other direction. Boris, trump, marie le pen and all the others.

it is very difficult to understand whether you are making any meaningful point at all

The world would have a form of money if it was united as a country. With all these conflicts; either economic, monetary, technological, religious or others, due to the desire of domination, I do not think the world will have a single currency.

Bitcoin does not need to be a 'single currency for the entire world' for increasingly large fractions of people in each corner of the world to awaken to the fact that a weightless, invisible, uncensorable, uninflatable, unconfiscatable form of money is A Good Thing.

Quote
Even if it will happen in the future, I don't think that a software can be a source of international monetary system.

Hmmm. Good thing Bitcoin is ever so much more than merely 'a software'.
1089  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 25, 2019, 09:36:23 PM
.... zooming the pic 400%

I don't know why I always seem to see an ironic pun regarding your username in your posts.

I don't know either. But really, always?

Nope, not really always. But twice in a week or two just kinda stuck out.

XD
1090  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 25, 2019, 09:32:42 PM
Events to celebrate:

1. WO page parity
2. 100K BTCUSD
3. WO Post parity
4. Gold Parity (BTC capitalisation equals Gold Capitalisation).

If we are to assume that appreciation in Bitcoin price comes in large part from cannibalization of gold market, you have 3. & 4. reversed.

Early musings:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152944.0

$800K assumes static gold valuation. If bitcoin purchases are funded by gold sales, the napkinback figures say $400K crossover.

Funny thing, i did the exact same "back of the envelope" calculations years ago, even before joining the forum, but i got quite differnet numbers.
Copying and pasting from vbery old spreasheet:

Circulating Bitcoin   21,000,000
GOLD CAPTIALISATION   7,311,002,497,490.22
http://onlygold.com/Info/All-The-Gold-In-The-World.asp   
   
      
Bitcoin share   50.00%
Equal Share   174,071

So, if Bitcoin Equals Gold to 50% of current Gold Capitalisation, I get the value of a single bitcoin at 175,000 USD.
For Bitcoin to match gold capitalisation it need to get to 350K USD.

All computation made with 21 mios BTC supply (resulting in conservative estimates)

So basically I get half your valuation, with the same method!

Easy to see. The figure I found for above-ground gold was approx 10 Billion oz. I just 'rounded' it to 10.5B in order to divide neater into Bitcoin's 21M eventual count. So there's item 1. I don't know whether your 7.3B is any closer to the truth than is my 10.5B. And for the purposes of this sort of blue-sky figuring, I posit that it really doesn't matter.

I assume the rest of the discrepancy is in the $/oz for gold. When I ran the figures, gold was enjoying a local peak of $1600. I don't see the value you used.
1091  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 25, 2019, 08:17:58 PM
.... zooming the pic 400% 

I don't know why I always seem to see an ironic pun regarding your username in your posts.
1092  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 25, 2019, 07:54:07 PM
...and we were doing so well...
1093  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 25, 2019, 07:52:57 PM
Events to celebrate:

1. WO page parity
2. 100K BTCUSD
3. WO Post parity
4. Gold Parity (BTC capitalisation equals Gold Capitalisation).

If we are to assume that appreciation in Bitcoin price comes in large part from cannibalization of gold market, you have 3. & 4. reversed.

Early musings:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152944.0

$800K assumes static gold valuation. If bitcoin purchases are funded by gold sales, the napkinback figures say $400K crossover.
1094  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 25, 2019, 07:35:50 PM

555 means something! If you can't count 555 can




And you can count on that. Time after time.
1095  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] [BSV] [Bitcoin SV] Original Satoshi Vision on: July 25, 2019, 07:30:46 PM

You sound salty, mon frere. It's a URL. Get over it.

Salt, sugar and/or fat. whatever.  

I find it weird that you seem inclined to minimize what you understand to be an ongoing claim of bcash SV diptwats - they are trying to get and to keep bitcoin in their name,

Yes. 'Bitcoin' has always been part of the name 'Bitcoin SV' - is that a tautology? And yes, we proponents of SV intend to keep it there. As long as it takes for the world at large to recognize that Bitcoin SV is the Bitcoiniest of the Bitcoins. At which point the world at large will come to refer to it as simply 'Bitcoin', relegating the then-to-be-unpopular BTC to the name of 'Bitcoin Segwit', 'Bitcoin Core', or whatever other appellation it manages to conjure up with any amount of stickiness.

Quote
and we also know that a major part of the value that comes with in bcash SV, besides the strategic pumping to try to create the impression of demand and value is that the stupid-ass contradiction laden faketoshi continues to purposefully (and however preposterous that it seems to many) hold himself out as if he were to the real inventor of bitcoin.

While I hold no knowledge of the Satoshiness of CSW, I must cede your point that it is likely that at least some of the market perception of BSV is driven by that very question. Though OTOH, this may work against the acceptance of this chain rather than for it. What with all the Craig Derangement Syndrome endemic to this space.

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Furthermore, it is not just the name of the website, you go along with exaggerator.  Right on the top left of the homepage of that website, what the fuck does it say up there?  Answer:  BITCOIN BLOCKS.  

Of course it does. SV is the Bitcoiniest of all the Bitcoins.

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So shouldn't I say "whatever" to you in regards to your diversion and minimization tactics?

Knock yourself out, brotherman (or brotherwoman ... sisterwoman...).

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The only legitimate claim BTC/Segwit/Core has on the title is popularity. Which can be fleeting.

If you just call [ BTC ], "bitcoin" many of us should know what you are talking about because there are no others that really matter in any kind of meaningful way..

Yet here you are, yammering away in a dedicated SV thread. One might almost think that it ... ummm ... mattered to you.
1096  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] [BSV] [Bitcoin SV] Original Satoshi Vision on: July 25, 2019, 07:13:20 PM
The idiocy is wishing to ad up to 52.6TB of data per year. You'll have to by 4X 14TB HDD in RAID mode, which means 1600USD of storage.

Well, no. First, 14TB is not the current sweet spot in $/TB. And there is certainly no requirement for RAID. The first source I checked shows NAS-class 4TB HDDs for under a hunnert*. Probably can get it down to $1200 with a half-hour's investment, but we'll go with $1400. Not off by an order of magnitude, but significant.

This year. If we get 52.6TB of blockchain this year, it'll surprise everyone. And likely be reflected in the price that the utility of such storage is worth. At which point $1400 will be trivial to anyone who buys a $165 BSV today. But that's just this year.

If it is only next year that we reach 52.6TB -- still unlikely -- that'll be less than $900 in storage costs.

Will we hit that the following year? Maybe. Maybe $600 high side cost estimate. Trending towards trivial.

And costs will only continue to go down from there.

More importantly, with an average tx size of 250 bytes, the system could support more than 200 Billion txs in that 52.6TB.

Yes, in order to store every economic transaction generated by all humans, one will need storage. Get over it. Kind of goes hand-in-hand with the actual utility provided to humanity.

Incidentally, I don't think your 52.6TB figure is rooted in reality. What were your assumptions?

And I'll acknowledge that with the price of data on the blockchain being low, the average tx size will likely be much greater than current. So 200 Billion tx is a stretch. Think of it as a high side bound. Whatevs.

*https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16822236599
1097  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] [BSV] [Bitcoin SV] Original Satoshi Vision on: July 25, 2019, 06:40:24 PM
It is Bitcoin - but not ur BTC  (what is altered SegwitCoin)

Never will be: centralized,

False.

Quote
unsustainable,

While unknowable a priori, that is quite unlikely.

Quote
average Joe can't run a full node

False.

Quote
so it's very unBitcoin.

Well, you're batting zero for three in your stated criteria. So... ::bzzzt!:: wrong! It's the most Bitcoiniest of the Bitcoins. At least from the standpoint of the design of the protocol itself. The only legitimate claim BTC/Segwit/Core has on the title is popularity. Which can be fleeting.
1098  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] [BSV] [Bitcoin SV] Original Satoshi Vision on: July 25, 2019, 06:34:19 PM

You sound salty, mon frere. It's a URL. Get over it.
1099  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 24, 2019, 11:26:36 PM
My question to those who predict 100K within less than two years or so.
Why the discounting mechanism is not working?

Either the model is wrong/irrelevant OR the market is incapable of correctly pricing future expectations now.

The latter.

We've seen this time and time again. The world at large has not yet awakened to the fact that they need a form of money that is not inflationary, and is free from intervening middlemen who can conspire to thwart or devalue their transactions.

You are so funny.
The world is going on the other direction. Boris, trump, marie le pen and all the others.

I don't see what your observation about so-called 'leaders' has to do with the price of tea in China. Want to explain yourself?
1100  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 24, 2019, 11:19:35 PM
My question to those who predict 100K within less than two years or so.
Why the discounting mechanism is not working?

If it is highly likely that 100K would be there by 2021, we should have mad buying of btc and its options right now.
That's my biggest beef with the S/F models.
Either the model is wrong/irrelevant OR the market is incapable of correctly pricing future expectations now.

Then you should address your question to the person who put this model together:

https://stephanlivera.com/episode/86/

Go to minute 29:00 onward, PlanB is going to answer to your question.

jbreher is right: People is simply not aware of the model and the halving effect on the stock to flow.

To be clear, I am not saying that the stock:flow model is definitive. I am saying that the eventual price is very high, due to the endemic properties of crypto as money. And that getting from a price of Zero to a price of FuckYou is bound to take significant time, and be very chaotic along the way.

The stock:flow model is simply an empirical model that seems to roughly explain the observed underlying reality. IMNSHO.

I expect anyone that trades with any expectation of fidelity to the S:F model will likely do well on average, but likely be wiped out at some point along the way where that fidelity breaks down completely.

We humans like things in neat little predictable buckets. But while markets are derived from human behavior, price predictions are not amenable to mere mathematical analysis.
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