Glad the Premier League is back this week. Two games I'm really looking forward to are Tottenham vs Liverpool and Watford vs Manchester United. The Spurs game could be the battle to take or keep the number one spot but games like this could even be vital for the title shot as I don't expect either team to lose many games this year. If Watford manage to get three points they could even take the top spot themselves (especially if the Spurs/Liverpool game is a draw). Watford are on a roll at the moment and have the home advantage but they won't have an easy ride against United who are looking to turn their form around after their last win. A loss to Watford really would be another kick to the nuts for Jose and he needs to get some wins to keep his position.

But there's no grantees it will.ever  You're all just hoping it does which is wishful thinking. Don't get me wrong, I think the crypto market will recover and bitcoin will likely gain a few thousand in value eventually, and maybe even eth will get back to its all time high and maybe even double that eventually, but nothing is guaranteed and bitcoin and crypto will likely go through many ups and downs or bubbles over the next 5-10 years.

Ethereum's drastic fall recently is quite surprising to me as ETH actually seems to be one of the coins with at least something behind it with smart contracts etc. Does anyone know if there's any accepted reasons why it's fallen so much? Haven't really seen any bad news that could have caused it so I'm quite baffled by this drop.


Wasn't that Bitcoin Cash? Regardless and like I said above, I thought that if any coin would gain any ground on bitcoin or come to rival it would be eth. I still don't think eth is over and far from dead and it'll probably bounce back at some point though.

He's probably just one of those people who likes to make outlandish claims to get media attention.

BTW, why is he called Professor Bitcorn?


I find a lot of economists don't actually know what they're talking about or are just themselves guessing or wildly speculating.

Wishing things like this is a pretty naive outlook. If you had any wishes why would it be to go back and merely just buy bitcoin. Why not go back and invent bitcoin, or Microsoft or Facebook etc or buy every winning lottery ticket you could. I get why people regret these things as they feel like they've missed out on an easy and reachable way they could have got insanely rich very quick, but instead of dwelling on the past just look to the future and try spot the next new big thing. That is obviously never as easy as it sounds but it wasn't for those who choose to get involved with bitcoin back when they did and hindsight is always 20-20.

You can't make anyone accept bitcoin nor do I think we should. All we should be doing is spreading the word and adoption, but not by force or fear. If you're introducing bitcoin to someone then do so from a neutral perspective and explain both the benefits and risks. Yes, there are scams and thefts but there are scams and thefts with fiat money. Explain why these thefts happen and how you  can protect yourself against them, but don't even try sell them bitcoin as sure-fire guaranteed way to make money as it isn't and that often rings alarm bells for people and scares them off.

For the same reason it's not used in the veterinary or sports sectors/industries yet. Why do they need to use it? Bitcoin is a long way off for becoming common place as being used for payments for such things if ever. As long as bitcoin is so tumultuous then it will likely remain a niche payment system and certainly won't be adopted by the mainstream anytime soon. I think there's certainly more chance of certain industries adopting blockchain tech such as the financial industry, but they won't be adopting bitcoin just the tech obviously behind it.

But this isn't really true. Bitcoin isn't a magical money making scheme and there are no guaranteed returns here no matter how long you hold your money. Bitcoin isn't guaranteed to last forever and could well fall by many more thousands and never get back to the all time high or even where it is currently. What then? Keep holding in the hope that one day it will return again? Again, nothing is guaranteed with bitcoin no matter how long your are prepared to hold.

As I previously explained, Bitcoin obviously wasn't created as fraud or pyramid scheme and it was created with what I believe to be good intentions to make a new economic model for truly fair money, but unfortunately it does have some similarities with a pyramid/ponzi schemes and I can see why people make the comparison. Ponzis and pyramids are scams created by a fraudster with the intent of getting people to invest in something that doesn't exist. You could argue that bitcoin doesn't exist other than in code and the early adopters were the ones who benefited the most and for the model to keep going new money needs to keep coming in. If that new money stops coming in or most holders lose confidence and dump their coins then that could be catastrophic. Bitcoin could then collapse at that point and if that does happen then not only will bitcoin go down in the history books as a failure but many people will then refer to it as a scam/fraud and the new tulip mania and so on. I really hope that doesn't happen but it's something that would be out of our control.

No idea who this guy is, but whilst bitcoin and crypto could well keep dropping, I think the chance of bitcoin going to zero anytime soon if at all is very slim. Will there ever be a time when people regard bitcoin as completely worthless? I'm not so sure. but there will always be a need for some sort of decentralized currency either way so crypto will always have value, it just depends which one and obviously the best will likely prevail and reign supreme.

Thanks for this. I'll watch it on the way to work tomorrow. Not gonna be the same as being on that cruise round the med though  .


C'mon dude. Really? Violence isn't acceptable for someone you merely dislike, even Roger Ver. Let's not be an internet tough guy because we both know you wouldn't have done this. I'm sure there are plenty of other places he'll be at in the near future if you really wanted to give him a piece of your mind.

You need facts to back this up otherwise it is just baseless speculation. If satoshi was going to sell his coins then he almost certainly would have by now. He probably either purposely abandoned them for fairness, or he's dead. Maybe both. I think there's more chance of a supercomputer cracking his keys at some point than him actually coming back.

Are you actually being serious here? If we're going with crazy conspiracies then Satoshi, in theory, could be an alien or the NSA. What you've just proposed is crazy and based on nothing, but even if it was true it doesn't change anything. Swap satoshi for the current holder and then ask yourself why he/they haven't cashed out any yet. Because they've never moved I'm more inclined to believe they still belong to satoshi and he either has purposely abandoned them or is dead.

You think these three things lead will lead to this random $96000 figure he plucked out of his behind?  . A car dealership accepting bitcoins really isn't a big deaL. It's nothing at all. I really hate these pointless speculations based on nothing but wishful thinking.


Why does 69k seem doable but 96 is a stretch? I think 60k within five years is very optimistic. I wish I was full of optimism as everyone else seems to be.

No, but have you read the whitepaper and satoshi's postings on here? The model is spelled out in detail right there. It's obviously up to you whether you believe it or not, but I think if it was satoshi's idea to create a scam or ponzi from the get-go then he would have cashed out his coins by now and be enjoying his life as a billionaire on a beach somewhere whilst he shops for Lamborghinis. What else would he be waiting for? To become a trillionaire? I doubt it.

20% is pretty standard tax rate for things like capital gains. It's also the entry level income tax bracket for many countries.


The whole income tax is theft stance is a whole different argument, but I think taxes are beneficial for a functioning society. Maybe income shouldn't be taxed but instead just rely on heavy sales taxes, especially on luxury goods. That way people can chose whether they want to spend their money/pay taxes rather than be forced to.


What does it matter whether it's up or lower another percent? Paying taxes is expected in the vast majority of countries, and bitcoin or any other industry isn't exempt from taxes so paying them shouldn't be a deterrent to anyone other than those who are just using bitcoin to evade taxes.

Bitcoin obviously wasn't created as fraud or pyramid scheme and it was created with what I believe to be good intentions to make a new economic model for truly fair money, but unfortunately it does have some similarities with a pyramid/ponzi schemes and I can see why people make the comparison. Ponzis and pyramids are scams created by a fraudster with the intent of getting people to invest in something that doesn't exist. You could argue that bitcoin doesn't exist other than in code and the early adopters were the ones who benefited the most and for the model to keep going new money needs to keep coming in. If that new money stops coming in or most holders lose confidence and dump their coins then that could be catastrophic. Bitcoin could then collapse at that point and if that does happen then not only will bitcoin go down in the history books as a failure but many people will then refer to it as a scam/fraud and the new tulip mania and so on. I really hope that doesn't happen but it's something that would be out of our control.

I don't think it's a problem either, but I'm not 100% sure it will get back to $20k again either, or if it does it may take a lot longer than we expected and probably not within a year (just my opinion). I think the rapid rise during late last year could have been a bit of a fluke driven mostly by FOMO from the oodles or newbies getting involved on something that at the time looked like it was never going to end, but for such a value to be achieved again I think we'll need a string of good news with no FUD in between. ETFs getting accepted and other mainstream adoption will help but we'll probably keep needing that good news coming in to sustain the drive and make sure another bubble doesn't pop once people get a little spooked by a bit of a tumble.

I've been involved with crypto since 2013 and on this forum since early 2014 and there's always been waves of hype and excitement, but nothing like what was seen late last year as it was just crazy with the amount of newbies that were jumping on board the hype train due to FOMO (which is what I think powered it mostly). I'm sure we'll see many more of these cycles over the next decade or so but I do hope one day bitcoin levels off and calms down and can be used more as a legitimate and stable currency. With so much money to be made and greedy whales and investors I'm sure it will be a fair while before we see that calm however.

What's the point of any donations? Many people do donate bitcoin. Just because you don't doesn't mean nobody else does. I think donating money in general is rare these days though, because most people don't want to give their hard earned cash (or coins) away, but I see a fair few youtubers with crypto addresses in their descriptions boxes and if you check the addresses oftentimes they will have been sent something. I think women tend to get more donations than men though (and that's usually the case with online donations), but fans of bitcoin do tend to show their appreciation of other people also accepting it and send some money their way. Even if no money is actually donated then I still think having the donation addresses there spreads awareness or interest so it's all good.

We can't stop people from using it how they want, but there's no reason why it can't be both a currency and investment. Saving money should give you interest over time and that's how bitcoin is designed so the less comes into existence as time goes by, as opposed to fiat where more and more gets printed which devalues everybody else cash. If you want to use your bitcoins for payment for goods and services then you can, but those that want to hold it as a (potential) investment can also do so.