That procedure is correct if the following apply:

1. A forum escrow from this list:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2439910

is used and

2. BTC is released by the escrow to the buyer once money reflects on the seller's bank account as a cleared and positive balance.

That's because there are scammers who expect the seller to release the coins after claiming to have made the payment or after showing fake screen shots of the bank transfer.

Never instruct escrow to release the coins before the transfer appears as cleared funds on the account. This is critically important. It is a fatal mistake to assume that screen shots of a SWIFT transfer automatically means funds are 100% on their way. NEVER allow anyone to pressure you to release the coins, no matter how convincing the transfer confirmation appears to be. Wait for the money to arrive and let the scammer fume in anger when he realizes there will be no free coins for him this time.

But if what the OP wants to say is he will send the bitcoins to the escrow after he gets the money on his bank account, then he is a scammer.

I admit I’m not wealthy and I'm impressed with all these numbers but 50,000 bitcoins? $489,000,000? That’s like the GDP of some of the poorest countries on this planet.

Right. Should be easy to move that amount across borders. Banks won’t ask questions and customs will turn a blind eye.

Do not forget to use escrow for your safety and also for the protection of those you trade with.

Here is a list of forum escrows:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2439910.0

Send anything first without escrow is not safe.

It’s one or a combination of several factors which promote and sustain this plague. Greed is one. It’s a common human trait to want something excessively. Then you have gullibility. Scams have become so sophisticated that you read and hear of stories of people who are 100% convinced that a coin doubler works or that using escrow is a waste of time. Some are so hypnotized and blinded that they will still send their coins to scammers even when shown damning and glaring evidence of the scam.

Sad. People should really be much more careful. Fraud can never be eliminated but it can be mitigated by common sense and prudence. Always use escrow when transacting with strangers. Don’t ignore red flags and be vigilant. Scammers make mistakes too and detecting those mistakes is the key to stopping these thieves on their tracks.

The problem is there is always a risk, however small or large, of the device being exposed to software tampering or manipulation. It might be sealed but we all know in this age there are people who can perfectly replicate anything.

Devices like Trezor are essentially at the same level of private vaults or bank accounts so people will feel nervous when buying them from unofficial sources. This probably explains the quiet thread but I hope you will find a buyer if you have legit intentions. I personally wouldn't buy a wallet from strangers.

It has always been prepaid. Not one single provider or exchange offers a card with a credit line attached to it. Earlier cards offered by Cryptopay, Wirex, Advcash etc all required coins first be converted to fiat. The money (USD, GBP, EUR) was then loaded into the cards. The cards worked only after completing the loading process. So essentially one had to prepay funds into the cards before ATM and merchants honored them.

I'm sure fraud was not the only concern behind the Wave Crest saga. It probably was triggered by compliance issues. Accepting KYC documents from less developed economies is a very challenging process. Unlike the US SSN system and the EEA's national ID card system, it is difficult to verify and authenticate an ID from, for example, Brazil or Vietnam or China and all those other countries.

And another cause of the Wave Crest card drama was that one unknown factor. Where was all that money loaded into the cards coming from? Were they laundered funds? Looking back, I think I can understand Visa's decision to shut down the Wave Crest card program. The card had a daily transaction limit of USD 2000 with no lifetime and annual limits, making it a convenient tool for money laundering. One only needed 5 cards to hit the 10k USD transaction limit, a reportable threshold. But of course none is ever reported.

If you have all the facts and evidence backing up your accusation, if you know his true identity and his address, then you should first go to the police and file a case of fraud. Alternatively if cost is not an issue, you should approach a private attorney and instruct him to file the case with the relevant authorities.

The police might qualify the crime as fraud or theft or both. You will need proof of the wallet and coins being yours and you will probably need to explain the chain of events leading up to the scam. Examples of that will be evidences of communication you had with that person, the transaction or payment trail on the public ledger etc. And because he could negate your claims, you should be prepared to show that the destination address actually belongs to him. Not all police officers and fraud detectives are familiar with crypto-related crimes, let alone the underlying technology behind it, so be prepared to carefully explain how you were scammed.

However the judge sees bitcoins or ETH or other coins, theft is theft and fraud is fraud. The focus will be on whether you were unlawfully deprived of property or monies.

Sharp eyed hawk you are! A well busted catch. Or a well caught bust. Whichever.

Looks like this is something to watch out for. Plagiarism of merited posts.

Use escrow at all times when transacting with people you do not know and trust. Here is a list of forum escrows:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2439910

Never send first, not even incrementally. Do not use reversible payment methods such as PayPal, Skrill or Venmo. They are easily challenged and disputed which often leads to funds being reversed or blocked. Escrow can only protect if you use a permanent or irreversible payment method. Remember this.

A screen shot or picture of the payment receipt is not a final and conclusive form of payment. You must have cleared and spendable funds (cash) or a positive account balance (if using SWIFT wire) before releasing the coins. Do not allow anyone to pressure you to instruct escrow to release the coins based alone a screen shot of wired payment, an MTCN, a reference number or any kind of document purporting to prove a successfully processed payment.

The account will be tagged and rendered worthless soon. Count on it.

Selling accounts promotes scam and other dishonest schemes such as fraudulently participating in signature campaigns. Scammers use them to pretend to be reputable higher-tiered members of the forum. They exploit the accounts for selfish purposes which do not serve the best interest of the forum community.

Why are you selling the account? The account is doomed and will be red tagged. Being open here about your reasons won’t affect that fate. As soon as you opened this thread, you forever destroyed the account. There is no turning back. A DT member will soon find your post and tag the account.

Edit.. there you go. That reddish tint dramatically devalued your account’s worth.

Most banks are risk-averse and will not entertain proposals related to cryptocurrency or if it remotely endangers their compliance position. Bankers tend to be anti-crypto so you can expect to continue to encounter difficulties with traditional banks in the foreseeable future. This negativity is unfortunate but there is little room for change in an environment where governments offer little to no encouragement either.

As for your question above, would this be a query along the lines of establishing accounts with banks? Or is this specifically lending related? Lending will invariably require collateral. Accounts will depend on which country your business is registered in and which business model you operate. Banks will look into that for compliance purposes.

If you want flexibility, sign up for Estonia's E-Residency. Then register your company in Estonia. When that's done, you can quickly and painlessly open an account with Holvi. Holvi can open a business account for you. I'm sure they are crypto friendly.

I see. Accounts sellers are becoming more sophisticated. So it's a package of an account with staked addresses, complete with private keys, Skype and email accounts. This compounds the difficulty of verifying ownership. And if the new owner is clever, he will find ways to talk his way out of sensitive verification steps. That's just awesome. They always find ways to stay one step ahead.

There should be other ways to purge them such as force-locking accounts to a specific device or IP range and requiring a waiting period before the account is linked to another device or a new email address.

Amazing. 10k coins = about 90 million USD. I would think someone with that much money will hardly have the time to visit this forum and search for buyers. Unless you are struggling to satisfy compliance rules of exchanges.

You seem to be very international. A wide range of contact locations and languages to serve buyers far and wide.

To be honest, I too had the same suspicions but withheld them pending a done deal proving my assumptions wrong. But it seems no deal happened.

I suspect he wants to pay by letter of credit (LOC) or use an external non-forum escrow. And I also have a feeling he wants the coins sent to his wallet after providing proof of wire and not when the actual wired funds are credited to the seller's Singapore bank account.

That got me thinking.

Yes, I was wondering about that as well. Makes perfect sense for sellers to carefully document the shipping process in case a buyer turns out to be a clever scammer by invoking the goods-never-received defense. Or by saying rocks were in the box or switching the seller's delivered goods with fake ones.

Video-documenting the packing, dispatch and shipping process is an important part of the selling process. Scammers will always find ways to cheat.

As for the faulty-goods excuse, I'm not sure what precautions sellers can take. Tricky situation.

Yes, that's what you shills all say here. It's how shady exchanges run their business. By using this platform to manipulate people's minds, the naive especially. Make them think all these scam accusations and unresolved tickets are fake. Purpose? To convince more people to send more coins into your hot wallets. After all, it's easy to deposit coins but taking them out of your system is harder than climbing Mt Everest in a winter storm.

Sure, your withdrawals were always successful. You're a happy customer (so you say) and the whole withdrawal procedure was instantaneous. All these stories of their conned customers were imagined. Not a grain of truth in them.

How much were you paid to post that drivel? Was that the price of your conscience?

There is not one shred of legitimacy in an exchange which takes deposits faster than a lightning bolt but makes you wait light years to withdraw your coins.

Start by refusing to send coins to their hot wallets. That constant inflow of money is what gives them the arrogance and audacity to treat their customers this way.

The scale of fraud here is staggering. Worst of all, it has the facade of a legit operation which is why people continue to use their platform for trades. What's the use of profiting from a trade on this exchange if you can't withdraw those profits?

Stop using scam exchanges.

You are not only a necroposting spammer but someone who wastes other people’s time. Reading must be one of your weaknesses. Didn’t you read his terms:


I shouldn’t have removed that red tag.

You must be joking. They marked the withdrawal as completed 2 months ago and not a word from them about the whereabouts of the money? That’s really bad customer service at its worst form. I mean it’s $25k and not $10! The money must be somewhere. I suspect they neither processed nor wired it but they did debit your account. It can’t be an intermediary bank which won’t simply sit on unexplained funds for 2 months. And your bank cannot possibly have that money. Banks have stringent audit systems with mathematically correct account balancing mechanisms to prevent fraud and theft so you can rule out the banks. Coinbase has those funds and they are taking their own sweet time to resolve your open ticket.

An exchange to avoid.

What is the procedure for showing the bank account balance? I’m sure you understand it won’t be something along the lines of letting you access the account or providing bank guarantees in advance via the SWIFT messaging system.

Escrow from this list:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2439910.0

Correct?

You should provide a signed address evidencing access to and ownership of the bitcoins you intend to sell.