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1601  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Is this idea to counter lost bitcoins possible? on: December 22, 2012, 06:42:03 AM
First, let me say this: Freicoin looks like an interesting experiment.  It appears that Freicoin proponents have a comprehensive economic theory, which appears wrong to me, but I could be wrong myself.

I, for one, would LOVE to hear it.

http://freico.in/about/  Wink

I hate to be the one to say it, but that freicoin manifesto is a cesspit of keynesian gibberish and populist nonsense.  Calling it a "comprehensive economic theory" is to go zero for three.

Technically, not keynesian.  I'd say it's arguablely a variety of a monetarist theory, although not of the dominate set.
1602  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Bitcoin taking up 5.6gb on my computer on: December 22, 2012, 03:26:06 AM
just instal a copy of electrum in another folder, and transfer your coins to that address.  Once done, you can delete your overly large files.  Why did it get so large?
1603  Other / Off-topic / Re: [BREAKING] Quantum Computer Hits. BFL, bASIC etc all dead. End of BTC? on: December 20, 2012, 08:52:26 PM
MPOE-PR, if you reall believe that this is a true threat, then you should also believe that the exchange value of your bitcoins is going to tank soon.  I, however, don't believe that is a near term risk.  So I willing to offer you $5 per bitcoin, for each and every bitcoin your have.  I'd be willing to take out a bank loan just to be able to do so.  Let me know when you're ready.

Nothing but naysayers on this forum. Why all the negativity?


I'm not knocking your position, I just don't agree, and believe that I stand to profit if I'm correct.  Conversely, you stand to profit if I'm incorrect; as you'd sell higher than zero

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(Good pick on Ron Paul 2012 btw. I trust that wasn't another bank loan?)

I knew years ago that Ron Paul would not be president.  That has zero bearing on who I vote for, however.
1604  Other / Off-topic / Re: [BREAKING] Quantum Computer Hits. BFL, bASIC etc all dead. End of BTC? on: December 20, 2012, 07:52:02 PM
MPOE-PR, if you reall believe that this is a true threat, then you should also believe that the exchange value of your bitcoins is going to tank soon.  I, however, don't believe that is a near term risk.  So I willing to offer you $5 per bitcoin, for each and every bitcoin your have.  I'd be willing to take out a bank loan just to be able to do so.  Let me know when you're ready.
1605  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Myrkul Sells AnCap... on: December 20, 2012, 04:57:40 AM


Regardless if you have state governments or republic representation, it is still and government and they historically have required taxes for certain basic services. 

I'm really surprised that no one else has challenged this statement, because it's false.  The United States made it from 1776 to 1913 before any form of "required" tax was imposed.  I say this, because an excise fee isn't an involuntary tax; nor is an import license.  When libs & ancaps talk about taxes, we are talking about taxes upon income.  Tax upon wages.  If you don't own all of the fruits of your labor, then you don't own yourself.  Thus, you are a slave to the state.  Taxes upon the production & distribution of alcohol, although bad in their own way, can be avoided by simply not byuying alcohol, or making it yourself.  Property taxes are pretty bad, also, for similar reasons.  If you own your home, then the city has no claim upon it whether or not you pay your property taxes.
1606  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Myrkul Sells AnCap... on: December 20, 2012, 02:40:31 AM
I guess we would need to research a specific claim to give you that information.
I don't want a specific case. I want general terms. How does a property owner legitimately establish an original claim on a natural resource such as land?

Yeah, yeah... I think I can answer that one: via "homesteading" and all that. However, your appeal to 'legitimacy' seems hypocritical. Surely legitimacy is a community value, not an individualist value? By claiming that some methods (of e.g.: applying the label of "private property" to hitherto unspoiled lands) possess legitimacy, it sounds like you're rationalising your greed/territorial instincts. As an individualist, you don't really believe in legitimacy, since that is an appeal to an external authority such as a community with majority rule.

I knew I found the weakness earlier in this AnCap and this line of reasoning.  The burden of proof is on AnCap and not the other way around.   

They can't even understand that you are born "into" a world with set laws and customs that operated before they got their life/liberty. 

I'm not even an anarchist, but this line of reasoning is faulty on your part.  The early American colonists established ownership via homesteadong. The marked off a plot of and that no one seemed to have yet, and began to work it.  There was even a term for it at the time, 'corn rights'.  Only later did a state arise and recognize those existing claims.  A community is required, but a community does not a government make.  An ancap society is as likely to be communal as any other.
1607  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: zero transaction fee payments on: December 19, 2012, 09:55:19 PM
Can a transaction be included into the same block that some of it's input transactions are included?  Doesn't the protocol require that an txin dependency reference back to a prior block?
1608  Bitcoin / Electrum / Re: Electrum server discussion thread on: December 19, 2012, 09:39:31 PM
Okay, I've been trying out Electrum as a portable solution, but find I seem to be inhibited in many public places.  I presume due to firewalls that prohibit high number/non-standard ports.  Is there a public server that can fake being a standard webserver using port 80?  Can this even ben done?
1609  Economy / Lending / Re: Looking for small loan of 5 btc. on: December 19, 2012, 09:19:25 PM
Guys, if you're actually considering lending to someone who is already flagged as a scammer on the suspected scammer list, save yourself the trouble and just send me the coins. At least I'll say, "thank you."

Honestly, I didn't check the suspected scammer list first, but he did thank me.

Ah, well.  These things are going to happen every now and again.
1610  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Myrkul Sells AnCap... on: December 19, 2012, 12:49:36 AM
Aren't you being presumptuous with a vision of every individual in society being a "one man army" who can deal with everything?

I'm not because I never said that.

But you called it a fallacy. Why?



Because I never conceded that the assumption that the only way anyone could get protection is by hiring a security agency.

That would be a black & white fallacy, whether or not it's a vaild question or not.

Regardless, quote please, or it didn't happen. Wink

Well, I'm not that motivated at the moment, so I'm fine with it not happening.
1611  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Myrkul Sells AnCap... on: December 19, 2012, 12:42:56 AM
Aren't you being presumptuous with a vision of every individual in society being a "one man army" who can deal with everything?

I'm not because I never said that.

But you called it a fallacy. Why?



Because I never conceded that the assumption that the only way anyone could get protection is by hiring a security agency.

That would be a black & white fallacy, whether or not it's a vaild question or not.
1612  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Newbie restrictions on: December 19, 2012, 12:38:28 AM
in order to become a man, one must first post in the 169-page noob thread.

a baptism by fire.

And then you are forever subscribed to the newbie threads, as well.

That is, until you have enough posts that you can delete these first newbie posts.
1613  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Myrkul Sells AnCap... on: December 18, 2012, 10:11:51 PM
I can't really read what MoonShadow or firefop have said, because both are on my ignore list (the first one for openly admitting that he physically abuses his children, which I am firmly against, and the second one for verbal abuse against other people in this board).  If they have said anything in response to my comments, you'll forgive me for not responding -- I prefer not to interact with bad people.  I'm mentioning this because I think you all deserve to know who you're interacting with, and also because I don't want to look like I "didn't have any response" to their (usually not so clever) responses.

I wish that I, as a mod, could employ that ignore button.  Unfortunately, my responsibilities require that I actually see what you post.
1614  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Myrkul Sells AnCap... on: December 18, 2012, 10:09:21 PM
 I really don't have time to yell at clouds.

From my perspective, you seem to have way too much time to "yell at clouds"

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To share with you what I've seen in the past week: I've already had two forum mods remove posts where I point out "So-and-so is on my ignore list for <X negative or dysfunctional behavior>".  It would appear, from my perspective, that madness and verbal abuse is openly tolerated here, but pointing out those behaviors in people is not.

Madness is tolerated, while verbal abuse is not.  I do have a problem with your methods, Rudd-O, but you remain here because it's not my opinion that matters. 

Quote

 That is already a sign of a dysfunctional community, where the bullies run amok, and the people who are affected by the bullies are not permitted to weigh in on that.


You seem to have a distorted view as to whom is the victim and who is the bully in these events, Rudd-O.

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And, you know, I will probably be banned very soon. 

Sadly, that's almost certainly not going to happen.  While I have, personally, pointed out that you are a sophisticated troll in many threads; (and others have done the same) the consensus is that you are not a consistant enough of a troll to demand action from the admins.  (Mods do not have the power to ban unilaterally, excepting newbie accounts)  So if you don't mind, feel free to step it up a notch so I can toss you out, okay?
1615  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Myrkul Sells AnCap... on: December 18, 2012, 10:01:24 PM

People with minds broken beyond repair won't change their minds.  Either the world will change without them and they will not matter, or they will die off and be replaced with people who do have healthy minds and will change the world.

In any of those cases, trying to reason with a person who has been made mentally ill by societal abuse, is not going to work.


Proof enough that a true Ancap society is practically impossible, simply because the bootstrapping process from where we are to get there would require something very close to a worldwide destruction event to be plausible.  And assuming that the NAP is actually in application, the ancaps who would repopulate and educate this planet would be prohibited from effecting such an outcome.  If the event is natural, it is just as likely, perhaps more likely, that ancap social theories would simply die out with those who advocate them in the near term event.

So if you wish to take over the world, you're simply going to have to out-breed the rest; and ancaps aren't known for this skill.
1616  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: 89BTC for sale on: December 18, 2012, 09:41:54 PM
Would you consider a local, cash-in-person exchange?  What city do you live in?

Absolutely. I live in Joplin Missouri.

Sadly, not close enough for myself.
1617  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: 89BTC for sale on: December 18, 2012, 09:31:54 PM
Would you consider a local, cash-in-person exchange?  What city do you live in?
1618  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: bitinstant paycard on: December 18, 2012, 08:33:08 PM
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/embeddedform?formkey=dHZtVkZSVm92X0otR2gzb3UtckFVNVE6MQ

@Charlie
Are you saying you already sent some info out? I've never got any info to my "pre-order signup" email.


Thanks
1619  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Proof of Proof - an alternative to proof of ___ systems on: December 18, 2012, 08:31:22 PM


Anyway, we'll do just what you suggested - research new solutions and try them out in alts, so if it ever is broken we'll be ready with a fix.

Preparing in the event that an alternative to PoW were to be required, is both wise and rational.  If your methods work out in the alt-chains, and none of the concerns that I have materialize, I'll be one of the first to advocate altering the mainline protocol.
1620  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Delay BlockReward=0 Forever on: December 18, 2012, 07:45:21 PM

Now I would like to thank MoonShadow and Rudd-O for answering my question, and koin for his counterquestion which actually seemed interesting but that everyone ignored...if it really is true that...

If a bit-sifted address is developed and recognized by the protocol, the block reward would be able to continue to bit-shift the block reward for another 24+ bits.

...then I consider my question to be answered (although I would like to learn more about the "+" in "24+", and about how impossible it would be to use koin's idea).


While I can't verify my own statements, I was not ignoring your question.  It's just not one that can be easily answered by the vast majority of the forum membership.  Only the developers can respond to my claims, for or against, with any certainty; and most of them don't much participate in the forums.

But let me qualify that, while it's a bit more complicated than even I implied, that is basicly the solution posed by others in the past when this kind of issue has come up.  I'm fairly certain that it's all but decided that such an address type is to be developed, but it's just so far down the priority list (being decades away from need) that it's pretty much ignored.  For additional detail, let me describe how a transaction stores coin value into an address. 

Technnically, bitcoins don't actually exist, even as a digital construct.  This is a concept that tripped me up early on, but there is no text file, digital object, or portion of any transaction that we could point to and say "that's a bitcoin"; like we could open up a filesystem and highlight a file and say "that's an email" or "that's an MP3 song".  The concept of the coins themselves is entirely an abstract idea.  How it works is; the blockchain works like a huge, massively replicated, distributed LETS ledger containing only details of transactions from one or more addresses to another set of one or more addresses.  The varialbes that are used to contain the values that are transfered in these transactions are 64 bit integer values, which contain no decimal points.  As a matter of convention, Satoshi established that the clients should display those totaled values with a decimal point in the middle of those 64 bits (32 bits form the value shown to the left of the decimal point, 32 bits show the value to the right of the decimal point).  Said another way, the protocol has no concept of BTC's, but only deals in satoshis; but humans have a problem with dealing with numbers quite so huge, and this is why teh clients display the totaled values the way that they do, resulting in the (technically false) meme that there will only 21 million currency units.  However you choose to look at it, the bits of those interger variables with the greatest values will never be used, because the entire monetary base can be stored into a single 64 bit integer using only 48 bits, as the actuall 21 M BTC in binary would look like this...
(111,011,101,011,111,000,001,011,010,000,001,110,100,000,000,000,000)

So there are 16 bits (or so) to the big end available to place a binary token, that would tell the clients & miners that this address value isn't in the standard "whole" satoshis, but instead expressed as a more fine value, say with a decimal point in the middle (of the 48 bits in use) thus permitting the protocol to advance the coinbase division to another 24 bits of fractional satoshi units.
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