Quite a few people reported having done so. That will only get you a refund.
I think some people want to take it a step further and punish BFL via the courts.

Simple solution. Don't post in the thread titled "BF Labs Inc. WILL process ALL backlogs by September 30, 2013!" where this whole conversation got started. If you only want to talk about orders before April 5th...

New orders would not change the fact that they cleared their backlog, it would just create a second backlog. If at any time they shipped all outstanding orders, the backlog is cleared. Plus they would ship your order Sept. 30 if they had cleared their backlog. They would actually have inventory of assembled units. They could have same day turnaround just as real companies such as Newegg.com. 

A TEU is just a unit of shipping. Also, if you have 300 boxes, you need to put them on pallets otherwise they would roll around inside the truck and they couldn't efficiently move them around. The point is, they would need a large truck instead of the normal little USPS trucks you see arriving in the pics. Maybe they only took pictures on small shipping days. However, they were bragging about how big the piles were. Also, the guy who posted the pics left the company and there haven't been any pictures posted since.

Not my fault BFL uses USPS. Jalapenos are the smallest boxes. Obviously, 300 singles would take up more space and require even more space in trucks.

My point was to use how fast BFL claims they can ship to demonstrate we can estimate the size of their backlog.

I have acknowledged everything almost you have posted (some of the more vapid stuff I just reply with a PSA).
It seems that you are just here to derail threads for your lord and master Inaba. Exhibit A, you didn't even post this response in the thread it belongs in:
BF Labs Inc. WILL process ALL backlogs by September 30, 2013!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=268055.0

Did you get lost? Derailing so many threads you can't keep track anymore?

I have to wonder about how much time BFL_Josh/Inaba is spending in this thread. Is he trying to bury something? Is he afraid of being sued?
I also notice BFL_Josh/Inaba is still dodging this statement he made. I am sure his lawyers told him never to speak of it again.


Of course, that "Jalapeno" could not have existed (nor the other devices) because as we found out later the chips had not reached BFL from the fab until Feb 2013. When they did, there were major issues with heat and power and their first board design did not work. The issues were so serious in fact that they could not use the original Jalapeno form factor. They had to put them in the singles cases.

That is the material misstatement that BFL made about the status of their product. Anyone who wants to demonstrate civil fraud charges can add that statement to their evidence list.

And the thread is back on track.

Pre-orders are the life blood of BFL. If they don't derail threads, they run the risk of word getting out.

If you have ordered from ButterFly Labs and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).
First ask ButterFly Labs for a refund, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. Multiple customers have already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.
If you ordered via Bitcoin or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC at  http://www.ftc.gov/complaint and they will advocate for you with ButterFly Labs to get your refund. You can also contact the office of the Kansas Attorney General and inform them that you have had your money taken with no product delivered for months, just more promises.
You can also do a paper filing with the DA here: http://da.jocogov.org/complaint-forms

There are also several threads on how to get a refund from ButterFly Labs, here are two:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=266945.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=272585.0

Oh look, you are spreading lies again. Quoted for posterity.
There were 97 Avalon chip batches of 10,000 chips each that was posted in a spreadsheet. That is roughly 300TH. The official story is:
While we have send out some chip orders, there is currently ~200k chips stuck in custom right at this moment for about 2 weeks now, this matter is very painful for us and our customers.
That is only 22% of their chip orderbook. They were still shipping out chip orders as of 8/19. Orders destined for addresses inside China would not require customs, so those chips have had 1.5 months to get onto boards and into the hash rate.

People like to check back to see if predictions and speculations held true.

Ok, you finally answered the questions. See how easy that was, now we can discuss your answers. Next time, don't give 47 posts of evading the questions and you won't get a broken record.

The backlog includes every order up to the current minute.
backlog: 1. an accumulation of something, esp. uncompleted work or matters that need to be dealt with.
BFL said they could clear the backlog so they could then ship units to order.
If you want to change the rules, just change it so pre-orders were only orders before October 12th 2012. That way you are more certain to win.

It looks like you are saying you really have no idea how many orders BFL has. Good, we can stop talking about that purile nonsense of 70,000 orders of BFL backlog.

The closer we get to Sept 30th, the more we know about the size of BFL's backlog. BFL's cap on production per day is 300 units (if you believe them). There are 26 work days between now and Sept 30th. That says they can ship a maximum of 7800 devices between now and then. Using the 1.5 devices per order average from http://bfl.ptz.ro/ that says on average at their highest production rate for 26 days the ceiling on filled orders is 5200. They could work weekends too. That would add another 2400 devices which would increase their fulfillment to 6800 orders. That is pretty much the ceiling of what they can accomplish.

Reality is going to be a good deal lower than 300 units a day. There is no evidence that they have ever done 300 units a day. In fact when we have seen pictures of  stacks of BFL boxes going into USPS trucks, there has never been more than 60 boxes. Also, the size of the USPS trucks (also visible in the pics) that show up couldn't fit more than 60 boxes inside. You would need a 1 TEU container to hold 300 boxes, so those should have been showing up daily. Each USPS box has roughly 1.5 to 2 cubic feet of space in it. 1 standard TEU has 1,360 cubic feet in it. So they would need 300 to 450 cubic feet and they would need to be on shipping pallets (so they don't jumble around and break). That would probably fit in 1 TEU, but definitely not in the small size trucks.

Even if I give them the benefit of the doubt and say that BFL could ship 150 units a day for the next 34 days straight, that means they will fill roughly 3400 orders. If that makes up 80% of their order book (20% already shipped). Then there were roughly 4200 orders total to begin with (8400 if we use the less likely 300 units a day). That is the ballbark we are dealing with if BFL can actually ship their backlog by Sept 30th.

Of course, if they weasel out of that and there are still thousands of orders in a backlog after Sept 30, I won't be surprised.

Which chips?

His lawyers muzzled him. Because of threads like this one. He will never clear that up.
Also, we now know that you are capable of the same sort of behavior that Josh is.

I sure hope the mods implement something so that the Bitcoin community can purge itself of these scams and their supporters.

We have been asking this question for 9 months. If there were a simple answer, Josh would have given it 9 months ago.
He refuses to even discuss it. Not once in 9 months. He will spend hours insulting his customers, but won't spend 15 seconds to clear up a valid question?

What you should be discussing is why BFL claimed they were getting FCC certification from a lab that they had sent functional units to.

Notice how hard Inaba and PuppetCo are attempting to derail this thread.
They are really worried.
Someone should make a moderated thread for this subject and just delete the BFL derailments.

No, but BFL has been giving new schedules and then failing to meet them for months on end now. Also, they are insulting and dismissive of any and all complaints. Those are two very serious red flags for scams, so many people think BFL is a scam.

The 100TH/s mining pool delay was due to their boards that they designed having issues, not Bitfury chips having issues. There are several deployments of Bitfury that are successful.
Avalon has failed to get their chips into the hands of developers of a lot of the English speaking DIY. There have been photos of Avalon chip batches arriving from multiple sources but there is no getting around the fact that a large chunk of DIY projects are ruined by the delay. It is impossible to know the cause of the delay at this time, but eventually more evidence will come to light and then we can start speculating. Right now, all that I am aware of is the chips supposedly left Yifu's hands but never arrived in the customers.

I notice BFL_Josh/Inaba is still dodging this statement he made. I am sure his lawyers told him never to speak of it again.


Of course, that "Jalapeno" could not have existed (nor the other devices) because as we found out later the chips had not reached BFL from the fab until Feb 2013. When they did, there were major issues with heat and power and their first board design did not work. The issues were so serious in fact that they could not use the original Jalapeno form factor. They had to put them in the singles cases.

That is the material misstatement that BFL made about the status of their product. Anyone who wants to demonstrate civil fraud charges can add that statement to their evidence list 

I know it is a fast and dirty estimate. I have been demonstrating that either the estimate is not accurate or BFL is lying about their ability to clear the backlog by Sept. 30th. Nothing in my posts is intentional troll bait. Until you either say that the 7 PH/s estimate is not accurate, or say that it is accurate but BFL can't ship we cannot move on  Since you cannot seem to stay on this subject, lets make 3 simple questions for you to answer:

Were there 7PH/s of BFL orders in your estimation?
Were there 70,000 orders in your estimation?
Were there 100,000 devices ordered in your estimation?

Mining equipment shouldn't need to be certified in my opinion. The BFL fanbois (who were not around for the early seasons of the BFL drama) don't realize that Josh ridiculed the other ASIC manufacturers for not getting FCC certs and then claimed that BFL was in the process of getting theirs:


Of course, that "Jalapeno" could not have existed (nor the other devices) because as we found out later the chips had not reached BFL from the fab until Feb 2013. When they did, there were major issues with heat and power and their first board design did not work. The issues were so serious in fact that they could not use the original Jalapeno form factor. They had to put them in the singles cases.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status.html
Feb 8th 2013 - Chips have shipped from the fab and are on their way to the US. They are expected to arrive early next week (Monday or Tuesday), but since the bumping facility won't be ready until the 14th as the earliest, it isn't quite as critical.

The chips were still in wafer form 3 months after Josh said they had completed units sent to a lab for FCC certification. So there was no way they could have sent devices to a lab for testing, there were no chips to put in them. That is the material misstatement that BFL made about the status of their product. Anyone who wants to demonstrate civil fraud charges can add that statement to their evidence list 

Oh good. Josh is linking documents from the FCC.
Please link the ones that correspond to this statement you made in November of 2012:

But you did when you said 70,000 orders from the http://bfl.ptz.ro/ dataset. You said there were 70,000 orders. That dataset has roughly 1.5 devices per order. Thus, roughly 100,000 devices. Therefore, if you want to use that data set and you want to declare that there are 70,000 orders then you have to accept that there are roughly 100,000 devices in those ordres. Elementary math.

Right. So between 0 and 7 PH/s were canceled.

We argued about it. You defended it religiously until the math became so obvious that you could not longer deny with a straight face. Then you started deleting the math from your posts like that would somehow make it disappear. Now you have started backpedaling. Just a few posts ago, you reaffirmed your support for a 7PH/s backlog. I take it now that you are disavowing that estimate? Or maybe you would just like to say that you have no idea what the size of BFL's order book is?

You may think math is childish, but unfortunately it underpins everything about bitcoin. So if you want to hang out here you better learn not to make simple math mistakes or you will be ridiculed for it.

I have been doing math. Math which shows that either your 7PH/s orderbook stance is wrong, or BFL can't ship by the end of Sept 30th. Both cannot be true, because by BFL's own admission they can only ship maximum of 300 units a day.

So you take the data you have from http://bfl.ptz.ro/. You don't like it so you double it. That is not far enough from 80TH/s (which was the last number calculated for BFL shipments using a method that made sense), so you want to triple it. You feel like you might be pushing things so you decide not to quadruple it. Nice method. Very MIT chic.

After we put to bed the 7 Peta/Hash per second BFL order book prediction you made. We can focus on adding up the hash rate of the other ASIC players and seeing what is left. Until you can agree to the old math or point out where it is flawed, it is pointless to move on. You will just continue to claim 2+2=5 and play fast and loose about your own statements (which I will have to continue to post here to "refresh" your memory).

Good point. They do look cool. I would buy at 0.20 BTC.

The FCC claim is relevant to this thread because it is a material misrepresentation about the state of the product from BFL.
That is a key ingredient to proving fraud in a civil case.