Has anyone had any luck on Antpool with BTM, yet? I have emailed them several times (even with FB messenger)...crickets.
I dont think they work on weekends. Wait Monday. I'm on the sidelines..I did not get a unit...but NO ONE is mining, because of NO pools (and weekend) really? or is it just Antpool? If so, I hope you guys ROI on these...I just could not 'man up', being Bitmain and all... (I may be out of anything big anymore, miner wise, and sit on my BTC and Altcoin hoard....and maybe, maybe, a couple miners in the basement... probably for the best...I liked being a 'hobby' miner.....mostly the last 1/2 year I feel like I'm just being 'played' by Bitmain...getting old...) But really, I hope it works out on the B3....we need a WIN of any ASIC flavor for the little guy....IMHO... I hope to ROI asap. Need something after paying 3k for 2 L3s haha. Slightly a little worried on ROI because there are 2 batches out instead of 1. The A3 had a far longer gap between batches, yes? Mine isnt even delivered yet. Pray all goes well. Bytom price fell a little though |
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I dont get what u mean by out of touch. Innovation occurs. Things change. Cant do much about it.
GPU is the past. Horses were used in the past. Then, cars came. The problem with mining is that it is getting harder to breakeven these days.
I understand your pain. Buyers gotta hope no competitor comes up with a similar asic.
I won't have pain. I broke even on my gpus long ago. Don't worry about me. He is out of touch of touch related to... 1 - What shifting gpus off of ETH will do to other crypto. He has stated he doesn't think asic represents a significant portion of the network. 2 - If you have read about how they plan on implementing ETH PoS... On a scale of decentralization to centralization you have.... Decentralization---CPUs----GPUs----Asics----ETH PoS---Centralization Bitcoin litecoin dash etc are all mined via asics and they are decentralized fine, without issues. GPUs are unfortunately the past. U should sell them. |
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Has anyone had any luck on Antpool with BTM, yet? I have emailed them several times (even with FB messenger)...crickets.
I dont think they work on weekends. Wait Monday. |
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My point about about Asics not killing GPU mining and Vitalik "Super out of touch" Buterin killing GPU mining is this...
I acknowledge I might have some math errors and not all cards mining ETH are RX 570/580 cards and I am simplifying things a bit. But I don't think my logic is flawed. I REALLY hope it is. So please... argue...
ETH currently has 266,000 GH. So that is equivalent of 8,866,666 RX 570/580 cards. Imagine if they went PoS. The current XMR network (500 MH or so) has about the what would equal 62,500 570/580 cards on it. So if let's say only 200,000 of those ETH cards when to XMR... XMR would be much less profitable to mine and you would still have 8,666,666 cards to still spread over other coins...
Continue this exercise with the next coin... and the next... and the next...
I realize that some miners will stay on ETH as the block reward will still be 0.6 ETH... so 20%... 1,773,333 570/580 cards.
I dont get what u mean by out of touch. Innovation occurs. Things change. Cant do much about it. GPU is the past. Horses were used in the past. Then, cars came. The problem with mining is that it is getting harder to breakeven these days. I understand your pain. Buyers gotta hope no competitor comes up with a similar asic. |
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That doesn't make sense. Both are on 28nm right? makes sense if as most of us suspect the L3++ is just an 'already overclocked' L3+..then all the problems above and flakiness makes perfect sense....another Bitmain gimmick that has likely come to light  Just my view...but when we tried overclocking...seems to be the same symptoms...so went back to L3+ baseline [/quote] So, it is just marketing lol. |
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Same. Fully hashing, no rewards reporting.
Also this miner runs damn cold in comparison to every other machine they have ever made.
Still they put jet engine fans on the thing. Completely unnecessary, could be a lot quieter.
Thats probably because this thing isnt meant to run as hot as an L3 or S9. An L3 has to run cooler than an S9. This has to run even cooler than an L3. They wont put strong fans for no reason. S9 fans are stronger than an L3. |
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Despite my skepticism and my longer than expected engagement in this thread, I do hope it works out for u guys and perhaps I am wrong. Good luck
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Well, u should have referenced to that rather than writing it straight.
Lets see this project gets done anyways.
When you make a mistake, it is best to apologize and move on, instead of being on a mission to win an argument. I do apologize when I make a mistake. But u cant expect anyone to know that u were referring to someone else when u dont state it. It could have been your own claims. No one can read your mind. Think about it. No need to drag this on, please do read the OP's post and make up your own mind. Some of us really want these claims to be true, but only time will tell. Ok. I guess time will tell if I am right or wrong when the show gets on the road. Good luck to the brave souls. Cross fingers* |
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Well, u should have referenced to that rather than writing it straight.
Lets see this project gets done anyways.
When you make a mistake, it is best to apologize and move on, instead of being on a mission to win an argument. I do apologize when I make a mistake. But u cant expect anyone to know that u were referring to someone else when u dont state it. It could have been your own claims. No one can read your mind. Think about it. |
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It went up in price because litecoin went up in price, not because of the extra + in the name lol.
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lol, wat u just said in the quote. A system that costs less and is 5x more efficient than a GPU. Lets see how u make a system that cost less when u buy at the retail level, among other things.
Ok, enough arguing and plucking numbers from the sky. How fast can u get the show on the road?
What is the lol about? Show me where I claimed that I can develop such a system. And please, don't try to change the subject. @Sandal_Hat
I am not sure what you are arguing about, it seems very odd.
You have two systems, one costs less and it’s 5x more efficient than the other, and they both do the same amount of work. So going with the system that is cheaper to buy and operate doesn’t make sense you say. Can you please tell me again why miners freak-out if they think an ASIC has been developed to mine their coin?
I will go back to work and take my crazy pills, and welcome to The Twilight Zone.
I am saying it makes no financial sense. The major GPU coins already have asics, with ETH being the biggest. And those coins that have no asic on it will have asics on it before the FPGA will come close to ever breaking even.
And everytime an asic takes over an alternate coin, all the GPUs and FPGAs that were mining that coin will go to a non-asic coin. That means the remaining non-asic coins will have difficulty skyrocket and guess wat, that means your GPUs and FPGAs mining make less money. Everytime a new asic comes out, the FPGAs make less money. So, there is no niche. There is a limited amount to be earned from mining u see. If the asics keep appearing to take some of it, the switchers (FPGAs/GPUs) will have less and less.
Why not u calculate how much it would cost to make an FPGA that can do the equivalent of mining 504mh like the L3+ or 14TH like the S9.
Run your numbers and see the gap. While I dont have the numbers, I dont think it can work.
Anyways, good luck in your endeavors. Maybe I am wrong.
Just my 2 cents
While your point of view is true in general, there are a couple of exceptions: mainly space and power constraints. Let’s be very specific in our comparison to avoid meaningless comparisons, XCVU9P ($4,000 FPGA) vs GTX 1080 Ti ($800 GPU). Now let’s take the Phi1612 algorithm and give the FPGA a more realistic 5x performance advantage against the GPU at a power consumption rate of 150 watts (0.150 kWh). I would rather run a 100 FPGA farm (17.5 kWh) vs a 500 GPU farm (87.5 kWh) any day and here’s why. Lower overall costs if you believe the 5x advantage ascribed to the FPGA.4x FPGAs and components approx. ($16K + $1.2K) in server chassis and add 100 watts for overhead. 4x GPUs and components approx. ($3.2K + $0.65K) in frame and add 100 watts for overhead. $430K 100 FPGA farm vs $481.25K 500 GPU farm. Can you at least agree that this makes financial sense? Really? Pretending? Your own words, bolded. Post 266. Above quote lol. Just do something like it will do. It wont be anywhere cheaper lol. Anyways, no more argument. Do update your FPGA setup when u do rather than talk nonsense. Or just dont bother because I dont believe u can do any of it lol The claim was made by the OP that he has one running at 20x the efficiency, and I said it is most likely 5x since I haven’t seen any evidence of his work. How does that translate to me making the claim? Please do show me and stop making up stuff. Well, u should have referenced to that rather than writing it straight. I didnt know. Lets see this project gets done anyways. |
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No, it is u that dont get it. U ARE COMPETING with asics because asics will push difficulty to the coins u are mining. Profit margins for mining are thin these days. It is abit higher right now compared to 1-2 months ago due to recent price spike but that will correct soon as more hashrate enters market. U can always have an alt coin to mine but it is gonna make low or negative returns for u because of difficulty increase, which are pushed by asics from other coins.
If GPU miners are pushed from ETH to another coin that is FPGA-mineable then: 1) diff goes up but an FPGA is still more profitable than a GPU; 2) diff goes way up, a GPU is not profitable anymore, still profitable for an FPGA; There are many other variables in this and many other reasons why this might or might not work, but what you're saying doesn't really make much sense. I think you're misunderstanding how difficulty adjustment works. It will go down if profitability turns negative. No because u can buy an FPGA, so can everyone else. FPGA is the new GPU. It just costs money which everyone has. Mining is easy, everyone can do it. U make such an FPGA first. U are first and it has 6 months break even. Really quickly, everyone else will have an FPGA and break even will go to 11-15 months or so, the rough average. See post 268 for a simpler illustration. I leave that as the last explanation of the conceptual flaw. How fast can u start buying the items and do this. Lets see this go forward yes. I don't even know what you're talking about or how it relates to what I posted. "Everyone" is not going to have FPGAs overnight, the whole thing is still in its infancy (scale-wise; I'm sure some smart folks have been mining with FPGAs for a while). GPU mining ramp-up for big farms took months even during the massive ETH boom, and that was with an off-the-shelf product available in huge quantities. Break-even of 15 months is great for those who don't exhibit the ASIC-induced attention span of a toddler. I still have some GPUs I bought in 2015. Paid off many times over. I don't have ASICs from 2015. Can you guess why? Everyone will rush for FPGAs, overnight or not doesnt matter. It will be a mad rush for gold, as normal with all new asics these days. Mining equipment will be sold out as per normal in recent rushes. The breakeven will quickly go to normal range of 11-15 months then. This isnt like in past years where ETH made huge margins because people few people know wat mining is. Post 268 clearly shows how stupid is it to compete against asic that will keep stealing the major coins u mine. Major conceptual flaw. U wont break even in 15 months lol. It doesnt matter if u have gpus or asics since 2015. Everyone who has any coins or mining then has made money. This is a different time. This FPGA pops up tomorow, and in the next few days, tons of it will be created/sold. I think u already understood it anyways from the way u are replying. How about u go buy those FPGAs then? How fast can u get it up and running? |
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lol, wat u just said in the quote. A system that costs less and is 5x more efficient than a GPU. Lets see how u make a system that cost less when u buy at the retail level, among other things.
Ok, enough arguing and plucking numbers from the sky. How fast can u get the show on the road?
What is the lol about? Show me where I claimed that I can develop such a system. And please, don't try to change the subject. @Sandal_Hat
I am not sure what you are arguing about, it seems very odd.
You have two systems, one costs less and it’s 5x more efficient than the other, and they both do the same amount of work. So going with the system that is cheaper to buy and operate doesn’t make sense you say. Can you please tell me again why miners freak-out if they think an ASIC has been developed to mine their coin?
I will go back to work and take my crazy pills, and welcome to The Twilight Zone.
I am saying it makes no financial sense. The major GPU coins already have asics, with ETH being the biggest. And those coins that have no asic on it will have asics on it before the FPGA will come close to ever breaking even.
And everytime an asic takes over an alternate coin, all the GPUs and FPGAs that were mining that coin will go to a non-asic coin. That means the remaining non-asic coins will have difficulty skyrocket and guess wat, that means your GPUs and FPGAs mining make less money. Everytime a new asic comes out, the FPGAs make less money. So, there is no niche. There is a limited amount to be earned from mining u see. If the asics keep appearing to take some of it, the switchers (FPGAs/GPUs) will have less and less.
Why not u calculate how much it would cost to make an FPGA that can do the equivalent of mining 504mh like the L3+ or 14TH like the S9.
Run your numbers and see the gap. While I dont have the numbers, I dont think it can work.
Anyways, good luck in your endeavors. Maybe I am wrong.
Just my 2 cents
While your point of view is true in general, there are a couple of exceptions: mainly space and power constraints. Let’s be very specific in our comparison to avoid meaningless comparisons, XCVU9P ($4,000 FPGA) vs GTX 1080 Ti ($800 GPU). Now let’s take the Phi1612 algorithm and give the FPGA a more realistic 5x performance advantage against the GPU at a power consumption rate of 150 watts (0.150 kWh). I would rather run a 100 FPGA farm (17.5 kWh) vs a 500 GPU farm (87.5 kWh) any day and here’s why. Lower overall costs if you believe the 5x advantage ascribed to the FPGA.4x FPGAs and components approx. ($16K + $1.2K) in server chassis and add 100 watts for overhead. 4x GPUs and components approx. ($3.2K + $0.65K) in frame and add 100 watts for overhead. $430K 100 FPGA farm vs $481.25K 500 GPU farm. Can you at least agree that this makes financial sense? Really? Pretending? Your own words, bolded. Post 266. Above quote lol. Just do something like it will do. It wont be anywhere cheaper lol. Anyways, no more argument. Do update your FPGA setup when u do rather than talk nonsense. Or just dont bother because I dont believe u can do any of it lol |
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No, it is u that dont get it. U ARE COMPETING with asics because asics will push difficulty to the coins u are mining. Profit margins for mining are thin these days. It is abit higher right now compared to 1-2 months ago due to recent price spike but that will correct soon as more hashrate enters market. U can always have an alt coin to mine but it is gonna make low or negative returns for u because of difficulty increase, which are pushed by asics from other coins.
If GPU miners are pushed from ETH to another coin that is FPGA-mineable then: 1) diff goes up but an FPGA is still more profitable than a GPU; 2) diff goes way up, a GPU is not profitable anymore, still profitable for an FPGA; There are many other variables in this and many other reasons why this might or might not work, but what you're saying doesn't really make much sense. I think you're misunderstanding how difficulty adjustment works. It will go down if profitability turns negative. No because u can buy an FPGA, so can everyone else. FPGA is the new GPU. It just costs money which everyone has. Mining is easy, everyone can do it. U make such an FPGA first. U are first and it has 6 months break even. Really quickly, everyone else will have an FPGA and break even will go to 11-15 months or so, the rough average. See post 268 for a simpler illustration. I leave that as the last explanation of the conceptual flaw. How fast can u start buying the items and do this. Lets see this go forward yes. |
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@Sandal_Hat
I am not sure what you are arguing about, it seems very odd.
You have two systems, one costs less and it’s 5x more efficient than the other, and they both do the same amount of work. So going with the system that is cheaper to buy and operate doesn’t make sense you say. Can you please tell me again why miners freak-out if they think an ASIC has been developed to mine their coin?
I will go back to work and take my crazy pills, and welcome to The Twilight Zone.
lol, u dont have a 5x more efficient system. U just need 2x more efficient system on ethereum and u will make millions. U are just plucking things out of thin air lol WTF? Wat u mean by wtf? U make baseless claims. U claim u can make an FPGA that is 5x more efficient than a GPU. For ETH, the asic is only a little bit more efficient than GPU but cheaper to produce. If u can make an ETH miner that is just 2x more efficient than GPU, u would be super rich . I believe u cant do that and your cost of producing any FPGA will be sky high, among other things. Well, billionaire asic manufacturers couldnt do this. If u can, then pls, go ahead and do it How fast can u try get this up and going. 2-3 weeks? Please do show me where I have made baseless claims, and don't start making stuff up. lol, wat u just said in the quote. A system that costs less and is 5x more efficient than a GPU. Lets see how u make a system that cost less when u buy at the retail level, among other things. Ok, enough arguing and plucking numbers from the sky. How fast can u get the show on the road? |
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@Sandal_Hat
I am not sure what you are arguing about, it seems very odd.
You have two systems, one costs less and it’s 5x more efficient than the other, and they both do the same amount of work. So going with the system that is cheaper to buy and operate doesn’t make sense you say. Can you please tell me again why miners freak-out if they think an ASIC has been developed to mine their coin?
I will go back to work and take my crazy pills, and welcome to The Twilight Zone.
lol, u dont have a 5x more efficient system. U just need 2x more efficient system on ethereum and u will make millions. U are just plucking things out of thin air lol WTF? Wat u mean by wtf? U make baseless claims. U claim u can make an FPGA that is 5x more efficient than a GPU. For ETH, the asic is only a little bit more efficient than GPU but cheaper to produce. And this is after god knows how much spent on research. If u can make an ETH miner that is just 2x more efficient than GPU, u would be super rich . I believe u cant do that and your cost of producing any FPGA will be sky high, among other things. If anyone can find some quirk in an algo to mine it 5x better, it will be expensive anyways. Not cheap to be sold to others. It will probably take some time to get it done as well. Baikal does fpga and they seem to take time to get things done also. Well, billionaire asic manufacturers couldnt do this. If u can, then pls, go ahead and do it How fast can u try get this project up and going. 2-3 weeks? |
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No, it is u that dont get it. U ARE COMPETING with asics because asics will push difficulty to the coins u are mining. Profit margins for mining are thin these days. It is abit higher right now compared to 1-2 months ago due to recent price spike but that will correct soon as more hashrate enters market. U can always have an alt coin to mine but it is gonna make low or negative returns for u because of difficulty increase, which are pushed by asics from other coins. U know wat. U just wait a few months. The antminer Z9 mini will push gpu miners out of zec and bitcoingold,etc. Those 2 are billion dollar coins. Lets see where those zec/btcgold gpu miners point their GPUs to. All other coins difficulty will go up. And the day a stronger ETH miner appears or the E3 gets sold cheaper, u will see a 78 billion gpu coin aka ETH get heavily flooded by asics. That will be the day u rue not thinking ahead. Your fpga will still work then and have coins to mine, but with very low profit or possibly negative profit. Not sure wat your numbers will be but I dont believe u will be able to get any numbers on the fpga that make sense. Anyways, do write your fpga experiment here perhaps Asics do not push difficulty on the coins on which there are no asic. Asics drive away GPU on coin that can be mined by Asic. Difficulty is pushed by the additional GPU leaving the Asic mined coin. As a result you are competing with GPU, not asics. You are just trying to do word play and circumvolated logic. Eventualy, you could say that you are competing with Asic by proxy but not directly. Still, on the coin you are mining, you are competing with GPUs. With your FPGA, you are more profitable than GPUs. This is a quote from someone else's message. I don't like it. Yep, is mine. Not sure how this occured at post 269 onwards. Not my post. I fixed mine somewhat to remove your name. Anyways I leave it at that. And looking forward to seeing the experiment by some of u brave folks. |
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@Sandal_Hat
I am not sure what you are arguing about, it seems very odd.
You have two systems, one costs less and it’s 5x more efficient than the other, and they both do the same amount of work. So going with the system that is cheaper to buy and operate doesn’t make sense you say. Can you please tell me again why miners freak-out if they think an ASIC has been developed to mine their coin?
I will go back to work and take my crazy pills, and welcome to The Twilight Zone.
lol, u dont have a 5x more efficient system. U just need 2x more efficient system on ethereum and u will make millions. U are just plucking things out of thin air lol |
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No, it is u that dont get it. U ARE COMPETING with asics because asics will push difficulty to the coins u are mining. Profit margins for mining are thin these days. It is abit higher right now compared to 1-2 months ago due to recent price spike but that will correct soon as more hashrate enters market. U can always have an alt coin to mine but it is gonna make low or negative returns for u because of difficulty increase, which are pushed by asics from other coins. U know wat. U just wait a few months. The antminer Z9 mini will push gpu miners out of zec and bitcoingold,etc. Those 2 are billion dollar coins. Lets see where those zec/btcgold gpu miners point their GPUs to. All other coins difficulty will go up. And the day a stronger ETH miner appears or the E3 gets sold cheaper, u will see a 78 billion gpu coin aka ETH get heavily flooded by asics. That will be the day u rue not thinking ahead. Your fpga will still work then and have coins to mine, but with very low profit or possibly negative profit. Not sure wat your numbers will be but I dont believe u will be able to get any numbers on the fpga that make sense. Anyways, do write your fpga experiment here perhaps Asics do not push difficulty on the coins on which there are no asic. Asics drive away GPU on coin that can be mined by Asic. Difficulty is pushed by the additional GPU leaving the Asic mined coin. As a result you are competing with GPU, not asics. You are just trying to do word play and circumvolated logic. Eventualy, you could say that you are competing with Asic by proxy but not directly. [/quote] Read post 268. That is one of the points. I dont wanna repeat the others points lol. I dont even know wat u mean by word play. SIA gpu miners got kicked out of SIA when asics appear and soon zec/btcgold will be the same. It is a losing battle. I guess it may take the E3 to be sold cheap to convince some of u. It has to occur first I guess. |
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Look, it doesnt make sense. It will cost too much more, have very little to mine and be at the whim of the antminer E3 pricing basically lol.
Most important question. WHY just WHY do u wanna make an FPGA when one asic already controls 64% of GPU mining? A few asics control most of the GPU mining already.
And this FPGA u are doing is just another GPU. Why? Because anyone can do it. U make a slightly stronger GPU known as FPGA. All u need is abit of dumb money going in there and u make no profits due to high difficulty.
In my opinion, interest to FPGA can be short-term, when you need to mine a certain number of coins before the release of ASIC. Like a Groestl, Nist5 and others. But a more fundamental interest may be to offer a useful proof of work function which can also be ASIC-resistant. By setting new standards for the usefulness of the POW function, we will strengthen mining on FPGA in the long term. In the end, someone uses mega-FPGA cards in real life. For what? Amazon AWS earns with them, why not do the same? Summary. FPGA is not workable when one asic controls 64% of GPU mining market. Lets say u use FPGAs and they now control 20% of remaining market via 8 algos. One asic will appear and easily cut it to 15%. They will take the major coin away again... Your FPGA is basically an antminer S7 and when new asic appears, it gets "downgraded" to be an S5. More FPGAs/GPUs will also join in the crowd as u earn less. U may not even be able to be profitable once it gets downgraded to S5. Do note that difficulty increase does not lower profit, it lowers REVENUE. So, u may go negative on mining once it "downgrades to an S5". I strongly doubt it will work because the asics are far cheaper and too much more efficient and majority of the market is centered around a few big algos. This is not yet including the biggest problem which the E3 that can mine eth, which controls 64% of the GPU. It can keep pushing more GPU mining power to the coins u are mining. No point I keep repeating. I find it conceptually just a horrible idea. Hope to see transparency in numbers and figures to brave souls those who attempt this project. Good luck people I think you don't get it. FPGA are not here to compete with ASIC !!! On ASIC controlled coin, only ASICs can rule. FPGA are here to compete with GPU without the power consumption of the GPU and without the limitation of the ASIC. My 24*1070Ti rig consumes around 3000w. For the same price i can get 2FPGA that will consume 300w and have more than twice the performance. If the example on RVN stands, i would have 600Mh vs 288Mh for 1/10th of the power consumption. At the current rate the revenue difference is 71$ vs 163$. Over a year this is massive and you dont really have to convert your coin to fiat because the electricity cost can absolutely be paid ( 2600$ vs 262$) ================ A simpler illustration. ================ So, after a few weeks, it takes off, everyone buys a FPGA, just like how they buy a GPU. Difficulty rises. Breakeven is at around 11-15 months or so. So,the FPGA mines 10 different non-asic coins. Revenue - electricity cost = profits 255 - 104 = 151 USD profits (I am using current S9 numbers at 10cents electricity as rough example which are generous numbers considering recent btc price spike lol) With this u calculate your break even at 13 months, for example. 13 months is generous here lol. ----------------------------------------------- But an asic appears to take over the biggest coin. The biggest coin was 25% of all mining revenue. So now, u can mine 9 non-asic coins only. Revenue is now 255 x 0.75 = 191 USD (Difficulty increases cause 25% of mining revenue to be gone) 191 - 104 = 87 dollars (This is your new profit) See the problem? Your breakeven is now 26 months All FPGA in that coin that got taken over by asic moves to the other coins. One more of this occur and u may go to negative profit. The problem is the FPGA community gets revenue taken away from them when new asic comes in to dominate the coin. So for asics, difficulty rises as more asics get bought. For FPGAs, difficulty rises as more FPGAs gets bought AND when new asic STEALS a coin. It is conceptually flawed badly. U will also spend more money producing this FPGA picemean over an asic produced mass market. I believe I used very generous numbers here as it is. This is wat i mean by u are actually competing with asics. |
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