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2081  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Transactions speed prevent us from going to Mainstream ? on: November 21, 2015, 10:13:25 PM
Yes. If you wanted to effectively use it, you would have to rely on 0 transactions. Otherwise the time is too long,.

Yes, for such small amount a zero confirmation transaction is enough. I mean the risk for the seller is not really high then.
2082  Economy / Services / Re: [ANN] SebastianJu - Free Legendary Escrow Service - Escrowed over 8150 BTC on: November 21, 2015, 10:08:17 PM
Hi, HarryKPeters https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=510700 and I need escrow.
Topic here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1250715.msg13013828#msg13013828
Also I need you to confirm something. Can you send me a pm, what to do?
Sebastian doesn't escrow account trades , which are worth lower than $50 due to the risk involved, just FYI. Try going for master-p

Exactly. Though i consider the risk too low for the amount of time i would have to invest into escrowing such account. A worthy account has a higher risk and the amount of work is justified. At one point i had so many account trades each day that hours went by by doing it. And the accounts had mostly not even a high value.

Saying that, yes master-P is trustworthy and agreed to do it. If he is not reachable you can try Muhammed Zakir too. I trust them both.

And thanks for all the nice reviews. Smiley
Thanks a lot! We're using master-P as escrow Smiley

He is a honest guy. Good luck with the trade. Smiley
2083  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Gavin is so desperate about his fork? Is he hiding something? on: November 21, 2015, 04:42:05 AM
Or did i misunderstood and you are in favor of increasing blocksize limit? Cheesy
Yes I'm in favor, and Gavin was probably "desperate" because he wanted to avoid even the situation/solution that BTCC is going to do (and I'm sure that it will not be the last)

I don't think that it was stupid, but just the last possibility to save Bitcoin from the corrupted team.

It was just a way to show to the community that it's possible to fork if needed.

But he easily could have been able to bring out his own version with 8MB blocks. He is one of the main developers so it should have been no problem. He had high prestige and now he wasted it.

Well, it's his decision. But it's too bad that we now are in this situation. Would he have been created his own version then many many would have trusted him. But so... even when we know a fork is possible, it is useless when there is no integer developer who creates such a version. No one questionable.
2084  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin halving to be canceled? on: November 21, 2015, 04:18:10 AM
Check out the difficulty history table here: https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty

It would not be months, it would be a maximum of 2 weeks until we would have 10 minutes blocks in average again. And even when we would have blocks with a timeframe of 10 hours occassionally, the average would be 100 minutes and there would be blocks with 10 minutes too. You can't only claim the high timeframe exceptions as valid, the low one are valid too

Two weeks indeed is much better than half a year, though I leave you to decide on this issue with the other poster pretending it to take 145 days. I don't say that the low timeframes are not valid, I just say that they don't matter as much as the high ones, if anything at all. In other words, 10 minutes won't change anything since this is what we already have today, but 10 hours and 100 minutes on average will be an entirely new story...

And likely not a good one with a happy end

For 100 minutes 90%!!! of all miners need to stop. For 10 hours you know it's way more. And it would not make sense at all that so many miners stop because less miners mean they will earn more because they don't have to share with the other miners that left. Of course that will only happen once difficulty is adjusted but surely there will be no big immediate leaving of the network.
2085  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin" on: November 21, 2015, 03:58:49 AM
Would be easy enough to request exchanges to freeze Clams, take a snapshot and simply BAN your clam address.
LOL
Well, I'm not mad at you.  I lost about 90% of my equity but that's just the way the market works.  I only wish you'd have tried to optimize your position a little better so the crash didn't happen so violently.
I could have been better at hiding how many clams I have. By accidentally revealing that info, it lead to a market panic. The amount of clams I sold pales in comparison to what everyone else dumped on the market. I'm definitely the catalyst. So sorry about that.
Seems quite unlikely that you would be smart enough to dig 10.000s of addresses and at the same time be dumb enough to by 'mistake' reveal your address and 'unknowingly' create panic. Even a complete idiot could have dug slower over a long period or time, hid the digging and made 5x the BTC.

The attacks aren't helpful.

Do you have a recommendation or idea for the first census/petition, that doesn't include "I'm taking my toys and going home"?

I don't see them as attacks, because I don't think he's stupid. I am just making the argument that the whole story kind of stinks. There are so much smarter ways to make a LOT of money from digging 10000s of addresses then the way that it's being done and almost none of them involves crashing price by 90%.

Can have many reasons. Unexperienced in trading, fear of the chance going away, being an employee that has no clue and was told by the boss to sell all these clams. And so on.
2086  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Gavin is so desperate about his fork? Is he hiding something? on: November 21, 2015, 03:46:28 AM
Just to remember that the only thing that Gavin wanted was increasing the block size, from 2/3 years ago.
All other things about the fork are after he saw that it wasn't possible with the current Blockstream team.

But why the h... did he join forces with hearn? Someone he criticized all the time already for his dictatoric style and dangerous ideas. That was incredibly stupid. No he lost his credibility. I can't understand him.
2087  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Gavin is so desperate about his fork? Is he hiding something? on: November 21, 2015, 03:44:19 AM
Maybe users will just prefer to pay directly big pools to be sure to get an earlier confirmation.

The small miners will not get much from higher fees. Big companies would simply scale their operation to squeeze the last bit of reward out of the network. Small miners are a dying species.
2088  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Gavin is so desperate about his fork? Is he hiding something? on: November 21, 2015, 03:40:46 AM
Question:  Why Gavin is so desperate about his fork? (increasing size)

Answer (for who has missed it): http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bitcoin-giant-btcc-launches-priority-blockchain-transactions-its-customers-1529730

Just wait for the others.

Well, this business idea was awaitable. If you have such a big part of the networks hashpower then you get such ideas i guess. But 13% is not so much. The speed advantage is not really big. It sounds more like a advertising idea.

But why do you bring Gavin into this? Priority transactions would make way more sense with 1MB blocks because the blocks would be constantly full and you would have no luck getting included often. Then you can easily sell such service.

I'm really puzzled what you want with Gavin at this point. What he wanted to do would make this business model useless.

Or did i misunderstood and you are in favor of increasing blocksize limit? Cheesy
2089  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Gavin is so desperate about his fork? Is he hiding something? on: November 21, 2015, 03:32:01 AM
I might be amateur to this but I think a larger blocksize will eventually be needed.

Probably +95% share that view.

The difference is that: some think that we should use blocksize to solve all scaling problems (when that's not even possible), the other camp wants to do everything possible to increase the transaction rate before increasing the blocksize.

I'm in the latter camp. The former camp likes to mischaracterise this as 1MB4EVA, but it's as obvious to me as to anyone else that the limit will have to go up, but let's minimise that.


I want to see fees > block reward (at least getting close to) before reconsidering the blocksize.

It is a pretty simple equation imho, and it gives us the Time to investigate and balance the whole ecosystem (nodes, Blockchain growth rate, Miners, sidechains, etc) and monitor the fee market whilst the block rewards shrinks.

Hmmm, I see where you're coming from there. It's possible that could happen next year; once we're at 12.5 BTC for the block reward, getting up to, say, 10 BTC in fees might not be so unrealistic. I'm sure the miners are aware of that possibility too, no wonder they rejected BIP101 and XT also.


First, I urge anyone trying to understand the fee mechanism to take a read at this: http://bitcoinfees.com/

Secondly, according to network deficit, fees are not sustainable as of now: https://blockchain.info/charts/network-deficit

How is that deficit calculated? By the current hashrate? That would be nonsense to do because it would look like we need to keep the miner rewards stable. That is not true. Miners switched off nonprofitable hardware all the time and no one was crazy enough to demand we would need fees to make up for the first block halving.

What do you fear will happen when a chunk of miners will drop off their unprofitable miners? The network is more than secure and nothing happened in the past either. I think your fears are unbased.


Thirdly, lets put some actual number on this : nowadays, with half full blocks on average, fee/block = ~0,15BTC
https://www.smartbit.com.au/charts/transaction-fees-per-block

So even after the halving, and unless there is a huge transactio and thus block space demannd (which is different from adoption as people might simply buy and hold - hence not transacting/spending), chances are that fees will stay far far behind the 12,5BTC block reward (also not taking into account the spam and/or bloat attacks, for which the block limit is perfectly justified, yet again, and all over again).

So there is no point discussing the blocksize limit, for it is economically and technically relevant to sustain the order and the security of bitcoin's network.

Besides, again, blocksize is not a solution to scaling bitcoin.

Economically that is nonsense. You sound like we need to raise the amount of miners all the time but it is not allowed to drop. In fact mining momentarely is so rewarding that we have this sheer amount of hashpower that we are 100 fold more secure than needed. Shouldn't that be a good sign that we don't need to feed this useless overhead? It's like a overboarding bureaucracy in a country. Eating a lot of money but politicians say we need all that.

Look at the past, maybe you will see that your fears are unbased.
2090  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Gavin is so desperate about his fork? Is he hiding something? on: November 21, 2015, 03:19:01 AM
Blockstream employees are only but a minority of Core developers

Though they are the ones who can deny changes to the code, isn't it? There is no democracy where the majority decides which code parts get into the next release or am i seeing that wrong?
2091  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Gavin is so desperate about his fork? Is he hiding something? on: November 21, 2015, 03:16:17 AM
The poisonous attacks on Blockstream and the core developers doing their best (and what they believe is best for Bitcoin), is unhelpful and divisive .

I think their intentions aren't questioned without good reasons. If someone wants to save bitcoin then he would save bitcoin. And not come up with a solution that practically means not to use bitcoin.
2092  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Gavin is so desperate about his fork? Is he hiding something? on: November 21, 2015, 03:13:28 AM
Everybody knows that there is a company that bought a team. That this leads to a fork of the dev team shouldn't surprise anybody.

The evidence.

Evidence exists that Hearn and Andresen intend to take Bitcoin over, they state it themselves openly. Where is the evidence that Blockstream bought the Bitcoin dev team? (there is abundant evidence to the contrary, but none that supports your claim)

Not bought but it was always said that the developers in question invested in blockstream. So they own the company partly and obviously that means they await to get their investment back with profits.

Well, this is all so dark that you can't really tell what is true and false. :/
2093  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Gavin is so desperate about his fork? Is he hiding something? on: November 21, 2015, 03:06:34 AM
Miners have full discretion of whether to include a no fee transaction, or not. Forcing a fee market from "on high" is central planning, which can often have the desired effect, in addition to several other (unintended??) side effects.

What's the alternative to central planning when it comes to developing the software? I've not heard one, and I am certain no credible alternative has been proposed (or could logically exist).

Remember also that the dev team isn't set in stone: it's self organising. Gavin Andresen voluntarily ceded control of the github repo commit keys to Wladimir van der Laan, and there's no good reason why something like that shouldn't happen again: Wladimir moves onto other things, so he hands the keys over to someone he finds trustworthy.

I fail to see any other possible way of doing any of this, although I'd certainly be happy to hear it if a good alternative is suggested. I'm not expecting much, though; many, many people much sharper than me have come to a similar conclusion.

Neither the Internet nor the 'Internet of Money' (Bitcoin) need central planning. Development is based on competition.

Right, except that when one internet standards body tries to develop a new standard, competing teams compete by proposing their own system, not hijacking the system of another team so as to change the way that standard works. Get it?  Roll Eyes

Yes, a company hijacked the team to establish a new standard (full blocks).

Lol, I seem to remember Gavin volunteering to leave, and voluntarily joining the (fraudulent/failed) Bitcoin Foundation. Any more jokes?

Yeah, it's a pain that the idealism from the beginning of bitcoin seems to be lost. All developers act like politicians that have their side job at a bank or insurance company. Effectively not working for the people anymore but for the company.
2094  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Gavin is so desperate about his fork? Is he hiding something? on: November 21, 2015, 03:03:37 AM
I might be amateur to this but I think a larger blocksize will eventually be needed.

Probably +95% share that view.

The difference is that: some think that we should use blocksize to solve all scaling problems (when that's not even possible), the other camp wants to do everything possible to increase the transaction rate before increasing the blocksize.

I'm in the latter camp. The former camp likes to mischaracterise this as 1MB4EVA, but it's as obvious to me as to anyone else that the limit will have to go up, but let's minimise that.


I want to see fees > block reward (at least getting close to) before reconsidering the blocksize.

It is a pretty simple equation imho, and it gives us the Time to investigate and balance the whole ecosystem (nodes, Blockchain growth rate, Miners, sidechains, etc) and monitor the fee market whilst the block rewards shrinks.

Hmmm, I see where you're coming from there. It's possible that could happen next year; once we're at 12.5 BTC for the block reward, getting up to, say, 10 BTC in fees might not be so unrealistic. I'm sure the miners are aware of that possibility too, no wonder they rejected BIP101 and XT also.

I was of the impression that the bigger miners spoke out for changing the blocksize limit to 8 Megabytes. Which looked interesting to me since they did not set the shortterm income over the longterm development.

At the end high fees will lead to less transactions, which leads to less total fees again. Well, i hope miners are thinking longterm. Though the difficulty is not really promoting this way of thinking. If you don't have your investment back in the first 2 or 3 months then you most probably will never. So the shortterm income is everything, nearly like trained into miners. Roll Eyes
2095  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Gavin is so desperate about his fork? Is he hiding something? on: November 21, 2015, 02:59:56 AM
I might be amateur to this but I think a larger blocksize will eventually be needed.

Probably +95% share that view.

The difference is that: some think that we should use blocksize to solve all scaling problems (when that's not even possible), the other camp wants to do everything possible to increase the transaction rate before increasing the blocksize.

I'm in the latter camp. The former camp likes to mischaracterise this as 1MB4EVA, but it's as obvious to me as to anyone else that the limit will have to go up, but let's minimise that.


I want to see fees > block reward (at least getting close to) before reconsidering the blocksize.

It is a pretty simple equation imho, and it gives us the Time to investigate and balance the whole ecosystem (nodes, Blockchain growth rate, Miners, sidechains, etc) and monitor the fee market whilst the block rewards shrinks.

Why the h... would you want such thing? Expensive transactions for what purpose? We have no poor hungry miners that need the money badly. And even if you manage to make up for the next block halving with fees then you would only make it more rewarding for big mining corporations to create a couple thousand more miners. The small miners would not earn much more at the end. Their miners worth would be diluted by those who can create miners cheaply.

I think you might be a miner. But i think you are very mistaken if you think that raising the fees will lead to more income for you. It would lead to more miners going online, diluting the additional reward to the level it was before. Because that level would be the level where it did not make sense to create more miners because the investment probably would not come back.
2096  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Gavin is so desperate about his fork? Is he hiding something? on: November 21, 2015, 02:53:16 AM
I might be amateur to this but I think a larger blocksize will eventually be needed.

Probably +95% share that view.

The difference is that: some think that we should use blocksize to solve all scaling problems (when that's not even possible), the other camp wants to do everything possible to increase the transaction rate before increasing the blocksize.

I'm in the latter camp. The former camp likes to mischaracterise this as 1MB4EVA, but it's as obvious to me as to anyone else that the limit will have to go up, but let's minimise that.

So especially you, what do you want? Raise the blocksize limit once we are at an average of 95% filled blocks? Or do you want to go over the 1MB with legit transactions? I think when this happens then we already have a big problem. Bitcoin will lose credibility since obviously bitcoin can not be trusted anymore as one could before.

The fee market is not needed as reward for the miners, mining is obviously so rewarding that we are way more secure than needed.

So the risks bitcoin would be placed into are real, but the advantages not really important. I mean why doesn't game developers think that way "if we would develop battlefield so that it could be played on an pentium 2 then we would raise our userbase and would have more sales" They don't think that way because the game would be inferiour then. Nobody would want or use it. You can't deliver work under these premises.
2097  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Gavin is so desperate about his fork? Is he hiding something? on: November 21, 2015, 02:43:47 AM
Miners have full discretion of whether to include a no fee transaction, or not. Forcing a fee market from "on high" is central planning, which can often have the desired effect, in addition to several other (unintended??) side effects.

What's the alternative to central planning when it comes to developing the software? I've not heard one, and I am certain no credible alternative has been proposed (or could logically exist).

Remember also that the dev team isn't set in stone: it's self organising. Gavin Andresen voluntarily ceded control of the github repo commit keys to Wladimir van der Laan, and there's no good reason why something like that shouldn't happen again: Wladimir moves onto other things, so he hands the keys over to someone he finds trustworthy.

I fail to see any other possible way of doing any of this, although I'd certainly be happy to hear it if a good alternative is suggested. I'm not expecting much, though; many, many people much sharper than me have come to a similar conclusion.

Neither the Internet nor the 'Internet of Money' (Bitcoin) need central planning. Development is based on competition.

Right, except that when one internet standards body tries to develop a new standard, competing teams compete by proposing their own system, not hijacking the system of another team so as to change the way that standard works. Get it?  Roll Eyes

Do you say those who want to make bitcoin able to keep up with the rising amount of transactions are hijackers? I think they are the normal users of bitcoin. Though maybe i misunderstood your sentence.
2098  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Gavin is so desperate about his fork? Is he hiding something? on: November 21, 2015, 02:39:38 AM
Quote
Well, i might be wrong and they really have no such motives and they really believe all this... nonsense... of centralization, because some old computers cannot be nodes anymore, or that we need a fee market for some reason no one than they can understand. But these arguments seem so far fetched that you ask yourself if they did not find better ones at all.
I don't understand why you cannot grasp it. Nevermind that 'old computers' strawman, it's quite simple.

Larger blocks create centralizing pressure on nodes by raising the cost of creating and running them. Do you argee with that? Do you agree that we must consider it as a part of security-scalability tradeoff? If yes, then you are much closer to Blockstream guys than you might think.

I agree that there might be a centralizing effect. But that effect is not even high enough than the technical development. The harddisc spaces doubles how often for the same price? The cpu-power doubles how often for the same price? Internet speed grows constantly too. And so on. If some old computers has to be replaced then this is the natural way it went all the time till now. Why should bitcoin be different there?

And be honest... what pressure? Even when we would have 2 MB blocks in 2 years... that is nothing each 10 minutes. This is like some spook that is painted on the wall... but it simply has no substance.

So i see that there might be an effect but that effect is easily eaten by the technological progress. In reality it will not be a problem. Of course when one thinks the way that we will use the same old tech in 2 years then it might be that there is an effect. Though that is simply far away from reality.
So you simply disregard that concern, because you think it's nothing. Do you back it up by numbers, maybe?

Your beloved Moore's law (which is not a law actually, just an observation, which is not guaranteed to continue) is already failing, with CPU performance doubling roughly every 2.5 years. Internet bandwidth is increasing 30% per year on average at best. Meanwhile, actual blocksizes have risen more than 4-fold in the last 2 years. Don't you notice the large expanding gap here? Where does this gap stop expanding?

Didn't realize that there is a gap like that. Well, what should i say? It looks like a problem that might come up in the future.

Though something that is pretty sure is that a restricted bitcoin is a real problem. Imagine the currency of a country has a daily transaction limit. Only a certain amount of transactions can be done by the people of that country. The one who pays more might get his transaction through, others will never be able to get a transaction. The result would be that the people would be forced to abandon bitcoin. And even the ones who still want to use it would have to deal with a high amount of uncertainties. Will my transaction go through or will it stuck? Everyone would only use it if he needs to use it. Because time is essential on bitcoin especially. If you are unlucky you have 10 or even 25% less value the next day. Bitcoin would be risky then.
2099  Economy / Services / Re: [ANN] SebastianJu - Free Legendary Escrow Service - Escrowed over 8150 BTC on: November 21, 2015, 02:27:37 AM
Hi, HarryKPeters https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=510700 and I need escrow.
Topic here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1250715.msg13013828#msg13013828
Also I need you to confirm something. Can you send me a pm, what to do?
Sebastian doesn't escrow account trades , which are worth lower than $50 due to the risk involved, just FYI. Try going for master-p

Exactly. Though i consider the risk too low for the amount of time i would have to invest into escrowing such account. A worthy account has a higher risk and the amount of work is justified. At one point i had so many account trades each day that hours went by by doing it. And the accounts had mostly not even a high value.

Saying that, yes master-P is trustworthy and agreed to do it. If he is not reachable you can try Muhammed Zakir too. I trust them both.

And thanks for all the nice reviews. Smiley
2100  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: November 21, 2015, 01:16:24 AM
What's truly funny is the shares still being traded on havelock. Even at junk prices, the company doesn't even really exist anymore and still people are trading them like any scammy crapcoin.


Exactly. It's no wonder every single offering here is some scam or fail. Obviously people will invest in anything, even a dead horse.

I think the reason is speculation. They know it is dead but it can't become worse. So when the price would be a satoshi then what can happen? 2 Satoshies? Then this would be a profit of 100%. That's the reason why many people trade altcoins. Though the volume is pretty low.

I really don't think any of them believes that the company has a promising future.
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