Change your topic subject too....


BITINSTANT: always follow instructions!

Virtual currency schemes differ from electronic money schemes insofar as the currency being used as the unit of account has no physical counterpart with legal tender status.

 Dollars and Euro's have some physical counterpart with legal tenter status. 

You are defining "Virtual"

I'm defining "Virtual Currency"

While 97% of fiat may be "virtual" ie is does not exist in the real world, it is not a "virtual currency" as is has legal tender status.

Bitcoin is a true virtual currency.

I've been hesitating to post about this because what you are stating is a very real concern from many of the member who are posting.  Let me compose something and I'll post here.

EDIT:

DutchBrat, I will say that if you were an investor and you were defrauded the any information you give is perfectly valid.  The only issue may be your nationality, and only the SEC can tell you how they can take and use information you provide.


Also this is a Securities investigation.  What information, posting, prospectus or email with information about the investment did you RELY on to make your investment.  This is the crux of the investigation.

Ok.  Define virtual currency then make your point again.  I think you are clouding the issue.  Hopefully your explanation will help clear that up.

Thanks.

All positive flags if someone was researching a trade or loan to you.

But in my opinion a scammer is someone who does not uphold their side of a trade, or repay a loan with in the specified time and does not make agreed upon efforts to extend the time frame.

And you can only be a scammer AFTER this event occurs.  

Unfortunately many members troll the newbee and lendor boards and and cry scammer anytime they seek a loan or want to pay with Paypal

easily 2/3 of my trades are with newbees who come here to check out bitcoin and are making there first small purchase.  and 99.9% of them were not scammers.

EDIT: The other .1% refuse to provide any verication and usually go on to scam other.  Coincleaner and other.  (I actually started a WATCH LIST for just this reason but unfortunately is did not receive much attention).

So it is one thing to be cautious and warn user, but it is also not very productive, or friendly or welcoming to automatically accuse new members just because they fit some predefined profile.

molecular

good point.

hazed, I see you point and your statement may or may not be true, depending on your stance but for now euros and dollars, despite how many physical specimens exist relative to the total balance outstanding, are still legal tender and bitcoin is not.  I think that is the salient point here.

Underminer,

If I have time (like a weather day today) i'll skim all the threads and if I see suspect behavior I'll call it out.    I'm not a lender or a borrower, but the is just too much riff raff on this board.  An it my opinon it is up to the member to police the boards becuase it seem the admins won't (unless it involves a personal feud).

Yea, I hear you.   but is underminer a scammer?  (I don't know)

hazek

I still don't think you point, while an important one, is clear....

electronic money is like western union.  You take fiat from you bank or credit card and WU transfers it to another location electorniclly and the receiptent collect fiat  (goven't backed legal tender)

Bitcoin does the same think but it is not backed by fiat or gold and not legal tender in essense "Virtual".  It's value is preceived by the user.

Thanks molecular

Hadn't gotten that far yet.

LOVE this paper.

Tomatocage

You a "Hero Member."  Bitcoin has a bad enough rep with all the scammers.  Surly you can articulate yourself and represent me and bitcoin a little more civilly.

Thanks

no one is legal tender and the other is not, yes?

Casascius,

You should send the SEC some Chocolate Coins.

Philip Moustakis
Senior Attorney
Division of Enforcement
United States Securities & Exchange Commission
3 World Financial Center, Suite 400, New York, NY 10281-1022



From the US Department of Justice Website
http://www.justice.gov/jmd/ethics/generalf.htm#three

What is a gift?

Jake, an employee at the Fish and Wildlife Service, attends a 2:30 p.m. meeting with officials of a local environmental organization that is concerned about a proposed FWS regulation. The meeting is held at the offices of the environmental organization, which sends out for coffee and donuts. Jake would like to help himself to the refreshments but wonders whether they might be considered a prohibited "gift."

May Jake accept the snacks? Yes.

The term "gift" includes almost anything of monetary value. But there are some items that won't be considered gifts. Among these are soft drinks, coffee, donuts, and other modest refreshments offered other than as part of a meal.


Exceptions to the gift rule

Nick's job at the Federal Trade Commission is to provide economic input on issues involving consumer protection. He is given a ballpoint pen worth about $18 from a member of a consulting firm that frequently makes presentations before the FTC on behalf of affected clients.

May Nick accept the pen? Yes.

There are a number of exceptions to the rules against acceptance of gifts and one of these permits employees to accept unsolicited gifts with a market value of $20 or less per occasion.

This "$20 rule" does not apply to gifts of cash or investment interests. Also, under the rule, gifts received from any one source may not, in the aggregate, exceed $50 in a calendar year.

hazek

[snip]This also means that since the only difference between bitcoins and dollars is that bitcoins' physical counterparts aren't legal tender that they admit dollars, euros and the rest of the fiat currencies are essentially virtual currencies.[/snip]

I don't follow.

We could use this to help define our terms as we continue to refign how we communicate what bitcoin is to a non-users.

I've hear people refer to bitcoin as electronic money, which according to this paper would refer to a unit of account that has a physical counterpart with legal tender status, ie western union.


Virtual currency schemes differ from electronic money schemes insofar as the currency being used as the unit of account has no physical counterpart with legal tender status.

but  the bitinstant servers are not located in brooklyn are they?

Is the service hosted in a location in the path of the storm?

He's GOAT.  On a sunken boat.

maybe: bitcoin.org Satoshi client (?)

I totally agree about customer service!

PM him at

Yankee (BitInstant)

evoorhees  also works for bitinstant

They both are very active on the boards.