I don't think any of the cryptonote chain explorers make it easy to answer that (they don't even display the number of coins moved in each block).

Someone could write a program to do it of course.

The huge blocks of masternodes controlled by a few whales (hi Otoh!) and instaminers, Evan acknowledging full control over the voting system by insiders, masternode rewards going to enrich whales and insiders while ripping off people who try to use the coin for transactional purposes via inflation (assuming such people actually existed), etc. are all highly relevant to discussion of this absurd "internet of money" premise being pushed by you and the other Dash pumpers.

We agree it is important to discuss this issue, so everyone can rationally evaluate the premise, but we disagree on exactly how to best discuss it. Fair enough, that's what forum discussion threads are for. The forum would be fairly uninteresting if it were nothing but a bunch of shilling wouldn't it?

We agree on that narrow point. Now back on topic please...

Thank you for the link to Apple's support page. Here's what you were asking for:


1/50K is small enough to brute force if DRM didn't prevent it. Some of DRM may be implemented in hardware on newer phones though.

If you don't want 1/50K bruteforceability (i.e. you want strong end-to-end security) you have to turn off TouchID.

See edit above

Ask Apple, i don't know the details of the implementation or design decision. Maybe it doesn't lose it, but Apple still requires the passcode after a reset, for whatever their reasons.

I agree with you that it is possible to do what you suggest (long secure password, assuming you don't lose it), but very few people do it or will ever do it.

https://www.quora.com/Why-does-touch-ID-on-the-iPhone-5S-ask-you-to-enter-a-password-after-restart-and-not-just-allow-fingerprint-scanning-alone

We're veering off topic in any case, I think, unless Monero has similar issues.

Huge blocks of masternodes controlled by a few whales (hi Otoh!) and instaminers, Evan acknowledging full control over the voting system by insiders, masternode rewards going to enrich whales and insiders while ripping off people who try to use the coin for transactional purposes via inflation (assuming such people actually existed), etc.

None of this is "true decentralization". ROFL #spamthread

If you are traveling away from the inconvenient location, and your phone resets for whatever reason (including an OS bug/crash, dead battery, etc.), you will lose access to it. Also some other operations you might want to perform such as upgrades require that actual passcode, not touchID. So this is, at present, impractical.

Also, you will lose access entirely if you forget the strong password and don't even have it written down in an inconvenient location.


If you use a strong password, you wouldn't be following Apple's recommendations, which was what ArticMine's said earlier.

Respectfully, I'd ask the Monero supporters to either stay on topic and explain why the premise is nonsense as I have done in the past (I don't have an easy link to the post but I broke down the specific chronology and cited sources showing how the crippled miner only accounted for a few percent of the coins at most, with well-documented non-involvement of the coin team) or just ignore this obvious troll thread.

It is no more legitimate to respond to this thread with comments about Dash, charts of the Dash instamine, etc. than it is for Dash supporters to respond to criticism of their instamine scam with comments about Monero.

EDIT: nice chart comparing XMR and BTC over a longer term view. It looks like from 2020 or so, XMR and BTC will be very similar in terms of coin supply and inflation, until XMR passes BTC in supply around 2040 and maintains its slightly higher <1% inflation going forward long term.

TouchID is, at present, a convenience feature that allows fast unlocking functions instead of typing in a passcode. It is never required and the passcode is always required. Thus it can't possibly add any additional security beyond what the passphrase already provides.

What they have planned for the future I have no idea.

So what? There are 1000+ other coins. Even if Bitcoin implodes into a singularity of melted chinese ASICs tomorrow, that doesn't mean any other coin would succeed and if one did that it would be the grandaddy of all instamine scams, Dash, of all choices.

This was changed fairly recently, and yes I agree it is still pretty trivial to crack. Interestingly there are some, err, "bugs" that will sometimes require you to set specifically a 4 digit passcode. You can change it later, but some people won't...

Also, TouchID is only a secondary mechanism. When you power cycle an iOS device you always have to unlock it with he password first, only then can you use TouchID. Later, you can use the password instead (necessary if TouchID doesn't work, which apparently is not so uncommon).

Finally, I don't think the phone in question had TouchID

Okay, thanks. It wasn't clear you were specifically linking the beginning. I'll watch it.

Probably not lying, but these systems are complex, always under development to implement the complex, possibly conflicting, and often shifting demands of DRM, and therefore very unlikely to actually ever be very secure.

Also, it is well known that intelligence agencies have infiltrated tech companies in the past and no reason to think this doesn't continue so there may well be back doors (facilitated by complexity in which they can hide) that "Apple" as an entity doesn't even know about even though someone working for Apple or an Apple vendor put it there.

Can you summarize or provide a timestamp link.

Personally I think GPU vs. botnet is going to become an irrelevant distinction as more and more botnet nodes will be sufficiently GPU-capable to mine effectively. TPTB posted link to a story like a year and a half ago about a large botnet that was made up of higher end gaming computers, but even lower end computers are showing rapid technological progress in terms of integrated GPU capabilities.

On a current AMD APU, you can effectively mine Monero on both the CPU and the GPU. I don't know if more GPU-focused algorithms like ethhash are effectively mineable there, but if not then clearly that is just a generation or two away.

Ultimately even ASICs will be captured by botnets if network security continues to suck and such ASICs are widespread enough. There have been a few attacks on ASIC mining already that involved redirecting the miners, but if ASICs did somehow become more widely dispersed in the future (as some suggest might happen if and when the chips become commoditized) this would explode.

As long as security is crap, botnets will infect everything.

But at the same time, they seem very self-limiting for specifically mining in practice for now. It is very unlikely there is anything close to the million+ botnet nodes it would take to mine most of Monero, so they are just a small-ish part of the network. If Monero continues to grow their share will probably continue to decrease.

I'm just adding another perspective. I don't disagree there are trade offs to be made.