As someone who has been shot and watched a daughter die, I have a very hard line on postings that advocate violence.  They are across the line.  No amount of hand waving that they are a joke or you were angry, or thoughtless, or drunk, or that you apologize will repair their cumulative damage.  They are simply wrong.

With no regard whatsoever to the idea that I have been harmed to the level of $16,000 or $30,000 by shipping delays, it harms the future value of my bitcoins for the community to act like jerks.  If bitcoins are a niche thing that only angry anarchist use, they are wortheless, and if our community postings make us seem that way, we jeopardize the adoption in real commerce and it would not matter whether you can mine today or not. 

Quit peeing in the pool.

 BFL have publicly stated their entire order backlog would be resolved by end of September. We have no reason to distrust them.

 A little bit more patience is all that is asked. Lets be reasonable.

Agreed you have been open, reading a lot of the BFL threads and seeing your posts is how I came to those conclusions.  I was not intending to imply you were hiding things just pointing it out for anyone who may not have be totally familiar with the background.

I have 3 disputes against them one of the orders i used my credit card thru paypal and the rest from my bank account.

Now if i dispute it with my credit card and do a charge back will be account be in a bad standing with paypal?


Also on my disputes paypal is asking me to respond and when i click on view there is nothing that i can do it is either cancel dispute or change reason.

What should i do?

PL = ASIC horse race winner (made the right choice backing Avalon B1) has likely made thousands of dollars from his initial $1300 USD investment and at one point (maybe not currently I don't really know) appeared to be, unsurprisingly a Yifu fanbois.

I'm stone cold guessing here but he could be sitting on a nice little stash of BTC quietly waiting for Avalon Gen2 devices and cheap resale ASICS.

Not sure you will see the passionate disdain for Avalon he openly showed for BFL, just saying.

PuertoLibre = Master Avalon shill.

What BitSyncom is doing is also, or even worse than BFL...

PuertoLibre, please, put your very smart BFL threat advice to BitSyncom now...cause we have a new (scam) Champ' here

They did not give me refund and on the dispute they said it is shipped but they canceled my order.

They do that trick some customers think well they shipped it let me close the dispute and once you close it you cannot reopen it

We can now lock this thread!

The thing that's stopping me from asking for a refund is the collateral damage it might cause to Steamboat. I've already paid for chips and assembly and know that Steamboat has already spent money to acquire components in good faith.

 How can I ask for a refund under those circumstances, knowing that Steamboat is completely blameless for Avalon not following through ?

 It's not an easily rectifiable situation.

Burnin is a nice guy. Zefir was very professional too.you are exxaggerating.

The problem is that bitcoin failed twice here:

First, you have more chances to recover your money when paying with your credit card, or paypal.

And second, shit will fall on small miners, just like in reality they do, because system is corrupted.

Where do you get this? I created a groupbuy and we bought 5.6 batches together. And im behind this all the time. Its disappointing how everytime random users appear and claim things without checking first.

Especially for you again: I called yifu for days 2-4 times each hour. He clicks you away or waits until it ends. He wont answer. I write emails and tickets... its useless. I collected all email addresses from everywhere i could find that belongs to people that are connected to avalon and might know more... no answer.

I created a thread here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264224 and together with the other thread it leaded at least to Yifu logging into the forum 2 times, maybe his new statement was pushed by this too.

I thought about sueing avalon but it would be pointless. The time the judge made his decision the chips are worth zero. So we are at some point at the mercy of Yifu. Of course if all is lost and he not even wants to pay a refund we have to sue him.

And then some seems to misunderstood the concept of a groupbuy. Its collecting money so that all can get something they couldnt buy alone. That means that money is gone when the product is ordered.

Let me say you one thing... if i would have known before how much trouble this groupbuy things mean, the hours i spent 7 days a week for months now, the trouble and anger to not reach Yifu and not getting support, the legal things and stress surrounding it, all the data to be collected, up to 95 pm's each day answering... i wouldnt do it again. And i tell this everyone who is asking me if he should do a groupbuy.

And now some random persons come in, i never heard of them, and demand i, and others, pay them back out of their own pocket. Man... thank you so much... i wish i could put the weight on my shoulders on yours for a while.

Maybe now people will start to understand why ALL FULL fucking PAYMENT pre-orders are really really bad for most consumers and why the companies likes this business model (and why the want you to believe its the only way to get an ASIC made LNFAO).

You poor investomers took so much risk and what did Avalon risk, SFA IMO.  Now once you poor investomers finally get your chips your profits will be 0 or quite possibly - but Avalon, with no risk makes a fucking killing either way LOL.

But hey I'd be willing to bet if Avalon sticks to the no pre-sales going forward that gen2 customers will appreciate you funding it all for them.

Wake up folks you have the goddamn POWER (money) stop supporting pre-orders, as a group with the power you can force these shady pricks to smarten up and be professionals. Well I guess that's probably to much to ask when a gold rush mentality exists.

Not true, they could get their customers involved through class-action. But I wasn't even discussing a lawsuit, I am simply discussing the fact that they mentioned making no attempts at clarifying the cause for the delay, when the delay has been over a month now.

When I see that someone isn't attempting to get answers I must assume they are in on it.

Notice that only BKK has commented on this thread out of ALL the group buys and assemblers - they are MIA again.

One of the reasons I am suspect of at least some of the group buy organizers and assemblers (i.e., TH) is that they have not been vocal at all on this subject - they remain completely silent. Why have they not all banned together to find answers weeks ago? None of it makes any sense unless they are involved or in the know somehow. They may already have the chips and are mining with them. TerraHash was originally supposed to ship the first orders between mid and late July, then they said August 15, now there is NO ETA.

They didn't plan to operate like a full-on scam where nothing would be delivered, it would just be delivered late and they assumed everything would quiet down once they were delivered even though the ROI was drastically reduced. In addition the first chip buyers who have their orders may have benefited as well by having the rest of the hashing power halted.

There may be members on this topic who are involved but playing good-cop/bad-cop.

If he doesn't come up with some sort of offering to compensate us, I cant see how he can show his face in public again.

He needs to restore his credibility, and fast.  Even refunding all our money without the chips wont keep the wolf from the door.

If I get my chips NOW, and 50% refund and be first in line for free next gen ASICs, then I might be a bit happier.