just finished it.
fantastic performance by Gavin. he comes across as measured, thoughtful, caring, and with the right principles. he also hit on many important points and answered questions appropriately.
couldn't have been better. this is why we have Gavin as the Chief Scientist.
+1 It is a pitty that the myths of money policies and necessity of central bank intervention were left in the air as they were. I wish all the cumbersomeness of the economic theories was shown and made more apparent to rather fall apart. agreed but i'll settle for when Gavin in response to the interviewers diatribe about the benefits of central banking, crinkled his nose and said (i paraphrase), "yeeeah, i don't know." he then went on to highlight the problems with Zimbabwe and said that most Bitcoiners think the central bank has done a "horrible job". there wasn't time for much more. Douglas A. Rediker, Visiting Fellow, Peterson Institute for International Economics; Former Member, Executive Board, International Monetary Fund Who was the guy interviewing Gavin? |
|
|
|
|
Regardless of what you conspiracy nuts say, the video of Gavin at the CFR confirm yet gain that Gavin is one our our BEST advocates out there.
|
|
|
|
|
We need a conference in Kansas City.
|
|
|
|
Unfortunately illicit actors are using bitcoin to launder money and cash out stolen funds or credit cards. If you don't know your counter party you could be complicit in this activity.
Regardless of how you FEEL about it, Anti-Money Laundering Laws exist and banks and payment processors like Paypal are under tremendous pressure from their regulators and auditors to mitigate these risks.
I'm not defending or condoning any activity.
These are just fact of life in our "post 9/11" society.
False. Even Fincen admitted at the Bitcoin discussions last year that illicit actors using an East European branch of Paypal to launder money for example was a much bigger problem than Bitcoin. The last thing major criminals want is their black book of illegal transactions to be available and dissect-able on a global public ledger. TRUE, But banker read the Newspapers and Newspapers say bitcoin is TOTALLY ANONYMOUS and they are scared to death of the risks. And many criminals and a lot of miss-informed individuals who post on here still believe their virtual currency activity is anonymous. |
|
|
|
First they ignore you. Then they yell at you. Then they fight you, Then They Arrest You, Then you win.
FTFY |
|
|
|
|
Unfortunately illicit actors are using bitcoin to launder money and cash out stolen funds or credit cards. If you don't know your counter party you could be complicit in this activity.
Regardless of how you FEEL about it, Anti-Money Laundering Laws exist and banks and payment processors like Paypal are under tremendous pressure from their regulators and auditors to mitigate these risks.
I'm not defending or condoning any activity.
These are just fact of life in our "post 9/11" society.
|
|
|
|
Nice Job. Is sucks having to swallow our pride and admit we were scammed. It has happened to all of us. And it take courage to come forward to admit it. That is what these scammers pray on and allows many of them to get away with it (TF). I think now that it is public you have a much better opportunity for law enforcement to pursue it. Even if you don't get all your funds back just knowing they are going after this guy and hopefully will catch him may give some satisfaction. Good luck. Wisconsin man loses $150,000 in international bitcoin scam http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_25057486/wisconsin-man-loses-150-000-international-bitcoin-scam |
|
|
|
|
Jakers, If it is true you are a good man.
|
|
|
|
TBZ - We don't even need to commit a crime to be accused. The mere idea of being caught up in the NSA's algorithm for reading the wrong books, or visiting the wrong countries or having the wrong friends can get you branded and investigated as a terrorist and if your skin is brown or your name is hard to pronounce they can even lock you up for years with out legal due process or even just kill you with a drone. #FRIGHTENING http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/01/edward-snowden-intelligence-leak-nsa-contractor-extract |
|
|
|
There are several things going on here it seems. I'll see how many I can address.
1. Federal Money Transmitter License - There is actually no such thing at a federal level. The only thing the Fed's require is that you register and file SAR reports when deemed necessary. They also want us to check to ensure we aren't doing business with anybody on the OFAC list. We are registered and the list checking and reporting is fairly easy to do, but detecting suspicious activity is a very subjective thing. It's certainly easier to determine suspicious activity when dealing with USD. Before launching USD, we will have the necessary items in place.
2. State Level Licenses - The states aren't going to come and shut you down, but they may fine you and tell you not to deal with people in their state until you get licensed there. We are in the process of getting state licenses. Some are harder than others. This is another thing we are waiting on before doing USD. Many of the states who we previously thought would require a license have stated that we probably do not need one. Many states have laws which were written before the internet. Some state requirements are a little overboard.
3. SR stuff. Just because some coins passed through a service that ended up at SR doesn't mean that it would be covered under any laws which would result in forfeitures. Only if we were willfully and knowingly performing such actions, which we are not. We may be subpoenaed for information in such cases where funds pass through here, which of course we would comply with.
BigVern
BigVern, Thanks for your thoughts. There are still some important issues. Again I am not an attorney, this is just my understanding of existing law and regulation. 1. On July 21st FinCEN issued a Final Rule on "Definitions and Other Regulations Relating to Money Services Businesses" (RIN 1506–AA97) that includes the following: *** The regulatory definition of ‘‘money transmission services’’ includes the phrase ‘‘or other value that substitutes for currency’’ to state that businesses that accept stored value or currency equivalents as a funding source and transmit that value are providing money transmission services. FinCEN has modified the final rule so that both references to ‘‘value’’ in the regulation are expressed as ‘‘value that substitutes for currency’’ to maintain consistency in the rule’s language. *** This essentially included all virtual currencies within the scope of the Bank Secrecy Act. So according to FinCEN it does not matter if you are not transferring or converting from USD. Transferring and converting virtual currency is also money transmission under these Federal Regulations. 2. No the states aren't going to shut you down but operating a "unlicensed money transmitter" if a federal offence under U.S.C. 1960 (b)(1)(a): *** is operated without an appropriate money transmitting license in a State where such operation is punishable as a misdemeanor or a felony under State law, whether or not the defendant knew that the operation was required to be licensed or that the operation was so punishable; *** U.S.C. 1960 (a) states: *** Whoever knowingly conducts, controls, manages, supervises, directs, or owns all or part of an unlicensed money transmitting business, shall be fined in accordance with this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both. *** So no the states will not come after you but if you are serving customers in US State where a money transmission laws apply, you could be as risk for violating these statues. Unfortunately laws don't always mean what we "think" they mean. They mean what regulators and law enforcement want them to mean unless proven otherwise in a court of law. 3. I think TechSare addressed the very broad implication of civil asset forfeiture. Again, I'm not an attorney nor a legal expert, however we have seen these statues used with tremendous impact in the digital currency space in recent months. There are serious implications and we as a community of businesses and users need to understand the implications as best we can. Unfortunately the legal gray area is currently very broad which possesses significant risk for all involved until we see greater legislative and regulatory clarity in the digital currency space. Again I don't assume to know Cryptsy.com's business model or safe guards to prevent this type of action. I'm just trying to point out that these are currently risks we are all assuming by operating and transacting in this space. |
|
|
|
Fuck shrem.
Ahhh.... Looks like he FUCKED himself..... |
|
|
|
This is the official ruling. http://www.fincen.gov/news_room/rp/rulings/pdf/FIN-2014-R001.pdfFinancial Crimes Enforcement Network Ruling FIN-2014-R001 Issued: January 30, 2014 Subject: Application of FinCEN’s Regulations to Virtual Currency Mining Operations Dear [ ]: This responds to your letter of June 1, 2013, seeking an administrative ruling from the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (“FinCEN”) on behalf of [the Company], about [the Company]’s possible status as a money services business (“MSB”) under the Bank Secrecy Act (“BSA”). Specifically, you ask whether certain ways of disposing of the Bitcoins mined by [the Company] would make [the Company] a money transmitter under the BSA. You state that [the Company] mines Bitcoins. You further state that the Bitcoins that [the Company] has mined have not yet been used or transferred, but that [the Company] may decide to use this virtual currency to purchase goods or services, convert the virtual currency into currency of legal tender and use the currency to purchase goods and services, or transfer the virtual currency to the owner of the company. You ask in your letter whether any of these transactions would make [the Company] a money transmitter under the BSA. On July 21, 2011, FinCEN published a Final Rule amending definitions and other regulations relating to MSBs (the “Rule”).1 The amended regulations define an MSB as “a person wherever located doing business, whether or not on a regular basis or as an organized business concern, wholly or in substantial part within the United States, in one or more of the capacities listed in paragraphs (ff)(1) through (ff)(6) of this section. This includes but is not limited to maintenance of any agent, agency, branch, or office within the United States.”2 BSA regulations, as amended, define the term “money transmitter” to include a person that provides money transmission services, or any other person engaged in the transfer of funds. The term “money transmission services” means the acceptance of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency from one person and the transmission of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency to another location or person by any means.3 The regulations also stipulate that whether a person is a money transmitter is a matter of facts and circumstances, and identifies circumstances under which a person’s activities would not make such person a money transmitter.4 On March 18, 2013, FinCEN issued guidance on the application of FinCEN’s regulations to transactions in virtual currencies (the “guidance”).5 FinCEN's regulations define currency (also referred to as “real” currency) as “the coin and paper money of the United States or of any other country that is designated as legal tender and that [ii] circulates and [iii] is customarily used and accepted as a medium of exchange in the country of issuance.”6 In contrast to real currency, “virtual” currency is a medium of exchange that operates like a currency in some environments, but does not have all the attributes of real currency. In particular, virtual currency does not have legal tender status in any jurisdiction. The guidance addresses “convertible” virtual currency. This type of virtual currency either has an equivalent value in real currency, or acts as a substitute for real currency.
For purposes of the guidance, FinCEN refers to the participants in generic virtual currency arrangements, using the terms “exchanger,” “administrator,” and “user.” An exchanger is a person engaged as a business in the exchange of virtual currency for real currency, funds, or other virtual currency. An administrator is a person engaged as a business in issuing (putting into circulation) a virtual currency, and who has the authority to redeem (to withdraw from circulation) such virtual currency. A user is a person that obtains virtual currency to purchase goods or services on the user’s own behalf.
The guidance makes clear that an administrator or exchanger of convertible virtual currencies that (1) accepts and transmits a convertible virtual currency or (2) buys or sells convertible virtual currency in exchange for currency of legal tender or another convertible virtual currency for any reason (including when intermediating between a user and a seller of goods or services the user is purchasing on the user’s behalf) is a money transmitter under FinCEN's regulations, unless a limitation to or exemption from the definition applies to the person.7 The guidance also makes clear that “a user who obtains convertible virtual currency and uses it to purchase real or virtual goods or services is not an MSB under FinCEN's regulations.” FinCEN understands your letter to amount to a request to elaborate on this last statement in the specific context of a user that obtains the convertible virtual currency Bitcoin by mining.
How a user obtains a virtual currency may be described using any number of other terms, such as “earning,” “harvesting,” “mining,” “creating,” “auto-generating,” “manufacturing,” or “purchasing,” depending on the details of the specific virtual currency model involved. The label applied to a particular process of obtaining a virtual currency is not material to the legal characterization under the BSA of the process or of the person engaging in the process to send that virtual currency or its equivalent value to any other person or place. What is material to the conclusion that a person is not an MSB is not the mechanism by which a person obtains the convertible virtual currency, but what the person uses the convertible virtual currency for, and for whose benefit.
FinCEN understands that Bitcoin mining imposes no obligations on a Bitcoin user to send mined Bitcoin to any other person or place for the benefit of another. Instead, the user is free to use the mined virtual currency or its equivalent for the user’s own purposes, such as to purchase real or virtual goods and services for the user’s own use. To the extent that a user mines Bitcoin and uses the Bitcoin solely for the user’s own purposes and not for the benefit of another, the user is not an MSB under FinCEN’s regulations, because these activities involve neither “acceptance” nor “transmission” of the convertible virtual currency and are not the transmission of funds within the meaning of the Rule. This is the case whether the user mining and using the Bitcoin is an individual or a corporation, and whether the user is purchasing goods or services for the user’s own use, paying debts previously incurred in the ordinary course of business, or (in the case of a corporate user) making distributions to shareholders. Activities that, in and of themselves, do not constitute accepting and transmitting currency, funds or the value of funds, are activities that do not fit within the definition of “money transmission services” and therefore are not subject to FinCEN’s registration, reporting, and recordkeeping regulations for MSBs.8
From time to time, as your letter has indicated, it may be necessary for a user to convert Bitcoin that it has mined into a real currency or another convertible virtual currency, either because the seller of the goods or services the user wishes to purchase will not accept Bitcoin, or because the user wishes to diversify currency holdings in anticipation of future needs or for the user’s own investment purposes. In undertaking such a conversion transaction, the user is not acting as an exchanger, notwithstanding the fact that the user is accepting a real currency or another convertible virtual currency and transmitting Bitcoin, so long as the user is undertaking the transaction solely for the user’s own purposes and not as a business service performed for the benefit of another. A user’s conversion of Bitcoin into a real currency or another convertible virtual currency, therefore, does not in and of itself make the user a money transmitter.9
FinCEN therefore concludes that, under the facts you have provided, [the Company] would be a user of Bitcoin, and not an MSB, to the extent that it uses Bitcoin it has mined: (a) to pay for the purchase of goods or services, pay debts it has previously incurred (including debts to its owner(s)), or make distributions to owners; or (b) to purchase real currency or another convertible virtual currency, so long as the real currency or other convertible virtual currency is used solely in order to make payments (as set forth above) or for [the Company]’s own investment purposes. Any transfers to third parties at the behest of sellers, creditors, owners, or counterparties involved in these transactions should be closely scrutinized, as they may constitute money transmission. (See footnotes 8 and 9 above.) And of course, should [the Company] engage in any other activity constituting acceptance and transmission of either currency of legal tender or virtual currency, it may be engaged in money transmission activities that would be subject to the requirements of the BSA.
This ruling is provided in accordance with the procedures set forth at 31 CFR Part1010 Subpart G. In arriving at the conclusions in this administrative ruling, we have relied upon the accuracy and completeness of the representations you made in your communications with us. Nothing precludes FinCEN from arriving at a different conclusion or from taking other action should circumstances change or should any of the information you have provided prove inaccurate or incomplete. We reserve the right, after redacting your name and address, and similar identifying information for your clients, to publish this letter as guidance to financial institutions in accordance with our regulations.10 You have fourteen days from the date of this letter to identify any other information you believe should be redacted and the legal basis for redaction.
If you have questions about this ruling, please contact FinCEN's regulatory helpline at (703) 905-3591.
Sincerely,
//signed//
Jamal El-Hindi
Associate Director
Policy Division
1 Bank Secrecy Act Regulations – Definitions and Other Regulations Relating to Money Services Businesses, 76 FR 43585 (July 21, 2011).
2 31 CFR § 1010.100(ff).
3 31 CFR § 1010.100(ff)(5)(i)(A) and (B).
4 31 CFR § 1010.100(ff)(5)(ii).
5 FIN-2013-G001, “Application of FinCEN’s Regulations to Persons Administering, Exchanging, or Using Virtual Currencies,” March 18, 2013.
6 31 CFR § 1010.100(m).
7 The definition of “money transmitter” in FinCEN's regulations defines six sets of circumstances – variously referred to as limitations or exemptions – under which a person is not a money transmitter, despite accepting and transmitting currency, funds, or value that substitutes for currency. 31 CFR § 1010.100(ff)(5)(ii)(A)-(F).
8 However, a user wishing to purchase goods or services with Bitcoin it has mined, which pays the Bitcoin to a third party at the direction of a seller or creditor, may be engaged in money transmission. A number of older FinCEN administrative rulings, although not directly on point because they interpret an older version of the regulatory definition of MSBs, discuss situations involving persons that would have been exempted from MSB status, but for their payments to third parties not involved in the original transaction. See FIN-2008-R004 (Whether a Foreign Exchange Consultant is a Currency Dealer or Exchanger or Money Transmitter - 05/09/2008); FIN-2008-R003 (Whether a Person That is Engaged in the Business of Foreign Exchange Risk Management is a Currency Dealer or Exchanger or Money Transmitter - 05/09/2008); FIN-2008-R002 (Whether a Foreign Exchange Dealer is a Currency Dealer or Exchanger or Money Transmitter - 05/09/2008).
9 As noted in footnote 8 above, however, a user engaging in such a transaction, which pays the Bitcoin to a third party at the direction of the counterparty, may be engaged in money transmission.
10 31 CFR §§ 1010.711-717.
|
|
|
|
|
Unfortunately there may not have been enough money lost for any federal agency to take action. If TF was a board member of the Bitcoin Foundation maybe the FEDS would have gone after him too.
|
|
|
|
In fact, Bitcoin itself has been described by some U.S. officials as 'a unique form of terrorism' IIRC.
If you can cite this please do. I've never heard or read this from any US Official. The US DOJ, the US Secret Service, FinCEN, the FED, the Department of Homeland Security and others have all stated emphatically that decentralized virtual currencies hold promise and that their major concern with its use is in illicit activity such as money laundering, terrorist financing and income tax evasion. |
|
|
|
|
Dealing in cash is the best way to avoid paying taxes. Trillions in taxes are avoided by cash transactions (service industry, tips, cash payments etc).
There is no way for tax authorities to know about cash transactions. (Except when they find out you don't have a job but are now driving a yellow lambo.) People have reported on enemies for such things.
If you don't report and you get audited they may ask for an audit of your home, your assets etc? It depends on what you risk appetite of eventually getting caught. Even Madoff after 40 year finally got caught.
You can certainly write off your expenses used to mine, but you have to have some income to write it off against. So you would have to delare something. An those deductions should be larger then the standard tax deduction for your tax bracket to have any benefit.
But this is a more complex problem if you do not convert your BTC to fiat and the IRS has yet to rule on this despite the GAO and the National Taxpayer's advocate requesting the same.
|
|
|
|
|
I declare all of my BTC profits and losses on my annual income taxes each year as capital gains.
|
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
