You seem to discount BFL's role in this at nearly every turn and as this conversation is OT anyway I'm going to let it go, but will happily continue discussing it in an appropriate existing thread. Does BFL deserve a scammer tag...for instance.
Blame bfl for not delivering on time, while the whole gpu/fpga community is profiting from that, and if they will deliver, blame them for killing that community of gpu/fpga miners. It's indeed mostly a bunch of sour guys here, staring at that bitcoin mining calculator page, thinking of what could have been. Good luck with the scammer thread. |
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Just because you didn't order from them doesn't mean you're unaffected by their delays. I ordered from their competition, so I most definitely care if/when BFL ships. This effects the entire crypto economy.
For myself, I don't hate BFL, I'd just prefer they hadn't been able to capture such a huge piece of the ASIC pie with their dishonest tactics of promising what they have no chance of delivering. How does their delay effect "the entire crypto economy"? You should jump from joy at every bfl delay, so the delay from your vendor does not push you too far back behind that tenfold/whatever difficulty line. About that pie, so far there's a max. 300pcs batch at Avalon, there's a max. 1000pcs batch at bctfpga, and anyone else that wants a piece of the pie can only go to bfl. How can that be bfl's fault? Did you intend these as serious questions? I'll treat them as such, despite the fact that a couple seem self evident. First, I *AM* personally pleased that BFL is spinning it's wheels, because as you say I benefit from their failures. It does not however benefit the crypto community to have a product that would obsolete GPUs and eventually FPGAs promised for October shipping be delayed until Q1 2013. Yes, I was serious about asking on your thoughts about this. I've marked the difference in the 2 answers, economy against community btw. GPU's made CPU mining obsolete, it's just progress happening. To me it looked more like a warning to not put massive amounts of money in gpu's, and I'm glad I did not. How many have based their purchase decisions off this (mis)information. Looking back I simply cannot be convinced there was any chance whatsoever BFL could ship a working ASIC in October, but it certainly wasn't obvious in August. I don't know how many, but it has been said before, only put money in you can afford to loose. To many people only saw it as a chance to cash in quick without a single care for the crypto currency or -community. About those suggested production/delivery dates, you are absolutely right. BFL locked up pre-orders based on a fairy tale shipping date they had zero chance of achieving. This is the second time they've done this with a product launch. How much damage has been done to Avalon, BTCFPGA, and ASICMiner by this tactic? Pre-orders paid for in BTC 6 months ago? What's the real cost of a BFL Single SC to those miners?
$1299/$6/BTC = 216.5*$12.25 = $2652.13
Now that's a serious chunk of change for 60Gh, but it would've still been easily worth it if those early adopters had been the sole ASIC hashers working on 50BTC blocks. A "fuzzy" shipping date of 1/13 will make it difficult to imagine those early adopters being repaid for many months as ASICs come online from other vendors that didn't sell pre-orders so far in advance and come much closer to meeting their shipping schedules. This is the kind of stuff that lawyers salivate over.
No one paid $2652 for btc for a single, but the equivalent of $1299. Bitpay gave bfl $ for btc, so $1299 is what bfl got. If currencies going up/down would have to be compensated, would you pay up if your earlier payed btc's value would have went to $2? I don't know how Avalon and btcfpga suffered, they have more orders than they can fill atm, hence the second batches. "BFL locked up pre-orders based on a fairy tale shipping date they had zero chance of achieving." -Agreed about them fairytale dates and knowing before they would not happen, unless they had last minute major fuck-ups with those asics, but they deny or they won't tell. Locked up pre-orders/money, no, at any moment people can, and always could, step out. |
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How does their delay effect "the entire crypto economy"? You should jump from joy at every bfl delay, so the delay from your vendor does not push you too far back behind that tenfold/whatever difficulty line. About that pie, so far there's a max. 300pcs batch at Avalon, there's a max. 1000pcs batch at bctfpga, and anyone else that wants a piece of the pie can only go to bfl. How can that be bfl's fault?
actually there is more than 300, just that we are releasing smaller batch at a time to avoid back orders. soon as we start shipping we'll start the order for the next batch, our chip batch is much much greater than that Okay, I see. Thanks for clearing up. I was under the impression that the success of the 300 batch would determine if a next batch would come into production. At a competitive price. But that doesn't change the fact that the pie so far has 1300 pieces from 2 vendors and the rest is bfl's. ps fixed that quote for you. |
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Just because you didn't order from them doesn't mean you're unaffected by their delays. I ordered from their competition, so I most definitely care if/when BFL ships. This effects the entire crypto economy.
For myself, I don't hate BFL, I'd just prefer they hadn't been able to capture such a huge piece of the ASIC pie with their dishonest tactics of promising what they have no chance of delivering.
How does their delay effect "the entire crypto economy"? You should jump from joy at every bfl delay, so the delay from your vendor does not push you too far back behind that tenfold/whatever difficulty line. About that pie, so far there's a max. 300pcs batch at Avalon, there's a max. 1000pcs batch at bctfpga, and anyone else that wants a piece of the pie can only go to bfl. How can that be bfl's fault? |
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This whole thread is about a typo? Holy fuck.  Every thread turns into a venting opportunity for a bunch of sour guys that otherwise would be staring at the bitcoin mining calculator page, thinking of what could have been. |
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...... I also believe at the start BFL had nothing but a Idea, they pre-sold you a Idea and then built it. In normal circumstances that would be called a investment, but they spun it so it would be a "Pre-order". If BFL would have been past the "Idea" Phase and actually had some solid work done they would have been close to if not already shipped. If you do not believe me this is how BFL funded there new product do the math. ..............
Yet you boldly ordered a Jalapeno, and BFL cancelled it. And yet you lent a broke-ass guy who would go mining with a 12btc graphic card he could not afford and needed a loan for, 6 coins, which he would pay back of the profits, while the fine for being late on that loan (did you ever hear from him again?) was more than he could earn with it?  Math, it ain't easy. |
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1. The CEO is a convicted felon who SV is not the CEO
1.a. Is in probation/supervised release. 1 out of 30 americans is, but not the CEO of bfl
1.b. Is prohibited by the terms of his deal from doing a number of things BFL is doing, such as taking money from people. If so, he isn't doing what he shouldn't because he is not the CEO
1.c. Failed to disclose this; once discovered by 3rd parties he made a half-assed statement about "the mean government". Promised post with further details "over the weekend", never materialized.
Subjective conclusion, he has no obligation to tell anyone here anything. Don't like the company or employees, don't buy there
This was explained away on the vague theory that while convicted "he wasn't really guilty" and while the CEO "he doesn't really have anything to do with the company".
Well, he wasn't. What would satisfy you, him saying he was? Write bfl an email and ask?
2. BFL is a company that
2.a. Consistently made promises which were then not kept, such as to the time of delivery (blown in the past by 4 months +) and specifications of the items delivered (significantly larger power consumption). estimates are not promises are they?
2.b. Consistently takes money from perspective customers in exchange for products that do not actually exist. These don't constitute pre-orders, even if BFL calls them that, but loans to the company.
You do get the concept of pre-ordering don't you? If the stuff would exist, guess what, shipping it?
This was never explained other than "doing things is hard". You haven't been paying attention
3. BFL PR is a guy who
3.a. Is a loudmouth just like I am, except he makes a lot less sense, rarely has a point and also lacks tits. You make no sense at all, and you don't have balls too, plus I doubt you even have tits
I guess this pretty much settles the point. The discussion was about Sonny Vleisides not Nasser the Nameless. You're an idiot, gtfo. Nice move BFL, have a lying CEO, hope nobody notices. When somebody does notice lie a little more about it and de-CEO him w/o telling anyone. Make all sorts of spammy prwire releases, sure, but NOT anything about a new CEO, which is the absolute prime thing to report for any company. Wait a few more months, send random shill to pretend this never happened. Who knows, maybe it sticks this time. BFL needs an S for scumbag in there somewhere. Sonny Vleisides is not the CEO, now you can nag and whine on, making me think you may indeed be a woman (sort of), that doesn't change facts. |
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1. The CEO is a convicted felon who SV is not the CEO
1.a. Is in probation/supervised release. 1 out of 30 americans is, but not the CEO of bfl
1.b. Is prohibited by the terms of his deal from doing a number of things BFL is doing, such as taking money from people. If so, he isn't doing what he shouldn't because he is not the CEO
1.c. Failed to disclose this; once discovered by 3rd parties he made a half-assed statement about "the mean government". Promised post with further details "over the weekend", never materialized.
Subjective conclusion, he has no obligation to tell anyone here anything. Don't like the company or employees, don't buy there
This was explained away on the vague theory that while convicted "he wasn't really guilty" and while the CEO "he doesn't really have anything to do with the company".
Well, he wasn't. What would satisfy you, him saying he was? Write bfl an email and ask?
2. BFL is a company that
2.a. Consistently made promises which were then not kept, such as to the time of delivery (blown in the past by 4 months +) and specifications of the items delivered (significantly larger power consumption). estimates are not promises are they?
2.b. Consistently takes money from perspective customers in exchange for products that do not actually exist. These don't constitute pre-orders, even if BFL calls them that, but loans to the company.
You do get the concept of pre-ordering don't you? If the stuff would exist, guess what, shipping it?
This was never explained other than "doing things is hard". You haven't been paying attention
3. BFL PR is a guy who
3.a. Is a loudmouth just like I am, except he makes a lot less sense, rarely has a point and also lacks tits. You make no sense at all, and you don't have balls too, plus I doubt you even have tits
Dear SLok, From what I understand, "Nasser G", a Paris, France based IT consultant is implied to have been recently promoted to CEO of Butterfly Labs. "Nasser G" is employed by a bank in Paris. He has previously declined to answer questions regarding his employment on this forum. "Nasser G" was titled Chief Technical Officer in a BFL press release dated June 15. 2002. Some time ago, I made the thread: Butterfly Labs CEO 25 Million USD Mail Fraud — A Concise Summary of Evidence. Some time later, it appears that the Chief Executive (CEO/President/Director) of BFL was fired or demoted in silence, to be replaced by "Nasser G" as Chief Executive, for reasons unknown. If you or anyone else have corrections to make or new information to share, please do. The corporate structure and internal workings of BFL are no less mysterious than a black box on the moon. Which is a bit worrying, considering the circumstances. Dear Elux, From Coding in my sleep: "Sonny Chris Vleisides is not the CEO, Chris Vleisides (his stepfather) is the President (as opposed to his natural father, James Ray Houston, who was listed on the indictment) and Nasser Ghoseiri is the CEO – the confusion is understandable what with all the similar names, step and biological fathers and BFL’s seeming hatred of titles. Sonny is an upper-level executive within the company, but he’s not the absolute head, nor is his stepfather. Even if he were the CEO, the CEO doesn’t have the ability to arbitrarily run away with much of anything. Like most incorporated entities they have a board of directors. The CEO certainly has a lot of sway with the board, but not enough to take the money and run." http://codinginmysleep.com/interview-with-sonny-vleisides/I hope this eased your worries a bit. If not, sorry I could not be of any help. @ Frizz23, or bitsnpieces, or Cpt. Nemo, or BFL_Lab_Rat, or whatever dress you are wearing tonight, nobody pays me, and the signature is a lottery ticket, but you already knew that. At least 3 of your identities complained about those signatures sofar, a minority I know, but it should have leaked through a bit to the rest of them. |
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1. The CEO is a convicted felon who SV is not the CEO
1.a. Is in probation/supervised release. 1 out of 30 americans is, but not the CEO of bfl
1.b. Is prohibited by the terms of his deal from doing a number of things BFL is doing, such as taking money from people. If so, he isn't doing what he shouldn't because he is not the CEO
1.c. Failed to disclose this; once discovered by 3rd parties he made a half-assed statement about "the mean government". Promised post with further details "over the weekend", never materialized.
Subjective conclusion, he has no obligation to tell anyone here anything. Don't like the company or employees, don't buy there
This was explained away on the vague theory that while convicted "he wasn't really guilty" and while the CEO "he doesn't really have anything to do with the company".
Well, he wasn't. What would satisfy you, him saying he was? Write bfl an email and ask?
2. BFL is a company that
2.a. Consistently made promises which were then not kept, such as to the time of delivery (blown in the past by 4 months +) and specifications of the items delivered (significantly larger power consumption). estimates are not promises are they?
2.b. Consistently takes money from perspective customers in exchange for products that do not actually exist. These don't constitute pre-orders, even if BFL calls them that, but loans to the company.
You do get the concept of pre-ordering don't you? If the stuff would exist, guess what, shipping it?
This was never explained other than "doing things is hard". You haven't been paying attention
3. BFL PR is a guy who
3.a. Is a loudmouth just like I am, except he makes a lot less sense, rarely has a point and also lacks tits. You make no sense at all, and you don't have balls too, plus I doubt you even have tits
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This user is currently ignored. Huh? |
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I saw the document he posted. Doesn't guarantee it's authenticity, but he did post a pic of a doc that was either the real deal or a really good fake.
That was the answer from bfl at the ag that was sent through to him. I'm asking for the complaint letter he sent to that ag, and the ag's answer HE got. |
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meaningless bullshit removed
Here's the actual list: 1. The CEO is a convicted felon who 1.a. Is in probation/supervised release. 1.b. Is prohibited by the terms of his deal from doing a number of things BFL is doing, such as taking money from people. 1.c. Failed to disclose this; once discovered by 3rd parties he made a half-assed statement about "the mean government". Promised post with further details "over the weekend", never materialized. This was explained away on the vague theory that while convicted "he wasn't really guilty" and while the CEO "he doesn't really have anything to do with the company". 2. BFL is a company that 2.a. Consistently made promises which were then not kept, such as to the time of delivery (blown in the past by 4 months +) and specifications of the items delivered (significantly larger power consumption). 2.b. Consistently takes money from perspective customers in exchange for products that do not actually exist. These don't constitute pre-orders, even if BFL calls them that, but loans to the company. <----- This is what people should really be pissed about, and its illegal
This was never explained other than "doing things is hard". 3. BFL PR is a guy who 3.a. Is a loudmouth just like I am, except he makes a lot less sense, rarely has a point and also lacks tits. Enjoy. (And yes, my personal opinion is that dud run = bankruptcy.) I agree with you, wow that was hard to say. I called this months ago... but I was a fud flinger. Now I just want to go with told you so.  People worried about the FTC call them, they will then connect you to the Attorney General's office file your complaint get real info. It is the only way BFL will release information which is sad. Months ago? Was that when BFL, not you, cancelled you whopping order for 1, yes 1, Jalapeno? So much to your regret, that ever since you try to convince people with this GA fud, with that BFL answer to that AG, the letter which you showed so proudly, but actually showed nothing of any importance at all, just BFL info anyone already knew? That answer, to YOUR LETTER TO THAT AG THAT YOU WILL NOT SHOW HERE just like that letter from the AG DIRECTED AT YOU, after several requests, because it would prove that you actually have nothing? Posted both of them.... Where have you been? The fact that they were showing fake pics.. did that pass you to? Stop drinking so much BFL koolaid its bad for your teeth. You did not, I requested it several times in that topic, but can you be so kind and show me the link to them? And please stop that koolaid joke, it has a beard by now. |
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Nothing + Nothing still equals Nothing.
People are pissed off at BFL, deal with it. People got their hopes up.
People have that right to be pissed off about BFL, hell I'm pissed off about BFL, but I'm not spreading fud or plain lies like bitcoininv or the guy he quoted. |
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meaningless bullshit removed
Here's the actual list: 1. The CEO is a convicted felon who 1.a. Is in probation/supervised release. 1.b. Is prohibited by the terms of his deal from doing a number of things BFL is doing, such as taking money from people. 1.c. Failed to disclose this; once discovered by 3rd parties he made a half-assed statement about "the mean government". Promised post with further details "over the weekend", never materialized. This was explained away on the vague theory that while convicted "he wasn't really guilty" and while the CEO "he doesn't really have anything to do with the company". 2. BFL is a company that 2.a. Consistently made promises which were then not kept, such as to the time of delivery (blown in the past by 4 months +) and specifications of the items delivered (significantly larger power consumption). 2.b. Consistently takes money from perspective customers in exchange for products that do not actually exist. These don't constitute pre-orders, even if BFL calls them that, but loans to the company. <----- This is what people should really be pissed about, and its illegal
This was never explained other than "doing things is hard". 3. BFL PR is a guy who 3.a. Is a loudmouth just like I am, except he makes a lot less sense, rarely has a point and also lacks tits. Enjoy. (And yes, my personal opinion is that dud run = bankruptcy.) I agree with you, wow that was hard to say. I called this months ago... but I was a fud flinger. Now I just want to go with told you so. People worried about the FTC call them, they will then connect you to the Attorney General's office file your complaint get real info. It is the only way BFL will release information which is sad. Months ago? Was that when BFL, not you, cancelled you whopping order for 1, yes 1, Jalapeno? So much to your regret, that ever since you try to convince people with this GA fud, with that BFL answer to that AG, the letter which you showed so proudly, but actually showed nothing of any importance at all, just BFL info anyone already knew? That answer, to YOUR LETTER TO THAT AG THAT YOU WILL NOT SHOW HERE just like that letter from the AG DIRECTED AT YOU, after several requests, because it would prove that you actually have nothing? |
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WoW, sorry I ain't "that stupid" to buy a BFL ASIC in the first place, so I didn't know that payments went only thru bitpay.  So if BFL refunds everyone right now they will get almost 1/2 of their bitcoins. Pretty clever scam - lie till the price goes up, then return 1/2 the bitcoins.  Everyone knew that bitcoin price was going up. Damn they are smarter than I thought. I wish I had come up with the ASIC scheme Man you are retarded, even my 5-year old daughter is brighter and smarter than you. Don't bother to respond, I'm pretty sure you will never get it. |
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Well I am not 5y old so I think they can play it in two ways. Return the exact amount of $ to the people who payed in $ and return the exact amount BTC to the people who payed in BTC, which would be fair. -or- Return the exact amount of $ to the people who payed in $ end return the the amount in BTC to people who payed in BTC but according to today prices not the number of bitcoins they payed. Example: Back then the price was around 8$ per BTC. I payed 100BTC x 8$ =800$ so I gave them 800$, and now they return to me my 800$ / 12$ = 66.6BTC and they give me only 66.6BTC. Don't you people know how scams work?  Man are you that stupid or do you just play it? SC prices are set in $, not btc! If you want a Single you pay $1387 (incl. internat. ship) or the equivalent of that amount in btc, at the rate the $/btc is at that moment. BFL gets your btc via bitpay which immediately converts the btc to $1387 that goes to bfl's account. If you cancel you get $1387 back, or the equivalent of that amount in btc at the rate it is at the moment of a refund. If the btc was $693.50 worth at the canceling, you would get 2 btc, total value of those 2 btc = $1387. You want to spend $1387 in btc and get back $2000 in btc later, you must be joking, or you don't know what scammer means. |
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Here is a quote from BFL's admin: While I can't give a hard date and say "absolutely" this is the date, it looks like the week of the 11th, source: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/437-asic-update-26-november-2012-a.htmlInterestingly, since the first per-orders the price of BTC went almost double. So will BFL return full refunds or "full refunds" I am expecting some comment from all who opposed me, blamed that im working for someone, and were defending BFL. The btc payed were the equivalent of the price of the units in $. Refunds are payed at wish in $ or btc, at an equivalent of the actual exchange rate. Jeezzzz, a 5 year old would understand that. So, fail again? |
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We're supposed to listen to the judgement of someone that hasn't even mastered "copy and paste"?
Yes, because he told you so, and was right!  Huh??? Quote: In my personal opinion there is something very stinky about BFL: No certain delivery dates. ----------- no asic vendor gave, besides this was known when you posted, so a useless comment No pictures or schemes or anything. --------- fail point, pictures shown, if you expect to get schematics, dream on! Very limited information (actually there is no information on the ASICs). ------------ Too basic complaint. What do you want to know? No one answers their phone. ------------ How many times have you called? I bet never. They answer your e-mail within 2-3 weeks. ------------ utter lie, I had email exchanges with answers between 2 minutes to 2 days at the august peak periods All their answers are with a maybe or possibly. ---------- again, what are you asking? I never got it why are BITCOIN payments preferred. ---------- They are not, but considering it's all about bitcoins, I wouldn't mind if they were The broke the law of e-bay - 2 months to appeal and ask for a refund with their 2 to 4 to 6 months delivery - maybe. --------- fail, bfl does not sell on ebay, some bloke sells his places in line They are a business registered in Massachusetts on the name of some Mexican woman. ------------- fail, fud from months back. They are playing with millions yet their website is made with WordPress. -------------- So? Up to today no one has either seen, touched or heard their ASICs. (even remotely) ---------- Not heard of their asics? Are you deaf? Do you read magazines, follow more vendors? In short, utter fail attempt to score with nothing. Again. |
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You should maybe re-read that thread. Guy gave invalid order number, gave invalid email address, said "sorry typo in order number", does not give right order number or email, just says "satisfied with production update" that was posted 8 hours before he asked for a refund, and doesn't want to cancel anymore, and purrs like a kitten since. Or was it asshamster. |
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Wasn't it one block solved per 10 minutes, so you could count back, 6 per hour, 24x6 a day = 144 so it will be in the last thousand? You can check the transaction at http://blockchain.info/ |
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