If this was all raw components, at the current past-due state of my order... This is what I would expect.

2x back-planes, 2x RaspberyPi's, 2x LCD-Displays, 2x PSU's that could run 5 boards each, 10x hashing-boards, and the custom wires to connect things.
(I have network-cables, standard USB cables with mini-connections and such.)

Removed from the shipping, would be the following...
Tower cases
Cooling Fans
Mounting Racks
Mounting Screws/hardware
Assembly-labor

Thus, a full "stripped-down" DIY kit. With compensation for the dually-promised missed shipping dates, MPP, removed components and assembly.

My review was focused on the hardware anyways, not the assembled unit. (Which I would have also disassembled to taste, anyways.)

My order is #968 December 10th
(Promised shipped by FEB, MAR, and now APR.)

I accept that the unit will not be held to any "assembly warranty", but do still expect the rest of the "manufacturing warranty". I will consider the MPP and compensated hardware, as part of that "manufacturing warranty" coverage also. With 5x boards running as 1.2THs in turbo, and the promised 1.5THs for the original late shipment, I feel the 10x boards, which would run at only 2.0THs in non-turbo mode, would place this order in fair standing.

However, If this is not agreeable, I will wait longer for that upgraded 2.4THs "next unit-size up", with the newly designed boards, or standard compensation at the time of the actual shipment of my miner.

Consider this my signed agreement.
Jason DAngelo (Forum member: ISAWHIM)
www.isawhim.com (isawhim at gmail dot com)

P.S. You can contact me through e-mail or through the forums PM system.

Then go mine an x11 coin... (Seems like one a week now, and soon one a day will appear. If it works for you, then join that party.)

Not all ASIC's are from China, most ship in days and arrive in a week. Sounds like you just have crappy China distributors. Oh, and China to China shipping only takes a week. There are now over 20 decent farms, and seven major ones, with several thousands of ASIC's in them.

Ebay is not a reliable source of anything. As for your ignorance to the GPU's manufactured, and GPU sales, and those scrypts being the "future". Well, I'll just let that future speak for itself. At the moment, it is saying "Yea right". They are all experimental scrypts, which still favor NEW GPU's. So that defeats the whole purpose of the fight. Those promoting it are promoting their own death. They are the ones with old-hardware farms that will just be beat-out by new hardware-farms. The only reason it looks like they are remotely winning, is because NO ONE IS BUILDING NEW HARDWARE FARMS. (How ironic... Invent a stupid scrypt, announce it keeps away snakes, they look around, don't see snakes. Then everyone realizes there are no snakes in Ireland.)

So you degrade the card to do nothing, increase the number for hashes, then say... Look, it is running cooler. Yea, because it is doing less. (While the devs have the unhindered programs that actually run 100% on the machines in there farms, while they cash-out on you, running at 80%.)

Work = Power... if it pulls less power, it is doing less. Period. Doesn't matter what number you fictitiously create to measure it. In the end, it still pulls more power than any ASIC, and THAT is what you are paying for every month. That is why they will die as mining tools in the future. So essentially turning them into a half-assed ASIC is actually defeating the purpose. It costs less to produce that hash, so you sell for less. You have saved nothing. You could have sold that card and made more to buy a real ASIC, that actually saves you money to operate.

But I digress.

You obviously have no idea what the hell you are talking about. You buy crap from China in bulk.

The KGW is formulated backwards, and DGW is equally as screwed-up. They both favor hoppers and large-hashing-miners, while screwing the steady miners. That is why they keep pushing it, because THEY HAVE FARMS that take advantage of those exploits. Even though having KGW and DGW are better than not having it at all. (It just makes them more efficient at the rape.) Not to mention, each set of "lucky hashes", makes the coin think the hash-rate just shot up, so it adjusts up and stays up when it should not be up in the first place.

What the coin is made of, in a few months, will not even matter, unless it keeps miners on it steady. Once there is a market, the market will be the biggest determining factor of growth, unless the miners all leave. If they leave then there becomes an abundance of coins in fewer miners hands, and they can easily cash-out for gross gains. If they get raped by a farm, then only that one person can cash-out for gross gains, against us and the market, keeping miners off the coin.

The coin needs to be distributed across as many hands as possible, as borderline as possible, with a greater volume being held for futures. While the new coins are not spread so thin, that they can not compete with the volume of held coins, and all become losses. That is why the super-halving by difficulty makes it impossible to keep-up, with the majority already being held in the future. (Now throw halving on top of that, and reward manipulation that only favors those who held for the future, and you get sudden death.)

Technically, the rewards should start small, and get larger with more miners, but not so large that the more miners have the same as those few who mined early. Also not so small that they could never actually make a gain on a sale, without grossly over-rewarding those who raped the coin in the early days.

Unfortunately, there are not many hands here, or a decent supportive market, due to the premine and unproven statements from anonymous strangers who intended to manipulate MINERS earnings, as well as the MARKETS earnings. We already have a mining manipulator, it is called difficulty adjustments and halving. We already have market manipulators, they are called people and bots. What we don't have a lot of, at the moment, is trust. That is the only thing that builds a market. Otherwise you just another coin, created by anyone, with any purpose and no direction we can actually follow. People hide for a reason. The intentions are becoming clearer as assumptions rise, since that is all anyone has, and all that is offered.

It's this simple... Do what is needed, or the coin dies. Don't do what is actually needed, and it dies faster. Do what you want, and you can swim in your coins alone, all day long.

So far, they have chosen to "Do what is needed."...

I am satisfied with that. It already drove-off most of those who never had any intentions of sticking around past the first pump. We can all move forward now. That has come and gone. Would you rather it happened a month from now, and left you stuck with more that could not be sold. At the moment, the diff is low enough that you can earn back any losses in a few days. (Well, unless another hired farm is pointed at the coin, blasting the diff up into oblivion again, which will boot all the miners back off the coin. Unless our steady volume is higher than the farms volume.)

I didn't say they were dead. (Though, in time, they will be. I said GPU sales were shit, and decaying. Unless you count people buying old, soon to be dead, GPU's from ebay. There have been hundreds of millions of ASIC's made, and it will soon be billions now. Most in China, which is why China blew the market up. Only a few million GPU's, most still sitting on shelves or in warehouses.)

My reply was about "Hurry and save us from hoppers and dumpers, switch to x11 and DGW"... Which x11 or DGW does not do crap for. The coins that use it are being dumped, just like any other coin, and have all been pumped, just like any other coin. Hoppers left, and are leaving steady miners holding the bags and the overly-high diffs that reward little. When the diff drops, thus the reward has eventually settled-in, and the price is nice and high still, they mine for a few blocks until the diff rockets, cash-out, and leave again. (Only now they have other x11 coins to hop to. The more you make, the more they hop.)

They didn't hop before because the "tuning" for x11 is not the same for scrypt, and there are only a limited few who the x11 even works for. Thus, the decaying miners on those coins, as they spread the miner-base across, 2, 3, 4, 10, 100 new coins.

But anyways... Those coins too are being manipulated. All coins are.

The complaint I had about AIR, was that they were manipulating AIR to manipulate AIR for gains. When they said they were going to be getting GAINS from trading OTHER COINS, to build the pool for AIR. However, it seems like they were just taking gains from AIR to put into AIR, which is an endless battle. Because you can't BUY all the old air, plus all the new air coming in, to manipulate it UP, by buying only SOME of the old AIR at the top.

The only way to make it rise, is by adding NEW BTC to the BUYING list. Otherwise you just flat-line it, as the exchange takes fractions of your trade-supply. Until you have zero spread and can not trade up or down anymore. (Add that to the people who had no intention of investing, and have permanently removed BTC, and you get a flatline that levels down. THUS, you need marketing to have a MARKET to manipulate. There is no MARKET to manipulate yet. They were just manipulating US. We are not the market.)

I don't care if you are an economic genius... (Geniuses are not always right, or successful, or good at making money. Idiots can make money.) You need more than bots and formulas and your own house to play in, to make money. You have to step outside and work.

They have agreed to focus on what is needed next. Let them do that. Until then, let the market do what the market does. At the moment, like all the other markets that are not being artificially pumped, that thing being done is falling. (A result of impatient people selling themselves short, and new investors getting great deals to buy-in where they can't mine.)

You are an idiot... It is NOT the existing miners dumping. x11 doesn't do shit! All x11 coins are getting dumped too... show me one coin "rising", that isn't a pump.

Go take your steam-engine technology and mine coal to power you shrinking market of GPU-miners. You want to take this coin down to CPU-only style coins? How well are those doing? Oh yea, they all pumped, dumped and died.

You know why LTC is still rising, because it is ASIC friendly. You know why BTC went up 10x again... Oh yea, because it was ASIC friendly. Why do you think everyone is dumping? To get more ASIC's.

Not sure if you noticed, but GPU sales are shit right now. They are over-priced, power-hungry, expensive to operate, and killing coins. Why do you think they mine and dump.. to pay bills. You know what x11 will be? 10,000 new clone-coins. Take your miners available now, and divide that by 10,000. How many does that leave mining each new coin? Oh yea, and they will hop too, and dump. Just like they are doing now to the x11 coins that have begun being cloned.

You want to keep the coins limited, then mine them, and buy more. The wales have all dumped, there is no-where for this coin to go, except up.

I offered to buy every single coin, even the entire premine. (Not at a price you would have liked, but I had it up for days.) I am still mining it.

You want out... take the loss and cash-out. The sooner you are out, the sooner the price goes up. You want it higher to cash out, screw you. Hold it like an investor. That was the purpose of the coin. Everyone treated it like a pump-n-dump, and if you are bitching, then you are one of those dumpers. I'll am sorry your plan was thwarted and you didn't get a chance to dump at 0.0020, or 0.0019, or 0.0018... 0.0003... If you are holding to invest, then you wouldn't care that it is lower, you would be happy, and buying more, like me.

If you were that hard-up for cash, like I was just recently, you take the loss. You want a pump and dump, then go trade any other coin. Why didn't you cash-out and get DRK? It's just flying up the charts! (That was irony, because it isn't, it is being pumped and dumped like the rest.)

When will you see a big return? When BTC and LTC rise in a big hike... That is the only time any of these coins have real returns. Until that happens, everyone is just swapping debt, playing with the same $1000 in every coin. Trading it up and down until someone cashes-out permanently, and then the price drops permanently, everyone then trading the same $500 up and down, until some of that is permanently removed.

You want x11, then you should be mining an x11 coin. Don't force that toxic shit down our throats.

This thread will loose like 200 pages if they make Phinn remove all his posts.

That has to be worth more than 20BTC.

Another 5BTC to cover Clenell's posts, and this whole thread can be seen in like five pages. xD (Clenell should have brought Phinn to AMT.)

You know, it would have cost you -1/10000000th of that to get me there (I was willing to defer my miner until I left your company.)... assembling even... You offered, I agreed, you replied as if it seemed possible, then silence... lol.

Making room for the pineapple? (You typed that with your chub... didn't you. xD Don't lie!)

So... You going to get a miner with that BTC, or just use that to off-set come of your lost/stolen BTC from your past?

Hope you donate some to your cancer organization thing.

P.S. While you are there... Assemble some miners! (Since they never replied back to me.)

"Doing less"... it was hashing faster, but that is not "scrypt hash", it is doing the other hash faster, because that does less, so it calculates with different results. Takes less time to do it. But anyways, that would be like saying sha256 is "faster" because the hash-rate is measured differently. It isn't any faster, just different. My hash-rates started out fast, then slowed down to a crawl, then it shut down two cards and the third one just popped. The GPU is burnt-up with a brown hole on one corner, just off-center.

Maybe they are using one of the scrypts from them. I don't know what vert uses. However I only got into one block, before it fried. Not sure which scrypt it was, but it didn't appear to heat up my other cards, just my powercolor 7970's. I don't have time to get into troubleshooting, or re-configuring all my tuned miners for more "special coins". These cards will have a new home anyways, soon. What I have left. (Powercolors are about 80% of my cards.)

Thanks for checking-up... But I am sorry. This just isn't for me now. Too much of a risk and hassle coin.

Too many changes, too fast, without consideration to even ask... "Hey, guys doing the money-draining work, and holding the majority of investment... What do you think about us doing this..."

Just wake-up and poof, reward halved and decaying earnings on top of decaying returns from mining growth, and falling prices. That is five negatives in a row, and no positives. I re-evaluated the situation, and made a final determination that I can no longer support the cause. Apparently, I am not the only one with that belief.

I was on the settings from the darkcoin settings, took half an hour to even get it to function, then it ran for about ten minutes and popped. Two others showed as overheating but they were not. Now they hash lower than before and the other one is just dead. It's not just me. Google it.

I wasn't even at any decent speeds running.

Yea, it was my card... And all the other cards that I keep now reading about getting fried, after searching to find out why mine fried.

That is running cooler because it is doing less. Run scrypt cooler and it does less. Sorry, but it is over. Those who can mine, might, those who can't, will just avoid it. It is only GPU friendly to the cards it works on.

Not taking that risk on more cards. They run fine on scrypt.

Ok, well, this pulls my miners off the coin...

x11 just killed one of my GPU's trying to get it setup for this coin's future multi-scrypt, using darkcoin. That just put me $400+ in the hole.

Now I know why dark and hiro are tanking. They only work on a hand-full of miners until the miners die.

Seriously, these are your role-models for this coins future?

But how will we know it is the "updated" version... if it does not indicate it.

So... It isn't up yet, or it is?

P.S. You can alter the sub-version, it should not impact anything internally... Thus all the decimal places and the sub-version "title text"...

Version: v0.8.6.2-gda10b75-beta
New version: v0.8.6.2-gda10b75-charlie or gamma (That should not have any impact on anything internal)

Remember, not every user reads these forums... posting "new update" but not changing the version, makes them think they already have the new version.

Difficulty down to 10.498046875 (688K), so solo-mining is possible again.

That makes no sense... Why would you NOT incrament the version number on such a major change, or even a minor change?

At-least append a note or something to indicate that the download is "not the old version"... The purpose for version numbers is to indicate a change forward. The purpose for a major version change is to stress the importance of "need to update".

If this is a needed update, it needs a new major version number. (Especially if it has any checkpoints and modifications to reward.)

This is almost more disturbing than the actual update itself.

AIR is now down to 0.001061 BTC/AIR, which is about $0.599465 USD per AIR. (@ $565 USD/BTC)

Time to buy those discounted coins. (BTC is on another rise. Possible market flip coming. Time for the run of the bulls.)

Hope you guys are going to promote this on the campus... To start.

Between gambling on home-games there and beer-pong betting... I am sure this coin could take a turn for the best, to start.

AIRcoin -> Beer-pong -> Home-Games -> Porn -> Tutoring -> Frat-Parties -> Hookah's

It seems so natural... They all need AIR!

How long can you survive without AIR... Don't be that guy who doesn't have enough AIR to survive... Take a breadth of fresh AIR, you can thank me later! (Play on words)

Where is the update?

Says it is below the announcement... But it is not...

Website still has the old version number 0.8.6.2... Is the updated file there? Or did you forget to update the version number again?

Hash-rate is dropping, but I have not found a coin in almost 24 hours. (At this hash-rate, I should have found at-least one by now. Six normally on this rig.)

Diff is only 11.6729736328125 (765K)

Guess I should pull this last miner too. Hope everything gets sorted.

Sounds like a plan, let me move my sell-spot lower first...

I'll throw 6 BTC worth of AIR volume just below yours. It will be a race to the bottom!

Why don't YOU throw 5-6 BTC at the exchange... It would put the price right where it was, and people would feel way safer as they watch someone-else besides them get the BTC. Plus, market-cap is a useless statistic. 2,500,000 of that cap is not real. (Earned)

Take the total coins in existence... 2,593,558
Now remove the "premine coins"... 2,500,000
This is what is in "earned coins"... 93,558

Now take all the BTC available to "purchase that debt/earning"... 4.85254219 BTC
Now divide that "value/worth" by the total "earned coins"... 4.85254219 BTC / 93,558 AIR = 0.0000518666 BTC/AIR
Now translate that into dollars... @ $600/BTC = $0.03111996 per AIR (This is the value of AIR, based on supply/demand.)

All the coins earned (93,558 AIR) are worth (@$600/BTC @ 4.85254219 BTC = $2911.525314 USD)

This is if everyone cashed out, and I purchased all the coins myself. Excluding the DEVs. Not everyone would get the same average value, obviously. Though, in all fairness, all coins are not worth the same value. The harder coins are worth more, the easier obtained coins are worth less. There is still a lot of easily obtained coins to "get rid of". Once those are gone, then it is "your turn". Or you could always find another method of exchange. Nobody is forcing you to sell at any price, or use the exchange. Buy on the exchange, and sell off the exchange. Poof, instant non-damaging sale. If you are cashing-out, and complaining about not being able to cash-out. You are not INVESTING. You are leaving or attempting to TRADE for value. (To trade for value is to take advantage of another's loss, for your own potential gains.)

(Adding another 4-5 BTC would only double that, but would barely impact the value of the "market cap" of 2,593,558 coins.)

The only solution is to get more interest in the coin, so more people are interested in BUYING for INVESTMENT. (New BTC "demand")

It has only been a week on the exchange. Nothing is stopping you from selling it anywhere. Complaining about people not buying your coins is like yelling at the television for your football team to win. That is you, not doing anything to give your holdings value. You are not even allowing the team time to get value added to the coin.

If you want to do nothing to increase your value, then don't expect it to rise for you. (Though, it might, it will not be by anything you have done. You will just be leaching off the efforts of others. I have no sympathy for people in that situation. Sit back and enjoy the ride, where-ever it takes you. Since you have no intention of driving. That, or turn over your coins to the AIR-team directly, and see if they can flip your coins for you, for a cut of the funds. Oh, that's right YOU want to NOT-CONTROL YOUR coins... Then, keep doing what you do.)

Reduced reward does nothing for market-value, moving forward, if there are never any new BTC supply coming in. (Spending BTC that was already here, which was "captured", adding it back to the market, has no impact. Old coins + new coins = total coins. The total supply keeps growing, even if you cut reward down to 0.00001 per coin. You would NEVER be able to keep-up with just recycling captured BTC. That eventually makes those flat-lines you see in a graph. Everyone trading back and forth until no-one can trade for a gain.)

Did you add the support signature to your profile? I am sure that does not require much effort, and has a great silent effortless potential to gain some interest for you INVESTMENT. (PM me, and I will link you to the original post with the COPY/PASTE code to add. Looks like my signature below, but you can change it to taste.)

The bold one is mine... It's there to discourage a super-cash-out!

Did anyone notice on the photo taken at AMT, from the ebay guy... There was a pad under the magazine with an itemized list. Looks like it is showing the production value of the miner at about $1400.00 which would make sense. (That might be why the other guys are so quick to give up-to 50% to 100% more hashing-power as part of MPP. Even then, they are still in the green.)

Even with added overhead, if labor and other issues were not accounted for, the loss would be minimal. Not only that, but it would be cheaper than wasting money on advertising, by the word-of-mouth from the clients. (Especially false advertising that no-one actually sees, or cares about... Like friends on facebook, myspace, email-spam or linked-in crap. Bots look like bots, and are ignored anyways.)

There is so much uncaptured flip-potential here, not being taken advantage of. Instead, the general perception is that we are being taken advantage of. (Pulling the "well, it's legal", crap. Or the silent treatment, or the flat-out deceptive responses. "We are shipping miners"... They are, just not the 1.2THs miners. I have not gotten a single email from AMT, except the one Josh sent, in response to hiring me. Never got that follow-up email to even say, "Hey sorry, we don't think we can do this.")

It is not that I don't believe they won't deliver. I just wish they honored one thing, that was said. No replies when promised, even directly. No updates about AMT's situation. Not even a correction to the previously updated and promised delivery dates.

I am now in complete agreement with "discouraging others from investing in AMT's 1.2THs to 3.4THs miners", until something is done to clarify the situation. (Which would include any of the promised updates, and delivery of MPP honored miners, and a clear "refund policy". Even if that only includes updating our accounts to reflect when a refund is "possible", and contact information specific to refunds, where an automated system would fail.)

Those are not demands. That is just what I would need, to stop discouragement of future investors. Because at the moment, we are all investors providing loans. Yet treated not as investors, share-holders, or as "valuable customers". This is now to the point of gross-neglect.

Everyone can just mine right to my wallet, I will split everything equally. Easy, see! No shares needed!

Yea, many do not know what it actually takes to run a full service. I watched a few people try to do this from home, with "high speed" internet, and they all just fail miserably. (Even just trying to run a simple web-server. They don't realize downloading is fast, uploading is buffered to hell and limited. Not to mention the limited constant connections that are required.)

That is why I didn't hesitate to offer you coins. (I run web-hosting, so I know that game. Not from my house.)

I noticed an oddity in the block explorer...


To simplify that... (Reversed the order to reflect actual passing time. Top to bottom.)

Block 24637 found at 05:00:47
Block 24638 found at 05:01:52 (Ok, about 1 minute later, good luck)
Block 24639 found at 05:06:59 (Ok, about 4 minutes later, bad luck)
Block 24640 found at 05:10:17 (Ok, about 3 minutes later, bad luck still)
Block 24641 found at 05:10:12 (Um, -05 sec! That's fast, 24641 was found before 24640!)
Block 24642 found at 05:10:36 (Ok, about 24-19 sec later, great luck!)
Block 24643 found at 05:10:11 (Holy shit! -25 sec earlier! Even before block 24640!)

I thought the clocks demand forward-only time, rejecting times that are off-set improperly. Or does this ignore the seconds?

P.S. That's a hell of a lot of luck all at once. Not sure what impact negative values has on the gravity-well adjustments.

Another sample...

Um, it's 50% + 1%...

But you are right... time to cash-out and get out, or muster-up and catch the discounted coins that are listed on the sell-order list.

I got my BTC ready and an order set to buy 2,000,000 AIR... Also got an order in to sell at 0.1 BTC/AIR... Lets fly!