Not really the best visual of the buy/ask side. Look at how thin the sell side is, relative to the buy.  |
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 Interesting depth chart. Sell orders real thin for the volume. The red goes up to 93000 sats and is only about 1000BTC up to there. Now I'm just wondering how low will it go before I can buy some Lisk. Traders are still cashing out their profit from ICO. Yeah, tough call. I bought back in a bit to be safe. Still got my panic/flash crash buy orders in place just in case, but 2.5 times ICO price seems a decent entry point too. To put in perspective the market's likelyhood of seeing higher prices, 1000 BTC would move ETH from .0275 to .0283. And that happens in seconds. Whether or not Lisk is comparable to ETH, just a fraction of the speculative action.... would be nice for anyone entering now. the question is more who gonna put 1000 btc after that such desperate fail. they only proven they're incapability to make successful coin Desperate fail? I don't get how people can talk negatively about being up 2.5-3 times the ICO price and the order book looking thin on the sell side. EVERYONE who got in the ICO did well, very very well. |
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Interesting depth chart. Sell orders real thin for the volume. The red goes up to 93000 sats and is only about 1000BTC up to there. Not sure what that means. LISK volume is 15,500 BTC The ICO raised around 14,000 BTC? Wonder if that volume is a bit falsified AND that there is a seller using a bot to sell off the chart so to speak. Anyway, the volume is a very nice sign. Will be curious how she plays out. |
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Guys, be careful logging in. Use your bookmarked link and take the necessary precautions.
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At the end, Waves would get 15000 BTC.
Or even beyond  This has to be some kind of record, right? What's the highest ICO funding an altcoin has received? DAO 155M
Top-20 Successful ICO http://www.xbt.money/top-20-successful-ico-crowdsales/Waves is already on top-6 and probably will climb up to No3  and TheDAO will be #1 no matter what I think the DAO will always be thought of as somewhat different of an ICO for one main reason: 1. You can pull your DAO out as ETH again. Takes a few weeks I think but you can, so, the numbers are a bit distorted. If the DAO started to tank, just go back to ETH. Due to this, the DAO might always have an "*" next to it. In the next 5 years we are probably going to see a 1 Billion Dollar ICO imo. We know not what is coming. ("Dahn dahn dahn...." Sound effects) |
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Why do I have less LISKs now than 2weeks ago?  What did I miss? Same with many (me too), some went up too though. The early numbers were estimations. Basically people who got in very early probably had their totals adjusted up and vice versa. |
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WooHoo!!! 100002 BTC reached, that's a pretty exciting figure, isn't it? Still 7 days to go that means 15k is clearly in the picture & the chances of surpassing LISK ICO Amount 14,052.4971 BTC are very strong. Big Whales might make an entry in the last 2 days or so. I noticed that the amount of Waves you get now is sooooo low compared to a few weeks ago. I am not sure we raise another 4k in BTC. What is it, 25% or so now? Would be happy though, sure. |
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It says less than 2 hours, isn't it tomorrow sometime? |
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This is really worth watching if anyone has not seen it. It is a Q&A With Sasha Ivanov - Creator Of The Waves Platform on the "Cryptocurrency Market" Youtube channel (With Tai Zen and Leon Fu Dot Com). Quite lengthy and information filled. Some pretty challenging questions were asked. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eiv93mM_rE |
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Hope bittrex so i could sell all and buy DAO ico(130 millions).
I think 90% of lisk holder will dump to buy DAO.
Maybe i will buy later lisk, but priority is DAO now.
It won't make too much sense to dump Lisk to buy DAO. DAO is very expensive now and will become more expensive every day. The marketcap is very high ($162 Mio) and even if it's a very interesting and innovative idea, it's safe to say: There will be problems. Why? There is a conflict of interest in the concept. Imagine you have a lot of DAO and most DAO-holders also have a lot of ETH. There is a proposal you believe would be a good decision, but you know: If you a majority would vote for it, DAO will invest and that means: sell. DAO will sell ETH or will give ETH to a project to invest in it. That means it will lose Marketcap until there is a return. ETH will most likely also go down because ppl will anticipate sell pressure if a proposal goes through. How many will vote for a longterm-decision that still involves a lot of risk and take the loss in short-term because DAO needs to sell? And why should DAO be worth more on the exchange than the money it has? Because they will make a lot of money? Let's say they start with $180 Mio and DAO invests in a project, like slock.it or whatever. And let's say DAO invests $10 Mio. How much time will it take to make profit? And will there be profit? And even if, will it be that much profit to justify prices above a current marketcap? The question in DAO is: Who will definitely benefit? Those who will get money from DAO. That's safe. Nothing else is safe. Plus: Why should I give my money to an "institution" in which a majority will decide - or those with the biggest voting power? I like it more to make my own research, my own analysis and my own decisions. I don't trust a majority and I don't trust groups with a lot of power. And like I said above: The majority will always have to face a conflict of interest between short-term-loss and possible long-term-profit - which will always involve the risk that there won't be any profit but a loss. Conclusion: In my opinion DAO is very interesting and will be interesting to watch. There will be much to learn out of it. But out of investor-perspective... I don't understand why so many believe it's a good buy. I agree it makes no sense to get into the DAO right now (at least via selling LISK). But I'm not sure your conflict of interest holds water. And let me state I am interested in both the DAO and LISK (and a few other ICO's) and I look forward to LISK having its own DAO as well. If there is a proposal for a DAO investment that is accepted, why would: 1 - they invest in a project with a far out return that can hurt them? (They would have to manage this.) 2 - they invest in a project that is just going to cash out the ETH? (Look at ETH and BTC both, many of those with lots of "tokens" used those tokens by investing in other companies and those "tokens" were often passed on as such, not necessarily cashed in. This is money after all. I think you are looking at this from one perspective. You did not take into consideration that the voters of the DAO will HAVE TO consider the points you brought up and if they do and still vote on it, it will have to be for a good reason. You describe something like an ideal scenario in which I don't believe. The majority won't even vote for or against a proposal, just hoping for higher prices on the exchange. And the majority of those who will vote will mostly follow the marketing of the leaders. It's very likely that a group will have a lot of power and a lot of influence and make decisions out of own interest. That's totally normal and we see it every where. DAO won't be different but it will involve some more risks. I really think it is a weak argument to primarily look at the first of its kind type of thing in the DAO, purely from a one sided perspective as you did. I'm not saying your arguments have no truth to them as they do, but you only presented that one side and it is clear to anyone who understands this tech, that you just focused on that one side and that distorts the argument of course, as you present it as the data set and not a part of a larger one. You say "who understands this tech" but I don't speak about the tech. I see the tech as another risk, but I mainly focus on the "social-experiment-part". And some dynamics are predictable. The DAO's value can be worth more than the money it has in it for a variety of reasons. The most obvious would be something along the lines of a PE ratio, which is forward looking. The DAO (or a DAO on LISK too) allows people to crowdfund in an incredible flexible way, removing the normal borders. Another reason would be one of a lack of regulation due to the before mentioned reason (And I would imagine this can of course be a negative as well.) Under the line DAO needs to make money. And if that works out, the price will also rise above the real marketcap because ppl would begin to anticipate success. Nothing else will be real. Nothing here is safe, huge chance but we are talking another Black Swan type thing here. We know not what it can do and all that it can disrupt.
Black Swans are unexpected events and therefore not predictable. Conflicts in DAO are predictable. It's not safe to predict if DAO will become successful or not, but the conflict in interest is obvious. DAO will have impact on ETH and the ETH-price is the main-factor for the value of DAO. It's even possible that it will be all good with DAO's decisions but problems in Ethereum and a falling ETH-price would lower the DAO-value. It's also possible that everything is good with Ethereum and DAO will invest in a very good project but the selling of DAO/ETH will have impact on the price, maybe just out of psychological reasons (anticipation of selling). Remember the Bitcoin-price after the Ethereum-ICO. Everytime they just moved some Bitcoins the price went down. And the DAO-marketcap is 5 times or even more above the ETH-ICO-value (I believe Ethereum made about $30 Mio in the ICO, but not sure if correct). Re. Plus - Invest in what you like, but don't make your personal opinions one of reason for the rest. Crowds generally decide much better than individuals do. You can see this trend across many spaces and I'm not exactly sure why but it is there. But that is your reason right there. Another one would be - If you are not an institutional investor (i.e. rich) you can't invest in many things. Economic discrimination, I mean protection. lol Like everybody else I just write my own opinion. I don't say that anybody else should make decisions based on my arguments. One of my opinions is btw: I don't believe that Crowds generally decide much better than individuals. Especially in Crypto we often saw the opposite. I agree with your conclusion though.  Many ways lead to rome! consensus investing never makes money unless it's a conspiracy to manipulate a market. contrarian investing makes money. DAO is quasi consensus and is open to conspiracies and fraud. Well, we can hope when LISK does their DAO that we learn from Ethereum, eh? |
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Hope bittrex so i could sell all and buy DAO ico(130 millions).
I think 90% of lisk holder will dump to buy DAO.
Maybe i will buy later lisk, but priority is DAO now.
It won't make too much sense to dump Lisk to buy DAO. DAO is very expensive now and will become more expensive every day. The marketcap is very high ($162 Mio) and even if it's a very interesting and innovative idea, it's safe to say: There will be problems. Why? There is a conflict of interest in the concept. Imagine you have a lot of DAO and most DAO-holders also have a lot of ETH. There is a proposal you believe would be a good decision, but you know: If you a majority would vote for it, DAO will invest and that means: sell. DAO will sell ETH or will give ETH to a project to invest in it. That means it will lose Marketcap until there is a return. ETH will most likely also go down because ppl will anticipate sell pressure if a proposal goes through. How many will vote for a longterm-decision that still involves a lot of risk and take the loss in short-term because DAO needs to sell? And why should DAO be worth more on the exchange than the money it has? Because they will make a lot of money? Let's say they start with $180 Mio and DAO invests in a project, like slock.it or whatever. And let's say DAO invests $10 Mio. How much time will it take to make profit? And will there be profit? And even if, will it be that much profit to justify prices above a current marketcap? The question in DAO is: Who will definitely benefit? Those who will get money from DAO. That's safe. Nothing else is safe. Plus: Why should I give my money to an "institution" in which a majority will decide - or those with the biggest voting power? I like it more to make my own research, my own analysis and my own decisions. I don't trust a majority and I don't trust groups with a lot of power. And like I said above: The majority will always have to face a conflict of interest between short-term-loss and possible long-term-profit - which will always involve the risk that there won't be any profit but a loss. Conclusion: In my opinion DAO is very interesting and will be interesting to watch. There will be much to learn out of it. But out of investor-perspective... I don't understand why so many believe it's a good buy. I agree it makes no sense to get into the DAO right now (at least via selling LISK). But I'm not sure your conflict of interest holds water. And let me state I am interested in both the DAO and LISK (and a few other ICO's) and I look forward to LISK having its own DAO as well. If there is a proposal for a DAO investment that is accepted, why would: 1 - they invest in a project with a far out return that can hurt them? (They would have to manage this.) 2 - they invest in a project that is just going to cash out the ETH? (Look at ETH and BTC both, many of those with lots of "tokens" used those tokens by investing in other companies and those "tokens" were often passed on as such, not necessarily cashed in. This is money after all. I think you are looking at this from one perspective. You did not take into consideration that the voters of the DAO will HAVE TO consider the points you brought up and if they do and still vote on it, it will have to be for a good reason. You describe something like an ideal scenario in which I don't believe. The majority won't even vote for or against a proposal, just hoping for higher prices on the exchange. And the majority of those who will vote will mostly follow the marketing of the leaders. It's very likely that a group will have a lot of power and a lot of influence and make decisions out of own interest. That's totally normal and we see it every where. DAO won't be different but it will involve some more risks. I really think it is a weak argument to primarily look at the first of its kind type of thing in the DAO, purely from a one sided perspective as you did. I'm not saying your arguments have no truth to them as they do, but you only presented that one side and it is clear to anyone who understands this tech, that you just focused on that one side and that distorts the argument of course, as you present it as the data set and not a part of a larger one. You say "who understands this tech" but I don't speak about the tech. I see the tech as another risk, but I mainly focus on the "social-experiment-part". And some dynamics are predictable. The DAO's value can be worth more than the money it has in it for a variety of reasons. The most obvious would be something along the lines of a PE ratio, which is forward looking. The DAO (or a DAO on LISK too) allows people to crowdfund in an incredible flexible way, removing the normal borders. Another reason would be one of a lack of regulation due to the before mentioned reason (And I would imagine this can of course be a negative as well.) Under the line DAO needs to make money. And if that works out, the price will also rise above the real marketcap because ppl would begin to anticipate success. Nothing else will be real. Nothing here is safe, huge chance but we are talking another Black Swan type thing here. We know not what it can do and all that it can disrupt.
Black Swans are unexpected events and therefore not predictable. Conflicts in DAO are predictable. It's not safe to predict if DAO will become successful or not, but the conflict in interest is obvious. DAO will have impact on ETH and the ETH-price is the main-factor for the value of DAO. It's even possible that it will be all good with DAO's decisions but problems in Ethereum and a falling ETH-price would lower the DAO-value. It's also possible that everything is good with Ethereum and DAO will invest in a very good project but the selling of DAO/ETH will have impact on the price, maybe just out of psychological reasons (anticipation of selling). Remember the Bitcoin-price after the Ethereum-ICO. Everytime they just moved some Bitcoins the price went down. And the DAO-marketcap is 5 times or even more above the ETH-ICO-value (I believe Ethereum made about $30 Mio in the ICO, but not sure if correct). Re. Plus - Invest in what you like, but don't make your personal opinions one of reason for the rest. Crowds generally decide much better than individuals do. You can see this trend across many spaces and I'm not exactly sure why but it is there. But that is your reason right there. Another one would be - If you are not an institutional investor (i.e. rich) you can't invest in many things. Economic discrimination, I mean protection. lol Like everybody else I just write my own opinion. I don't say that anybody else should make decisions based on my arguments. One of my opinions is btw: I don't believe that Crowds generally decide much better than individuals. Especially in Crypto we often saw the opposite. I agree with your conclusion though. Many ways lead to rome! My point is that your argument was one sided and that in and of itself isn't bad, but you spoke of it as being "Gospel". True, Rome here we come... |
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When is Ethereum supposed to move to POS? I heard later in the year but not sure if that is possible. When that does happen, they will start talking about a semi hard emission cap imo. They will still have emissions but not at the huge rate they do now. |
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Hope bittrex so i could sell all and buy DAO ico(130 millions).
I think 90% of lisk holder will dump to buy DAO.
Maybe i will buy later lisk, but priority is DAO now.
It won't make too much sense to dump Lisk to buy DAO. DAO is very expensive now and will become more expensive every day. The marketcap is very high ($162 Mio) and even if it's a very interesting and innovative idea, it's safe to say: There will be problems. Why? There is a conflict of interest in the concept. Imagine you have a lot of DAO and most DAO-holders also have a lot of ETH. There is a proposal you believe would be a good decision, but you know: If you a majority would vote for it, DAO will invest and that means: sell. DAO will sell ETH or will give ETH to a project to invest in it. That means it will lose Marketcap until there is a return. ETH will most likely also go down because ppl will anticipate sell pressure if a proposal goes through. How many will vote for a longterm-decision that still involves a lot of risk and take the loss in short-term because DAO needs to sell? And why should DAO be worth more on the exchange than the money it has? Because they will make a lot of money? Let's say they start with $180 Mio and DAO invests in a project, like slock.it or whatever. And let's say DAO invests $10 Mio. How much time will it take to make profit? And will there be profit? And even if, will it be that much profit to justify prices above a current marketcap? The question in DAO is: Who will definitely benefit? Those who will get money from DAO. That's safe. Nothing else is safe. Plus: Why should I give my money to an "institution" in which a majority will decide - or those with the biggest voting power? I like it more to make my own research, my own analysis and my own decisions. I don't trust a majority and I don't trust groups with a lot of power. And like I said above: The majority will always have to face a conflict of interest between short-term-loss and possible long-term-profit - which will always involve the risk that there won't be any profit but a loss. Conclusion: In my opinion DAO is very interesting and will be interesting to watch. There will be much to learn out of it. But out of investor-perspective... I don't understand why so many believe it's a good buy. I agree it makes no sense to get into the DAO right now (at least via selling LISK). But I'm not sure your conflict of interest holds water. And let me state I am interested in both the DAO and LISK (and a few other ICO's) and I look forward to LISK having its own DAO as well. If there is a proposal for a DAO investment that is accepted, why would: 1 - they invest in a project with a far out return that can hurt them? (They would have to manage this.) 2 - they invest in a project that is just going to cash out the ETH? (Look at ETH and BTC both, many of those with lots of "tokens" used those tokens by investing in other companies and those "tokens" were often passed on as such, not necessarily cashed in. This is money after all. I think you are looking at this from one perspective. You did not take into consideration that the voters of the DAO will HAVE TO consider the points you brought up and if they do and still vote on it, it will have to be for a good reason. I really think it is a weak argument to primarily look at the first of its kind type of thing in the DAO, purely from a one sided perspective as you did. I'm not saying your arguments have no truth to them as they do, but you only presented that one side and it is clear to anyone who understands this tech, that you just focused on that one side and that distorts the argument of course, as you present it as the data set and not a part of a larger one. The DAO's value can be worth more than the money it has in it for a variety of reasons. The most obvious would be something along the lines of a PE ratio, which is forward looking. The DAO (or a DAO on LISK too) allows people to crowdfund in an incredible flexible way, removing the normal borders. Another reason would be one of a lack of regulation due to the before mentioned reason (And I would imagine this can of course be a negative as well.) Nothing here is safe, huge chance but we are talking another Black Swan type thing here. We know not what it can do and all that it can disrupt. Re. Plus - Invest in what you like, but don't make your personal opinions one of reason for the rest. Crowds generally decide much better than individuals do. You can see this trend across many spaces and I'm not exactly sure why but it is there. But that is your reason right there. Another one would be - If you are not an institutional investor (i.e. rich) you can't invest in many things. Economic discrimination, I mean protection. lol I agree with your conclusion though. |
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Really good news when one considers the % of BTC volume that comes from China! A bit funny, most of those article have English headlines (in gif) and then all Chinese - Can anyone verify? lol |
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Nice Jian, very well thought out post that shows a lot of what Lisk can do. Deserves a big bump...
Its about sharing
"shows alot of what Lisk can do"? really? Did you got it wrong or are you serious about it? This is waves token thread not lisk. LOL, I support both but had read the Lisk thread then found that in the Waves thread. Just an honest mistake. At least it wasn't a cross post! And notice, no ads in my sig. |
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I've been curious about WAVES since the start of this thread, but haven't spent the time to research beyond what information is in the OP. Still a bit hesitant to get in during the ICO, so I ask you all this: What is WAVES bringing to the table that merits an investment? Recently I've been under the impression that the majority of ICOs attempt to lure in buyers using fancy wording, massive walls of text and nonsensical technical jargon. So many coins claim to offer 'useful new features' or 'the next standard' when in reality they're nothing more than an average clone with a shiny new GUI; all its investors merely in it to make a quick buck before moving on to the next. Serious answers please - I'm curious what WAVES has to offer. What I'm most interested in is if anything new is being brought to the table. Sell this to me, guys - I'd love to be a part of the next big thing Thanks in advance! @Arrakeen, Unlike many other crypto-initiatives, the Waves platform has unique real use cases that prove to be superior to the substitute centralized services at the moment. There might be a lot use cases for it, but let me tell you the most prevalent and featured ones. First of all, we need to understand the underlying technology. It's asset-to-asset trading. That simple, actually. But the opportunities this feature will bring about is countless and enormous. It means that you will be able to create your own asset (like you can do with Counterparty or Nxt), and trade it against other assets created by others. Now let's take a look at the real use cases. 1) Fiat integration: If a financial company creates its own asset and says that "I will sell this token for 1 USD and also buy it back at the same price," and comes up with a legal document showing its liability for the convertibility of the asset into real USD, then that asset is the USD-token. Its value is 1 USD, backed by real USD held in the bank account of that financial institution. Now it means that you can trade any crypto-asset created in the platform against that USD-token. What are those assets in the platform? BTC, for instance, or ETH. So it means there is no need to worry about the reliability and security of the centralized exchanges. Bitfinex, Poloniex, Coinbase etc... In those hackable systems, you store your cryptos in hot wallets, and pay tons of transaction fees. But when you trade in the decentralized exchange of the Waves platform, you will hold your cryptos as well as your fiat in your Waves wallet, and the trading fees are just the network fees of the platform, that is, a few cents. 2) Crowdfunding projects: Think of it like a decentralized Kickstarter. You may issue your own token and sell it against USD in the platform. The positive consequences of such an application is apparent. You don't pay fees to a middleman. Your shares in the crowdfunding project is tradable. So it's like the company gets listed in a stock exchange right in the crowdfunding phase. And you don't have to take into account the price volatility of bitcoin, since you get the money already as USD. 3) International money transfers: That's a straight conclusion of the fiat integration. There will be many gateways in many countries, each issuing their local currency. Now if Alice wants to send 100 USD to Bob, and Bob wants EUR instead of USD, it's easily achievable by buying USD-tokens, converting them in the decentralized exchange to EUR-tokens and then send them to Bob, who will then use the EUR-gateway to get the tokens converted and sent to his bank account. Now this is what disrupts the traditional centralized model most. A platform to be the infrastructure of a wide range of companies which are competitors of Kickstarter, PayPal, and Bitfinex. I hope the long-term potential is obvious here. So why invest in Waves? Because each transaction in the platform will require a transaction fee, which is payable in Wave tokens. So the adoption of the platform means the demand for the Wave tokens, which should increase its value. Note that the Waves platform doesn't only serve to the cryptocurrency community, but because of the fiat integration, it aims to be the decentralized network for the non-crypto folks as well. I hope that counts as an explanation, and I hope you join us! Best, Jian Nice Jian, very well thought out post that shows a lot of what Waves can do. Deserves a big bump... Its about sharing |
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If anyone is interested, prices on LISK are:
Average from Below: .0056 BTC/LISK = $2.45
Yobit - .012 BTC/LISK = $5.26
Bloombit - .0023 BTC/LISK = $1
Openledger - .0026 BTC/LISK = $1.14
Openledger, the decentralized exchange, has LISK ICO tokens trading at around .0026 BTC. I think that is around $1.14 per LISK (Someone check my math as Openledger uses it's own token (BTS) that you must first acquire.)
Really have no idea which one is accurate. The Openledger exchange is new and you have to buy tokens there first, so that might put people off. Not sure how reputable any of the exchanges are though.
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If anyone is interested, prices on LISK are:
Average from Below: .0056 BTC/LISK = $2.45
Yobit - .012 BTC/LISK = $5.26
Bloombit - .0023 BTC/LISK = $1
Openledger - .0026 BTC/LISK = $1.14
Openledger, the decentralized exchange, has LISK ICO tokens trading at around .0026 BTC. I think that is around $1.14 per LISK (Someone check my math as Openledger uses it's own token (BTS) that you must first acquire.)
Really have no idea which one is accurate. The Openledger exchange is new and you have to buy tokens there first, so that might put people off. Not sure how reputable any of the exchanges are though.
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For the DAO to fund any projects the ether they took in needs to be converted to fiat. I read somewhere that one of the projects they were considering supporting was a car sharing business in France. You can't buy vehicles with ether and even if you could it would be instantly exchanged for fiat.
Basically the DAO has been used to drive up the price of ether and as they spend those ether to support projects it will drive the price back down. Once the ball starts rolling people holding ether will sell as well.
The idea that the DAO ether are locked off the market is incorrect. Those ether must be sold to make investments. If the DAO does not sell it's ether to invest, the DAO will have failed as an investment method. The only locked funds are those of the individual investors who currently can't get out.
That's not entirely correct some ether will be turned into fiat but a lot of projects will actually be using more ether. Slock.it for example will take payments in ether and part of that ether will be going straight back to the DAO. Most of the early projects will likely have to be like this (due to the undetermined legal status of the DAO). There is strong support for early projects to be those that grow the ethereum ecosystem for the mutual benefit of ether and DAO users (e.g. ether apps, exchanges like etherex etc.). This will potentially lead to progressively more and more utility for ether resulting in greater and greater buy support. It probably won't happen over night but as time goes on and ethereum use cases continue to increase then there will be continued upward pressure on price for ether. There is no guarantee but these things are always risky. It was the same in the early days of bitcoin. Nobody ever thought there would be enough buyers to support a price of a dollar, let alone hundreds of dollars. The momentum behind ether is now getting to the same kind of stage it was in about 2012/13 with Bitcoin so there is very big potential for growth there. Well said. And it is in going from Crypto to product and staying in Crypto. Good money pushing out bad. |
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