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2601  Economy / Web Wallets / Re: Double spend? of .1 still not confirmed after 3 days on: October 21, 2015, 02:37:33 AM
the person I sent the coins to has received .1 so who has the other .1?
Technically, that person does, but that transaction is useless. It cannot be spent from and just takes up space. Everything is exactly how you intended it, except that there happens to be an extra transaction floating around. You can get rid of it from your wallet, but we will need to know what wallet you are using.

Just ignore the malleability attack, it doesn't really change anything. You sent the same coins twice to the same person, the second transaction confirmed, so he still got the money. All in all, just ignore the double spend, its like it never happened.
2602  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This Might Sounds Strange: Bitcoin Violates the Principle of Money Fungibility on: October 21, 2015, 02:12:43 AM
If the time comes that certain coins are considered permanently clean and others permanently dirty in a future regulated world system,
the community as a whole should purposefully contaminate all clean coins found on the blockchain.

And what incentive does anyone have in doing that? Should we use the Bitcoin Honor System(TM) and hope people are willing to devalue their clean money?

I have a better idea. Fungibility.

I see a pattern happening here:

1. Issues raised with Bitcoin's fungibility get brought to light

2. Supporters of bitcoin's "fungibility" propose solution X

3. Those who want to see reality for what it is go on to debunk solution X given it is a patch to the system and not an actualy addition to bitcoin's protocol which attempts to fix bitcoin's fungibility issues in a ROUND-ABOUT-WAY.

4. repeat step 2 for solution X+1 until X+n is reached

5. agree to disagree


There are so many supposed solutions to fixing bitcoin's fungibility problem but they don't hit the issue head on. It is always some sort of of chain (outside of bitocin protocol) PATCH which does not fix anything deterministically 100%.

Fungibility isint a problem in the first place. Its not because a dead man said it need to be fungible than the principle still hold true. I very much doubt he could foresee hundreds of years in the future that money would become digital and ethereal.

Now we're in the era of Security.

So in the future if you took your bitcoins to all bitcoin merchants to spend them or exchange them and you are denied doing so because of your coins being tainted that's not a problem?

I would see it as a problem.

Thats like saying all the shops in the world will stop accepting bills printed after a certain date, or refusing all bills that ever got some woman perfume on it. Its just not feasible. Most merchants that accept online transactions, FIAT AND BTC don't give a shit about USD or BTC, they get paid in the currency they want.

And payment processors that handle BTC live on BTC, so suiciding by refusing 90% of coins is not going to happen.
2603  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is there a way to earn at least $1 in BTC per hour? on: October 21, 2015, 12:08:31 AM
Earning 1$ per hour is easy, earning 1BTC per hours is difficult.

Earning 1BTC per hour is pretty much damn impossible.  That is making 200 dollars an hour.  I don't know anyone making that much at the moment.  Basically that is a 600,000 dollar a year job. Not saying it is impossible I just don't see people making that much per hour on Bitcoins.

Well, a big job, or a ASIC mine of 500TH/s would earn that much. That is probably not what most people can setup since that would cost easily 150 000$ to startup But its doable if you can invest it.

Well its a huge ammount to invest and well the roi would be something around 2 years.I guess nowadays there isnt any project able to give you 1 dollar daily,there is the comission on each sale but the sucess need time and investment.The only people maybe doing such is the good and honest admin running some project online.

ROI could be before the halving, if it take 2 years to ROI, you do it wrong. It just depend on what electricity rate you get, and since you have that much capital, you might as well set it up somewhere at 0.00-0.02$/kWh.
2604  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This Might Sounds Strange: Bitcoin Violates the Principle of Money Fungibility on: October 21, 2015, 12:05:02 AM
If the time comes that certain coins are considered permanently clean and others permanently dirty in a future regulated world system,
the community as a whole should purposefully contaminate all clean coins found on the blockchain.

And what incentive does anyone have in doing that? Should we use the Bitcoin Honor System(TM) and hope people are willing to devalue their clean money?

I have a better idea. Fungibility.

I see a pattern happening here:

1. Issues raised with Bitcoin's fungibility get brought to light

2. Supporters of bitcoin's "fungibility" propose solution X

3. Those who want to see reality for what it is go on to debunk solution X given it is a patch to the system and not an actualy addition to bitcoin's protocol which attempts to fix bitcoin's fungibility issues in a ROUND-ABOUT-WAY.

4. repeat step 2 for solution X+1 until X+n is reached

5. agree to disagree


There are so many supposed solutions to fixing bitcoin's fungibility problem but they don't hit the issue head on. It is always some sort of of chain (outside of bitocin protocol) PATCH which does not fix anything deterministically 100%.

Fungibility isint a problem in the first place. Its not because a dead man said it need to be fungible than the principle still hold true. I very much doubt he could foresee hundreds of years in the future that money would become digital and ethereal.

Now we're in the era of Security.
2605  Economy / Computer hardware / Re: [WTS] Custom server PSU breakout boards. 1200, 1300, 2000, 2880w. PCIE adapter on: October 20, 2015, 10:16:46 PM
Funksy seem busy to. I haven't managed to get any reply from him since the time you referenced him. Hopefully i can get those long cables in the near future, i been needed some for quite a while, now.

If you mean Finsky, then I believe he said in his thread that he is away this week and only has mobile access.

Yes, obviously i can't type for shit. Tongue Okay then thanks i shall wait longer, while keeping an eye out for some people in North America that could have some to help me out of this tight spot.
2606  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Message To Beginners: Do not use Secret Question to reset account - It locks it on: October 20, 2015, 09:57:28 PM
Holy shit i didnt know this. Luckily I always put for security question something like: asfh8y3qkafju89eu, which is really hard to guess the answer to Cheesy

This should be added to the registration notification, or disabled completely. It seems to me a fatal flaw that can scare away many members.

Maybe setup a strong 2FA for authentication, so that people can simply use their google authenticator or such to recover their password. I'm not sure if the other password reset method let you change your password without locking? By using your email account, i mean.
2607  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This Might Sounds Strange: Bitcoin Violates the Principle of Money Fungibility on: October 20, 2015, 09:55:52 PM
I've repeated this ad nauseam but it needs to be emphasized: all units within the system are perfectly indistinguishable and can be trivially substituted with one another. This, is fungibility.  

I understand the technical difference between inputs and addresses but from a transactional standpoint it doesn't matter, because blockchain analysis services still ultimately determine your money's worth.

And FIAT's value isint based on its numerical value, its based on the purchasing power of the currency, the value goes up and down, depending on supply and demand. The second you compare how different currency work, you're just going away from the fungibility fundamentals, that need not even apply to BTC.
2608  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Cloud mining, can it still pay out? on: October 20, 2015, 09:10:47 PM
i really doubt that it might pay off after a few years though i dont think its worth doing it then as it wont give you decent profit

More than likely, whatever GH based on a value you get now will be worthless in a few years, because of raising difficulty, at least at hashnest, because its fee is based on the profitably of the unit its tied to ex; S5.

Otherwise you'd need a system where they devalue and overtime fee per GH is lowered.
2609  Economy / Computer hardware / Re: [WTB][CA/QC]S3 Controller+Blades, S5 blades, working or not + 18pins long cables on: October 20, 2015, 08:53:13 PM
Willing to buy;

Working S3 Controller + 2x Working S3 Blades including all connection cables. Basically a S3 without the heatsinks + husk/frame. = 0.2BTC Shipped per working set
(Willing to buy the whole thing if it does not make a big difference on shipping, in the case where you would rather not disassemble)

Working S5 Blade + Support bracket (black metal thing you bolt controller and heatsink into) = 0.4BTC Shipped

May also be interested in picking up dead S5 blade in acceptable condition. 10$/per.

Also interested in picking up 18 but also 16 pins long cables for S5's.

Am now looking specifically more for long cables, 18 or 16 pins and the support bracket. I am still looking to obtain S5 blades / S3 "kits" but i can only grab limited supply of those for the time being.

Please PM or offer if you have anything available, thanks.!
2610  Economy / Computer hardware / Re: [WTS] Custom server PSU breakout boards. 1200, 1300, 2000, 2880w. PCIE adapter on: October 20, 2015, 08:51:21 PM
Hi all,

looks like jabber is really busy at the moment, is there anyone in Germany who could provide a 2880 breakout board and at least 6 pci-cables (36" HQ) ?

Regards
Stefan

You can' imagine how much I'm busy. I've been unavailable for 2 weeks, and have tons of PM/Emails to answer, and boards to manufacture.
Your message is still in the "to read" list.
To give you an idea or price, boards are 60€ for small orders, cables, 3€ each.
I also have some IEC C19 cables with EU plugs, 2 meters long, for 8€.
Shipping to Germany should be 18-20€, maybe a little less, but I won't be able to ship until next week.

Funksy seem busy to. I haven't managed to get any reply from him since the time you referenced him. Hopefully i can get those long cables in the near future, i been needed some for quite a while, now.
2611  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: The 10 Commandments of Internet Security & Online Privacy on: October 20, 2015, 08:49:27 PM
Thou shall never visit russian porn sites with many popups while having electrum wallet open. I almost got hacked by trojan viruses, luckily I moved the my funds faster to safety than the hacker.

How does one know for certain your coins has became vulnerable to a trojan that can specifically hijack your priv key from a specific wallet? Because if a program would of had access to your privkey, it would itself instantly send a transaction to a preconfigured node asking all your funds to be moved.

Its not an actual hacker that does the work. You just code a trojan and wait for funds to arrive while you work on infecting more people.
2612  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This Might Sounds Strange: Bitcoin Violates the Principle of Money Fungibility on: October 20, 2015, 08:45:53 PM
If the time comes that certain coins are considered permanently clean and others permanently dirty in a future regulated world system,
the community as a whole should purposefully contaminate all clean coins found on the blockchain.

And what incentive does anyone have in doing that? Should we use the Bitcoin Honor System(TM) and hope people are willing to devalue their clean money?

I have a better idea. Fungibility.

I meant that other bitcoin users, who have "dirty coins" should send some to "clean addresses".
There is no way of exchanges and banks to know whether the coins that are moved forward from that address contain the "dirty coins".
And so, all coins within that addresses would be outright considered "dirty".
If all addresses are "dirtied" than there is no fungibility problem. All coins become dirty.

Well machines can sift through a lot more data than "is at any point...?" so this argument would still stand against coins that was dirty before "the great Bitcoin mudfight" to make all coins dirty.

There's also the added problems that more new clean coins are made every 9.9~ minutes on average. And if you add a few satoshis to new or old clean coins, it doesn't really make them dirtied.

Its not hard to have the clean/unclean system ignore "dirtying" of less than x.

You would need to actually mix all the coins with all the coins. Doesn't sound doable.

I see what you mean, but its fungibility isint being called to question right now, and if it does, then we can come up with a solution then, or just enforce it by law. And then maybe, money doesn't need to be fungible, when its a decentralized entity like Bitcoin. But its still fungible.

If we suddenly need government help to make Bitcoin fungible, we might as well go back to fiat and pass more laws to limit crooked banking practices. While we're at it we should just elect better politicians and vote third party Cheesy

On step at a time, but yeah its ridiculous. Also it will not become a problem or be needed.
2613  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is Bitcoin growth going exponential? on: October 20, 2015, 08:42:44 PM
2 years ago the price was fairly close to what it is now. What growth?

Actually, 2 years ago it was at 110$, since then we had the MtGox manipulate the price to a massive extent, then crash to all hell, according to people, survive several "official deaths" and now we're at a stable 200$+

If you don't see the growth difference between value one and two, then no i guess there wasn't any growth(?)
2614  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This Might Sounds Strange: Bitcoin Violates the Principle of Money Fungibility on: October 20, 2015, 08:35:53 PM
I don't see it? If the price is 2.1BTC then it does not matter what bitcoin you send, the price is the same. The price you PAY for a bitcoin varies, but not the value. I might be able to sell you a dollar for $1.05, however that does not mean dollars have lost their fungibility.

And some coins or bills with specific history, serial number or print are worth more. Misprint, etc. That doesn't mean that the dollars isint the same value. Imagine if you could own the very first Genesis BTC, it would be like owning the very first bill ever made.

That doesn't mean a btc to another, the value is different.

I understand its easier to do than real money, but is this not the same thing as saying "We won't accept any Bills that became in contact with cocaine in their lifetime."?
You don't see shops rejecting bills because they came into the money of criminal once, so, why would this become a problem for BTC?

You don't see shops rejecting bills because it is illegal for them to do so. Fiat is fungible because governments enforce it.

Bitcoin has no central authority to enforce anything, so it's fungibility must come at the protocol level.

I see what you mean, but its fungibility isint being called to question right now, and if it does, then we can come up with a solution then, or just enforce it by law. And then maybe, money doesn't need to be fungible, when its a decentralized entity like Bitcoin. But its still fungible.

You will always receive the amounts you're supposed.

Any different value to BTC would be attributed by the buyer.

Its like having a guy that will pay more for bills print on a certain year. It doesnt actually change the value of the bill. Its just a damn entity that decide he,s going to pay more or less based on his criteria.

Bills arent indistinguishable from one another. And Bitcoin is not either. If this boil down to being able to spend it without revealing all the previous transaction, than so be it, wait for sidechains.
2615  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is there a way to earn at least $1 in BTC per hour? on: October 20, 2015, 08:26:24 PM
Earning 1$ per hour is easy, earning 1BTC per hours is difficult.

Earning 1BTC per hour is pretty much damn impossible.  That is making 200 dollars an hour.  I don't know anyone making that much at the moment.  Basically that is a 600,000 dollar a year job. Not saying it is impossible I just don't see people making that much per hour on Bitcoins.

Well, a big job, or a ASIC mine of 500TH/s would earn that much. That is probably not what most people can setup since that would cost easily 150 000$ to startup But its doable if you can invest it.
2616  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Buying Bitcoin was a worst decision of my life on: October 20, 2015, 08:21:43 PM
How many of you can admit that buying Bitcoin was a worst decision of your life? I can. I'm approximately -50% in fiat funds now.
Sooner or later some type of bank chain or coin will come and gain mass adoption - while bitcoin still remaining a geek coin
to buy weed.
I know this forum is more like a cult than a information channel what comes to honest opinions but I know there's others
on this forum who feel the same, almost all of us. Don't let your cult believer ego come in the way.

Well, the problem is... you bought them to hold. and the worst was you bought them at a bad time. You bought them when they were still pretty expensive and now you will have to wait if you want to see your other half of investment come back to your pocket. But don't dispair, if you hold them I'm pretty sure that the price will only go higher and higher from now on. You could see some retracements, and that's pretty a healthy event in any market. So, my advice is, hold them, hold them tight cause I really believe it will be possible for you will get at least double of your investment.

Agree that he bought them up at a bad time.  Disagree with holding them.  It is rather foolish to purchase coins to do anything else but to hold them.  It is an investment or risk that you are trying to take.  Holding is the only way in the world for that to work.

Its been a while since i got into bitcoin and at first i bought Bitcoin to buy hardware. I bought Bitcoin at 600$ at some point, but i did not hold them, i reinvested them, so now i'm earning what i bought in coin at that time every other month.

I think holding Bitcoin before you're sure of its base value is a mistake, meanwhile if you double your Bitcoin every year through investments, you'll end up with so much more money in 10-20 years if bitcoin really go up than letting bitcoin sit, collecting virtual dust for all that time.
2617  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This Might Sounds Strange: Bitcoin Violates the Principle of Money Fungibility on: October 20, 2015, 08:19:42 PM
I understand its easier to do than real money, but is this not the same thing as saying "We won't accept any Bills that became in contact with cocaine in their lifetime."?
You don't see shops rejecting bills because they came into the money of criminal once, so, why would this become a problem for BTC?
2618  Other / MultiBit / Re: Multibit HD 0.1.3 Password no longer valid on: October 20, 2015, 08:17:42 PM
I have the same problem today. I open a Support request on GitHub. This seems to be pretty intersting bug.
Hope for quick resolution.

link to GitHub: https://github.com/bitcoin-solutions/multibit-hd/issues

That an interesting variant to the problem, but different than mine. Are you unable to close the window and go to options as well? And you say you can never get past the login screen its at the login screen that you click restore/create instead of "unlock".
2619  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This Might Sounds Strange: Bitcoin Violates the Principle of Money Fungibility on: October 20, 2015, 07:10:58 AM
Centralized fiat is fungible by decree.

The only way for a decentralized money to be fungible is for its units to be completely indistinguishable. Sorry, but Bitcoin does not meet that requirement.

Now, perhaps you can argue if it will matter in the future, but the question of whether or not Bitcoin is fungible has been asked and answered. It simply is not

Satoshis are undistinguishable. If I spend two different inputs of one satoshi to the same output you will not be able to identify which is which.

You can't tell which of the two inputs they come from, but they're distinguishable from all other satoshis of other transactions.
The history of an output isn't a one single trail but a tree. Doesn't mean this history doesn't exist (and isn't potentially meaningful).

And you can distinguish bills from their serial number. Having a ledger of all transaction prior does not change the weight value of the Bitcoins. Electronic transaction are just the same.
2620  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: antminer s3 help part 2 on: October 20, 2015, 03:32:00 AM
for thows who hlp me on my first mess thanks. but im still having more problems. it seems when i got into my ant miner s3.  and set up my miners nothing shows up on my miner stats  i don't know if i set something up wrong or not but ill be uploading a video for yous to see every thing and how its set up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wk3PjlZ15Y&feature=youtu.be

You're going around in pages you have no reason to go. Did you go in miner config and set valid miner worker login information? Its in the miner configuration tab.

Also in network option you should make sure its set to DHCP, before you start fiddling with random stuff.
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