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281  Local / Altcoins (Hrvatski) / Re: FOOTBATTLE - Besplatna AI nogometna igra (menađer) na Ethereum mreži! on: February 05, 2020, 07:14:58 PM
Ne znam šta su u ovom zadnjem updateu napravili s algoritmom za navijače ali meni paše. Odigrao sam jučer i danas po jedan Diamond kup i svaki put dobio oko 25M navijača.

Ja ju izbjegavam već 2 dana, sad ćeš me navuć i ode 20 milijuna. Ti već praktički imaš skoro full Legentary momčad, nisam siguran da mi se baš sad kocka s tim. Pogotovo s obzirom na dosta smanjene nagrade.

Je, super je, sad sam stavio 1. momčad za PVP a 3. za solo.
Odem igrati PVP i naravno da mi igra 3.momčad...
282  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: US marshals seizure of 4000 btc being auctioned, will start dump/run this month? on: February 05, 2020, 06:39:52 PM
Do you see those who are purchasing them to cause a dump in the price due to selling them off or a bull run just like back in 2017?

Is there any indication that past USMS auctions sold bitcoins at a discounted price? Unless bidders are buying at significant discounts, there's no reason to think they'll turn around and immediately sell them.

If anything, these bitcoins might fetch a premium for the same reason that "virgin bitcoins" do. They are officially whitelisted by the US government.

Ugh, but the goverment knows who bought them? Kinda loses the point.

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Either way, I'm skeptical that 4k coins being dumped is large enough to trigger a sell-off.

The media stories will generate enough interest to counter the sell off, if it happens.
And as previously said, the bitcoin market is huge enough now so it wouldn't suffer from such a sale.

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Someone will probably be buying these Bitcoins to hold on to them. It makes no sense to buy it and then just dump the market.

Depends on the price they purchase them for.

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The auctions I remember were on way smaller amounts of BTC

BTC price and trade volume was lower as well.
283  Local / Altcoins (Hrvatski) / Re: FOOTBATTLE - Besplatna AI nogometna igra (menađer) na Ethereum mreži! on: February 05, 2020, 06:11:03 PM
crypto nikad neće postati mainstream dok imaš nekog tko je kao servis koji drži tvoju lovu (wallet) i 24 sata nakon što im daš sve podatke, nemaš od njih ni rješenja, ni odgovora. Da mi treba fortmatic wallet sad da mi život spasi, krepao bih.

Odeš na MEW, napraviš eth wallet i spojiš ga s metamaskom.
Ne moraš ništa čekati, nitko ne drži tvoju lovu i ne moraš nikome davati nikakve podatke.
Ovo su samo usluge koje koriste crypto, a ne crypto.
Crypto kao crypto nema veze s time. Svaki bitcoin wallet, eth wallet itd. nema veze s podatcima i samo ti kontroliraš novac.
284  Other / Ivory Tower / Re: I need help understanding what trans people feel.... on: February 05, 2020, 06:02:00 PM
Yeah I can't find any other source here. Apparently universities are turning down opportunities to research it for fear of being labelled politically incorrect. Or somethin glike that.

I imagine saying something along the lines 'counseling and psychotherapy would help transgender people,not reassingment' would cause quite an uproar and is therefore disincetivized.
You can always use the data that is allowed.
You can definitely find something even in the research that's focused on reassingment Smiley
285  Other / Ivory Tower / Re: I need help understanding what trans people feel.... on: February 05, 2020, 05:08:21 PM
I'm after finding where your 40% figure came from.


Although maybe you've just plucked it from thin air now and assigned it to that.

I didn't say the data you quoted is incorrect, I said that you shouldn't quote the article. They are news reporters and not scientists.
You should of quoted the paper because reports aren't a legitimate source on the issue.
The research they quote - is a research and is legitimate, the description of it may be, or may not be.
Will look it up and edit this post in a couple of minutes.

Edit:
Quote
Among the starkest findings is that 40% of respondents have attempted suicide in their lifetime—nearly nine times the attempted suicide rate in the U.S. population (4.6%).

Source:
https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/usts/USTS-Full-Report-Dec17.pdf

The Research and Development Directorate of the NHS Executive is quoting death by suicide. 18% die from suicide and 40% seem to commit it (succesfully and unsuccessfully). It's relieving to see less than half succeed.

If you look at the post op data
This is the biggest and longest study yet I believe
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885



You can see after the first year they probably do feel better etc. but after ~10 years their mortality rate is almost in free-fall (mostly suicides) and diverges on average some ~13% from the control group.
If the attempted suicide rate in the US is 4.6%, and the average succesful suicide rate among the trangender community is 18%.
We can assume the 13% divergance rate from the control group bears no relevant statistical improvoment on the preoperation period.
It obviously does alleaviate some symptoms of gender dysphoria as the participants report they do feel better but their mental health doesn't improve at all.

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This suggests that male-to-females are at higher risk for suicide attempts after sex reassignment, whereas female-to-males maintain a female pattern of suicide attempts after sex reassignment (Tables S1 and S2).
286  Other / Ivory Tower / Re: I need help understanding what trans people feel.... on: February 05, 2020, 04:54:46 PM
So provide your own from a legitimate source?

I'm not sure what info you're looking for exactly?
But using a search engine to find scientific literature and statistics is a way to go.
I mean you can use the media to find research papers but avoid reading any info they've written about it other than stating facts.
287  Other / Ivory Tower / Re: I need help understanding what trans people feel.... on: February 05, 2020, 04:46:28 PM
Tbf, it's hard to work out what's fact and what's fiction:

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the greatest flaws in medical literature about gender reassignment were in those studies unsympathetic to transsexual people. For example, one study was based on a survey of seven transsexual prostitutes interviewed in one gay bar in Chicago.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2004/jul/30/health.mentalhealth

(the guardian are fairly left leaning, more left than I am but still seem to not be too far gone as to be overly biased)...

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Research from the US and Holland suggests that up to a fifth of patients regret changing sex. A 1998 review by the Research and Development Directorate of the NHS Executive found attempted suicide rates of up to 18% noted in some medical studies of gender reassignment.


You're making a mistake using the media to get scientific information.
Most of the information you get from the media is biased, cherry-picked or even flat out lies.
I can support this claim if necessary with a whole new thread.

Besides the obvious suicide rates, irreversible genital mutilation, and trans regret this "you're female if you feel like it" sets a precedent.
If you can feel like a different sex and compell other people to oblige to your feeling, how long until other things become obliged because someone feels like something? What happens when I start feeling 15?
Why would we discriminate against 40 year olds who feel 15? They are 15! And you're just discriminating against them.
Sex with minors isn't illegal if you're 15.
288  Other / Ivory Tower / Re: I need help understanding what trans people feel.... on: February 05, 2020, 03:21:41 PM
Unless you're a friend or know them well, you should probably meet them with indifference towards it. Much like how you'd be indifferent to hair colour, eye colour...

It's up to their friends and surgeons to decide whether they're of sound mind to make their own decisions. The only thing I can think of as being similar is someone with a physical disability being offered a cure when they're 20, would you take it or not? It'd often depend on the person. I'm pretty sure things as simple as having an extra toe are considered a disability of sorts too so... [it's obviously a lot different but I couldn't think of anything].

I know of no cure that causes a 40% suicide rate with irreversible genital mutilation and even those surviving it regretting taking the cure.

How many transgenders killed themselves 50 years ago when their delusions weren't enabled?
289  Other / Ivory Tower / Re: I need help understanding what trans people feel.... on: February 05, 2020, 02:59:53 PM
Well that went a little off topic by the end hmm....

I just can't picturea n idea of splitting up the camps so much between men and women. Statistically speaking, men are probably stronger and more intelligent (in certain regards), and women are more creative and better with organisation - but there are still many different outliers and confusions to this rule that it doesn't seem logical.



Also on your other topic of conversation, your penis doesn't become a penis until a few weeks after conception.... So you too have grown one of you're a biological male.

Can we not put trans people in their own category for sport?

We can't because that proves they aren't women.

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Looks like iluvbitcoins advocates assigning gender based on "born with" equipment. Regardless of other considerations like:

I don't assign your gender. I'm not the genetic code.

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Feelings
People have Body integrity dysphoria.
They feel a desire to cut off their limbs.
Would you argue we should support them?

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identity
I can identify as president of the United States. I'm still not the president.
It's unhealthy and counterproductive to enable people in their delusions.

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external looks
Biology.

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hormones
No, biology.

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chromosome abnormalities (Deletions, Duplications, Translocations, Inversions, Insertions, Rings,Isochromosome )
These are chromosome abnormalities which are biological -they're chromosome abnormalities.
It's not the same as Body Integrity dysphoria and Gender dysphoria where the persons chromosomes don't have abnormalities.
They have a disphoria.

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hermaphrodites
Hermaphordites are also biological hermaphrodites. They don't have a disphoria.

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It doesn't affect me but I wouldn't ridicule others over it.
Neither would I. I would ridicule "cis" people who support it because they're the ones at fault so many people mutilate themselves.
Transgenders are not at fault here, they suffer a disorder called gender disphoria.
No sane person would ridicule a sick person.
It's your fault if you support that. You took a part in it.
Just google sex change regret and look at post surgery suicide rates which are in level of statistical error from presurgery suicide rates.
Nothing changes with the surgery. And you enable it.

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It must be difficult to want to be different than what you have been supplied with or how others want to treat you.
Yes. It's very difficult.
It's very difficult wanting to live without limbs when you have limbs in Body integrity disphoria.

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Often suicides are about how they are not accepted by others.

It's because they don't accept themselves. And that's why they need counseling and psychotherapy. Not some idiots that say, go cut off your dick, you're going to be female and everything's going to be okay! Except they won't be okay and almost 40% will commit suicide - and they'll never be able to return to their pre-op state.
290  Other / Ivory Tower / Re: I need help understanding what trans people feel.... on: February 03, 2020, 08:43:09 PM
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That's the benefit of cis privilege. If, on the other hand, you were a trans man among a group of people who don't know you used to be woman

You didn't use to be a woman, you were a woman and you are a woman.
Flipping your dick inside out doesn't change that.
You know, I avoided dignifying your earlier post with a response because of how laughably incorrect it is, but I just have to ask... How exactly is someone who was born a woman and doesn't have a dick supposed to flip it inside out? Huh

Don't be transphobic, women have dicks too.
https://www.newsweek.com/can-woman-have-penis-gender-identity-myths-explained-1093051

What's incorrect about the first post? Please don't say you can remove your uterus  Cheesy
Estrogen improves bone density, that's why older women get osteoporosis when they don't produce as much.
Females already have a lot rarer bone density than males and then they replace their estrogen with testosterone further increasing this difference.
Really healthy!

And sorry, taking hormones to prolong your clitoris doesn't make you male. Biology makes you male.

If Fallon Fox is a woman according to you because he flipped his dick inside out, took hormone therapy and had a boob job, how did 'she' break  her oppononets skull?
Isn't 'she' supposed to be female now?
I mean, can hormone therapy and a scalpel do the job?

Here's the person with a broken skull and XX chromosomes
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I’ve fought a lot of women and have never felt the strength that I felt in a fight as I did that night. I can’t answer whether it’s because she was born a man or not because I’m not a doctor. I can only say, I’ve never felt so overpowered ever in my life and I am an abnormally strong female in my own right… I still disagree with Fox fighting. Any other job or career I say have a go at it, but when it comes to a combat sport I think it just isn’t fair.

“Twenty years ago, if a man hit a woman so hard that he sent her to the hospital, he’d be in prison. Now he can get paid for it.”
291  Local / Off-topic (Hrvatski) / Re: Politika u Hrvatskoj on: February 03, 2020, 08:32:50 PM
[...] Inače, već sam ranije naveo druge probleme koje donose imigranti.[...]

Da, ali ti navedeni problemi se ne ticu vecinom immigrantima sto su usli u EU na radnicku visu (kao sto smo vec prije zakljucili)...

Naprotiv; od tih (radnih) immigranata daleka vecina nakon tri generacije se dobro integrira...

Ako gledamo na primijer skolstvo: https://opendata.cbs.nl/statline/#/CBS/nl/dataset/82275NED/table?dl=24ECD
(Data iz Nizozemski biro za Statistiku)

Ili na primijer dobar research o tome ima takozvanu "blurring boundaries" kao zakljucak: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0141987042000280003

Sve u svemu ide jako dobro sa time. I kao sto sam isto vec ranije rekao: steta je praviti iste greske kao drugi nacionalisti (sa istim stetnim posledicama) i steta je upadati u klopku populisma i terorisma (i sebi zato oduzeti sansu na rast i teroristima upravo dati moc).

Da; dobro monitorati ko ulazi (koa sto [tajne] sluzbe i rade) a ko je obrazovan, moderan i zeljan da radi i da se adaptira - bilo koje vjere - je dobrodosao...

Ali inace mislim da smo se poceli vrtiti u krug (po koliko puta oboje vec spominjemo "kao sto smo naveli/rekli") da je mozda bolje sada preci opet na ovu "opcu" temu politike u RH... ali hvala na dobru, cistu i konstruktivnu diskusiju!


Da, istina, možemo krenuti dalje  Cheesy
Uistinu zanimljiva rasprava, ali bi zahtjevala vlastiti thread ako ćemo ovako nastaviti  Cheesy
292  Local / Off-topic (Hrvatski) / Re: Politika u Hrvatskoj on: February 03, 2020, 02:30:13 PM
Slažem se sa Danijelom....ekonomski ne postoji ljevo i desno, samo ono staro naučeno iz SKH. Razlikuju se samo u prihvaćanju i interpretiranju povijesti, i iskreno, nisam siguran da su iskreni vezano uz to. Imam osječaj da glume, da su si odabrali određenu branšu tj. u njihovom slučaju grupu ljudi koje žele predstavljati i onda glume i rade ono što takvi ljudi vole. To i je razlog zašto sam u početku rekao da razlika između SDP-a i HDZ-a ne postoji (a samim time i svih njihovih izvedenica)....oni su apsolutno jednaki. Jedan veliki sretni SKH.

Apsolutno se slažem. Ekonomski postoji samo lijevo. Od poznatih stranaka jedino HSLS je desno.
Pa ako pogledamo samo 90te, 70% članova SKH prelazi u HDZ i danas su veliki domoljubi.
Svako treće selo ima barem jednog bivšeg profesora marksizma koji je sada u prvom redu u Crkvi.
Pogledajmo samo Mesića, nekad predsjednik predsjedništva Jugoslavije, za rata drži ustaške govore (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egku0sLuqDE), a za mandata je opet partizan  Cheesy
Suncokreti koji se okreću kako vjetar puše, oportunisti i ništa drugo. Jednom je jedan čovjek mudro rekao "Da sutra dođu Turci, oni bi bili Turci".
Naravno postojao je dio ljudi koji su iskreno vjerovali u to što su propagirali, ali većina se povela oportuno za novom vlasti i samo presvukla košulje.
293  Other / Ivory Tower / Re: I need help understanding what trans people feel.... on: February 03, 2020, 02:04:09 PM
Quote
That's the benefit of cis privilege. If, on the other hand, you were a trans man among a group of people who don't know you used to be woman

You didn't use to be a woman, you were a woman and you are a woman.
Flipping your dick inside out doesn't change that.

Quote
Not really. Nobody can explain it to you, since in most (nearly all?) cases trans people can't even explain it to themselves.

They can't accept themselves for who they are but they want to mandate us to accept them for who they'd like to be.

294  Other / Ivory Tower / Re: The dimensions of SpaceX’s Starship 1 and 2 and Mars colonization on: February 03, 2020, 01:42:07 AM
elons 'boring' project is cheaper than above ground hyperloop

why?
simple. he doesnt have to buy the land. he doesnt need to deforrest, compensate displacement. doesnt then need to get architects and land surveyers to cost out leveling it. doesnt need all the stuff like bridges and other infrustructure.

he just drills a hole underground at no land vale cost less paperwork. less butting heads with people.

ofcourse once he has an effiecient drill. he can make alot of money by multiplying projects. just like hi space project. he is not interested in nasa's mission once on mars. he just interested in making a cheap way to get people to where they want

even his mega battery farm will make things cheaper. im from the UK and even the UK is developing battery farms for electric. that way when there is excess. its not lost. meaning it solves the supply demand when production supply is low. as they have stored supply.
elons not interested in being the top electrical company. he just wants to lease batteries and let others do ll the 'trading' stuff

so  if you want to be the next elon musk. think of something thats normally expensive and not well government funded because of the expense. and think of a way to do the job cheaper. then make and lease that idea to others for their projects

next projects i can see happening in the future that will revolutionise things.
1. desalinating sea water
2. small yardage high yielding farming
3. actual affordable housing construction


He can actually make the hyperloop on Mars without the pods since there's no atmosphere there and there's no need for tubes (<1% air density compared to Earth), with only rails.

Desalinization of sea water is already happening. It's a rather simple project.
295  Other / Ivory Tower / Re: I need help understanding what trans people feel.... on: February 03, 2020, 01:22:32 AM
There are people who suffer a disorder that makes you want to cut off your limbs.
We wouldn't tell those people do whatever makes you happy, you go girl!
We don't enable them, we tell them they have a disorder, we don't help them pay to get their limbs cut off.

Transgenders cut their dick off and turn the skin inside out so it resembles a vagina.
41% of them commit suicide after the surgery.
Why do we enable these people so they end up killing themselves?
Why are we such horrible human beigns?
Because we feel open and progressive about that?
Human life should be more important.

--
Other than human life and suicide taking testosterone doesn't make you male. Additional T makes your bones less dense, and males by birth already have denser bones, which females will have even rarer because of the additional T. You still have XX chromosomes, different bone structure and a womb.

Taking estrogen and breast implants doesn't make you female either. You still have XY chromosomes, you can't bear children, you can't breastfeed, you can't have periods, you're physically stronger, have denser bones and different bone structure.

--

The reason for this is because they're used as a tool.
You can't have antifacism if there's no facism.
You can't fight for someones rights if everyone has guaranteed rights.
There needs to be facism and oppressed in order to justify your own existence. They wouldn't have a purpose other than that.
296  Local / Off-topic (Hrvatski) / Re: Politika u Hrvatskoj on: February 03, 2020, 12:52:08 AM
još toj nabrojanoj ekipi treba dodati Bujanca i iq im skače na 100

Hvala Bogu nije političar, nego samo talkshow host  Cheesy


Ne treba zaboraviti da niti sama desnica ne dijeli jednaka stajališta i mišljenja. Postoje redikalnija i umjerenija tako da je teško za očekivati da itko može okupiti sve te ljude pod svoj "barjak".

Što se tiče radikalne i umjerene desnice, ne znam po kojim faktorima bi to uopće razdjelili.
Kod nas se "desnica" natječe sa ljevicom kome će dodjeliti više poreznog novca, pa tako imamo neke A-HSPove koji bi davali ljudima 10 000 kuna po rođenom djetetu i slične gluposti. Ta tzv. desnica promovira isključivo socijalističke ekonomske ideje i razlikuju se od ljevice samo po tome što ne vole Jugoslaviju radi krivog nacionalnog elementa, a ne ekonomskog sustava. Dakle, da su Jugoslaviju vodili Hrvati, bila bi okej. Što je potpuna glupost.
Jesu li radikalni desničari oni koji bi više socijalizma a umjereni oni koji bi manje?  Cheesy
Jedina realna razlika je da desnica uistinu ima nacionalnu osvještenost, al' imala ju je i ljevica nekada  Cheesy Jugoslaveni su bili nacionalno osvješteni pa nisu bili desničari.
Ekonomski čista ljevica su većina onih desnih stranaka koje se percipiraju kao 'far right' (A-HSP, HSP 1861, HČSP itd.)


Hvala Bogu, sva ta desnica je potpuno nebitna izuzev MOSTa i Ruže Tomašić. Ako MOST možemo nazvati desno.
Njih dvoje bi jedini imali realan doprinos koalicijskim partnerima.
A Ružu smatram jako produktivnom osobom s obzirom da je daleko najaktivniji naš europarlamentarac,top 9% svih najjaktivnijih europarlamentaraca, zaštitila je ribare kada se trebala zabraniti mreža koju koristi 89% naših ribara, i dala je 5 zakona u provedbu.
100 000 preferencijalnih glasova.
Dosta ljudi na "desnici" ju ne voli iz nekih drugih razloga, ali je pokazala jako dobru radnu etiku, što mislim da bi bilo osvježenje u našem saboru..
Dokazala je da uistinu nešto radi, za razliku od naše sabornice koja je vječito prazna.


297  Local / Hrvatski (Croatian) / Re: Mjesečna Analiza za Hrvatsku Lokalnu Zajednicu (Bitcointalk Croatian) on: February 02, 2020, 07:57:35 PM
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Mi u biti imamo 2, @marloboroza i @Daniel91, nemoj da nam jos smanjuju

Vjerovatno dovoljno  Cheesy

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Istina, po ovome izgleda da nam ne treba jos jedan merit source, ali Daniel91 uglavnom dijeli merit samo onima koji prijave postove jer je prilicno ogranicen sa kolicinom merita koji moze podijeliti. Ovo je bilo cisto neka moja ideja, da se jos malo dodatno ozivi ovaj nas lokalni dio jer mi je to kvalitetniji i zanimljiviji dio foruma

To je jasno. Nisam nikad ni mislio da bi merit izvori automatski dobili novi posao na pola radnog vremena s kojim bi morali češljati sve postove da nađu one vrijedne merita Cheesy
Izvor merita samo treba aktivno koristiti forum, i naletiti će na kvalitetne postove u koje je uložen trud i konstruktivni su.
Onakav thread sigurno pomaže da do izvora dospiju postovi na koje izvori nisu naletili.
Naposljetku i svi ostali također dajemo merite, ne daju ih samo izvori  Smiley
298  Local / Hrvatski (Croatian) / Re: Mjesečna Analiza za Hrvatsku Lokalnu Zajednicu (Bitcointalk Croatian) on: February 02, 2020, 04:36:14 PM
Koliko si sati stavio?  Cheesy
Imam 0 do 25.  Shocked
https://prnt.sc/qwgn2m

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Kad vidim ovaj odnos postova i merita, u usporedbi sa ostalim lokalnim boardovima, nekako mi se cini da bi kod nas mogao komotno biti jos jedan merit source.

Slažem se s marlborozom u vezi ovoga. 1 merit source je sasvim dovoljan za naš podforum.
299  Local / Hrvatski (Croatian) / Re: Bitcoin $3500 ponovo? on: February 02, 2020, 04:12:12 PM
Da se napraviti i neprobojan sustav besplatno (ako imaš USB i CD/USB).

Napraviš view-only wallet na svom računalu koji koristiš inače.
Kada želiš napraviti transakciju spremaš je na USB bootaš Live Ubuntu CD (ili USB).
Na tom offline OSu, upisuješ seed i potpisuješ transakciju (koju spremaš na USB).
Logiraš se na normalan OS i broadcastaš potpisanu transakciju.

Seed PGP enkriptiraš sa jakom šifrom.
Za dodatnu sigurnost možeš par riječi izostaviti i memorirati.

Apsolutno nikad se ne spajati na internet na offline OSu, cijela poanta je da je to offline machine  Cheesy

--
Imaš ovdje tutorial kako doći do privatnih ključeva za Jaxx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDeE0lnv5Wk
300  Local / Off-topic (Hrvatski) / Re: Politika u Hrvatskoj on: February 02, 2020, 01:07:45 PM
Mislim da će Škori biti jako teško okupiti cijelu desnicu.
Puno je tu ''ega'' i velikih ambicija, kako se ono kaže, ''puno krokodila a mala bara''  Grin Grin
Da bi se svi uspijeli okupiti, prvo bi svi ti tzv. ''veliki lideri'' desnice kao što su Petrov, Tomašić, Hasanbegović. Petir... morati zatomiti svoje taštine a nisam siguran da to mogu.
Pogledajte samo primjer HSP.
Što se tiče situacije na ljevici, mislim da je realniji scenarij da imamo 1 veliku koaliciju SDP-a sa HSS i HSU i plus jednu manju koja bi okupila IDS, Pametno, Glas, Daliju Orešković, možda i Juričana...
Ako dodamo u to i tzv. protestne stranke poput Žibog Zida i Pernarove stranke, to je već poprilična ''gužva'' i mislim da će i HDZ-u i SDP-u biti teško skupiti većinu u Saboru i da možda i neće imati izbora već napraviti veliku koaliciju.


Istina, no ekipa mora biti svjesna da su bez Škore - ništa i da im je bilo kakav dogovor u interesu.
Po anketama nitko od njih ne prelazi izborni prag, iako bi MOST zbog koncentracije glasača u izbornim jedinicama imao par mandata.
IDS kasnije sigurno neće koalirati s bilo kime tko nije SDP.
U svakom slučaju jako zanimljiva situacija i nemoguće sastavljanje vlade bez koaliranja dvije od vodeće 3 grupe.
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