As long as you're working or earning money in some form, your salary should adjust for inflation so an annual rate of inflation of 3% or whatnot shouldn't be a problem. Of course, you also don't want to hold all your money in a savings account or your checking account, that's why it's a good idea to invest in a portfolio of stocks and bonds. Historical returns of these assets have outpaced inflation considerably, even if it misses the mark on the occasional year or two. If people are unable to save any money throughout a lifetime of working, then I'm sorry, but it's not the fault of inflation. It's a matter of personal saving.
that is the exact horse shit I am talking about, take time and think about it, they keep doing the same shit over and over and all over again, prices goes up 10% and they raise the minimum wage 3% to give you the illusion that they are fixing problems.... You're just making an emotional argument. I'm not sure where you live, but most developed nations strive to keep the rate of inflation at an annual rate of 2 or 3% year over year, and that's generally how it goes. It doesn't go up 10% in one year, unless you live in Zimbabwe, in which case I apologize. The purchasing power of minimum wage does fluctuate up and down a bit year over year, but that's just because it isn't changed on any regular interval. The current purchasing power of $7.25 is approximately the same or perhaps even higher than it was 50 years ago. But nobody has ever been expected to live independently or raise a family on minimum wage in the first place, it's a worker's responsibility to develop their skills and the rest will follow. If you're 30 and still making minimum wage, something has gone wrong. You're going to have to elaborate on why inflation is so evil, more than just calling it "horse shit" and telling me to think about it. Maybe you're the one who needs to think a little harder. BTW, I don't make minimum wage, I am an IT engineer and I think my salary is fair, but do you think that inflation rate really reflect prices ? I don't know about US dollars but in 5 years time period €100 buy more less today than it did at the defined period. when you say " it's a worker's responsibility to develop their skills and the rest will follow" you mean now I have learn something else and work extra shift so I will have more money ? like slavery ? Edit: and yes my "adjusted" salary buy more less today than my old salary at the time, and yet you want to sell me the "developed nations" thing, well does EU count as a developed nation or not ? |
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As long as you're working or earning money in some form, your salary should adjust for inflation so an annual rate of inflation of 3% or whatnot shouldn't be a problem. Of course, you also don't want to hold all your money in a savings account or your checking account, that's why it's a good idea to invest in a portfolio of stocks and bonds. Historical returns of these assets have outpaced inflation considerably, even if it misses the mark on the occasional year or two. If people are unable to save any money throughout a lifetime of working, then I'm sorry, but it's not the fault of inflation. It's a matter of personal saving.
that is the exact horse shit I am talking about, take time and think about it, they keep doing the same shit over and over and all over again, prices goes up 10% and they raise the minimum wage 3% to give you the illusion that they are fixing problems.... |
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After reading your post i still can't understand what is the huge problem that most people don't understand. Inflation?
quick profit against the concept of bitcoin, and yes people do understand inflation but most of them doesn't take time and think about it, the story that I've wrote is to give a simple clear picture |
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interesting reading, I would like to share my imagination for these scenarios A- If I understood this right than I think this is happening already, we have so many worthless coins out there I mean really so many that we have a coin for every word in the dictionary (sarcasm) but this really worries me, I thought of having 2 mx 3 alts as a backup but this went out of control now I am starting to think what is the point of alts. B- I personally think that is the last thing to happen, even to think about it is hard for a simple reason, this could be a scenario only if a big revolution start to take down all currepted systems and replace them with a system who adopts the concept have. C- I think this is the most realistic scenario and the closest to what we are at now, and I personally believe on this one, in fact just few minutes ago I posted something about it, feel free to read it https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=358943.0;topicseenD- to be honest I really do not understand how can this happen exactly. F- I didnt like seing it on the list but for the sake of the argument it is a possible scenario, but there is really a small chance of this happening. |
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The best I can say here is quit smoking  working on it |
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to be honest after watching the poverty in Europe report, I feel more comfortable holding some bitcoins than having fiat, each time the price crash/correct than bounce back it makes me more confident about the whole concept of Bitcoin. I think most of investors look to the quick profit bitcoin can offers, which is really impressive but not all of you here see what is going on around the world, the infinity of money printing (inflation) is killing the economy. and believe me, smart politicians knows that there is an issue and they also know that there is no way to fix it with the existing system, and they also doesn't know what to do, so they keep doing the same thing to give the illusion of fixing it which is temporary and they keep repeating the same thing. I am sure most of you (older than 30) notice the loss in purchase power of your local currency, at least I do, I remember when I was 6-8 years old going to small store near my home buying milk and bread which cost at least 10 times less what it cost today, my father has been working all his life and could not save anything, my mother did work until her company did fire half of the workers than dramaticly shut down, she couldn't get another job so she stayed at home and took care of us, my father's duty was to offer a good education to us (a brother and 3 sisters) and he did all he could and succeed. if people take just a moment and think about how bad the economy is now, everyone would invest in bitcoin, not to talk about 20 years ago, just few years ago (2007-2008) I paid €2 for my cigarettes and less than €1 for gasoline , around €0.2 for bread (1 baguette) , today I pay €3.6 for cigarettes and €1.5 for gasoline and more than 0.3 for bread. the worst thing is my salary didn't almost change. I did mention my parents for a reason, today when I think about the whole system, I am really thankful that my father couldn't save money, because even with the interest the bank would give him, that money would be worth nothing because of the high level of inflation. though he could buy some gold or some real estate and this would solve the problem, but to do so you have to have a good amount of money that you can invest, which he didn't have at the time. but if bitcoin existed the whole situation would be different, now I feel that I am lucky and I think that all of you are lucky that you have been introduced to Bitcoin, and more people should know about it, this seems the only way out (solution). take few minutes and watch this video, I am sure it is almost the same where you live http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_NxUFIRm9k&feature=youtu.be |
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What are the chances of Chinese banks boycotting btcchina and other exchanges now? I can imagine the banking partners of btcchina getting antsy at this news.
I don't think so, they will be loosing allot of money and many customers start switching to other banks, the statement doesn't forbid such transactions, it was clear that individuals has to take risks when dealing with Bitcoin which is not new. we always took risks on our own bitcoin investment. till now Bitcoin was used as commodity more than a virtual currency and till now we didn't see any bank using Bitcoin for transactions or anything related, so I really do not understand where the panic come from. Bitcoin wasn't in the black nor the white area in china it was in the gray area, now this issue has been addressed and bitcoin is in the white area, people can buy it sell it trade it and use it as a commodity. I see this new really positive, though the ban for organizations from using bitcoin came a bit surprising, yet understandable, do not forgot China has a record in banning websites,firms and related technology businesses, so the statement is really positive, I was afraid that they will ban Bitcoin as the whole concept. give it some time and it will settle, people still don't understand what is going on, or rather shocked. |
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ok guys calm down the whole story is covered now at coindesk, there is no bad thing about the statement people are just panicking because of the media bad coverage which is nothing new read the full article here http://www.coindesk.com/price-crashes-china-outlaws-bitcoin-financial-institutions/the price of bitcoin fell over $300 this morning after China’s central bank warned financial institutions to steer clear of the digital currency. According to the bank, it doesn’t consider bitcoin a threat to China’s financial system, but it does believe the digital currency carries risks. “The concern is that it interferes with normal monetary policy operation,” Hao Hong, head of China research at Bocom International Holdings Co. in Hong Kong, told Bloomberg. “It represents an unofficial leakage to the current monetary system and trades globally. It is difficult to regulate and could be used for money laundering. I think the central bank is right to make this move,” he added. The central bank justified its position by stating that its goal is to prevent money laundering and other risks associated with bitcoin. Aside from the warning, the bank has stated that it will require all trading platforms that trade in virtual currencies to register with authorities. While the central bank is telling the nation’s banks not to deal with bitcoin, it said individuals are free to buy, sell and use bitcoin, if they wish, but they must take on the risk themselves. On a positive note, the bank didn’t ban trading platforms, such as BTC China, from dealing with bitcoin and other digital currencies, it merely said these companies have to register with authorities. Although the bank clearly stated that it will allow individuals to freely use bitcoin, the announcement has already caused a massive price drop on several exchanges, namely BTC China. In heavy volume trading earlier this morning bitcoin lost roughly ten percent of its value in a matter of hours. The opening price on BTC China was 7,005 CNY, but it quickly shed more than 10 percent, with the lowest bid coming in at 4521 CNY. At press time the latest price on CoinDesk’s Bitcoin Price Index was $889.01, with a daily change of -22.5 percent, or $257.23. Although the total value of bitcoins in circulation is dwarfed by national currencies, Chinese authorities seem to be taking the issue very seriously. Many Chinese citizens are investing their savings in bitcoin and some even argue they are basically hoarding the currency. This also represents a risk in terms of price fluctuations, as many speculators have no qualms about leaving the market at the first sign of trouble. The latest government notice effectively prohibits financial institutions and payment institutions to place bitcoin prices on products or services. They cannot be involved indirectly, either. They are barred from providing bitcoin related services, such as registration, trading or clearing. Moreover the decision to introduce compulsory registration could have a far reaching impact on China-based trading platforms. The notice mandates all trading platforms to register and it also brings up the potential use of China’s anti-money laundering legislative framework to identify all customers and suspicious transactions. The notice states that the measure will “effectively prevent money laundering associated with bitcoin.” The notice went on to state that bitcoin is not legal tender and that it is “specific form of virtual goods” without a clear legal status and monetary equivalent. It described bitcoin and other virtual currencies as a potential risk to the public interest and the Renminbi, due to excessive speculation. It also called on authorities to do more to educate the public about virtual currencies in order to provide them with a better understanding of such currencies and the risks associated with them. The central bank also stressed that it will continue to pay close attention to bitcoin price fluctuations in the future. Stay tuned for more updates to this story. |
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Please explain to me how I purchase a market order and specify the bitcoin amount if I don't know what the price is going to be.
lesson learned the hard way, never sell when a crash appear, the engine will lag so hard that you can do anything, I've learned my lesson the hard way in April and will never do it again, you try to make some profit and you will be left behind then you have to buy at a loss |
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Last time we crashed we visited 840, I am really curious where will settle at this crash. and when USA wakes up how will they behave sell or buy or hold ? interesting day !!!
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it will take us weeks to recover from this price, selling orders being add at really low prices, and I do expect the price to drop even lower, we might visit 500 today if the selling keeps this way.
I am not selling a satoshi I was in for the long term and I am still in, it just really hearts that I cant take advantage of this situation as I have no money on exchanges to spend
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People are still panicking over 57000 BTC coming to exchanges ? waiting for the 3-6 confirmations, this means the price could crash even more  These people could also very well calm down, read the news fully and formulate their reaction after seeing the initial sell off. Most of these people don't want to sell at the bottom either so there are no guarantees right now. How do you know that money is going to the exchange? The "total sent" is pretty low for the last days standards. Isn't there some tool trying to launder 96k BTC right now? Exactly. In fact the "total sent" has been insanely high for the last couple of weeks. ok I checked the last 10 blocks and I see a range from 300-5000 BTC depending on time between blocks, but 24000-36000 is happened only the last hour, yet it doesn't mean that people will sell on exchanges, it is only a speculation on my side |
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People are still panicking over 57000 BTC coming to exchanges ? waiting for the 3-6 confirmations, this means the price could crash even more |
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here is the full translated statement (google) which is 2 day old (from before yesterday), It is interesting how they brough up this only today and how they understood it (or changed its means)
http://www.pbc.gov.cn/publish/goutongjiaoliu/524/2013/20131205153156832222251/20131205153156832222251_.htmlTo protect the property rights and interests of the public, to protect the legal status of the yuan currency to prevent money laundering risks and maintain financial stability, the People's Bank of China, the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology, China Banking Regulatory Commission, China Securities Regulatory Commission, China Insurance Regulatory Commission have jointly issued the "People's Bank of China Ministry of Industry and Information Technology of China Banking Regulatory Commission, China Securities Regulatory Commission, China Insurance Regulatory Commission on the Prevention of Bitcoin risk notification" (Yin Fa [2013] No. 289, hereinafter referred to as "" Notice ""). "Notice" clearly the nature of Bitcoin that Bitcoin is not issued by the monetary authorities, such as not having sex with mandatory legal tender currency property, not the true meaning of money. From the nature point of view, Bitcoin is a specific virtual goods, does not have legal status and monetary equivalent, can not and should not be used as currency in circulation in the market. However, Bitcoin transaction as a commodity trading behavior on the Internet, ordinary people have the freedom to participate in the premise own risk. "Notice" requirement, at this stage, financial institutions and payment institutions are not allowed to Bitcoin price for the product or service, may not be sold or traded bitcoins as a central counterparty shall not be covered with bitcoin-related insurance business or insurance will be included bitcoin range not indirectly provide customers with bitcoins other services, including direct or: to provide customers with Bitcoin registration, trading, clearing and settlement services; accepts bitcoins or bitcoins as payment and settlement tools; carry with bitcoins RMB and foreign currency exchange services; conduct Bitcoin storage, hosting, mortgages and other services; issue with bitcoin-related financial products; would bitcoins as trusts, investment funds and other investment targets. "Notice" requirement, as the main trading platform Bitcoin Bitcoin Internet sites, should be based on the "PRC Telecommunications Regulations" and "Internet Information Services", shall be filed in the telecommunications regulatory agencies. Meanwhile, for the Bitcoin has a high risk of money laundering risk and used by criminals, the "notice" requirement in accordance with the requirements of the relevant authorities, "the PRC Anti-Money Laundering Law" and earnestly fulfill customer identification, suspicious transaction reports and other statutory anti-money laundering obligations, effectively preventing money laundering associated with Bitcoin risk. To avoid Bitcoin and other virtual goods by a "virtual currency" in the name of excessive speculation, harm the public interest and the Renminbi, the lawful currency status, "notice" requirement of financial institutions, payment institutions in their daily work should be the proper use of money concept, focused on strengthening the Education of the public currency of knowledge, the correct understanding of the currency, a correct view of virtual goods and currencies, rational investment, the reasonable control of investment risk and safeguard their property and other concepts included in the content of financial literacy activities, and guide the public to establish a correct concept of money and investment philosophy. In the future, the People's Bank will be based on their responsibilities and continue to pay close attention to the movements of Bitcoin and associated risks. (End) Accessories: People's Bank of China Ministry of Information Industry and the China Banking Regulatory Commission China Securities Regulatory Commission, China Insurance Regulatory Commission Notice on guard against the risk of bitcoin Recently, a calculated through a specific computer program called "Bitcoin" (Bitcoin) caused widespread concern in the international community, the country also has a number of agencies and individuals with the opportunity to hype Bitcoin Bitcoin and related products. To protect the property rights and interests of the public, to protect the legal status of the yuan currency to prevent money laundering risks and maintain financial stability, according to "People's Republic of China People's Bank Law", "PRC Anti-Money Laundering Law," "Law on Commercial Banks "" relevant laws and regulations of the PRC Telecommunications Regulations "and other relevant matters are hereby notified as follows: A correct understanding of the properties of bitcoin Bitcoin has no central issuer, limited amount, using four main features without geographical restrictions and anonymity. While Bitcoin is called "money", but because it is not issued by the monetary authorities, such as not having sex with mandatory legal tender currency property, not the true meaning of money. From the nature point of view, should be a particular Bitcoin virtual goods, does not have legal status and monetary equivalent, can not and should not be used as currency in circulation in the market. Second, financial institutions and payment institutions may not conduct business associated with bitcoins At this stage, the financial institutions and payment institutions are not allowed to Bitcoin price for the product or service, may not be sold or traded as a central counterparty bitcoin not associated with underwriting insurance business or Bitcoin Bitcoin into the insurance coverage shall not directly or indirectly, to provide customers with bitcoins other related services, including: providing customers with Bitcoin registration, trading, clearing and settlement services; accepts bitcoins or bitcoins as payment and settlement tools; conduct Bitcoin exchange with RMB and foreign currencies services; conduct Bitcoin storage, hosting, mortgage and other services; issue with bitcoin related financial products; would bitcoins as trusts, investment funds and other investment targets and so on. Third, strengthen the management of Internet sites bitcoin The "PRC Telecommunications Regulations" and "Internet Information Services", provides Bitcoin registration, transaction services such as Internet sites should be filed in the telecommunications regulatory agencies. Telecommunications regulatory agencies to identify and punish according to the views of relevant administrative departments, shall be closed down on illegal Internet sites bitcoin. Fourth, the prevention of money laundering risks that may arise bitcoin People's Bank of China should pay close attention to the various branches of Bitcoin and other similar anonymous, cross-border flow of convenient features such as virtual goods movements and posture, carefully judged the risk of money laundering, research to develop targeted preventive measures. Agencies should be set up branches and offer Bitcoin registration, trade and other services in the area of anti-money laundering regulation into law, and urge them to strengthen anti-money laundering monitoring. Registration provides Bitcoin transaction services such as Internet sites should earnestly fulfill anti-money laundering obligations, the user identity identification, registration requires users to use their real names, registered name, identity card number and other information. All financial institutions, payment institutions and to provide bitcoin registration transaction services such as Internet sites, such as suspicious transactions with Bitcoin and other virtual goods related, shall immediately report to the China Anti-Money Laundering Monitoring and Analysis Center, and with the People's Bank of China's anti- money laundering investigations; found using bitcoins for fraud, gambling, money laundering and other criminal activities clues, should be promptly reported to the police. Fifth, strengthen the education and knowledge of the investment risk of the public money tips Departments and financial institutions, payment institutions in their daily work should be the proper use of money concept, focused on strengthening the education of the public currency of knowledge, the correct understanding of the currency, a correct view of virtual goods and currencies, rational investment, reasonable control investment risk, maintenance own property and other concepts included in the content of financial literacy activities, and guide the public to establish a correct concept of money and investment philosophy. The financial regulatory agencies can develop relevant implementation rules in accordance with this notice. Please People's Bank of China Shanghai headquarters, branches, business management department, the provincial capital (capital) city center branch of this notice will be forwarded to each of the local financial institutions and payment institutions within the jurisdiction. The new case was found during the execution of this notice, the new problem, promptly report to the People's Bank of China. Contact: Zhang obsessed, Tel 010 -66194489 People's Bank of China Ministry of Industry and Information Technology CBRC SFC CIRC December 3, 2013
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hahahah Price is bouncing back... who did panic and lose some money today ? just be honest you people never learn anything
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I cant wait to see the reaction of people who sold now when the price recover
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we are dipping so hard, I wont take any action, to risky to do anything now
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what the F is happening ?
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